NAM: Development

[dedgren]

I still have this concept in my mind of the game implementing tunnels as a sort of invisible subway for roads, highways and rail.


David

[Lollo]

Whoa.... It's nice to see that I've begun an interesting discussion.... I hope to see the results of your works as soon as possible.... again thank you for wht you do for the game and the community.....

[Chrisim]

When preparing myself for the work on the recently published Marrast Underpasses Updated SFBT BSC I spent some time to investigate underpasses in SC4. Underpasses are mainly used for flat area, otherwise you would use tunnels or overpasses (bridges).

In summary, there exist two approaches:
1) pathed connections (the proposed NAM puzzle pieces or TE-Lots - like the updated Marrast underpasses and Jeronij's street underpass); and
2) ramps connected by the underground=subway system (Buddybud underpasses and the Big Dig)

The second system comes with several disadvantages:
a) They convert cars to underground, but not busses, vans and pedestrians
b) They mix normal underground with converted cars
c) Emergency vehicles (fire fighters) cannot pass
d) UDI does not work
e) Rich Sims tend to avoid public transport (the underground) - will influence the game somehow
f) Underground is much faster than road - will influence the game somehow

Due to these disadvantages, I decided myself for approach 1) last autumn and spent some time to work on the Marrast underpasses, together with Andreas and the SFBT, based on previous work by the BSC.

Of course, there are several disadvantages to approach 1 when using pathed TE-Lots:
a) TE-Lots can cause problems in the game simulations as discussed by Mott in this forum.
b) Rigidity. Each pathed TE-Lot is fixed for one certain situation, e.g., straight road under straight dual rail. The set Marrast Underpasses Updated SFBT BSC contains 13 lots (plus a MML), just for the most common underpasses.
c) The traffic simulation for cars (blue lines), calculated when playing the game, shows strange behavior in few cases. Example: Car traffic (blue lines) can jump from the road (underground) to the highway. The animations are not affected - no animated car will jump (the depth is 8 meters in the Marrast path files).
I hope / believe that pathed NAM underpass puzzle pieces can overcome these disadvantages.

It is, of course, possible to extended the Marrast underpasses for tram-in-avenues (tram=GLR) and to have four path types on one tile (car, pedestrian, tram, train):

This is an unpublished functional TE-Lot. It also works for tram-in-avenue under avenue and ground highway and for street or avenue under tram-in-avenue. NAM team members who have access to the SFBT test center can download it from my subdirectory and test it, the one under the highway has a known bug that I will fix).

Being a fan of the recently published Gare du Nord of Xannepan that has twelve tracks, I extended a functional Marrast rail underpass to 8 and 12 tracks widths and posted a picture on the German SimForum

That was the moment when Nardo69 (and now Lollo) suggested more general road underpasses with NAM puzzle pieces:
a Marrast ramp to go underground and NAM puzzle pieces of street/road/avenue/1way/tram-avenue below all networks (and open space).
We may want to build an underpass under the rail tracks behind the station with one ramp parallel to the rail tracks and the other ramp perpendicular - and a non-straight underground road connection.

As Warrior pointed out, this would be quite similar to the road overpasses already existing in the NAM, therefore, I guess it should be possible to make it. A pathed connection. No TE-Lot and no rigidity anymore.

Simply connecting two ramps is, of course, the most appealing solution for users. jplumbley, your proposed system of enabled Road Traffic to be added to the subway system, if it works, sounds perfect. However, this is only true if it would allow emergency vehicles and UDI to pass. If not, the puzzle pieces would still be the preferable solution, at least for me. If the fire fighters cannot pass, it's no solution for me ...

Sorry for the length of the posting, but it's a summary.

Please, this is a technical discussion on NAM development. If you wish to comment on the Marrast underpasses, please do so in this thread

[TopCliff]

I love those underpasses!!! So much more realistic than the in-game tunnels. I can't wait for this to be released. Later.

[SC4BOY]

I LOVE!! Crissim's approach!! Go guys.. more super work.

[Chrisim]

Thank you, but Please, this is a technical discussion on NAM development. If you wish to comment on the Marrast underpasses, please do so in this thread

[jplumbley]

Simply connecting two ramps is, of course, the most appealing solution for users. jplumbley, your proposed system of enabled Road Traffic to be added to the subway system, if it works, sounds perfect. However, this is only true if it would allow emergency vehicles and UDI to pass. If not, the puzzle pieces would still be the preferable solution, at least for me. If the fire fighters cannot pass, it's no solution for me ...

To be totally honest, UDI is the last thing I am worried about.  I care more about the accuracy of the functionality before the UDI.  If it doesnt work properly, we will cause Simulator problems and if we cause Simulator problems thats the worst thing possible.

[Mulefisk]

Simply connecting two ramps is, of course, the most appealing solution for users. jplumbley, your proposed system of enabled Road Traffic to be added to the subway system, if it works, sounds perfect. However, this is only true if it would allow emergency vehicles and UDI to pass. If not, the puzzle pieces would still be the preferable solution, at least for me. If the fire fighters cannot pass, it's no solution for me ...

Personally, I think that 2 ramps that could be connected by subway would make the underpasses vastly more functional and versatile than any puzzle piece system would allow. You could just base it off the same technology that blahdy uses in his Big Dig set.

[Jonathan]

The technique that me and JPlumbley are experimenting on makes it so that cars travel through the BBD lots enter the Subway as cars travel along the subway as cars and exit as cars.

[Chrisim]

I wish to encourage you to proceed with your experiments of car traffic to be added to the subway system. It sounds very appealing because of its simplicity for players. Please, can you clarify whether emergency vehicles will pass?

[Jonathan]

Yes emergency vehicules, busses and frieght trucks will pass,
But this is still highly experimently and does not function 100% correctly as JPlumbley said.

[Pat]

Hmm this is intresting discussion here for sure and I to would love to see how emergency vehical's can use this... I love to UDI for some strange reason lol... 

[Andreas]

Yet another random pic...



Unfortunately, I can't center frogface's catenaries properly, since they are rendered off-centered (and the LE won't allow props that overlap the lot more than 50%). But maybe someone can do something about that...

[BigSlark]

Amazing T21 work, Andreas! 

Keep it up and I look forward to seeing more!

Cheers,
Kevin

[TopCliff]

Yet another random pic...



Unfortunately, I can't center frogface's catenaries properly, since they are rendered off-centered (and the LE won't allow props that overlap the lot more than 50%). But maybe someone can do something about that...

You . . . are . . . a . . . GOD!!! All your work is awesome. Pretty soon, you'll create an add-on that just lets us think of the perfect city and it appears on the screen. I can only wait for your next great leap forward.

[Andreas]

Hehe, thanks guys! And woohoo, another breakthrough - I was able to edit frogface's catenary prop manually, so I was able to place it properly:

[TopCliff]

I . . . I click on the thread, and I start hearing chant, and then . . . then a huge shaft of light that appears to grace your total awesomeness. I have but one thing to add . . .

HALLELUJAH!!!
Oh, and you rock. 

[figui]

this is great! i love how it looks.
a pity the catenaires can't be made

mauricio.

[Shadow Assassin]

I kind of like the SFBT catenaries better. 

But that's just me.

[figui]

i meant the cables can't be made

mauricio.