The future of the community.

[Haljackey]

So many great points here, I'll try to keep mine simple:

To me there's no doubt that SC4 is in a decline on the net, but that's what happens when a game approaches 9 years of age. No amount of updates or custom content can save old age, it just happens.

What keps SC4 going and going is player content, of which new creations never cease to stop flowing, not to mention the lack of a decent sequel. In a world with such a competitive market for video games, most players will have short lived experiences with games until they move on to the latest craze. Quality games like SC4 come few and far between.

I don't believe that SC4's time is up, but the clock is almost certainly ticking now. Agree with me or not, there is less and less interest in the game as time goes on, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying the game.

Anyways just my thoughts.
-Ryan (Haljackey)

~ Hal was this a slip here never seen you sign your real name ever wow! Point taken though for sure SC4 is an old game but we still love it!!! ~ Patrick Board Mod

[j-dub]

I could drop dead at any moment, or I might not finish it before RL kicks in and (permanently) ends my ability to work on the project.

I hope when the unexpected happens no one feels guilt for it. Sadly, life or death happens, but it goes for anyone, anywhere, anytime. I have had unexpected fallouts from going online in general, dare I technical difficulties, but real life in general is just a burden. I remember having a very brief, friendly outside forum chat with JP post the 2nd release of NWM, there seemed to be relief a bunch of that stuff was now a reality.

Maybe there is decline, but that decline does not mean everyone gets to go on to other gaming, for some their interest changes, but for others, they are family folk, others have to now pay for their own living expense, and in this ecconomy who can blame them for going off the map? But right here, this is not SC4, this is a community. Personally, the clock in this here community seems to be better then [__]space.

[whatevermind]

@dedgren: Thank you!  That means a lot 

@catty and others:
I agree there is no easy way around the question of when and how extensively to update.  As some of you pointed out, larger projects take a lot of work, which takes a lot of time, which I think (hope) everyone understands and appreciates.  Not to mention the internal issues of deciding who posts, what to post, when to post, how to showcase, and in the case of several teams and projects with multiple homes, where to post.  It's all quite the puzzle.  I don't have any answer to it, but to sit back in awe of the amazing work being done.

[Jmouse]

I have noticed that the commenting has indeed slowed down, and in general, I think there's an increased prevalence toward lurking community-wide.  I'm not entirely sure why that is.  Some of the lurkers are once-active folks who have faded into the background due to RL, but a lot of newer members seem to be taking that tack as well.

I had to smile when I read Alex's observations on lurking. I, too, have started lurking more lately, but the reason is easy to explain. I have several personal (NUTs) projects underway. Then as an administrator, moderator, committee member and 3RR team member, I spend several hours a day doing "site work." I never worked this hard for money and I love every minute of it. Still, all of these things take time. Anyone who knows me well knows, "Great update. Can't wait to see more," just isn't my posting style. Instead, I prefer to make thoughtful posts I hope will help our members. So, lacking the time to do so, I tend to lurk more than I used to.

RL is not at the root of the problem. There just aren't enough hours in the day to do everything I would like to do. So in my case, lurking is not a sign of inactivity. Indeed, it's a sign that I'm more active in the community than ever before.

It's human nature to look at things from our own point of view. Unfortunately, however, sometimes it leads us to draw incorrect conclusions. Posts in this thread by Cathy (catty) and joelyboy911 indicate there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work going on, just as there is in my case.

The "face" of our community may be changing, but it isn't a sign of impending doom. I see it as a positive sign that we won't be scratching SC4D or SC4 off our list any time soon.

[dedgren]

that's what happens when a game approaches 9 years of age

SC4's ninth birthday, btw, is on January 14th.

Still thinking (as I work on SC4 stuff- that ought to say something by itself).


David

[Ryan B.]

I know that personally, I've dealt with a gamut of issues over the past 24 months (from having a computer that wouldn't run SC4 to work), but I just haven't had a lot of time to play the game or work on stuff.  I think my particular situation (RL in general) applies to a great deal of us.

I'm very proud to be a part of this community.  I've made some great friends here, and I definitely look forward to contributing again (with the obvious caveat of 'when I can')!

[j-dub]

At least I'm not the only one whose had been down the road with PC's acting like that, but this:

In a world with such a competitive market for video games, most players will have short lived experiences with games until they move on to the latest craze.

There is something symbolic to that statement which reminds me of something, like this:


Carefully see the parallel element to SC4 here?

[vortext]

Much have been said already and I'm relative new to the community so I can't really tell if it's dwindling or not. I do know it's been of great help and inspiration to me since rediscovering simcity almost a year and a half ago. Thanks to a friend of mine whom mentioned there were sites out there . . sites with new buildings, new transit stuff, new terrain mods. . When I visited sc4d and simtrop for the first time my jaw literally dropped and it's safe to say I've been hooked ever since.
The fun really begun however when I started customizing. Lotting at first, just to remove some trees. Next step was creating my own growables and nowadays I'm really into street modding, like Kergelen mentioned already.  Point is, it's all thanks to the tools and knowledge made available here at sc4d.

Personally I never really cared much for video games and still don't. I consider simcity a simulator, which always has been a niche genre. There's nothing to strive for in these types of games (you can't 'win' anything) except what a player sets out to do, which is bounded only by his or her imagination. Given that and the fact it's relative old, it's understandable people will give up on simcity eventually and move on. However, I don't see sc4d going down the drain anytime soon.

That said, remains the lurking issue. Much like Jmouse I'm not quick to post a 'looks great, keep it up' kinda reply. Maybe I should more often since last time I updated my thread there hasn't been a single reply yet, which is somewhat disappointing. I can imagine the same is true for people who just spent an evening preparing an update for their MD. However for non English speakers like me, a decent reply takes times. Time that could otherwise be spend on simcity. 

[RickD]

Most has been said already so I want to focus my comment on a new aspect.

I think that the structure of the SC4D forum makes it not easy to discover new and interesting topics and answer to them. In my opinion there are way too many too deeply nested subforums and subforums of subforums. I have my regular routine of sections I visit. But most of the time I do not bother looking into other sections because everything is so widespread and complicated to find. I am sure there are sections in the Forum I have never seen.
And when I sometimes take the time to click through all the sections I find several threads that are really interesting but I do not comment any more because they were written months ago.

My personal opinion is that, especially regarding the dropping number of posts, it would be better to concentrate everything a bit more so that "special interest" threads that are now buried deep in the forums, get more attention. This would also encourage more people to actually open new topics. At the moment, why should I bother opening a topic in a remote section that hardly anyone visits. Take the "Planning and Urban Design" section as an example. Why is there almost no activity? In an Urban Simulation Forum?

Sorry for the wall of text and please take this as constructive criticism and not negative bashing.

[vortext]

My personal opinion is that, especially regarding the dropping number of posts, it would be better to concentrate everything a bit more so that "special interest" threads that are now buried deep in the forums, get more attention.

I concur, there're way too many nested threads. Which on the one hand makes it fun to explore the fora. But when I come across something interesting, I bookmark immediatly because it's almost impossible to find it again later on! So some rearranging might be in order. For example, it's somewhat puzzling the pic competition isn't featured on the front page, just like the MD section should be. Then again, a complete overhaul of the site might be a daunting task, not to mention there will always be folks complaining they liked the previous edition better 

[Ol.S / Benoit]

Guess everyone agreed saying that the clock is ticking for this "game", that's what I saw in most of yours comments.
Also, we do have a strong community, and that's not something you see everywhere. Most of us here are passionate and have nothing to win exept sharing ideas, creativy, projects... which is actually huge...

I'm quite new here, I discovered this website not even a year ago, but that's the first thing I saw, the opportunity to improve thanks to the community.

Even if their is less and less activity, their is nothing to be mad at, this is just how it works... This is unbelievable that their is still such a community after nine years...
I guess that this could be explained by the healthy environment. Indeed, no one is fighting to "win", you have to share something for that, and then you take the benefits. (Exept in the picture competition ! No MERCY ! )

Does anyone knows how many times the word "Thanks" have been said here ? That means a lot... (What a weird community !)

You know what ?

Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, stateless and revolutionary socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. In Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals.
Communism comes from the Latin word communis, which means "shared" or "belong to all".

This is just like modern communism ^^ Marx should have been proud of us... lol !


Thanks from France !
Benoit.

[rooker1]

I have a few quick points....

Kergelen, thank you for starting a very interesting and well thought out concern of our game and community.  You may have noticed I gave you a well deserved karma point.
Kergelen again, becareful when you do stats from "most online".  I remember a year or so ago we had spambot problems and I believe that they are included in those stats, so they may not be entirely accurate.

I can only echo what most of you all have already said and I agree with most of it.  This game is old and it will die out entirely one day, but that day is not any time soon. (***I say that while standing up with confidence and look towards the skies***)  We still have several healthy years ahead, especially if the ones that are making these remarkable break throughs lately continue to do so.....such as MMPs, the RHW, the rest of the NAM team and we still get high quality BATs at least every week from someone, some where across the community.

RickD, vortex and this goes out to anyone else as well, if you have any ideas or see something that could be organized better here at SC4D do not hesitate to PM myself or any other Staff member.  Just go have a look at the SC4D Picture Competition and where it is now.   

Robin 

[gn_leugim]

You know what ?

Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, stateless and revolutionary socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. In Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals.
Communism comes from the Latin word communis, which means "shared" or "belong to all".

This is just like modern communism ^^ Marx should have been proud of us... lol !


Thanks from France !
Benoit.

Hmmm now that is a interesting point of view ^^ somehow I have to agree

[j-dub]

Hmm they both begin with M, and have some similarities. carl MArXISt I feel this community is a prime example we as an international cross-country line society can do without the political and ecconomic troubles, considering the work involved. RL aggrivates me because the requirment for money is the cause of the problem. No ever need for money, then no ecconomical problems. No need to work for the money, more time for SC4!

[cmdp123789]

Well... I think that somehow, the community reflects the passion of its members. Somehow, when you look at it, its a one single site that absorbs every kind of player into it. Unfortuntely at the same time, it also shows the problems that the actual game is starting to have. Think about it... every time something REALLY COOL like the RHW or the new NWM comes up... there are a lot of comments and pics and stuff. Why is that? well i believe that happens because of the excitement that it generates... but the real reason why is because of the game limitation's itself. No matter what people create for the game, there will always be a SC4 limitation... that somehow is going to reflect it on the community, that's why its gettin harder and harder to create new topics... hence the lacking of posting.

I believe that lately the lurking means the affection that people still have for the community, but at the same time it shows the lack of the excitment for the game, an until something extremly BIG or NEW or whatever comes up, there wont be an impact to make people change the way they are now...

Just my thoughts... no comments are intended to any user specifically... and it is not meant to offend anyone 

[Kergelen]

Kergelen, thank you for starting a very interesting and well thought out concern of our game and community.  You may have noticed I gave you a well deserved karma point.
Kergelen again, becareful when you do stats from "most online".  I remember a year or so ago we had spambot problems and I believe that they are included in those stats, so they may not be entirely accurate.

Yes, I have noticed the Karma point from you and from Dedgren and I fell very honoured. It was a nice surprise on saturday morning and, as I said in my previous post, many thanks.  

About the stats, thanks for the information, I didn't know about. Although statistics are not entirely accurate, we can see where things are going. Anyway, the stats are only a way to confirm our perceptions, which are always more important than numbers. .

Good new location of the competition. It is much more accessible

[catty]

...RickD, vortex and this goes out to anyone else as well, if you have any ideas or see something that could be organized better here at SC4D do not hesitate to PM myself or any other Staff member.  Just go have a look at the SC4D Picture Competition and where it is now.   

Not sure if this will help or not, but these are the current boards on the site, the ones starting as "SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION" are the main site groups

Code Select Expand

3RR ATLAS
3RR BACKSTORY
3RR COLLABORATION SHOWCASE
3RR GAZETTEER
3RR GRAPHICS EXCHANGE
3RR HONORS LIST
3RR QUICK FINDER
3RR TABLE OF CONTENTS
AC CREATIONS
AC FUNCTIONAL AIRPORTS
AC TEAM PLACE
ANNIVERSARIES AND OTHER DATES OF NOTE
APOIO PORTUGUÊS E AJUDA
B.A.T. ANIMATING HELP REQUESTS
B.A.T. HELP
B.A.T. LIGHTING HELP REQUESTS
B.A.T. LODDING HELP REQUESTS
B.A.T. MODELLING HELP REQUESTS
B.A.T. PROJECTS
B.A.T. RENDERING HELP REQUESTS
B.A.T. TEXTURING HELP REQUESTS
BEST SC4 PICTURES CONTEST
BEST SELLERS
BIRTHDAYS
BNL CREATIONS
BNL PLACE
BSC CLEANITOL
BSC CREATIONS
BSC HELP
BSC LEX DOWNLOADER
BSC NHP DATPACKER
BSC PLACE
BSC PLAYS THE GAME
BUDDYBUDS EXPANSIVE ATTEMPTS AT ANYTHING & EVERYTHING
CAFE POLAND
CAM - COLOSSUS ADDON MOD
CHALLENGES
CITYMANIA - OPEN SOURCE SIM CITY
CLASSICS
CLOSED REQUESTS
COMPLETED CONTEST ARCHIVES
CUSTOM CONTENT CREATION TOOLS
DEUTSCHES SUPPORTFORUM
EBLT CREATIONS
EBLT PLACE
ESPACE FRANCOPHONE
FOR THE LOVE OF MUSIC
FORUM GAMES
GENERAL DISCUSSION TOPICS
GENERAL MD INFO AND STATISTICS
GENERAL MD INFORMATION AND ANNOUNCEMENTS
GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES
GENERAL TEAMS PLACE INFORMATION AND ANNOUNCEMENTS
GRV II - BORDERTOWN
HKT CREATIONS
HKT PLACE
HOW TO BUILD A... HELP REQUESTS
ILIVES READER
INACTIVE BEST SELLERS
INACTIVE CLASSICS
INACTIVE RECENTLY PUBLISHED
INFORMATION AND INSTRUCTIONS
INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT
JAPAN
LEX DVD DISKS
LEX LOGIN AND ACCESS SUPPORT
LOT EDITOR HELP
LOT EDITOR PROJECTS
LOT MAKING HELP REQUESTS
LOT TWEAKING HELP REQUESTS
MACINTOSH HELP REQUESTS
MATTERS OF GENERAL INTEREST
MAYORS' DIARIES
MD STATISTICS
MEMORIES FROZEN IN TIME
MOD PROJECTS
MODDING GAME SIMULATORS HELP REQUESTS
MODDING GAME TEXTURES HELP REQUESTS
MODDING GENERAL HELP REQUESTS
MODDING HELP
MODDING PLOPABLE STUFF HELP REQUESTS
MODDING TOOLS
MODDING TRANSIT NETWORKS HELP REQUESTS
NAM CREATIONS
NAM HOW-TOS AND TUTORIALS
NAM INACTIVE THREADS
NAM PLACE
NDEX CREATIONS
NDEX PLACE
NEDERLANDS- & AFRIKAANSTALIG SUPPORT FORUM
NEW BAT REQUESTS
NEW CREATIONS REQUESTS
NEW MAPS REQUESTS
NEW MODS REQUESTS
NEW TEXTURES REQUESTS
NEW TOOLS REQUESTS
NEW TRANSIT ITEMS REQUEST
NHP CREATIONS
NHP PLACE
NULL45'S TOOLS
NUTS CREATIONS
NUTS PLACE
OF SPECIAL INTEREST THIS MONTH
OPEN REQUESTS
OTHER GAMES
OTHER PROJECTS
OTHER TOOLS
PC/COMPUTER HARDWARE AND OPERATING SYSTEM ISSUES AND QUESTIONS
PERFORMANCE TOOLS
PIM-X'D
PLANNING AND URBAN DESIGN
PLAYERS
PLAYING THE GAME HELP
PROJECTS
RECENTLY PUBLISHED
RECIPES FROM YOUR KITCHEN
RL PICS OF GENERAL INTEREST
RTMT CREATIONS
RTMT PLACE
SC4 ANIMATOR
SC4 COMMUNITY-RELATED
SC4 LANDSCAPE DESIGNERS STUDIO
SC4 TERRAFORMER
SC4 TOOL
SC4D BRIDGE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT
SC4D GOINGS-ON
SC4D MAYORS' DIARY HALL OF FAME
SC4D NEIGHBORHOOD PLACES
SC4D OFF TOPIC SECTION - POSTS IN THIS SECTION DO NOT INCREASE THE POST COUNTER.
SC4D THEMATIC COMPETITION
SC4DEVOTION PICTURE COMPETITION HALL OF FAME
SC4DEVOTION REQUESTS AND ISSUES
SC4LOTINFOSGENERATOR
SC4MAPPER
SC4PIM
SCAG CREATIONS
SCAG PLACE
SECTION RULES
SFBT CREATIONS
SFBT PLACE
SHOW US YOUR...
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION BSC LEX
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION CERTIFIED TEAMS PLACE
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION CUSTOM CONTENT - DISCUSSION AND REQUESTS
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION CUSTOM CONTENT SHOWCASE
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION HELP
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION OTHER TEAMS PLACE
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION PICTURES AND PROJECTS SHOWCASE
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION TEAMS PLACE
SIM CITY 4 DEVOTION TOOLS
SIM CITY 4 JAPANESE DEVOTION
SIMCITY AIRPORT GROUP
SIMULATOR L
SITE RULES
SKANDINAVISK SUPPORTFORUM
SO FAR
SO NEAR -- ???????????
SOPORTE EN CASTELLANO
STARTUP MANAGER
TD CREATIONS
TD PLACE
TECHNICAL HELP REQUESTS
TERRAFORMING HELP REQUESTS
THE "X" TOOL OR PIM-X
THE 3RR EXCHANGE (3RREX)
THE ARTIST'S PLACE
THE DUNYA PROJECT
THE GRAPHICS POINT
THE PAVLOVA SPORTS BAR
THE RURAL RENEWAL PROJECT
THE SC4DEVOTION PODCAST
THE THEMATIC ARENA
THE TRIUMPHAL WAY
THEMATIC COMP ARCHIVES
THEMATIC COMP PLAYERS ENTRIES
THREE RIVERS REGION
THREE RIVERS REGION - ST
TRANSIT NETWORKS HELP REQUESTS
TRANSLATION REQUESTS
TSC CREATIONS
TSC ORANGE TROPHY
TSC PLACE
VIP TEAM'S NEST
VIP TEAM CREATIONS
WELCOME GUEST! CANNOT SEE IT ALL?
WHERE CAN I FIND THIS ....?¿


[vortext]

That's quite a list. On a quick glance I say all BAT threads could be grouped together, as well as the LOT editor ones. Also, last week I was searching for something (already forgot what exactly   ) and it led me to the tutorial sections. I noticed a lot of those are 1) outdated because of new tools and 2) mostly incomplete on the specific subject. I know from experience it's quite a hassle to pull all the bits and pieces up from the depths. It may be worth while to rewrite some of them and placing them somewhere more accesible, since they're apparenlty not a main site group.

[catty]

...Take the "Planning and Urban Design" section as an example. Why is there almost no activity? In an Urban Simulation Forum?

...On a quick glance I say all BAT threads could be grouped together, as well as the LOT editor ones. Also, last week I was searching for something (already forgot what exactly   ) and it led me to the tutorial sections....

Had a quick go at doing a draft site plan (this is only an example to get people thinking about where they would like to see the various boards and topics located)

Code Select Expand


SC4 DEVOTION HOME
- COMMUNITY (anniversaries, birthdays, etc)
- FORUMS (welcome guest, site rules, etc)
- LEX & DVDs (login and access support)
- TUTORIALS & WIKI

SC4 DEVOTION CUSTOM CONTENT (BAT, LOT & MOD)
- DISCUSSION
- HELP (where can i find this ....?)
- REQUESTS
- PROJECTS
- SHOWCASE (show us your ...)

SC4 DEVOTION INTERNATIONAL
- JAPAN
- APOIO PORTUGUÊS E AJUDA
- CAFE POLAND
- DEUTSCHES SUPPORTFORUM
- ESPACE FRANCOPHONE
- NEDERLANDS- & AFRIKAANSTALIG SUPPORT FORUM
- SKANDINAVISK SUPPORTFORUM
- SOPORTE EN CASTELLANO
- TRANSLATION REQUESTS

SC4 DEVOTION MAYOR's DIARIES
- MD INFORMATION AND STATISTICS
- SC4D MAYOR's DIARY HALL OF FAME
- OF SPECIAL INTEREST THIS MONTH
- CLASSICS
- BEST SELLERS
- RECENTLY PUBLISHED

SC4 DEVOTION SHOWCASE
- PICTURES (best sc4 pictures contest, etc)
- PROJECTS (GRV II, etc)
- THREE RIVERS REGION
- TOOLS (cam, cleanitol, datpacker, downloader, ilives, null45, sc4pim, sc4tool, etc)

SC4 DEVOTION TEAMS
- CERTIFIED (ac, bsc, hkt, nam, nhp, nuts, rtmt, sfbt)
- OTHERS (bnl, eblt, ndex, scag, td, tsc, vip)

SC4 DEVOTION TECHNICAL HELP
- SC4 HELP REQUESTS
- LINUX HELP REQUESTS
- MACINTOSH HELP REQUESTS
- WINDOWS HELP REQUESTS
- PC/COMPUTER HARDWARE AND OPERATING SYSTEM ISSUES AND QUESTIONS

SC4 DEVOTION URBAN DESIGN & PLANNING
- SOFTWARE
- SHOWCASE (real life city & rural creation - open to all city simulation software)
- THEORY

SC4 DEVOTION OFF-TOPIC
- FORUM GAMES
- OTHER GAMES
- MATTERS OF GENERAL INTEREST
- RL PIC'S  OF GENERAL INTEREST



EDIT: Added a few more categories under "Technical Help" cos I missed them last night

[mike3775]

Catty you hit on the one thing I was afraid to post about earlier with a forum revamp, which was putting all the teams in their own section as subforums.  That there IMO would make the board alot more appealing because you owuld not have to scroll down past every team section to get to the MD area or picture area, which are really the two area's I like to browse through