• Welcome to SC4 Devotion Forum Archives.

Tales at TeaTime

Started by TheTeaCat, May 22, 2007, 04:32:09 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jmouse

Beautiful map, and love those mods. Been looking forward to the new start for a while now, and I can see it's been well worth the wait. :thumbsup:

So on with the show...
Joan

dedgren

Quote[emits squeal]

???

Bruce, you, my friend, been playing with your cats a bit too long.

* * *

Derry, that's really fine looking terrain.  I'm no lurker (although I don't post here near often enough), but I'll lift a steaming mug of Boston's Moroccan Mint [linkie] in your honor.

Can't wait for more.


David
D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]


I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren

catty

That map is looking good, looking forward to seeing what you do next  :)
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

bat

Nice new pictures of that region! Looking forward to more... ;)

Ennedi

Hello Derry,

The terrain looks very good! (the blue version is v ery nice too, although it could be a bit more contrast between land and water  :D)

Now about your bonus (sandy sea bottom): it looks very nice, but... it shouldn't happen! $%Grinno$%

How do work terrain textures?

- all terrain textures except rock, beach and sea bottom are assigned to specific places of the terrain (various altitudes, slopes, valleys, hilltops...) in the large table located in the Terrain.ini file. This file is located in the simcity1.dat - one of 5 main game data files.

- Everything what you put into your Plugins folder will be read by the game after all data collected in simcity1.dat - simcity5.dat files. So, if you will make your own Terrain.ini file and assign different textures to your terrain, the game will use your file instead of the Maxis one. Of course if you will use non-Maxis textures in your mod, you will have to put these textures into Plugins too - otherwise you will experience a CTD  ;D

- A few other textures are specific: rock (texture 44 or correctly five textures from 0x00000044 to 0x00000444 - the third digit from the end describes the zoom level from 0 to 4 ie. from zoom 1 to zoom 5), beach (texture 39) and the sea bottom (deep sea - texture 13, shallow water - texture 14). they are not included in the Terrain.ini but have specific places hardcoded in the exe. It enables making rock and beach mods separately from the terrain mod. (Oops... I forgot water texture - 0918730 to 0918734).

- PEG's terrain mod doesn't include textures 39, 13 and 14. So it can't affect the beach mod (older beach mods have only texture 39, Cycledogg found how work textures 13 and 14 &apls and his beach mods include these textures too). PEG's terrain mod use only Maxis terrain textures, he has taken some of more "sandy" textures and gave them numbers of more "grassy" ones, so the whole terrain is less green - btw very good idea and useful for many people!

- The Olympic beach mod also doesn't affect the terrain mod in any way.
The conclusion - as above: it shouldn't happen! ;D

But everything has a reason. Sorry for disturbing you, we could say "if it works and if it is nice, let's leave it as is!". OK, but if we don't understand what happens, we can be surprised one time - for example you will arrange your coastline, then you will change something completely different in your Plugins (ie. nor terrain mod neither the beach mod), and opening the game next time you will see the Olympic Beach instead of sand  ;)

I'm sure of what I say. I checked it. I moved Olympic Beach and PEG's terrain mod to my test PLugins folder (completely empty) and I saw the Olympic Beach in both positions (beach before terrain mod and after terrain mod - to do it I changed the terrain mod's name adding "a_' at it's beginning).

So it would be good to understand it.
Tell me please:
- Do you have (accidentally) any other terrain or beach mod and where?
- And... which water mod do you use and where is it in Plugins?

Adam

PS. You always find something leading to unusual and/or interesting conclusions  :D :thumbsup:
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

art128

Great choice there Derry ! Nice textures you used. :thumbsup:
looking forward to more... ;)

Arthur. ;)
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

Props & Texture Catalog

TheTeaCat

Adam
Thanks for the indepth explanation.

Right I found what was causing the problem :D :D

I emptied my plugins except for the NAM and the terrain files(including CPT OlympicBeach CPT MeadowshireCliff and CPT Water Little Missouri ) In every combination and had the same results as you. The beachmod extended under the water just as you experienced.

Then started adding in files a few at a time till I found the I had "my beach" again.
Gizmo's UnderwaterFlora - V1 is the file that causes this effect. It doesn't matter if it loads before or after any terrain mod for it effect to happen. I've made numerous tests on this since I saw your post
(day off = plenty of time to drinkTEA ::) and test:D)

So now we know what is the cause of my sandy shores :D

Quote from: Ennedi on January 19, 2009, 09:18:00 AM
PS. You always find something leading to unusual and/or interesting conclusions  :D :thumbsup:

Well they say Curiosity killed the cat ::) And I have been known to stick my nose into things when its not wanted
(sometimes to my detriment ::) :D :D

:satisfied:
TTC







Kettle's on. Milk? Sugars?    ps I don't like Earl Grey  $%Grinno$%
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - If you're not part of the solution , you're part of the problem!
"Never knock on Death's door: Ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!"
Tales at TeaTime      Now A proper NUT      TTC plays GRV II

Ennedi

#887
Congratulations Derry! :thumbsup:
You did exactly what I supposed  :D

Now we can make it completely clear.
I was thinking about Gizmo's Flora for a while. I have a list of mods which can affect terrain mods (Gizmo Water Flora and Day-Night Mod, beach mods like Extended Beach and Limitless Beach, Water Monolith Night Textures and a few others). But these mods affect the terrain mod in another way: they modify the Terrain Properties exemplar file which is the second one (after the INI ) important file in most of terrain mods. And they don't affect beach textures.

But if you found the source of our problem in the Gizmo Flora, I opened it to check what else can this mod do  ;)
And I found... textures 13 and 14!



Here I highlighted the texture 13 in zoom 4 (00000313), but both textures in all zooms look identical. This is your sand  ;D
As you see, it is a bit darker than the Maxis beach sand, but it is still sandy  ;). Why Gizmo included these textures into his mod? Most probably he choosen this color as a background for his flora.

Summary: PEG terrain Mod and Olympic Beach are independent and they will work together perfectly, no matter which one will be the first one.
Gizmo Water Flora will not affect the PEG terrain mod, even if it will be placed after it. But Water Flora will affect the Olympic Beach Mod, if it will be placed after it. Gizmo's textures 13 and 14 will overwrite Cycledogg's textures with the same numbers in this case.

Is it all? Absolutely not!  :D

1. Thanks to your experiments we learned something new  :thumbsup:. Gizmo's water Flora will change underwater textures of all Cycledogg's beach mods (all of them use textures 13 and 14). It will also change (in an unpleasant way) an old but excellent Mayor Bean Ocean River Mod (it uses textures 13 and 14 in a completely different way ie. to create different water colors on shallow and deep water).
But Gizmo's Flora v1 will not change another beach mods like beach mods series made by Teirusu. They use only texture 39, the basic beach texture for land.
Other water mods will not affected too, because Mayor Bean's mod is the only one including textures 13 and 14.
So you can leave it as is. You shouldn't be afraid about CTD and such things  :)
Btw Gizmo Water Flora v2 (used by most people now except these guys who have many old stuff and never cleaned up their Plugins folder  ;)) doesn't have these textures yet. So it will not cause a conflict with other mods described above.
But...

2. You have a luck that you used PEG's terrain mod. It is very simple and it doesn't modify any game parameters, especially the Terrain Properties exemplar. Every other terrain mod have this file with modified properties, and Gizmo Water Flora (both v1 and v2) will affect each of them if it will be placed after it in Plugins. Why? Because Gizmo's mod have the Terrain Properties too.
Why Gizmo used this exemplar? Because he strongly increased water transparency. Water become opaque at 30 m depth (Maxis) or 38 m (Cycledogg terrain mods). Gizmo Water Flora v1 increases this value to 500 m (two times more as the maximum water depth!). It means that practically all water is very transparent - much too transparent.
In version 2 Gizmo reduced this value to 90 m. Still too much for many people.
But another thing is more important. Custom terrain mods have some other parameters changed in Terrain Properties. And Gizmo's Terrain Properties modifies the only one described above, the rest is Maxis default. If this mod will be placed in Plugins after the terrain mod, it will overwrite all Terrain Properties parameters.
So if you will change your terrain mod, you will need to forget about sandy sea bottom - or to use another beach mod (not Cycledogg).

3. Is it any way to use both Gizmo Water Flora and the terrain mod (other than PEG's one)? Yes. We only need to have Water Flora before the terrain mod, for example in "Gizmo" subfolder, and the terrain mod later than it, for example in "Terrain Mod" subfolder (the game uses alphabetical order reading subfolders). Of course, we will have normal water in this case ie. it will become opaque at 38 m. But in my opinion it's more than enough to arrange the seashore in a nice way. It's only a question of some terraforming to have some shallow water at the seaside.
Personally, to avoid any conflicts, I made for my terrain mod a subfolder called "zzz_TerrainMod".

Sorry for so long post, but I hope it can be useful for you and maybe somebody else  :)

Edit: Yes, they say curiosity killed the cat  :D But I think more often curiosity can save the cat  ;) Everything depends on where will he stick his nose

Edit2
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Badsim

Hi Derry ,

Thanks for your experiments about the latest Pegasus terrain Mod - seems to be the fist one of a new batch of - , as I was tempted to use it too . I think it "magically" corresponds with a general and justified movement to come back to the original MAXIS ground textures , which are finally maybe not the best ones for particular cases , but the most proper for the most part of cases and situations on a same city tile .  And , except if you're named Ennedi ( so if you're able to create your own Mod  ;D) , that's hard to beat  . I'm going to install Peg's and Gizmo's Mods following the process described above by you and Adam .

Thank you both !  :thumbsup:

And , Derry , I'm impatient to see your developments on that interesting map . ;)



Cédric.

°   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °   °


EDGE4194

Derry- very nice map. There should be lots of possibilities with it. I'm glad to see you back at work again  ;)
Looking forward to see your progress.

TheTeaCat

#890





I must apologise for the lack of updates.

I recently lost a friend.
He sleeps peacefully now free from the pains he suffered so much.

So I haven't really been in the mood to do much lately.

That's normal at times like these but Dylan would be the first to give me a sharp kick and say "Come on, lets go do ......"

So picking myself up I have done a few bits and pieces
and the first order of business is to thank all my readers whether you post a comment or not.

Now time for (Tea ::)) some personal replies:

Quote from: Schulmanator on January 18, 2009, 05:03:47 PM
Oooooh! [emits squeal] What a nice map! I can't wait to see it in action!  &apls

Cheers Bruce. Its been a while since I felt like doing anything with it but lets hope you should see some results soon.

Quote from: Jmouse on January 18, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
Beautiful map, and love those mods. Been looking forward to the new start for a while now, and I can see it's been well worth the wait. :thumbsup:

So on with the show...
Joan
Thanks you Joan,
Sometime its good to go back to basics. Strip away the extras and the game at heart is still quite amazing.
But it's even better with all the extras :) Let's hope I can live up to your expectations;)

Quote from: dedgren on January 18, 2009, 09:24:44 PM
???

Bruce, you, my friend, been playing with your cats a bit too long.  (edit: That's what I thought too)

* * *

Derry, that's really fine looking terrain.  I'm no lurker (although I don't post here near often enough), but I'll lift a steaming mug of Boston's Moroccan Mint [linkie] in your honor.

Can't wait for more.


David


Cheers for the Tea David. Every time you post a comment here is uplifting in one way or another my friend. I know how hard it is to keep up with every thread here so I know your no lurker  $%Grinno$%

Quote from: catty on January 19, 2009, 12:48:37 AM
That map is looking good, looking forward to seeing what you do next  :)

Still lots of ground work to prepare but been laying the foundations so stay tuned


Quote from: bat on January 19, 2009, 08:55:47 AM
Nice new pictures of that region! Looking forward to more... ;)

Nice to see you once again Bat. Thanks for stopping by :thumbsup:

Quote from: art128 on January 19, 2009, 10:28:35 AM
Great choice there Derry ! Nice textures you used. :thumbsup:
looking forward to more... ;)

Arthur. ;)

Thanks Arthur. Took a while to make up my mind but I got there in the end. Lets see where the next step takes us.

Quote from: Badsim on January 20, 2009, 06:40:58 AM
Hi Derry ,

Thanks for your experiments about the latest Pegasus terrain Mod - seems to be the fist one of a new batch of - , as I was tempted to use it too . I think it "magically" corresponds with a general and justified movement to come back to the original MAXIS ground textures , which are finally maybe not the best ones for particular cases , but the most proper for the most part of cases and situations on a same city tile .  And , except if you're named Ennedi ( so if you're able to create your own Mod  ;D) , that's hard to beat  . I'm going to install Peg's and Gizmo's Mods following the process described above by you and Adam .

Thank you both !  :thumbsup:

And , Derry , I'm impatient to see your developments on that interesting map . ;)



Cédric.

Thanks Cédric
Glad my experiments are of help to people. Its often only by trying new stuff that we discover new things. I think Maxis got it pretty good with their textures, its just they were set for the wrong elevation and with Pegasus's mod it corrects it pretty well. I also noted that while a lot of the terrain mods are pretty spectacular(Hats off to the creators), there some time happens to be a tiling/repetitiveness in the region view which detracts in my opinion. Unless of course your named Ennedi and in that case you make the game do what you want. ( I think he has been getting lessons from Wouanagaine )

Good things come to those who are patient mate,so in the mean time I'll brew you a cuppa ;)


Quote from: EDGE4194 on January 20, 2009, 07:35:31 AM
Derry- very nice map. There should be lots of possibilities with it. I'm glad to see you back at work again  ;)
Looking forward to see your progress.

Cheers Edge.
Back to the old faithful but with a few twists. Hope what I have planned works as well as it does in my head;)

Adam


Thank you for a wonderfully detailed explanation. I learned something new from it and it then allowed me to find just why I had sandy instead of the beach mod. At least we now know just where to place that file so as to overcome/repeat its effect.

As I mentioned in a pm if we change textures 13&14 to say a rocky one it would give us a rocky seafloor. Just got to find something suitable then and see what I can do.


Now a few bits and bobs :)

Here for your delectation is another region shot.
But at least this time we have named all the tiles. 


So at least we'll know where we are in future updates :)

And I tried something else as well.

Yes my own mod- all my own hard work (but based on someone's else's mod)

It's nothing great but it saved me much scrolling through the landmark menu
There is a mod on the stex that hides all the maxis landmarks but it doesn't do the job fully especially if you have downloaded all the extra maxis ones (some being needed for CAM farms)

Here for visual reference is all 28 of them


Now that the landmarks menu is clearer by almost 70 items in total that is quite a bit of scrolling. A copy is attached if anyone would like to free the LM menu a bit. Just make sure to place it in a "Z"folder and enjoy

Oh yes a TEAser for you too


Next update coming soon


Regards
:satisfied:
TTC




Kettle's on. Milk? Sugars?    ps I don't like Earl Grey  $%Grinno$%
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - If you're not part of the solution , you're part of the problem!
"Never knock on Death's door: Ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!"
Tales at TeaTime      Now A proper NUT      TTC plays GRV II

Ennedi

Hello Derry,

That's really sad you lost a friend.
Yes, our friends go away - but maybe we will meet them after some time again?...In the meantime, our warm thoughts can help - both us and them. But we shouldn't stop them, let they go their way

Your region looks really impressive! :thumbsup: I'm very curious of your ideas, I'm glad I was able to help a bit, but knowing you we will see again something original, creative and unexpected  ;)
Your mod can be very useful, my menus are much too long too  :D
Thank you for it!

Warmest regards
Adam

PS. A cuppa?...

New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

threestooges

I'm sorry to hear about your loss, but at least the memories remain. Take whatever time you need, good things are worth waiting for. However, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what you have planned here. The TEAser looks promising, and is in your usual (i.e. very good) style. Hope things are going better for you now, and I'll see you around.
-Matt

bat

That's a great teaser! Nice rural area! And wonderful new picture of your great region!! :thumbsup:

metarvo

Oh, Derry, I'm sorry about your loss.  ()sad()  I'm glad to see your TEAser, though.  It looks as though you've got a nice region ready for development or rural use.
Find my power line BAT thread here.
Check out the Noro Cooperative.  What are you waiting for?  It even has electricity.
Want more? Try here.  For even more electrical goodies, look here.
Here are some rural power lines.

Pat

Derry my friend I am soo soo very sorry to hear of your loss!!!  I know no words can do any justice at this time but I want you to know I am here for you and as well as all of us!!!  I truly think Adam summed it up the best when he said
QuoteYes, our friends go away - but maybe we will meet them after some time again?...In the meantime, our warm thoughts can help - both us and them. But we shouldn't stop them, let they go their way

The region looks real great there and I will most certainly try out your new mod there!!!

Talk to you soon my friend,

cheers

Patrick

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie

art128

Derry, that region looks fantastic there my friend.
The TEAteaser is excellent too, I like these farms.

Arthur.  :thumbsup:
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

Props & Texture Catalog

Simpson

Hi Derry!  :)
Very fine update there, the region is looking very good.
Also the teaser is incredible, amazing fields. I'm looking forward to the next update my friend
Take care,

David

My new city is now here
The région of Kaikoura

Teaser of Lopsas[+ How did I do it?]:Lopsas

Jmouse

Sorry to hear of your loss, Derry. Hope it will bring comfort to realize that even though your friend is gone from sight, the friendship itself is a gift which can never be taken from you.

That teaser looks good.
I especially like the water, but the farms are coming along nicely. Overall, a lot of pleasing irregular shapes at work here filled with the promise of a lovely finished product. Glad to know you're playing the game again from time to time.

Later...
Joan

Sciurus

Nice teaser TTT :thumbsup: It's the first time (I think) I go there, and I'm not dissapointed &apls

A bientôt, Guillaume
L'atelier d'architecture
* * * * * Longwy * * * * *