Diagonal Bridges

[rotaryspdpunk]

Ok,

It is possible to do diagonal bridges, the only problem is that they must be lot-based.  They're actually quite simple, there's just a bunch of work that must be done, and the prohibitions of certain items in the LE, the Reader, and SC4tool make it a rather busy process...

Anyway, my problem is that I know how to make diagonal bridges function, but BATting bridges is far from my forte.  I was wondering if anyone would be interested in exporting their models on the diagonal.  The process is totally different from 'real' SC4 bridges, in that the whole model must be exported as a single unit, and the 0,0 point must occur where the bridge is on land.  Essentially, it needs to be BATted like an overhanging prop.

Bridge length can be doubled if the model is semetrical by placing the bridge prop on either side of the land.

Length is the biggest issue.  Because they are lot-based, the bridge length is fixed.  By using the double bridge method (depending on the specifics of the model) it is possible to make a double minus one tiles bridge length and anywhere in between.

Here shows the functionality:


Here is the double-bridge method (though it's used on a straight lot-based bridge):

[FromTheAshes]

Great idea I'm curious about the progress. Because of the length-problem: Maybe you can use some water-lots as theay are made pretty easy in the LET. That should work...

[rooker1]

This sounds very interesting.  I'll have to watch for more progress here.

Robin   

[rotaryspdpunk]

Great idea I'm curious about the progress. Because of the length-problem: Maybe you can use some water-lots as theay are made pretty easy in the LET. That should work...

There's no more progress to make, per se...only implementation.

The problem of Bridge height is the overarching problem encountered.  Everything is a compromise around this.

Let me really quick define 'Land-based' and 'Water-based' as they apply to this type of bridge:
Both are lots of equal size to the bridge span (i.e. the 5x5 bridge shown in the pic above is on a 5x5 lot that spans the canal)

Land-based - is where a blank building and the bridge prop(s) are placed in the very corner of the lot (the 0,0 coordinate of the 0,0 tile).

Water-based - is where the building and bridge prop(s) are placed at mid-span.

Water lots don't work effectively for variable elevation approaches.  Because you can only have height Z for any given building based off the sea floor or water line (through a series of workarounds similar to seaport and smoncrie's hole diggin lots behavior).  The problem is that it must be pathed in a manner conemplative of it's end use, where as land-based bridges require only basic transit enabling and minor raw-data modding.

Water-based bridges could work with variable lengths through a puzzle-peice system.  It involves 2 lots (the bridge approach elevation variance lot and the major bridge spans.  It would require that the approach peice (with an elevated path) be placed at 'sea level' (where self-leveling seaports level too).  By transit enabling this section of road, we can get the desired behavior of being able to lay road conforming to the land where the transit Z>0 point, and level out when the transit Z=0.  Using Smoncrie's methods of hole-digging, sea-level leveling, and the mod to allow roads under water (it's actually for underwater neighbor connections), it's possible to get a definate elevation on the below sea-level bridge spans which can lots and puzzle peices could be used alternately for an indefinate distance.

My logic has been that the point of making a water-based bridge is to increase the usablity of the bridge by making it variable length; however, the number of work arounds and comprimises that must be made far exceed the work required to just make new models of the bridges for a different fixed length.  As such, I have pursued the idea of Water-based bridges no further.



-------------------------

Ok, a few more items I just want to point out that I've previously considered (I'm sure some of you are dying to point some of them out):

First off, when transit enabling, you cannot modify the Z coordinate and have the effect of 'lifting' the paths in game.  I assume this coordinate only applies to items that apply a specific path and that the game's 'basic TE' paths that it applies to TE lots superceed the z coordinate.

Foundations cause problems with water.

The BUILDING must be a blank building of the smallest size possible.  It must fit in it's entirety on totally leveled land at bridge height.  You want the bridge to make landfall on the smallest area possible, because when square lots are used for diagonal bridges, you lose the ability to do anything on the tiles in then 'diag-bridge cone'.

And a quick word of the wise, in spite of the above, it seems more logical (for purposes of menu clutter and BAT modeler considerations) to vary bridge length at intervals of 3 or 4 tiles, rather than just 1 or 2.  (i.e. a 'set' of a given bridge would have spans: 4x4, 7x7, 11x11, 14x14...and so on).

[rotaryspdpunk]

Oh, one more quick thing....these work for GLR and pedestrian bridges too.

That's true of straight and diagonal (and actually anywhere in between if you a. don't care about proper pathing, or b. want to properly path it).

I originally started working on this for the sake of making curved bridges and multi-network bridges (which are trivial on lot-based).

It's proven quite useful knowledge.

[Shadow Assassin]

Might want to point out that it is indeed also possible to do diagonal bridges that do not require the use of a lot, however, it's more the difficulty of modding these bridges that are such a turn off. Though, this is a good solution to that problem.

It has been proven that diagonal bridges are possible, but it requires a lot more puzzle pieces.

[rotaryspdpunk]

It has been proven that diagonal bridges are possible, but it requires a lot more puzzle pieces.

Yeah, it really limits the elevation too with diagonals.

I'm starting to wonder if a Gateshead Millennium Bridge could be done...obviously there's no problems with the shape on a lot based, but does someone have the knowhow to to make the props alternate so the bridge could go up or down?  How cool would that be?

[ArkenbergeJoe]

@rotaryspdpunk: Hübsche Stadt 
Diagonale Brücken hab ich mit vorhandenen Puzzleteilen zusammengesetzt. Sie funktioniert sogar...


Man müsste es noch verbessern. Entsprechende Start/Endstücken bauen, und Mittelteile, wo die Pfeiler länger sind. Einen Pfad für die Fähre sollte man nicht vergessen, wer weiß, ob's geht??
Und das Ufer müsste mit so etwas ähnlichem wie dem "Hole-Digger-Lots" bearbeitet werden.

[HabLeUrG]

English please.... (or at least spanish  )

wow excellent work, thats a good idea 

[ArkenbergeJoe]

Sorry for my German-language, i can not english speaken and write...
My german-post can your translatet with "Babelfish".
Or i can not posting in the SC4D 

[HabLeUrG]

no problem about that the same happens to me in english, i use to speak in spanish but dont worry this is an international forum 

[M4346]

Babelfish doesn't always provide a correct and coherent translation, so I'll give it a go.

@rotaryspdpunk: Hübsche Stadt 
Diagonale Brücken hab ich mit vorhandenen Puzzleteilen zusammengesetzt. Sie funktioniert sogar...


Man müsste es noch verbessern. Entsprechende Start/Endstücken bauen, und Mittelteile, wo die Pfeiler länger sind. Einen Pfad für die Fähre sollte man nicht vergessen, wer weiß, ob's geht??
Und das Ufer müsste mit so etwas ähnlichem wie dem "Hole-Digger-Lots" bearbeitet werden.

I have added together / constructed diagonal bridges with existing puzzle pieces, and they even function. One would still have to improve it, starting with appropriate start- and end-pieces, and center-sections where the columns are longer. One should also remember to path it for ferries, who knows, if it goes or not? The shore / bank of the river would also have to be worked on with something similar to 'hole digging lots'



I think that is about the crux of the post.

[Rayden]

That's what I understood as well with my little knowledge of german language. I'm sure Andreas or FTA will explain that to us in case we didn't understood that well.

[Andreas]

The translation was accurate, apart from a very minor thing. In the sentence with the ferries, ArkenbergeJoe meant "Who knows if that works or not."

[M4346]

Thanks Andreas, and sorry for the little error. I think 'geht' caught me there, because I would maybe have rather used 'funktioniert', but I'm not a first language speaker.

[rotaryspdpunk]

As far as I know, three is no reason that a ferry wouldn't work under a puzzle peice lot.

I was personally mortified to learn that lots cannot block them (if someone knows how, please fill me in!)...they just sail on through.  I think lots of people might like this fact.  It means that draw bridges can be done (minimally with seasonal props???  Need some advise on this).

Oh, also, when testing the bridges, I inadvertently discovered that you can build bridges directly out of these lots (i.e. overhang water and build to the opposite side)....which means you could do an Oakland Bay Bridge style diagonal offset without some dopy looking island or penensula.   

Anyway, if anyone is willing to put forth the time and effort to render their bridges on the diagonal (a full or half length bridge with the land side of the bridge at the 0,0,0 point), I'll do the modding of it for you or help you with it....just need some models to use.

[jeronij]

You may want to try with this one ( rendered with the start at exactly 0,0,0  )
Krummbach Diagonal Start

[rotaryspdpunk]

Wow... and here I was hoping to have a PM requesting the details of it!

Very nicely done jeronij!  I'll try and play with this tonight or tomorrow.  Hopefully there will be a beta version soon.

[Shadow Assassin]

Out of curiosity, Jeroni, what does the bridge look like?

[jeronij]

SA, the Krummbach bridge (orthogonal version) is my last LEX release 

rotarysp, I hope the models is what you were looking for. If there is any issue or problem just let me know