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FLEX Turn Lanes (FTL) and Related Projects - Development and Support

Started by Tarkus, August 01, 2009, 09:36:25 PM

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Wiimeiser

So if OWR has to be the one leaving the slip lane tile, but the networks have to be different, then this particular setup is physically impossible:


Time to break out the TuLEPs, I guess?
Pink horse, pink horse, she rides across the nation...

mgb204

Not really, since such setups simply don't exist with TuLEPs anyhow, there is no benefit to using them in this situation.

As for the use of different networks, I'd imagine this could work using a road stub, similar to the OWR SITAP pieces, which would act as a workaround. I'm not sure if that's coded to work right now, as with many NAM developments, the first release is a WIP and further functionality will be added in future. I won't state anything on record, lest I embarrass myself like I did saying the slip lanes wouldn't fully work on all corners. Having realised, like many others, I was simply doing it wrong  :-[.

Overall though I must say that having initially thought I wouldn't use them much, I've been quick to come around to them. Simply because FTLs greatly expand upon the options for turning lanes, they become pretty indispensable once you start messing around with them. But even those setups where I would have previously used TuLEPs, I'm finding the FTLs are often a preferable solution. The QuickTurns are hugely quicker to place and I'm loving that you can now have TuLEPs in a more condensed space too. That's before all the other amazing new functionality is added in, which I'm really excited about.

Seaman

Quote from: Tarkus on September 29, 2017, 06:33:37 PM
The RD-4-to-Type 120 transition was indeed something that was planned.  There was going to even be a FLEX piece under the FTL menu for it, but I couldn't get the overrides quite where I wanted them.  The FLEX piece was disabled, but what had been done on the overrides was left in place as an unadvertised as-is feature.  I believe Brian did actually manage to get it working during testing, so it can be done, but it's not the most stable thing by any means.

Ah, thank you for this info. After your hint, I've tried to get the RD-4 starter (yellow) closer to the FTL transition (blue). It seems to work if you have just 1 tile inbetween.


This has actually quite an impact for me since I was sort of neglecting the RD-4 because of the missing turning lane features and the space consuming workaround by converting it to AVE-4.
Now, you may consider me an even more happy FTL user. I'm starting to run out of wishes here  ;D

Kitsune

Are there rd x rd or rd x ave intersections in the tab ring? As I cycled through everything, rotated everything 8 times and can't find them.
~ NAM Team Member

Tarkus

There are Type 110 x Type 110 and Type 120 x 110 intersections within the QuickTurn setups--they're the first two there.  If you're looking for something involving a Road without a turn lane, however, that presently requires manual FTL usage.  The number of QuickTurn setups may be expanded if there's interest, provided the additions don't bog down the menu too much.

-Alex

Kitsune

The problem I have with quick turns is it doesnt allow to be used with TLA-3 and AVE-2. If the RHW disconnect could be expanded over to FTL this would fix the situation.
~ NAM Team Member

Tarkus

Actually, the transition points from Road-to-Type 110 can be overridden by the TLA-3, AVE-2, and ARD-3.  Just drag the NWM network into the Road end of the transition, and it should convert to the appropriate NWM-to-Type 110 transition.  If you're trying to do something like a Type 110 x TLA-3 intersection, however, that won't work, as the TLA-3, AVE-2, and ARD-3 must be converted to Type 110 FTLs in order to intersect other FTL setups.

An expanded Disconnector is a real possibility going forward in any case, however.

-Alex

Ramona Brie

One override I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is AVE-2 into a Type 110 median. Stumbled upon this one by accident...


Tarkus

Always excited when someone first figures out one of our intentionally hidden secrets. :thumbsup:  That one can actually be produced two ways, in case anyone is wondering--the same override technique I described with the Road-to-Type 110 starter and an NWM network, and it also works using the "overlap" method (stack the AVE-to-Type 110 starter on top of the Road-to-Type 110 Median starter, or vice-versa).

Continuing on from the main NAM tech support thread, there's been a few questions lately regarding the FTLs and the NWM's NRD-4 network.  Accordingly, I thought I'd take this chance to discuss what's planned--and not planned--there, as well as get some feedback regarding footprints for various proposed new FTL types. 

The only plans for NRD-4 support are (a) the ability to intersect the various FTL types as appropriate, (b) eventual "arrow showing" capability as the NRD-4 approaches intersections via a special FLEX piece (essentially a "Type 020" for the NRD-4--most networks are actually planned to receive this sort of feature), and (c) potential for some future FTL setups to occupy the same footprint as the NRD-4 (though many of them wouldn't really be classed as actual "NRD-4 FTLs", as they wouldn't actually support transitions to/from NRD-4).

Getting to point (c) in further detail, the main ones being considered for the footprint are the Dual Type 110--which has its future tied to the "QuickChange Xpress" plans for the RHW--and the Dual Type 011.  However, it's also being explored as a possible footprint for the Type 111 and/or Type 210 concepts, which have also been proposed as multi-tile setups, as seen in much earlier prototypes from the TuLEP days.  The table below shows what some of these concepts would look like.



The Type 111 is one I go back and forth on, in particular (and would welcome feedback regarding).  The multi-tile version just uses a small bit of another tile, but the narrower width makes the potential connection of the right turn lane to a slip lane a fair bit trickier (though a similar alignment would probably be needed for the Road Type 011).  And there's also capacity/functionality matters to consider.  There is some potential trickery I could do that may work well with a QuickTurn setup if the NRD-4 footprint goes forward, though extending that to a standard FTL setup may prove more challenging.

For comparison, here's the old multi-tile TuLEP-based prototype of the Type 111.


And here's the old multi-tile Type 210 TuLEP-based prototype from 2013.


-Alex

mgb204

Not sure I like the 111, my first thought is that having the overhanging (or 2-tile) texture will create problems zoning. I also don't like the asymmetry in the junction.

But the 210 I'd love to see, for one it's a great way to handle transitions from NRD-4 to Road with intersections between. The 3/1 lane split also makes a lot of sense for such compact networks too.

Tyberius06

I deffenetly like those intersection plans, especially, because if you leave the inside left turning lane, it is possible to make left turn restriction intersections, where the right lane turn only right, and the middle (left lane) goes only ahead. And yepp, I like the asymmetry, it looks real, in real life there is a lot very weird shape intersection... :)

You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

Kitsune

With the 111 in a NRD-4 footprint, if you make the right turning lane also a thru lane, you get a perfect NRD-4 to Road transfer.
~ NAM Team Member

b22rian

I agree with MGB's comments about the asymmetry of the intersection..

Tarkus

Thank you, mgb204, Tyberius06, Kitsune, and b22rian for the useful feedback!  I've actually done a fair bit of playing around with prototype textures since, as well as a test of my "potential trickery" on the capacity/functionality side for using the NRD-4 footprint (which actually exceeded my expectations quite a bit).

For the sake of comparison purposes, I whipped up a potential prototype for an FTL x Road intersection, in which one side of the FTL equation is the "single-tile" version of Type 111, occupying the NRD-4 footprint, and the other is the familiar Type 110.  I then drew some lines on it to visualize the intersection geometry and what the pathing might look like with through traffic (the white lines--the purple line and the yellow stripe are showing the direct path of that center lane on the Type 111), which I'd be curious to get everyone's thoughts regarding.



As you can see, there's a bit of a jog there going north-to-south, from the Type 111 onto the Type 110.  That jog is probably a bit more pronounced here, due to the fact that the cross network is merely a Road, whereas it would be more gradual intersecting a multi-tile network.  With a Type 210 setup (which wouldn't make sense intersecting a Road, though would with a One-Way Road), the north-south jog is identical to that of the south-north one.  Due to how the Type 110 intersections are designed, and the minimal width difference between Type 110 and the NRD-4 footprint, making the intersection textures is actually quite easy.

Regarding intersection asymmetry, it is something I am accustomed to seeing as well, though my concerns about that multi-tile footprint for the Type 111, coupled with the increased promise of the single-tile footprint, have me leaning toward the single-tile option.

Quote from: Kitsune on October 16, 2017, 01:29:28 PM
With the 111 in a NRD-4 footprint, if you make the right turning lane also a thru lane, you get a perfect NRD-4 to Road transfer.

Indeed, you're right, and inspired me to start playing with NRD-4 versions of Type 120 and Type 110.  There really seems to be a lot of potential configurations that work with the footprint, and produce adequate intersection geometry.  I have so many prototype textures sitting here now. :D

-Alex

j-dub

In real life, I have seen this sort of severe lane jog thing in the intersection without lane lines in the crossing, but GTA V know these sort of setups exist too, but they actually bothered to draw dashed lines in the crossing, not that the player probably even cares.

Tarkus

With the dashed lines, I looked to see if I could find a good way of marking it . . . didn't find anything conclusive (usually, the mid-intersection dashed markings show up when there's multiple lanes turning, not for a through motion, as in this case).  The closest I could really find was with slight offsets involving bicycle lanes.  In any case, this is my attempt at adding a marking to help the jog with dashed markings.



-Alex

b22rian

Alex,

Sure that is fine by me , anyways  :thumbsup:
I know you are doing the best you can to give this the best look possible and its appreciated !!

Wiimeiser

Think about it: the OWR has to be departing the slip lane tile. The RD-OWR relationship must have the two perpendicular, you can't use the same for both. In other words, such a situation as OWR departing from an intersection while fearuring a slip lane is technically physically impossible via logical paradox. It's like, say, two men, each taller than the other, or "this sentence is a lie".
Pink horse, pink horse, she rides across the nation...

mgb204

Except RUL allows the game to see how two tiles interact and alter the behaviour as desired. With a little cleverness this can be extended beyond two tiles or where it's simply not possible, we can just work around the issue with a flex piece.

Seaman

Quote from: Tarkus on October 19, 2017, 02:53:37 AM
With the dashed lines, I looked to see if I could find a good way of marking it . . . didn't find anything conclusive (usually, the mid-intersection dashed markings show up when there's multiple lanes turning, not for a through motion, as in this case).  The closest I could really find was with slight offsets involving bicycle lanes.  In any case, this is my attempt at adding a marking to help the jog with dashed markings.

I've just realized that the US isn't very much into dashed line markings. I troubled to find serious markings in some random big US cities on google maps. Although I would love to see the markings on the FTL intersections, it just seems that they don't quite fit the US scheme  &mmm. Anyone for some help here?

just look at this random intersection in Detroit
compared to this random intersection in Berlin (actually, I get lost on these intersections quite frequently since it's hard to see which lines you should follow)