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Compatible Seaport Controllers?

Started by Jonathan, March 03, 2009, 08:53:58 AM

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Jonathan

If Pegasus won't fix his creations, then can someone else (It probably be best if the person wasn't in the BSC as Peg seems to blame everything on them, and thinks anyone who contradicts him is in the BSC)?

Also with the sea ports, is it like the NAM where only one Controller can be in the plugins folder?
All I've read is that the Controller only needs to reference TGIs, which are not peg's creation, therefore he can't control what references it.
Also can a third party create a controller that is compatible with the BSC and Peg's?

Jonathan

Diggis

Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 08:53:58 AM
If Pegasus won't fix his creations, then can someone else (It probably be best if the person wasn't in the BSC as peg seems to blame everything on them, and thinks anyone who contradicts him is in the BSC)?

Also with the sea ports, is it like the NAM where only one Controller can be in the plugins folder?
All I've read is that the Controller only needs to reference TGIs, which are not peg's creation, therefore he can't control what references it.
Also can a third party create a controller that is compatible with the BSC and peg's?

Jonathan


To fix Pegs files would involve uploading files that are essentially Pegs work, meaning it would violate the common law of the community.  The only person who could, and should, fix those files is Peg himself.

As for the seaports, adding him to the controller isn't the issue.  Tage had set up a system of 'blockers' so you don't have to download ALL the seaports, but to do one for Pegs would again require uploading his some of his work.

Bap:  That is good news indeed.

RippleJet

#2
Excellent, bap&dance


Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 08:53:58 AM
If Pegasus won't fix his creations, then can someone else (It probably be best if the person wasn't in the BSC as peg seems to blame everything on them, and thinks anyone who contradicts him is in the BSC)?

His EULA usually prohibits you to even mod his stuff for your own purposes.
Even if you would mod his files, his general EULA would prohibit you to make them available to the public.


Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 08:53:58 AM
Also with the sea ports, is it like the NAM where only one Controller can be in the plugins folder?
All I've read is that the Controller only needs to reference TGIs, which are not peg's creation, therefore he can't control what references it.

In general, yes. The controller lists ths IID's of each individual seaport's own controller.
Each individual controller points to the IID's of each lot (all growth stages) of that seaport.

The problem is that the main controller has to list the individual controllers in exactly the same order,
otherwise you would get a CTD when you open a city that was saved with them in a different order.

Pegasus refused to agree on a common order of IID's within the main controller,
and thus we have two conflicting main seaport controllers.


Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 08:53:58 AM
Also can a third party create a controller that is compatible with the BSC and peg's?

I have such a controller, and anyone who asks for it would get it from me.
Since each seaport by Pegasus includes its individual controller and in some cases also the main seaport controller, we cannot just add another individual controller that would point to his seaport lots though.
The conflicting controller(s) would have to be lifted out of his files first (breeching his EULA again).

In order to work seemlessly together, I've changed the IID's for all seaports by Pegasus and added them to the available (unused) main controller ID's in BSC Functional Seaports.
Instructions on how to do that are attached to this post.


EDIT:
The instructions and files attached to this post have been updated in order to add the industrial CAP relief.
This in order to bring these enablers on par with BSC Functional Seaports 3.0, where every port provides CAP relief.

EDIT
May 22, 2020
The files attached have been updated to be fully MAC compatible.
- Nate

callagrafx

Quote from: RippleJet on March 03, 2009, 09:20:53 AM
His EULA usually prohibits you to even mod his stuff for your own purposes.
Even if you would mod his files, his general EULA would prohibit you to make them available to the public.

although, from what Andreas has posted, he's not averse to modding other peoples and claiming "all my own wurk"  ::)  Dont'cha love double standards  :D :D
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

Jonathan

What would/could he do if you just made your own Controller and uploaded it?

Couldn't you create empty Controller for the Seaports then create new ones (with different IIDs if you can) that make it compatible?
Sorry, I'm dragging it off topic, I'd make my own thread but no idea where.

Also isn't there a limit to what the EULA can be for creator's in the SC4 EULA?

Jonathan

RippleJet

Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
What would/could he do if you just made your own Controller and uploaded it?

The main controller included in BSC Functional Seaports already supports an additional 16 custom seaports.


Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
Couldn't you create empty Controller for the Seaports then create new ones (with different IIDs if you can) that make it compatible?

There are 10 "blank" plus 6 "empty" individual controllers included in BSC Functional Seaports.
The 10 blank ones point at 10 included blank seaport lots, which anybody can lot to their own likening.

The 6 empty controllers currently point to nonexistant seaport lots.
All that is needed to add additional third-party seaports is to change the instance ID's of the lots you want to fit into those "slots".


Quote from: Warrior on March 03, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
Also isn't there a limit to what the EULA can be for creator's in the SC4 EULA?

Probably, but the creator would instead once again probably threaten to leave the community and withdraw all his creations.
I'm not prepared to risk that and get the community blame me for that.

Andreas

Jonathan,

it's a long story, unfortunately. IIRC, RippleJet published a new seaport controller that actually was compatible with PEG's stuff, but PEG requested that it has to be taken down, even though it was against all rationality, and a solution that would serve both sides was actually very easy (like what we did with the NAM Controller, offering other developers our help and compiling a mod that can be used by the whole community). We can only guess about PEG's motives, but as long as he is locking himself in his forum, refusing any contact with other developers, there won't be any chance to set up a proper communication. I always tried to "build bridges" between individual groups, and I tried to build bridges to PEG as well, but eventually, my effort lead into a complete ban, as in so many other cases before.
Andreas

callagrafx

Quote from: Andreas on March 03, 2009, 10:48:18 AM
We can only guess about his motives, but as long as he is locking himself in his forum, refusing any contact with other developers, there won't be any chance to set up a proper communication.

If I recall, his main objection was that he didn't want BSC to have control of the controller file  ::)
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

Jonathan

Andreas, you might be able to explain better :)
Like what we did to reorder the NAM icons, yet still make it optional (create dummies then make new ones with different IIDs)?

Jonathan

Andreas

#9
@callagrafx: I think I even offered some "neutral grounds" for a common seaport controller (i. e. released by the SFBT), but apparently, that was not an option for peg.

@Jonathan: Yes, the NAM icons seem to suffer from a similar effect - the game will read them all, instead of overriding them, creating certain issues. Choosing the IDs is crucial here, and the airport and seaport developer exemplar files only work properly with an exact number of IDs (and associated lots) defined. Once the number of lots that are installed clashes with the information in the controller, it will lead to a CTD, unfortunately. Developers have to work together, even more than with the NAM stuff, in order to prevent rendering the game completely unusable.
Andreas

Jonathan

Thanks Tage for splitting the topics.

What I mean is, creating blank Controller effectively deleting the controllers in Peg's files (without actually modifying his files)
then creating new controllers with different IIDs.

Jonathan

RippleJet

It would of course be possible, but then if any of Peg's files (installed in zzz folders) would be loaded after the BSC Seaports, we would have his controller(s) overriding, and certainly causing CTD's.

And I do kind of feel more comfortable with having his controllers installed in zzz folders and thus being the ultimate reason for any reported CTD's...

Rayden

Quote from: RippleJet on March 03, 2009, 11:59:22 AM
It would of course be possible, but then if any of peg's files (installed in zzz folders) would be loaded after the BSC Seaports, we would have his controller(s) overriding, and certainly causing CTD's.

And I do kind of feel more comfortable with having his controllers installed in zzz folders and thus being the ultimate reason for any reported CTD's...

Of course we could always add one "z" more than his lots, and probably making him alter his lots to install with one more as well, then we add an extra one again...  $%Grinno$% Nahhhh, too much trouble and also giving too much importance to that guy. :P

callagrafx

Quote from: Rayden on March 03, 2009, 12:15:56 PM
.....also giving too much importance to that guy. :P


What guy's that again?  :D :D
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

Mbolism

So, I guess the question is, is the above enabler download still useable?  I.E. does it work?  I've got a fresh build of the game now with no cities, just installing plugins and testing them, so I'm willing to try doing all that work (that I don't really understand :D) to re-name the files and the like to make it work.  Again, only if it's actually feasible.

RippleJet

Most certainly, and especially with the now updated and uploaded BSC Functional Seaports 3.0. ;)

You need to install that package first, then create (or use) the enablers above and place them in the Plugins\X-Ports\Seaports folder.

CahosRahneVeloza

Are those PEG Seaport enablers posted above still compatible with BSC Functional Seaports 3.1?

jeffryfisher

Apologies for extending a long quiet thread, but I am looking at using these enablers.

If the info and files in this thread are obsolete (and the thread truly necro), then it means I should abandon this line of modding and go elsewhere. If that's the case, please say so gently so future readers will not be tempted to do what I am about to try (and if you can point to a newer, better solution, that would be much appreciated).

My situation is that I have a well-developed region with many PEG container seaports in many city-sectors. When I tried to build my first large-scale airport (JENX AC Airports) and plopped a cargo loader (stealth seaport on land), I hit a CTD. My research into the cause led me into this seaport controller rabbit hole.

I think I understand the instructions for installing the PEG/BSC seaport controller compatibility enablers. What I don't know (and haven't found in searching... yet) is what steps I need to take with existing cities that have the original PEG seaports. There are long sad stories of permanently borked cities in other threads, but the victims are never clear on exactly how they got there. I'd like to avoid their fate.

Do I need to bulldoze every PEG seaport in every city before I do the mod-swap (install BSC Seaport 3.1 and replace PEG's container seaport with the compatible one)? In other words, is the controller problem baked into the plopped object, or can I change the DAT files behind its back and expect it to keep on ticking?

If nobody knows for sure, then I will do a lot of backing up (burning both region and plugins to a DVD) before I proceed. I'll try to remember to report back with my results.

BTW @CahosRahneVeloza, if you learned anything on your own in 2014, please report the aftermath.
Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)

Andreas

The problem with the airport and seaport controllers is that there can be only one instance of the file, and it must contain every functional airport/seaport lot that you have installed, and you need to install all airports/seaports that are listed in the controller file (even though some might be "blank" lots that are hidden from the game menu, in case you don't want to use them.

It is not possible to have more than one controller installed at a time, so you need to make absolutely sure which airport or seaport lots are supported with the controller of your choice. If you have enough modding knowledge, you can add other custom airports and seaports to the controller, but the number of IDs listed there and the number of installed lots must match all the time, and you cannot remove an existing lot from your plugins folder later.

I'm not entirely sure about the existing PEG seaports, but if the current BSC Seaport Controller claims there's support for them, there's no need to bulldoze those, but you only need to make sure that you delete the seaport controller that PEG included in his files and use the BSC version instead. I don't know if it's a separate file, but if not, make sure that the BSC Seaport Controller is loaded after the PEG stuff (by adding some "zzz" in the folder name etc.). The readme should cover everything that you need to know about it, hopefully. Having a backup of your regions is always a good idea, though. ;)
Andreas

jeffryfisher

OK, I think I have applied these files.  At least I don't have CTDs. However, the PEG container port has vanished from my seaport submenu (it was the PEG file with an incompatible controller). I thought I followed all the instructions... How do i inject the PEG container seaport to work with the hybrid controller without its problem controller?
Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)