Joint Project: Nerdly & SW77

[nerdly_dood]

These posts were originally in my Garage Thread. Since the posts went beyond just asking for help, I have moved them to this thread. -Swamper77
Stunning is right!  But I'm posting here for another reason than just keeping up with your work, I'm giving you a taste of my work.

I am requesting permission to release a BLaM/BSC SW77 yellow version of your American Fire Vehicles pack.  I have everything done except the fire chief's car, which I only intend to change to yellow if demand is high enough.

The rural fire unit works fine:

The ladder unit works too:

Rescue Unit 1 works...

...but only if I have your Automata Essentials file in my plugins folder (I emptied it so that the game would load faster, and I forgot to keep that from being moved)

The Pumper looks strange.  That is only because when I was turning the PNGs into a FSH file, I changed them into the DXT1 format instead of the DXT3 format.  I have fixed the problem but I haven't had a chance to test the updated version in-game, and Ilive's Reader isn't the best method of showing such things.



I am also in the process of making a different version of the ambulance that came with your Euro emergency vehicle pack, but it is still in the PNG editing phase, so I don't have any in-game pictures.  A preliminary description is that it will have a red-and-yellow stripe along the side.  I haven't started on the Euro fire van yet, or the ladder unit, but I intend to do something with them, possibly turn them yellow, possibly something else.

I have also noted that there is a function to export automata models into 3DS files, which I may use with the plugin manager to turn my new vehicles into props...

I have attached a zip with all the fire units.  IF THERE IS EVEN THE SLIGHTEST PROBLEM WITH A SINGLE ONE, NOTIFY ME IMMEDIATELY! Please note that you will need SW77 Automata Essentials for these to work properly.

[Swamper77]

Nerdly,

You will want to download the updated models for all my emergency vehicle sets. I rescaled the models so they fit better in the game, particularly on the street network. The images you have will still work, but you will need to rebuild your files if you download my updated files.

Other than that, you have my full permission to release the yellow versions of my vehicles with the following required credits:

- Ripptide for making the original models
- Swamper77 for converting Ripptide's models to automata.

-Jan

[nerdly_dood]

Great, thanks!

The automata I used above came directly from a zip file I made a point to download after you updated the scale for, but I could probably try it again, but I hope they have the same FSH files...I have posted in the BLaM team room with a rundown of everything I have going on with the re-skinning project.

And of course, credit will go where it's due.

[Swamper77]

The images you have will still work, but you will need to rebuild your files if you download my updated files.

Nerdly,

As I said above ^ your images will still work. All the ID's are the same, the models are just slightly smaller.

-Jan

[Pat]

Ahhh sweet I see your a step ahead of me Nerdly and thank you Jan for allowing the release with credits due of course!!!

[kassarc16]

nerdly_dood, will these replace Swamper's vehicles? If so, is it possible to eventually get a set of additionals? Variety is great!

[nerdly_dood]

The yellow ones will be EXACTLY the same as Swamper77's fire trucks, including that there are 3 replacement automata choices, of which you must choose ONE, and that there will be 5 additionals, of which the fire chief's car will not be a choice, although I have done some fiddling with the Reader which MIGHT enable me to give you a yellow fire chief's car at some point, (I need to do a lot more fiddling and tweaking and experimenting) but it will be a separate release with a different model, and probably lights that flash when the siren is on. (I might release a pack of several different designs...)

(A link to) My development thread can be found in my signature sometime beginning in the next few minutes.

@ SW77 Also, I have made (but not tested yet) an orange version of your replacement rural fire truck, which will be released (if you allow it, of course) separately, and a more detailed Euro emergency vehicle pack, which includes such updates as:
-Red and yellow stripes on the ambulance
-The word 'AMBULANCE' printed on the sides of the ambulance, along with a smaller cross that is darker to match the stripes
-'SCFD RESCUE' text on the fire van additional, as well as yellow and white stripes
-Less white on the Euro ladder unit, (except inside the ladder itself, something seems to be acting up with the alpha maps, which show clear through where they should...in small tiny places) with more red, and some yellow and white stripes on the side.
-Updates for the ambulance and the ladder unit are the same for additionals and replacements.

I figured that it would be best to inform you of everything I am doing to your mods that I intend to release (with your permission). I have made a yellow Euro ladder unit, but I don't intend to release it.

[Swamper77]

Nerdly,

I don't mind you releasing your "repaints" of my vehicles, as we discussed earlier. Besides, it frees up my time from having to do all the different colors

As for making the fire chief's car with working lights, the current one does have the functions for having working lights, but I referenced one of Maxis' invisible models just so the siren would work correctly. I was trying to stay true to Ripptide's original model. I am working on a separate vehicle file that will have a lightbar on the roof. I'll upload it soon, please be patient until I get it uploaded.

To make all your yellow additional units co-exist with my red additional units, you will need to change the Instance ID's of the models, FSH images, and the Exemplars for the vehicles. Please do not randomly pick numbers from the ranges of numbers you found in my files. If you need help coming up with unique Instance ID numbers that will not conflict, send me a PM and I'll send you a set of ID's privately.

-Jan

[nerdly_dood]

I didn't intend to make a set of yellow additional fire trucks that would appear in addition to your red ones, primarily because, although it would add variety, it would be unrealistic (at least, to me): Just about all US fire departments have the same color fire trucks, and if they don't then the ones that are different colors are probably different models. I could, however, use some IIDs so that I could make such additions to your additionals, since at least someone could use them...

What I meant about making a fire chief's car is that I would use a model that's already made, probably the one I'm using to make my police car mods, and give it the IID of the fire chief's car, so that you don't have people   breathing over your shoulder wondering when you'll get your projects done; I'm looking forward to it but I'm not rushing you (at least I hope i'm not...)

While the subject of IIDs is still in the air, I got the idea last night to change the IID of some various light models I've found in various places to the IID of the police car light (10243000) so that the police car would have that light effect.  The light effects that I have access to are:
- Single blue rotating light, made by Pegasus for German police cars
- Double blue rotating effect, made by Pegasus for German police vans
- Double red rotating effect, made by you for your Euro fire trucks
- Double blue rotating effect, made by you for your Euro fire trucks
- Several double red rotating effects with flashing lights on other places, not suitable for police cars, made by you    for American fire trucks
- Four smaller blue rotating effects, made by your for your European ambulance and fire van
- Double blue rotating effect (again), made by you for your Euro ladder unit
- Many flashing lights made by you for your American ambulances, not suitable for a police car

I tried putting your blue double light effect for the Euro regular fire truck (not ladder) on one of my police car re-skins, but they just rotated in thin air above the headlights so that told me that the location of the lights in relation to the vehicle as a whole means a lot... But what I'd like to do is find the red and blue rotating effect of the default police van and the red effect of the default fire truck, but I can't find either in all the SIMCITY dat files; I'd like to copy it over to a police car dat file and change its IID to the police car light effect IID...but then again, they probably won't work properly because they're made for tall vehicles (I have used PEG's single blue effect on quite a few police cars of mine, it works fine)

Anyway, my yellow fire trucks are tested and work fine, and they look good...but I don't have any new images, so until I can get the images, I can't upload them (and they are from your updated version)

[nerdly_dood]

Oh, you'll give me some light models if i ask? AWESOME!! Consider them requested!

You definitely have my permission to do some police car designs that I already have done.  That way, people can use my cars with your light models, with the actual car model based on the in-game luxury car model (according to Pegasus) or they could use your models, which in my opinion are A LOT better, because yours has 3D lights on top, while mine have them just 2D So go ahead and use mine, I have the pictures HERE so that you have some ideas. Also, since they are your car models (with ripptide's help), and you're just looking at my stuff for inspiration, you don't really need to give me credit.

Oh, and here's a picture of the light problem:

EDIT:  And I don't mean to invade your thread with updates of my own work, either, I know this is YOUR thread, but I think that the things relating to your own work should be mentioned.

[Swamper77]

Nerdly,

Thanks for your response. I'll go ahead with my cars, plus a few more paint schemes then. I didn't want to step on your toes by using your skins as a basis for mine.

I will get the model for dual lights for your cars made and sent to you either tonight or tomorrow night. They will be in a DAT file, and I will provide instructions on how to change the colors of the lights for the model. It just involves referencing the correct images from Maxis' files

I see what you mean by the lights now. The lights I model are modeled on a per vehicle basis, meaning they really aren't usable with any other vehicles. Sorry.
The Maxis police van's rotating lights model is located in the SimCity_1.dat file with Instance ID 0x108C0003.

As for the lights appearing as they did during your test, the rotating light models are modeled for the vehicle they are appearing with. You just can't simply copy the rotating light model from one emergency vehicle to another in most cases. That is why all of mine are modeled specifically for each vehicle or type of vehicle. If you want, I can modify some rotating light models for you for your project, so you can have the lights that you need.


-Jan

[nerdly_dood]

AWESOME!

Thanks a lot! And I don't mean to hog your thread, either, I know this is for you to show and tell about your creations, not to help me make my stuff better, but still, thanks!

EDIT: My yellow fire trucks are on the STEX now.

[nerdly_dood]

RE: The light models you sent me.

I have recently discovered a WHITE light model! I figured that since I just take the IID of the light model that I want to change to whatever color, I could change it to the IID of the Maxis headlight model, and it worked! I just make a quick test model police car, nothing special just black and white with POLICE on the doors and, of course, red and white lights on top:



I have attached the police car just in case you want to see it for yourself.

Also, I would like to inform you that I intend to create a white fire truck re-skin, and also with this light model you sent me, I would like to release a set of all the American fire trucks, red, yellow, and white, each with blue, red and blue, and red and white lights. (And probably the little orange rural truck I released as a separate thing) I haven't started on any of the new fire truck mods that I intend to do. Do you approve?

[Swamper77]

Nerdly,

I don't mind if you change the body paint or make the main light bar with blue lights. However, I don't want to revisit the models for the rotating lights just to make it so you can do two-color light bars. The creation of the animated models was a pain to do the first time, and I really don't want to do that again.

-Jan

[nerdly_dood]

Right, I looked at the files in the Reader this morning...and all the rotating effects were in a single S3D subfile... so no light color changes, I don't want to make you have to do any extra work, you probably have plenty to do with making the police cars and fire chief cars... (It's an American fire truck pack, and if someone wants a blue-light fire truck, then you already have some made.  Also, blue-light fire trucks just seem un-American, and white-light fire trucks are just...nonexistent.)

EDIT: I have FINALLY figured out how to replace FSH files that aren't attached to a PNG file! Which means that I have become able now to re-skin your EMT-EMS ambulances (as well as the Maxis one, but who cares about that one?), and to turn them into police vans with some IID tweaking. I haven't actually made an ambulance re-skin, but here is my preliminary police van re-skin (showing that I correctly changed the IIDs of the night lights):

I also borrowed the side image from your ambulances, and changed the IID to 0x108c0007, but left it totally blank. I figured that it's kinda small anyway, and also there's that blue stripe behind it, so whatever text is there won't show up real well. (The star isn't the side-image overlay, but it's there if I need it)

Also, re: your light effects, they don't show up well with the ambulances or the police vans, their model seem to be set too close to the ambulance's model. In the front they don't really show up at all, and in the back they alternate between something like these two images:

I don't mean to give you extra work to fix the lights, either...it's just what they look like on my computer.

I also used the light models you gave me for my police cars on my [very bad] Maxis ambulance re-skin, and so naturally they were in the middle and too low:


EDIT AGAIN: I figured I should attach the police van just in case you wanted to examine its inner workings.

ANOTHER EDIT: The light problem is only with the ambulances, the flashing light models work fine on your fire trucks, here is a pic using my orange re-skin:
Okay, so I didn't put it on my flash drive... But the light models work fine on the fire trucks, so I think it's restricted to the ambulances. (I don't know if the ones without blue lights have the same problem)

[Swamper77]

I'll re-align the planes for the lights again. Every time I fix them, they look fine in GMAX, but get lost in the model in the game. The headlight models look fine though

EDIT: I fixed the EMT Ambulances graphic display for the flashing lights. I set the flags for the graphics wrong on all of them They are now fixed, and I added some missing information to the Readme file. A block of text for one of the files was missing. Sorry about all of the problems.

[nerdly_dood]

i like this new thread thing, it was like I was invading your main thread and I didn't like that feeling... And thanks for fixing the ambulance model. (It looked fine in-game for about an hour when I had just gotten it, and then it looked like I showed above)

So, current developments... I have made a mod from a yellow light model in SW77 Automata Essentials that replaces ANY AND ALL blue light models based on the light model 0x108c0002 with a light model that is closer in appearance and size to the original Maxis model.  It looks too bright ATM, so it will require some tweaking before I can release it.

Also, I have used the same light model to make a white light model that more closely resembles the Maxis red light. It also is too bright, but before I can release it, I will need a police car to put it on, so if you can find a picture of a RL police car with red and white lights, show it to me so I have something to use it for...

EDIT: Just so we don't have a conflicting IID, the white lighe model has the IID 0x10690006.  (The blue light effect WAS 0x10690005 because I figured it would be easy to just +1 to your yellow light's IID but then I figured that it would be even better to just replace all the blue lights)

BTW, anything that is not related directly to SW77's work will be found in my regular development thread in the BLaM Creations board.

EDIT AGAIN: And about these fire support vehicles... You do know that I'll just make them into a police car mod, don't you? Whether or not you already have your own police models ready for release... I'll have my mod ready in about an hour or so, not counting the time it takes to make sure it works in-game. (The Jeep will likely replace the in-game police van)

And how exactly do you make additionals? Do they have a certain IID range, or what?

[Swamper77]

Nerdly,

I have police models ready and running on my systems. I just haven't released them yet. So I'm going to ask that you hold off on releasing your versions for the time being, at least until I get mine uploaded.

As for the yellow light, I think you are confusing "model" with "texture" as it is just a simple FSH image that I created from Maxis' red light graphic. All I did was change the hue of the image from red to yellow. I also have a fix for the Maxis blue light FSH image, but I have not released it publicly.

To make a vehicle an additional, I give the models and images their own IIDs so they are unique, at least from the game's perspective of loading files. I have various ranges of IIDs that I use for my projects. All of my IIDs are documented in a huge .txt file on my systems. I can give you a range for your products so they don't conflict with anything.

-Jan

[nerdly_dood]

Bah, same difference, model, texture... they both do the same thing. [/sarcasm] I know it's technically a texture, but i'm stuck on calling any light-related thing, FSH or S3D, a model... I should stop.

And about the additional stuff, I think I could do with an IID range... but what I'd like to know is how exactly one goes about defining a model as an additional...say, fire truck, for instance.

EDIT: The ambulance lights are much better now, thanks

And about the new fire support vehicles... Not only are they not available when I have a fire station plopped, NOTHING is available no matter what I have plopped when I have them in my plugins folder. Okay, so I needed to re-download your Automata Essentials...so it WAS updated... (Of less importance - I re-skinned the Jeep so that is has a red stripe on the side before I even tested it, but that wasn't the one I used that killed all my UDI cars, that was your original)

EDIT AGAIN: And BTW, I downloaded your hotel vans from the STEX to murder I mean, re-skin them... (Cause Roanoke police don't have box vans or the high-top European-type vans, they have plain ol' Chevrolet Express vans with blue V lights on top)

Also, I would be interested to know if you get all your models from Ripptide, or if you make them yourself, or if you have a download website? Of course, there is the possibility of making my own models... (I cannot use BAT because my laptop cannot run SC4 and my desktop can't use GMAX or 3DS-Max, in addition to lacking internet access) Cause I'm looking to make an 80s-style American ambulance, basically a Ford E-series van with the extended top with a little cutout for some red lights, like this:

Blacksburg, VA police also use this type of van. Hey, ya know, I could even make something like this into an American fire van like your European one...

Possibly unnecessary summary of police vans: Roanoke county police uses the box model, Roanoke city police uses a plain Chevy Express van, Blacksburg uses the extended top E-350 van. All of their rescue squads use box-type ambulances.

I'm looking for modeling programs, and I haven't found any suitable tutorials. I'm reasonably sure that Gmax isn't suitable for SC4 automata modeling, and all the stuff for 3DS-Max is confusing - the prices I've seen range from a free 30-day trial, to $1.99, up to about $3,500 or so... so what program do you use/would you recommend? Swat-Medic sent me a link to Blender.org and I downloaded it (it's an opensource 3D modeling program) but I haven't the faintest idea how to use it...

[/rambling]

A FEW DAYS LATER: No new information about the 3D programs except that Blender isn't compatible with 3DS files.

About The Shipley's Donut van by MikeSeith included in DaddyO's Shipley's Donut Shop or something like that on the STEX... FiSHMan insists on taking the lefthand edge of whatever color I put on the top (like a light bar for example) and turning it grayscale. (And the roof part of the FSH is very narrow, so even just 1 pixel turned grayscale is about 20% of the lights' width!)

I tried your fire vehicles in-game with the updated Automata Essentials, and they worked fine.

Now I'm making for my own use, meaning that I don't intend to release it, a blue-lights American fire vehicles pack, including the custom light models like the ones on your EMT-EMS ambulances being turned blue. The ambulances I'm using are your EMT-EMS ambulances with an added yellow stripe and blue and yellow lights instead of red and white. I haven't decided what I'll do for my police van or police car, though, but I'll choose my police car first so that I know how to make whatever police van I use. (It'll probably be the same model as your Euro ambulance) This blue-light change affects rescue units 1 and 2, pumper unit 1 (pumper 2 was only in RT's prop pack, i see), the ladder unit, the rural fire unit, and the fire chief's Jeep (which actually is the one I put the red stripe on) but NOT your fire chief's Crown Vic'. And now that I think of it, I could probably use your Jeep as my police van with an appropriate re-skin job... (Only until you release your police vehicles pack)

[Swamper77]

Quite the edits there I'll try to answer your questions the best I can:

To make a vehicle an additional, the models, FSH images, and Exemplar files all need to have unique IID's. Additional vehicles usually do not have icons, as you may have noticed with my files. If the vehicle is part of an existing "class" (fire truck, police car, etc.), I don't give them icons as the existing vehicles will have the icons. Now, if it is an additional vehicle, but for a specific purpose, then I give them icons (fire support Jeep Cherokee, fire chief's car).

I can give you a range of IID's to use. I'll need a day or two to work out an available range that will not conflict with existing IID's. I will give the range to you via PM when I am ready.
Hotel Vans
The hotel shuttle vans are set as additional taxis, but you are more than welcome to borrow the van model. I simply borrowed Maxis' "Beater Van" model that is used for the "Getaway Van" and a normal civilian vehicle when I made all 16 or so hotel shuttle vans. I don't have any templates for editing the van skin, so you are on your own with that. Sorry

BTW, your image for the police van is not showing.
Vehicle Models
Almost all of my emergency vehicle models came from Ripptide. He converted them from .MAX to .3DS so I could work with them. I have made some modifications to his vehicles, which result in new vehicles such as taxis and police Crown Victorias. I also have some people that give me models at my request, within the BSC. Usually, these folks just hand me a GMAX or .3DS model via email or a link of some sort. From there, I just handle the conversion process as I have a fully detailed model.

I do have a site that I download .3DS vehicle models from: ArchiDom. I download 3DS versions of the models and then import them into GMAX to work with them. It is time consuming to take a detailed model and convert it to a low-poly automata model while trying to retain the details.

The only vehicle models I have modeled myself, from scratch, are the semis that are part of SimGoober's drinks factories. I modeled the Volvo GlobeTrotter XL cab from a set of reference photos I found online and I modeled the trailer based on a beverage trailer from 18 Wheels of Steel. I had the game running on one computer while I modeled it on another.
Modeling Programs
I do all of my automata modeling in GMAX/BAT. I have a custom export script that I use to get the automata models out without using the BAT exporter. However, the export script exports models in a format that is unusable by the Reader. Using GMAX and my methods for conversion to SC4 are considered "Advanced" modding and not recommended for beginners or intermediates, unless they have a firm grasp of GMAX and the Reader.

Some day, I will write a complete tutorial on how I do my conversions with GMAX and my programs that I use. The main problem is that I hate having to take screen shots of each step and host them somewhere online. I have places that I upload photos to, it just takes awhile to upload large volumes of them. I prefer just making text tutorials, but most people don't seem to be able to understand the ones that have shipped with my Developer Kits, so I have stopped releasing the Developer Kits.

-Jan