Nealos101's BAT Projects

Nealos101 · February 27, 2007, 07:57:19 AM

Hey everyone!

You may remember me from Simtropolis with creations such as... CJ San Portello - Like California But Different and SD St Albet's Park; A diary of a Policeman, but some of you may actually recall me as being the (second) person to take on BATing Las Vegas style Casinos...

I post this topic here today in aspiration of improving those Casinos and *hopefully* getting them on to the LEX, STEX and maybe the SIMPEG Exchange. But I need your help...

The Georgetown, Georgetown Casino... I loved that project, however the major problem with that was it was so damn LARGE...

Castle, Castle... This is one of my best, and I have already talked to Jeronji about this one and greatfully and appreciatedly he gave me some ideas on improving it. If you think you have ideas on improving it please share!!

*Shiver* Neyorka Bay... I loved this project too but it was daunting and full of errors and horrible, confusing holes. I know what I need to do to improve on this, but any suggestions from you would be greatly appreciated!!

SGM... My first little child and therefore my first thing that I shall update. I really need some info on how to improve this one guys.

Any comments/suggestions/queries welcome and in order to upload to the LEX I accept handing it over to some one else/juristiction, and gratefully and proudly accept your hospitality and critism. I shall not upload any new versions to the STEX until it is approved by you guys for the LEX... So long as you guys are happy me uploading to the STEX once it is up on the LEX? It up to you... But that is my promise either way...

This is more of a plea for help so I can then ask you to upload these things... Rather than ask to upload them...

Oh and Jeronji thanks for everything! I adore your work and your understanding!!!

Nealos101.

P.S. Sorry if I don't have anything at the BETA stage X-P, if this is in the wrong section ask and I shall move it... Or how it goes?

jeronij · February 27, 2007, 09:39:01 AM

Welcome Nealos, glad to see you here

Impatiently waiting for these BETA stage pics...

Nealos101 · February 27, 2007, 09:55:47 AM

Thanks Jeronji!

BETA pictures? Hmmm... I'm not too sure on complete BETA pictures but how about partially BETA complete pictures?

What do you and others think I should add/improve in your opinions?

Day

Night

Detail (Really - This is how much sweat and hard work I'm putting in for this newer version... The one thing I didn't really like was the roof... So I improved that problem

.)

Shall post more as I go along or if somebody has an idea...

Nealos101.

joelevan · February 27, 2007, 10:16:01 AM

Do you have pictures of the RL models you are basing these off of? That would help me a bit make suggestions.

Nealos101 · February 27, 2007, 10:21:16 AM

MGM - Daytime

Google Earth of the Roof

Night time

Please note Im not basing these models off of the casinos directly, but would like to keep thier original shape and basic idea...

joelevan · February 27, 2007, 10:55:54 AM

Okay! I see now. I like the lattice in your newest version, but I don't like the ladder running down the middle. The lattice is a HUGE improvement though over your original. I think that lighting is going to be your key on these projects. Las Vegas isn't so visually impressive during the day, but at night it is a TOTALLY different town. In my opinion this might be the way to think about these projects. As you build think about how you want to light your buildings. Let me think a little more and I will post other suggestions. In general I do LOVE your stuff though. I go to Vegas about once a month and I always felt that SC4 was lacking in the casino arena!

Nealos101 · February 27, 2007, 04:30:01 PM

Schweeeeeet! Thanks joelevan!!

The lattice wasn't so bad once I got passed the harder parts and dealing with the details under the lattice itself. The ladder does look odd in that picture doesn't it; but I'm really not that sure if it is a ladder, becuase on the MGM it looks like some kind of maintance machine track... Hmmm?

Anyways by the time I read your reply I had already got as far as I am about to show you, and don't know if I should remove the ladder now... And yes the lighting has to be sweet becuase I know as well Vegas transforms entirely at night, the first Casino captured that well personally... I may do the same thing - Will have to see as I progress.

Here are the second pictures...

Day - As you can see the highest part of the roof is pretty much finished and all I really need to do now is complete the stepping part of the SGM, and then add the detailing (Which shouldn't take too long).

Night - This is getting cool just sitting at my computer, I'm still trying to decide if to keep it just like this or add the green lighting anyway... What do you suggest?

Day Detail - I couldn't resist but put the MGM Grand logo on somewhere man... How does the detailing look?

Night Detail - Not much difference, except you can see the 'anomaly' more easier. (Missing roof piece lol) Howzat look?

Honest that is it for me, currently it is 12:26 am over here in England and I have a lecture at 9 AM today

However, overall I have done a heck of alot of work for about five hours... And I'm satisfied at this point

.

Take care now, and shall reply to your posts tomorrow!

Nealos101

joelevan · February 27, 2007, 05:13:06 PM

Fair enough. I actually like what you have. The lighting is what is going to make or break this BAT. I really liked much of the lighting on your original production. That little SMG Grand sign needs to light up too. This is a casino...it is all about wonder and imagination!

Joel

Yoder7652 · February 27, 2007, 07:47:07 PM

hey Nealos...glad to see you've made it over here and are revising a few of your works. hopefully we can get some more folks here to comment on your projects.

A few initial comments...the pattern of the windows doesn't quite look right, its too repetitive. might I suggest that you select all of the window rectangles on a wall and then group them, add a map and texture that stretches over all of the rectangles, then you can ungroup them and the texture will remain stretched out over all of the rectangles, this will give the appearance of a whole reflective surface that seems to be more in keeping with the original building (like the first real pic you posted with the clouds), I have a texture you can use if you would like me to post it.

the green texture doesn't look right either, it is too harsh, maybe something more seagreen and metalic-looking would be better...again I might have an example.

I'm also curious about scale...you lots in the past have been larger than I think is realistic for the game, so I'm wondering how many tiles your current structure might take up. Your modeling on the roof is definately an improvement! I really like the lattice that your doing....roofs are so crucial since this is mostly what you see from the bird's eye view of SC4.

As for nightlighting...I might suggest randomnly changing the intensity of the windows so that they are not all of the same brightness. You can do this in Gmax by selecting the windows you want and then checking (under the bat rollout, parameters, night windows, selection) enable box and then setting the intensity. I thing you should do windows with .8, .6, and maybe .4 for variety. I'm not sure I'd go with 1 since it seems so bright, but maybe it will be ok to use if you have other variation with the other numbers. I too liked the look you were going for with the nightlighting of your original bat and think you should try to recreate that sort of feel with omnis (in addition to lighting up the windows).

well that is it for me, I'll keep an eye out for more!

Nealos101 · February 28, 2007, 03:38:47 AM

Nealos...glad to see you've made it over here and are revising a few of your works. hopefully we can get some more folks here to comment on your projects.

Thanks yoder, I'm glad you and a few others have already have and I really do appreciate your comments and ideas!

A few initial comments...the pattern of the windows doesn't quite look right, its too repetitive. might I suggest that you select all of the window rectangles on a wall and then group them, add a map and texture that stretches over all of the rectangles, then you can ungroup them and the texture will remain stretched out over all of the rectangles, this will give the appearance of a whole reflective surface that seems to be more in keeping with the original building (like the first real pic you posted with the clouds), I have a texture you can use if you would like me to post it.

I could find one, but what do you mean place a map and a texture? I could add the texture and use a UVW Map to stretch the texture across the whole set of windows, and I was thinking of aligning it so that the windows behind the shadow don't have that texture (If that is what you meant in the first place

) If you have a texture in mind yes please show me as it could be of some use? (You shall get credit of course lol)

the green texture doesn't look right either, it is too harsh, maybe something more seagreen and metalic-looking would be better...again I might have an example.

I have to agree with you, after completing the whole model (Well, relativly), I noticed that the green texture looks out of place compared the the MGM Casino. Again, an example would be excellent if you do have one?

I'm also curious about scale...your lots in the past have been larger than I think is realistic for the game, so I'm wondering how many tiles your current structure might take up. Your modeling on the roof is definately an improvement! I really like the lattice that your doing....roofs are so crucial since this is mostly what you see from the bird's eye view of SC4.

The scale? To start with I make it as accurate as I possibly can, and yes in-game this thing will probably be massive. But me being cruicial and very patient I shall worry about that later - I'll get this monstrous cross-hotel-complex sorted and will render it, and them put it on a lot and see what I have to work with. I shall then see about scaling it with your ideas/comments. And yes I agree with you about the roof - That is where I really lost points with SGM Version 1 and basically every other Casino (Except maybe Castle, Castle?) And I lost points with "dependancies", but I won't really worry about that for now until I have the thing scaled and ready to be lotted.

As for nightlighting...I might suggest randomnly changing the intensity of the windows so that they are not all of the same brightness. You can do this in Gmax by selecting the windows you want and then checking (under the bat rollout, parameters, night windows, selection) enable box and then setting the intensity. I thing you should do windows with .8, .6, and maybe .4 for variety. I'm not sure I'd go with 1 since it seems so bright, but maybe it will be ok to use if you have other variation with the other numbers. I too liked the look you were going for with the nightlighting of your original bat and think you should try to recreate that sort of feel with omnis (in addition to lighting up the windows).

WHAT? You can do THAT??? After all this time I thought I couldn't lmao - I'll get straight on it, change the intensity of the windows... With the lighting for Version 1 yes that was a good effect, and it actually wasn't Omni's - It was spotlights lol. But yes I'll try omni's and probably a spotlight for the MGM Signs on the sides.

Fair enough. I actually like what you have. The lighting is what is going to make or break this BAT. I really liked much of the lighting on your original production. That little SMG Grand sign needs to light up too. This is a casino...it is all about wonder and imagination!

You hit the spot Joel, right bang in the middle... You deserve a good credit reference for that...

I'll put up some development pictures when I have some development... lol.

Nealos101

Nealos101 · February 28, 2007, 05:39:48 AM

Sorry for double post, but what do you think of...

Day

Night

...These?

IMO it looks much better, at the time of the preview I have not gotten around to sorting the window lighting, but once every piece of glass is fixed and with the reflection, then I shall bring it up to scratch. Yoder; you are a legend my friend, your name shall be involved with the final description and of course any reference you would like... lol.

Nealos101

joelevan · February 28, 2007, 07:28:45 AM

The daylight picture...YES, YES, YES! The cloud reflection is PERFECT! This is MUCH improved over your original. And the colors you chose are VERY nice. This is a building I WANT in MY city!

The nighttime picture - I am still not feeling it. Your night picture looks rather dead. Look at your picture of the real life MGM. You don't see the lights in the windows. In most casino/hotels in Vegas you don't see the lights in the individual windows because the building itself is one big neon light. I do really like the lighting on your 'stairsteps' down the one side of the building.

I have to TECHNICALLY agree about the problem with the scale, but part of the illusion of Vegas is that the casinos LOOK bigger then they really are. I personally don't have an issue with the size, but I can see a good argument for having it scaled down a bit smaller.

All-in-all this building is going to be AWESOME! Nice work.

Joel

Yoder7652 · February 28, 2007, 08:15:30 AM

I like the day preview much better

The reflection of the clouds on the window is very nice touch and I like the new "green" used on the building...this seems more representative of the pictures you posted above.

Nealos101 · February 28, 2007, 08:42:20 AM

joelevan

The nighttime picture - I am still not feeling it. Your night picture looks rather dead. Look at your picture of the real life MGM. You don't see the lights in the windows. In most casino/hotels in Vegas you don't see the lights in the individual windows because the building itself is one big neon light. I do really like the lighting on your 'stairsteps' down the one side of the building.

That was just a working picture trying to compare the darkness of the windows against the reflection... It was in NO way what I want it to look like. Yes, I'll put on Neons and touch up that steps-like thing... It's coming... Trust me...

I have to TECHNICALLY agree about the problem with the scale, but part of the illusion of Vegas is that the casinos LOOK bigger then they really are. I personally don't have an issue with the size, but I can see a good argument for having it scaled down a bit smaller.

Exactly mine and yoder's point; In SC4 that massiveness is easier to obtain than making it realistically-sized, and the lot sizes can be limited... I think? We'll see when I have this part rendered so I can compare it...

Yoder7652

I like the day preview much better The reflection of the clouds on the window is very nice touch and I like the new "green" used on the building...this seems more representative of the pictures you posted above.

Thanks, and couldn't really have done it without you or joe's input! We'll see how the nightlighting goes soon...

Day - Complete Model (Not lighted properly yet)

Day Detail - You see them? Yes? Those are my first sims! lol.

Day Detail 2 - Roof Services, all good?

Joe, Yoder, thanks again... And the next picture I post I promise it will look like a real Vegas-Quality Casino...

Nealos101.

jeronij · February 28, 2007, 08:57:27 AM

I am really positively impressed by the development of this baby

.
Oh, and I love the real scale in the game, even if it does not really fit with Maxis stuff, it makes the cities look much more real. Do you remember the original Maxis seaport for instance

? Would you call this realistic and scaled

?

joelevan · February 28, 2007, 09:48:18 AM

I think the chairs and things on the 'steps' are too much, but only because I don't see anyway for the Sims to get out to them. No doors, no guardrails, etc. I DO like it on the last 'step' though as there is a door. And I like the more industrial 'roof junk' that you added to the tail end of the 'steps'. I think it is more realistic.

And the more I look at the daylight version the more I like it. Having the clouds reflected on the building is SUCH a nice touch. And the color is just perfect!

Joel

BarbyW · February 28, 2007, 01:03:27 PM

Nealos, can you resize your pictures please, down to max 800x600? These are well over size.

Nealos101 · February 28, 2007, 01:27:14 PM

jeronji

I am really positively impressed by the development of this baby .
Oh, and I love the real scale in the game, even if it does not really fit with Maxis stuff, it makes the cities look much more real. Do you remember the original Maxis seaport for instance ? Would you call this realistic and scaled ?

Well... You're right... I couldn't get it to Maxis scale anyway, but hopefully it is close lol.

joelevan

I think the chairs and things on the 'steps' are too much, but only because I don't see anyway for the Sims to get out to them. No doors, no guardrails, etc. I DO like it on the last 'step' though as there is a door. And I like the more industrial 'roof junk' that you added to the tail end of the 'steps'. I think it is more realistic.

I figured that too... But problem solved!

barbw

Nealos, can you resize your pictures please, down to max 800x600? These are well over size.

Oh dear... Sorry. I'll see what I can do - How are these?

Day - Final?

Night - BETA?

Day Detail - Handrails and Doorways...

At this point I can say I can render, however, if you guys feel that there is something wrong/too much of, please say and I'll look into it...

For now though I'll either take care of my RLS or begin with the MISC. Props for the Casino/s.

Nealos101

BarbyW · February 28, 2007, 01:38:50 PM

Thanks, Nealos. They are much better. I look forward to seeing your lot for this.

Yoder7652 · February 28, 2007, 02:11:43 PM

I assume on the nightlighting, you are going to ease up on the brightness of the spots? I think the day shot looks good and has nice detail. I look forward to the casino.