dedgren's MIS-RHW Meanderings

[dedgren]

As many folks know, I think the RHW along with the MIS (Modular Interchange System) is going to make the "game" highways obsolete, except for perhaps in very dense urban areas where freeways are commonly median-free with a Jersey barrier divider.

That said, both the RHW and MIS, through no fault of their development folks...

...I am not worthy! I am not worthy!...

...are still very basic.  As I am doing a lot of experimenting with the RHW/MIS in 3RR, thought I'd start this thread to promote some discussion about this great addition to SC4, and to perhaps raise the profile a bit of the in-game triumphs and tragedies encountered in the wild, so to speak.  I'd also like to float a few ideas for some additional pieces that I think are needed pretty urgently.

I'll do just a thing or two at a time every few days, so we can see how discussion develops.  Please don't hesitate to post your in-game pics in this thread- I'm sure that others have figured out stuff I haven't.

* * *

I'll start with bridges.  The RHW currently has none.  I've been looking at alternatives: the top one is RHW-4 and ground highway, the bottom RHW-4 and one-way roads with the arrows suppressed.



I know which one I like...

* * *

We have what appears to be a glitch at the end of a MIS ramp.  Here's a diamond interchange ramp created in a 3RR quad.  Note the nice circled intersection with the road (that said, I could do without the crosswalks).



Now, exit that quad and start the 3RR testbed for the short MIS ramp tutorial I did last night [linkie]. 



I don't see why I would have wound up with something different.  Anyone have any insight on this?

Later.


David

[Pat]

hmm David that is wierd indeed you shouldnt have ended up with something diffrent from a save to a re-enter??? I wonder though that the intersections should almost look like soo...



as you see I have the same intersection as you do in the second one.... Sorry If I wasnt to much of more insight at all on this...

[jplumbley]

David, I think that issue is because Tarkus *may* have inputted the wrong texture for that Zoom by mistake.

[Tarkus]

Actually, David, it looks like the issue you ran into there is that the RULs for the MIS/Road intersections (both T and +) require one completely orthogonal tile before the intersection, in order for the override to initiate.  It appears you have half of an Orthogonal-Diagonal transition piece before the intersection, and since there are no RULs in place to override a Road intersection after the Orth-Diag transition, it is reverting to the RHW-2 textures. 

The same thing is actually happening in Pat's pic as well, as there's an Avenue/RHW-2 intersection showing, instead of an Avenue/MIS intersection.

I will fix that issue in Version 21.   Thanks for pointing it out!

And by the way, great thread idea!

-Alex (Tarkus)

[dedgren]

Alex (Tarkus)- you appear to be absolutely correct.  Move back a gridsquare, problem gone!

* * *

I finally figured out the fundamental purpose of the RHW...



Too bad lakeyboy is nowhere to be found.


David

[Pat]

*scratches head and wonders what is going on???*

[j-dub]

Yes, I wonder what intersesting stuff he (Lakeyboy) could of done with the networks if he still was around.  David, did you mean to do that conversion without the wall, and having the dual 2 lanes there? I bet that could work with the rhw 4 puzzle piece between the gentle s curve and ground highway to correct the lane usage, it might require deleting the pieces of ghw at the end.

Warning! Edited Image!

[Haljackey]

My my....  Why didn't I see this thread earlier?
(mainly because I didn't know the NAM board split into different sections.  I've been just viewing the NAM creations,)

Anyways dedgren and pat, I do have a solution to your MIS intersection problems.  I posted a quick guide to help out a member at ST about tight curves, but it can also apply to close intersections. I can post it here to help you two out with this problem!

How to Make Tighter Curves along the RHW-MIS: A Basic Guide

1.  Construct a RHW and an overpass:


2.  Build your MIS system.  I will construct a B2 parclo interchange for a simple example.  As you curve your MIS, you will notice this to happen:


3.  Its okay!  Let the RHW-2 build instead of the MIS.


4.  The RHW-2 needs to be overwritten to reestablish itself to a MIS.  Construct another ramp away from the rest of the interchange:


5.  Join the new MIS segment with the RHW-2.  A full MIS ramp should now appear.


6.  Delete the ramp:


7.  Extend the MIS to intersect with your road/avenue.  You now have a tight, fully functional ramp!


9.  Do the same for the remaining loop ramp.


10.  Construct your remaining strait ramps to complete the interchange. (picture rotated 90 degrees to show the entire interchange)


There you go!  A Parclo B-2 Interchange with tighter loop ramps!

Here is an example of a Parclo A-4 interchange with both the tight loop ramps and the close intersections:


Full Resolution Link (to see the picture more closely.)

If you do like this concept, I could make a more formal guide similar to the one I made for the Multi-RHW if you think its useful.



Anyways, I hope this helps you out.  My knowledge of the RHW network grows everyday, and I have found out that you can do quite a lot more with the RHW than you think.  Just let me know if you have any more problems with the current version and I will do what I can to help.
-However, I am no modder, and that means I can't help with the bridges or similar limitations.  Using a highway or avenue works for me right now, and can look quite good if blended well.

Some useful links for more examples:
-Show Us Your Interchanges! (try the latest pages):  http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=89089
-My City Journal is also full of them: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=95625

Best,
-Haljackey

[threestooges]

Very interesting thread. What's been posted so far is interesting, but particularly interesting is Haljackey's post. That's an interesting override and I'll have to give that a shot when the moment comes up.

In regard to the bridge thing, I would be happy to make some models (if you have a particular design in mind that would make things easier). There are however, as few potential issues:
-As far as I am aware, there are no exemplars in the NAM bridge controller for RHW bridges. I know that they have managed to create GLR bridges so I think RHW may be possible
-Second, if you could send me the textures for the basic RHW piece
-Third, since I am not sure if there is a way to access game bridges, all RHW bridges may have to be made from scratch.

If anyone has any information on the possibility of RHW bridges, or on the three issues above, please let me know, as this could be an interesting addition to the game.
-Matt

[Tarkus]

Haljackey, nice tutorial there!  That actually gives me an idea for some additional coding for the MIS, so as to make that sort of thing easier with the next version . . . 

Matt (threestooges), thanks for offering to help out with RHW bridges!  That would be absolutely fantastic. 

To answer your questions, RHW bridges are indeed physically possible to do in-game with the proper entries to the Bridge Controller.  I've actually managed to get plain RHW bridges (both RHW-2 and RHW-4) more or less functional, though I am having to find some "workarounds" with the End Pieces for the RHW-4 (which is why they haven't been released yet).  I more or less just took the existing Plain Bridge Model from the NAM and was able to re-texture it in the Reader.

And as far as the textures go, here's the PNGs for the RHW-2 and RHW-4 from the new RHW texture set (which will be used in the next version).

RHW-2

RHW-4

-Alex (Tarkus)

[Pat]

Very good tut there Hal and Alex those new textures lookin sweet!!!

[j-dub]

Haljackey, thats a very good idea, and discovery. I bet it would be more use to people when they find your guide. I'm tempted to try looping the MIS like that. And Tarkus, thanks for sharing so far.

[Haljackey]

Thanks everyone!

I bet this one will play with your head.  Both a tight loop and a tight ramp:


Of course, this picture is just to show you the flexibility of the MIS.  If engineers made something like this in RL, they may have made a mistake. 

Best,
-Haljackey

[Shadow Assassin]

Erm... don't they both go the same way?

[Tarkus]

Of course, this picture is just to show you the flexibility of the MIS.  If engineers made something like this in RL, they may have made a mistake. 

Tell that one to the Oregon Department of Transportation.

(click to go directly to Google Maps)


That's the interchange with Interstate 5 and North Lombard Street (US 30 Bypass) in Portland, Oregon.  Seems to be some sort of 6-ramp Parclo that's been modified to a 4-ramp limited access setup. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

[Glazert]

Haljackey: that is a neat trick using another RHW ramp to overwrite the RHW-2 to reestablish itself as a MIS, and then deleting the ramp when the MIS is established. However, there is a way of getting MIS tight curves without using and then deleting another ramp. You just need to think "backwards".

Start the curve in in the usual way:




Then instead of trying to draw a diagonal line from the MIS, start by drawing it towards the MIS. At this stage it looks like a RHW-2:




Continue drawing towards the MIS. It should automatically connect and revert to MIS:




It may take a bit of practice to draw the line in just the right position. Remember, think backwards!

Edit:
Actually, with a bit of experimentation, it is quite possible to draw tight curves the right way, not backwards. YTou just have to get the bend in the right place.

[ardecila]

I don't think it is possible.  Try eliminating that one straight tile in the bending ramp, between the two curved tiles.  It can't be done in a logical fashion.

[Glazert]

Yes, I can see now that Haljackey's use of the second RWH ramp enables curves one tile tighter that you can get just drawing.

Edit: And Haljackey's trick also works if you use the RHW-6S  to RHW-4  transition with RHW-4 ramp piece when you are using RHW-4 as a double-width MIS.

[Haljackey]

Tarkus: Ah, but there is no intersection on the roadway there, thus cars will not have head-on collisions.  Still looks weird though...

Glazert:  This concept can be applied to all ramp types. 

[Glazert]

Glazert:  This concept can be applied to all ramp types. 

And not just ramp types. Something similar can be done with the RHW-4 carriageways using RHW-4 starter pieces. Of course it might be thought a bit of a sharp bend for an RHW other than a ramp, but it could be used for hairpin bends if needed.