Hi, I have been fixing some of the Maxis bridges. The process is extremely tedious, and I would like some feedback to find if it is worth doing.
Here is the Maxis Under Truss Highway bridge, with the original Maxis version on the left and the fixed version on the right. There are fixes to the end of the bridge (where bridge meets the highway on the ground), to the area under the bridge, to the bridge support column and to the bridge deck texture.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FGHWUnderTrussFix.jpg&hash=ea3548e8de56601faf5a47eab5e97250458d57de)
In the fixed version, the bridge deck now uses the same texture that is used in straight parts of the highway on the ground. Even the curved parts of the bridge use this texture. The bridge models refer to the original texture, so that any mod that changes the texture of the highways on the ground will also change the bridge deck.
Here is what fixed version of the bridge looks like when an asphalt highway mod is used. Also shown is a preliminary test of cable stayed bridge cables that light up at night (not photoshoped).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FGHWUnderTrussFix_Ash_LightedCable.jpg&hash=a4772cf369ac6f20bca7e7eb92986b4e8315dba8)
Unfortunately, the cables on a suspension bridge can not be lighted this way.
Is it worth doing this kind of thing?
Yes, that's something that I would like to see. Good job, Smoncrie! (I believe that the HRS texture mod will work too on these fixed bridges)
Not bad. =)
- Allan Kuan
Looks very good :thumbsup:
When are you publicing the mod?
It may be tedious, but it looks good. I'd say go for it, but then I'm not the one that has to edit them. They do look good though.
I agree - excellent work and well worth doing.
Excellent work, too ! it looks more realistic now. :thumbsup:
Looks great and it's definitely worth doing it :thumbsup:
The nightlighted cables are spectacular and I'm sure they'll become very popular ;)
Thanks every one!
I am glad you like it, but it really is a lot of work so any mod will probably be a long time coming, if I do more than one bridge. It is also slightly incompatible with the Bridge Height mod (the ground high bridge exemplar needs to be tweeked).
One of the difficulties of modifying Maxis bridges is that many of the models can not be changed using reader or datgen; if you try, the model is corrupted.
Previously I could only get around this by using a Hex editor to modify these models (e.g. the RHW Small Steel Arch bridge), but recently I worked out how to use reader to build models that look the same as the Maxis models, and that CAN be modified with reader. Basically I start almost from scratch, and copy the information from the Maxis models. The process is complicated and very time consuming. One bonus is that the resulting models can easily be used for variations of the bridge (e.g. Avenue).
To make the Under Truss bridge shown, I had to use this new technique on 60 S3Ds. I may be able to reduce the work needed per S3D, if there is a lot of similarity between them, but I have not investigated this yet.
The Under Truss bridge also required 10 Maxis textures to be fixed. As a side effect, the texture fixes improves ALL the different versions of Under Truss bridges (e.g. road, rail, etc.)
The new technique was needed because it allowed me to do the curved deck parts of the bridge; I could not do this with a Hex editor!
While the lighted cables are shiny, I don't really need that, since I rarely place highway bridges in cities (and in rural areas, they are usually not lit). The improved highway texture looks splendid, though, and I'd say it's definitely worth the huge amount of work. I always hated the sloppy job that Maxis did. If your mod is interfering with the bridge height mod, maybe you could include this functionality into your mod as well? I don't think that any serious player is using the game without this mod anyway.
I don't want to be a kill joy but normally these bridges don't have a continuous paving. According to their length they have at least 2 expansion joints at the supports - longer bridges may have them also in between the separate fields of the bridge.
From Zoom Level 1 you may not see them but Zoom level 5 is definately close enough for them to become visable.
Other than that I do like the new texture.
I think that they look great, and definitely match a lot better! &apls Ultimately , it's your call as by doing this, it will make the bridge height mod incompatible,and someone would need to spend possibly just as much time tweaking it.
Jayson
Quote from: smoncrie on July 13, 2009, 02:44:03 AM
One of the difficulties of modifying Maxis bridges is that many of the models can not be changed using reader or datgen; if you try, the model is corrupted.
i was just about to ask about this problem.....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi141.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr70%2Fchoco_028%2Fbridgesandbox-Mar29031247317479.png&hash=013d1e0b1aabb9101e68681003f51f55d39871bd)
i still can't grasp why its only a few of the models.....the others could be changed fine.
also, im not familiar with the bridge height mod....it sets the minimum height to zero? guess i should look into that since so many use it.
otherwise, i love this idea. :)
Quote from: Andreas on July 13, 2009, 03:16:29 AM
I don't think that any serious player is using the game without this mod anyway.
I play the game without that mod. &mmm
Unless its included in some other package. If not, it sounds like something I should get.
Smoncrie: This is superb! I can't wait to be rid of the hideous gaps between the bridge and the road, and the fact that the HRS Asphalt can appear somedat on my bridges makes me ever so happy!
Nardo69, At first I was going to leave the expansion joint as it is in the original Maxis version, but I realized that it would not be compatible with other highway textures; to have expansion joint one would need an expansion joint texture for each different highway texture mod.
This would probably be hard to do. In my experience it is very hard to get any change to work published by someone else. As an example: I contacted the author to make this change to a bridge:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FAkashi_Kaikyo_fixed.jpg&hash=35adf6208a7e7df4a15767fc7fb2bddaeb01155c)
The author was interested at first, but then lost interest.
Choco &
joelyboy911, the bridge height mod allows one to build Maxis bridges closer to the water, but not all the way down to it. It is a good mod, except that it has some texture errors for the cables in the long suspension highway bridge.
It used to be in the mods section at Simtopolis. I have been away for several months, and when I checked I found that Simtropolis has been re-organized. I don't know where it is now.
Quote from: choco on July 13, 2009, 04:17:34 AM
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Choco, Yes that is what usually happens when you corrupt a Maxis bridge model by modifying it with reader. (note: you can use reader to view it, copy it or change its ID, but you can not modify it) The problem usually occurs with the models that extend a long way down. These models are made of a very large number of parts, and my guess is that reader gets a memory overflow when you work on such complicated models.
I could use my new technique to make a version of the model that you can modify. Is it urgent?
joelyboy911, I thought might be interested in seeing another bridge from an earlier version of the mod.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FGHWBridgefix3.jpg&hash=65858e8c3d4e3a0940a2fb4f00a122ebaaae7926)
This earlier version was not complete and did not change deck textures. The ground highway bridge shadows from that mod were added to the NAM, but no other part of it has been published.
thanks again for all you knowledge, smoncrie! i was pulling my hair out thinking i was doing something wrong.....
i wouldn't say the small arch above is urgent....i was basically going over your past work trying to learn the intricacies of re-modding other bridges, and found this issue on the undertruss, level street, and small arch bridges.
alternatively: i know the RHW10 will be badly effected by the bridge height mod.....well, probably most of the RHW bridges. &mmm
Nice work!
It would be sweet if these were HRS compatible! :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FGHWUnderTrussFix_HRS.jpg&hash=eb045366110a08c9dfa68a9bd25e16906640942e)
Here is what the bridge looks like with HRS. In the previous picture I used an old highway texture mod. The bridge will automatically use whatever mod you have installed.
Choco, the bridge height mod only affects Maxis bridges. It contains copies of all the Maxis bridge exemplars, with (if I remember correctly) MinClearance set to zero.
I have that model 25% done. It does take a long time.
simply fantastic!
after having done some manual s3d editing, i truly appreciate this work to the fullest. its hard to sit and do such tedious work, let alone do it for multiple bridges.
thank you! :thumbsup:
insofar as the other model, just pass it along at your leisure. i have another 60 s3d's edit for the double-wides myself..... :'(
this looks like a must have, thankyou :)
Joe
When will this be released? I can't wait! Could you maybe re-vamp the NAM Ave bridge w/the hump in the middle? It looks hideous but I use it A LOT!
-Driftmaster: As smoncrie said, it's a slow process, so I don't think there is a definative date set yet. Along the lines of the NAM, it will be ready when it's ready. As for the NAM avenue thing, would you mind posting a pic of the issue you're referring to?
-Matt
I think he's referring to the raised avenue bridge , which I also use a lot , but don't really think it would fit into needing to be addressed like the others.
Jayson
smoncrie.. I love that shot with the expansion joint artwork.. excellent!
Yeah the Raised avenue bridge. It has OWR texture on it and it looks hideos!
Driftmaster07, yes the raised avenue bridge can be done, but it is likely this mod will take months.
SC4BOY, the expansion joint shown is part of the original Maxis bridge; it is not my work.
Here is a picture of the ground highway Level Bridge. This bridge has always used whatever highway texture mod is installed on its bridge deck. No mod is required by me or anyone else is required for this. This means that no more work is needed beyond that done in my earlier mod: Adjusting the bridge height and increasing the height of the sides to match the height used in ground highways.
Also shown is a one-way bridge. I did just enough work to get it to show at that zoom and angle.
The one-way bridge uses the translucent one-way arrow texture I have developed. The arrow texture is independent from the texture of the bridge deck. If desired, the arrows can be removed with a simple mod that makes the arrow texture 100% transparent.
Is adding the arrows worthwhile?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FGHWLevelBridgeFix.jpg&hash=0c2abf3b5230ab3a0ebe100ff373c8cb81072782)
For some people not (like me), but for other people, this can be usefull.
will this not be integrated into the NAM. if so, wont it beable to depend on the NAM arrow reduction mod?
Quote from: smoncrie on July 13, 2009, 01:10:29 AM
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Is it worth doing this kind of thing?
Oh yes, definitely. I love that lit cable stayed. Does the lighting come in "Argon Blue"? (Sample below)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fz.about.com%2Fd%2Fchemistry%2F1%2F0%2F7%2FQ%2Fargon1.jpg&hash=73bfc11f38114102c8b15bb35ce7f04c6cfa86ab)
I wish that it can come in multiple colors.
Generally I dislike gravedigging, but this is just too awesome to not comment on. smoncrie, wherever you've gone, best of luck to you modding the bridges!
I can't wait to see this finished, I can't stand the normal highways, and this will compliment my HRS sytems very well.
I have been away from SimCity 4 for nearly 1 ½ years. But I have done some work...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll299%2Fsmoncrie%2FModifiedBridges.jpg&hash=e06b42cafb300b88b86cb01a1a157488b413a85d)
It is very slow work, so a final release is not near, but I could release the bridges I have done.
The picture also shows a Flat tunnel under the bridges. I had thought that flat tunnels would now be common, but I don't see any reference in the LEX. If people don't know about flat tunnels, I shall say more.
Is a "flat tunnel" the same as using overhanging subway lots? If not, I think it's new (and please be fully functional).
The flat tunnel is fully functional and does not have the problems you get with using a subway. It is literally a "flat or flattened tunnel" and works like any tunnel, except that traffic stays on the surface. The vehicles do tend to fade out, though. Like any tunnel it can go under bridges, puzzle pieces and lots. Streets and RHW are more difficult because they don't have tunnels.
It comes in two parts: a permanent part, and a temporary part. To make a flat tunnel, you install the temporary part and then create the tunnel. The tunnel entrances are overhanging models that look like the transit network. You then save the city and remove the temporary part. When you reload the city the flat tunnel will still be there.
The biggest problems seem to be getting the ground leveled just right, and getting the models to match the grass near the tunnel entrances. With the models I made, the tunnels can be from 3 to 8 tiles long (excluding the entrances).
I heard about flat tunnels about 1 ½ years ago. If I remember correctly they were invented by dedgrin.
An interesting side effect is that animals can wander across the tunnel part of the road.
Hello where is download link ?
There is no download link, because this was never released.
-Alex
Well... It was an interesting topic... specially these flat tunnels, because as I see, with this way functional under bridge roads can be made. Was this method something similiar to the DBE? I mean it used temporary files too like the DBE...
Hm... it's so sad, that this project is dead... I guess there is no plan for this (would be way to much work and the Team is so shorthanded.... :( )
Bumping up old topics is usually not so nice, but at least sometimes it enlightens stuffs which has been never known...
- Tyberius
Tunnel placement is controlled by the Network Tuning Parameters Exemplars (one of which exists for each network). The DBE also modifies these same exemplars to get the flat slopes as part of its temporary files. Based on smoncrie's description, the file architecture was essentially the same. I believe dedgren's initial research into the flat tunnels is probably tucked away in Three Rivers Region somewhere.
These exact files are probably unlikely to be recovered, given that smoncrie hasn't logged into the site in 6 years. Given that the information about how to do the flat tunnels is still out there (albeit buried), that sort of project like this could be resurrected, but as you rightly pointed out, the team's current staffing situation makes it difficult to juggle multiple projects. Heck, we still haven't dusted off that infamous "new implementation" for the FLUPs, and it's been around about as long.
-Alex