High Speed Rail Project (HSRP)

[Jonathan]

In GHSR you display the model using a Resource Key Type X property, while most other draggable networks just use textures. What I'm talking about (I don't know if it's possible though) is a combination of the two methods. That is still use a model for the fences, displayed using RKT again (if it's a single model no T21s would be needed, I think), and textures for the track/ballast. The model should contain the fences only, and preferably the LODs should consist of two segments (one for each side), or instead be two separate groups.

That's not possible, any combination of models and textures, the models must T21ed. If the texture and models share the same IID then the model is used and the texture is the yellow preview you get before laying down the network.
We can still avoid the pixelation of T21s, using True 3D models and the HD props discovery. Also some of the track overlaps the grid, because of the smoother curves and switches so some pieces will have to be models not textures.

Also about the fences, I'd make them in a separate file but non optional, so if someone ever makes an alternate fence it is easy to replace.

Please insist more, (and if you can make texture/model), I can do the more technical side of things, but at the creative/BATy side of things I'm rubbish

Stewart, I was looking for a picture like that I found the thumbnail of it but not that one
That is exactly how GHSR should look in my book.

Jonathan

[plunderer]

How about this? 

[Jonathan]

Thats great plunderer
Any chance of HDifying them? Or even better true 3D?
And what I haven't understood about cateneries in SC4 is why there are never any wires? Only the old HSRP had wires? Is there a reason and can they be added?

Jonathan

[JoeST]

I believe they dont have wires due to the slope tolerances of them, or something along those lines.

Joe

[plunderer]

if I have much free time, I will.

I think the wires is not a problem if has the true 3D model
but I'm afraid that the catenary with wires result the game sight too complicated

[choco]

bud developed a procedure that should make wires possible thru BAT.


lookin' good plunderer! 

[Swamper77]

Thats great plunderer
Any chance of HDifying them? Or even better true 3D?
And what I haven't understood about cateneries in SC4 is why there are never any wires? Only the old HSRP had wires? Is there a reason and can they be added?

Jonathan

The main problem wasn't the slopes, but the mirrored curves. If the curves were flipped, the cables didn't show. No one made the mirrored models of the cables.

-Jan

[vershner]

But what I've noticed is that many people don't think the HSRP models/textures are very lifelike, So I'm asking for someone to make a better Texture, I would my self but my texture creation skills are nill.

Only one texture is needed (there are a few others that will need to be made eventually (less than 10 I'd say)) the straight one.

How about this:



This is with the wall texture as it appears in the dat:



Lining up nicely with rail in-game:

[mightygoose]

you know you could do one better and make the texture high definition...

[vershner]

It is! That's a 256x256 image. I'm not sure if it's showing up as high-def in the in-game pic, I've not used a high-def texture before so maybe it didn't work.

[Jonathan]

Looks great!  One suggestion though putting gravel in between the tracks? Just that's what it is like in the picture from stewart above.
And I think Mightygoose is meaning about the gravel and sides? The actual track I think is spot on though.

Possibly you could have a go at remaking the gravel in HD? Or someone else could make gravel and we mix the two together?

Thanks for posting the texture though it is already an improvent on the old one

Jonathan

[vershner]

I think with gravel in-between the rails it would look too much like regular rail. I've updated the gravel though:



Comparison with the old one:

[choco]

 

[Jonathan]

Even Better 

Do you think it would be better to remove the blue/grey lines at the sides, but leave the width o gravel alone so a gradient/blend can be added using alphas.

Jonathan

[vershner]

Which lines do you mean? The thick ones at the edge that go in and out?

For the raised HSR I don't think there would be much need for a gradient, because the gravel would be up against the walls anyway.
Maybe for the ground lines though if they're not going to have walls.

I quite like the outer lines. They look like they would hold cabling, and they're quite common on railways.

[cogeo]

It's good that the HSR texture is about to be improved or replaced, finally. Pls take a look at my comments below. Don't like commenting, just want to make HSR as good as possible.

What I liked:
- Rails are now 2m apart, so it's much easier for lot/texture makers to make shared or transition track textures. With the old HSR texture this was very painfull. In my GHSR stations I had to make dual- (not sbared-) track textures.
- The rails have a shadow around them, and this improves distinctiveness. The colour of the rails is very good too. I would suggest that you keep these as they are now.
- Those concrete (?) supports (or sleepers ?) add a note of realism. An alternative could be concrete blocks/slabs.

What I didn't like:
- The concrete (suppports') color isn't of high enough contrast to its backround texture. Both are basically gray shades of quite close luminosity. Maybe by increasing contrast a little, distintiveness could improve.
- If these concrete thingies are sleepers, there should be something like a metallic connecting rod between them (better use a dark gray colour, with some "rust" pixels). This is often covered by the gravel, however what is between the rails doesn't look like gravel, it looks like taken from another texture and doesn't blend well (I think it's the current HSR texture that looks through) - even the "step" isn't the same. To my opinion this should be the same as the gravel around the rails, or better yet, have the connecting rods showing (or instead a full-length concrete sleeper).
- The texture around the concrete supports (that nearly homogenous gray) should rather be removed. Now it looks like an odd and out of place overlay. You should have either blocks/slabs (and in this case they should be of the same "material" as the supports and cover the area between the rails too) or concrete sleepers (with a metallic connecting rod or instead full-length concrete). It's not quite realistic as is.
- I think the supports are too densely placed. The distance betweem them should rather be 1.5-2 times their width.
- You have kept the old (current) gravel texture, which to my opinion isn't quite good. Please consider replacing it - you may keep the "cables" (?) and the "wall" at the left. So better mask the gravel out, and put the resulting image as an overlay on a new gravel texture.

I'm not sure if using HD textures really improves quality considerably. 256x256 is actually higher than the screen resolution - the screen resolution becomes the limiting factor then. That's why the improvement (compared to 128x128) is hardly visible, as opposed to models, wehre the improvement is more than apparent. Maybe consider making it 128x128, or both resolutions. I know texture makers like 256x256 because they have a bigger "canvas" to work on, but the game makes little use of it.

[vershner]

- The concrete (suppports') color isn't of high enough contrast to its backround texture. Both are basically gray shades of quite close luminosity. Maybe by increasing contrast a little, distintiveness could improve.

I'll experiment with the colour and see if I can improve it, but there's a danger of it becoming cartoony if there's too much contrast.

- If these concrete thingies are sleepers, there should be something like a metallic connecting rod between them (better use a dark gray colour, with some "rust" pixels). This is often covered by the gravel, however what is between the rails doesn't look like gravel, it looks like taken from another texture and doesn't blend well (I think it's the current HSR texture that looks through) - even the "step" isn't the same. To my opinion this should be the same as the gravel around the rails, or better yet, have the connecting rods showing (or instead a full-length concrete sleeper).

Yeah it's the old HSR texture and you're right, it doesn't look good. I'm going to replace it.

- The texture around the concrete supports (that nearly homogenous gray) should rather be removed. Now it looks like an odd and out of place overlay. You should have either blocks/slabs (and in this case they should be of the same "material" as the supports and cover the area between the rails too) or concrete sleepers (with a metallic connecting rod or instead full-length concrete). It's not quite realistic as is.
- I think the supports are too densely placed. The distance betweem them should rather be 1.5-2 times their width.

I disagree with both these points. The HSR's that I looked at had very close supports with concrete underneath. See the pics below:

- You have kept the old (current) gravel texture, which to my opinion isn't quite good. Please consider replacing it - you may keep the "cables" (?) and the "wall" at the left. So better mask the gravel out, and put the resulting image as an overlay on a new gravel texture.

No, I've replaced the old gravel. The second post I made has new high-def gravel.

[cogeo]

I'm not sure which type of track you are trying to make the texture for.
The first pic shows pre-fab elements, they are not really sleepers. And the supports are too "thin".
The second pic shows concrete blocks, and the supports are metallic, not concrete.

When I was talking about the distance between supports I had in mind the (sleeperless) slabs shown in this pic.

It's used in Germany, and we have also parts of the network using these here in Greece too.


Or, you can make concrete sleepers like these.


In your texture, the concrete supports (or sleepers or what) over that gray texture doesn't look like the track shown in any of the pics (yours or mine), that's why I commented against it.

[mightygoose]

well the High Speed 1 line in the UK has half sleepers under each rail and a gravel base....

[vershner]

What I was trying to make is a track that would look reasonably different to the regular rail track, but still look realistic. It's a concrete base with grey metal supports holding the track. I'm not trying to make it look exactly like any particular photograph.

I think the support spacing roughly matches the two images I posted and the one in mightygoose's pic.

Here's the latest draft with the inter-track concrete and slightly more contrast in the supports: