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Rural Renewal Project

Started by Chrisadams3997, September 11, 2007, 03:54:51 PM

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jacqulina

thankyou chris but i have eagerly been watching out for your return welcome back my friend.

Ennedi

Hello Chris!

This is the first stage of testing your new stuff. There will be more tests and more comments  ;)

1. Ploppable flora:

- The best aspect of your ploppable flora is their plopping parameters. Plopping these plants is very

comfortable, one click gives a subtle diversed patch, we can increase it's density clicking more times.

Mixing various kinds of flora is very easy too.
- Your plants are extremely slope tolerant. They can be planted on very steep slopes and they look good

on every slope.

- Because of their subtle form plants can be easy mixed with existing terrain textures (from the

terrain mod). It gives completely new possibilities.
For example we can "break" the boring (or too flashy green) grassy texture or cover one texture leaving

other ones uncovered. We can also mask unnatural straight transitions between rock and grass, or hide

straight and sharp rocky edges. It really opens new horizons  ;D :thumbsup:
- But for the same reason (subtle form and ability to mix up with other textures) we have a problem. Chris'

plants are not very contrasting.
If we would look at the real landscape from the top of the hill, forest clearings would be easy seen. Trying

to arrange such clearing using Chris' stuff we can achieve a bit unclear final look.
So, do we need to change something? No! It would be only good to make one or two brighter plants,

contrasting well with tree textures, to plant on the forest border. And we shouldn't use too much various

kinds of plants together without any plan!


Yesterday I made a forest clearing, but I must work with it more. Today I will concentrate on another theme:

Open spaces in mountainous terrain.

1.1. I would like to improve the stream surrounding. Especially I don't like white stones (necessary to

finish the stream) on the brownish rocky background. So I will try to make a transition there. I want also

make the grassy space more interesting.

Before...



...And after



1.2. The last flora level in Alpine - type mountains: dwarf pine and various grasses. An example of mixing Chris' plants with terrain textures.



1.3. Flashy green texture was not apropriate at this place, so it was hidden. I needed also mask a few ugly sharp rock edges (do you see where are they?  ;D)



2. Paths:

This is an excellent idea. And my dream - long time ago I tried to make something similar:





And now you created these paths... :thumbsup:

2.1. The cement path compared with the Asphaltwege (SFBT). Doesn't look bad, even together with such good stuff!



2.2. The gravel path: My favourite - because of it's texture. Other textures look a bit too flat and simple for me (I don't know proper word, but I hope you know what I mean  :))





2.3.Darker dirt path is better than Dirt Path (it forms triangles when we plop it diagonally).





My first conclusions about paths:
- Excellent idea!
- Textures shouldn't be such uniform, rather something like Gravel Path.
- Colors: It would be good to look at most popular rock mods and try to make paths colors similar (not the same, but harmonizing with rocks - or beaches; all these things in the given region are products of the same rock, of course we can have more rock colors, but there is a harmony between them - nature is the best artist!  ;D) As for asphalt and cement paths - OK, but in RL they are usually more smooth  :)
- The slope tolerance is limited. We can plop a path on every slope, but on sttep slopes pieces don't form a path. They are simply flat.
But it could be improved I think, maybe if pieces wouldn't be flat but made as rectangular stones with the upper surface on the terrain level?...

OK, I finish and go to play more with it  :D
Thank you Chris!
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Chrisadams3997

#302
Pilotdaryl:  Now there's some incentive to keep the quality up!  Good thing I'm doing a good job of it :thumbsup:

Jacky: :)

Thanks for the excellent post Ennedi.  I've started looking at a few of the things you've brought up, and am getting around to some others.

To Start out with:
Quote- But for the same reason (subtle form and ability to mix up with other textures) we have a problem. Chris'

plants are not very contrasting.
If we would look at the real landscape from the top of the hill, forest clearings would be easy seen. Trying

to arrange such clearing using Chris' stuff we can achieve a bit unclear final look.
So, do we need to change something? No! It would be only good to make one or two brighter plants,

contrasting well with tree textures, to plant on the forest border

I'd like to see some pictures of what you're doing here just for a clearer picture.  However I've for now(and I'd been thinking about it before anyways) made a few varieties of flower for now that stand out more, though still maintain the same scale.  You'll see here a second yellow flower variety that's brighter, a bright pink variety, as well as a brighter blue, contrasted with the previously existing flowers and grass:



If you've got more ideas in this area, or if anyone else does for that matter, I'd like to hear it.

Next:
Quote2.3.Darker dirt path is better than Dirt Path (it forms triangles when we plop it diagonally).

This is likely because the original dirt path's model is slightly different than the rest.  I'll rerender it with the same model as the rest.

QuoteOther textures look a bit too flat and simple for me (I don't know proper word, but I hope you know what I mean  )

I know what you mean, because I'd thought it myself :).  And your picture comparing it to those SFBT paths has given me an idea for the cement based ones.  I'll also be taking a look at the dirt ones.  The biggest problem from my viewpoint is that a 'border' can't be added in any controllable way to transition to the surrounding ground.  This occurs of course because the rotation is random, it has to be able to go in any direction, and every tile overlaps the previous.  Anything different on the edges will also be covering part of the previous tile, just wouldn't work.

Also, the tile can't have anything too prominent in the texture.  I'd like to have multiple models to give some additional randomness of sorts, but the only way to do that is through the clustering mechanism, which is not well suited to this particular project.  I've played with parameters, but the truth is with the method of placement, and more specifically how close the tiles are and the uniformity needed in that closeness, you virtually always go straight to the highest point of the cluster(the last model in the chain.)  At the same time the clustering gets in the way of placement.

Long story short, it's limited to a single model that has to be be fairly nondescript and uniform in texture pattern to avoid repetition while maintaining the flow from one tile to the next.  But I do intend to try to improve upon the original textures as much as I can.  And I've already got a few ideas how-you'll have to wait for that though ;).

Quote- The slope tolerance is limited. We can plop a path on every slope, but on sttep slopes pieces don't form a path. They are simply flat.
But it could be improved I think, maybe if pieces wouldn't be flat but made as rectangular stones with the upper surface on the terrain level?...

heh, heh, problem solved ;D ;D ;D:



What you see here is the result of a little experiment.  It all started when I says to myself, "It would be really cool if flora could be made to orient to slope."  So I went in and added in the 'orient to slope' property to one of the path models just to see what would happen.  Well, you can see for yourself.  I haven't tested the slope-oriented path with other flora intersecting it(which is when problems usually arise if something isn't right with flora--freezes the game in the monitor, no beuno, usually requires a restart :(.)  So assuming it passes that test, it seems to work just fine.

Quote- Colors: It would be good to look at most popular rock mods and try to make paths colors similar (not the same, but harmonizing with rocks - or beaches; all these things in the given region are products of the same rock, of course we can have more rock colors, but there is a harmony between them - nature is the best artist!  )

This'll take longer to look at since I haven't played around with many of the rock mods, but given time I will try to see the feasibility of doing textures based on some of the rock mods.

Hope everyone has a good weekend,
Chris

Ennedi

Wow, Chris, I didn't expect such quick and detailed answer! Thank you! :thumbsup:

QuoteI'd like to see some pictures of what you're doing here just for a clearer picture.

I will prepare next pictures as sson as possible.

QuoteThe biggest problem from my viewpoint is that a 'border' can't be added in any controllable way to transition to the surrounding ground

Such asphalt and cement paths as you created don't need any border. We can say these are narrow, old and worn out paths in rural/forested areas. Even such "border" as we can see along the SFBT path is rather a cumulation of dirt, humidity, old leaves etc. along the path edge. We couldn't see any border along such narrow path from such distance as we usually look in SC4. My only comment is that dirt paths can have uneven edges because of grass (and other small plants) growth. Cement/asphalt paths should be very damaged to look such uneven  :)

Quoteyou virtually always go straight to the highest point of the cluster(the last model in the chain)

I agree, in fact the cluttering mechanism is my biggest problem with ploppable forests and I'm still thinking how to solve it. Of course it wouldn't be good in our case. But as I said, gravel texture is very good! Maybe something like this but in some variants?

Slope conforming paths? Great!  :thumbsup:

Have a nice weekend and relax!

Adam
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Orange Julius

The blue flowers look better...it really looks good. Y'know, south of Navasota (and you know where I'm talking about...), Highway 6 rolls across the countryside and during the spring, beautiful flowers line the area. Bluebonnets and other Texas wildflowers. Now, with the RHW and this...I can make it come true!
Gone now...

Chrisadams3997

#305
I agree about the smoothness of the cement and asphalt paths, but I've got some constraints to deal with &mmm.  They could be made smoother by using a more nearly, or completely circular, model, but, They would have to overlap a lot more.  While I can do that, I'm concerned with performance issues at that point.  I'll run some tests with it though.

As for clustering with ploppable forests, I've learned a lot about the subject.  If PM what issues you've got, I might have some ideas, depending on what you're trying to do.

Oh, and Orange Julius, I figured you'd like the bolder bluebonnets.  It'd come to my memory that you'd asked about it when I was doing the other new flowers.  I'll have both versions in there, so folks can use the more appropriate one to the occasion.

Chris

EDIT:  Just wanted to show what I've changed today.  Subtle changes to the dirt paths' textures and the cement texture.



The Cement model here is a decagon allowed closer spacing to try to make it smoother.  In my test shown below it needs 40% more tiles for the same space however.  Input is welcome on whether to go this route, use the original, or any other solutions/ideas.



Also, the 'orient to slope' property has checked out fine so far, and has been added to all of them.

girlfromverona

#306
Chris, I've just started playing with your flora and paths, and I have to say they are STUNNING!! Thank you so much for the hard work you've put into them.  &apls

ETA: Those new cement paths do look a lot smoother and more realistic. I think you should definitely continue down this path (pun intended). I can't wait to get my hands on the final version. ;D

Chrisadams3997

#307
Thanks for the compliments, and thanks for the input :).  I'm glad it's all working as it should.

Now, I've got a request.  I'm working on some underbrush right now, but Gmax does a poor job of rendering the shadows and such on oppacity map based flora.  The smaller stuff it's not a big issue, but for these I'd like a volunteer who has Bat for Max who could render them for me.  I'm pretty sure the results will be much better.  If anyone can do it, let me know and I'll send them and the material textures when I'm done on my end.

Here's some initial pictures of them:





Notice the difference in the shadowed side of these compared to the CP trees.

This kind of thick underbrush, mostly Youpon, is very common in wooded areas here in Southeast Texas and the rest of the Gulf Coast(Gulf of Mexico.)

Chris

jacqulina

wonderfull progress chris the flora is excellent ingame no probs with it at all,the the paths i havent had time to play with yet,but i like what you have here with the new ideas,the pink flowers and underbrush are beautifull. &apls &apls

Ennedi

#309
Chris,

Dirt paths are very good now! I think nothing more is needed.
The cement path looks excellent! It would be very good to leave it in this form, but of course they need a performance test. It is also possible that plopping them will need more patience - the player must have really sure touch to draw a nice path, even in the previous version (10 pieces per tile)  ;)

As for clustering with ploppable forests, I think I will send you a PM. But I need some time to prepare it. I'm very glad you are experienced in that subject!  :thumbsup:

QuoteThis'll take longer to look at since I haven't played around with many of the rock mods, but given time I will try to see the feasibility of doing textures based on some of the rock mods.

You don't need to look too far  :D
Some time ago I made a comparation of various terrain mods in my MD. I also tried to show the most interesting and useful rock mods at this occasion. You can check this one and three next updates.

Next testing from tomorrow...

Adam

Edit: The next excellent idea with the underbrush! I can't help you, but I also hope we will find an experienced volunteer - please help us!  :)

New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Andreas

Wow, looks like a lot of stuff has happened when I was away for a week. :) Welcome back, Chris, it's great to see that you're continuing your great work on those rural items. I feared that it got lost forever... Anyway, those ploppable paths are a very interesting approach indeed, great idea! I also like your icons, although I usually prefer in-game pics. But you're right that some 1 pixel colored blotches on a green background aren't really recognizable. ;)
Andreas

Pat Riot

I think these paths will come very handy when im am making parks for my downtowns.

and uh, somthing tells me all this stuff will come handy when im making rural areas  :P :thumbsup:

great work chris

bat

Fantastic testing there with it! And also wonderful work on this stuff! Great progress! :thumbsup:

Diggis

Quote from: Chrisadams3997 on May 17, 2008, 08:31:22 PM

Now, I've got a request.  I'm working on some underbrush right now, but Gmax does a poor job of rendering the shadows and such on oppacity map based flora.  The smaller stuff it's not a big issue, but for these I'd like a volunteer who has Bat for Max who could render them for me.  I'm pretty sure the results will be much better.  If anyone can do it, let me know and I'll send them and the material textures when I'm done on my end.


You have my email.  As long as you have the LODs set how you want them I'll give it a crack.  Only problem is importing them.  I think the textures will have to be reset, but I'll give it a crack.  Should be OK.

Pat

WOW Chris you've been busy here and doing a grand job of these wonderful additions too!!!!

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie

TheTeaCat

Well chris what can I say




The only issue I had was on steep slopes but you seem to have sorted that out already otherwise they work beautifully :thumbsup:

The darker version of the flowers looks better in my opinion and having both version -  &dance

I really cant wait till you release all your rural goodies :D :D

regards
Derry
Kettle's on. Milk? Sugars?    ps I don't like Earl Grey  $%Grinno$%
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - If you're not part of the solution , you're part of the problem!
"Never knock on Death's door: Ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!"
Tales at TeaTime      Now A proper NUT      TTC plays GRV II

Chrisadams3997

#316
Jacky:  Thank you as always, and it's good to hear you've had no problems with them.

Ennedi:  Yes, I like the new dirt textures a lot better.  I took your advise quite to heart on them, it's actually the original textures with a color corrected and blurred image of the gravel texture superimposed at 35% transparency on top of it.  Took a little playing with to come up with that formula, but it was worth it.  I'm still playing with the cement texture, and the asphalt will be the same only darker.  The Blacktop I'm not changing though I think.  Where I've seen this material used for park paths, it's not poured in forms like cement, but rather 'plopped' if you will onto the ground into a path and does have very uneven edges, so I think it is still appropriate.

QuoteYou don't need to look too far  

Some time ago I made a comparation of various terrain mods in my MD. I also tried to show the most interesting and useful rock mods at this occasion. You can check this one and three next updates.

Thanks for this link, it'll be very helpful there, though I'll have to find time to really go through it, plus getting the mods(not too hard), and working up good textures for them.  That could be slated for a second set of paths I think.

Andreas:  
QuoteBut you're right that some 1 pixel colored blotches on a green background aren't really recognizable.

Just thought I'd share some quick thoughts on the subject, since I never showed the ingame pic versions I tried at first.  There were a few that came out decent enough, such as the stumps and cattails.  Obviously the larger items.  The ground clutter type flora however... well here's some pics.

Cattails:

Not too bad

Marsh and Wild Flowers:

Not so good

I thought about labeling them with words, but it just seemed inefficient.  And for the record, this was the better of the approaches I tried, as I also did them with single clumps against different backgrounds.  There just wasn't much clarity to any of it, just color.

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts on the paths as well.  I'm personally looking forward to seeing how people use them

PatRiot:
Quoteand uh, somthing tells me all this stuff will come handy when im making rural areas  

Indeed, with any luck, lol.  Thanks.

Bat:  Thank you Bat, your kind words are always welcome :thumbsup:.

Diggis:  Thanks! You've been such a big help in this.  I'll probably have the models ready early next week, hopefully before I head out of town.

And of course, thank you Pat.

Chris

Edit:  TTC, you came in as I was posting.  Thank you as well.  Indeed, I've tested the paths with the Orient to slope property and It's all tested out well.  In addition to just looking better on slopes, it fixes the shadows on the slopes, which where a little odd before, and the paths actually lay down better/more smoothly even on gentle slopes with it.

And for everyones testing pleasure, the new flowers are HERE

And the updated paths are THERE

Edit:  Superseded by new versions

NOTE:  The FLOWERS here won't replace anything in the first release, only adds the new varieties.  The PATHS on the other hand should REPLACE all the files from the first release, but once that is done is backwards compatible with anything you've already placed, it will merely replace the models to the new ones.  It will also add the slope tolerance, though I haven't tested wether the paths will need to be plopped again for it to take effect or if it will automatically update them.

Hope everyone enjoys.  Right now I'm just adding to the diagonal filler lots for the fences.  I could release them, well yes.  But I'd like to give folks a few more days to play with the flora and paths before unnecessarily distracting them :-\.  Yes I know, I'm evil ()flamdev(), but you'll get over it ;).

Chris

jacqulina

thankyou my friend,some more awesome flora thankyou,and great paths i cant wait to try them.i have been playing with the other set no probs at all. &apls

TheTeaCat

Just collect them up thank you very much indeed :thumbsup:
looking for to having some more fun ;D ;D

time for a cuppa and lets see what there are like :D :D

:satisfied:
TTC
Kettle's on. Milk? Sugars?    ps I don't like Earl Grey  $%Grinno$%
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - If you're not part of the solution , you're part of the problem!
"Never knock on Death's door: Ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!"
Tales at TeaTime      Now A proper NUT      TTC plays GRV II

Andreas

Quote from: Chrisadams3997 on May 18, 2008, 01:43:15 PM
I thought about labeling them with words, but it just seemed inefficient.

Yeah, words are efficient for some items, but obviously it's difficult for flowers, and on top of that, it would be hard to translate into other languages. Anyway, it looks very nice as it is - I'll surely try them out once I have the time. Keep up your great work! :)
Andreas