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RealRailway (RRW) - Development and Support

Started by Swordmaster, June 14, 2013, 08:42:19 AM

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gn_leugim

it is all draggable?? even the trees?? :O great work!  &apls

TheOtherRick

Quote from: gn_leugim on October 03, 2013, 03:47:07 AM
it is all draggable?? even the trees?? :O great work!  &apls

:D :D :D @ "even the trees...but seriously, this is fantastic! I want it and I want it NOW&apls

APSMS

Not sure how busy y'all have been, but from what I can tell it just keeps getting better and better.

A question to eggman, who I haven't seen recently: Would it be possible to make those caternary wires available for GLR as well (I'm pretty sure tram lines use overhead wires much more often that rail lines, esp in the US, but probably even in Europe). I know it's extra work on your part, I'm just hoping it's not too much to consider.

Also, those curves (though probably unrealistic) look fantastic; they'll make some stuff much easier, especially being draggable and all.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

My Mayor Diary San Diego: A Reinterpretation

eggman121

#263
To answer your question I do plan to place wires on GLR and Elevated Light rail but it won't be for quite a while. I have had to rework my catenaries since I was using props that where offset or off centre from the centre point. The wires are not easy to align since it is like trying to get two pins to align. It is especially difficult when obscure angles are involved.

I did however find a solution.

A tile has positions which are read as a hexadecimal value from 0x00000000 which is 0m to
to 0xFFFFFFFF which is 256m or 16 tiles. This explains why a Lot or puzzle piece can't be more than 16 by 16 tiles. I have nearly finished the right curve. I have calculated the distance between two points by using the lot editor props and divided that number which is 6553.6 or 0x0000FFFF at 1m.

Here is a curve that I have been working on showing the accuracy of the new method of moving props with the hexadecimal values. Many of the props are in segments to align with a specific tile coordinate



Now I need to thank Memo for his explanation on the diagonals and his suggestion that  wires should be straight rather that zigzagging. It is a nice touch but it would have not worked with the T21s.

Now I am gearing up the wires for the Real Railway since I am sure that it will have more support that the RAM and Maxis rails we have now. But this mod won't be released until well after the RRW release since I am not a NAM team member so I will just have to wait until the next official NAM release to digest the new content. Also I need a solution to the level crossing props that will inevitably conflict with the T21 wires that I am making now so I will have to find a way to include the props as part of the catenaries mod that I am working on and a way to override other T21 crossing props that won't be part of this mod.

I have had a lot of RL lately so I have not been as active but help is always welcome for both the Transport Signage Mod and the catenary mod that I am working on now.

-eggman121

Gugu3


FrankU


RepublicMaster

Great work Eggman! These are shaping up nicely! :thumbsup:

APSMS

Gee, those look really good, though I'm not sure I ever really understood or appreciated the zigzagging wires. Perhaps you explain to me the benefit of them (I know you've let them go, but it's fun to understand stuff).

I wish I could help with T21 stuff. It's just that I really don't have enough time to play the game, much less spend time and energy on learning how to mod (and summer isn't a good time to start for me either, unfortunately). I understand T21s are usually easier, but nobody (I think) has ever successfully attempted catenaries with wires that were slope conformant before. I am guessing that you've segmented the wires in small pieces and then set up the T21 to display all the segments aligned with each other. Since the individual props will conform to the slope in small segments, I'm guessing that's how you achieve the illusion of slope tolerance?

Outside of that epiphany, I can only offer moral support, and maybe a few insights based on stuff I've read around here.
Maybe Willy can help adjust your NAM status, though? Perhaps to give you a little bit more technical support on the NAM private boards? (I'm thinking NAM associate, seeing as how the mod is primarily cosmetic, though still revolutionary, and highly technical in its setup and execution)
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

My Mayor Diary San Diego: A Reinterpretation

FrankU

On straight tracks the wires must zig-zag, because otherwise the wire would cut into the pantograph (is it called that way in English?); I mean the thing that is used by the train to make contact with the wire.

art128

Quote from: FrankU on October 09, 2013, 05:38:52 AM
On straight tracks the wires must zig-zag, because otherwise the wire would cut into the pantograph (is it called that way in English?); I mean the thing that is used by the train to make contact with the wire.

In real life, yes.

In simcity you don't need it because you won't notice it, and requires hard modding, useless for what it gives.
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

Props & Texture Catalog

FrankU

Quote from: art128 on October 09, 2013, 06:47:12 AM
Quote from: FrankU on October 09, 2013, 05:38:52 AM
On straight tracks the wires must zig-zag, because otherwise the wire would cut into the pantograph (is it called that way in English?); I mean the thing that is used by the train to make contact with the wire.

In real life, yes.

In simcity you don't need it because you won't notice it, and requires hard modding, useless for what it gives.

Yes, you are right, of course, but some of us apparently are picky about realism. In my opinion straight wires would be perfect enough.

samerton

I'd just like to say that progress on both the RRW and the overhead wires are looking superb, great work :thumbsup:

FlyHigh

#272
@ Eggman: Great progress on the wide radius curve's catenary. In practise it was a wise decision to drop the zig-zagging as it would be hardly noticeable anyway.
I'd suggest you to keep a close contact with Willy and/or other NAM team members so as to make way for compatibility that, I'm sure most NAM team members will appreciate in the name of realism.


As for the RRW, it's quite impressive to see the difference in realism just by re-pathing the same curves/diagonals. Even though they wouldn't be much fun to ride on in real life (velocity on those curves would not be much more then 40km/h !! ) those curves look a lot more pleasing then MAXIS'.



Quote from: FrankU on October 09, 2013, 05:38:52 AM
On straight tracks the wires must zig-zag, because otherwise the wire would cut into the pantograph (is it called that way in English?); I mean the thing that is used by the train to make contact with the wire.

Pantograph is the correct word and the reason for the zig-zagging of the overhead wire is about right. The pantograph's contact bar is cover with a carbon coating to increase conductibility and assure a stable flow of energy (reducing energy peaks that result from the catenary making more or less pressure on the wire). But the catenary (usually copper based) is harder then the carbon and, therefore would make a dent on the pantograph's contact bar that would destabilise the current flow. As such, the catenary wire is set so as to zig-zag along the rail track thus wearing the contact bar evenly across its length.

Just a little practical knowledge  ::)
>>> Maxwell R. Black <<<
* * *

* * *

Kuewr665

I'm not really sure what is meant by zig-zagging wires...? Is it about the shape of the wire on the curve?

GDO29Anagram

Quote from: Kuewr665 on October 11, 2013, 05:34:14 PM
I'm not really sure what is meant by zig-zagging wires...? Is it about the shape of the wire on the curve?

If you just have a straight overhead wire (catenary), the wire will eat a groove into the pantograph (the metal-ish thing that contacts the overhead wire that's actually made out of graphite), whereas a zigzagging wire will evenly wear out the pantograph. When you have a train that's whizzing by at 300+ km/h (if you're France) or 150 km/h (if you're the NAM; well, either way, that's really fast), that overhead wire would surely wear out the pantograph, but if you look closely, the wire's actually going side to side and a giant groove doesn't appear... Ever used sandpaper but only used one spot? Similar idea.

If the range of the zigzagging is only a few feet (and at this scale, such variance is often the case), the variance would be too little to notice on a tile that's 52 by 52 feet. Something I learned off of watching a documentary on trains...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_catenary
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FlyHigh

OFF TOPIC:

Quote from: Kuewr665 on October 11, 2013, 05:34:14 PM
I'm not really sure what is meant by zig-zagging wires...? Is it about the shape of the wire on the curve?

Here, take a look in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rq9b_bn6Bc

A minute or so in, on a straight stretch of rail, pay attention to the catenary wire. You'll notice that it is no straight with the line but rather keeps switching between right and left diagonals: zig-zag
>>> Maxwell R. Black <<<
* * *

* * *

Kuewr665


Swordmaster

Like Ganaram, I have my doubts that the notorious zigzag in the wire would be noticeable at the scale we're working with. In fact I even hardly notice it in real life. Implementing it would be a hassle not worth it, I think.


Quote from: Kuewr665 on September 20, 2013, 10:29:26 PM
Agreed.

This is possibly more of a RAM thing, but will there be a line crossover for this piece or does this function without one?



Yes, a diagonal crossover is somewhere on my todo list.


Quote from: FlyHigh on October 11, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
As for the RRW, it's quite impressive to see the difference in realism just by re-pathing the same curves/diagonals. Even though they wouldn't be much fun to ride on in real life (velocity on those curves would not be much more then 40km/h !! ) those curves look a lot more pleasing then MAXIS'.

They're quite fun to drive on ;D

The basic draggable network (my current focus and probably the first part of the mod that will be released) represents a network with speeds between 20 and 40 km/h that you'd use to build lines in industrial areas or ports. But of course people can use it wherever they want.


Cheers
Willy

FlyHigh

Quote from: Swordmaster on October 12, 2013, 07:08:17 AM
Like Ganaram, I have my doubts that the notorious zigzag in the wire would be noticeable at the scale we're working with. In fact I even hardly notice it in real life. Implementing it would be a hassle not worth it, I think.

The basic draggable network (my current focus and probably the first part of the mod that will be released) represents a network with speeds between 20 and 40 km/h that you'd use to build lines in industrial areas or ports. But of course people can use it wherever they want.

Cheers
Willy

The fact that you're actually paying attention to velocities says a lot about this upcoming mod. Certainly a lot more though went into it then in the new iteration of SimCity! ::)

By the way, is there a prediction on weather this mod will be featured (even though incomplete) in the NAM 32 or is it something we ought not to wait in the upcoming release of the NAM?
>>> Maxwell R. Black <<<
* * *

* * *

Swordmaster

As per traditional NAM policy, there's no telling if, when or who. What I can say, though, is that I'm working on it at full speed, and making good progress (unlike before my summer break, when I had hit a bit of a wall).


Cheers
Willy