NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

[j-dub]

Ew! The dreaded automatic Maxis override.

I know this one, its not just NMave where this will still occur, unless you put a ped mall tile on all those sides of the corners, or block those corners off another way, the chances are that the Maxis Highway will want to draw those ramp pieces there, automatically, but deconvert the road, since they had no way of knowing that back then, such other road networks would exist, there just are not ramps that exist that cover the roads with the lanes added from the NWM. As Maarten said though, they probably will not be resolved in the future.

The whole thing is though, if you do still want to have an interchange where a single tile NWM road goes under a Maxis like that, you just will need more room, and have to use the OWR to Maxis highway ramps, and cross over with that.

[cogeo]

Maarten, what puzzle pieces are you talking about? As I have explained in my post (did you read it?) it occurs with Maxis-only highways and roads too. So yes, this IS a bug!

And why "overhaul" the Maxis highways, they are really fine (although some may find them "inflexible"). The NAM team should at least keep them as they are, if not expand them (eg the elevated trumpet and partial Y interchanges I have always been asking for).

[Tarkus]

The issue at hand is a good bit more complicated than the discussion thus far has presented it to be.

Regarding an interchange hook-up from NMAVE-4 to Maxis Highways, that's not so much a bug as it is a feature that simply doesn't exist.  We haven't made a model for that setup, and thus, it's not included.  (I should note, the user's question seems specifically limited to just about NMAVE-4/MHW integration--there's no mention of any issue with base game content otherwise.)

But another, much bigger part of the problem is that if you drag an NMAVE-4 under a Highway as this user has, and accept the game's prompt to build an interchange, it'll always end up as a default Road interchange.  The interchange building prompt for Maxis Highways is not an override, but a ConvertQueryID setup specified in RUL0.  It's basically the same as an AutoPlace (used for the ill-fated "Draggable FAR" attempt from NAM 28 that caused the Car Ferry CTD), but with a user prompt.

The larger issue is that we can't fix this with a RUL2 override.  Upon accepting the prompt on a ConvertQueryID setup, an Interchange-base Related Item (IRI, to use Tropod's terminology), AKA a puzzle piece, is placed--one just like all the other ordinary puzzle pieces out there.  It's just placed via the prompt rather than grabbing it from the menu.  It's all handled by RUL0, and the puzzle piece that gets placed is determined by the CheckType setup. 

Any time a user drags a Road-based NWM network across a Maxis Highway and accepts the prompt to build an interchange, the resultant interchange that is placed will always be default Road interchange.  And because, from the standpoint of CheckTypes, there is no differentiation between a Road, an NMAVE-4, a TLA-7, etc., there's no way to differentiate it from the RUL0 end. 

While there are technically ways to solve it, they are vastly less than ideal:

1) Disable ConvertQueryID setups involving Maxis Highway/Road interchanges altogether.  This would entail removing a base "feature" of the Maxis Highway system that shipped with the game.

2) Create additional ConvertQueryID setups for the additional NWM networks.  However, as there's 4 other Road-based single-tile NWM networks, there's going to be at least 5 matching CheckType setups, possibly more, depending on just how one's network layout is set up.  If you build a dual/triple-tile network, due to the fact that single-sided ramps are tied into ConvertQueryID, you could quite possibly see 20+ prompts.  This means the user is going to get inundated with by "Build an interchange?" queries, and will get very annoyed quickly.  With the way RUL files work, this is going to happen even if the user does not have the NWM installed.

The way the Maxis Highway system exists at present, it's not really able to support the latest developments in the transit modding community, even including things like the NWM.  It simply wasn't built with the type of stuff we're doing in mind.

And why "overhaul" the Maxis highways, they are really fine (although some may find them "inflexible"). The NAM team should at least keep them as they are, if not expand them (eg the elevated trumpet and partial Y interchanges I have always been asking for).

To answer the first point, the "overhaul" Maarten mentioned is a strictly optional plugin that basically converts the MHWs into a more RHW-like setup--a form that more readily permits development on them (as it means we can re-use RHW models). 

As far as those interchange requests, unfortunately, we simply don't have the resources to handle it.  It's not simply a matter of the level of interest among the development staff.  There's a reason there's only been 5 custom MHW-to-MHW interchanges completed in the past 8 years, and that's because it's fiendishly difficult and time-consuming work.

-Alex

[cogeo]

(I should note, the user's question seems specifically limited to just about NMAVE-4/MHW integration--there's no mention of any issue with base game content otherwise.)

Alex, the user's question may be limited to NMAVE-4/MHW integration, however MY point here is the missing ramp using "base game content", ie a Maxis highway (in the N-S direction) and a Maxis road. What should I do, post a pic? Maybe all this new development has affected this base game content. And it wouldn't be just right to ignore or play this down, because new development is focused on RHW and NMAVE, as many players still use and actually like the Maxis highways. New development may add new features, but should not trouble the original content.

So could someone please take a look?

[Lowkee33]

however MY point here is the missing ramp using "base game content", ie a Maxis highway (in the N-S direction) and a Maxis road.  Maybe all this new development has affected this base game content.

I will confirm that taking out my NAM folder allows for correct prompt-overpass placement.  With NAM, a N/S highway will be missing the SE ramp after a "yes" to the 2nd prompt.

[Tarkus]

I am more than happy to take a look.  It's very odd that it's affecting things going N-S but not E-W, as they should be going off the same CheckTypes.  It might point to some sort of HID misalignment from when we added 5-digit HID support.  If that's the case, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to fix.  Otherwise, it might be a 7-8 year old bug from when the early NAMites routinely played around with ConvertQueryID prompts and single-sided interchanges that's just now coming to light.

-Alex

[jondor]

I just tried with r85 from before the HID realignment.  And that is indeed the issue.  Since the NAM single sided ramp now has a lower HID than the third rotation of the original Maxis ramp, the game asks if you want to place the single sided ramp instead of the full ramp.

We can fix it by restoring the original HIDs of the Maxis highway ramps.  Since we won't be using that space anyway.

[Wiimeiser]

Just out of curiosity, exactly what is "Project Symphony" or whatever it's called?

[Lowkee33]

Been going through the EffectDir.  Reader doesn't display it, but there is a Section 13.5.  I've noticed that this section is different for NAM effects than the one in SimCity.dat.  Does anyone know why this is (Perhaps something Swampper did)?  I figure that if SimCity puzzle pieces use the default settings for 13.5 then a NAM piece could as well.  I could make a test piece, but I really don't have the understanding to know if it actually works (not knowing NAM ins-outs and all).

Edit:  Also, if someone could give me the Instance of a car automata S3D then that would help me

[Tarkus]

Just out of curiosity, exactly what is "Project Symphony" or whatever it's called?

jdenm8 can explain it better than I, but it basically it's a system that will be part of his MHW revamp, which will replace existing MHW pre-fab interchanges with a partial interchange at RHW scale.  It's not designed to be a new pre-fab system, but rather, to aid the process of converting old pre-fabs to RHW-style interchanges.

Been going through the EffectDir.  Reader doesn't display it, but there is a Section 13.5.  I've noticed that this section is different for NAM effects than the one in SimCity.dat.  Does anyone know why this is (Perhaps something Swampper did)?  I figure that if SimCity puzzle pieces use the default settings for 13.5 then a NAM piece could as well.  I could make a test piece, but I really don't have the understanding to know if it actually works (not knowing NAM ins-outs and all).

Edit:  Also, if someone could give me the Instance of a car automata S3D then that would help me

My knowledge of EffDirs is pretty much strictly limited to what I need to do to get a preview model working, and a very, very limited understanding of gizmo28's old work and some of the things the main SimCity_1.dat EffDir contains.  According to this thread [link], redlotus was the one who figured out how to make new EffDirs from scratch, as of January 22, 2004 (see post #27).  He apparently had some attachments there, but unfortunately, after all the updates at ST over the past 8 1/2 years, they're long gone.

-Alex

[Lowkee33]

I've got the whole thing decoded, just a matter of overloading some copy-constructors and I might be on to something  (an hour ago I didn't know what that meant )

I could have sworn someone pointed out (or maybe I just found it) the entry in section 1 that deals with car traffic.  Trying to find it again, but it seems like there is no direct connection between automata S3Ds and a RKT in the EffectDir.  I'm quite certain that If I can find that entry I can make cars not disappear as fast (hence the NAM board, you guys deal with this stuff the most anyway).

[PS1]

The game is Right Hand Drive
and there installs the NAM to him with the options Right Hand Drive and nonetheless this continues going out for me

[jdenm8]

Because of how the LHD plugins work, you need to do a clean reinstall of the NAM. That means uninstalling it and all of its plugins before reinstalling.

[PS1]

Because of how the LHD plugins work, you need to do a clean reinstall of the NAM. That means uninstalling it and all of its plugins before reinstalling.

Thanks

[JayStimson]

I had a problem with the latest version of the NAM and I'm not sure why. I posted the problem here http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14930.msg428117#msg428117.
As stated in the linked thread, I restored to an earlier version and everything went back to normal.
Comments ? Did I do something incorrectly ?
FYI, I installed the latest version (that's when the problem appeared). I also applied the hotfix but the problem persisted.

[jondor]

I had a problem with the latest version of the NAM and I'm not sure why. I posted the problem here http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14930.msg428117#msg428117.
As stated in the linked thread, I restored to an earlier version and everything went back to normal.
Comments ? Did I do something incorrectly ?
FYI, I installed the latest version (that's when the problem appeared). I also applied the hotfix but the problem persisted.

That's a known problem.  It has to do with the additional GLR styles plugin.  Under normal circumstances the game supplies the support pylons to the model-based El-Rail tiles.  However, because the extra GLR styles are model-based, the game sticks pylons in the middle of them.

To fix this, the pylons were removed and added back in via T21s (similarly to the Monorail/HSR case).  However, these T21s are reacting negatively with the existing T21s that add the small trackside props and many of the pylons are not being selected.  I have a partial fix started (ortho and some intersections only), but I still need to take a look through and find all the other tiles and T21s involved.  I hope at the very least to have it included as part of NAM v31.

As a temporary solution if you're not using the extra GLR styles, you can re-install without that plugin and you will have pylons back in their usual places.

[JayStimson]

No problem. Thanks for responding. Glad it's not me.
Here's a pic of my NAM plugins directory. Which file do I delete ?
I don't use the GLR so it won't hurt anything in my cities. Thanks again.

[jdenm8]

NetworkAddonMod_GroundLightRailDrag_Extension.dat is the file to delete if my memory serves me correct.

[JayStimson]

Okay. Thanks.

[jondor]

Also note that you'll have to redraw your ELR lines for the game to update the pylons and the T21s, or at least click them every five tiles or so.