Menu

LEX File Exchange
EA Support Files
SC4 Wikipedia
Network Addon Mod
Dependencies
Chat
Welcome to SimCity 4 Devotion. Please login or sign up.

July 05, 2022, 08:30:58 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Downloads

NAM Unified Traffic Simulator Development and Theory

Started by z, August 02, 2008, 05:07:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sumwonyuno

#320
I tried that modified Simulator Z Low with its respective congestion view.  I ran the game for 10 years.  It was pretty much the same as with all the other Simulator Z plugins I've tried.  There was much more of a constrained area for congested streets and the car-ped-bus situation wasn't extreme like with Classic.  However, the commute pattern under Simulator A was not replicated.

Well, I thought such mass inter-city commutes was a feature, not a bug of Simulator Z (because it's intentional and documented).  The commuters will just stick to the freeway because it's fast (even with 65535 cars + buses) and has high capacity compared to the surface streets.  It almost seems as if commuters aren't trying find the closest (available and appropriate) job and then a path to it, but rather the available and appropriate job they can get to the fastest.  I would have to say it has to do with something that's different between Z and A, because the traffic simulator plugin + congestion view are the only things that I've changed do the tests.  The bug is probably related to the issue I have of commuters in the suburbs not going toward the intended job city tiles, but go en masse to a "wrong" city tile (that only has a small clinic and school for jobs).  I'll see if Simulator A makes a difference.


The City & County of Honolulu, a Mayor Diary based on Honolulu, Hawai'i.

mark's memory address - I've created a blog!

Pharaon-Kheops

but in this case, there are PLENTY of jobs (and buildable empty ind and comm zones alike), and lack of water and education guaranteed from having people needed anything else but D-I, Ag and CS$/CS$$ (and from the appearence of R$$$ wich are a real pain in the a... ^^).
To summarize:

- traffic is almost all green => people should be able to find a job anywhere on the map (
- plenty of desired jobs => people shouldn't be jobless
- according to the others test and witnessing, things are not allways reproductible and they affect both simulators

Stop me if I seem dumb, but this sounds really like an incompatibility bug to me.....  there is somewhere something that interfere with the functions of the simulators, but not for everybody.... JPlumbey talked about "different game styles" having an influence on the effects of the simulators..... actually, game style also have an influence on wich plugins and mods we choose.... if you project to build a very dens urban metropolis, for exemple, you clearly will have very little use of pounds and streams add-ons... if you plan to recrate Phoenix, having hundreds of seaports add-ons would be quite useless, etc... see what I mean?  Maybe, a plugin, used only by certain styles of play is causing a pb?
have anybody noticed this problem with only NAM installed or with only CAM+NAM?


"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra

z

Quote from: sumwonyuno on November 10, 2009, 02:55:47 AM
Well, I thought such mass inter-city commutes was a feature, not a bug of Simulator Z (because it's intentional and documented).  The commuters will just stick to the freeway because it's fast (even with 65535 cars + buses) and has high capacity compared to the surface streets.  It almost seems as if commuters aren't trying find the closest (available and appropriate) job and then a path to it, but rather the available and appropriate job they can get to the fastest.  I would have to say it has to do with something that's different between Z and A, because the traffic simulator plugin + congestion view are the only things that I've changed do the tests.  The bug is probably related to the issue I have of commuters in the suburbs not going toward the intended job city tiles, but go en masse to a "wrong" city tile (that only has a small clinic and school for jobs).  I'll see if Simulator A makes a difference.

Well, that test eliminates all the possibilities I can think of for an actual bug in Simulator Z.

I think all your guesses are correct here.  When you say, "It almost seems as if commuters aren't trying find the closest (available and appropriate) job and then a path to it, but rather the available and appropriate job they can get to the fastest," that sounds very likely, because that's what they're supposed to do.  Is it faster for them to get to the next tile than to get to the unused jobs?  That would explain everything.  If I recall correctly, you use streets a lot rather than roads - this would also make this explanation more likely.  And what makes it the most likely explanation of all is that I can't think of anything else.  :D

Fortunately, there's an easy fix.  All you have to do is use Simulator Z (Low) - Local Edition.  Oh yeah, I've got to make it first...  :-\  There!  It's done and attached to the bottom of this post.  Please let me know how it goes.

Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on November 10, 2009, 02:59:30 AM
Maybe, a plugin, used only by certain styles of play is causing a pb?

That's quite possible - if so, it would most likely be a mod of some sort.  Neither the CAM nor the NAM should do this; I wouldn't worry about them.  And from your description, it sounds like you've eliminated my theory about water.

But you say it's not always reproducible, correct?  If you could find out what triggers it, that would be extremely helpful.

Pharaon-Kheops

well, I would try my best for that, but though I agree it "must" be a mod, you can actually put anything you want in a dat file. So nothing can guarantee that an unwanted sim exemplar hadn't been "packed" erroneously in a building dat by an unadvised modder... And I have 3 Go of plugins^^
"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra

xxdita

Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on November 10, 2009, 04:16:27 AM
well, I would try my best for that, but though I agree it "must" be a mod, you can actually put anything you want in a dat file. So nothing can guarantee that an unwanted sim exemplar hadn't been "packed" erroneously in a building dat by an unadvised modder... And I have 3 Go of plugins^^

I've never seen a traffic sim included in a building or lot dat file. Not even on a cheat lot. The only place I can even think you may even possibly run into this is at the Maxis Exchange... but even that's highly unlikely.
I think you should have a careful look through of your plugins, to make sure there isn't an older traffic sim floating about, screwing things up.

Copy this to a txt file and run it through Cleanitol, to speed up the search.
*traffic*.*

Z, I hope you're keeping track of all the files you're posting here, so you can add them to a Cleanitol for removal upon the next release?

z

Quote from: xxdita on November 10, 2009, 04:32:18 AM
Z, I hope you're keeping track of all the files you're posting here, so you can add them to a Cleanitol for removal upon the next release?

At this point, since they're all designed for single-use, they have the same names as the standard Z simulators, so they'll automatically be taken care of.

xxdita

I'd also advise against that. You should rename the files differently, so that if there is an issue with a specific version, you can adjust accordingly. If someone comes to you with a problem about your sim, you don't know if they got it from the LEX, or just 3 pages back. More importantly, if there's a problem with the new sim, and the user needs to go back to the last version... well... simply renaming the file a bit can prevent a lot of confusion.

jplumbley

#327
Here you go...  On a rampage again.  Yes, yes I know you think your work is the only work that is good.  Guess what, it is not perfect for all situations.  Capacity of Simulator Z Classic is not what I am talking about for "challenging".  And yes, your Simulator to me constitutes a "Sandbox Simulator" because you can do what ever you want and not suffer from any consequences essentially....  This is what you have been trying to prove right?  No consequences = realistic?  That is where we disagree.

Again, I made my Simulator for ME, not you.  It works fine, and does what it is intended to do.  You should stop comparing them and look at them as if they are attaempting two different things.  Yours fixing all problems that could occur before they occur by way of modding the Simualtor (sandbox), and mine just make a Simulator that suits my style of play and keep the elements of the game intact to some extent.  Im sorry if you think the elements of the game I am talking about are "bad" but then that is your opinion and it is good you are making a Simulator for that group of people.

Quote from: z on November 09, 2009, 11:31:15 PM
We had this exact discussion a year ago, didn't we?  After months of discussion and research, two things emerged:


  • The game contains a fairly reliable scale of speeds and distances, based on the fact that a single game square is 16m long.  (At very small scales, the game sacrifices proportion for the sake of visibility, but this does not significantly affect game play.)
  • Population in SC4 cities is not comparable to population in RL cities.

The second point is supported by measurements made by David while building 3RR.  In a post in this thread made last December 1st, I said,

You say here:

And in an earlier post:

The implication I read here is that commute times either have gone down in Toronto or are expected to go down, and that the same is true ("I am sure") in other parts of the world.  No supporting figures are given.

Let's look at the actual figures.

In the issue of Time Magazine dated November 9th, at the bottom of page 11, there is the statement:  "15 minutes [is] the mean amount of time it takes people in Grand Forks, N.D. to get to work - the shortest commute of any U.S. metro area."  That's a one-way commute, so the mean round-trip commute is 30 minutes.  But in SC4, we talk about maximum commutes.  Now the maximum commute for an area is typically much more than twice the mean commute, but we'll be very conservative, and we'll use a figure of twice the mean commute.  This means that the shortest maximum commute of any U.S. metropolitan area is 60 minutes.  And of course, the average maximum commute in the U.S. is much more than that.  Compare this with the 17 minute maximum commute time of Simulator A.

Let's go specifically to Toronto.  You're Canadian; you seem to know Toronto.  But how do the actual figures stack up?  Here are the average round trip commute times for major Canadian cities, courtesy of the Government of Canada:


So the average round-trip commute time for Toronto commuters is 80 minutes, meaning that the maximum round-trip commute is somewhere over 160 minutes - about a factor of 10 higher than Simulator A's maximum.  Are those condos bringing that number down?  Or are they going to soon?  Here are excerpts from an article from the Toronto Star which use the same figures:

These are official government figures.  And the trend is just getting worse.  That's the real Toronto; the small number of condos built in the city center isn't making a difference, nor is it expected to in the near future.

I've just seen that sumwonyuno has posted.  At first glance, the results seem somewhat anomalous, but it will take time to analyze them.  Question for sumwonyuno:  Are you using Simulator Z v1.2?

The problem with your theory is the game does not require an 80 minute commute under any circumstance.  In Simulator A, the longest trip would possibly be the diagonal which is roughly 17 minutes one way by Road (34 minute round trip).  There is no need for any higher than that, period.  You've tested... oh yes, you've tested and you say 600 is the "best"...  You are probably right, if you want to build all your res in one corner and funnell your Sims in a grid to the other corner where the jobs are.  But, it is not the best for me and obviously others who have built Simulators similar to A and B.  We are back to that play style and what is good for each individual again.  Simulator A does not use "real" commute times becuase the game DOESN'T require it.  If you are trying to tell me that Simulator A is unrealistic because it has a commute time of 17 minutes, which I do not believe is minutes by the way simply just a unit of time because there is no time.  If you are trying to tell me that is unrealistic, maybe you should look at your 10 hour commute time as well?  Crap, in trying to show your bias hypocritical side I accidentally attacked one of the values in your Simulator.  Im sorry I was only trying to defend my own work and you put me in that position.

Now, you are disputing what I have said about the zoning in the City of Toronto?

I have said that the City of Toronto currently has about 30 condos under construction downtown, this will allow maybe another 10-20,000 people to live in the downtown core.

I KNOW it is happening because I see it with my own two eyes.  Condos amoungst office towers.  What is the reason for it?  Lower the commute time of *those* people, since it is such a small portion of the population roughly 7 million people in the GTA, it is not going to have a big effect on overall average commute time.  And of course, you must also take into account these people have not moved in yet so your data will not include the new condos I have been talking about.

You are comparing 1992 to 2006 data....  Yes the GTA has a rise in commute time... Do you know why?  Because our population has exploded, meaning the suburbs are sprawling.rediculously!  In the past 5 years is when the idea to start building more condos closer to work has started to take effect.  That is because we are running out of space due to the Green Belt Act, and other forces.  That Act alone force commute time to skyrocket by forcing people to commute to downtown from Barrie.  The City is about to build up instead of out and it is changing, in the way that I have said before.  Re-zoning and putting work closer to home is the way our City is starting to go.

Starting.... As in will have an impact but doesnt yet.  I am pretty sure my claims on this have said the word "starting".

I think I understand what is happening in my City better than you, when you read one article and I lived here my entire life.

Maybe you should go find the stats on the population Density of Toronto...  Then we can compare the bad congestion and bad commutes (how a City works in real life) that Toronto has at this level to how it is handled by Simulator Z with it's green congestion and perky Sims (how a City works in Utopia (fantasy land)).
"You learn something new everyday."

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/169/nhpjplumbleykv3.gif
Bringing the new horizons closer to reality.

Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ Dedgren ♦ Ennedi Shadow Assassin ♦  Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Street Addon Mod - SAM

Pharaon-Kheops

Quote from: xxdita on November 10, 2009, 04:32:18 AM
I've never seen a traffic sim included in a building or lot dat file. Not even on a cheat lot.

I did not mean a deliberately incorporated, but you know how things work when you're a beginner, you take the work from someone else, open it and try to understand the inner things, then you eventually modify it to create your own first.... and some parts of it get stuck in your first try without you notice it.....^^

My plugins are well organized and search for a "rogue" traffic sim was the first thing I did, but I still follow your advice about passing a cleanitol batch... unfortunately, it get nothing.

While at work (SC4D is blocked so I can't post from office), I did analyse the situation a bit: if there is abandonment, it means the game THINKS there is. Wich means the game determined one of two things:

- people don't find jobs (wich couldn't be in this case)
- jobs people have found are more than 300 (600/2) travel ticks away (I definitely agree with JPlumbey about these not being minutes since there is a "convertion unit" in the simulator)

To my opinion, in this instance, this is only possible if one of the following occurs:

- another plugins changes the max time commute after the NAM
- commute simulation is stuck in some sort of eternal loop

I also remembered having read something about road top mass transit lot and how they work, but not exactly where... and I do use RTMTV. Could the kind of "reseting" affecting commuter's routes each time they pass through these lots have an impact on the way the simulators are working (or at least, lead to unexpected effects...)?
"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra

jplumbley

Quote from: z on November 10, 2009, 04:07:11 AM
Well, that test eliminates all the possibilities I can think of for an actual bug in Simulator Z.

I think all your guesses are correct here.  When you say, "It almost seems as if commuters aren't trying find the closest (available and appropriate) job and then a path to it, but rather the available and appropriate job they can get to the fastest," that sounds very likely, because that's what they're supposed to do.  Is it faster for them to get to the next tile than to get to the unused jobs?  That would explain everything.  If I recall correctly, you use streets a lot rather than roads - this would also make this explanation more likely.  And what makes it the most likely explanation of all is that I can't think of anything else.  :D

Fortunately, there's an easy fix.  All you have to do is use Simulator Z (Low) - Local Edition.  Oh yeah, I've got to make it first...  :-\  There!  It's done and attached to the bottom of this post.  Please let me know how it goes.

That's quite possible - if so, it would most likely be a mod of some sort.  Neither the CAM nor the NAM should do this; I wouldn't worry about them.  And from your description, it sounds like you've eliminated my theory about water.

But you say it's not always reproducible, correct?  If you could find out what triggers it, that would be extremely helpful.

Holy moly, how many "versions" of Simulator Z do you need to make Simulator Z work in "all situations"?  It seems to me you are making more and more "specialized" versions, but yet you claim Simulator Z is perfect for every situation.

Random User Who Likes Simulator A - "Oh... I like Simulator A because of ....."
Steve (Z) - "O really, that simply is not acceptable Simulator Z can handle this...  All I have to do is make a simple quick change voila and here it is."
Jason (JPlumbley) - *Rolls Eyes yet again*
"You learn something new everyday."

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/169/nhpjplumbleykv3.gif
Bringing the new horizons closer to reality.

Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ Dedgren ♦ Ennedi Shadow Assassin ♦  Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Street Addon Mod - SAM

z

I will get to Jason's comments later.

Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on November 10, 2009, 10:37:09 AM
I definitely agree with JPlumbey about these not being minutes since there is a "convertion unit" in the simulator.

The conversion unit in the simulator is not used by the game in any way whatsoever.  This has been verified by many people.  Try setting it to any value you like, and you'll see that nothing in your game changes.

QuoteI also remembered having read something about road top mass transit lot and how they work, but not exactly where... and I do use RTMTV. Could the kind of "reseting" affecting commuter's routes each time they pass through these lots have an impact on the way the simulators are working (or at least, lead to unexpected effects...)?

The "resetting" was a theory of Jason's, promoted as fact, that was disproven by a number experiments a year ago.  RTMT has no more effect on the traffic simulators than any other transit stations.

xxdita

Quote from: z on November 10, 2009, 12:02:40 PMRTMT has no more effect on the traffic simulators than any other transit stations.

Not completely true. The capacity set by the RTMT lots greatly effect the traffic flow at that point in the road. If the capacity of the RTMT isn't set to match up with the traffic simulator in use, then you've now limited the flow of traffic between these RTMT stops, forcing anything over that capacity to find an alternate route. Unless of course you're providing a set of RTMT for every traffic sim?

sumwonyuno

I tried the latest modified Simulator Z Low and there's still tens of thousands of Sims commuting through and past the Downtown city tile.  Jobs aren't being taken because the commuters aren't exiting off the freeway.

There are 4 westbound offramps in that city tile, 2 of which only make sense for getting to jobs.  The first encountered offramp leads to an overcongested north-south roadway that also serves the high-rise area north of the freeway.  So, I thought that freeway commuters weren't getting off because of that roadway.  However, the next exit (which leads into the main avenue into Downtown) is barely used.  Only a hundred or so commuters get off at that exit.  When I tested with Simulator A, nearly all of the remaining westbound commuters got off at this offramp.  So what about the roads between that offramp and jobs?  Those roadways aren't even yellow this time.  With other versions of Simulator Z, there is much more usage on the roadways in this part of town.  I'm not sure what you're changing with the versions you're asking me.


The City & County of Honolulu, a Mayor Diary based on Honolulu, Hawai'i.

mark's memory address - I've created a blog!

jplumbley

#333
Quote from: z on November 10, 2009, 12:02:40 PM
The "resetting" was a theory of Jason's, promoted as fact, that was disproven by a number experiments a year ago.  RTMT has no more effect on the traffic simulators than any other transit stations.

Stop mis-quoting...  I did not say RTMT was worse than other transit stations.  I said ALL transit stations, and RTMT was only bad because it forced all Sims on the given route into the station, whereas if it was not on the route itself it could be bypassed.

The theory was based off of the thing we see all the time in game, Sims walking to a bus station in Maximum Commute, then doing a second commute from Bus station A to Bus station B, then a third commute of Maximum Commute walking to work from Bus station B.  It is still a relevant theory for Mass Transit Commutes, all that was proved was "through-commutes" which dont use that transit switch from one type to another type are not effected by this "reset".

Quote from: xxdita on November 10, 2009, 12:12:46 PM
Not completely true. The capacity set by the RTMT lots greatly effect the traffic flow at that point in the road. If the capacity of the RTMT isn't set to match up with the traffic simulator in use, then you've now limited the flow of traffic between these RTMT stops, forcing anything over that capacity to find an alternate route. Unless of course you're providing a set of RTMT for every traffic sim?

Also, dont forget that the different traffic types through these lots have different speeds but only one speed may be satisfied by the Transit Switch Cost.  Meaning if it is set for the speed of cars, busses and walkers (at default speeds) are set to gain an advantage for that one tile.

Quote from: sumwonyuno on November 10, 2009, 12:13:20 PM
I tried the latest modified Simulator Z Low and there's still tens of thousands of Sims commuting through and past the Downtown city tile.  Jobs aren't being taken because the commuters aren't exiting off the freeway.

There are 4 westbound offramps in that city tile, 2 of which only make sense for getting to jobs.  The first encountered offramp leads to an overcongested north-south roadway that also serves the high-rise area north of the freeway.  So, I thought that freeway commuters weren't getting off because of that roadway.  However, the next exit (which leads into the main avenue into Downtown) is barely used.  Only a hundred or so commuters get off at that exit.  When I tested with Simulator A, nearly all of the remaining westbound commuters got off at this offramp.  So what about the roads between that offramp and jobs?  Those roadways aren't even yellow this time.  With other versions of Simulator Z, there is much more usage on the roadways in this part of town.  I'm not sure what you're changing with the versions you're asking me.

He should probably be changing the Commute Time to get the same effect of Simulator A, but remember 600 is the perfect value.  Simulator A was not designed to promote Sims to go from one neighbor connection to another, which is probably why they are finding the jobs in town because they simply are forced into travelling too far to reach the other city border.  Lowering the Commute Time in Simulator Z to something much lower but maybe higher than Simulator A will most likely fix that problem.

Sorry, looking at the modified Simulator Z Low... that is what he did, there must be something else that is wrong with Simulator Z in this circumstance.
"You learn something new everyday."

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/169/nhpjplumbleykv3.gif
Bringing the new horizons closer to reality.

Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ Dedgren ♦ Ennedi Shadow Assassin ♦  Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Street Addon Mod - SAM

b22rian

Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on November 10, 2009, 02:59:30 AM
but in this case, there are PLENTY of jobs (and buildable empty ind and comm zones alike),



keep in mind the CAM has the demand bug , where the game see the residential capacity as doubled..
So in essence you need twice as many jobs for a given population with CAM as in the vanilla game.. I
know what you mean , i have some pretty large cities of my own and if you look around my cities I
have areas of big commercial and sometimes Industrials with plenty of available jobs and no workers,,
but because of the demand bug you need that situation to insure enough jobs..
Im using the Cam now for a couple of years with these cities . also
Im using sim Z (low) without any issues. I have 3 cities in my region over a million..

thanks, Brian

Pharaon-Kheops

#335
Quote from: b22rian on November 10, 2009, 01:25:03 PM
keep in mind the CAM has the demand bug , where the game see the residential capacity as doubled..

actually my CAM dat is merged with simcity_1.dat, so this bug is not active here (in fact, I decided to try the merge trick a few weeks ago in the hope it could fix my abandonment problem)

anyway, I use the census vault, wich give the real workforce and the real available jobs, to collect pop and jobs data.
"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra

z

Quote from: xxdita on November 10, 2009, 12:12:46 PM
Not completely true. The capacity set by the RTMT lots greatly effect the traffic flow at that point in the road. If the capacity of the RTMT isn't set to match up with the traffic simulator in use, then you've now limited the flow of traffic between these RTMT stops, forcing anything over that capacity to find an alternate route. Unless of course you're providing a set of RTMT for every traffic sim?

This is not the way transit stations work.

First of all, as of the RTMT v3.51 patch issued in January, there are two capacity levels for each station:  Low and High.  To quote from the Readme file:

QuoteThe Low capacity version is designed for rural areas and/or small- or medium-sized towns; it is basically designed for regions where there will never be a need for a traffic simulator with a capacity higher than the Hard version of Simulators A or B, or the Low version of Simulator Z.  In numerical terms, this translates into a road capacity of about 2500.  The High capacity version of RTMT stations is designed for all regions above that limit.

Second, transit stations don't get congested the way the game displays them, and the "Service quality" icons are completely inaccurate.  The service quality of a station at 200% capacity is just as good as the service quality at 1% - both have perfect service quality.  There is simply an undocumented limit that varies by station as to how many passengers per day the station will accept.  The minimum appears to be 400% of station capacity.  Once that minimum is reached, the station accepts no more passengers for the day.  This has been verified by many people in many different experiments.  This is also why, at least in RTMT, the inaccurate term "Service quality" has been replaced by the somewhat more accurate term "Reserve capacity."

The RTMT station capacities have been set so that these actual limits should never be reached.  Neither I nor the RTMT testers have ever seen this limit exceeded.




As for Jason's posts, though there is much to respond to there, my responses do not seem to have been helpful up until now, and I have no reason to expect that this will change.  It has come to the point where it does not seem productive for me to participate here any more.  So I will be taking my leave from this site for now.  I should know soon whether this leave is temporary or permanent.  In either case, you should hear from me at least one more time.

Pharaon-Kheops

Quote from: xxdita on November 10, 2009, 12:12:46 PM
Not completely true. The capacity set by the RTMT lots greatly effect the traffic flow at that point in the road. If the capacity of the RTMT isn't set to match up with the traffic simulator in use, then you've now limited the flow of traffic between these RTMT stops, forcing anything over that capacity to find an alternate route. Unless of course you're providing a set of RTMT for every traffic sim?

Do this means that to be really perfect, you have to modify all your RTMT pieces to exactly match your own simulator capacity values?
"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra

b22rian

Quote from: z on November 10, 2009, 09:57:10 PM



As for Jason's posts, though there is much to respond to there, my responses do not seem to have been helpful up until now, and I have no reason to expect that this will change.  It has come to the point where it does not seem productive for me to participate here any more.  So I will be taking my leave from this site for now.  I should know soon whether this leave is temporary or permanent.  In either case, you should hear from me at least one more time.

     I look forward to hearing from you soon Steve.. I know I echo the sentiments of others that should you
decide you want to leave permanently it will be a great loss to myself personally , to others involved in traffic
and transit, to the website as a whole, and to the game itself as it has evolved since you helped change it ...
in improved ways through your work both with traffic research and great work, improvements, and efforts you
have brought to road top mass transit .. I hope you will reconsider your postition here with us , as I am quite
sure your work is not yet finished here with us.. However ,  I respect your desires and wishes on a personal level
and should you decide to leave us in a permanent nature, id like to thank you for the help you have given others
through your excellent postings through the years now  and for all of us to better understand how traffic works in our game because you took the time to explain it .. I think you will be sorely missed by others here and your
work ethic and commitment to the site to make this a high quality web site (along with others here), is such
that it could never be replaced..

Your devoted friend, Brian 

Pharaon-Kheops

It is really amazing how ego considerations could ruin even the best efforts!
Z and Jplumbey, you are both great moders, and I'm sure all the community would agree to say your respective work and discoveries have been utmost for us all... Why the hell are you waring at each other like that?!? Do any of you have financial interest concerning the use of his own created simulator??? Is there a price for being the creator of the one and only simulator used in the NAM???
The reality is that there are many game style and thus the need for several traffic simulator, each adapted for a different styles... There is room for the both of you in this community and you  not even have to apreciate each other... Just keep improving your work, each with his own fans and detractors! I even hope we'll soon have more different simulators...
But please, stop this ridiculous fight! None of your sim is better than the other, they only have different goals!
"to be is to do" - Kant
"to do is to be" - Sartre
"to be or not to be" - Shakespeare
"to be do be do" - Sinatra