Hi,
I've seen the cam and read the info. I don't use mods except NAM and an industry miltiplier (can't tell which one, I'd have to search). So no big compatibility problem
The main point of CAM is just to create new levels for buildings if I understood properly. Does it really change much ?
Because I don't feel much need for it. But some great new bats exist only for CAM. So I'm thinking about installing it. But will my other downloaded building still work or do I have to download all the buildings in CAM-compliancy again? Will I be able to continue my city or have to start a new one ?
Sorry if the questions are answered somewhere, I did some search before, but maybe I missed that.
The whole purpose of the CAM is to even out growth more in cities so that skyscrapers don't appear quite so soon in development. It also adds more growth stages - up to 15 for R and C, 10 for ID, IM and I-HT and also a special development for agriculture to stage 7. Read the CAM information threads in this forum http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=185.0 and that should help you to make up your mind about whether to use it or not.
All the information about compatability and other buildings is in there. If you have any problems with the language, demandes-moi et je peux t'aider ;D
you will be able to continue your city, though sometimes there could issues with using Bats will odd or wacky stats , ( though this is true without using the CAM), they might upset the simulator and cause demand flutuations in the city.
though I do suggest starting a fresh.
The lower the stage the city is the easier it will be to intergrate it to the CAM. Larger cities can be intergrated, but may take a little while longer for the simulator to reajust the building values (most cases 5-10 yrs of running time and the city will be ok, if you deal with the new demands and transit properly)
please read the readme as per certain mods that will conflict with the CAM, if your using any listed mods in your city or region that are on the list, I don't recomend using that city with the CAM, unless your willing to deal with the issues that will pop up with their removal (adding and removing and mixing mods is always a crap shoot) Toroca's IND x4 mod is part of the CAM values, so you'll be ok there, you will notice very little difference.
The CAM buildings function the in the same format as the regular buildings, they just have higher stage values and higher stats, any buildings with higher stages(that be 4+ for IND, stage 9+ for COM and RES) the CAM will be needed so the game will reconize the new stage levels. the new buildings are set to the new X-tool values. Any building that has the original stage values 1-3 for IND or 1-8 for COM and RES, will function in your city without the CAM installed at all and the game will function normally.
All the CAM does is tell the game there are new higher stage buildings in the game (theres a bunch of techie geekie stuff to it, but for playing the game, thats all you really need to know). Don't install any 4+ or 9+ buildings in your game, you could run your game without the CAM.
CAM values do make the game a tad bit more difficult when first starting out, might have to adjust your playing style to go along with the new values, but that the chalange ...:)
Thanks. It seems installing CAM would mean more trouble than needed, I skip for that for the time being...
But I believe that it is well worth it in the end! Take a look at these examples! -> Click! (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1915.0) ;)
:thumbsup:
@Arcan, well that is your chioce, but the CAM isn't strickly super struture skyscrapers, though the tall ones seems to stand out ... theres a variety of smaller buildings and a lot of buildings just for rural type comunities. CAM was stuctured so that depending on the personel playing style of the mayors (rural vs skyscrapers) so all would be included and be able to use it.
If your playing style is not for the skyscrapers, just don't install the skyscraper buildings into your game. Just put in the rural and smaller stage buildings, or vice versa for the skyscraper mayors.
Installing the CAM would greatly increase your options playing the game, not decrease them, but to each their own.
My main problem is not the mods installed, nor starting a new city. It's rather having to download again all the cam versions of my buildings. And as not all of them exist in cam, doesn't it create problems ? I mean : I download cam and cam buildings. So a 500m building will be stage maybe 15. But I still have in my plug-ins non-cam 500m which are stage 7(?). So when I start my city I pretty soon get all my old buildings but none of the cam ? and later when the city has reached level 15 I get only the CAM buildings? It would look strange. (I'm rather a kind of skyscraper mayor Indisguise, though I like to haves maller suburbs too.)
Quote from: arcan on September 23, 2007, 11:39:20 PM
My main problem is not the mods installed, nor starting a new city. It's rather having to download again all the cam versions of my buildings. And as not all of them exist in cam, doesn't it create problems ? I mean : I download cam and cam buildings. So a 500m building will be stage maybe 15. But I still have in my plug-ins non-cam 500m which are stage 7(?). So when I start my city I pretty soon get all my old buildings but none of the cam ?
That is the reason why you shouldn't keep your old stage 7/8 skyscrapers. Having 500 m tall skyscrapers growing at stage 7/8 with occupancies that would place them in a higher CAM stage, is the main reason for the development to come to a halt and for the demand simulators not to work properly.
Quote from: arcan on September 23, 2007, 11:39:20 PM
and later when the city has reached level 15 I get only the CAM buildings? It would look strange.
Even after you've passed the highest thresholds at a regional population around 4,000,000 you would still only see about 10% of stage 15 buildings growing.
All lower stages would also still be growing. ;)
Quote from: arcan on September 23, 2007, 11:39:20 PM
(I'm rather a kind of skyscraper mayor Indisguise, though I like to haves maller suburbs too.)
With the CAM you would get both. You need much more of a sprawling city with suburbs before the CBD can reach stage 15.
And once you do reach the higher CAM stages, you will really enjoy the diversity and natural development of the skyscrapers.
okey, thanks for the info. So if I install CAM, will I have to re-download all my towers or can I just change their stage with the software provided by EA? (change the level according the height of the building) If possible this should put things right.
I'll just have to find a CAM-compliant industry multiplier, and I think I'll try to install it.
Just one point. There's something about it in the manual : is it completely compliant with NAM (event the speed multipliers) ? (as CAM changes the values too maybe there would be need to re-install NAM with the initial settings ?)
CAM and NAM go hand in hand :thumbsup:
you would need and editing program (SC4Tool, Ireader to adjust the stats of the building you currently have) you need the X-tool values as well, and with Wouanagaine MIA, I'm not sure the current status and completion of the x-Tool, you might have to ask Ripplejet, he be more informed about than I.
I can't personelly speak for the new bridges or GLR though, but rumours say good things about them.
If your using toroca's x4 IND mod, I believe the CAM values are set basicly to that. (though remove the mod as it not need with the CAM, and the CAM readme list know mods that conflict with it, please check it out)
NAM is a traffic mod, adjusts speed capasities, which there are quite a few standard to radical, deonds of your personel playing style
Also adjusts the automata (cars trucks trains etc eyecandy stuff)
now there are a lot of many different NAM puzzel pieces and now GLR dragable as well. So your able to draw in all sorts of neat and different types of road and rail transit and transit switchs (highway exchanges, rail crossings, the list goes on and on)
I suggest checking the MD section on peoples different and neat designs, some are amazing. (some are bizzare) :P
NAM doesn't effect the buildings. It adjust how the sims move about your city and region.
CAM- this adjust the values of the growable buildings, their stats, air pollution, water polution and consumtion, electricity used, building value, etc etc and thetwo big ones... occupancy (res or jobs ) and STAGE! "$Deal"$
CAM basicly takes the 1-8 RES and COM (1-3 IND) stages given to us by Maxis and extends it to 15 (8). Some of the original building were assigned new stats so you'll have some apropiate higher stage building without downloading anything at all, though the range for the Maixs building were limited.
This takes the game to new heights and now allows building that should have had higher stats but were limited to stage 8, to be given the proper stats and enable the game to GROW them.
Theres was a log jam of higher stage buildings, some you almost never see as the lower valued ones tended to grow first and sort of blocked the larger ones from appearing very often
The CAM will allow more of them to grow, spaced out evenly and still have the growth be progressive to larger buildings.
On the same note it extended the farms as well, alowing the short 1-3 stage in farms be spread across 8 stages.
Many mayors still play their game (CAM mayors too) with only farming in mind (yea know it's crazy ()what()) they have fun too. Now they also have many more new options.
If you uses older lots with the CAM , you run into the risk of :
A: doubling up on files in your plugins, same model twice, or two lots that look the same, very differnt stats (bad for lag)
B:using lots that don't go by the CAM stage stats and will basicly upset the simulator and throw it out of wack and you will get buildings growing where they shouldn't, possible stagnation as the simultor has a cow as it can't compute the stats. (eg the plugin manager assigning x100 tonnes of garbage to some BATs, or ppl assign wacky radical hidden stats etc etc those types of buildings, which also plague a lot of mayors games without the CAM as well)
Now if your sure the buildings your using have proper stats and are working, or you just hapy with them. They will work with the CAM.
Just make sure you check the readmes about updating to the CAM adjusted lots and removing older files or duplicates (cleantiol program helps).
I personelly suggest start new with the CAM and NAM, (it is almost like a whole new version of the game), don't worry about going for the big buildings at the start, they grow later in the game anyways...:)
But if you like Skyscrapers like the Doozers do...trust me, you'll luv the CAM &hlp
OK you got me on that one ! :thumbsup: I'll install it as soon as I have time.
It'ill take some time to re-adjust all my buildings values though... But if it's just changing the stage with sc-tool (or whatever the name), it's not too bad. :-\
Alternatively, if time and my other responsibilities permit, I can start a waiting list for BATs that people want CAMified.
This is only a suggestion and it should be run by Barby, RippleJet and so forth, but I would be willing to create and see to such a queue, as there are many incredible BATs that I myself would like to see CAMified.
Let me know what you (pl.) think. ;D
To make an existing bat CAM-compliant, is it enough to open SC4tool, pick 'exemplar editor" open the properties and change "growth stage" value to a more appropriate one ?
No it is, unfortunately, not. You do need the X-Tool to calculate the appropriate occupant size and all that.
Altering the growth stage with the SC4Tool alone would not be sufficient.
You also need to alter the occupant groups and various other things. It's a whole new ball game and for that you need a whole new tool. ;D
ARRRRRRGGGGGGG
So I have to delete all my beautifull buildings ? and wait for the CAM version ? :'(
wouldn"t just changing the stage make up for the game until a real CAM version comes out to replace it ? :(
As I said it would not suffice. You should, as recommended, anyway start afresh with a new region.
Ok, I've used cleanlitool to remove the two mods that are not compatible (farms multiplier and industry multiplier. I hope CAM doex multiply...)
I've installed CAM and CAM essentials.
Now, I'm installing CAM com$$$ and the corresponding buildings. Do I have to replace the files from the buildings by the one installed in another folder by the .exe ?
You should remove all the original .sc4lot and .desc files, but KEEP the .sc4model files.
I recommend that you let the Cleanitol (TM) do the work for you. That's what it is trained to do. :P
Also make use of these lists by RippleJet if you seem to hit a wall along the way. ;) -> Click! (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0)
good idea about a CAM request thread, but at this stage, I think the lotter and modders have a little bit too much on their plate ATM, though in the future, I could see this happening, Talk to Barbyw about some sort of time line when that sort of thread would be need , and be helpful... :thumbsup:
well knowing i may have some free time after the plaza mall project lotting im more than happy to offer any help in the CAM request idea..theres only 1 proble i have: dont have access to the x-tool if someone can show me the ropes i could get started with this...just a friendly offer...
True indeed, Flasimo. If more people that want to take the time and experiment with the X-tool (like myself) should be able to get their hands on it - even if it is only in beta still. This way more CAM results will come out faster, adn more bugs might be able to be worked out of the X-tool and it's development.
i.e: I's looove to re-edit many of the other HKABT buildings, as they would work well with the CAM, and bixel's collection was well worth sownloading all the prop packs. But without the X-tool, the potential for pioneers and expansion of the CAM may never be reached. PaulVMontford has many excellent un-CAMified BATs, which would look and act stunning in the developments of CAM cities. Also, I could definently use the X-tool to help with my ongoing, but slow progress of a low-wealth ultra-super-duper-megapack collection. Some of my lots are as big as 22x9, but I can't relese properly even for beta-testing until I can use the X-tool to my content, and these are lots I wouldn't feel comfortable releasing under anything less than stage 9 here.
Second, this will increase the popularity of the CAM acrosse the board, and may even seep into ST more than it has (which might actuallly not be a good thing - n00bs cloggin the forums, so NVM about that) ;)
IN any event, the CAM should stay fairly exclusive, but it should also be open to more that fifteen [magnificent] players here at SC4devotion.
Copyright SEANADKINS_writingmaster.inc all rights reserved 2007. "$Deal"$
Quote from: Indisguise on September 24, 2007, 03:07:57 PM
good idea about a CAM request thread, but at this stage, I think the lotter and modders have a little bit too much on their plate ATM, though in the future, I could see this happening, Talk to Barbyw about some sort of time line when that sort of thread would be need , and be helpful... :thumbsup:
Quote from: M4346 on September 24, 2007, 08:34:02 AM
Alternatively, if time and my other responsibilities permit, I can start a waiting list for BATs that people want CAMified.
I know I might not be good, but I can at least offer. :P
I cannot answer your posts Filasimo or Rushman as I cannot speak on behalf of Wou re: the X-Tool, but I do know that, as Jeronij said elsewhere, it is far from complete or perfect, yet. It would be unfair and detrimental to the community to release it en masse, even in BETA.
Regarding the "X" Tool:
It consists of two parts, the Extended Plugin Manager (PIM-X) and the BSC LotEditor.
At the moment, only the PIM-X is functional, albeit not even close to ready.
The development of the LE part has only just started (in June), and at the moment you can only make a basic lot with it.
No editing or tweaking of lots is available yet.
The PIM-X part is in beta version 35 at the moment, but still far from ready.
Especially the properties relating to making civic buildings are still being formulated...
If and when Wouanagaine returns (please!) the first priority would be to get the PIM-X ready, and release a first public beta after that.
At the moment we cannot release it as it is. That would only lead to more problems with buildings having wacky stats.
Those who currently have access to the tool are aware of this and are mainly producing growable buildings.
If you want to make a CAMeLot today, please just send the SC4model file either to me or Barby and we'll return a basic lot with a properly modded building exemplar included.
For a normal growable building or a functional landmark that's a very simple process and won't take us too long to make.
I am not saying nobody else will get access to the "X" Tool at the moment, but the first step for those interested would be to open up a candidacy for the LEX.
@ rushman what I was implementing was that I was offering to help the team convert buildings to CAM not asking for the program...big difference there guy. there is a difference between asking for the program and offering your help to the team....sorry if i sounded like i wanted the program like everyone else M and RippleJet was offering my services :thumbsup:
Quote from: RippleJet on September 24, 2007, 11:46:56 PM
Those who currently have access to the tool are aware of this and are mainly producing growable buildings.
If you want to make a CAMeLot today, please just send the SC4model file either to me or Barby and we'll return a basic lot with a properly modded building exemplar included.
For a normal growable building or a functional landmark that's a very simple process and won't take us too long to make.
I am not saying nobody else will get access to the "X" Tool at the moment, but the first step for those interested would be to open up a candidacy for the LEX.
You could also send it to me to keep Ripplejet and BarbyW free to do more complex stuff and I will make sure you get a CAMpatible lot file asap.
I see what you all are saying now.
Quote from: RippleJet on September 24, 2007, 11:46:56 PM
Regarding the "X" Tool:
For a normal growable building or a functional landmark that's a very simple process and won't take us too long to make.
I am not saying nobody else will get access to the "X" Tool at the moment, but the first step for those interested would be to open up a candidacy for the LEX.
I also appreciate you replying ripplejet. So if lot makers create lots to be CAMified, you'd do it in a short amount of time?
Quote from: rushman5 on September 25, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
I see what you all are saying now.
I also appreciate you replying ripplejet. So if lot makers create lots to be CAMified, you'd do it in a short amount of time?
Yes. If you send me the model, you'd get a CAMeLot back in less than 5 minutes ;)
insta-reply eh?
Ok, what if I am using not my own model, but the Bransfield house, for example, the was done by 674586. . . something like that at ST. If i have created a mega-lot with that building, and send you the lot, desc, and model files, it would be just that easy?
Yes! ;D
Ok I'm almost done downloading and installing all the CAM files to modify the bats. I just have the habitations left and then erasing all the plugins that are not cam...
Is there a thread explaining hot to CAM-ify a lot ? (what to change, which tool to use, how to know which stage the building is in CAM,...) ? I'd like maybe to try it on one or two I want to keep.
The formulas for calculating the most important property, the capacity of RCI buildings can be found here:
"X" Tool: Capacity Calculations and Floorage (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2308.0)
The Stage Limits for both CAMeLots and normal lots can be found here:
CAM - Stage Limits and Stage CAP's (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1987.0)
When you've calculated and changed the Growth Stage of your lot, you should add the appropriate CAM Occupant Groups:
CAMeLot Counter and Occupant Groups (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2103.0)