Terraforming Teton

[beskhu3epnm]

OK OK!! I missed this one, as I have been kind of away over the last little bit...

Where to start on this one! pvarcoe you've outdone yourself immensely on this one. dedgren made a point earlier about the game being called SimCity..., not SimForest, or SimRuralArea, etc. etc.

I worry about these things myself when I try to make a map like Grand Teton National Park. After all, there is a lot of wasted space being taken up by mountains where a perfectly good city would fit. I assume that many people are drawn to SimCity to make cities, not scenic vistas for cities. I try to combine both!

Thanks to members like dedgren and yourself (jacqulina deserves a mention here too!) I get to see things done on SC4 that I could never have imagined. The terrain features and flora mods/rock mods/water mods simply add to the amazement.

Reading your posts brought me back to a time when I had to discover all of that stuff. To me it was frustrating. We followed a similar path, and share a similar line of thinking. All it takes is a map that you really want to look perfect, and not being able to find a way to make it so.

Also, must have taken hours to drop that many trees on all of those tiles..... how about an estimate of time on that? I bought some new PC equipment recently, and can fill a tile in about 30 seconds.... however with my old stuff (similar to yours) it took awhile.

A map is just a map... This end result is... fascinating! You'll hear from me again on this one.

[Ajax]

That second pic is spectacular!  So if I understand you correctly, this was done with cycledogg's tree controller without any fine tuning?  If so, that is just amazing.  I'll have to go back and see which controller and terrain mod you are using because I am really impressed with the results.  I'm still using the Columbus mod and have yet to check out some of the new ones that have been released.

[Alfred.Jones]

You are doing amazing work Pvarcoe Awesome mountains

[sebes]

Fantastic work pvarsoe. Looking forward to your next update.

I am kind of new in these things, but do I understand correctly that the computer chooses what tree to grow under what condition, not you #?¿?¿?$  Where is this world going 

[pvarcoe]

Seeing as I've completely lost track of what update I'm on.... Should I include just my actual updates, or my replies sections too. To look like I know what I'm doing I will include any update that uses the title bar. That makes this:

Update 5 - Seams seams seams.


I suspect anyone who has worked on terraforming regions has to deal with seams showing between city tiles. The become evident when looking at the region views. If your elevations don't match, you can always use the reconcile tool, but that's pretty much a nightmare (at least for me). Fortunately, using NHP maps has solved the "matching elevation" issues for me, as I won't do much terraforming by hand. I'm pleased to say I haven't had to use the reconcile tool even once in Teton.

But... Trees and forests are another story. If you've plopped trees in adjacent city tiles, you must have had to deal with getting those density of trees to match. And then even when you get the densities close, you end up with visible seams between city tiles when viewing them in region views.

The Cycledogg tree controller(Olympic) that I have been using is very helpful in this regard. The controller determines, based on it's preset parameters, the type of tree and the max density of tree in a given area. So when I used the god-mode floral brush to forest a city tile and used it long enough, a maximun density of trees are laid. Adjacent city tiles were done in the same way, and as a result adjacent tiles looked pretty good next to each other.

But in region view, these awful seams would appear between tiles.
This shot is a shot taken in the Sim City 4 region view of a darker treed area


Plus, in the area close to the southern lake, the trees were lighter and I didn't populate them at full density, and as a result I had density issues as well as seams. You can see the result in the next screenshot.

This shot is a shot taken in the Sim City 4 region view in a lightly treed area.


I really liked the look of the lighter density. It's proximity to the lake makes it a natural spot for the largest city in the region.

But, I came to the conclusion, if I wanted to do a reasonable job at getting the densities to match without taking a year to accomplish it, I would have to compromise a little(*gasp* no). The decision was made to tree these areas to maximum density using the god-mode flora brush. The tree types are smaller at least and should produce the consistant results I desired.

This screenshot shows the original density and size of the trees in the "lighter" area.



Here we go a zoom level in, and see the types and density of the trees quite well.


I fired up the god-mode floral brush and went to town.

This shot show the difference between a partial density area on the right, versus a complete density on the left.



Here is a real close in pic of the trees at full density in the area. Compare it to the shot, 2 pics back.



So, backing out to the region view, we see the correct density (or at least improved), but of course the old seams as well.



And the seams are evident in region view right up to the base of the mountains.


Now, if you are working in a region, and opening and saving multiple city tiles at a sitting, you know this takes a bit of time. I don't go closing down Sim City 4, and firing up Region Census between each saved city, to see what it looks like. But I happened to open Region Census right after one of these "treeing sessions" and noticed something which had not previously caught my eye. The majority of the seams were gone.

This is exactly the same region, but the shot is taken in region census. Compare it to the shot 2 pics back. So for the most part, the seams issue for me is solved. I'm not sure why, but obviously Region Census creates a superior screenshot to the in-game region shot.



Voila Here's a final and full look at the region to date. Most seam issues have been cleaned up. A little more density tweaking, and then onto water.



Thanks for checking Teton out.
Hope your continuing to find things of interest.
Next update (er, not including feedback updates, yikes!) will focus on the southern lake area.

Note to self: I've got to get it in gear and start putting names to prominent areas of Teton.

[thundercrack83]

Well, this is another educational update. Using the region census to get better boundaries between squares is a great idea! Thanks! The different densities of trees look good, too. I'll be back for the next update, looking for the names you give some of the places as part of your "note to self."

[bat]

Wonderful update! And I like this region!

[wouanagaine]

Great pictures ! Can't imagine the time you spent on planting trees

One note about loading time etc.., just remove everything from your plugins ( save it somewhere else ) and just leave the texture/terrain mod and the trees and water mod. This will lead to a less than 50 Megs plugins something quite small for SC4 that you won't notice a loading time ( comparing to the vanilla game ), and will speed up the loading time when swapping between 2 cities

[petercintn]

I've really enjoyed reading this diary.  I've been playing around with the Meadowshire Terrain mod and the Meadowshire River Tree Mod for the last few weeks and as I posted in another thread here, it's brought back the love for SC4.  I liked 3000 better than the vanilla SC4 and gave up on it quick to play 3000.  But one day I found Simtropolis and it was on.  Had to spend a thousand bucks to upgrade my slow old 'puter just to play with all the plugins I liked.  Got bored with it again, but lately it seems to me great strides have been taken by the SC4 Mod Gods, and I for one am greatful.  

I am looking forward to the next update, superb work pvarcoe.

[keithsed]

  Great work. 

I love the look of the snow on the peaks, bare slopes and then the trees. 

Keith

[Alfred.Jones]

That is insane Keep it up mate

[TheTeaCat]

amazing patience you have just to get rid of the seams! but what an improvement for the resulting pictures

[pvarcoe]

Update 6, replies and some water shots.



Thanks folks for the kind replies!


LP_Green - Thanks LP, I have a mountain based update coming soon!
your_adress_here - The trees too far into the snowline was always a concern of mine too. Thanks for checking in.
beskhu3epnm - Very very kind comments, thank you! I've been giving your question some thought, and I would say , including saving the city tile, about 10 minutes per tile.
Ajax - Heya Ajax, welcome back. I'm using the Meadowshire terrain mod, and the Olympic tree controller.
Alfred.Jones - Thanks Alfred!
sebes - Welcome to Teton sebes, thanks for the kind words.
thundercrack83 - Thank you thundercrack83. I'm working on names as we speak.
bat - Good to see you here again bat. Thanks for the compliments.
wouanagaine - Hi and welcome here. I have actually done just that and emptied my plugins folder (except terrain and tree mods). It hasn't run this fast in ages.
petercintin - Welcome petercintin. I know what you mean. Some of these new mods are just great. Thanks for the kind words.
keithsed - Thank you. The terrain and tree mods allow me to achieve pretty much exactly the look I was hoping for.
Alfred.Jones - Welcome back, more pics coming!
TheTeaCat - Hmm, I've never thought of myself as patient, but thanks. The end results are worth the effort.



Jackson lake dominates the southern end of my Teton region.

Many of my updates are rather "text heavy", so this one has a little more emphasis on pictures. The lake is created with game water and uses the water mod called "the SMP Paradise Blue Water Mod". You can find the water mod at this link.

Enough about building the game for a moment(and only a moment). Let's lay out the background for Jackson lake.

The lake is the major body of water in the region. It lays at the southern end of the region. It sits at an elevation of about 1800 meters above sea level. It didn't exist in the area until the major global warmimg catastrophies of the 2020's (cmon, cut me a little slack, I had to come up with something). With previously developed land now unusable all over the country, the government opened up this area for unlimited development (hey this is starting to sound plausible).

Most existing development in this area from the twentieth century is gone. What's left is the town of Jackson, which with sits right on the shoreline of Jakson lake. And perhaps a transportation link to the outside world. A north-south highway used to run right through this valley. I will probably try to follow it's original route with a railway to start.



Jackson Lake runs right up to the mountains' base to both the east and the west. The numbers on the map correspond to the sets of following screenshots.



# 1, Jackson Bay, this area will be a spot we regularily visit as it is the spot where the town of Jackson meets the lake. The upper bay in this shot is East Jackson Bay and is the spot where the real day town of Jackson lays. There is no such thing as a flat spot on this map so any development is going to be a challenge. The lower bay is called uhhhh, how about West jackson Bay.



This shot is similiar to the previous shot, flipped around. It gives a good perspective of looking down over the townsite area.



Moving in a little closer gives us a good idea of shorsline vegatation in the area.



We're looking here at an area that will eventually have mostly roads and concrete. It will be a challenge to retain some of the natural look.



We are looking here at the West Jackson Bay. I think eventually the townsite will spill right over the top of the central noll and fill into this bay area too.





# 2, Not Far from Jackson bay is Boyles Hill. It's distinct hook-like shape makes it an interesting spot to study.



Zooming in, we can see an nearly attatched island point.



An interesting mix of vegetation populates the un-named island.



The neck of this peninsula connects to the mainland where stands of pine dominate.




# 3, Elk Island sits out in the middle of the lake. I can't see ever developing this spot except perhaps as a park.




Shale Bars appear even in the middle of the lake. Part of the final water color look in this lake is created by the shallowness of the lake itself. That gives a rocky look under the water, which I think is fairly realistic to actual mountain lakes and streams.




# 4, The Southwest corner has several feeder rivers to the lake.



A lot of low elevation area exists here and has some pretty neat trees and shrubs.



Here's the mouth of one of the largest rivers in the region. It's name is still pending.



Little bays and inlets dot this stretch of shoreline. The terrain mod creates a pretty unique look.




# 5, The West Shore slope quickly up the mountains to the west. Dense forest is typical in this area.




# 6, Across the lake lays the eastern shorline. From the top of the first ridge we get a good view looking backwards to the lake.




# 7, Last stop in our tour of the lake, takes us to the southestern corner. Here the mountains rise quickly from the surface of the lake.



In the shadow of the eastern mountains the forest is extremely thick. That might be an indication of plenty of moisture and shade.



In this view we get a good picture of this portion of the shoreline. The existing highway mentioned earlier, runs along the bottom of this mountain. It looks like this will be the route I run the north-south railway. It will be a challenge to grade the rail line appropriately and keep it looking realistic.





That's about it for this update, hope you enjoyed the fresh pics. Next full update I plan to bring some mountain shots.
Thanks for checking Teton out!

[Giligone]

**dies**

Ok, wow... umm, I dont even know what to say. That is beyond amazing. I found your old CJ on ST just a bit too late but this one is just starting and I found it! Mwahahah. That region is absolutely gorgeous. I agree with Dedgren, best mountains ever. I never thought a region in sc4 could look so amazing. At first when I read dedgren's rant I was like "so true" but now after seeing what you've done here I think, theres hope! haha.. at least for someone with great patience (that is not me). Just amazing. I think that whoever is responsible for opening the region up for development should be shot, thats too beautiful. Buuut having said that I eagerly look forward to seeing how this progresses. I'm definately going to be watching this. Keep it up!

[dedgren]

Giligone

**dies**

Yup, me too.

Oh, man, Phil...this is just fabulous!

Indexing the places by number to a larger view of the area really helps create a sense of place.  Don't worry about the back story part, either.  At first, it'll feel a little lame, but once you start fleshing in enough detail it will take on a life of its own.

TT's being watched...take that to the bank.


David

[emilin]

So good! So very very good! The choice of terrain/water/tree mods looks so perfect that it almost feels kind of wrong that you should build something on it.

Waiting with great anticipation for whatever this may turn into.

[bat]

This lake is very fantastic! Looking forward to the mountain shots!

[Alek King of SC4]

very nice work and excellent use of mods.

[thundercrack83]

Wow! I love the names and the index map to go along with it. Everything is very well planned out, and, of course, your terraforming skills are fantastic! Also, I love the water you're using, too. I'm sure it's posted some in an earlier update, but could I prevail upon to tell me again which one you're using?

[Darmok]

Phil, I just finished reading your thread....
One word come to mind...
Breathtaking!
Not only did you chose a gorgeous map, but you're really doing something great with it.
As I said to David in 3RR, I'll try to keep my tuesday mornings open for SC4 Devotion visits.
So far I really like what I saw, and I can't wait to see how you'll integrate human development in such a beautiful natural setup!

Take care my friend

-John