RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[kassarc16]

I usually just transition to a highway for the connection. I don't use a median too much, and it's not a hassle to use the s-curve to close that gap. On a related note, can we get a 2-tile s-curve somewhere down the line?

[jplumbley]

I have an idea (maybe not a good one, but it's an idea).



What if you made a lot with a generic "grass" texture and put an overhanging prop that consisted of enough RHW to cover the adjacent quad transition at elevation x+1 on it.  It would cover the transition- buddybud was doing amazing stuff with a technique like this, as I recall.  You could do a second small overhanging lot with, say, a dirt median crossover on it to hide the rhw section on the middle.

Just a thought, but as I said, it's been done.


David

David, this is not a "bad" idea.  But, we can make these textures look the way we want when using a puzzle piece.  I think what Tarkus was showing was the functionality, and how there are issues with functionality we must work around for this to work.

There is one BIG limiting factor.

The limiting factor is that one tile networks assume that the Sim leaving through the connection is returning within the same tile.  For two tile networks it assumes that the Sim is returning in the directly adjacent tile.  There is absolutely no way for us to change this or make a one tile network think it is a two tile network.

So, what does this tell us?

It tells us that the paths of a neighbor connection must be setup in a very strict fashion.  For RHW, this means that traffic must enter/exit the same tile it enters the neighbor connection.  Here are two examples of how paths for RHW-4 would have to be setup.

Example 1:



As shown, the green paths are the normal RHW-4 one way paths.  But, to make the connection to work physically, we must add the red paths so that Sims may cross the median to get back to the proper side of the highway.

There is one big flaw with this setup.  The neighbor connection will have a capacity equal to the 2 tiles crossing the mdeian because ALL traffic will use these two tiles.  Due to the way the Capacities of intersections are setup in the Traffic Simulator these two tiles will be reduced to 90% capacity, OR 45% of the total capcity of your entire highway as a whole.  This reduction is made even worse with "wider highways".

Example 2:



Is very similar to Example 1 but has one major difference the paths are separated in 2 cross paths rather than 1.  This makes it so the "weakest link" Capacity-wise is the Intersection, which defined in my new Simulators has a Capacity of 150%.  This means that you will have a reduction to 75% total capacity, which is better than Example 1.  This setup can also be transferred to the wider networks by having a number of cross paths equal to the width of the entire network (RHW-10 will be 4 tiles, meaning 4 cross path tiles), even at RHW-10 we will still be getting a reduction to 75% capacity but it is much better than no connection at all.

[Splambert]

Hello first of all I just want to say that I like the RHW and can't wait for updates. I would also like to share a project I

started and would like some feedback on that I hope can be used for the RHW. I have built a modular cloverleaf that

is one corner of the interchange so you would need 4 to make a full interchange. I also noticed that it could easily be

used to make an avenue cloverleaf. The pics. attached are untextured low quality models as I haven't found the right

textures yet. I also need to model the bridge puzzle pieces to connect between them

Let me know if this is something that could be used or not and what could be changed

[j-dub]

Well what dimensions did you use for the models? Did you use 15.963 by 15.963 RHW single tile? Thats if it was 2 side by side lanes. I have RHW textures 2 side by side or 3 side by side lanes for texturing hwy models in BAT like yours, if your interested. If you were going to do this, is merging off the ramps considered? Someone also made default transit textures for gmax on Simtropolis which includes avenue, but that I think has sidewalk, unless you want to sidewalk over the top of your avenue model. As for the ramps, that may just require some plain gray cement, I think the default ground highway is like that on the ramps. If it was for avenues, you could talk to a NAM team member if you wanted it puzzle pieced like the y stack.

[Splambert]

My dimensions are close to that but I wasn't sure what they needed to be but I can easily change them. As for the Hwy textures I sure could use them. As far as merging of the ramps it could be done as the model I made is easily changed for various combinations and some parts were just put there to get a better idea of how the model would look. As it is now it could connect to RHW6 or could be changed to match RHW4 or I could do both.

The avenue idea is still open as it just came to me as I was playing around with different combinations but that would be a good idea.

As soon as I can get some textures I can get a better model done and go from there

[dedgren]

David, this is not a "bad" idea.  But, we can make these textures look the way we want when using a puzzle piece.  I think what Tarkus was showing was the functionality, and how there are issues with functionality we must work around for this to work.

Well, I'm one of those who is picky about appearance and functionality, to a point.  From the appearance standpoint, that's what you see 95 percent of the time.  It's only rarely that you use the Rush Hour tool to determine how much traffic.  I'm not one for pure eye-candy network stuff, though- it does need to "work"in the game.  Remember Marrast's old underpasses- they were beautiful, but ultimately lacked functionality (until recently remodded).

Functionality-wise, I could give a rip about U-Drive-It, and close to a rip about automata.  Have you ever just sat and watched automata cars and trucks.  Even when the game is working at 100%, they disappear, reappear, drive through each other- you name it.  Either solution discussed has wrong way automata, it would appear, driving across the median and down the shoulder.  That would be a distraction, but sounds unavoidable.

The important functionality part is the business end of traffic pathing and the vehicle counts that the Rush Hour tool shows as pop-up boxes and arrows.  That really, really, really needs to work (of course, I may be more into region level play than some).  The great thing about RHW-4 is the ability, oddly enough, to create realistic freeways- two lanes of traffic in each direction separated by a wide grass median.  I have somewhere the original design specs for a notional non-urban U.S. Interstate Highway right-of-way cross section.  The R.O.W. is, as I recollect, 300 feet/~90 meters wide, with two (including shoulders) 150 foot/~45 meter wide two-lane roadways and a 50 foot/16 meter wide grass median.  The RHW is (almost) perfect for this, as well as providing a (limited) current ability (and the huge future promise of being able) to build realistically scaled non-urban interchanges.  If I could possibly avoid it, I would not put another "game" ground or elevated highway section in any non-urban area of 3RR.  The current state of the RHW is amazing- where it is headed is mind-boggling.

Would someone, as I can't (as admitted elsewhere) BAT for poop, be willing to indulge me and create the flat prop that I noted a few posts ago.  My guess is that it will need to be precisely three grid squares wide so that it will overhang properly.  I can LOT the prop on a transparent base texture lot- at least we'd then have something to evaluate.

Thanks for humoring me on this.


David

[nerdly_dood]

I really like what Splambert is trying to do.  When I try to make a cloverleaf interchange using the MIS, it always ends up HUGE and I don't like intersections that are ecxessively big - in SimCity or RL. Keep it up!

[j-dub]

It kind of takes alot of space in the small citie squares, if the RHW has to go through there, this is a good alternative. The RHW is more straight/diagonal ramps, this is continuosly curved ramping. I bet the two can be compined.

[RBC]

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked (and maybe several times), but here we go:

The modular interchanges - where are they ingame!? I can't find them, and they not shown in the pic in the readme neither! What point have I missed? Is there another file than this to be downloaded:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19188

?

[Glazert]

RBC: I suggest you read Filasimo's Rural Highway Mod V20 Reference Guide available here on SimCity4 Devotion at http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3355.0 .

[RBC]

I already did, Glazert - a few times actually. But thank you, for your answer. Anyway, I found out, what went wrong. I was looking for a special narrow intersection-tile this whole time, and just now I found out, that you have to use the regular RHW-tile to continue the on and off ramps.

Looking forward to create some fine interchanges now. This is an extraordinary great kid!

[Glazert]

I was working on an interchange which involved one-way road over RHW. I noticed that once it was plopped the vehicle pathing on the one-way showed up (using DrawPaths) in the opposite direction to that shown by the white arrows on the one-way road over RHW piece. Now I know, I just have to plop the piece in the opposite direction to the one the white arrows show.

For the one-way road over MIS piece, the vehicle pathing once plopped is in both directions, not just in the direction shown by the white arrows on the one-way road over MIS piece. This should not cause any problems if it is connected up to one-way roads in the right way.

In case this has any relevance (though I can't see how with one-way roads) I am using left hand drive.

[el_cozu]

I downloaded the RHW and is kinda dificult to use... since some of the pieces are not that functional as you pointed out.

Im waiting for the v 21 so i can start using it...

another thing is that the automata speeds are waaaay to slow and it kinda freaks me out cus i can see the sims using the avenue to enter the highway and sudenly they slow down... and i think "what da... they will never get to work... i better use the normal ground hw"

so i am... until this bug is fixed 

[kassarc16]

another thing is that the automata speeds are waaaay to slow and it kinda freaks me out cus i can see the sims using the avenue to enter the highway and sudenly they slow down... and i think "what da... they will never get to work... i better use the normal ground hw"

If the automata are slow on all of the RHW network, it's usually because you have base Maxis settings for them. Use one of the NAM Automata files, you might have removed it since they were originally in the Cleanitol file for the new simulators. Try reinstalling one of them and see if that fixes the problem.

[Tarkus]

el_cozu, the automata are also only a visual/aesthetic effect, and they really have no impact on the actual functionality of the network.  If you're using jplumbley's simulators, the Maxis Highways and the RHW will have the same speed.  Your automata plugin, however, might not have the automata effect scaled to the proper speed, though.  I'd suggest testing out some of the automata options included with the June 2007 NAM Installer. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

[el_cozu]

I'd suggest testing out some of the automata options included with the June 2007 NAM Installer. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

I know the automata speeds are visual effects... and the sims actually move faster than they seem to do... it just freaks me out that they slow down when they enter the RHW

Ok... now...

Which automata option do you recomend... just one file so i can see the automata speeds, as you say, the same as the normal highway.

??

thanks... good luck

[Haljackey]

I have a question for you guys:

Is it possible to make a RHW-4 using the old side-by-side drag method with version 20?  The new starter puzzle pieces are great for long and intricate stretches, but I find the old method is better for tight urban stretches that almost always override the network with version 20.  Anyways thanks in advance!

Best,
-Haljackey

[Tarkus]

el_cozu, I've actually been running the NAM Standard Automata Plugin without any slowdown issues on the RHW.  I'd suggest experimenting around with the various options (if you want to try them out without using the NAM Installer, I'd suggest getting the MacOS version of the NAM--all the files are loose in there).  mott also had an Automata Plugin that he included with one of his last Alpha of his simulator, which adjusts the speeds to make them more realistic, though it decreases the number of automata showing up a fair amount. 

Haljackey, to answer your question, it is not possible to build an RHW-4 with the old side-by-side method any more, starting with v20.  All of the coding enabling it was removed.  This is something that we did not only to make the network easier to build overall, it also had to do with "transparency" purposes, to allow for better integration of the NAM and RHW.  The RULs for the RHW are actually now included no matter what when you download the NAM (beginning with the January update), regardless of whether or not you have the RHW installed.  The new starter piece method allows us to "conceal" things for those users who don't have the RHW installed, whereas that would not really be the case if we left the side-by-side method in tact.  It is also a lot more stable overall.

If you're having problems using the pieces in certain circumstances, I would recommend bulldozing the starter piece right in the middle (the ever-so-slightly off-color tile), which will reveal the "false intersections" which are enabling the RHW-4 override.  You can then bulldoze one of the false intersections, leaving one (so there is still something to initiate the override), and this should provide the most stable way to build an RHW-4 over a short stretch.

Hope that helps!

-Alex (Tarkus)

[Haljackey]

You can then bulldoze one of the false intersections, leaving one (so there is still something to initiate the override), and this should provide the most stable way to build an RHW-4 over a short stretch.

So your saying that the diagonal road "stub" (the false intersection, right?) left behind will also initiate an override?  If so, I never knew that!  That will really help me when constructing RHWs in a dense urban setting.

Thanks for the quick reply too! 

Best,
-Haljackey

[Tarkus]

Yes, the diagonal road "stub" is what does it--that's actually how I build my RHWs and SAM Streets most of the time.   It's no problem--just glad I could help. 

-Alex (Tarkus)