What causes Prop Pox (and how to avoid it)

[z]

Dahemac, thank you very much for your detailed explanation, pictures, and file listings.  They make absolutely clear what the problem is, and also how to fix it.

Specifically, the problem is the following:

The Unpoxed City with a SG Bus Stop without its shelter. The missing shelter was caused when SG_BusStopXX.dats were replaced.

The RTMT v3.60 instructions do not state anywhere that you should replace the original SG bus stop files.  In fact, replacing them can be deadly, as you have discovered.  Here's what happened:

Before your installation of RTMT v3.60, everything was running fine.  But then when you installed RTMT v3.60, instead of just adding the SG .dat files to the RTMT Models folder, as the directions instruct, you used them to replace the existing SG .dat files.  This is where the problem arose.  The original RTMT versions of these files were identical to SimGoober's; hence the identical name.  But this turned out to cause problems for people who used both versions of the bus stops.  The problem was that once RTMT v3.60 was installed, you no longer got just the standalone SG bus stops that you had loaded, but you could get any of them.  This was happening because the .dat files contained not only the models, but also the prop exemplars for the standalone bus stops, which were constructed by SimGoober so as to put all the props in the same group.

To fix this problem, I removed the prop exemplars from the RTMT version of these files.  I left the names the same for compatibility with the original v3.60, so that people updating v3.60 would automatically have those files overwritten.

When you replaced SG's original .dat files with the RTMT ones, though, you effectively removed all his prop exemplars.  That's why his bus stops suddenly had no props.  And then when you bulldozed one of these bus stops, the game tried to remove a timed prop that had a prop ID pointing to it, and which existed at one time, but which now no longer existed in the Plugins folder anywhere.  The game apparently got confused enough by this that during the deletion process, the prop subfile got corrupted.  The saved game had no disabled props because when the lot was bulldozed, there were no props to disable.

This has the larger implication that the pox has to do with deleting timed props, but is not necessarily connected with disabled props.  The only reason we thought that disabled props were involved is that generally, when you delete a prop, it exists, and therefore becomes disabled.  But your example has shown that this is not necessary.

So to fix everything, here are the steps you should take.  Your RTMT v3.60 appears to have a number of installation errors, and I'll point these out along the way.

• First, make a copy of both your city and your entire Plugins folder so that those who want to explore this more fully can do so.
• Next, remove and reinstall the original SG_BusStop*.dat files that you were using from SimGoober's standalone distribution.
• Reinstall RTMT v3.60 over your existing installation, following the instructions in the Readme very carefully.  (BTW, none of the files you highlighted in red are a problem.)
• I notice that your Signs subfolder has only two files in it.  There should be dozens here - almost one for every possible RTMT station.  Are these files somewhere else?  Without them, I would expect you to be getting brown boxes on essentially all your RTMT stations.
• Be sure to overwrite existing files when duplicates exist.

Once you do all this, everything should work fine.

If you search for RTMT in the search field on the left of the page it will take you to the RTMT. You could also use advanced search and look for things created by z.

For most of the RTMT downloads, this is correct, but you need to get the original RTMT v3.50, which is still necessary at this point, and which needs to be installed first.

[finaltable]

Great Job z!  Way to track down the problem, man this forum really has some great people in it.

[dahemac]

Well, I may have sorted out my plugins folder. I will go through the installation again I think to see if I have missed anything obvious. However it looks like in any version of the city if I bulldoze an SG Bus Stop I will get pox. I will investigate further, however I think that in the existing city any old version of the SG Bus Stops is a prop pox land mine.

[Lowkee33]

This has the larger implication that the pox has to do with deleting timed props, but is not necessarily connected with disabled props. 

Takes my theoretical angle away.

@Dahemac:  What happens if you burn the lots down?

[z]

Well, I may have sorted out my plugins folder. I will go through the installation again I think to see if I have missed anything obvious. However it looks like in any version of the city if I bulldoze an SG Bus Stop I will get pox. I will investigate further, however I think that in the existing city any old version of the SG Bus Stops is a prop pox land mine.

This implies that your Plugins folder still has problems.  I would suggest first going through it and removing all SG_BusStop*.dat files, wherever they reside.  Next, completely remove the standalone SG bus stops, and then reinstall them, following their installation instructions exactly.  This should completely remove the cause of the pox in your cities.

[dahemac]

Bwa ha ha ha ha. As it turns out the problem had it roots in an update I did to the SG Bus Stops on March 17. The version on the LEX is more current than the one I was using up to that point.

I have sorted out the plugins, however I needed to go back to a city save file from before that update for the problem to vanish.

I have not as yet tried burning a lot down.

[Exla357]

Well thought out approach, a great public service message to all SC4 players. A well-earned Karma Point from me!

[packersfan]

I'm testing my city tile that keeps getting the Pox...Every backup I've gone to is already over 16mb in the network file and they show no signs of the Pox until I put a lot of work into the tile, then it pops up...I'm testing an earlier backup which was already over 16mb, but nothing is happening.  I feel like when I test the pox hides, but when I actually play and work on a tile for real the pox will manifest.  Here's to more testing

[MandelSoft]

How to minimize the effect of the Prop Pox?

Currently I have three cities that show signs of the Prop Pox. Although this is very annoying, I've found three tips to minimize the effect of the Prop Pox:

1. Play in Low Detail settings!
Yeah, I know, the game looks ugly when you set your stettings low, but it has its advantages. Not only does it improve peformance, but also it makes CTDs due to camera movement to occur less frequently and it also helps against the Prop Pox. You see, the Prop Pox occurs when a certain file reaches a certain size, and when it reaches it, it begins to shrink. However, when you set your city detail level to low, a lot of props become disabled, and from my experience the game doesn't save disabled props, so the Prop Pox will occur later. And when it does occur, no need to worry. When you set your city detail settings to high again (for an MD update for instance), all props will appear, as if there were no Prop Pox at all.
2. Save in Zoom 1.
Just like the above, when you're in Zoom 1 with low detail settings, lots of props get disabled and will not be saved, limiting the effect of the Prop Pox.
3. Planted trees are not props.
Trees planted in God Mode or Mayor Mode will not dissappear due to the Prop Pox. Try to avoid tree filler lots and plant God/Mayor Mode trees instead.


I hope this information might be usefull to you 

Best,
Maarten

[TiFlo]

3. Planted trees are not props.
Trees planted in God Mode or Mayor Mode will not dissappear due to the Prop Pox. Try to avoid tree filler lots and plant God/Mayor Mode trees instead.
(...)I hope this information might be usefull to you 
Maarten

That's a neat one, I had no idea about it. Thanks a lot Maarten!

[packersfan]

I've decided to start my infected tile fresh.  Can I just obliterate the city?  Or do I need to rerender the region and import a fresh tile.  Any ideas?  I've tried the little workaround that replaces props, but it would be too much work to keep replopping trees onto tiles, etc, and the enjoyment is lost working on my core city tile, so I want to restart the tile.

[j-dub]

It is safe to rebuild in the space where the old infected city was, but I am just going to tell you my experience with redoing in the same spot.

My experience when I redid a city tile, is I used the same name, and for whatever reason, using the same city name, eventually it did crash, but when I used a different name, only altering it slightly, where it would crash before, it would not. This was a little too suspicious to crash from a different issue.

Instead of obliterating in the city I used the trash can icon in region view. The first time, I used obliterate when inside. The second time I had to be safe and used the icon in region view. Hopefully this will not happen, but no pox, yet after redoing the city tile in that spot. I have had to redo two large cities in the same reason. One of them, was not so much pox, but I just was not satisfied with it. I hate reoccurring air pollution.

On a different note, I bulldozed a Maxis airport, and so far in a large city tile, with large development, the saved city seems to be acting like normal after reloading.

[packersfan]

I think I will rerender the entire region and import a fresh tile....I've tested other large tiles for the pox and nothing seems to be happening, so I'm hopeful the pox cause is gone, so a fresh start will end well.

[FrankU]

Hey Maarten,

That's interesting information.

Now stays for me the question: when the props are not saved, how does the game know what props are needed in high detail settings? Does the game read the original lots and places the props anew? This would mean that lots with prop families could look different after saving in low detail setting and then going back to high detail settings.

Does anyone know how this works?

[MandelSoft]

Now stays for me the question: when the props are not saved, how does the game know what props are needed in high detail settings? Does the game read the original lots and places the props anew? This would mean that lots with prop families could look different after saving in low detail setting and then going back to high detail settings.

I think that's how it works. There is another trick involving this procedure, and that's for overhanging LOTs. Don't know where I can find it now, but it does have the same effect. For instance, if you add/remove anything from a LOT, it will only be shown on new LOTs. However, if you set detail settings to low, save the city, set detail settings to high again and load the city again, then the old LOTs are changed too.

[FrankU]

Hm, maybe I should do some testing with my Farm lots... It would show soon enough.

[Lowkee33]

Now stays for me the question: when the props are not saved, how does the game know what props are needed in high detail settings? Does the game read the original lots and places the props anew? This would mean that lots with prop families could look different after saving in low detail setting and then going back to high detail settings.

This is done by changing the 7th digit in the 2nd rep of the LotConfigProperties in the Lot Exemplar.  By default (in PIMX at least), this rep is 0x00000000 and means it will appear in all detail levels; 0x00000010 means medium; 0x00000020 means high only.  Changing the last digit of this rep to "1" activates the prop requesters, meaning that you can successfully have prop families with different wealth/crime/trash models appear at the correct time (though I haven't got crime/trash to work, it does with the Maxis families).

For Maarten's suggestion, it would probably be best to set these reps to 0x00000020.

Perhaps through Maarten's last post it would be possible to "fix" the pox.  Change the detail to low, save and quit.  Then change the last digit in the 2nd rep to 0x00000001 and add a prop with the correct wealth level to the family (or perhaps even change the last rep).  Upon re-loading and changing to high detail, if the new prop is displayed, it might make the game forget it ever used the poxxed prop.  Of course, I have no idea about this.

[BruceAtkinson]

 Well hello everyone...it has been so long since I've talked with anyone here...so first, how are you all?  I trust very good and living life to the fullest
......As you know, I'm one of the first sufferers of the Prop-pox....even to the point of naming it such....and I'm still suffering!  I use 'z's method...this one:

1. Open your saved city in Ilive's Reader.
2. Sort the left pane based on file size, with the highest at the top.
3. Near the top, there will be a subfile of type 2977AA47.  This is the prop subfile.  Delete it.
4. Also delete the subfiles of type 6A0F82B2 and 6990C1AA, which are also near the top.  These subfiles are regenerated as needed.  If you don't delete them, this process will still work, but your city size will increase greatly each time you repeat this process.
5. Save the city file.
6. Start up the game, but don't open the city file.
7. Open the Graphic Options, and make sure the City Detail is set to Low.
8. Open your city and save it immediately.
9. Exit to the region without saving.
10. Open the Graphic Options, and change your city detail to High.
11. Open your city.  All your props should be restored.
12. Save your city.  Your props will all be there... for a while.

....So now I have the traffic automata problem, in which there is no usage being indicated on the bus stops, subway or elevated rail.  Now I know back a few months someone also posted this issue...but I cannot find a reply...is their a solution to this, other than replacing all of the bus stops and what have you?
Any help would be gratly appreciated:
Bruce (BEJA)

[MandelSoft]

^^ I don't use Z's method. I actually skip step 1 to 6 and start with step 7. Works like charm! And the best part is that traffic doesn't become corrrupt.

[BruceAtkinson]

  Thanks mrtnrln ....works like a charm!!
BEJA