Hi,
In my winery BAT/LOT I am using a row of seasonal cherries by cp, in their summer state. The trees they are representing are a red flowered eucalyptus variety which are evergreen (so what I am trying to do is have it either in one permanent state or in alternating flowering & non-flowering versions).
I've learnt to set the simulator controls in reader to make my own props seasonal and am quite comfortable with that process now. So I've opened the relevant prop pack in reader (cp seasonal tress 2009a) and found the exemplar of the summer cherry, and then just deleted all three simulator bits. When I go to save it though it's saving the entire prop pack (with the modified tree I guess). If I use this modified tree now is it still tied to the original dependency? Hooha made me a version of a SG SUV to appear during work hours, same question there. Anything else I need to know about all this?
thanks :thumbsup:
You need to make a new exemplar for the model rather than editing the original one. If you edit the original one it will change all existing entities of it. Editing the original one could also potentially lead to the prop pox. :o
Indeed, some people who have researched the prop pox problem on this site, claim that this what actually causes the prop-pox, and more specifically some ingame props which PEG modded to become seasonal (or the opposite, can't remember exactly).
This sounds quite credible to me, because as I have explained in another thread, for the timed props the game saves additional information in the city file, like state, days elapsed etc. If the game file does not match with the exemplar definition, ie if it expects a timed prop, while what is saved in the city file is actually a simple prop (or the opposite) then the game may not read the city file correctly (different record lengths), and this can cause memory corruption, or false data to be read.
There is also another point, c.p. wanted his prop-pack to be like that. You may not go and change another's creations, it will no longer work the same for other lots that may be using it.
So, as Diggis said, stop using these and make new prop exemplars instead (with different instance IDs, and preferably different names too). There's no problem if a model is referenced (used) by more than one prop exemplars.
Shaun (Diggis) and cogeo have that absolutely right. It's very straightforward simply to create a new exemplar DAT and repackage the BAT. If you need help, drop me a PM.
David
Quote from: dedgren on February 10, 2010, 10:15:23 AM
Shaun (Diggis) and cogeo have that absolutely right. It's very straightforward simply to create a new exemplar DAT and repackage the BAT. If you need help, drop me a PM.
David
David,
Thingfish shouldn't repackage the original BAT, he should only include the new exemplar and link to the original prop pack as a dependency.
Shaun- Loose terminology on my part. Not as in "repackage" for distribution. I merely meant that the two resulting files should be functionally linked by thingfishs through giving the newly created exemplar file a name that associates it with the BAT object that is used and perhaps inclusion of the new DAT in the same file location. You are absolutely correct again, as the original file containing the tree in question should not be altered- simply used by thingfishs as a dependency. The new exemplar could be distributed in the usual ways, if desired, with proper credit given.
Sorry if I caused any confusion- should have had that second cup of coffee.
David
Another method for transforming seasonal trees into non-seasonal ones might be a mod that works similar to the SFBT Tree Replacement Mod. What you'd need to do is creating a copy of all seasonal tree exemplar files (or more precisely, the exemplar files for spring, fall and winter trees), and change the model ID in the Resource Key Type 4 property to the summer model ID. This way, all lots that already have seasonal trees will show the same (summer) model throughout the seasons. This shouldn't trigger the prop pox, as the exemplar files basically stay the same (no properties added or deleted).
thanks everyone for the quality advice, it's much appreciated. :thumbsup: (also thanks degren for the pm offer, I've found that direct communication leads one to become informed a lot quicker)
I'm not really sure which way to go, but at least I've got options. As for your suggestion there Andreas, could I use that approach but make it semi-seasonal? (ie. summer for 6 months and spring for 6 months)
And don't worry, you caught my attention with the PP phrase... ;)
I haven't been around the forums all that long, but long enough to be wary of it's mention. Although in fairness I thought there was some BSC props implicated as well? (these have been fixed ↓)
But yeah, I remember reading that pegasus had made it so that with one of his LOTs the beach chairs were "in" overnight, but that this made it so that all other beach chairs would be effected likewise. So I gather this is what people are saying here. It seems mysterious to me that changing one thing makes all the rest change too but there's a lot about the inner workings of computers and programs that I am clueless to.
Is there any other advantages or disadvantages to the two approaches listed here. Is either going to be less of a load for the game? (I like seasonal props and would like to get in the right habits now, for this time and next time)
Thanks everyone.
By far the simplest method to use is to make a new set of prop exemplars in SC4PIM and then make a small dat with the exemplars to be included with your lot - if you want to share it with the community. That is what I have done on occasions when I have made new lots and wanted different properties in the props.
The BSC set of props that could possibly have caused PP have been dealt with and an update posted.
The problem
Quote from: Andreas on February 10, 2010, 06:51:18 PM
Another method for transforming seasonal trees into non-seasonal ones might be a mod that works similar to the SFBT Tree Replacement Mod. What you'd need to do is creating a copy of all seasonal tree exemplar files (or more precisely, the exemplar files for spring, fall and winter trees), and change the model ID in the Resource Key Type 4 property to the summer model ID. This way, all lots that already have seasonal trees will show the same (summer) model throughout the seasons. This shouldn't trigger the prop pox, as the exemplar files basically stay the same (no properties added or deleted).
The problem with this method is you can't redistribute it as you'll affect other users lots which they may not want. The best method is to create new exemplars and link to the original prop pack.
thanks for that, well that seals it: I definitely want to be able to share the winery. :)
Well, I wasn't sure if you wanted to upload your lot, or if you were just looking for a "fix" in your game, as you tried to edit the original props (which obviously wouldn't work if you were going to release your lot and use Cycledogg's trees as a dependency). Of course, my suggestion would mean to create an entirely new mod (which could be offered for download as well, naturally, for those who don't like seasonal trees). As for modifying the trees for only having two seasons, that definitely means to create new exemplar files with different IDs, though, as you'd change the timed behavior of the props, instead of merely replacing the models, but keep the seasonal properties in their current state.
Quote from: BarbyW on February 10, 2010, 11:28:53 PM
By far the simplest method to use is to make a new set of prop exemplars in SC4PIM and then make a small dat with the exemplars to be included with your lot - if you want to share it with the community. That is what I have done on occasions when I have made new lots and wanted different properties in the props.
Could this be explained to me a little clearer. I did what I thought this meant (opened the original dat in SC4PIM, dragged it onto other prop, saved it with a new name, then gave it the right properties to stay evergreen. It worked, but apparently is still in the wrong form) What I didn't do I guess is turn that exemplar into a dat (I haven't made a dat before, I have no idea how to)
Is that all I've done wrong? I got the impression it had to be linking to the original whereas mine was separate... please help me to understand what is inevitably a straightforward process (once you know how)
Whenever you drag a model to the "prop" category in SC4PIM, a new *.SC4Desc file will be created. It doesn't really matter if you keep them as a bunch of individual files, or package them into a DAT (you can either use Files2DAT, SC4DatPacker or the FileMerger in SC4Tool) when it comes to the game, but of course, one DAT is easier to handle if you plan to distribute it.
thanks Andreas :thumbsup:
Unfortunately I'm still a bit confused. I quote Barby "CP Cherry Evergreen-0x6534284a-0x1804385e-0xd903637c.SC4Desc - why is there a single desc file listed? This should be in the CP pack"
So she was referring to the new exemplar I created, I got the impression this meant I'd done something wrong, that it was not supposed to be a separate file. Or was this just a miscommunication?
I'm not sure what Barby meant with the "CP Pack", so I cannot tell if she was referring to Cycledogg's prop pack, or a new DAT with the collection of *.SC4Desc files that you created. As I said above, for distribution, you should package those into a single DAT, and reference this DAT as the dependency file, rather than keeping individual files.
Quote from: BarbyW on February 10, 2010, 11:28:53 PM
By far the simplest method to use is to make a new set of prop exemplars in SC4PIM and then make a small dat with the exemplars to be included with your lot - if you want to share it with the community. That is what I have done on occasions when I have made new lots and wanted different properties in the props.
The BSC set of props that could possibly have caused PP have been dealt with and an update posted.
Hey BarbyW,
I read about BSC props that have caused PP? I thought I had read everything on PP, but missed this until now. Could you tell me where to find the latest info on PP props and the updated files? I'd like to know!