Well, here goes... ;)
The story to this point...
I have been long impressed by the the creative initiative that is SimMars although I'll come right out and say I've never actually played it. Futuristic themes aren't so much my thing... so I've been pondering different alternate
alternate SC ideas. SimMedieval & SimColonial are the leaders, and I've been occasionally dropping the ideas hoping that someone may run with it (because it's immediately obvious that something like this could only work properly with a number of people onboard).
Enter the picture timmystwin over at ST. After a comment of mine in a STEX upload, I get a pm from timmy who loves the idea, and suddenly he has made a thread, some BATs being produced and most importantly, the ideas are getting circulation (and getting some interest). http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=114379 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=114379)
Then Jeiman2008 created a no car mod & a pedestrians walk more freely type mod, and along with some period expertise from crackedtoothgrin, the pieces are very slowly coming together. Once I saw Jeiman's mod I had to give it a go. I created a quick model which I gave a number of texture variations and lots - in R$ & CS$ configurations. I also downloaded as many period BATs as I could find (although with their current settings none have actually grown yet). Then I made my first proof of concept city:
(Disclaimer: just the first experiment)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FkoHoa.jpg&hash=fdfd33c30d01e8e9d6459f60c785c9dc71da432d)
This is a functioning city, it has houses, shops, farms, water (peg's spring pond thing), power (yeah I know... but the game needs it - via mrbisonm's energy gravel pile), hospital and a school - all in broadly medieval form. Only the fire and police are still in their current forms)
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Pedestrians can walk a fair way and can use mountain trail pedmalls to get to work. Houses of course can only be placed on streets (in this case SAM), but businesses can be placed on streets or pedmalls. With some creativity one could arrange a visually attractive as well as functional town. I placed a few of my downloads in town (mostly kwakelaar's stuff) plus the civics. As mentioned none grew (they will need their stages/capacities/sizes etc adjusted), but I did find quite a few nice existing creations. Also many historic buildings in their modern form (with car parks etc) that with some relotting & modding could be great additions.
Last but not least - this thing may work, or may not. I just think now that the cats out of the bag that it's time to try and actively seek interest. So if you are interested in this period/idea/mad venture and can contribute somehow, let us know.
So whaddyall think?
This looks like a terrific idea, thingfishs! I'm especially interested in your other, "SimColonial" idea, which sounds as if it would function much the same as SimMedieval. I don't know just how much I could contribute to either idea (as my knowledge of medieval or colonial architecture is very limited), but I'm certainly interested in seeing it come to fruition :)
This has some real potential. I love the idea actually.
---Gaston
thanks for your thoughts woodb3kmaster and Gaston. As for knowing anything about medieval architecture, I don't... nor do I know anything about modern architecture, but that hasn't stopped me. ;) But crackedtoothgrin has emerged as someone who seems to know their sh*t about the period. I will continue to post my progress in the hope that some other people might be keen.
So phase two I found and relotted some period buildings and so the variety is growing.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FvuEoB.jpg&hash=1a8b87f130f650045a7e0dd622013b47860d219b)
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Good day thingfishs!
Fantastic!!!
You really might be up to something here to bring the game back to the masses.
Unfortunately I don't know anything about lotting (or batting), so all I can offer is moral support (and maye some storical advice). I think you should follow up on your idea and if we'ld ask really nicely kwakelaar might even join forces (Andau is still a couple of centuries away, but it's just great and heading your way).
P.S.: Just read the thread over on ST. Seems lively enough after not even a week. :)
EDIT
Just to give this project a small push I'm taking up your idea of a link list. It's far from complete and includes various styles and time periods (not necessarily all fitted for your Fable idea, which I share btw, but still...), aswell as models that would have to be adjusted to fit in. Whoever feels like it is more than welcome to add to the list.
Here we go:
RESIDENTIAL
Medieval house - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11675
TSC - medieval houses pack - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21490
French Medieval lot 2 GROW - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18910
French Medieval Lot 3 GROW - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18919
French Medieval House - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18903
BSC RP Elstow Timber Framed Set - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=12592
Village Pack - 9 new houses from Zeeland, the Netherlands - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22379
Zeeland, the Netherlands - 11 Cottages pack - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22324
Havoc Tudor Town House - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2950
BSCBATProps_MattB325_Vol01 - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=281
Mattb325 King George House - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1483
COMMERCIAL and INDUSTRIAL
Pub The Red Stallion - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11618
BLS The Foxhunters' Arms - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=519
TSC Team corn exchange - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19664
Ratskellermedieval tavern - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2518
Underground Mine - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17088
SFBT Fritz's Farm by voltaic - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2320
Modular Medieval Port - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=23513
Medieval Sailing Ship - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=23514
Wharfside revisited - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=14951
PEG PPond Finns Landing - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22739
BSC RP Star Inn - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=13126
Mills Brothers - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17878
Slakter Haaland - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18696
UK Horse And Jockey Pub BSC - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=364
The Fox and Hounds - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=12945
UK Royal Oak pub - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=971
BLS Miscellaneous lots for Diggis CAN-AM mod - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2251
CSX Mansion - Dalene - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=146
Kwakelaar Large Market Hall - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=52
CHURCHES
Abbaye de Pontigny - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1323
Vienna Votivkirche - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=753
JENX Great St Martin Cologne - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1546
CAL St Nicholas Church - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=12
UK Village Church St Bartholomews - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=358
JENX Antwerp Cathedral Revisited - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1399
Fountains Abbey - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=23450
TSC - ClunyIII Abbey - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21489
BLaM FC St Felicitys Cemetary - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17778
Basilica di Sant Ambrogio - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=16875
JENX Munsterkerk update - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2275
BLaM St Felicity - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17774
Dutch Church Spaarnwoude - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17456
Eglise SaintPierre Saive - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=14403
St Georges Church - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2635
CIVICS and UTILITIES
Nexis Sand-Gravelpile Energy - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=23564
TSC Team siege well - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19666
Roulback TSC Frontenac Museum - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2334
Hospices of Beaune - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21488
Biblioteca general - http://descargas.capitalsim.net/?sitio=csc&descargar=756
Private Clinic Medieval house - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2613
Medieval City Hall - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2542
TSC Team Popes Palace of Avignon - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19663
Fine Arts College Medieval House - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2693
BLaM Anvil Museum - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18175
Middle Ages Castle Museum v1 - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2941
Dutch Stellingmolen - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22284
Old University - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2910
PEG PPOND Water Mill - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21697
BLaM St Katherines Priory - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17990
CSX Rural - Springwater - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1326
FrogfaceAqueduct - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11213
CSX Theatre - B Winterton - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=161
CAL Summerton Mill BSC - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=71
CSX Civic - Aldeburgh Library - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=195
CSX Civic - Mayor's Office - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=196
CASTLES, WALLS, GATES
Castle 1100 AD puzzel pieces - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=16490
PEG Puerta De Pego - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18610
Zierikzee: the medieval city gate series - Noordhavenpoort - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22607
Zierikzee: the medieval city gate series - Nobelpoort - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22543
Zierikzee: the medieval city gate series - Zuidhavenpoort - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=22536
JENX Burg Eltz V12 - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18928
JBAT Castle Wall Set - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2497
TSC Team bridge tower - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19665
City walls 1100 AD puzzel pieces - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=16487
Castle walls - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2797
French Castle - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=2281
Age of Empires II Castle - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=17638
RUINS
Underworlds Ruins - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=14155
Underworld Ruins II - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=14601
VARIOUS
Underworld bat textures - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11844
BLS JENX Passenger Station - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1563 (yes, I know. They didn't have trains back then, but the building could be useful.)
LNX Sea port LOTR Props - LNX Sea port LOTR Props
Nexis Cross on the Rocks - http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=15958
Plus a lot of MBEAR's mediterranean series and most of the Manchou Village Packs by TSC. Furthermore I suspect some stuff on here, I just don't understand polish: http://www.simcitypolska.pl/news.php
That's it for now. Anybody knows how make these lists saving space?
HAPPY EASTER EVERYBODY!!!
Looks interesting. :thumbsup:
But you should use a palm replacement mod. Palms look strange in a medieval city, in my opinion. And a mod to remove the lamp posts, but I don't know if there exists one.
Using PEGs pine replacement and re-lotting will hopefully irradicate this problem. Its good to see my thread on another site, spreading the word.
And thats a really long list of stuff, wow. You spent a long time doing that, cheers. When i get time i may put that on the Simtropolis version.
thanks for your thoughts myself.or.? and nbvc. As for the palm replacement mod, I completely agree, the palms look altogether wrong. Likewise with the lamp posts (and other street props). All of this stuff (and many more small details) will need to be sorted out. This is just the preliminary experiments to see how it all might work. As for Kwakelaar, let's just say great minds think alike. ;)
Well, I just saw your post there myself.or.?, awesome, thanks a LOT for that. I have about 50% of that stuff already which I am relotting and modding to fit the game, but there's a bunch I haven't seen yet so cheers. :thumbsup: These sort of steps are important...
As for "my" fable idea, I'm afraid that's a misunderstanding. That's (I think) the game that Timmy has based his BATs on. Personally I am seeking it to be firmly in the realm of the real world. However the medieval period spans a huge period of time, culture and geography. Different peoples take on what medieval means will be exactly that, different. And in a free community like this I think it's important that everyone be able to contribute what they like; but that it's up to the end user to decide what they will and won't install. So long story short, I'm sure most of what you posted there will be relevant.
As for me I have an english assignment to start (and finish, by tomorrow), but then I have two weeks holiday so expect some progress here.
This idea has legs thingfishs. For the moment, I'll keep an eye out for medieval goodies. If I spot anything, I'll add it here.
thanks for that Cubby, it would be appreciated. :thumbsup:
Well would you believe it, I finally dragged myself away to do my assignment when I found out it isn't due until thursday! (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Femoticons2.yolasite.com%2Fresources%2Ffiesta.gif&hash=1f2de1898adfa1ec1b6375e04ec0e9a9b8695058)
Just a small update... more a query. I have created many new lots but with limited experience am unsure of some of the procedures. Most of the lots I have built aren't growing at this point. I have made many R$ & CS$, along with some CS$$ & a couple of CS$$$. Mostly stage 1 with a few stage 2. The low wealth houses sprout like weeds, and when I add a clinic, I mean Apothecarist, (thanks crackedtoothgrin) ;), the wealthier houses start to move in (as you'd expect). But even with a ton of houses very few commercials are developing. Now in SC4 it takes longer for commercials to develop, but still the low wealth ones kick in pretty quickly.
This is probably just basic simulator stuff, but I've never had to think about it to this degree (most of the thinking has already been done for me).
Also in SC4PIM what's the difference between dragging something onto the low wealth etc options at the top, and dragging it onto the more detailed RCI/wealth/stage options lower down?
Anyway, a couple of shots:
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I have changed the texture of a pedmall connector piece so that it blends in with the mountain trails. (without the need for mass transit)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FF7zMn.jpg&hash=55f2672c9685661f90f4bcc825b6db88ce57e97d)
(a small medical clinic, or Apothecarist. According to crackedtoothgrin (hereafter known as CTG), they would have had lots of herbs in their gardens etc. As with all of this I don't know what is historically accurate so I am depending on people like CTG to assist. From garden layout, to fences, to paths, props, - you name it... Actually I will post CTG's excellent post here for people to have a look at, argue over etc) ;)
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(now ignore the awful lotting on this, I am still just getting a feel for the overall concept. This one is a hospital, using one of kwakelaar's excellent monastery BATs.)
Here is crackedtoothgrin's awesome post from the ST thread:
In 1221, the use of thatched rooftops was outlawed by virtue of their flammability. Instead, shingles made of wood (usually oak), stone slabs, or clay tiles were used as roofing materials. The usage of stone, except in fringe settlements (highlands in Scottish terriotry, for instance) were relegated to the rich. Especially brick. Brick was for rich people. Shaping stone was expensive and time-consuming, so the poor (the vast majority of the population) would maybe use field stones on a foundation, around windows, or on corners of their homes, assuming they used them at all.
The ones that still used thatch, either prior to the ruling, or outside of cities, would have homes that basically looked like straw lean-to's. Supports leaned together with a central beam on top (held by pegs) with cross-bars (also hed by pegs), were laced with uprights weaved throughout with horizontal reeds and overlain with thatch. The top of the building possessed a hole, called a louvre, that served as the chimney. Chimneys in poor homes were all but unheard of, the same as windows.
In game terms, these types of homes should be close to one another, but NOT linear. That 'city block' style was just not the way of things. Villages flowed along roads. In fact, twin lines of homes facing a center street, with maybe a manor house or two, a keep, or a church in the center, would roll along the road, and have lines of fields extending away from the village and behind the homes. Nearby, maybe a water or windmill would exist. It would belong to the church or the local lord. As a matter of placement and construction, this building would NOT ever be nightlighted, nor would it ever be near a fire or a building like the blacksmithy. The particulate nature of mill-ground materials in the air made the air within combustible. It was against the law to carry even a candle most times in the vicinity. You could make the building blow up.
The lotting should be done to take this non-linear design in mind, at least for low-density, non-urban settlements.
Maybe the density levels could be accurately scaled in regards to BAT construction? The low-density buildings would be for the ubitquitous villages and settlements, the medium for semi-urban ones, and the high-density for the extremely rare metropolises?
Take this scale, for instance.
Low-density: Villages, hamlets, thorps, etc. Non-linear, usually formed along minor routes of transportation. Heavily agricultural. The lots would be large, to house one or more homes, not arranged in a 'block' pattern, but scattered about, and containing the necessary side-buildings that the house of the poor contained (storage sheds, small barns where appropriate, pens for animals in some cases, common wells, feeding troughs, etc.). There should be small churches, maybe, if absolutely necessary, a keep, or a motte and bailey, but more often than not this is not needed.
Low crime rate, low flammability, low population, lots and lots of animals, extremely contained and small, maybe several villages within a half-mile, like dots on a paper
Medium-Density: Small cities and villages centered around a junction of travel or trade routes. The centerpiece for this settlement would most-liekly be the keep/bailey/small castle. The buildings would likely retain their scattered nature, somewhat, but streets would be planned inside city walls, and for a small area outside the walls from points of egress/entrance into the keep. Here, the buildings would approach rectilinear design and layout. For a large area around the settlement, agricultural subsistence would feed the city. This would necessitate a market or gathering area for commerce, and numerous storage facilities for grain. This is also the first type of city where dockyards and semi-urban industry would be common. We're talking about tanners, coopers, bakers, blacksmiths, etc. However, these would be smallish operations. They would likely have a monopoly.
Low to medium population. Medium Flammability. Low to high crime rate. Good mix of animals and people. Presence (likely) of manorial houses, with one being the local lord's. Semi-common along important routes and strategic locations.
High-Density: The closest equivalent to 'metropolises,' these cities would likely not number above 15,000 (especially in timmystwin's idea of medieval Britain). I mean, the door is open to Constantinople/Rome/Cordoba style settlements of 1,000,000+ inhabitants, but giant centres of inhabitance weren't quite common in western early to high medieval europe. The Byzantines, Italian City States, and the Islamic Countries had a monopoly on that. (Well, the Rus did too...). The buildings will be cramped, rectilinear as possible, and several businesses will be established for each trade, with competition being the norm. There will likely be enough of them to consider making guild houses, to attempt a restablishment of the monopoly possesed in smaller settlements. The castle may or may not be large, but the momentum of population basically keeps the population safe.
High population in high population density. High crime. High flammability. More people than animals, as local agricultural settlements ship food in for products shipped out. Guilds, castles (one or more), walls, chruches, docks (if on water), public works buildings (tombs/mausoleams/temples/etc.). Not common in frequency.
Flora: There should be lots of farms. Like, lots of them. Depending on whether or not the two- or three-field system was in place, this should change seasonally. We've done it with trees, we can do it with crops. The same crop wouldn't stay on the same field all year. The fields left to go fallow should be covered in various weeds, grasses, flowers, etc. And, they should have ploppable livestock and people. The fallow fields served as the grazing ground for the livestock, and were often owned by the local lord. The vast majority of the land should be wilderness, and forested, depending on where the locale is. The clearing of trees was a highly regulated process. Messin' around in the nobility-owned forests was sometimes an offense punishable by death. Also, any building of military worth should NOT have ivy growing on it. Gardeners were paid to remove it, as sturdy ivy could be climber in times of war. That image of ivy growing up the castle walls is a nice effect in modern times, but would be reprehensible on a contemporary basis.
Fauna: The vast majority of the land should be forested or left wilderness, as mentioned. This means lots of wildlife. (Maybe even replace 'airplanes' with flocks of birds?) In the cities, there should be lots of livestock. Horses, cattle, pigs, ducks, rabbits, pigeons, etc. Everywhere. People used horses and cattle like cars-slash-labor machines. They used them for everything. Even if the people didn't own their own horses (being owned largely by the local lord) they still took care of them. This means the construction of stables, rabbit hutches, falconer coops, etc. The domestication of animals is one of the primary reasons for human ascendency. (In fact, the stirrup is considered the most-important military invention of human history.)
Professions (Just some of them... A lot are left out):
Bakers- The baker was very important for the community. His home would likely serve as his shop. It may or may not have included a detached kitchen. Unless he was under the direct employ of the local lord (and he likely was), he would likely be somewhat 'free' and better-off than his neighbors, since he could earn a higher wage-based living by offering his services in exchange for the materials provided to make his bread. This was a highly regulated industry, and one prone to corruption, being so central.
Apothecarist- The 'doctor' of the community. His home would include gardens for growing herbs, when he didn't procure them by gathering or purchasing them from traveling merchants. In smaller communities, this was likely done by a member/employee of the church/local lord. He would likely also be somewhat well-off in comparison to his agriculturally-toiling neighbors.
Blacksmith- I already covered this one in an above post, but this position would be one of the essentials of any community. He made almost anything and everything the community needed out of metal. Sub-categories could include the Armourer (makes armour), the Bowyer (makes bows), the Fletcher (sometimes this is separate from the bowyer, as they made arrows using feathers from birds and arrowheads from the blacksmith), and many others, including architects and engineers that may or may not have been separate from the blacksmith, and dependent upon the necessity by the community and the wealth/power/prestige of the community or employer(s).
Brewers- Also important to the community, highly. Taking barrels made by the coopers, they brewed and stored liquor and (more commonly) beer/ale for the community. Potable water is difficult to obtain near a settlement without contamination risks. Beer could last longer and provide nutrients/calories to flesh out meals. Liquor inside the brewers creations could also help with decontamination of contaminated food, make patients drunk for 'surgery' or emergency medicine, and help peasants forget about how crappy their lives were. Like today, alcohol was an important stress-reliver. Being so important, this practice was often highly taxed and regulated, even down to taxes levied per consumption. Beer was so important that the Battle of Sempach in 1386 saw the halting of the battle for everyone to get some beer during the melee.
Masons/Bricklayers- Stone, except fieldstone (removed from fields during cultivation and reappropriated for structural use), and bricks were the domain of the wealthy. Stone took a long time to shape, required knowledge of mathematics, extensive logisitical support to mine, transport, and construct with. Bricks required access to clay and large arrays of kilns, as well as large, open spaces to dry once shaped. In areas of desert (especially Levantine and Mesopotamian alluvial areas) bricks were more common. However, in Europe, where the ubiquitous procurement of clay was often inhibited by topsoil and more fertile ground (as opposed to open areas of alluvial sediments in Judea and the Tigris-Euphrates valleys), it was more expensive. the making of bricks also took the brickmakers out of circulation in agriculture, making their services more valuable on a wage-basis. Only after the pseudo-emancipation of serfs after the wage increase of post-1350 medieval economy (due to labor being more valuable after the effect of the Black Death) should they become more popular, except where ecclesiatical/noble money could fund them, such as in large cities.
Glassblowers- Glass, until the Venetians made Cristallo, was just not used for homes. That didn't mean that glass was not in use elsewhere. From decorative church art to goblets the practice was quite valuable. First, it required the obtaining of sand. Depending on geographic location, this coudl be expensive. Next, it required years of practice. Glassblowers were not common until the later stages of the medieval age, and even then, weren't in abundance until well into the Renaissance. Where they do exist, they should be rich, have a guild association, and shouldn't be in smaller communities.
Dyers- Dyers were quite common. Contrary to popular belief, the Middle Ages were quite colorful. The ability to make dyes was common, and often used to great effect in trade. For instance, the pairing of English dominance over the wool trade, coupled with the common and popular dutch dying business, ensured the financial success of both during the high middle ages. This profession was done largely by women. The creation of the dyes was a dangerous process sometimes, as the poisonous nature of the berries could easily lead to accidents. However, even in small towns, it was often commonplace to see a facility or facilities devoted to this practice.
Millers- Using water or wind, this highly regulated and vital business (usually owned by a local lord, wealthy famliy, or church) was among the most vital to the survival of any agricultural community. The grain harvested throughout the year had to be milled into flour to make bread for the baker, and so that it could turn stored grain in the winter into food during the lean months. Millers could often make great wealth for themselves, join guilds, and, in concert with grain merchants, procure huge 'neighbor deals' from less-agricultural urban centers to turn a profit. One point I mentioned in another post: The grinding of flour makes the air combustible. The presence of even a single spark could ignite the whole building and bring doom to a whole community. As such, non-sparking stone pieces were often used. The use of metal as part of the mechanism was next-to impossible to find, since the grinding of metal could cause said sparks to create an explosion. Blacksmiths, forges, etc. were not located anywhere near a mill. Most mills wren't even located too terriblly close to otehr buildings. Grain storage silos also had the problem of combustibility, and were not located near mills. The explosion of one or the other could blow both up. Experience had evolved the placement of these buildings to be somewhat distant.
Tanners/Leather-workers/Furriers- Leather was a valuable commodity. The nobility often had exclusive rights to the forests (although this didn't deter the Robin Hoods of the world to make their own living in the black market). The animals, after being used as food, would be recycled into armour and clothing with their skins. The trappers would bring the animals to the tanners/furriers. There, the animals would be skinned, coated in oils, and stretched outside in the sun, left to dry. Afterwards, in giant vats, a mixture of water and animal dung (and other elements dependent upon the local resources) would be created, and the dried skins would be softened in them. In smaller communities, this was often known adn participated in by everyone. Tanning was a well-known profession, although sometimes a tanner could set up his own business, either separate from or part of the leather-workers. After the leather was softened, the laterh-workers used tools form the blacksmith to shape it into clothing, belts, armour, etc. Sometimes, they would be shaped and boiled in oil (cuir boulis) to harden them for added protection. Whle the tanning was common and cometimes a community practice, the skills of the leather worker often necessitated a separate profession, like the blacksmith.
That's just a few of the many professions, from barristers/solicitors, to falconers, coopers, cobblers, weavers, etc.
It's a good idea to pick up a book on medieval life to see what would be necessary in BATting.
Take this for instance:
There are four types of coopers (barrel-makers), and each has a different kind of barrel. The barrels made as props should change to reflect what they carry, dependent on the business.
&apls &apls Excellent project that you do. I wish you that it`s go well and i will follow your thread carefully , cause i`m already do a medieval park theme in my CJ and i`found that a good way to use those great medieval bats. Good luck to your project :thumbsup:
Hey thingfishs, I was looking at toutsimcities today and saw this little gem...
http://www.toutsimcities.com/inc_downloads/downloads_img.php?view=1633 (http://www.toutsimcities.com/inc_downloads/downloads_img.php?view=1633)
Its a neat little medieval well. TSC in general has some awesome medieval stuff...alas I do not understand French or I'm sure more would come of this post. Its worth checking out though.
I might try and browse TSC for goodies...
EDIT
Some of these are epic!!!
thanks for that cubby, I went through the whole site and found some interesting bits & pieces (you're right about that Timmy), cheers. :thumbsup:
Thanks to kimcar for the nice words, and this project will get there (eventually); thanks to girafe I finally have my new 3ds Max 2010 setup actually working so I will have some further updates soon... :)
Yeah glad I could be of some help timmystwin and thingfish. ToutSimCities has some great pieces. I checked up on the thread over at ST and some great work is being done on this project. For those of you who have not seen it, please give it a look if you are interested in this ambitious project:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=114379&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=114379&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear)
You can also use this bridge that i win at the Orange contest and Orange release it for everybody. Very nice for a medieval scenery .http://www.toutsimcities.com/downloads.php?view=1471 (http://www.toutsimcities.com/downloads.php?view=1471)
thanks for that kimcar :thumbsup: (although I must admit I'd already found that one ;))
Wow, this is fantastic! It doesn't really cater to my style of game play (traffic engineer), but it makes for very interesting screen shots. I look forward to seeing a medieval mayor's )(errrm...I mean King's) diary.
a very belated thanks Kevin :thumbsup:
My life went a bit haywire there for a while and this project went into limbo (and I went into the bar ;)). But it's still a happening thing and unlike last time, where I spent most of my time lotting, collecting and texturing models, and thinking about how to best organise the game (and admittedly getting overwhelmed by it at times): I have started batting. This is my first building, a medium wealth, urban residential.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fued2p.png&hash=c9dfb9a7a2a40615b2a48e899173091a4b1525bb)
Although there are still many things to decide and resolve, I think it's time to get more people involved and more BATs in production.
There is a (previously private) site, where a small bunch of us have thrown a lot of ideas around. If anyone is keen to BAT, LOT, create textures, collect models or just have a look around etc., please become a member at http://simmedieval.activeboard.com (http://simmedieval.activeboard.com)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimmedieval.activeboard.com%2Fdownload.spark%3FID%3D743089%26amp%3BaBID%3D135582&hash=4800bce6f826623d873fdc74df16686fb81ce23b) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimmedieval.activeboard.com%2Fdownload.spark%3FID%3D743094%26amp%3BaBID%3D135582&hash=633775e02aae0dd5fd47771eb32d09cc42ef8c82) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimmedieval.activeboard.com%2Fdownload.spark%3FID%3D743092%26amp%3BaBID%3D135582&hash=73e21876255732e28cb72fd429720877f976531b)
A few examples of the free models which will now become part of the SM universe.
Looking good I can BAT but I shouldn't be a member of your team because it isn't interesting me very much that medieval.
But great gods I looked around in your forum (intro) and great as I see what kinda BATs thre are keep up the very great work and maybe we get somewhere in the future a Medieval SimCity 4 :)