Well I do not believe this is the first time I have tried to place Feroxx's beautiful Warsaw Station, but I'm having big issues now. I plopped the lot once without issue. However seconds later, unhappy with the orientation, I bulldozed and re-plopped in the identical location (corner of maxis avenue and NWM 4-lane avenue), rotated 180 degrees. To my dismay, the new plop had no base textures and was simply populated by the model and props scattered about. Well that won't due I thought... &sly
...bulldoze... &apls &apls
...problem solved right?
...oh wait, the building model is still there....very strange... I tried bulldozing the lot over and over...quitting and restarting (I know, I know...should've saved before plopping the station)...even removing the file from my plugins entirely: it was datpacked at the time, but I reinserted my complete plugins to no avail and simply had fun bulldozing an immortal brown box for a minute or two. All that remains is the building model. All ancillary props and textures are gone...just one annoying (though wonderfully textured ::)) model remains on a transparent lot. I'm beginning to get that feeling that I'm out of my depth somewhat and I'm definitely afraid to push so far I don't know how to undo what steps I have taken. If anybody's got any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds like the eternal immortal lot syndrome to me.
I think there are a couple of fixes. One involves plopping the same lot around all sides of the original station. Then delete the whole lot. It works but of course you lose anything you have already built on these tiles.
Other than that, I'm sure someone a lot smarter than me will drop in soon with an answer.
Dave
Edit. Check out this thread by Ripplejet. Should help you out http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10434.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10434.0)
Yeah I thought that may be my problem as well at first. However, the lot is completely gone. I can draw roads, rail, plop other buildings, etc right through the Warsaw Station model that remains. They just appear to go under the model. Not really sure how RJ's excellent fix for immortal lots would function for me, considering there is no lot to place his fix near.
EDIT: Well I gave ripplejet's solution a try and no luck. The actual lot size has shrunk down to just the size of Feroxx's model, as the rest of the lot is long gone now. Every time I bulldoze the model, it appears to fall to the ground, but like a Matryoshka doll there is always another one laughing at my futility when the smoke clears. It still costs around 11,000 simoleons to bulldoze each time. What really sucks is that I'm well into the 500 year count on this tile and have been perfecting it with details for some time. I'd really rather not lose the whole thing, but I'm starting to worry that may be the only solution.
EDIT 2: Just for fun, I thought maybe playing with the terrain would force the building to disappear...boy was I wrong. After the digging a deep gauge directly underneath the model, I was shocked when it floated above the water new testament style. Very cool but very annoying. I'm screwed I think.
Quote from: cubby420 on July 03, 2010, 08:04:37 AM
Every time I bulldoze the model, it appears to fall to the ground, but like a Matryoshka doll there is always another one laughing at my futility when the smoke clears. It still costs around 11,000 simoleons to bulldoze each time.
This happened to me, I did get rid of it in the end and was able to carry on building, but for the life of me I can't remember what I did, I know I renamed my plugins folder so the game had to create a new blank one when it started up, but I'd tried so many things at that point including dropping some very large buildings on the model and I do remember zoning it for a garbage dump at one point, but as to what worked in the end ...
[shrugs shoulders] I was just so pleased to see it gone.
I think what annoyed me the most was it did blow up each time you bulldozed it, but every-time the smoke cleared there it would be, with not a scratch on it and as you say laughing at you :bomb:
It doesn't appear to be an immortal lot in the normal sense of the meaning and I haven't actually used it. I will test it out and see if we can sort out what the problem is.
I never reported it as it seemed a one-off problem, as I had plopped it before and after this with no problems, it just appeared to be one of those odd little things that happen occasionally, I do remember the land was deformed afterwards with a square hole where the model had been sitting and no amount of altering the landscape would get rid of it, in the end as it was a test region I deleted it and started again with a new region.
and from memory it happened the same way
cubby420 reported it
QuoteI plopped the lot once without issue. However seconds later, unhappy with the orientation, I bulldozed and re-plopped in the identical location
catty
It is nice to hear that someone has defeated this problem before catty, and I appreciate your input. Pity you don't remember how you fixed it, but I'm still trying a variety of likely useless things as well. At this point I might just surround the thing with pedmall tiles and overhanging textures to make it look slightly less odd. Maybe I'll call it the Museum of Simcity Glitch Futility. ::)
Barby, thank you for your help and now that you are on the case, I actually feel slightly hopeful that this problem will be rectified. Please let me know if I can give any more information on my issue and its genesis that may lead to some conclusions. Thank you for the time and effort you put in to helping us mere plebeians not break our games beyond recognition. Left to our own devices I shutter to think what we typing monkeys would do. :D
- Andrew
Just a tiny bump to make sure some other members who may have experienced this problem see the thread. Still no solutions on my end, but then again I'm not the most accomplished SC4 troubleshooter.
I tested the station out in a variety of positions and couldn't replicate your problem so I can't help at all. I looked at the lot and the modding and there is nothing to indicate an immortal lot syndrome.
Well thank you for trying Barby. &mmm
Quote from: cubby420 on July 15, 2010, 09:31:43 AM
Just a tiny bump to make sure some other members who may have experienced this problem see the thread. Still no solutions on my end, but then again I'm not the most accomplished SC4 troubleshooter.
Your post this morning finally reminded me that this is the second time I have come across the same or similar problem its taken me awhile to find the city and the model, but I found it in Maxisland (which I use for testing) you can download it from here http://www.sc4ever.com/media/
if you de-zone an area in Downtown Weberg (I can only get into the city if I have an empty plugins folder otherwise I CTD) you are left with this model but minus its lot
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4136%2F4799034816_db5a7b3f01_b.jpg&hash=3aa4fe593e2cbef02e6baf5f101cfa5bf0772c72)
deleting it has no effect except you lose $220 dollars each time you bulldoze it, as you can see several attempts later I'm about a $1000 dollars poorer but its still there
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4138%2F4798405055_9c83354fea_b.jpg&hash=3bc0921010b4420b2ced4cd5c00d2d9838c8ba62)
I still can't remember how I got rid of the station and I deleted the city once the latest RTMT was released last year, so I'm still no help on that front, but if this is the same issue you at least have something you can test things on without causing any more problems in your own city.
hope this helps
catty
EDIT: One final thing the Feroxx station I've been using was from the LEX DVD and/or CD, I've just downloaded it from the LEX and they look identical in every way
That is exactly the problem I've been having catty! Thanks again. I downloaded the Warsaw station off the LEX by the way. Good catch on the Maxisland building. I'll look into it.
I dled MaxisLand to check this out. There are many of these models that have this problem.
- I noticed the base textures of these problems were a void.
- Demolishing the building is successful
- However, the model would not go away after de-zoneing
- Only props could be demolished after de-zoneing
- Roads could be laid underneath to no avail
- Placing a grass park below the model will allow the model to be demolished
Wait, you simply placed a grass lot under the model and it could demolished without incident? If that works Lowkee33 than you are my hero. It would still be a good idea to identify the genesis of such problems though.
FWIW, I once had a similar problem with Ardecila's Old Post Office building (the one with a Maxis highway running through it). Both it and the Warsaw Railway Station are TE lots; this could have something to do with the problem.
Quote from: cubby420 on July 16, 2010, 11:26:34 AM
Wait, you simply placed a grass lot under the model and it could demolished without incident?
Thats what I did. Sorry if I wasnt clear.
I have had some issues on my lots with props and overlay textures not demolishing, but the grass trick has worked so far. I would imagine that any plop will do.
This immortal lot problem has been around a long time (along with some ways to "cause it") RippleJet has done some added work identifying other issues which can cause them along with at least one lot which attempts to "clear" them (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2356). I will post a link to some very old (and now combined) posts I made ca. 2005 on the issue (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=75821&enterthread=y#1049074) (sorry but this thread is VERY long and VERY slow-loading and often doesn't stop on the proper post.. so after you link and wait for "DONE" loading, you may have to do a "cntrl-F" find for the thread's post number "1049074") You will note it is followed by a sure-fire way to make an immortal lot appear from "normal" lots.. since it involves overlaying textures, AND since you mentioned you had "no show textures" that MAY be part of your problem and at least one possible issue with this particular lot. Hope some of that may help you.
Thank you SC4BOY. Unfortunately we have already tried RippleJet's fix to no avail because this appears to not be a traditional immortal lot, rather the actual model that appears on the lot is immortal.
I had the same issue with public buildings, large elementary school, hospital and small police station.
As far as i can tell they all had lost the parking prop or had it affected someway. As itr was said i tried demolishing but it was just wasting money. I tried with RJ's immortal killer but it didnt work.
I started trying with elevation changes, and to smooth then i tried with rails, which happened to go through the buildings as if they werent there. I then demolished the rails and placed a new version of what i wanted to demolish on top of it eg, a new police station (i tried to demolish before placing the replacement but it didnt work).
Then i was finally able to demolish those buildings.
Note that when i placed the replacement the missing props appeared (eg parking space next to police station) so if you try this you may wanna make room for those (again for police station place on a 2x3 free space, not 2x2).
Last, this happened next to where i had been working with NAM road puzzle pieces. I had this happen somewhere else also with the road pieces but never realised it may be the same issue, ill give it a look now.
Good (though annoying) side: immortal lots seem to still work, or at least the query says so. :)
Actually, the problem of immortal models was solved thanks to catty and Lowkee33 who's solution can be found in this thread. Thanks though!
@cubby420: I am glad we solved your problem :). Interesting that yours too was caused by NAM (or not proper use of NAM)
I have been able to create the immortal prop/texture with NAM pieces when placed next to a lot. It is pretty clear when it happens (and with practice might look good). To avoid the problem just make sure that they have the space they need (like 3x2 for FARR) before you plop.
The problem is connected to base textures, but passed that I am not sure. As you have noted, Maxis plops can become immortal, but my first sighting of this was with growables that had no base textures.
A growable will retain the construction textures if it does not have base or overlay textures. Throw a overlay on it and it will appear to be normal. Sometimes the textures become immortal though. I made a 2x1 lot with no base textures and overlay textures on both tiles, and had no problem. When I deleted one of the overlays the textures became immortal. Strange. This can be done with Maxis textures too, so I am thinking Instance has nothing to do with it...
I've managed to break this lot too, but in my case it's clear what events cause it to go immortal. I don't know what the technical reasons are for this problem... I know nothing about transit enabling or transit modding, but I thought I'd show these pictures anyway in case the information is useful to the relevant people.
In this example, the problem seems to be caused by the NAM's 'auto complete' feature on FARR pieces.
If I plop the lot next to existing roads, this happens:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm211%2Fpsander5%2FIL0001.jpg&hash=11014caefd1e260104c4b632551521d8499bdec7)
As you can see, its tried to make FARR pieces at the point where there are adjacent transit enabled tiles. To confirm it, when I plop the lot first, then draw the roads around it, you can see the blue highlight that shows when the FARR auto complete function is trying to work:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm211%2Fpsander5%2FIL0002.jpg&hash=fd8e32d3401ed82c0fa4d4eed92d2231d116c91c)
Knowing that it's caused by the FARR auto complete vs the way the lot is transit enabled, it's possible to know how to avoid it going immortal. One way is to not use a road up that left hand side of the lot, and to use an avenue, one-way road or street instead. However, that's not always ideal. You can still use a normal road too, by doing the following:
Plop the lot first, with no road on the left hand side (so it doesn't try to auto connect), then draw the road stubs into empty space, like so:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm211%2Fpsander5%2FIL0003.jpg&hash=e79dcfdd698ba46e960913a571e9b8bde9d5b413)
Then just draw the road as normal, and It works:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm211%2Fpsander5%2FIL0004.jpg&hash=c04019edaa920561fe7af1c780d79e8a2ad7b508)
On second thoughts, an avenue might be better... all those traffic lights make it look funky!
I've tried all the suggestions in this thread, but nothing I've tried fixes this particular immortality. Luckily, this station was the very first thing I've built in the region, and I have a virgin backup, so I can just roll back to that. I was lucky I hadn't tried to plop it in an existing city!
Just to add a bit more evidence, I used this lot in a city I made over a year ago, before the auto complete FARR pieces were a part of the NAM, and It never went immortal:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm211%2Fpsander5%2FNew%2520Gelderland%2FCentralStation800.jpg&hash=c05d4172752f4f2811b9c67883fe0177d4e948fd)
As I said at the start of this post, I know nothing about transit modding, so I don't know if the lot modding can be altered to prevent this conflict happening, but I hope this info is useful to anyone who might know better. At the very least, this post might help people prevent their Warsaw Main Station from going immortal!
Nice work ;)
I will have to check this lot out as well.
Interesting discoveries psander5. If it helps at all, when I had my problem it was surrounded on three sides by the maxis ave-4.
I honestly can't remember how I had the roads set up ... interesting find :)
One way I removed the Warsaw Main Railway Station:
Step 1) The station is plopped and then roads dragged over the TE to make the FARR pieces auto-build. This creates the first of Psander5 images.
Step 2) The entire lot is demolished. This leaves the lot as only an immortal/reluctant building.
Step 3) Roads are dragged over the entire lot. I think there was a problem with the TE/underground rail, but this solves it. The roads are then demolished.
Step 4) I placed a Soccer Field where the building was. I imagine you could place a school, or a open grass area, or whatever. The building can now be removed.
I tested that it was gone by zoning over where the lot used to be, and everything was fine.
Yeah, your suggestion to plop a simple maxis grass tile worked great for me a while back when nothing else would.
Thanks for that Lowkee33! I had tried the maxis grass tile earlier, but I didn't do the roads step beforehand, so they wouldn't plop under the building. Thanks to your thorough step-by-step, it worked!
Just a little heads up.
I just encountered this problem with [ur=http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=865l]Mattb325's Emu Plains Railway Station[/url]. It has the rail running through it, but no other TE'ing.
It happened because I tried to use the NAM auto wide curves on the rail too close to the station. I managed to remove the model after a few tries with the method outlined by Lowkee33. However, doing that I suffered a couple of CTD's while trying to delete the grass. Also, I accidentally deleted the model by deleting only one of the grass tiles, witch turned the remaining grass tiles into immortal lots (or models). So, it seems this method is not without problems either.
Regrettably, and most important, it seems to corroborate the theory that the NAM auto completion feature for wide curves and FAR can cause this situation. It can easily be reproduced.
The immortal model:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg227.imageshack.us%2Fimg227%2F7599%2Ftarkinmay19091295538836.jpg&hash=b38c758185c0791208a1c0e4ca74778f1f7cd9c5)
After roads, then grass:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F8872%2Ftarkinmay19091295539531.jpg&hash=04f54458970ce39fff259b7ac67dde5cf9a1ca16)
Then I was able to remove it:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg19.imageshack.us%2Fimg19%2F2581%2Ftarkinmay19091295539548.jpg&hash=b8b8a0217d1d7fd952ad945dc99a31b66d8083f1)
Interesting. Can we say that changing the orientation of a TE texture causes this?
The lot doesn't have to be TE for NAM pieces to mess with it. I have no idea on how the pieces work, but many times you can plop a piece so that it ends up on an existing lot and cause the texture problem.
Theoretically, you only need to place one grass area on a place where the Occupant Size box exists. Not too sure what caused your CTD or immortal grasses though (perhaps not covering the whole OS).
With a 3x2 lot you may have better luck with the elementary school. Perhaps you could quickly make your own lot that is the correct size for the specific purpose of removal.
Maybe it wasn't clear, but I did manage to get rid of it with the road-grass method after a couple of tries.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on January 20, 2011, 01:57:57 PM
Interesting. Can we say that changing the orientation of a TE texture causes this?
I don't know much about modding, but I did notice the original TE'd texture disappear, so that may be an explanation. However, that doesn't explain why it happens in the examples from maxisland (which I'm guessing doesn't have the NAM). Also, as you said:
Quote
The lot doesn't have to be TE for NAM pieces to mess with it. I have no idea on how the pieces work, but many times you can plop a piece so that it ends up on an existing lot and cause the texture problem.
The two cases (with and without TE) may have different explanations, but the common factor is the NAM pieces. You're just more likely to have it occur on TE-lots and with the new auto completion feature in the NAM. Especially with lots TE'd like the Warsaw station.
Anyways, maybe the NAM-team should be made aware of this, so the fix maybe posted on their board.
*edit: I posted a msg in the NAM issues thread pointing to this.
I am not too sure why Maxisland has this problem either. My guess would be that it is a non-rushhour region, and Maxis did something to the texture in the update. I believe the whole point of it was to show us all a vanilla works.
NAM isn't the cause of this problem, but it is a catalyst. Somewhere in the relationship between different types of textures things get screwy.