Ok so I'm in the process of still installing stuff off the LEX Disk. After installing ALL dependencies and ALL external dependencies, I noticed that my plug-in folder has 2.02 Gigs of stuff in. This is without installing anything else from the LEX Disk. However most of the files in dependencies and external seem to be .DAT files. I have been told not to compress or use Dat packer on these files. So is 2.02 Gigs normal to start with? Won't that still take some minutes to load, when loading the game? When I check the SC4 file all together, the file itself is 2.15 gigs.
What should I do?
You can DatPack anything. The largest file size is near 250mg, so if you had 8 packed files, this is all you need.
In General, it is best not to datpack NAM, as it makes updates easier. If you do, I wouldn't recommend dapacking NAM with your houses though.
Another example to take care of is when you have a terrain mod, and use something like Ennedi's slope mod. The terrain mod has it's file name, and Ennedi's mod's name starts with a "z". You could DatPack these together no problem, except that now you are forced to use Ennedi's slope mod with that file.
I have a non-datpacked plugin folder somewhere else on my computer, and datpacked in plugins. I change things around a lot so when I do it is in the non-packed folder, then delete the packed stuff, and repack...
Also, DatPacker is not a compressor. It will not include duplicate or image files, so you may save space that way. If you have a TON of files you will save space with only having one directory entry. With no duplicates or images, DatPacker will save Bytes on MB.
2 gigs is fine. The less the better (IMHO), game runs faster and less likely to have problems. I have about 400mb, but I know there are a bunch of base textures I am not going to use...
Quote from: finaltable on April 03, 2011, 05:04:22 PM
I have been told not to compress or use Dat packer on these files.
That is misinformation. You can pack .dat files such as those found in the BSC\PROPS\ ... or BSC\Textures\ . . .
On rare occasions I have a problem with packing very large folders such as BSC or CAM but that's due to lack of memory.
I actually pack the NAM although others say not too. The reason is that updates don't happen that often. I do a fresh pack about twice a year. On the other hand, I like to tinker with all my agriculture lots and make changes often. So I don't pack the farms folder.
Lowkee gives good advice - leave the Z folders unpacked.
Thanks for your advice Lowkee33 and jmyers2043. I will refer back to this thread when it comes time to do the Dat Packing. Probably have some more questions by then.
Quote from: jmyers2043 on April 04, 2011, 05:19:36 AM
That is misinformation. You can pack .dat files such as those found in the BSC\PROPS\ ... or BSC\Textures\ . . .
On rare occasions I have a problem with packing very large folders such as BSC or CAM but that's due to lack of memory.
I actually pack the NAM although others say not too. The reason is that updates don't happen that often. I do a fresh pack about twice a year. On the other hand, I like to tinker with all my agriculture lots and make changes often. So I don't pack the farms folder.
Lowkee gives good advice - leave the Z folders unpacked.
I pack the NAM as well with no problems. I do keep an unpacked backup of my plugins folder in the sc4 folder so when I do need to make changes, I can just delete the current plugins folder (with the packed files) rename the back-up folder to 'Plugins' and make the changes and repack. It really isn't that difficult to do, and makes things much easier.
FYI, I rename the plugins folder to 'Plugins2' to keep it as a back-up and that works out just fine.
Now, I have a 1 TB HD so space is not an issue for me (I don't play that many PC games), but if you do have space issues, a USB external drive for the back up is a way to do it (I have one of those as well in case the HD does crash...its happened to me before...most irritating).
I will take Lowkee's advice and redo it so my Z-folders are unpacked...I have packed them to this point, and that may explain the occasional random crash I have. To simplify matters, I can always make a seperate folder named 'Z-files' and copy paste into the plugins folder as needed.
I'm sure there are several different ways to go about this and get the results you need. :)
The only reason not to datpack a "z" folder is because often these are items that one would only use as needed, for example, you wouldn't necessarily datpack Ennedi's Jagged Edge mod into the terrain mod, because then you would have to reinstall the terrain mod if you didn't want to use it.
You don't technically need files to start with a z either. The Jagged Edge mod uses the Terrain Properties Exemplar. You could open the original terrain mod and remove this exemplar. At this point you may only have one Terrain Properties Exemplar in your plugin folder, and the naming/load order of either file does not matter.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 07, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
The only reason not to datpack a "z" folder is because often these are items that one would only use as needed, for example, you wouldn't necessarily datpack Ennedi's Jagged Edge mod into the terrain mod, because then you would have to reinstall the terrain mod if you didn't want to use it.
You don't technically need files to start with a z either. The Jagged Edge mod uses the Terrain Properties Exemplar. You could open the original terrain mod and remove this exemplar. At this point you may only have one Terrain Properties Exemplar in your plugin folder, and the naming/load order of either file does not matter.
Thank you for clarifying. Since I don't really change out mods (not at all in fact) then I should be good to keep packing them. :)
Basically I only use Cycledogg's Columbus Terrain mod with the additional 5000m height mod, Mas71's water mod, and Ennedi's slope mod. So from the sounds of it, I'm good.
Quote from: Shark7 on April 08, 2011, 07:45:09 AM
Basically I only use Cycledogg's Columbus Terrain mod with the additional 5000m height mod, Mas71's water mod, and Ennedi's slope mod. So from the sounds of it, I'm good.
Slope mod no problem. As long as you only have one, the order doesn't matter.
Mas71's water mod is fine. You just don't want to pack it because it will make switching it out more complicated (but you could pack it if that was fine with you. At one point I had all of the tree controller dependencies packed with the tree controller, but this just made things more complicated). All water mods are individual files, so in your case, rather than name Mas71's with a "z" you can just take out Cycledogg's.
If you want to learn more you can download ILive's Reader (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=656) with it's support page Here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=18.0). For example, if you open CP's terrain mod with Reader, you can set the height to 5000, at which point you don't need the Height Mod. If you do this, I would also recommend you check out the "Temperature Range Factor" in the Height Mod, and change the value in the CP to this if needed.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 08, 2011, 08:59:01 AM
Slope mod no problem. As long as you only have one, the order doesn't matter.
Mas71's water mod is fine. You just don't want to pack it because it will make switching it out more complicated (but you could pack it if that was fine with you. At one point I had all of the tree controller dependencies packed with the tree controller, but this just made things more complicated). All water mods are individual files, so in your case, rather than name Mas71's with a "z" you can just take out Cycledogg's.
If you want to learn more you can download ILive's Reader (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=656) with it's support page Here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=18.0). For example, if you open CP's terrain mod with Reader, you can set the height to 5000, at which point you don't need the Height Mod. If you do this, I would also recommend you check out the "Temperature Range Factor" in the Height Mod, and change the value in the CP to this if needed.
And I continue to learn. I've used ILive reader before and have it installed on my PC. I just never realized I could modify the mod files with it. I've mostly used ILive reader in the past to put in a menu description on education buildings that don't specify what they are in the name so I can remember if its Elementry, High School or College. I will take a look at the terrain mod with this when I get home (posting from work) just to see what it looks like.
I use DocRorlach's DIC (Download and Installation Catalogue) which you can find at http://www.sc4tools.co.uk/sc4t_dic_main.asp (http://www.sc4tools.co.uk/sc4t_dic_main.asp) . Combined with the DATPacker it makes things easy to install and organize lots/modds into SC4. With the DATPacker I don't have to manually deleted and move the compressed files. It does it for me. I'm really surprised I don't see a lot more people using it.
I also use SUM (Startup Manager) which you can find at http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/21376-sc4-startup-manager/ (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/21376-sc4-startup-manager/). I like to use different police/fire in different cities. I also like to use different terrain mods and this utility makes it really easy to switch. Just set it and forget it. I don't have to remember if I need to move anything in and out of folders.
Quote from: sim_vern on April 20, 2011, 08:07:22 PM
I use DocRorlach's DIC (Download and Installation Catalogue) which you can find at http://www.sc4tools.co.uk/sc4t_dic_main.asp (http://www.sc4tools.co.uk/sc4t_dic_main.asp) . Combined with the DATPacker it makes things easy to install and organize lots/modds into SC4. With the DATPacker I don't have to manually deleted and move the compressed files. It does it for me. I'm really surprised I don't see a lot more people using it.
I also use SUM (Startup Manager) which you can find at http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/21376-sc4-startup-manager/ (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/21376-sc4-startup-manager/). I like to use different police/fire in different cities. I also like to use different terrain mods and this utility makes it really easy to switch. Just set it and forget it. I don't have to remember if I need to move anything in and out of folders.
Do these work under windows 7 without having to do anything special? The main hindrance to me is getting things to work correctly under Win 7.
Well, I personnally think that packing the pluginfiles is all a question of the power of your computer. I have a dual core 2.8 gz with 2K RAM and a pluginfolder of 14 Gb's ....non datpacked. It runs fairly well, except for large cities that I have to turn off trafficview during RH.
What I like most about NOT datpacking all the files is that I can change everything whenever I want to (every detail and quickly and easily). EX: I play with dozens of different terrain (etc) mods, or simply change the water or rockmod on a tile for a short time and instead creating dozens of datfiles with dozens of terraincombinations for dozens of tiles and dozens of regions...oufff. I can do this with simply changing one single file that I have ready all the time in another Pluginsfolder (called Plugins1).
If your computer can handle the Gb's in your pluginsfolder and if you are willing to sacrifice a few minor details here and there (you're not missing much anyways), I recommend to leave everything undat..ed. Much easier to control your custom gamestuff.
You can make pictures of heavy traffic anyways in big cities, just turn all the details on for the moment of taking the picture.
That's how I function since 8 years.... ;)
Fred
Quote from: Shark7 on April 21, 2011, 07:08:23 AM
Do these work under windows 7 without having to do anything special? The main hindrance to me is getting things to work correctly under Win 7.
They run swimmingly in Win 7. I have it on the 64 bit version with no issues at all. Once you use the DIC you will wonder how you did without it.
Quote from: mrbisonm on April 21, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
What I like most about NOT datpacking all the files is that I can change everything whenever I want to (every detail and quickly and easily). EX: I play with dozens of different terrain (etc) mods, or simply change the water or rockmod on a tile for a short time and instead creating dozens of datfiles with dozens of terraincombinations for dozens of tiles and dozens of regions...oufff. I can do this with simply changing one single file that I have ready all the time in another Pluginsfolder (called Plugins1).
If your computer can handle the Gb's in your pluginsfolder and if you are willing to sacrifice a few minor details here and there (you're not missing much anyways), I recommend to leave everything undat..ed. Much easier to control your custom gamestuff.
You can make pictures of heavy traffic anyways in big cities, just turn all the details on for the moment of taking the picture.
That's how I function since 8 years.... ;)
Fred
Have you tried Start Up Manager? It makes it so easy to customize different regions/cities only you don't have to manually move anything at all.
Quote from: sim_vern on April 21, 2011, 08:45:02 PM
Have you tried Start Up Manager? It makes it so easy to customize different regions/cities only you don't have to manually move anything at all.
lol....yes I did, some time ago. If you only have 3 or 5 different regions to play, then this would be just perfect. I play too many regions at the same time (more than 20 at the moment) and therefore I would need a bigger computer just to hold all the different plugins in that many copies.
I am pretty sure the way I change my plugins at the moment cannot be improved. I do it manually and with a perfect organization. To load a region's plugins to my liking takes me no more than 1 minute.
Fred
Quote from: mrbisonm on April 21, 2011, 09:04:07 PM
I play too many regions at the same time (more than 20 at the moment) and therefore I would need a bigger computer just to hold all the different plugins in that many copies.
Fred
Maybe I'm not understanding something here. (Wouldn't be the first time and definitely not the last. :) ) But it doesn't matter how many different regions you have with SUM. In fact, you have the option of hiding the ones you don't use often just for organizational sake. SUM doesn't make multiple copies of your plugins. Maybe you were using an earlier version of SUM? The latest version of SUM is 3.
EDIT: I actually think that the more customized your regions are the more the reason to use SUM. And I only customize police, fire, and sanitation vehicles; terrain mods, and demand mods.
The DIC, DAMN, and SUM makes SC4 a breeze to organize and combined with the DATPacker really optimizes its performance and ease of use.
Myabe SUM3 is a better version than I used, or maybe it's the same, one thing though, I've got used to do it my way and have no intentions to change.
Btw, I don't just change few things like Police, terrain, mods etc, but I change a whole lotts lots, such as harbours, airports, suburbs, downtowns etc, sometimes I change 4 GB's.
I have all my changeable packages organized in a way that the Plugins can be organized within a minute or faster, believe me, it works.
Thanks for the recommandation though. ;)
Fred
Quote from: mrbisonm on April 22, 2011, 03:41:34 AM
Myabe SUM3 is a better version than I used, or maybe it's the same, one thing though, I've got used to do it my way and have no intentions to change.
Btw, I don't just change few things like Police, terrain, mods etc, but I change a whole lotts lots, such as harbours, airports, suburbs, downtowns etc, sometimes I change 4 GB's.
I have all my changeable packages organized in a way that the Plugins can be organized within a minute or faster, believe me, it works.
Thanks for the recommandation though. ;)
Fred
I believe in the old adage that if it works don't mess with it, so good for you. Do you use DAMN or are you just used to the large menus?
Quote from: sim_vern on April 22, 2011, 08:44:48 AM
I believe in the old adage that if it works don't mess with it, so good for you. Do you use DAMN or are you just used to the large menus?
Well, you got that right, if it works leave it like this, and believe me it does (for me anyways)
No, I don't use DAMN neither. I learned that too many programs, mods and dependencies slow down and mostly complicate the game too much.
My News popups are totally shut down, no popups at all, no news, no bad news, right?lol
Just to say a word in between..... with my 14 GB's of plugins (both C/Prog/Max/Plugins and MyDoc/SC4/Plugins) well organized as is, never ....and I said NEVER, had any problems of crashing to desktop, like I hear people complaining so often. I think, that it happened once when I downloaded some stuff from PEG, which wasn't compatible with the rest of custom content, nor the game.
Maybe that's because of the way that I handle my Plugins.
I can just imagine how frustrating it could be to loose an hour or two of work (gameplay) when the game crashes to the desktop....wow, I'd probably kill my computer....lol
Fred
Nice to see this thread take off, and get a lot of useful information put into it. :thumbsup: Well I decided to start over on my plugins folder. This time I was more selective on what I wanted in the game, (instead of everything off the LEX DISK) and this time I didn't Dat Pack anything. My laptop loads the game in about 1min. 30sec. and the game runs fine as far as speed.
I haven't organized my plugins folder yet. Still something I need to get to. The one problem that I have been having is the game crashing... :angrymore: I decided to read up, about the SC4 crashes on just about every site I could find. Let me tell you, there are many, many, MANY, theories!
After reading through so much, I decided that before I mess with running through my plugins folder, trying decide what could cause it there, or reinstalling the game, that I would take a look at my laptop itself.
I do all the maintenance on my laptop, to keep it clean, and refreshed. However I noticed that I have a "printer status monitor" that runs all the time. Often it does something? lol Not sure what it's doing, looking for an update or trying to connect to the printer, anyways I only connect the printer when needed.
So I decide to close out the printer status monitor, and when doing so the game doesn't seem to crash, or nowhere near as often. %confuso So we will see.
But to get back to the thread, I have a great IMB Lenovo laptop with XP, that is running great even not Dat Packing. O and this time after selecting only what I wanted, I now have 2.6 gigs of stuff in my plugins folder instead of the 4. The game still ran just as good with the 4 gigs but just to much to scroll through in the menus. Thanks for everyones replies, I will refer back to this thread anytime I want to Dat Pack.