SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Hello!

I've recently started a city that has a mix of farms and skyscrapers... (yes... there's an actual mix...)

Hope no one shoots me down right away for mentioning him, but Pegasus recently released the SPAM farming mod that overrides the CAM in the agricultural sector. There are a few things I noted with his approach compared to the CAM approach that I think would be useful (for me at least):

- farming persists even after extensive city development and indicator changes... this is the biggest problem with current farms as they won't grow with my skyscrapers... one would think the food demand could actually cap the city developments due to lack of food supply... the other big problem is trying to regrow things that you accidentally bulldozed, which is impossible with the current mechanics as it won't grow back at all.
- variable zone shapes and sizes... shapes aren't that useful; however having smaller zones could help replicate community gardens better... in fact there's the odd case of a farm operating solely from community gardens in Vancouver... that's probably on the extreme end though
- no water pollution + reduced air pollution... probably a bit excessive, but there seems to be way too much water pollution at least for normal farmland... either that or I don't know how farmers in Alberta or Saskatchewan get their drinking water from if it's polluted.

At the same time, I do want to keep the CAM in place due to the breadth of types and zones that it covers and how it allows really tall and/or dense developments to be represented extremely accurately in the game engine. In addition, I think one or two other additions might be useful:
- reduce the effect of traffic on agriculture: it's very easy to depress a farm through traffic. Only 60 commuters there and back on a road four tiles away is enough to cause abandonment problems it seems.
- perhaps make it possible for for community gardens to grow? Current and SPAM minimum farm sizes don't really go that far.

So, with all of this in mind... I'm curious... is it possible for the BSC team to patch the game engine such that agriculture is better represented in game?

Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Hey Allen ...

Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on July 08, 2011, 11:28:27 PM
There are a few things I noted with his approach compared to the CAM approach that I think would be useful (for me at least):

The CAM is a city building mod. Improvements to farming are a side benefit. Whereas the SPAM is an agricultural extension to the MTP style of play. Two different goals.

Quoteis it possible for the BSC team to patch the game engine such that agriculture is better represented in game?

The first answer is yes, eventually. But it will not have some of the elements you like about the SPAM as there are two different philosophies about game play.

The second answer is ...  There are already some things going on behind the scenes. Spa has had a traffic mod for farms for his game on his computer for a couple of years. A few months back he asked in the private BSC threads for some testers. There is a Maxis version. ScottFL helped with a CAM version. The goal is to make traffic neutral. It works as advertised in that I was able to funnel 1,500 vehicles past some farms. There was no dilapidation of any field or loss of desirability of any farm lot. Note: I can divert 1,000 vehicles past farms using the SPAM and see dilapidation of BSC farm lots and fields. Spa's mod has no side affects that I saw. Such as extremely high agriculture job numbers report like the SPAM. And the RCI demands and desirability do not seem to be adversely affected either. Basically, it works pretty darn good.

Test city shot using the SPA mod - This is a medium city with a population of 40K+ EQ is 100 and climbing. The city is full up with low density RCI so I un-zoned six blocks of residential and zoned farms. Three farms grew. The dilapidation you see in the corner of the orchard field is due to air pollution from the nearby industrial park. 

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2007%2F7%2F4%2F1237795%2Fspa_05.jpg&hash=ad8814c7f63c88324cce089174da7784d2c6a4c3)

CAM 2 has been in the works for two years too. There are 3 versions. CAM 2 rural, normal, and ultra. A question that was asked at the beginning was difficulty. The consensus was for a game that challenges. Makes you feel like your about to fail. One has to be a smart mayor to succeed. All the testers had sloppy habits that caused us to go into the poor house or not be able to build the cities we were accustomed too at the beginning. One has to pay attention to finances, zone wisely, use the tax code, etc.

My focus was on the rural version. I had the SPAM before many and did some beta testing before its general release. It's basically the opposite of what the CAM2 testers wanted. You noted above that you have farms and skyscrappers side by side. You're right. I can grew farms using the SPAM from now until forever no matter how bad a mayor I was. I didn't have to think about money or plan too much. Just zoned like crazy and farms grew no matter what.

Here's a shot of a CAM 2 test city. Farms are simple enough in a city all by themselves. But how about a large city tile that is mostly urban? This is a large city. The population is currently 74K+ and the EQ is 132 and rising. There was a spot of industry that was not developing so I re-zoned as agriculture just to see if I could.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2007%2F7%2F4%2F1237795%2Fcam2-1171.jpg&hash=a6bc46b99347103438311dfd6aaf8ca0e30bcbdc)

So that is what is going on behind the scenes. Although, CAM 2  is on hold for a while. Those of us working on it got burned out.

Here are some thoughts about your other comments...

1. Your idea of grow-able community gardens is a good one.

2. You're right. A good example of water pollution are the Maxis apple orchards and orange groves. Way high. That's a field problem. Not the CAM per se. SimGoober or Barby (BLS) would have to alter their fields and reload to the LEX to totally eliminate that problem. But, R$ don't care that much about that sort of thing. They like to work in the fields. The SPAM on the other hand has R$$$ working in the fields - bankers picking broccoli.

3. Your right about traffic and i feel your pain. It's crazy to create the right conditions to grow a bunch of farms only to have the fields turn to crud due to freight trucks generated by those farms. Here is where Spa's mod is brilliant. CAM 2 reduces the traffic affect but one still has to pay attention to traffic patterns - make use of freight trains - etc. . .

The CAM looks at the game from one perspective and the SPAM another. One is not better than the other ... they're different. The end user will decide.

Sorry for the long post. I think I've commented on most of the things you brought up.

Good Luck

- Jim

<edit>

QuoteHope no one shoots me down right away for mentioning him

Bang! Bang! You're dead.    :D   


<another edit>

I have the SPAM but I modified it. Basically I have the buildings because they are brilliant but got rid of all the game play altering stuff.

Thank you for the reply. =)

So... just curious... did that farm in the middle of the city grow after all? Or did it stay unused?

I also acknowledge that its pretty rare to see skyscrapers surrounded by farms... one can wish... but yeah in terms of realism... that may not pass. ^_^;

Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on July 09, 2011, 11:34:57 PM
So... just curious... did that farm in the middle of the city grow after all? Or did it stay unused?

The three zones grew farms the others did not. Demand dropped to zero. No demand, no growth. Some R$ Sims acutally went to work on the farms. EQ in general is increasing. Sims want to work less for I-D and I-AG  and want to work at CO. Spa's mod is all about traffic effect ... he leaves all other agriculture penalties (air pollution, rising land value) alone.

- Jim

Okay. I see. Yeah... the second pic you showed me sort of confused me... I thought you only rezoned the plot on the upper corner of that industrial zone. ^^;