How do we make them? :)
Is it from BAT, or scratch?
Lowkee, I could of swarn I saw you do stuff before.
There is a file that I sadly can't remember where, that I know Alex (Tarkus) has attached to a thread somewhere, that did allow full 3D-rendering from the B.A.T. instead of the SC4 rendering that is not really true 3D when you look at it in iReader. Said file, I had on my old system, but not anymore. Doing your own 3D from the ground up in any event is more advanced stuff. I had to take some serious classes in high school, or starting at middle school, with giant textbooks on rendering stuff via Autocad. While I know there was other free modeling software I could of used, and Gmax in which BAT is built off can be used for other means, I just never got around to using said modeling software for other stuff, other then SC4.
As for making stuff from scratch, the good news is Gmax gives you a bunch of 3D shapes from a menu somewhere, you can alter them and build stuff off of those. I can tell you straight off the bat, that I am not a mathmatical expert, but the whole thing is BAT does require a lot of calculations and positive/negative coordinates involving the XYZ thing. Getting texture material to map however, is another story.
Vester was (still is?) using MilkShape for his trams. As far as I can remember there was a free (trial) download, expiring in 1 or 2 months, and then you had to purchase it (some $25 or so). Funny thing, they wanted the money in banknotes, enclosed in an ordinary mail envelope, lol!!! Tax evasion? Most probably yes!
Otherwise you can use any other SW capable of saving in .3DS (at least as an export format) which you can subsequently import in the reader. I think gmax can export in this format, but needs an additional plugin (can't remember exactly, it was long ago). I'm not sure about materials, I guess you can have one material (FSH) per model, and use a technique like UWV unwrap, to map each vertex in the material. Take a look at the materials used in vehicle models.
QuoteFunny thing, they wanted the money in banknotes, enclosed in an ordinary mail envelope, lol!!! Tax evasion? Most probably yes!
Scary.
Thanks for the help. I found the file J-dub referenced. (These days, when you click to see someone's posts, you can find an "attachment" tab). If you're really lazy, here's a link - Click (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3917.msg122193#msg122193). Batted a little cube, and there it is, 3D
Though the material side of things will need some thought
this altered buildingmill does what? lol
From what I see, it renders the entire LOD, not just the visible faces of that zoom/rotation. It's necessary for networks, automata, and other effects.
interesting... :satisfied:
Quote from: cogeo on January 13, 2012, 12:07:33 PM
Vester was (still is?) using MilkShape for his trams. As far as I can remember there was a free (trial) download, expiring in 1 or 2 months, and then you had to purchase it (some $25 or so).
Yes I am still using the program and when I am doing new models I use it in combination with LithUnwrap.
Quote from: cogeo on January 13, 2012, 12:07:33 PM
Funny thing, they wanted the money in banknotes, enclosed in an ordinary mail envelope, lol!!! Tax evasion? Most probably yes!
If you go to Milkshape3d.com (http://milkshape3d.com/) or share*it! (https://secure.shareit.com/shareit/checkout.html?productid=171063), you can pay it with PayPal or credit card .
Quote from: Lowkee33 on January 13, 2012, 02:40:06 PM
From what I see, it renders the entire LOD, not just the visible faces of that zoom/rotation. It's necessary for networks, automata, and other effects.
Quote from: gn_leugim on January 14, 2012, 05:17:32 AM
interesting... :satisfied:
Indeed, interesting!
If you model something very complex, I think there is a way of rendering a texture to attach to a simpler model that have the details from the more complex model.
Think the process is called baking a texture, but hey haven't tried it.
Quote from: Lowkee33
Quote
Though the material side of things will need some thought
Well, what type of material(s) are you looking for?
Quote from: j-dub on January 15, 2012, 08:45:02 AMWell, what type of material(s) are you looking for?
I don't even know yet. :D It's a twisted story leading from the EffectDir to Animated S3Ds. It's more about what can be done rather than what is going to be done.
I've been diving into the EffectDir, and pretty much every S3D it references is in 3D. Try using the effect cheat with "commerce_ind1_sodamachines". A soda machine will appear, it is a 3D model.
I'm trying not to dive too deep before my terrain is done. The effects can be quite interesting. For example, "kid_soccerteam" has animated S3Ds that are attracted to a rotating FSH (kids chasing a soccer ball). The ball is repulsed by the by the kids, and so it kind of looks like a soccer game. Not only is the movement of the game different every time, but some the kids have different radii for how close the ball needs to be before they chase it. I don't think I'm going too far to say that all of this is moddable.
Back to S3Ds. S3Ds can be animated, and since they use vertices for how large they are, they can be made HD. This is different than regular animations, because their size is dependent upon the size of the FSH imagaes. I've only been able to animate them in-game by having them be effects (though it appears they can go straight to prop exemplar). Check out the exemplar 6534284A, C977C536, 294A0000 in SimCity_1.dat, it's a state fair sign, pointing to an animated S3D.
The perspective of the FSH is looking directly at the image, rather than SC4 views. This means that the LOD has to be the shape of the model, so I wont be making complicated things. I just don't know what those are yet. The test S3Ds I've made are animated way too fast in-game.
I know there are three forms of content you submit excited. Animations through the textures (as quoted BAB) widely used in the game for Sims and on which there is no longer match any secrets on how to make (Very limited by the size of the textures and frames as well as being a huge hassle)
Those made through a real 3D animated models such as those below ..
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AWfXd24pXnk/TxMb92y_cFI/AAAAAAAABLQ/lMOG6EfDC8s/s576/REAL%2525203D%252520TEXTURA.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--8JZlM5tSo0/TxMbuzb3PGI/AAAAAAAABLI/Y6w-QH3eaqQ/s576/REAL%2525203D%252520MALHA.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yKtSIu3AiTk/TxOubM4idcI/AAAAAAAABNM/HitbEgT4G3g/s160/AutoScreenRecorder_05%252520Oct.%25252029%25252018.34.gif.gif)
and whose full video of nearly 15 seconds can be seen on the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50ypZDYAfU&context=C3b8917cADOEgsToPDskLHpz3Tqa9_dHj7uuLnNtON (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50ypZDYAfU&context=C3b8917cADOEgsToPDskLHpz3Tqa9_dHj7uuLnNtON)
That is why I felt kind of weird when you referred to the LOD's to make real animations. There's LOD in this case they are fully rendered 3D models. This form and the construction of such puzzles made with BuildingMill made in exchange for BAT and as far as I know there is no similar to BATMAX4 by Simfox. (If there is I want the link please, thanks!)
And finally those made on the Effectdir which are actually also based on real 3D models and to draw upon all such automatose game. You may notice that all automata have an animation even if all vertices are equal. And the form of displacement which is effected in Effectdir. In this case the closest I have ever seen of real changes were made by GIZMO but require almost Herculean task of editing the file in HEX for its construction do not see why tens of populating the animations download sites.
To finish a thought. Maybe the animations would facilitate more problems than benefits in the same way that the textures in HD. It is worth remembering that this is a game in 12 years time and that is designed to be a city administrator. (Although the developers themselves have been lost over the goal which explains the huge amount of unfinished projects, and finally the game needed to be released to be sold)
Sorry for the english greetings
I get your point NCGAIO. There isn't any confusion though. While my terrain mod is on the front burner, I have a fair amount of projects waiting in the back. Recently I have created instances of every type of animation I discussed (BAB, S3D, 3D animations, Texture animations).
Your image brings up the main point of this thread, and that is that making a 3d S3D by hand is a daunting task.
But it would be very naive to think that the more than a dozen animations like the one shown and which are present in DAT1 were modeled at the vertices by Maxis. Course were created as a common and rendered animations for the game with something that BAT did not provide. Something like the real 3d rendering for previously mentioned, this would make very simple animations render.
Maybe some of our teachers programmers no longer have it on the drawing board ...
While it may not come forward maybe some animated creation by moving the model with the SC4 Tweaker Cogeo of using Excel as a clip board. is the way I do though have the inconvenience of having to save the job for each modification to avoid losing everything when the Reader lock in paste.
Quote from: NCGAIO on January 15, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
While it may not come forward maybe some animated creation by moving the model with the SC4 Tweaker Cogeo of using Excel as a clip board. is the way I do though have the inconvenience of having to save the job for each modification to avoid losing everything when the Reader lock in paste.
Reader 1.4 is a little iffy with copy/paste. Better to use the old one (Link (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=656)) for something like that.
Use the oldest to do so but this also hangs what we consider normal because the editing was not done for this trick. I found four gif images of works in the BAB movement that wanted to show but unfortunately there is no way put them today ... Then if you want to see tomorrow is due to be here. The animations extend by four tiles, and although the final size of the plugin scare
I decided to take more time and post the pictures today (do not know if this would have time tomorrow). That's more or less an idea of the work shift to be done on the S3D think a lot of animations on the same models would only be possible through the EffectDir.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg183.imageshack.us%2Fimg183%2F7797%2Fanimation05ur01du8.gif&hash=d45ba60ce4050296ca2b96ff70a7f5489a70c34c)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F1604%2Fanimation05ur02hk0.gif&hash=c5e881f7bf0d3d689a26df1b5a85c67ef426e973)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F4248%2Fanimation04go3.gif&hash=c340f07d853477bdac88d512c27294c24e329ab1)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg385.imageshack.us%2Fimg385%2F7620%2Fanimation07bridge1fa2.gif&hash=36edcfd936fc194e77f3c74016487e6317b3a132)
What in the world are those!? :o I never seen those before!
Those are pictures Mas71 posted a while back - Link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8003.msg250454#msg250454)
Exactly! I think if he had posted the images instead of links would have aroused greater interest. However the final size of the plugin still seems to be a problem for long animations by this method ... In addition to the known problems ...
"Unidentified problem
- "How many kinds of animation" effects at the badly-SC4 system.
But When the animations are too much to display, the SC4-system Seems to skip
frames overflowed. "
Just to show the point ... took all day to make this animation.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iYoS4trmoH0
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g_hKYGWTja8/TxPit0aH1TI/AAAAAAAABOI/aGi6HcBQku0/s576/hipodromo%252520estatico.jpg)
The transition is much softer than that video of the show ...no time now to adjust
but to get an idea
Animated S3D Reader preview
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Hco6SWT-GrQ/TxPgY4Zb_ZI/AAAAAAAABN4/4kfWZ6Q-C2o/s320/hipodromo.gif)(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4iG_SYIZ7Qg/TxPvXsKTCnI/AAAAAAAABOg/1daogUlx4vE/s320/horse%252520for%252520race.gif)
To better see the video here's the youtube link ..
http://youtu.be/UZN_b_cwnSw (http://youtu.be/UZN_b_cwnSw)
Doing so is really boring ... repetitive work is over. Someone who has the gift and time available could well be interested in a script for the BAT.
You did that today!? Awesome! In theory the same script could be used for a blinking signal or something similar for a non-network traffic decoration.
For intermittent signals that you mentioned there are already three models in the game rendered in 3D to work in different ways:
- The rotation of a plane with the texture applied to a single face
- A plane with texture animation interval (Blink)
- The animation with fade in fade out (color gradient in texture)
. more like a traffic light
If you have any idea to use ... I can gather the material to show them here ....
solved?? ... dear friend, if only by the comments already resolved.
Who am I to prevent the subject that interested me most do not continue ....
I limit myself to reading your topic.
Quote from: NCGAIO on January 18, 2012, 11:05:57 AM
solved?? ... dear friend, if only by the comments already resolved.
Who am I to prevent the subject that interested me most do not proceed ....
I limit myself to reading your topic.
The purpose of this thread was for me to figure out if there was a faster way to create a fully 3d model than by scratch. The answer is yes, so the thread is "solved".
However, you are certainly welcome to continue the discussion. In fact, I invite you to start a new thread in another area of this forum (this is the help thread). You may find BAT projects (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0) or Mod Projects (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) to suit you more.
By all means, keep up the good work. I'm interested to know how you made the 3d model move in-game.
:thumbsup:
Very good ... I thought that somehow I was intruding on some development for you.
I do not think I am best suited to start a new topic about it but if they do I will be there to collaborate on what you can.
I look forward to ... greetings.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on January 18, 2012, 11:11:40 AM
...However, you are certainly welcome to continue the discussion. In fact, I invite you to start a new thread in another area of this forum (this is the help thread). You may find BAT projects (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0) or Mod Projects (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) to suit you more.
By all means, keep up the good work. I'm interested to know how you made the 3d model move in-game.
Quote from: NCGAIO on January 18, 2012, 11:27:59 AM
...I do not think I am best suited to start a new topic about it but if they do I will be there to collaborate on what you can...
Like
Lowkee33 I would like to see you continue with this, if you guys would like this topic splitting leaving
Lowkee33 topic here, and creating a new topic for
NCGAIO in the Modding section ... I'd be happy to do so, but only if
NCGAIO wants to do it :thumbsup:
I'm a little late to the party here, but I would like to point out that I also discovered independently that animated True-3D (RKT0) S3Ds could be used as props and these are the basis behind my railroad crossing props (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13209). (You can ignore the first few posts about ATC props, I dumped them after I had z-fighting issues.)
I personally used Blender to create and animate the models and exported animation frames as 3DS objects, importing them into the Reader and copy/pasting vertex groups and setting up my MATS and UV coordinates. It was tedious, but doable and I'm sure something better could be devised. I do also plan to make a tutorial explaining the process, I just haven't had time to put one together yet. &mmm
Quote from: jondor on February 27, 2012, 12:32:45 AM... importing them into the Reader and copy/pasting vertex groups and setting up my MATS and UV coordinates....
Pretty much what I would do. Reader has problems reading all of the vertices while running LUA scripts, so I nothing much for automation there. When I was talking about this, I actually made an arm that went up and down. For an animation like this, it was simple enough to do the vertex math in Excel. All of the animation blocks can use the same MAT and other blocks, it's just the vertex blocks that change (know what I mean?). I was kicking the SC4 gods for putting you through so much animation work when perhaps an S3D approach would get better results.
Despite being RKT0 the animations will only appear in RKT4 as you have in your models and the same way that Maxis has implemented own the game
There is a trick that makes it much easier to transfer the animations in 3DS made directly to the S3D without having to copy and paste vertices
In fact may be done in two ways .. or using the script for direct export to the Gmax ... or animation in Max and import the Reader ... as did Jondor just missed the trick that makes it unnecessary to copy and paste the vertices..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gXjA9N_I1Wo/T0wSlvCwsRI/AAAAAAAABRc/C9JVVvBuXkQ/s404/3DS%2520CRIA%25C3%2587%25C3%2583O%25202.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gqmjuLiKbLg/T0zQQhgrDjI/AAAAAAAABSM/V3YahHLIWRk/s473/READER%2520IMPORTA%25C3%2587AO%2520temp.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jot0vWpwhzg/T0vQHO5BokI/AAAAAAAABQg/4v-9fmNLfy0/s390/ANIMA%25C3%2587AO%2520NO%2520JOGO.gif)
If you guys are interested I can gather the material here.
The RR crossings do use RKT4s because they are multi-state, but for regular props (not timed or day/night dependent), RKT0 is fine. Just make sure the kSC4BuildingModelClassProperty exists with 1 rep (not 0) and that one rep has the value: 0xAA123BF9 That tells the game that this is an animated prop (ATC or S3D), otherwise it will act like a static prop and only display the first frame. I got True-3D traffic lights to work this way, as well as turning the riot squad into a generic prop as a test.
And one last thing, in the case of transit props and T21s, the RKTMisc property needs to point to a mirrored version of the prop. I find that the SC4 Model Tweaker is the best way to generate these. Just make a copy of the S3D and mirror it across the X-axis, it changes all the vertex groups and triangles perfectly.
If you refer to doing the lights for the exchange of texture as used in their models can even agree but when it comes to animation in motion they'll only come up with RKT4.
I did not understand very well what he said about the Shock Troop. it is the animation ATC / AVP you're turning into real S3D?
Edit: Ok! you referred to the group of three with cassette and shield ... I thought I was referring to troops on the march!
Cogeo - ModelTweaker is a really brilliant tools that have appeared here ... so the Devotion is still the best technical site for SC4.
Quote from: j-dub on January 16, 2012, 02:31:03 PM
You did that today!? Awesome! In theory the same script could be used for a blinking signal or something similar for a non-network traffic decoration.
As the material was in the same place I will enjoy the visit and leave an example for the question.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ly6AL29c3pY/T0v7jGMYawI/AAAAAAAABRM/UwZ0d0KsMW4/s384/Ncgaio_ScreenRecorder_04%2520Feb.%252027%252019.45.gif.gif)
In lieu of a pending tutorial, here's an example using the same riot squad animation from SimCity_1.dat that I used when I figuring this stuff out. Drop the attached dat into your plugins and plop either a road stub or find the included lot in the parks menu (I used the 1x1 open paved area, so it should be near the top, look for the riot squad in the preview pic). Both of them animate just fine as a RKT0 prop.
Small problems ...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GrdqVNMxUuY/T0xOJP5o3_I/AAAAAAAABRw/gEtHgIAgHMg/s646/RODA%2520NO%2520JOGO.gif)
Set the "is Ground Model" property of the prop exemplar to false, adding it if necessary (it should be a zero-rep property with the single value 0). Animated props can't cast shadows correctly, unless they don't change shape.
This will completely remove the shadow, but it's a small price to pay.
Ok! Could you tell me where I think this table with information about the data that you quotes for properties? .. I have seen some data only in the posts between the mod creators.
Thank you!
In my C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps folder (the one with the .exe) I have a file "ingred.ini". This is a great source of information.
It is interesting that you have shadows at all. I guess that means animations don't have to be 3d.
Nice ferris wheel. A little to narrow though, and moving pretty fast.
I got most of my info just by looking at existing exemplars in the Reader. For instance, create a simple test prop using the BAT/Maxis PIM and look at the properties it creates, then copy and adjust them as necessary.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on February 28, 2012, 06:14:36 AM
In my C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps folder (the one with the .exe) I have a file "ingred.ini". This is a great source of information.
This file that everyone talks about is not present on my server maybe for being the original game to update patches. If not bother could put it in the mail I gave you. Thank you.
Quote
It is interesting that you have shadows at all. I guess that means animations don't have to be 3d.
But it is precisely because of the way the animations are in 3D rendering we can see all the details in the shade that allows light to pass through ..
Unlike the Ferryswheel maxis that as you can see below has two planes with texture alpha to show the rings.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8kKdgMu0_bA/T01WhJfOuXI/AAAAAAAABSw/PXzi3BU-koE/s380/textura%2520roda%2520gigante.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-%3Cbr%20/%3EG_mxkXcbq6c/T01FeIYLQwI/AAAAAAAABSk/AMjtBDdpT-Q/s384/Ncgaio_ScreenRecorder_03%2520Feb.%252028%252019.14.gif)
So maybe eliminated the shadow only show the square.
Quote
Nice ferris wheel. A little to narrow though, and moving pretty fast.
Thanks again .may slow down the decrease of the frame rate but to avoid hiccups would have to increase frames ... for now I'm still behind a solution for shadows maybe making a model like Maxxis makes your animateds
Quote from: jondor on February 28, 2012, 11:04:03 AM
I got most of my info just by looking at existing exemplars in the Reader. For instance, create a simple test prop using the BAT/Maxis PIM and look at the properties it creates, then copy and adjust them as necessary.
Yes it seems a good option but not used for example to know what types of data to be inserted in the properties as I said .. . Copy is always useful to play but when we encounter a new problem then just having the data to resolve.
Thanks
Shadows are made from the other rotations, so it is no suprise a 3D S3D can have no shadows:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg855.imageshack.us%2Fimg855%2F6724%2Fshadowissue.jpg&hash=6e5d8d34179f75974b09486e8b8521f12817b52c)
This was me trying to be fancy ::). Got my own type of shadow issue.
I just looked into the two animated state fair props (something I had never considered before). The ferris wheel (IID: 0x29880005) does not cast a shadow, but it does have the "is Ground Model" property set to false. The tilt-o-whirl (IID: 0x298E0000) doesn't seem to cast a shadow either, but it's hard to tell on the lot, it may be covered up. It does not have the "is Ground Model" property at all (which defaults to true, I think).
However, I did make one discovery: These two props have a kSC4BuildingModelClassProperty value of 0xEA123BE1 rather than the 0xAA123BF9 used with ATC props. That may or may not make a difference.
Edit: I tried it out on my animated RR props. It doesn't seem to make a difference either way, but I'll stick with 0xEA123BE1 from now on since there is a Maxis precedent.
Quote from: jondor on February 28, 2012, 03:40:31 PM
Edit: I tried it out on my animated RR props. It doesn't seem to make a difference either way, but I'll stick with 0xEA123BE1 from now on since there is a Maxis precedent.
Maxis uses two values:
0xEA123BE1, and
0xAA123BF9The Maxis RR crossings: "ARR16x2x16_CrossingArms_2AD5" and "ARR16x2x16_CrossingArmsdiagonal_2AD6" have this:
0x00000000,0xAA123BF9,0x00000001,0xAA123BF9,0x00000002,0x00000000,0x00000003,0xAA123BF9
Looks like a "model state" type of property. Hmm, perhaps rotations?
Perhaps it's better to stick with what you had?
I found some fragments of what appears to be a data table for insertion into properties, but as it contained no rep clarifies this issue we'll try it another way then.
As we can see in the picture below are 358 exemplares_ that make call to Buldingmodelclass property all related the animations. (Dat-1)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r2JlKo2GaO4/T1AoqxyAdOI/AAAAAAAABS4/2M7aduySv88/s640/buldingmodelclass2.jpg)
There are only two keys to this property.
The key 0xEA123BE1 I see always appears with full geometry animations S3D. as the other key 0xAA123BF9 appears only animated textures by ATC / avp even when referenced S3Ds animated.
The property itself has only effect in the game to the editor batch it makes no difference since the models are animated anyway. But when it changes its value in exemplares_RKT4 things happen as the prop vanishing or the brown box in the game.
How are reps for mullti states logically should only affect the prop in its current state but mistakes happen even if the key is changed to another state.
Therefore there must be relations between the operation of the property in SC4 but found nothing in the FileType Relations wiki so if anyone has other information will be very welcome.
EDIT:: Relationships Wiki.
Property Exemplar name of gid 0xc977c536 calls an effect by string S3D, name, the effect name in the REGP section of an S3d May spawn an effect by directory name in the Effdir LUA, , fx, the fx command allows to reference an effect inside the effect dir from an LUA
0xC977C536 - Exemplar - Props - Lods and Effects Children Parent - Props Children Parent
Quote from: Lowkee33 on February 28, 2012, 03:08:52 PM
Shadows are made from the other rotations, so it is no suprise a 3D S3D can have no shadows:
This was me trying to be fancy ::). Got my own type of shadow issue.
As always we have a lot of hidden information about different topics.
I do not know if it helps but it is posted by someone who understands the subject.
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=52.msg226919#msg226919 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=52.msg226919#msg226919)