Hey guys,
I was making my island seaport earlier today and i noticed one problem: the lack of a raiseable bridge. Since my seaport ran parrellel to the main island i would have to raise enough terrain both sides to make a bridge high enough for ships to pass so to speak. It then occurred to me that noone has BATTed a raiseable bridge. Correct me if I am wrong on that but I would like to see if anyone is up to the challenge of BATting a raiseable bridge if it is possible. If it is not possible then i ask for the thread to be deleted but I just wanted to through this in here.
Thanks for your time guys :thumbsup:
It would be feasible. If you mean fake raiseable bridges like some ones which are available for some canal sets... ;)
Really working raiseable bridges ... not sure.... Swamper77, are you there perhaps...?¿, how do the traffic lights work ?¿
Maybe, I repeat, maybe, something could be done using RKT4 props, and T21 exemplars with working traffic lights.... just an idea... ::)
ooh we talking animated props here..... yeah and how exactly do the traffic lights work???
Even better--bridges with side spans, that 'raise' the bridge up to a suitable height. :thumbsup:
An animated bridge model could be done. However, the bridge height for the raising section would be fixed as if it was a fixed bridge. It may be possible to define that section with a different height so that ships can pass even if the deck is down (for UDI and commuter purposes).
Stoplights are controlled by stop points in SC4Path files and a time setting in the Automata Tuning Exemplar (TGI: 0x6534284A 0xA998D30B 0x00000001). The default Go Times are:
Road: 6 seconds for each cycle of the signals
Avenue: 8 seconds for each cycle of the signals
Street: 1.2 seconds between sets of vehicles stopping,
0.75 seconds for stopping at a stop sign
I don't think the bridge can be set to match work with these timings though. So you would probably have traffic stopping for no reason and/or traffic going over an opened bridge in mid air. :D
Trains only stop long enough for a passing/oncoming train to clear a junction or switch and then they move again. This only occurs at switches/junctions and probably won't work for dealing with a train that is a few tiles away, even if the junction takes up several tiles. The limit seems to be 2 tiles, which is the amount of space that junctions take up.
However, Elevated Rail/GLR and Monorail trains stop at the ends of transit enabled lots for some unknown reason, even if it is not a station. A possible solution for a raising rail bridge could have two transit-enabled lots with paths at a fixed height above the water line, one at each end of the opening span. Some testing will have to be done to figure out if bridges can be drawn between two transit-enabled lots, but I don't have the time for it right now..... :(
-Swamper77
Thanks for the info Swamper :thumbsup:
Ok, so fake raiseable bridges would be possible, but not real ones ::) Better that than nothing ;)
After reading your post, I dont know if a bridge can be drawn between two TE lots, but I dont see why not. What I can confirm you is that it will work between two puzzle pieces ( demonstrated with the TsingMa DoubleDecker bridge).
interesting findings guys im surprised Alex hasnt stopped by to say hello :P
jeronij: if you do decide to work on one i look forward to your creation...i love your tsing ma bridge and wish u could enable its double decker feature. &mmm
Quote from: Filasimo on June 03, 2007, 02:06:01 AM
jeronij: if you do decide to work on one i look forward to your creation...i love your tsing ma bridge and wish u could enable its double decker feature. &mmm
In fact the feature can be enabled. And works. The problem is that it causes traffic congestion, and to avoid this you have to manually edit one of the transit exemplars. But the connector puzzle pieces do exist, and work ( even they are outdated after the last NAM release), and the project is not dead. Simply frozen.
I agree that some moveable bridges would enhance the game. I posted some suggestions in another thread on this topic including some links to sites with pictures.
Quote from: stewart_garden on May 13, 2007, 04:55:59 AM
3) Movable bridges:
I realise that (to the best of my limited knowledge of game mechanics) it isn't possible to make bridges that actually move (save for Peg's lot-based set). However, when placing low-level bridges across a river in the centre of a city the in-game (and NAM) bridges can look like they wouldn't allow passage of river traffic. Cities like Chicago have a number of these bridges, and my thinking is that it would be nice to have bridges that look like they can open for river traffic even if they can't. This type of bridge would also be extremely useful for entrances to harbours etc.
This website (link (http://www.historicbridges.org/b_c_il_cook.htm)) has an extensive summary of bridges in Chicago.
This New York government document (link (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/pdf/harlemrvbdrpt.pdf)) has a summary of bridges on the Harlem river, and the Wikipedia article (link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crossings_of_the_Harlem_River)) also has some information.
My personal opinion is that I wouldn't mind if they weren't animated, I would be happy if they just
looked like they could raise and lower.
Stewart
I really like this idea and would love a bridge like this. :thumbsup:
Also, I have another question along the same lines. Is it possible to create a bridge that starts at one level (low sea level) and ends at a higher level (passable for ships). I hope that makes some sense.
See, I wanted to create three bridges in a line with the middle one able for ships to pass under. Each bridge would be connected to a piece of land. I did think about making the land in between raise but I want to make it as small as possible to appear as if it were all one bridge.
Any thoughts?
Robin &mmm
here's an interesting idea i just thought of, wouldnt it be possible to create the movable bridge as a starter piece and have capacity stats as a result or something along that line?
-rooker (robin)
If I understand your question correctly, you seem to want a flat stretch of bridge, have it increase in height in the middle, and lower again to the water level for the rest (something similar to the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway in Louisiana (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://nosheep.net/wp-content/upload/Lake_Pontchartrain_Causeway-vi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://nosheep.net/story/worlds-tallest-bridges/&h=332&w=500&sz=27&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=Ua3iTPShxi-CbM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbridges%2Blake%2Bpontchartrain%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den). If this is the case, make 2 small islands where you want the raised part of the bridge to fit and stretch a 'raised road' bridge between the two islands and whatever type of bridge you wish for the rest of the spans. If you are using avenues/highways, use one way road bridges to achieve that same effect. The islands will be visible, but I would recommend hiding them with a seawall set or something (I would recommend jeronij's breakwater set). Also, I believe Hableurg was working on a bridge similar to what you described, but I don't know how far along it is. He has a thread for it in this forum I think. Hope this helps.
well surely you could just have the entire raised piece as the centre section, if thats doable....
Quote from: Filasimo on June 01, 2007, 03:12:43 PM
Hey guys,
I was making my island seaport earlier today and i noticed one problem: the lack of a raiseable bridge. Since my seaport ran parrellel to the main island i would have to raise enough terrain both sides to make a bridge high enough for ships to pass so to speak. It then occurred to me that noone has BATTed a raiseable bridge. Correct me if I am wrong on that but I would like to see if anyone is up to the challenge of BATting a raiseable bridge if it is possible. If it is not possible then i ask for the thread to be deleted but I just wanted to through this in here.
Thanks for your time guys :thumbsup:
I have the fix,But you'll need bridge hight mod.
Step 1,make two 3x3 Islands in middle of the channel
step 2,Drag two oneway 'Plain[NAM]' bridges to the islands.
step 3, Use the 'raised' oneway bridges, and you should have this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr9%2Fthegunkid%2FChanelbridgesE.I.jpg&hash=def6df01aeb49c099087735e9acc76dcbfec5d93)
That should hold you untill someone makes that bridge.
Nice tip ;) . Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
I think a bridge that looks like a drawbridge/raising bridge but didnt function would still be very awesome
I don't see why it would have to function anyways, because except for ferries and the occasional maxis ship(which I never see because I don't use those crappy maxis seaports) there is no moving sea traffic that would necessitate that function. Personally I think it would be fantastic for short waterways and rivers,where you might have a few plopped somy ships but no ferries because there is no reason for them .
After placing the bridge like that, could you then go into SC4 Terraformer, and remove the islands?
-Charlie
Charlie if you look closly you can see the road actualy reappears so there would be no way to remove the islands at all...
I've got a Challenge, but this may resurrect the Double-Deck Bridge Experiment ;). NAM has Dual Networking Puzzle Pieces (Underground Rail Dual Networking, Elevated Rail Dual Networking, and GLR in the center of the Avenue), so everybody already has the required pieces....right? I'm asking to make bridges for these, plz.
So why can't it be done?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg211.imageshack.us%2Fimg211%2F6364%2Fnewcitynov2600118784397el1.jpg&hash=b75b9d240cd03390c72ceec61db908367be6bd07)
Just needs a lot to sit in between and make look more complete.
-Charlie
those are some good ideas guys but when u have an area in the seaport where its not wide enough for raised bridges im curious to see what u guys can come up with :thumbsup:
Why not a bridge in which the the middle piece, or the raisable piece has traffic set so that it rides below the sea floor, making it "non-existent," and have a seasonal prop that raises and lowers, or animated I guess. Then have car props that show up when the bridge is raised and gone when it's lowered. The only problem is what would happen when the bridge is closed? It would be like the cars were traveling on an interdimensional bridge. lol Okay nerdy.
-Charlie
we can control the distance between centre sections right as well as the minimm span for them to occur. well cant we just make the minimum span like 200m and the distance between like 4km, make the raised bit as one long centre section. so you have low level cuaseway effectively and then the bridge...
Either that or you could basically just make the LODs cover the road deck completely for the raised version, so cars ain't visible &mmm
Quote from: willvette on August 21, 2007, 02:35:36 PM
I've got a Challenge, but this may resurrect the Double-Deck Bridge Experiment ;). GLR in the center of the Avenue), so everybody already has the required pieces....right? I'm asking to make bridges for these, plz.
Avenue+GLR Bridge? :satisfied:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr9%2Fthegunkid%2FCable_Stayed_3.jpg&hash=a0461de760ebf4d2c0e5f455b516257babb765a3)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr9%2Fthegunkid%2FCable_Stayed_4.png&hash=a8119eaed39b7d2cb10b41c7bfc99c31b8b1afe3)
You like?
i think your right hand bridge on the top photo is brilliant...
Quote from: mightygoose on August 23, 2007, 08:00:51 AM
i think your right hand bridge on the top photo is brilliant...
It's the same one as pic #2
I am a bit short of time, and I cant support these threads as often as I would :'( ¡¡¡
But I finally found some time to reply:
DD Bridges:
The main unsolved problem with these is the traffic congestions they create, even if the traffic density is really low. Actually, some NAM core files must be manually edited for them to work, so dont expect much progress with them unless a solution for this problem is found &mmm .
TGK, your design is really clever and I like it, but a quite looooooong start piece would be needed to give the bridge a credible shape. Remember that the GLR starts on the ground level, and it has to climb to ... how many... 15 meters ?¿. At least a three tiles long start piece would be needed. Also aditional connector puzzle pieces should be done to make this beauty work... I cant see a DD bridge working in the near future.... ()sad()
Raised bridges:
As in RL, these bridges should be short, and this is a problem when it comes to design something like that. The key would be the start, end piece. These pieces should be seasonal props, which are lowered or raised. These pieces could be up to 5 tiles long ( 80 meters which is quite unrealistic imo). And their lenght sets the bridge lenght (2x5 tiles). We could add another seasonal prop for the repeat piece, which simply dissapears when the bridge is raised. This would give some more flexibility, up to 12 or 13 tiles total. Whatever bridge that exceeds these dimensions would look odd and unrealistic. There is no way to set the maximum lenght for a bridge actually, so the player should place such a bridge very carefully. I cant see any use for the center pieces (pylons) for such a short bridge.
I'd also like to announce that shortly I will have more help with this thread, and hopefully we will finally make some working bridges ::) .
COOL!!!!!! :thumbsup: I was having the same idea about the GLR and Avenue, except I was thinking GLR going below the Avenue, but no problem. Also I'm making a Double-Decker (road over rail) based on the bering strait bridge (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7505282858608728277&q=extreme+engineering&total=214&start=0&num=50&so=0&type=search&plindex=4) (extreme engineering) I have it set so that the rail is 14m below the road, plz tell me if this incorrect. (note: I'm using sketch-up pro)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F7554%2Fberingstraitbridgeve0.th.jpg&hash=c018b003af1a262d0bd66ddc61526507edb94b40) (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beringstraitbridgeve0.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg300.imageshack.us%2Fimg300%2F5919%2Fberingstraitbridge2lh2.th.jpg&hash=d8a2a0911e663595c759792219f115b53882bb6c) (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beringstraitbridge2lh2.jpg)
I'm not vary good at texturing in the BAT, so if anyone wants to texture it, tell me. Also, jeronij I'm make this bridge Double-Decker compatible, for now its a road bridge, but if DDBs are possible than its a DDB
!!!! DISAPPOINTMENT ALERT !!!!
Unfortunately, using sketchup seems to be a no-no for BATting, I can use sketchup just fine, but I dislike other 3D modellers, so I thought I would take a shot at importing my sketchup BATs into the real BAT, but the BAT just had a kick-off and spat out a load of junk at me. It seems to be something to do with the way that Sketchup creates the models, but it is actually completely impossible at the moment to import sketchup models into the BAT to texture. The problem arises because, even if the model is properly made, with separate components for each object, sketchup converts the whole model into a single mesh when it converts from .skp to .3ds
Sorry to disappoint you, I hope you can model in GMax, 'cos that's one mighty fine lookin' bridge right thar. :D
Fred
;D Funny, I've got mine working just fine...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F7774%2Fberingstraitbridge2spzl9.th.jpg&hash=00cdc963a1d3960d4d6daee831270d198ccb44c4) (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beringstraitbridge2spzl9.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg111.imageshack.us%2Fimg111%2F3531%2Fberingstraitbridge2spexor1.th.jpg&hash=950be0379447ee127d8a4a30ec97664e50e7374d) (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beringstraitbridge2spexor1.jpg)
&Thk/( if only I had more concrete textures, a in game road and rail texture, and a dark steal texture.
notes:
1- I use a duel-screen when I'm at home.
2- FiSHMan does not work for me, can someone plz up-load in game road textures w/ sidewalks
willvette: I don't know the program you are using so I don't know what format textures need to be in, but if you look at the end of the first post of jeronij's bridge tutorial, he provides the game road files at the bottom. Good luck.
threestooges, I already have that, I'm look for roads with sidewalks and rail with dert. jeronij's road and rail textures are clear. >:(
Nevermind, I've found what I was looking for, here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results)
Hello to all,
wilvette, I like the bridge design. Actually it will have to be a SD road bridge. I have to check the height of the rail in the puzzle pieces, but since the road deck is at 15 meter, the rail should probably be 3 or four meters lower. I have to check that. However, this week I have almost no time for these matters, due to RL. Send me a PM if you dont see a new reply here in the next few days ;)
About the model itself, it should be made into 3 pieces, as short as possible. I can see a problem with the column piece, well, with the suspension wires and the anchor pieces for them, These anchors are a few tiles far from the column, and since they are BATted and not added by the game, this make the center piece be around 1x11 tiles long. We can not mod a bridge like that actually with our knowledge &mmm. Please, try to make the bridge pieces as short as possible. 1x1 or 1x2 maximum. The suspension cables and the anchors could be BATted with the column piece, making it an overhanging prop, but this must be carefully done, if we want to avoid graphic glitches once in the game ;D
About the sidewalks or dirt, you can easily create a plane and apply a texture for it ::) .
This is looking good, but is anyone working on the Drawbridge/Raising bridge project yet?
Hey everyone I left some pictures of me driveing on the causeway from the Tollplaza in Near Manderville too the causeway express and the GEO Bridge. Westbank area. I notice the bridge issues and stuff. I am from Louisiana so I decided too show you some pretty cool bridges. Maybe if anyone like the birdges , maybe someone might design them. By the way I love SC4
MOD EDIT: You haven't actually posted any pictures, you pressed the img button plenty of times, but didn't actually put any URLs in take a look here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=938.0) and here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4077.0) for info on how to do it. - Fred
I would like to report something about my old method of making double deck bridges.
As other people in this thread have said, the problem with my method was that it caused the bridges to become congested, even at low traffic levels.
This is true for rail and elevated rail, but not monorail; I found that a highway bridge that also carried monorail did not become congested. I assume that this is because the monorail network cannot become congested. I did not test high traffic volumes, so I still do not know if this is a viable solution.
On the subject of having a raised section in the middle of a level bridge, this is perfectly possible, as is a single bridge with steel arch and suspension sections. To do this one needs to define a special bridge RUL. In this RUL one specifies, separately for each possible bridge length, the model to be placed on each bridge tile. It is also possible to adjust the relative height of the model on each bridge tile.
The main encounter is capactiy issues. Also the no islands may be possible. Maybe put some pillars and make a lot that you plop in the water that maybe it hides the base ground. Or one that maybe blends in with the water by using transparency. The ground is still there but very "clear". &apls "$Deal"$ :bomb:
Hey, I like the idea of a lift bridge for SC4, I've got a good video that might help someone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmO_HGMlb4c
To make a realistic(ish) GLR in avenue bridge use draggable GLR and have 2 one way road bridges eithier side in opposite directions
You can't place bridges side by side, which is part of the problem with your suggestion. The game requires 1 tile of space between all bridges.
-Swamper
will some mod or anything can slove the side by side bridge problem?
i dont think so. i think its the same type of problem that prevents puzzle pieces from being beside a TE lot.