SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

German games sites are reporting that Maxis is currently working on a new "real" Sim City Game.
They say that Will Wright is not involved and the release is planned for 2013.
The new game is supposed to feature "glassbox graphics engine", upgradeable civic building, curved roads, newspaper "SimCity Wire", Multiplayer (featuring finances and ressources), and complex gameplay.

These rumours seem to originate in an exclusive preview in a german games magazine (Gamestar).

i hope that the new simcity could be combined new " The sims" game.

I'll not be so sure about it. Seeing more of these "claims" of a new SimCity that faded away, I'm pretty skeptical right now...

We'll see.


David

Actually, SC4 is good enough with so many BATs and MODs, the work by many makers  :thumbsup:

QuoteThey say that Will Wright is not involved

If so, you can almost say is not a "real" Sim City  :thumbsdown:

I'm curious, I read a few rumours about it as well. I really hope EA won't make it Origin-exclusive though.

Quote from: mrtnrln on February 28, 2012, 02:15:52 AM
I'll not be so sure about it. Seeing more of these "claims" of a new SimCity that faded away, I'm pretty skeptical right now...

Me, too. I'll try to get a copy of the magazine later. Gamestar has a good reputation, though.
They say, that details will be revealed at the Game Developers Conference. Usually you don't announce cheap Facebook games there.

Quote from: WC_EEND on February 28, 2012, 04:55:31 AM
I'm curious, I read a few rumours about it as well. I really hope EA won't make it Origin-exclusive though.

If it is true that there will be a Multiplayer mode, then I am 100% sure that it will come with Origin.  &sly

What I've heard is that yes.. its "new" sim city game... but only for the consoles.. and is actually a upgraded port of the original sim city. We'll see indeed.

Let's hope it's similar to SC4 but with full 3D graphics and is easier to mod :)

Quote from: io_bg on February 28, 2012, 08:05:31 AM
Let's hope it's similar to SC4 but with full 3D graphics and is easier to mod :)

If you want something similiar to SC4 and easy to mod then take a look at my signature link, as for a new SimCity lets hope and also pray it doesn't look like this;

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/simcity-deluxe/id380017992?mt=8

Well, I don't realy need a new sim city. I'm pleased with SC4.
I think that we can play for many years with all the mods and stuff that's on this an other sites.

And my PC already has problems with running SC4 with all my plugs. Can't imagine how it would with a full 3d game ???

Every time they talk on this subject a few minor details are forgotten. No game company online or distributed will risk the immediate market today with something for a specific niche

All games are developed in today's advanced graphics engine to satisfy the yearning for realistic movement used in their scripts.

Bring a new engine to the game to do these same things in Simcity would dismiss all the work of this great community that supports it and without which the game would have been long forgotten.

So I can bet that what comes out there is even something along the lines of post catty. More a toy online to collect from the sale of these items and things we know.

Unless of course we all in this community may commit to purchase a copy of a new release with more features and bugs solved ... still would not think much of some twenty thousand ... want to see the folks at EA giving a lot of laughs ... just propose it to them.

The source of this rumor seems a bit implausible to me.  The true origins seem to be a couple of smaller European sites dealing with The Sims.  I don't know how much stock to put into that, as there's not much of a connection to EA/Maxis.  I would have expected a larger outlet to break it if it were legitimate.

That said, I made this remark in a post at ST about 2 years ago (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/35423-the-end-of-planet-offer/page__st__270), when Cities XL's Planet Offer was being discontinued:

Quote from: Tarkus
With regards to the specs end of things, in order to reliably pull it off a full-3D SC4-type experience and get enough market, the "low-end" of the systems market will most likely need to have quad-core or even hex-core processors, 8GB of RAM and 2GB of graphics memory. This will likely happen by 2013 or so, +/- 1 year.

Those specs are roughly based off of Paul Pedriana's own estimations from back in 2003.  My estimation of the timing of that kind of hardware becoming commonplace seems to be eerily accurate.  AMD and Intel have had hex-cores out for close to 2 years now, and they're becoming more common.  Quad-cores are being put into laptops.  4GB RAM is an incredibly common spec now, and 8GB is becoming more so, especially since 64-bit OSes that can actually address all that RAM are now commonplace.  Graphics cards are now getting bigger and faster as well. 

I'd say this is still hearsay at this point, but unlike all the misguided folks who actually thought back in 2007 that SC:S was going to be SC5, or that Cities XL was going to be the future back in 2009, there's actually validity to the notion that EA is, at the very least, considering a next-generation city-simulator.  Things like the Herman Cain 9-9-9 promotion and the scaled-down iPad port seem to be signs of "testing the water", to see if there's still interest in the genre.

-Alex

The sad thing is hex-cores are still for the extreme users and servers (where octo cores + are appearing now)... and there is no change on the horizon for the next year +... haswell will be still be quad core when it comes out next year.

Quote...scaled-down iPad port...

LMAO!!

That port's not just scaled down, it's...it's... castrated.  It's like playing SimCity 4 as envisioned by folks who'd spent the last 20+ years playing nothing but the original game.

Oh my God, it is that awful.  I wanted my money back within about 10 seconds after it appeared on my iPad's screen.


David

Unless someone can redo the road/highway system, and superior traffic system, the now obsolete Pixel Active did with Cityscape before Navteq happened to it, which I seriously doubt. I would have to see this new SC game to believe it. Cityscape, allowed you to change the textures of the roads, within the program to anything you want, and let you adjust if that road had traffic signals (with working turn arrows) or stop signs, with the ability to have direction restrictions, and not to mention, change the width of a network, alter between shoulders, and sidewalks. The speed limit could also be adjusted for certain parts of the road. Signs, buildings, plants and stuff, could be placed down like that, and you could take any model like .dae .obj .3DS and place it in the game like that. You could also drive vehicles in first person. For those lucky enough to have lived through something like that, while I would like to see that happen again, I remain skeptical of any SC ever accomplishing anything like that. Of course Cityscape, and other stuff I used, rang up  prices of 600 USD to 10 grand, because "simulation tech demos" were not considered a game.

Quote from: j-dub on February 28, 2012, 08:48:20 PM
...Cityscape, allowed you to change the textures of the roads, within the program to anything you want, and let you adjust if that road had traffic signals (with working turn arrows) or stop signs, with the ability to have direction restrictions, and not to mention, change the width of a network, alter between shoulders, and sidewalks...

Want a total of eight lanes of traffic ... no problem

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7205%2F6794244086_ca42411457_o.jpg&hash=25ea2048cbee202ea54bb61187e597d0755f765e) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26230041@N06/6794244086/)
FEB120110 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26230041@N06/6794244086/) by SC4D_CATTY (http://www.flickr.com/people/26230041@N06/), on Flickr

its a source of great regret that I was never able to persuade them to let me release the demo program to SC4D players   :(

Quote from: Kitsune on February 28, 2012, 04:52:30 PM
The sad thing is hex-cores are still for the extreme users and servers (where octo cores + are appearing now)... and there is no change on the horizon for the next year +... haswell will be still be quad core when it comes out next year.

I just checked a couple local (non-chain) computer hardware stores' prices out.  I can walk in and pick up an octo-core AMD FX-8120 for $222.  Of course, I also happen to be in an area that has a lot of extreme users, so there's enough volume that the price is down.

Quote from: j-dub on February 28, 2012, 08:48:20 PM
Unless someone can redo the road/highway system, and superior traffic system, the now obsolete Pixel Active did with Cityscape before Navteq happened to it, which I seriously doubt. I would have to see this new SC game to believe it.

When I saw what PixelActive was doing with CityScape, I figured it was only a matter of time before someone bought them out.  I just expected their buyer to be a game company rather than Navteq, given their existing clients.  It was a sweet program.

Quote from: catty on February 28, 2012, 10:08:21 PM
its a source of great regret that I was never able to persuade them to let me release the demo program to SC4D players   :(

It really is--but I think everyone here appreciates your efforts on that front. :thumbsup:

Quote from: dedgren on February 28, 2012, 06:52:38 PM
Oh my God, it is that awful.  I wanted my money back within about 10 seconds after it appeared on my iPad's screen.

At least it was about a sixth of the price of the dreck Monte Cristo was putting out.  I still remember my very brief "morbid curiosity" time with the original CXL demo with extreme horror.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg246.imageshack.us%2Fimg246%2F112%2Fcxldemo4.jpg&hash=208b3daf9895b3252cfc48b2dc9aa9aa6830543f)

That right there is the proof that 2009 was not the right time for a next-generation city-simulator.

-Alex

Quote from: dedgren on February 28, 2012, 06:52:38 PM

Quote...scaled-down iPad port...

That port's not just scaled down, it's...it's... castrated.  It's like playing SimCity 4 as envisioned by folks who'd spent the last 20+ years playing nothing but the original game.

Oh my God, it is that awful.  I wanted my money back within about 10 seconds after it appeared on my iPad's screen.


David

That doesn't even look like SC4, that looks like a SC3K port with re-rendered SC4 assets, the view angle is wrong, the ground looks typically SC3K, the construction animations are the same as in 3K, there are SC3K buildings in the tileset and notice how all the inhabited areas of the cities are perfectly flat.

At least it's clear that EA still has all the original SC4 assets locked away.

Quote from: Tarkus on February 28, 2012, 10:23:56 PM

Quote from: Kitsune on February 28, 2012, 04:52:30 PM
The sad thing is hex-cores are still for the extreme users and servers (where octo cores + are appearing now)... and there is no change on the horizon for the next year +... haswell will be still be quad core when it comes out next year.

I just checked a couple local (non-chain) computer hardware stores' prices out.  I can walk in and pick up an octo-core AMD FX-8120 for $222.  Of course, I also happen to be in an area that has a lot of extreme users, so there's enough volume that the price is down.

It wasn't particularly expensive for me to pick up a hex-core processor (was a Phenom II though)... below $200. That puts it well within the reach of the average enthusiast.

That being said, this hypothetical SC5 would be optimised for quad-core, but still could run on a dual-core system, most likely, though with degraded performance.

And the funny thing is, the specs you posted, Alex, almost exactly match mine. :D


But realistically, I would say that EA have a good chance of getting a decent simulator out (if they would try)... if they optimise it ruthlessly.

By that, I mean, the following stats would be recommended:
Dual-core processor with multi-threading (so basically 4 threads)
Graphics card that supports SM4.0/DX10 and has 1GB discrete memory
4GB RAM
10GB hard drive space... minimum (on par with a lot of games released in the past year or so)




Wishful thinking?

Maybe. But they do have the resources out there to pull it off.

Why something tells me that we'll get not Simcity 5... but a Simcity Societies 2 for Facebook? :D :D

Quote from: Tarkus on February 28, 2012, 10:23:56 PM

I just checked a couple local (non-chain) computer hardware stores' prices out.  I can walk in and pick up an octo-core AMD FX-8120 for $222.  Of course, I also happen to be in an area that has a lot of extreme users, so there's enough volume that the price is down.

At the risk of going offtopic: The AMD FX-8120 is no real octocore, it uses something called "modules" (each modules being 2 "cores", each with shared L3 Cache). Couple that to the fact that it performs at roughly the same level as the i5-2500K and is no real competition for anything above that (2600K/2700K and LGA 2011 CPUs). In some aspects it even performs worse than the old 6-core Phenom 2.

http://rinconsimmer.jimdo.com/2012/02/27/simcity-2013-reportaje-de-gamestar-7-im%C3%A1genes/
Has "screenshots" (looks more like concept art, but still) along with an article in Spanish.

Quote from: XiahouDun on February 29, 2012, 09:12:35 AM
http://rinconsimmer.jimdo.com/2012/02/27/simcity-2013-reportaje-de-gamestar-7-im%C3%A1genes/
Has "screenshots" (looks more like concept art, but still) along with an article in Spanish.

Thanks. I think those are the same pics that are in the german magazine. They say it is concept art, not actual screenshots.
But this website is also listing this magazine as a source. As far as I know there is still no other confirmation of these rumors.

Quote from: NCGAIO on February 28, 2012, 03:25:24 PM
Every time they talk on this subject a few minor details are forgotten. No game company online or distributed will risk the immediate market today with something for a specific niche

thanks to online salesmethodes what is a niche may easily represent a couple 100k if not a million+ sales. the physical spread of the niche (i.e. us living all over the place) doesn't matter since you don't have to ship DVD-boxes around the place to shops. One webadres and photons do the rest.

Quote from: WC_EEND on February 29, 2012, 02:20:42 AM
Couple that to the fact that it performs at roughly the same level as the i5-2500K and is no real competition for anything above that (2600K/2700K and LGA 2011 CPUs). In some aspects it even performs worse than the old 6-core Phenom 2.

That's kind of what I had heard.  I'm curious to see if modular processing catches on, though.  It seems like there could be some benefits to it once they get the performance kinks worked out.

Honestly, I'm still rather skeptical about the pics.  Why would a German gaming magazine be the place where this news is broken?  I did actually check out some of the names mentioned in the article--Lucy Bradshaw and Stone Librande are real EA employees.  Bradshaw is a Senior Vice Predient and Librande is an Art Director.

The pics are somewhat believable for a game in an early stage of development.  It kind of looks a bit like SC4 did when it was first announced.  But I won't officially take this report as a real thing until there's an official announcement from EA.

Edit: From the article (in automated translation, so it's a bit rough grammatically): In these pages you will find images, but are concepts of art.  Why Maxis prevents Glassbox show the new engine? The reason: The current video quality does not meet the requirements of internal – and there is open play as full a level of development. The graphics are polished only towards the end of a high quality development.

So these are indeed just artist renderings.

-Alex

It does look a lot like SC4 concept art, though.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamerstemple.net%2Fgames%2F000350%2F000350s03.jpg&hash=b9f42ac7eb9aa892999cf967f344d966c5878f15)

I get the feeling Glassbox could be a hybrid made up of many other engines that EA uses (Frostbite and the TS3 engine for instance)...

ugh... sc5 if its indeed announced next week better do away with the outdated grid.. and go civ5 style with a hex-grid. And also... i7 quads still beat the amd hex's.

Quote from: Kitsune on February 29, 2012, 07:13:36 PM
And also... i7 quads still beat the amd hex's.

Well, yeah, they do, but how much more do you have to pay to get an i7 quad-core?

Intel = overpriced.  The Sandy Bridge-E series processors are up in the $600-1200 range.  You get more bang for your buck with Phenom II.  But I'll admit, I'm an AMD fanboy.

-Alex

Look at these:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219684p1.html (http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219684p1.html)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464903 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464903)

While I'm skeptical, this may in fact be the real deal. 10 years after SC4 was released, a worthy sequel may be out.

You know SC4 is a good game when it takes 10 years to find a successor. I'll have my eye on this development, much like everyone else.

Quote from: Tarkus on February 29, 2012, 09:30:02 PM
Intel = overpriced.  The Sandy Bridge-E series processors are up in the $600-1200 range.  You get more bang for your buck with Phenom II.  But I'll admit, I'm an AMD fanboy.

-Alex

The Phenom II x6 can only fairly compete with the i5 2400 to 2500 (They haven't got unlocked multipliers, so they can't compete with the K Series CPUs). The E Series are priced higher because they have no competition in the consumer market.

While the i7 may be a mainstay in Laptops, in Desktops (unless it's the 2600) they're purely for enthusiasts, those who must have the very best right now, a Market AMD only replies to with a sigh.

Concerning the specs the game may require, remember how good of a computer SC4 required in 2003 to get the game to run at a decent setting.

I'm sure anyone who is genuinely interested in this game is willing to shell out the big bucks to get a PC rig capable of running 'SC5' at medium graphics. My 2010-era PC was great at the time I got it and I'd still consider it good for 2013 (12GB RAM, i7 950, GTX 470). I doubt hex-core PCs will be needed, but they would certainly be a big plus as the game will sure suck a lot of processing power. And of course, the more RAM you have, the better, and it's extremely cheap these days.

If you have a graphics card that can be SLIed (twinned), I think adding a second card will do enough justice to run this game well, as long as your motherboard and power supply can handle it! :P

^I'd say those specs would have no problem handling it. 

My current laptop (an AMD Athlon X2 with 4GB RAM) will probably be on the low-end of the specs.  My last laptop (which was only slightly worse) ran like it was dragging a hunk of osmium when trying to run the CXL demo, though.

-Alex

im going to buy a completely new PC to run this game when it comes out.  ;D

i had some vibes in October last year something is in the works. (SA, drunkapple, thingfsh and marsh can back this up). there has been some 'hints' floating around the net.

my wife is going to kill me. she hated SC4, she is going to really hate SC5 ;D

having built a PC around the i7-2600K and a GTX560Ti (2GB version), I think I should be good for a while though. If necessary I could just get a newer GPU once Kepler comes out.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 01, 2012, 12:20:06 PM
having built a PC around the i7-2600K and a GTX560Ti (2GB version), I think I should be good for a while though. If necessary I could just get a newer GPU once Kepler comes out.

which board do you have? got the same graphics (msi twinfrozr version) and plan on getting the same cpu...

so much for the off topic I can't help but asking  $%Grinno$%

as for the sc announcement... I am seriously hoping for what they promise, the next "real" sim city.
although I must say the last almost 10 years of griddyness with sc4 (plus the awesome user-created content and customization abilities) I fear there's just no chance to live up to this game, unless it's gonna be frakking epic, which I - tbh - doubt.

Quote from: GMT on March 01, 2012, 01:33:20 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 01, 2012, 12:20:06 PM
having built a PC around the i7-2600K and a GTX560Ti (2GB version), I think I should be good for a while though. If necessary I could just get a newer GPU once Kepler comes out.

which board do you have? got the same graphics (msi twinfrozr version) and plan on getting the same cpu...

so much for the off topic I can't help but asking  $%Grinno$%

as for the sc announcement... I am seriously hoping for what they promise, the next "real" sim city.
although I must say the last almost 10 years of griddyness with sc4 (plus the awesome user-created content and customization abilities) I fear there's just no chance to live up to this game, unless it's gonna be frakking epic, which I - tbh - doubt.

I have an Asus P8P67 Deluxe board, but honestly, you'd be better off waiting until Ivy Bridge comes out (April normally) and then grab an i7-3770K (or whatever it'll end up being called) and a Z77 board as well

These are supposed SC5 shots?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gamerant.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FSimCity-5-Screenshot-Car-Accident.jpg&hash=796a5450c1117af672075bbc83f0b17693cdbd81)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gamerant.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FSimCity-5-Screenshot-Stadium.jpg&hash=d0b1b01250a7054815270b69c58c99cc9e303ddc)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gamerant.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FSimCity-5-Screenshot-Future-City.jpg&hash=f910480f4cbecd11fb9715713cbf91a0191a1efe)

I'll believe it, when I see it. Although, the last picture, while it looks like SC4, the angle it was taken at, seems to be different.

They're not screenshots--just concept art.  Basically, someone drew some mockups of what the game could look like.  They are apparently still working on the graphical engine and aren't ready to show it off yet.  We'll know more when the GDC rolls around.

I'm a lot more convinced this is the real deal than I was 24 hours ago.

-Alex

Dont like them....look too "plastic". The great thing about SC4 is that despite it's grid, the places we build do look lived in and real imv. Those graphics above do nothing for me personally.

Quote from: wallasey on March 01, 2012, 04:19:58 PM

Dont like them....look too "plastic". The great thing about SC4 is that despite it's grid, the places we build do look lived in and real imv. Those graphics above do nothing for me personally.

Oh.... There's way more to look forward to this game than good graphics. Stability is the main thing I'm looking forward to.

I am absolutely sick and tired of Simcity 4 crashing, most of the time randomly, and seeing cities I have been working on for years become corrupted, unplayable files. Basic coding was a considerable flaw for SC4, and I'm hoping for drastic changes in Simcity 5.

I also hope the financial system is a little better to keep in balance. If you're playing SC4 out of the box it can be difficult to keep your budget balanced, especially during the first few years of your city.

Custom content-wise, I'm sure they'll study how well it worked for SC4 and ensure SC5 will have it. There may DLC (downloadable content) for a price, but sharing player-made creations should be free.

The rumour's suggest macro-economics are going to be introduced. That might get me finally playing with finances (as it is ... I dont use finances and start all cities with 1 billion). And if it indeed does come out in '13, it'll be nicely timed with my 4 year upgrade cycle, it'll be nice to retire my original 920 from late 08 and finally move on to ssd's. Shame ddr4 won't be out yet.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 01, 2012, 01:50:59 PM

Quote from: GMT on March 01, 2012, 01:33:20 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 01, 2012, 12:20:06 PM
having built a PC around the i7-2600K and a GTX560Ti (2GB version), I think I should be good for a while though. If necessary I could just get a newer GPU once Kepler comes out.

which board do you have? got the same graphics (msi twinfrozr version) and plan on getting the same cpu...

so much for the off topic I can't help but asking  $%Grinno$%

as for the sc announcement... I am seriously hoping for what they promise, the next "real" sim city.
although I must say the last almost 10 years of griddyness with sc4 (plus the awesome user-created content and customization abilities) I fear there's just no chance to live up to this game, unless it's gonna be frakking epic, which I - tbh - doubt.

I have an Asus P8P67 Deluxe board, but honestly, you'd be better off waiting until Ivy Bridge comes out (April normally) and then grab an i7-3770K (or whatever it'll end up being called) and a Z77 board as well

depends on the money. I'd sure like to get the new flagship into my pc, but I can't spend too much on this mission as I spent quite some cash on my car's performance already and now gotta balance. If the 330 bucks I read a couple days ago are in fact the retail price it's just at the limit together with a new board.

Quote from: GMT on March 02, 2012, 01:42:18 AM

depends on the money. I'd sure like to get the new flagship into my pc, but I can't spend too much on this mission as I spent quite some cash on my car's performance already and now gotta balance. If the 330 bucks I read a couple days ago are in fact the retail price it's just at the limit together with a new board.

I'd go for the Z77 board though regardless of wether you'll go with the 2600K or the 3770K. Those boards will likely have new features the current H61/H67/P67/Z68 boards don't have (PCIe3 springs to mind) and still take all LGA 1155 CPUs.

I remember seeing "concept" pictures of SC4 and they looked exactly the same as what was posted here.  And what came out in the game was better.

I remember one of those concept pictures, they had something that looked like a giant elevated Mave 4, of course, we all know they did not finish that. NAM did.

Quote from: Tarkus on March 01, 2012, 04:01:21 PMWe'll know more when the GDC rolls around.

From the GDC website:

Quote
Speaker/s: Ocean Quigley (EA), Andrew Willmott (EA) and Dan Moskowitz (EA)
Day / Time / Location: Wednesday 11:00-12:00 Room 3007, West Hall, 3rd Fl
Track / Duration / Format / Audience Level: Programming / 60-Minute / Sponsored
GDC Vault Recording: No Vault Recording
Description:

Join EA and one of their world class development studios as they give you a behind-the-scenes glimpse of the GlassBox Simulation Engine, the next-generation technology that is built from the ground up to power the next entry in one of their most beloved franchises.

The second picture J-Dub posted is particularly interesting to me.  There is a grid there, and I hope it stays because cities are much easier to plan when you do have a grid to work with.  I'm trying not to look to far into it, but that terrain does behave in the same way as SC4, note the way the beach texture interacts with the grass.

Edit: That's this Wednesday, btw.

I want to believe in this, but I think we will be disappointed, for nine years they haven't done a thing no updates, no patches and made money from the SC4 community efforts, and now that Cities XL is slowly is starting to improve (its not close to being a replacement for SC4 yet) but I think EA can see the writing on the walls ... and suddenly there is talk of an new simcity.

I think we will get SC4 in brand new 3D clothes, maybe a few fixes, stuff that was in development back in 2003 and that will be that ... and according to a translation someone has done from the germany site ... no custom content either.

-catty

That translation was from someone who deliberately omitted a few words--namely "Häuser aus Die Sims"--"houses from The Sims".  The actual sentence in question: "Das importieren eigener Häuser aus Die Sims wäre doch ein Geniestreich, um SimCity noch mehr Spielern schmackhaft zu machen?"

That translates roughly to: "The import of the player's own houses from The Sims would be a stroke of genius to make SimCity more palatable?"

-Alex

Quote from: Tarkus on March 02, 2012, 12:49:06 PM
...That translates roughly to: "The import of the player's own houses from The Sims would be a stroke of genius to make SimCity more palatable?"...

that sounds a lot better, but based on the wish lists people have been doing the last couple of days, I still think there will be a lot of disappointed people at either the announcement or in 2013

&mmm

I think as high as the expectations are for any new game in the city-simulator genre (especially one carrying the "SimCity" name), I have no doubt the most vocal members of the "we want SC5" crowd are going to be bellyaching even if they get more or less everything they want. 

Speaking from the custom content development end, there's only so much we can do.  We can't please everyone--we can only endeavor to please most people.  I'd imagine it's the same for EA/Maxis.  I don't think the bellyachers get that.

-Alex

I understand EA and Maxis won't be able to please everyone, but a semi-open platform (much like what SC4 is) should not be something that is unrealistic to want in my opinion.

EA wants to make money. Free custom content contradicts this. But I am sure there will be some form of modability but this will be very limited even compared to SC4.
I argue that EA abandoning SC4 after Rush Hour was the best thing that could  have happened for us hardcore fans. Imagine what would have happened if there were more addons. The NAM would never exist due to compatibility issues. What if EA had used the dirt road network in another addon?
Sure, EA could have made an addon adressing highways. But this would never have been remotely close to what the NAM achieved. Just look at the ridiculous Maxis buildings. EA does not have the passion / knowledge / dedication that we have.

Let's face it. We are not the target audience for SC5. They can't make enough money with us. If they wanted to make a game that pleases us die-hard fans, they would have contacted us already. Why is there no "community manager" posting here? Because EA does not care what we think because we do not matter to them.

This rant may seem angry and yes, part of me is angry indeed. But I am also realistic (or fatalistic?). Sim City belongs to EA and, objectively, I can't even blame them for trying to make the most profit with it. I just wish the world was different.

Quote from: RickD on March 02, 2012, 02:10:15 PM
EA wants to make money. Free custom content contradicts this. But I am sure there will be some form of modability but this will be very limited even compared to SC4.
I argue that EA abandoning SC4 after Rush Hour was the best thing that could  have happened for us hardcore fans. Imagine what would have happened if there were more addons. The NAM would never exist due to compatibility issues. What if EA had used the dirt road network in another addon?
Sure, EA could have made an addon adressing highways. But this would never have been remotely close to what the NAM achieved. Just look at the ridiculous Maxis buildings. EA does not have the passion / knowledge / dedication that we have.

Let's face it. We are not the target audience for SC5. They can't make enough money with us. If they wanted to make a game that pleases us die-hard fans, they would have contacted us already. Why is there no "community manager" posting here? Because EA does not care what we think because we do not matter to them.

This rant may seem angry and yes, part of me is angry indeed. But I am also realistic (or fatalistic?). Sim City belongs to EA and, objectively, I can't even blame them for trying to make the most profit with it. I just wish the world was different.

I remember when Command And Conquer Red Alert 2 came out, and at an unofficial fan site, which had some of the game developers on the site, they never posted much because it was exactly as Tarkus stated, they could please everyone and anytime one of them would post, they get a billion posts asking for something else.  They gave up posting. 

Why would anyone from Maxis post here, or at ST, or even Pegs site openly, considering how many act towards members of the NAM, RHW, RMTP, etc teams and bring up things that are not in high demand.  Not to long ago here, someone posted in several NAM threads for something, when shot down from members of that team, they started an unofficial poll to try and get them to change their minds. It crossed a thin line that exists on this site.  I, and hundreds of others understand that these things take time to develop, but for every 100 that understand, there are 1-3 that do not and want it last year for the most part, and always keep asking "when will it be available?"

I am not expecting anything out of this upcoming announcement, and honestly, the only way I would buy a SC5 if it came out, would be if the stuff that many others have unlocked(NWM, RHW, SAM, etc) were included in it, otherwise I would be downgrading

Quote from: RickD on March 02, 2012, 02:10:15 PM
EA wants to make money.

Absolutely....they can't exist without it. No doubt the EA bean-counters have concluded that the return on investment on a product like SC4 has been exceptional given the fact that SC4 continues to be one of the most successful games ever, albeit over a very long period.

Whether they adopt such a far-sighted model for SC5 remains to be seen. I do certainly hope that custom content creation is part of their business model as it will certainly allow a jump-off from the present SC4 base as well as ensuring the longevity of both games  ;)

EA is smart enough to know that in simulation games, third party custom content actually helps them sell more copies of their game. There is still continued support for custom content in The Sims 3 (actually EA has put out patches and added new areas to their exchange), and I would believe they would be smart enough to do the same here.

EA has also broken Custom Content for The Sims 3 several times, the Pets Expansion Pack changed how interaction points worked and EA left no consistent legacy support. Instead of updating the existing points and adding properties to allow pet interaction (and defaulting them to off to prevent interference) like they did in TS2, they made a whole new system and broke the old one.

For me SC4 is more a hobby then a game. That will be something difficult to replace, so I don't expect SC5 will be able to do that.

No matter what SC5 will bring, we still will have SC4 :-)

I did not believe a word when a new user "Caesarchen" registered at www.simforum.de on 25 February, postet the announcement about the Sim City (2013) Gamestar article, and never logged in again. He claimed to have access to the digital version as "premium member Gamestar".

Why should an American game be announced by a German journal? But why not, Gamestar is a credible journal, has been around for 15 years and they have a good network with game producers.

I bought the Gamestar issue a few minutes ago, and now I believe it. The article looks promising and credible. The English Google translations in the internet are horrible. I am lucky that I am German. Custom Content is not mentioned in the article. It states that according to Maxis, it will take more than a year until Sim City will be ready. I hope they will take the time they need to get a good product.

In the meantime, we shall create and publish further new great products for Sim City 4. The SFBT remains alive.

I would be very surprised if a new Sim City didn't offer any custom content ability, Maxis has always been good with this.  We might even be able able to import 3ds.  My guess would be that there would be an LE and perhaps a PIM.  Another thing might be a "make a building" just like we make creatures in Spore.

Edit:  Actually, "make a building" in the context of Spore could be very interesting (to me).  Something like, when your city gets 1,000 people you unlock a brick building piece.

Another thing to remember is that Maxis did not make Reader (or anything other than LE/PIM/BAT).  Where would we be if we didn't know what a FSH was?  I don't expect them to release something and then say "and here is all of our file types decoded, have fun".

My main hope is that cities/regions/worlds/whatever will take as much time to complete as they do for SC4.  If I'm done with a city in one sitting that isn't much entertainment.  My other hope is that the game barely functions on even the newest of computers.  I forget the name of the game that we used to talk about, but it would be neat if the new phrase was "but can it play SC5 full specs?".

It's exciting none the less.  Nice to see the old names still working on computer games.  Will Wright is probably beyond computer games at this point, but I don't think it is too much to say that he is more about social applications than staring at a screen (Though I hear he is making a tv show).

Quote from: Lowkee33 on March 03, 2012, 08:54:14 AM
I forget the name of the game that we used to talk about, but it would be neat if the new phrase was "but can it play SC5 full specs?".

That would be Crysis

Courtesy of Ocean Quigley (http://oceanquigley.blogspot.com/?view=sidebar):

Quote from: Ocean Quigley
Curious to see the (secret!) project we've been building at Maxis?

If you're at the Game Developer's Conference, come to "Inside the GlassBox" at 11:00 on Wednesday to find out.
Andrew Willmott, Dan Moskowitz and I will show you what our new simulation engine can do. It's pretty much the coolest thing I've ever worked on.

Hope to see you there!

Dan Moskowitz has also commented (http://danmoskowitz.blogspot.com/2012/03/inside-glassbox.html).

Quote from: Dan Moskowitz
Inside the GlassBox
I'm excited to share the news that Ocean Quigley, Andrew Willmott, and I will be presenting "Inside the GlassBox" on March 7th at 11am during GDC 2012.  It's been roughly two years that we've remained quiet about this simulation engine and the work we've been doing at Maxis, so we're thrilled to be able to present and share knowledge with the rest of the game development community.  Looking forward to it, hope to see you there.

When Ocean says it's the "coolest thing" he's ever worked on, that sounds pretty promising.

-Alex

So I see all points to be true, SC5 (or SCV) is coming. Actually I don't know if I go  %BUd% or  &Thk/( .

On one hand I love SC4 and what all the community has done so far made it an incredible game, and an hobby. So much was passed and done on it, leaving it (in some extend only ofcourse) leaves a nostalgic felling. More, What will be lost from SC4 to SC5?? so many custom content. If only the plugin system would be similar, in such way you would only have to take older models on Max and render it again the the new rendering system for instance.

On the other hand, new game, with new functionalities and simulation engine promises a lot, which leaves people excited I think. Also, there is the point of the improved graphics, which is always good, to some extend in my opinion, as I like to feel I am playing a game, not directing a movie lol. This also leads to the specs of the game, the requirements. I believe it will be pretty much as SC4 for his days, very state of the art, so I don't think most of the current players will be able to run the game in good performance/graphics and will be limited on the size of the cities (pretty much as I was on the beginning with SC4 lol)

anyway, I'll wait to see what comes up from this.

New leak of Simcity 5:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BoKT25S2yJU

http://youtu.be/BoKT25S2yJU

That trailer makes me go "meh" honestly. 

just concept art pictures so.. really "meh"

i hope you can create bigger maps than shown in the trailer..

further more i love the graphics... looks pretty promising..
i also hope its pretty editable so i can continue my projects in this new one.
but thats for the future to deside.

It's a Pre-Vis trailer. As the video's description at ST states, it's basically a storyboard for the first trailer and has about as much bearing on the game as those concept images shown earlier. The proper trailer with the missing frames (If it's finished), will probably be revealed at the Game Changers event tomorrow or maybe at the GDC.

Simcity section on Reddit these days:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpartay.michaelwnelson.com%2F20120302204242330.png&hash=88e3299e9d2feeda16be26390afc41dccc3dc459) (http://www.reddit.com/r/simcity)

http://www.reddit.com/r/simcity

Without a doubt, the entire community is exploding with news of a sequel. It's been a long time coming.  ()stsfd()

The only sad thing is that sc4 has had 9 years of content development that a lot of it is going to go poof when sc5 comes out.

Quote from: Kitsune on March 04, 2012, 02:36:02 PM
The only sad thing is that SC4 has had 9 years of content development that a lot of it is going to go poof when SC5 comes out.

Indeed, if the development of SC5 is clearly announced, I fear that it will accelerate the decline of SC4. EA has to think about integration of custom content on its future SC.

Personally I anticipated this and saved all my work as .3ds (most common 3D format). Not sure that one day, I could use again all this work...

For these reasons, I am not so confident with this announce  ()sad()

Agreed, I do admit it'll be hard to switch over with all of great custom contact from simtropolis/sc4devotion that helped make SC4 what it is today.

But change is good... Most of the time :P

Quote from: Haljackey on March 04, 2012, 04:06:55 PM
Agreed, I do admit it'll be hard to switch over with all of great custom contact from simtropolis/sc4devotion that helped make SC4 what it is today.

But change is good... Most of the time :P

I agree with you IF the stuff that has been done with SC4(NAM, STR, NWM, RHW) is included in 5, yes it will be a good version of change, but if it is like what happened with SC3000 from SC2000 on the Sega Saturn, its a downgrade.

I'll wait to see more before offering an opinion. Remember the abomination that was Sim City Societies? $%Grinno$%

Seriously, though, it's actually the community that has made SC4 what it is. If the game hadn't been moddable, I doubt I would have played it for very long.

I hadn't intended, other than a brief comment or two when the news first surfaced, to get involved a third time around in the excitement (for some)/upset (for others) dating from the initial announcement of a "successor" to SC4.  In the light of 20/20 hindsight my initial take on both SimCity: Societies and CitiesXL seems to have held up pretty well, but in each instance I recall the year or so between initial announcement of each game and their release as being full of ridiculous amounts of wasted time thinking that somehow I or anyone in the community could really bring anyone at Tilted Mill or Monte Cristo around to my/our point of view.  Both of those development efforts, in the end, proved to have been undertaken in an "echo chamber" kind of environment where each company made a big show of seeking community involvement and input, then went ahead and built the game more or less exactly the way that was intended in the first place.

I'm just not going to do that again.

In a couple of days we'll have more info about what EA is up to, and then a year plus to wait for release.  I would tend to agree with Alex (Tarkus) and others who speculate that this time around we will see the real deal- a game that builds upon a SC4 foundation and takes things we are happy with and updates them to take advantage of today's computer hardware.  Assuming that the new game is released in mid- to late-2013, that means we have anywhere from just over a year to just short of two years where nothing will change at all- a time during which SC4 remains the only game in town.  In a short attention span world, either end of that is a long time, and particularly if you are simply a person who just plays SC4 and delights in all the custom content that others are willing to put the time into and create.  That, btw, is a perfectly honorable way to be involved in this community.  I would think that most of the enjoyment custom content creators get out of the work they do is from knowing that hundreds or, in some cases, thousands of people will put it to good use.  That has always been a win-win outcome, and it makes for a great community.

If you are a creator of custom content, though, the possibility that EA is working on a legitimate successor to SC4 presents at best a dilemma and at worst a catastrophe.  The NAM Team, in particular, is working on the first stages of projects right now that will not see the light of day until some time in 2013, and perhaps even the following year.  Most of these projects are incredibly time-intensive.  I can tell you from working on triple track rail (TTR), a project with a far closer release date, that a single puzzle piece out of the 50 or so that I am creating can take an entire eight hour day to complete.  Some take far less time, but over the course of the entire project- well, you get the picture.  If the new game turns out to be everything the community is waiting for and as a result it moves en masse to playing it by the end of 2013, there will be lot of folks here who probably picture the future as one where suddenly they find themselves with a lot of time on their hands, and creations that, however well they might be conceived or amazing an addition they might make to the game, will do nothing but gather electronic dust on the abandoned LEXs and STEXs of the SC4 world.

My take on EA's mindset right now in conceiving a SC4 successor has been articulated in connection with, in particular, Monte Cristo's demonstrated approach to the CitiesXL "business model," if you will.  That is, in brief, "don't give away anything that you can sell."  It is pretty well settled, in fact, that the demise of Monte Cristo came about because the folks who would have played CitiesXL quickly soured on the notion that they weren't actually buying the game at all, they were simply renting it by the month through the Planet Offer.  In 2003, EA gave us, probably unwittingly, the keys to the kingdom in the form of the BAT tool and the Lot Editor, and by making many of the internal file formats of the SC4 program non-proprietary code-wise.  This allowed the community to develop its own tools, notably Ilive's Reader.  Our custom content creators, given nine years to play with these things, did the rest.  This time around, though, it is likely to be very different.  Think of things like SC4 tunnels, which are hard-coded in the game's EXE, and really have proved impossible to mod.  I believe that the game that is coming, whatever it looks like, will have much, much more of the game coded in proprietary and likely encrypted form.  It may be, as a result, that there will be no way, unless the new game gives you the controls to do it, to do things like modify terrain parameters or make mayor mode ploppables.  I would guess, along these lines, that the ability to lot- i.e., to group buildings, props and textures into a discrete unit- might also be severely curtailed, if not eliminated.  Why would EA impose now these limitations when, as one commenter here has noted, it has a long tradition of providing tools to do these things in the past to the community?  I think the answer can be found in what happened with SC4 versus what happened with The SIMs.  EA, fortunately, left us alone.  Purchasers of The SIMs, though, in order to stay up with the current state of game development and play had to buy frequent and expensive expansion packs and "upgrades" to the game, some of which broke, apparently purposefully, such custom content as had been created to that point.  The bottom line- I would bet my last dollar that the community's experience with SC4 starting in 2003 will not be repeated again.  Sort of a devil's bargain- we get many of the shiny, flashy SimCity things that we have been wishing for over the almost a decade since SC4's release, but we trade away in return our autonomy and an incredible degree of insight into and control over how the game works.

This has been the longest post I've written here in quite a while.  I'll wrap it up by making a few last predictions and giving you a tentative answer to where I think this is all headed.  I think we can take as a given that:

1.  There will be no backward compatibility between the new game and SC4.  To some degree a business decision, but in the main because of a different rendering engine, probably full or limited 3D versus fixed perspective.  Some of this will actually be a good thing, as computers have come a long way from, heh... the turn of the century.  As a result, though, folks will be presented with a stark choice.  If the new game, on the whole, is seen to have good aspects that outweigh the drawbacks and limitations, the folks who just play the game, versus the custom content creators, will almost certainly not play both.  The current community will certainly shrink, and perhaps hugely.

2.  EA will not "give" us SC4, nor will it become abandonware.  To think otherwise is to just delude yourself in light of EA's history with the series.  It is not going to happen.

3.  EA will not solicit open community involvement in the development of the new game.  To some degree, we brought that on ourselves, but I do not see that as necessarily being any sort of badge of shame.  Both Tilted Mill and Monte Cristo engaged in a sham process of "involvement" probably by and large thought up by their respective marketing departments.  In each case it backfired and, in the case of CitiesXL, community backlash and revulsion over being "had" probably had a lot to do with the demise of the company.  EA already knows, because it hires people who can presumably read, exactly what we want and, through sites like this, what we think SC:Next should look like.  There will, I'm fairly sure, be a lucky few among us who may hear from EA and get sent a confidentiality agreement, but don't expect to be reading about that in any of the community's forums.

4.  SC4, whatever the new game looks like, will not die.  If the new game, again, is overall viewed as a worthy successor, the community may shrink to a group of, dare I say it, very devoted followers, probably, to the extent what I have said about the limited ability to BAT and MOD and lot turns out to be so, including many of today's custom content creators.  I don't see the current generation of these folks, many of whom have been playing and working to improve SC4 from almost day one, starting all over again.  Some will get discouraged- we've already seen some attrition over the past few years as talented folks have simply moved on- but that's to be expected.  This is, after all, a hobby- recreation if you will- and not a calling or a vocation.  A large enough group will remain, though, to allow a reasonably robust development environment, perhaps more oriented toward fine-tuning and perfecting what we already have as opposed to launching the huge new projects we have seen over the past five years.  I could see SC4D looking like it did during the early days, when several hundred core members being actively involved made for a great site, and one that I today count myself very lucky to have been a part of.  All that said, if the new game is more of the same dreck as the last two times around, you can count on our community to be merciless in its judgment, and (imho) appropriately so.  I do not view in any way the opinions expressed here and other places about SC:Societies and CitiesXL as being, as some would suggest, just nitpicking by people who you can't please, no matter what you do as a game developer.  We know what we want, and we'll know SC:Next when we see it.

The bottom line: I'm looking forward pretty confidently to being here with many or perhaps most of you playing SC4 and continuing to expand that game's possibilites in 2014.  I wish EA the best of luck in developing the new game, though, and I'm always open to the possibility that miracles can occur, as one did in 2003, and we have all been blessed by it ever since.


David

@David:  I hear you.  At this point I know one thing, my computer can not play SC5  ::)

@Tarkus:  Better than if he had said "I'm pretty sure there are better ones out there".  :) 

i already think that some of the 'big guns' of the community are possibly already involved... there's been a notable absence of a lot of creators in the  'top 100' the last 12 months or so.

Quote from: Lowkee33 on March 04, 2012, 06:12:42 PM
@David:  I hear you.  At this point I know one thing, my computer can not play SC5  ::)

That's 2 of us XD

I do agree on most things said here. EA works for profit, not our enjoyment (with us I mean the community that supports the SC4 and has been doing that now for almost 10 years). I also agree that the bar is set really really high right now, because in order to make a city simulation rated very good they will have to impress this community. Why because this community makes a difference. People that just buy and play games (the ordinary consumers (I call them stupid)) will buy anything. No matter how shitty it is, then they'll play for a week maybe and get bored and buy something else. And here lies the problem. If you develop games for such buyers, you can't really put effort in them, but just have to make quantity. And that is a game that comes and gets forgotten in a month. Now SC4 on the other hand has been so adaptive, that is still sticking with us after 10 years! I mean do you guys realize how long that is? Even more so, do you realize how long that is in the IT sector, where technology gets outdated every 2-3 years? Thats 5 generations that SC4 passed. And there is no evidence that it's fading, right now we have a few teams making such modifications, that will make continue to make the game unrecognisible. Think about it! How many original things do you use in SC4? I use roads, avenues, rails and thats about it.. every thing else is completely modified, even these three are mostly unrecognisible.
So this is why I just have to agree that we will most certainly not get what we want. Because what we want is SC4 with full 3D and a full non-grid system (not the road nongrid system one gets in CXL), with full modding capabilities, with not loads, not even tons, but truckloads of free downloadable custom content, made by people that actually play the game. 3D is easy, and of course a 100% yes, but the other parts are very hard to make while keeping control over the sale and espionnage on your product. I mean we have to understand all these game publishers. They invest a lot of money into some better game systems so they can't just put it out there for their competition to see and copy. And that's the hardest part here. The question that goes thru a lot of minds. Why even bother with all this stuff and make a game immortal if we have the dummies that will buy just about anything.
Here's the answer: good marketing. SC5 will have a relatively easyer job on the market than for instance CXL (or the first unlimited version). Why because the spirit of SC4 is still alive and seems quite well known. There is a lot of big communities around the net. So this is a chance for Maxis to glitter. They fucked up with SCS, but fortunately didn't really make it the SC5 back then, so the blow wasn't that strong.
Next question. Continuity? You can't really have it. Just the realese years should say enough (2003/2013). But we could continue with the story, add experience from the community, make them softer for ''dummies'' and voila we have a game.

What I would suggest to EA if someone that can transfer this to them, please DO! Is they make an average game like they did in 2003, so they don't need to make many buildings, vegetation and ''lots'' and stuff (hopefully there will be a new concept on these too). And here is the most important part, I've got the idea reading dedgren's post. In order not to throw away months of hard work modeling and creating all the awesome stuff on the many exchanges, you guys send the 3D models to them and voila they just put them in. I mean they're made, a lot of them are really good (of course they would only use these) and for a certain number of them they would of course reward you with something small.. a free copy let's say.. And this would give them a model database of thousands of buildings, which of course is one of the main visual things that persuade me to buy SC4:DE game and not buy the Cities:unlimited game... or Cities in motion...

So yes we must stay open to the idea we actually get something comparable to SC4 next year. But even more importantly we have to be open to the idea that SC5 (if that's how it's called) will be just another notch in the belt. I also hope Maxis truly listens to the people from these communities, that are supposedly advising them. Most really know where to go. So really hats off to the men and women that really made SC4 one of the longest running games ever. The man and women from these communities!

&apls &apls

Quote from: strucka on March 05, 2012, 03:42:09 AM
What I would suggest to EA if someone that can transfer this to them, please DO! Is they make an average game like they did in 2003, so they don't need to make many buildings, vegetation and ''lots'' and stuff (hopefully there will be a new concept on these too). And here is the most important part, I've got the idea reading dedgren's post. In order not to throw away months of hard work modeling and creating all the awesome stuff on the many exchanges, you guys send the 3D models to them and voila they just put them in. I mean they're made, a lot of them are really good (of course they would only use these) and for a certain number of them they would of course reward you with something small.. a free copy let's say.. And this would give them a model database of thousands of buildings, which of course is one of the main visual things that persuade me to buy SC4:DE game and not buy the Cities:unlimited game... or Cities in motion...

While that in itself is a good idea, I could forsee some licensing issues for some plugins. Us releasing plugins carrying names, logos, etc of companies which are all trademarked without licensing fees is no big deal since we make no profit out of it and are too small-scale to be worth going after for a large coporation. If EA released a game using your models (EULA will likely stipulate the models will become property of EA games) and textures containing a British Airways 747-400 without prior approval of BA or licensing fees being paid, I could see a torrent of lawsuits coming down on EA. wWhich is also why I think that EA won't bother with that.

Quote from: strucka on March 05, 2012, 03:42:09 AM
People that just buy and play games (the ordinary consumers (I call them stupid)) will buy anything.

Those are the very reason you can have ANYTHING. How does that make them stupid?

QuotePeople that just buy and play games (the ordinary consumers (I call them stupid)) will buy anything. No matter how rubbishty it is, then they'll play for a week maybe and get bored and buy something else. And here lies the problem. If you develop games for such buyers, you can't really put effort in them, but just have to make quantity.

Actually thats a very smart business plan honestly.  Look how successful the EA sports games are.  And yet every year, those very games are the top selling games, because of that business plan. 

Look at the success of World of Warcraft.  And now Skyrim,  I guess there are a millions of "stupid people"(including myself) right?

I am still a bit skeptical. Some images look very similar to the never released game The Sims Village (of something, the very cartoon ones), for the PC. That game was canceled for the development of SC4. There is a trailer of that game on a CD form one of the extension packs of the Sims 1.

But SC5 without the components of the NAM, i don't like that idea  &mmm

it's really difficult to imagine a SCsomething ahead of what the community has been doing for SC4.

mauricio.

It should be noted that the pre-visualization trailer shown earlier has been taken down, due to an apparent "copyright claim by EA".  We'll see.

-Alex

IF it is announced, does it get it's own sub-forum straight away?

Quote from: jigsaw on March 05, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
IF it is announced, does it get it's own sub-forum straight away?

This is "SC4" Devotion, but that's not a bad idea. :P

Apparently there may be an announcement on Wednesday regarding the game. Let's hope for the best.

may i suggest we call it SC5H (simcity 5: Hopeful)  ;D

hopeful that it is a worthy replacement, and lives up to the expectations we are putting on it. the wishlists floating around are getting quite demanding.

May I ask, what are we going to talk about that needs a whole forum?

Edit: Don't mean to sound rude, perhaps this thread would belong in "Other Games".  My opinion is to avoid a conjuncture/opinion board.

The more I play SC4 with it's wonderful variety of custom stuff and mods, the less I think that SC5 could drive me away from SC4 anytime soon. For me it would need the majority of Modders and Batters and Lotters here to move on to SC5 until I could follow.

The only difference a vanilla SC5 could deliver is the full 3d environment, and for me I'm sure I won't trade the custom-made variety SC4 delivers just for that.

So I just feel comfortable in wating how SC5 developes, and have some more wonderful hours of SC4 gameplay.

Peter

Well, if it is a nice game and works well, maybe we can make agreements to switch all together....  :-\

Quote from: FrankU on March 06, 2012, 07:42:38 AM
Well, if it is a nice game and works well, maybe we can make agreements to switch all together....  :-\

Will I buy it if it is true?  Yes.  But will I play it as much as I play SC4 right now?  doubtful, unless like I said earlier, it has the very things that have been modded for SC4 already included.

Quote from: jigsaw on March 05, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
IF it is announced, does it get it's own sub-forum straight away?

Quote from: Lowkee33 on March 05, 2012, 08:28:39 PM
May I ask, what are we going to talk about that needs a whole forum?

Edit: Don't mean to sound rude, perhaps this thread would belong in "Other Games".  My opinion is to avoid a conjuncture/opinion board.

We've begun discussing it.  I think the feelings right now are that this thread right here will do the job for the present--we never had any more than one active thread about any of the other games that have come out (e.g. SC:S, CXL), and those threads never got beyond about 5-6 pages.  I have a feeling this one might be a bit different (it's already at 5 pages), but it's too early to tell at this point.  If it seems that this thread needs to sprawl onto its own board, or any other reasons come to light, we'll consider it.  We'll need to know more about the game before we do anything different, though.

-Alex

http://www.simcity.com/en_US Yup, its real  :thumbsup: And sounds like quite of a few "wishlist" items are being included

 &blush

http://www.youtube.com/v/kztNWdhRdnw

It's about freakin time.

T_T  So very, very time.  Excuse me whilst I start foaming at the mouth.

Quote from the new SimCity Site here http://www.simcity.com/en_US/faq

QuoteSimCity is a multiplayer game while The Sims is a single-player experience.

I have vivid memories of Cities XL before the world servers were shut down, not a experience I care to repeat and I am not now or ever will be a multiplayer, and they also plan on doing what Cities XL did, if you owned a physical standalone copy of the game you had limited choices and the online players got to have buses and more maps, etc, that didn't work for Cities XL and I can't see it being a popular decision for a new SimCity game.

()sad()

Everything I've seen says 1-16 players.  That seems to indicate a solo mode is part of it.  I like the fact that they're limiting it to 16 and have repeatedly mentioned "friends" in discussing it.  It seems to me that this might potentially include support having private IP setups, which, IMO, is the right way to do multiplayer.

-Alex

I am cautiously optimistic after seeing the trailer and reading the new homepage. I still worry about Multiplayer, though. It could be fun, but I do not want to be forced to take part in Multiplayer.

I wonder how much of the real gameplay the trailer resembles (yes, I have seen the note). Judging by the trailer there won't be lots any more. In the trailer you can see that buildings (or even parets of it) are placed directly on the ground. A blue outline of the buildings foundation appears presumably so that the player can see if the building fits in.

And I am not sure if I like the "the city shapes to your playing style" (tourist city, education city, ...). This sounds very much like Societies. However, I have said this when Societies came out, if it is implemented in a good way, then it could actually be really great.

I hope a real gameplay trailer comes out soon or at least screenshots come out soon.

Since the trailer only showed ploppables, I wonder wether there will still be growable buildings.
Also, one of they key questions is still unanswered: What will happen to the support for custom content? My take on it is that it'll likely be possible, since EA also still allowed it with TS3.

Zoning has been officially announced as a game feature.

Edit:

From the official homepage:

QuotePlay with new enhanced design tools like curvy roads and zoning to create the city you always wanted.

Quote from: RickD on March 07, 2012, 02:49:55 AM
Zoning has been officially announced as a game feature.

Edit:

From the official homepage:

QuotePlay with new enhanced design tools like curvy roads and zoning to create the city you always wanted.

We get that already with SC4 though, thanks to the NAM

QuoteComplete missions to unlock better buildings and create the most impressive city in your region.

I do like that they are bringing back challenges to the game like the original.

QuoteThe Sims in your city speak to you directly and it's up to you to respond by completing pledges.

This could be fun, you can become a legit politician and lie on the campaign trail and do the complete opposite once in power   :P

its going to be using origin ... that is eithier going to be a curse or a gift, and likely the former.

I didn't think I would be attracted to SC5 considering how Custom Content has enhanced SC4. However, I do think SC5 looks quite promising, though I am not keen on the multiplayer aspect.

I really don't get the multiplayer aspect. For me simcity is the ultimate game that allows me to create MY OWN world... Created to my imagination, believes, esthaetics etc. I thinknthat is the main attraction of a game like this for me, and for many other players. Having that said, multiplayer could add an extra interesting dimension, as long as I am not forced to participate in it :-)

Unlike most of you, I'm not too optimistic after watching this trailer. If this trailer is supposed to present us SC5, then MDs like AntigOne have already surpassed SC5... at least concerning realism. This game looks nothing but unrealistic. The only advance I currently see in SC5 is the fact that we will probably have full 3d graphics...

Quote from: Fabian93 on March 07, 2012, 07:17:22 AM
Unlike most of you, I'm not too optimistic after watching this trailer. If this trailer is supposed to present us SC5, then MDs like AntigOne have already surpassed SC5... at least concerning realism. This game looks nothing but unrealistic. The only advance I currently see in SC5 is the fact that we will probably have full 3d graphics...

I think Iwould play the game just for the challenges.  I honestly do miss the challenge of trying to beat the game.  I loved the SNES version of Sim City where you tried to become a megalopolis, and had the challenges of taking over other cities that a disaster was about to strike and you had to figure out how to minimize the disaster. 

Quote from: Kitsune on March 07, 2012, 05:20:10 AM
its going to be using origin ... that is eithier going to be a curse or a gift, and likely the former.

Yeap, too bad. If it definitely use ONLY orgini, I'll not buy this opus. :( ( let's hope for a steam or a " free-of-software " version of the game though..

Quote from: art128 on March 07, 2012, 07:23:11 AM
Yeap, too bad. If it definitely use ONLY orgini, I'll not buy this opus. :( ( let's hope for a steam or a " free-of-software " version of the game though..

Honestly, I think it'll be more likely EA will give it away for free than have it on steam as well or even DRM-less. They are pushing Origin now by making their titles exclusive to it, they know if they don't nobody will even bother using Origin.

Quote from: Fabian93 on March 07, 2012, 07:17:22 AM
Unlike most of you, I'm not too optimistic after watching this trailer. If this trailer is supposed to present us SC5, then MDs like AntigOne have already surpassed SC5... at least concerning realism. This game looks nothing but unrealistic. The only advance I currently see in SC5 is the fact that we will probably have full 3d graphics...

Remember what SC4 looked like when it hit the store shelves. Ridiculous! It is unfair to compare a not even yet released game with one that has been developed and polished (albeit not by the publisher but by the community) for 9 years.

The real and most important question is: Will the new game offer (at least) the same possibilities for improvement?

If the answer is yes, then I do not care what the game offers when it comes out.

Well, that might be your opinion. I for one think, that a new game should beat it's predecessor including its custom content. There would be no sense for a new game, if it can't even beat the old game (SC4) with it's plugins.
My problem is, that everything in this trailer looks so childish. I've never played SC4 for it's realistic simulation of economy or whatever... I've always been aiming for realistic looking cities - looking at this trailer AT THIS VERY MOMENT! .. I am not sure if SC5 will give me the possibilities which SC4 gives me right now.
I will buy the game anyway to check out its possibilities. Maybe I'm just a little bit disappointed right now - after watching the trailer.

Quote from: Kitsune on March 07, 2012, 05:20:10 AM
its going to be using origin ... that is eithier going to be a curse or a gift, and likely the former.

It can use origin or it can be a physical copy or download as well according to the pre-order site (http://'http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/html/pbPage.SimcityNA?easid=Origin-SimCity_Web_Tier2_PreOrderNow').

Scott

After hearing the news about Simcity 5 I decided to become a member here and share my thoughts on it, played SC4 for a while, absolutely in love with how it looks but never managed to make a city profitable  &mmm. I still love it though!

As for the SC 5 trailer: WOW! The leaked pics look like they were in-game, if that is the case: WOoOoOoOW!! i'm in love again!! Want want want!!
I Hope they keep a degree of that funky cartoony look in, the trailer is too realistic for me, but still damn nice!

But, if i'm totally honest, I'm very worried that it won't be as much fun as it seems. The things Lucy Bradshaw said scare me! Waaaay to much focus on environmental B.S. issues, and waaaaay too much focus on 'working together' (aka multiplayer) for a 'better planet' or something?? Sounds like some forced moralistic message to me. Then ofcourse there's EA, will they allow user generated content like BATS etc.? That's 50% of the fun of SC4. I don't get what is bad about 'Origin' though, but i'm not really a gamer...

What i'd like, is to build something beautiful, be it a small dreamy town or a big futuristic megapolis, make it profitable, tweak and personalise it, and then fly/drive around town, and maybe drive around in a neighbors town! And that's basically it

I'm not entirely sure if I'm able to be optimistic about this.  I've been disappointed by the recent "Simcity" style games.  There's nothing in this trailer that we didn't see in previous Sim game trailers.  Especially considering it looks more like a cinematic advertising trailer than a gameplay trailer.   

I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until I see the full features list, some actual gameplay information and more information on the simulation engine.  But I don't plan on holding my breath. 

Good grief I hate being a pessimist on this but I can't work up the energy to try and get my hopes up!  I really hope the game proves me wrong. 

Quote from: Stray Cat on March 07, 2012, 07:52:49 AM

It can use origin or it can be a physical copy or download as well according to the pre-order site (http://'http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/html/pbPage.SimcityNA?easid=Origin-SimCity_Web_Tier2_PreOrderNow').

Scott

More interestingly, it also lists system requirements:
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better, or Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 2,0GHz or better
Operating System: Windows XP/Vista/7
RAM: 2GB
Graphics card: ATI Radeon HD 2x00 or better* nVidia 7800 or better* Intel Series 4 integrated graphics or better*
Broadband internet: minimum download speed of 256kbps and upload speed of 64kbps
*Mimimum 256MB VRAM and shader 3.0 support or better
Which is not bad to be honest. I was expecting at least a quad core and something like a GTX260 as minimum.
Price was less interesting though: €80 (well, €79.99) it'd better be good if they charge that much for it.

Dang. Makes you wonder how much that will cost you on Apple, if it costs you that much on Windows, because I remember seeing a bunch of single SC4 Deluxe Apple boxes cost at least 49.99 USD. This was 2009-2010.

All I know is it better do more then Societies. Even the SimCity they put on the Wii at least allowed free form curved roads and streets, despite the serious lack of anything wider then two way traffic.

Wow, just had a look at the price on the pre-order site. In Pounds (GBP) its £64.99 (~$102 / ~78euros) for Digital Deluxe, or £44.99 (~$71 / 54euros) for Limited Edition. Seems way overpriced to me. Not at all convinced that I'll pay that much for it.

So it's official huh?  ;)

Mixed feeling about this, on the one hand it's great there will be a new SimCity at all. On the other hand, if the reason for doing so is only the 'social enviromental thingy' with multi-player regions and improve on graphics (3-d tilt-shift perspective? yuk) Maxis is seriously missing the point imo. For example, I would love it if one was able to start in a certain historic age (say medieval period) and slowly advance  to a modern day metropole. By the looks of it however, the player seems to start out in modern age immediately.

As for regional play, I hope city tiles are abandoned all together in favour of a more flexible system, e.g. one selects a certain part of the city in 'regional view' which is loaded in 'city mode' to work on or something. That said, I'm looking forward to actual gameplay footage. And needles to say I hope Maxis again does a shoddy job (as they did with sc4) so there's plenty to explore, tweak, mod and improve upon once it is out.  ;D

In this "Insider's Look" Video you can see a few tiny little sneak peaks of some models when they walk through the office:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T70evBJE93s&feature=related
Look at the monitors and the drawings on the walls.  ;)

Limited edition is priced at €59.99 (still overpriced for a PC game) here.

Quote from: xannepan on March 07, 2012, 06:47:17 AM
I really don't get the multiplayer aspect. For me simcity is the ultimate game that allows me to create MY OWN world... Created to my imagination, believes, esthaetics etc.

I totally agree with you. This is the kind of experience that I want when I play SC4.

Quote from: Fabian93 on March 07, 2012, 07:17:22 AM
Unlike most of you, I'm not too optimistic after watching this trailer. If this trailer is supposed to present us SC5, then MDs like AntigOne have already surpassed SC5...

For those who also likes natural and rural landscaping I think unfortunately SC5 will be far from regions like Corsica or Antigone. At least initially. Basically because the game is called SimCity

Quote from: RickD on March 07, 2012, 07:30:58 AM
The real and most important question is: Will the new game offer (at least) the same possibilities for improvement?

If the answer is yes, then I do not care what the game offers when it comes out.

This is the main aspect that will determine if the game will be a worthy successor of SC4 or not.

Quote from: RickD on March 07, 2012, 12:06:12 AM
And I am not sure if I like the "the city shapes to your playing style" (tourist city, education city, ...). This sounds very much like Societies. However, I have said this when Societies came out, if it is implemented in a good way, then it could actually be really great.

Honestly, I don't see how that is really too far off of SC4.  When you build a bunch of I-D in a city, R$$$ generally wants to stay far away.  It sounds to me like the concept of "demand", just couched in SC:S-style terminology.  And rather than ending up with a gimmicky-looking SC:S city, you'll just get a city full of blue-collar sims--just as you would in SC4.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 07, 2012, 09:12:47 AM
Which is not bad to be honest. I was expecting at least a quad core and something like a GTX260 as minimum.
Price was less interesting though: €80 (well, €79.99) it'd better be good if they charge that much for it.

I was surprised at the (relatively low) system requirements as well--of course, these are bare minimum requirements.  Remember what it was like trying to run SC4 on a 533MHz Pentium III with 256MB of RAM . . . and that was above the minimum specs.  These guys at EA/Maxis also aren't completely incompetent like Monte Cristo.

The US price is $59.99 for the base game, $79.99 for Digital Deluxe, which is indeed a bit higher than your average major-market PC game (usually around $40-50 average upon release).  In some ways, though, it might be a blessing in disguise, and honestly, I kind of anticipated they might do this.  It seems to indicate they're trying to shift the cost upfront rather than on the back side.  That is to say, it may indicate that they may not be going the multiple EP route of The Sims.  Especially given how Lucy Bradshaw apparently talked about her fondness of SC4 custom content, it may mean they're looking at treating SimCity not as just a game, but as a customizable "platform", a notion which they can use as part of their marketing strategy.  How many times have people said "I'd pay $X for the NAM"?  How long has SC4 remained profitable? 

Keep in mind, although most don't have accounts (or at least, readily recognizable accounts--I can understand them wanting to keep a low profile), EA/Maxis folks follow SC4D and ST.

-Alex

Edit: Rest assured, folks--we're in good hands. (http://www.techspot.com/news/47696-simcity-reboot-announced-at-game-developers-conference.html)  From the "Inside the GlassBox" presentation that wrapped up about an hour ago:

Quote from: Ocean Quigley
"We're huge fans of our modding community," creative director Ocean Quigley told the audience. "We've designed all this stuff to be moddable."

I am really quite puzzled about just what is implied by the multiplayer aspect. In some of the remarks in the official trailer and website by implication it would include (only?) the interaction of different cities in a region. If the "multiplayers" were the different mayors of the cities  without necessarily implying that each mayor had to be played by a different real person/player then it could be seen as a positive development for improving region-wide interaction on everything from energy transfers, a more realistic modelling of pollution and waste disposal, education, to airport planning. But as with so much of what has been hinted at, we should wait to see what is actually delivered.

In the meantime, I am looking forward to continuing to play SC4. And if I do decide to get the new Sim City when it comes out, I certainly won't be throwing away my SC4 disks, and the several disks worth of mods and custom lots I have accumulated.

Mod support confirmed:
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72768/simcity-designed-to-support-mods

More details here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/164870/GDC_2012_Breaking_down_SimCitys_Glassbox_engine.php

These videos are worth sharing:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/ (http://'http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/')

Scott

The SimCity development team has set up an AMA (Ask Me Anything) on Reddit and will be answering questions March 8.

Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/qmi0w/iama_maxis_development_team_on_simcity_amaa/

Feel free to ask them anything you'd like. If you're not signed up on Reddit yet, it's pretty much the easiest site on the net to get set up at. (an email address isn't even needed!)


May as well share what I asked them:

---

Hi there, guys! First of all I have to say I'm very excited knowing you are making a new SimCity! Thank you for taking the time to do a AMA!

I've been playing SimCity ever since the SNES version. SimCity 4 has been absolutely addicting for me. I've been playing it for 9+ years since 2003. The immense release of custom content (moding) not only made the game better but kept it going all these years! I enjoyed it so much that I have become involved in creating content as well.

I'm a huge transport nut both while playing SimCity and in my real life (studying urban planning). My question to you is what transportation features are you going to include in the game and how will they work?

For example, how easy will it be to add additional lanes to roadways? In SimCity 4 an additional tile had to be demolished and you couldn't go beyond 2 lanes each way (3 for highways) without additional downloads.

Will we be able to indefinitely add lanes to our roads? If I wanted say a 20 lane highway (yes they do exist in real life!) would I be able to make such a creation in the game?

Regarding airports and seaports, will they be ploppable like in SimCity 4 or zoned as in previous titles?

In terms of transit, will we be able to place stations/stops as well as plan routes? (For example, can one create a bus route or subway transfers?)

I recall seeing a potential for high speed rail. That really excites me. Will we see a functional standard rail network as well? For freight and passengers?

Lastly, will we be able to drive on our roads like the "U-Drive-It" (UDI) mode in SimCity 4? Will we be able to take the bus, subway, etc. as well?

Anyways my thanks in advance. Thanks again for taking the time to reach out to us! Community involvement is always a plus in my eyes.


You can upvote my post HERE (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/qmi0w/iama_maxis_development_team_on_simcity_amaa/c3ytj52). Posts with lots of upvotes are more likely to be responded to.

---

EA has also set up a public forum on Maxis' website: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/categories/show/232.page

---

In addition, check out 'an insider's look' at the SimCity trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/v/T70evBJE93s

Anyways that's what I've got for ya for now.

-Ryan (Haljackey)

Quote from: Stray Cat on March 07, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
These videos are worth sharing:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/ (http://'http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/')

Scott

some very good material in there. Pleased to see zoning in action.
there's potential for a real simcity and not a Societies debacle

Well, the graphics look pretty damn amazing, but I'm still unconvinced about the gameplay aspect. I don't make gimmicky cities - I much prefer realistic ones, with a bit of everything thrown in. Also, is it only going to be multi-player? Not sure I'd been keen on that. Anywho, guess I'll just have to wait till they release more info!

This is a pretty nifty simulation engine. Some of those features were even on my wishlist. Economics in SC4 were just an obstacle for me. In SC5 this could actually be a challenging and fun gameplay element. I just hope that it does not hinder creative freedom too much. I am especially worried that I won't be able to do certain things I want because I do not have the ressources.
Maybe they could do a sandbox mode where the player does not have to care about it.

What I always enjoyed most about any Sim City game is that there are no goals to be met and no challenges to win, except the ones I set for myself. I would hate it if I could not progress with my city before I meet goals that are forced down on me by the game.

My imagination of how multiplayer could work (and this is really pure speculation) is, that there is a region just like in SC4. But every city tile can be played by a different player and everything is synced over the internet.
In fact, we had an SC4 multiplayer like this going on several years ago in a german sc4 forum. We had an FTP server were every player would upload his city tile after a session and the other downloaded it to their region folders. This was great fun.

Quote from: Stray Cat on March 07, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
These videos are worth sharing:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/ (http://'http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/')

Scott

link not working here.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 08, 2012, 03:20:33 AM

Quote from: Stray Cat on March 07, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
These videos are worth sharing:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/ (http://'http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/')

Scott

link not working here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/qms3w/first_demonstration_videos_of_the_engine_that/

Vids work fine for me; the new simulator engine looks really promising and custom content support has been confirmed so I'm pretty excited now. The only thing I would like to see clarified asap is the online & multi-player aspect; though I can see how it could be fun to develop a region together, I also want to have regions all for myself without other folks milling around and play offline.

Quote from: vortext on March 08, 2012, 05:42:55 AM
The only thing I would like to see clarified asap is the online & multi-player aspect; though I can see how it could be fun to develop a region together, I also want to have regions all for myself without other folks milling around and play offline.

On the preorder page it says "Multiplayer 1-16". I am sure that "1" stands for Singleplayer.  ;)

Quote from: RickD on March 08, 2012, 05:47:50 AM

Quote from: vortext on March 08, 2012, 05:42:55 AM
The only thing I would like to see clarified asap is the online & multi-player aspect; though I can see how it could be fun to develop a region together, I also want to have regions all for myself without other folks milling around and play offline.

On the preorder page it says "Multiplayer 1-16". I am sure that "1" stands for Singleplayer.  ;)

Yes I know. It also says however that 'each region will contain different players' which could imply that, while you can play by yourself, other folks will still be around in the region. . Also not clear if you have to be online all the time. That said, it would be quite ridiculous if you couldn't have a region for yourself, so. . . have to wait and see I guess.

I wont play a game if I have to be always online to play. 

Quote from: mike3775 on March 08, 2012, 06:09:42 AM
I wont play a game if I have to be always online to play. 

You should be alright, since it's not a Ubisoft game ;)

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 08, 2012, 06:10:51 AM

Quote from: mike3775 on March 08, 2012, 06:09:42 AM
I wont play a game if I have to be always online to play. 

You should be alright, since it's not a Ubisoft game ;)

HA HA

I will get this game to play around with, but its features are going to determine whether it gets played by me or I sits and collects dust with alot of other games I have bought over the years

Quote from: mike3775 on March 08, 2012, 06:23:19 AM
I will get this game to play around with, but its features are going to determine whether it gets played by me or I sits and collects dust with alot of other games I have bought over the years

Then this would be the same what happend to me with SC4: Bought the game on release day. Played a few weeks. Thought "Meh" and deleted it. Came back two years later, discovered custom content. Addicted.  :P

Hey Ryan (Hal),
If you find out anything about the interchanges they are planning in the new SimCity, please let us know.  I enjoy SimCity for the roads and all the nifty ways we can get sims from point A to point B. :)
Thanks,
Carl (Riponite)

Quote from: RickD on March 08, 2012, 06:29:53 AM

Quote from: mike3775 on March 08, 2012, 06:23:19 AM
I will get this game to play around with, but its features are going to determine whether it gets played by me or I sits and collects dust with alot of other games I have bought over the years

Then this would be the same what happend to me with SC4: Bought the game on release day. Played a few weeks. Thought "Meh" and deleted it. Came back two years later, discovered custom content. Addicted.  :P

I actually liked Vanilla when it came out, played it continually for a bit, then found Simtropolis and custom content which made Vanilla better.  Then RH came out which improved the game even more.

This game has potential, I won't lie, it looks interesting, and if there are things that make it different from SC4(like challanges or scenario's to beat) I will play the game for awhile.  Sc4 is great to play, but there is really no real challenge outside of doing whatever you want to do, which leads me to lose interest in the game for a bit.  I have not loaded the game for over 2 weeks now, because I simply do not want to play the game.

If the game is good ima get it, probably not day one buy though because I do not trust EA. Also im kinda playing a good host of other games atm. Not sure when I will get around to buying it but if its good,and the drm is what I am willing to deal with it shall be mine.

The Glassbox Engine sounds very interesting. I am almost interested more in it then Sim City 5 lol.

Quote from: riponite on March 08, 2012, 06:39:09 AM
Hey Ryan (Hal),
If you find out anything about the interchanges they are planning in the new SimCity, please let us know.  I enjoy SimCity for the roads and all the nifty ways we can get sims from point A to point B. :)
Thanks,
Carl (Riponite)

I have asked them about intersections and interchanges as well.

There are over 2200 posts in their Reddit AMA... Fingers crossed they respond to mine! :P

EDIT! They are responding to questions 12 and 3 PST today.

View their responses to questions here: http://www.reddit.com/user/maxis

I've up-rated yours.  Those are some good questions.

I also posted a rather technical one (I'm Tarkus-OR on there) . . . there's so many questions, I'm not sure they'll get to it, but it's really neat that they're taking the time to answer community questions like this.

-Alex

Quote from: Tarkus on March 08, 2012, 12:40:24 PM
I've up-rated yours.  Those are some good questions.

I also posted a rather technical one (I'm Tarkus-OR on there) . . . there's so many questions, I'm not sure they'll get to it, but it's really neat that they're taking the time to answer community questions like this.

-Alex

Upvoted yours. Good luck! Hopefully at least one question from the active SC4 community gets answered!

Have to say, the most promising comment I've seen so far is on that reddit thread: "[Ocean] We're making SimCity, not some dopey casual game."  One can hope I suppose, I'll be interested to hear responses to more of the questions on that thread.

For those who are having trouble with those videos, there's a poor quality version available on youtube now.  At least I think they're the same videos, I haven't managed to get the first set of links working either.

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQUPqfnedxA&list=UU1v7hCbJI1eMBToq2khHRpg&index=4&feature=plcp)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMh9o1D8cRs&list=UU1v7hCbJI1eMBToq2khHRpg&index=3&feature=plcp)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhxezYyiDU&list=UU1v7hCbJI1eMBToq2khHRpg&index=2&feature=plcp)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmaxmzij6Cs&list=UU1v7hCbJI1eMBToq2khHRpg&index=1&feature=plcp)

I'm just thankful to see terraforming going on in the demo.  Wouldn't be a proper simcity game without it. 

Thanks Ryan.  I really appreciate it.

As a sidenote, I remember playing the original SimCity on my old 286.  The little red login card with black printing was a pain to read, but really I enjoyed that first game as I used to draw "maps" [which got me labeled as strange in High School.]  2000 was a wonderful step up.  I really hope this new edition lives up to the overall quality of the SC franchise.

Carl

I am clearly disappointed with these 4 videos.

Looks really childish, terrain and flora are bad and game looks american as always...

Second thing is: to have a real 3D game not allows integration of good custom content and in this sense isometric 3D like SC4 is the best way to have the best details.

Wait & see...

QuoteI am clearly disappointed with these 4 videos.

Looks really childish, terrain and flora are bad and game looks american as always...

Second thing is: to have a real 3D game not allows integration of good custom content and in this sense isometric 3D like SC4 is the best way to have the best details.

Wait & see...

Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to say. I wonder wether one will be able to build - good looking - european cities (W2W etc., I don't want to write down all the characteristicas of an european metropolis) or wether we'll be forced to build with on type of buildings as depicted in the videos.
The childish look is something I've mentioned before, too. I'm really curious about the final product; they still have lot's of time... and I am not to optimistic.

I'm hopeful that the graphics in those videos are prototypes.  The launch is still at least a year off (assuming it doesn't get delayed) so I hope we'll see some more diversity.

If not, the mod community can always fix the game again.  We didn't have W2W options in SC4 either.

i agree with girafe on this one..
im a bit dissapointed...

i'm also a bit confused about the agents system..
it clearly ruins the oppertunity for advanced water and power distribution.
but i assume everything regarding this is still in developement so we will see whats going to happen

if i ever consider buying this game i will once again start a project to upgrade the power systems..
hopefully the modding will be as easy if not easier. and hopefully they will have implimented something for wires  $%Grinno$%

but there's something i do like. thats the fact that you can customize some of the buildings to your own liking. thats pretty nice to have! adds alot of orginality to your cities and rural areas

Sorry that the original links only worked for some...These are more direct links:

http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7183/Sim-City-5-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-1of4 (http://'http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7183/Sim-City-5-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-1of4')
http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7186/Sim-City-5-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-2of4 (http://'http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7186/Sim-City-5-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-2of4')
http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7187/Sim-City-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-3of4 (http://'http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7187/Sim-City-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-3of4')
http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7188/Sim-City-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-4of4 (http://'http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/7188/Sim-City-Inside-the-GlassBoxEngine-gfx-not-final-4of4')

Scott

QuoteI am clearly disappointed with these 4 videos.

Looks really childish, terrain and flora are bad and game looks american as always...

Second thing is: to have a real 3D game not allows integration of good custom content and in this sense isometric 3D like SC4 is the best way to have the best details.

Wait & see...

Quote
Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to say. I wonder wether one will be able to build - good looking - european cities (W2W etc., I don't want to write down all the characteristicas of an european metropolis) or wether we'll be forced to build with on type of buildings as depicted in the videos.
The childish look is something I've mentioned before, too. I'm really curious about the final product; they still have lot's of time... and I am not to optimistic.

And once again, we have people jumping to say "I don't like this game".

For crying out loud, guys, Maxis made it VERY clear from the start of the video that it was prototype graphics, they only wanted to show off the simulator. To expect perfect graphics now is well... expecting too much of them.

It's early days yet, to make an assumption like this is just wrong.

And slightly cartoonish is a lot better in terms of looks - with current tech, we're going to end up in the Uncanny Valley if they tried for all out realism. I don't mind it looking slightly cartoonish and toy-like because let's face it, it's just like working with model train sets in your basement, except it's on your computer. As for limiting to isometric views... there are techniques out there that can be used to really make 3d models look good, even with unlocked cameras... I'm sure people who currently BAT for SC4 can handle working in a completely 3D game world... after all, SC4 is 3d as well, it's just using boxes with billboard images.

SA, my thoughts exactly.

Also, did you notice the URL and video title?  See the bit that says "gfx-not-final"?  It's exactly what it means--graphics not final.  If you listened to Andrew and Dan talk, they noted that they purposely stripped the graphical engine down for the presentation and put it in a debug mode so they could show the simulator mechanics.  Besides, what good is a game that just looks nice but has poor mechanics?

-Alex

^^ Me too.

I've seen 3D games look very good with custom content X3 in particular (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x4zqomD2Qk).  Everything in that video is custom.

@Buzzit:  Yeah, I'm not seeing how power polls fit in there.  It seems like utilities are "delivered" via roads (for now?).  Perhaps power can't travel as far as other things, and so you need poles.

I'm pretty optimistic about this.  The best feeling I get is when they say things like "Dirty Industry" and "Chance of Fire".  That they are using terminology from SC4 means they are probably using simulation ideas from it as well.

I haven't been to Reddit, but I aught to check it out.

Well the power model in SC4 isn't much more complex with power being transmitted through zoned land.  I would assume that the water and power models were simplified for the demo. 

Although transmission via roads isn't a bad idea since that's how most power and water are delivered at the local level in the real world.  But we shall see. 

The mechanics underlying the game (as shown in the linked videos (thanks Battlecat) actually seem to be significantly adaptable. In the videos they showed power being "delivered" by agents on the road. Sure, that means that cars could do it there. But by their system design, it seems entirely possible to create a complex system of powerlines and transformers using defined agents.

For example: Have your powerplant producing the power resource: High tension lines to feed it out to substations, which act as a collection point, then through lower cost/lower maintenance lines to other locations which would cap the limit of agents that could be carried (think of the avenues v. streets from the SC4 road model).

In a way it seems a similar (though better illustrated) model of the SC4 system. If they can make it user-friendly to work with (so that one needn't learn hexadecimal to begin to understand it) I think they have the potential for a great product if its released to the community in the way SC4 was.

In a sense, it almost seems like they're making what I think they wanted SC4 to be.

Judgment's reserved to see how things play out, but I'm cautiously optimistic about it.
-Matt

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but after looking at the videos, the concept seems pretty cool to me. 
I just hope the transportation system is robust.  Let's face it, it would be hard to beat the NAM/RHW in form and function.  i'm spoiled.  :)

My hopes are high, and that's saying a lot.

The last game I had high hopes for was Starcraft II, and that was the last game I purchased :P

EDIT: All of Maxis's responses to Simcity Reddit IMA_AMA Q&As: http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/qnz9x/

Even if the initial setup allows agents to transport power and water through roads who is to say it should remain that way, I see no reason why the agents could not be assigned to "pipes" and power lines, im sure they will take that into account since simcity 2000, 3000, and 4 all had both these features.

And if Maxis fails to deliver the Simcity we desire...WE WILL MODD THE  ________ OUT OF IT! lol.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 08, 2012, 04:08:23 PM
And slightly cartoonish is a lot better in terms of looks - with current tech, we're going to end up in the Uncanny Valley if they tried for all out realism. I don't mind it looking slightly cartoonish and toy-like because let's face it, it's just like working with model train sets in your basement, except it's on your computer. As for limiting to isometric views... there are techniques out there that can be used to really make 3d models look good, even with unlocked cameras... I'm sure people who currently BAT for SC4 can handle working in a completely 3D game world... after all, SC4 is 3d as well, it's just using boxes with billboard images.

Agree with everything you are saying Tarkus, except that realism isn't important for me and (I think) many other BAT creators. Well.. I can only speak for myself off course, but just look at all BATs out there :). For me a good degree of realism is what makes creating BATs so rewarding, ( and in a way it is easier too... since you have an example to start working from). Personally making cartoonish buildings just won't give that same satisfaction. Having that said, it is indeed way to early to say that realism won't be possible. You will be amazed how much the quality of textures on simple models can make a difference.

But you are absolutely correct SC4 is a 3D games. Our extremely complex models in 3dsmax are merely rendered / projected on extremely simple box models.

If we (BAT creators) can make the transition will depend on the tools we will have available. It will probably mean we need to become much better in creating textures, then in creating complex models. What remains to be seen is how much fun that would be compared to current satisfaction creating models.

Best case scenario is that we will have some scripts in 3ds max that will render the BATs we currently have,  to real (low poly) 3D models. Basically that would leverage the skills many BAT creators have build up over 9 years. Mathematically this would be entirely possible, and it would allow me to recreate all my current 3dsmax models into the new game. BUT... I'm not expecting this wil happen and I will stop further speculation until the games is released.

What I really really really hope for though is that maxis will pre-release some rudimentary bat tools or instructions on what we can expect, which tools could be used. I remember they did somethng similar before they released BAT for SC4. I had my model of the "Munsterchurch" ready in gmax before i could render it with BAT, and eventually it was one of the first BATs released. MAXIS even asked me by PM if I was prepared to do an interview with them at that time, but somehow this never happened (perhaps because shortely after it became clear the game would be 'discontinued'). Perhaps i will make a request for some an example model and some instructions. But again I will not get my hopes up or down too early.

-alex

The only important question answered:

Quote

QuoteDoes this new game promise to reticulate any splines?

[Andrew] Our paths (e.g., roads) are fully spline based. Thus, all you have to do is draw out a network of them, and you will have reticulated splines yourself. How awesome is that. More seriously, thinking up those load screen items was a lot of fun on SimCity 4 for the whole team. I'm looking forward to that process already.

:D

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 08, 2012, 04:08:23 PM

QuoteI am clearly disappointed with these 4 videos.

Looks really childish, terrain and flora are bad and game looks american as always...

Second thing is: to have a real 3D game not allows integration of good custom content and in this sense isometric 3D like SC4 is the best way to have the best details.

Wait & see...

Quote
Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to say. I wonder wether one will be able to build - good looking - european cities (W2W etc., I don't want to write down all the characteristicas of an european metropolis) or wether we'll be forced to build with on type of buildings as depicted in the videos.
The childish look is something I've mentioned before, too. I'm really curious about the final product; they still have lot's of time... and I am not to optimistic.

And once again, we have people jumping to say "I don't like this game".

For crying out loud, guys, Maxis made it VERY clear from the start of the video that it was prototype graphics, they only wanted to show off the simulator. To expect perfect graphics now is well... expecting too much of them.

It's early days yet, to make an assumption like this is just wrong.

And slightly cartoonish is a lot better in terms of looks - with current tech, we're going to end up in the Uncanny Valley if they tried for all out realism. I don't mind it looking slightly cartoonish and toy-like because let's face it, it's just like working with model train sets in your basement, except it's on your computer. As for limiting to isometric views... there are techniques out there that can be used to really make 3d models look good, even with unlocked cameras... I'm sure people who currently BAT for SC4 can handle working in a completely 3D game world... after all, SC4 is 3d as well, it's just using boxes with billboard images.

Can you the Uncanny Valley with buildings? Always was told that's something for people/animals. After all, a buidling is just that. Not that I mind a stylised (even slichtly cartoonish) style. when done right those can be glorious in their beauty too.

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 09, 2012, 12:49:21 AM
Can you the Uncanny Valley with buildings? Always was told that's something for people/animals. After all, a buidling is just that. Not that I mind a stylised (even slichtly cartoonish) style. when done right those can be glorious in their beauty too.

Well, I think it could happen to buildings, too. Not to the extent with faces, but when a BAT is trying to be ultra realistic, you will start noticing even small details that are wrong. I think that scale will be a big issue with a free 3D camera. Under or overscaled buildings look weird in SC4 but in most cases I am able to ignore it. With full 3D you will see it immediately.

It's like how two story houses in SC4 are taller than some of the game's shorter Midrises or that the Local Library is smaller than a Toilet Block &sly

In SC4, you don't notice that the ElRail lines and NAM overpasses are six floors tall, in a game with a free camera you will notice that immediately. If Maxis (and the modding community) have the same quality control when it comes to scaling as they do with SC4, we'll see the Uncanny Valley immediately. There are older games that do the scale excellently (Tycoon City: New York leaps to mind), but they don't have the complexity of SimCity.

On the other hand, I understand why the heights of just about everything are out of whack in SC4.  The isometric view really does a number on your depth perception, so that a 15m tall overpass doesn't look all that out of place until you stick something in scale right next to it.

Add to that the fact that we're used to viewing those sorts of things from the ground, not high up in the air.  Anything from a highrise to a single story house looks a lot taller from the ground than it does from a helicopter in real life.  On the computer screen we want that ground view because we're used to it, so we stretch the height of the models to make it look right.

All that said though, without the limitations of the isometric view I have a feeling things will be a bit more correctly scaled this time around.

It is up to Maxis to set a realistic and consistent standard that others can follow. I do not blame the SC4 batters alone for making buildings with wrong scale when even the Maxis buildings don't match each other.

Has anything been heard/said about growth stages or demand?  The main reason I stopped playing Societies is because when you unlock a building, you unlock it for life.  Of course, Societies was sort of a "plop a city", but I'm pretty sure XL worked the same way.

If there is another chance to talk with the developers could someone bring that up?

As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-2013/maxis-amaa-transcript-r232) is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?!  ???

I know I lurk around here far more than I post but think it is time I spoke up.

I am really excited by this new version and intend to play it extensively.  I see so many positives here in the announcements and Q&A's and so forth.  The ability to extend the game in new directions via Glassbox just blow me away. 

I know a lot of players yearn for the artistic license of the SC4 that has been developed extensively by the community.  So, based on what I am hearing, here is my thought:

>> The community will develop mods that essentially will dumb-down and make static the new SimCity resource model to allow for static works of art.

Modders and such...comment please?  Do you foresee this being a possible mod for those who want a true sandbox?

Thanks.

Scott

Quote from: vortext on March 09, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-2013/maxis-amaa-transcript-r232) is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?!  ???

What the first answer is describing is how the various cities interact.  It sounds like this game's version of the neighbor deals is going to be a lot more sophisticated with a complex mixture of supplies and demands.  Just because you're playing the region solo doesn't mean those game mechanics disappear. 

The key takeaway appears to be that those supplies and demand interactions between cities exist regardless of the number of players whether it's solo, two or 16. 

Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space. 

Thanks for clearing that up, I was almost  :'( with the notion the sandbox would be gone. 

Quote from: Battlecat on March 09, 2012, 10:42:32 AM
Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space.

YES! That would be great. In fact, I hope they ditch the tile system all togther and come up with something more sophisticated for regional play. There's next to nothing said on that in the Q&A. Though I must say it does appear they're really pushing for a worthy sequal. Fingers crossed.

There are two answers in the AMA that caught my eye.

The reason why SC4 runs so slow even on high-end machines:

QuoteSimCity 4 was unfortunately the victim of changes to GPU drivers. To support the high building count and detail, it was a so-called "dirty rect" based game, where only stuff that actually changed from frame-to-frame was re-rendered. This required being able to copy the depth buffer around on the GPU, particularly when panning the camera. There was a standard path for doing this at the time, but it became deprecated in later versions of DirectX, and drivers started falling back to slow paths which copied the depth buffer down to the CPU, shifted it around, and then copied it back up. Even with today's cards and PCI-X buses, this is still a pretty slow process.

QuoteThe size of our new cities are roughly equivalent to the SC4 medium sized city (2 kilometers square).

()sad()

Regarding the 2km thing, I remember when I first got SimCity 4 Deluxe and was playing it on a system that was decent for the time, but still on the lower end as far as system requirements went for the game, it lagged horribly on large city tiles once they got above about 30,000 population, and until I upgraded my system, I was predominantly playing on medium tiles.

My guess is that with the huge leap in going full-3D and having a fully-linked system with tens of thousands of agents, there's probably a similar rationale there.  It's always possible they could change things (or it could even be modded down the road--what I've seen of GlassBox so far demonstrates some pretty amazing flexibility), though we won't really know until closer to release.

-Alex

I won't mind playing on medium city tiles for an entire region, that could actually make it more fun as with large tiles, playing to only have R, C, and I in a large city tile is a pain in the behind to do, but easy to do with medium and small city tiles

Quote from: vortext on March 09, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-2013/maxis-amaa-transcript-r232) is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?!  ???

As far as I can tell from reading the questions and answers there isn't a offline (standalone) version, you are online all the time and even if you don't want to play with anyone else ... your city will be impacted by what's happening in the surrounding cities.

Half of me is going a new simcity   &dance

the other half which doesn't want to be connected to the internet or have to worry about what other players are doing is   ()sad()

I have a standing policy of not playing any games that are online only ... I broke that for Cities XL and regretted it, whether I'll change my mind in a years time  if it means a new SimCity ... I don't know.

-catty

This sounds almost like those guys on STEAM and what they were able to do, sort of (not supported) online play before. It almost sounds like the retail market, with what your competitor does, affects your outcome. I don't understand why single player would be a major no go. I feel like SC4 was marketed as an Online game, and you could go to that website and one time SC scape was in all its glory, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Quote from: Battlecat on March 09, 2012, 10:42:32 AM

Quote from: vortext on March 09, 2012, 10:31:17 AM
As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-2013/maxis-amaa-transcript-r232) is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?!  ???

What the first answer is describing is how the various cities interact.  It sounds like this game's version of the neighbor deals is going to be a lot more sophisticated with a complex mixture of supplies and demands.  Just because you're playing the region solo doesn't mean those game mechanics disappear. 

The key takeaway appears to be that those supplies and demand interactions between cities exist regardless of the number of players whether it's solo, two or 16. 

Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space.

I think Battlecat got the right gist here.  The answer implies that the interactions between cities in a region remain the same whether you play it by yourself or whether you share the experience with other people.  Personally, I've always wanted to try a multiplayer SimCity and I'm glad they're incorporating such a feature.

On another note, I do hope the city size is expandable in the future as technology marches on.  I honestly feel cramped even on a 4kmx4km grid, since I like lots of space to grow farms and build mainly rural regions.

Quote from: RickD on March 09, 2012, 12:58:03 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 09, 2012, 12:49:21 AM
Can you the Uncanny Valley with buildings? Always was told that's something for people/animals. After all, a buidling is just that. Not that I mind a stylised (even slichtly cartoonish) style. when done right those can be glorious in their beauty too.

Well, I think it could happen to buildings, too. Not to the extent with faces, but when a BAT is trying to be ultra realistic, you will start noticing even small details that are wrong. I think that scale will be a big issue with a free 3D camera. Under or overscaled buildings look weird in SC4 but in most cases I am able to ignore it. With full 3D you will see it immediately.

Yup, exactly... case in point (in the SC4 world)... buildings that are done with BAT4MAX.

They're more realistic, yes... but they stick out. Why? Because they're more realistic. The colour palette used for BAT4MAX (the new rig, that is) tended to be emphasised more towards the blue end of the spectrum (relative to buildings rendered using the default SC4 BAT rig), and as a result they tended to look a little more sterile. Superior quality, yes... but it just never sat well with me.

The uncanny valley is something that tends to be used to describe things that don't exactly sit right relative to everything else.

Well, after having read all 10 pages of this thread and linking to all the sites listed, I have to say my initial pessimism has been greatly allayed and I, too, am cautiously optimistic about the new SC5.  Many of my original questions have been answered and while many questions remain, there is 12-18 months of dev time still to go and I am certain Maxis is going to continue to leak us SC4 fans tidbits of news on a regular basis. 

I am especially a bit excited about the Glassbox engine.  I mean, think about the name for a minute:  Glassbox.  You can SEE eveything inside the box, right?  Why would the devs go to the trouble to make all the items inside the engine visible if not to make them also ACCESSIBLE?  Just to torture all the modders?  Hardly.  And from the short video that explained how individual items were pathed via agents, etc. (all a bit over my non-programer head), it appeared to me that  the player will be able to create and path game items in a nearly infinite number of customizable ways. 

The idea of an actual water table is also encouraging to me and something that I thought was horribly overlooked in SC4, as anyone who has followed my frustration with game water/plop water rants over the past 9 years knows.  We'll see if SC5 has a realistic water table scheme, i.e. one that allows the water table to vary in depth across the landscape, but if it does, we may actually be able to create fresh water lakes and rivers again, without resorting to plop water. 

Only major question remaining to me is backward compatibility to the 9 years worth of incredible work the entire SC4 community has created.  Sadly, I don't think it will be possible and that the huge library of custom content created so far will end up compatible only with SC4.  For those of us who don;t create content but use that created by others, this will be a major blow, at least for the first couple of years...until the modders who mod for fun start playing around inside the Glassbox engine and creating an entire NEW library for us to play with.  For many, the challenge of the new engine and years of new modding work ahead of them, this new game will be a dream come true.  For others, the lack of custom content from the beginninng will be a deal-breaker, at least for a while.  The good news is, SC4 will still be around and us non-modders can still play it happily for years to come while the modders get SC5 up to snuff for us.

Myself, I plan to pre-purchase the game as soon as I gather together the money to do so.  Yeah, it's a bit pricey, especially for someone working part-time in fast food, but I've been playing SC for almost 20 years now and must, must, must have the new game.  I'll be following all the news and developments in the year ahead and, if Glassbox lives up to it's hype, may actually venture into the world of modding myself.  It looks to be a much easier interface that what we currently have, at least what little we have been shown about it so far. 

Lastly, I think it may be time to create a new board on the forums here dedicated to all things SC5.  Ten days, ten pages so far, and we have a year or more of discussion ahead of us while we watch with anticipation (and dread) how SC5 development pans out. 

Just my $.02.

Lora/LD

I'm interested in whether or not the MAXIS have asked one of the NAM team for help in building the transportation network of Sim City 5. It would be stupid hell if they do not comply with the work of the NAM here and leave only primary road network of Sim City 4 and NAM team to work must start from zero.

- Ivo

Scientific American has done an article on the new SimCity

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=simcity-2013-players-face-tough-energy-environment-choices

a quote from page2 of it

QuoteBecause the game is participatory, however -- players "share" virtual worlds via the Internet -- decisions made in one city affect others. Sewage pumped into a shared waterway can have health effects on a downstream population, and air quality is affected by all players in the region. There are even rumors that climate change may appear as a "macro-level" pollution effect.

doesn't sound like standalone is going to be an option

I disagree, the article is about the complexity of the new Simcity and not necessary about the multi-player. Even in standalone you need to be carefully. Beside, Maxis said that multi-player is not the only way of playing.

Nobody wondering what approach EA will impose on Maxis in regards to third party content, considering topics like DLC, City Sets, and so forth?

Another item, I keep seeing remarks towards the style containing words like "playful". When you look at the transcripts, there's a lot of negating on point questions (understandable, hello marketing) but always followed by emphasis on cool and playful look & feel. To me one of the big selling points of SC4 is realism as deep as you want. Having ran away from Sim City Societies (and vividly remembering the trauma from a briefing of the fortunately cancelled Village bull) there's some simple commercial thinking to apply. Both developer and publisher will want to use an existing set of user groups as a catalyst. They will also realise however that these are not really their target markets. Far from. It's a case of "need em for transition", but nothing more. Targets set will simply adhere to common commercial sense. A balance will be sought between casual and leisure gameplay, with the usual fashionable dose of achievement / online presence sharing. Add microtransactions on top.

There is one thing that still stands in the back of my mind though, at a GDC a while ago there was a discussion between some EA and 2K guys, with the latter being subject to giddy ridicule on the case of Civ V and its tantrums in publishing. EA will have learned from 2K's mistakes.
In many ways, the transition from Civ 4 (with its core user groups towards a larger set of commercial targets (and adaptations in design & programming - etc) with dependancies for the latter rather than the former) to Civ 5 is not that commercially different from the transition of SC4 to SC5. 2K did it terribly, but that is fine since it made money as projected.

The developer being Maxis, that is nice. But publisher beats developer at every corner in this industry. This being EA, does worry me.

It will be interesting to observe third party developers for SC4 and their interactions as individuals (and teams) with Maxis over the upcoming year. Equally interesting will be to see clarity down the road on style (which decides far more in terms of development mindset than most people seem to consider), and on mechanisms.

Can we do one thing here, please?  The distinction between "Maxis" and EA that various commenters around the SC4 community are drawing is a completely artificial one.  Maxis (the company) was bought by EA in the late 1990s.  The remnants were wholly subsumed into EA around the time SC4 was released.

I think that EA now realizes there is significant goodwill remaining toward the Maxis name in the community, hence its resurrection in connection with SC:Next.  I do not believe, however, that Maxis is being used as anything other than a way to further brand the effort.  It is really amusing, here and elsewhere, to see the numerous references to "good" Maxis and "evil" EA.

Folks, it's all EA.


David

To my knowledge, sometimes Maxis, in its present-day incarnation, is referred to as "EA Emeryville", or sometimes "EA Maxis Emeryville", both of which have appeared in recent press releases about the game--and that's technically what they are.  It's basically just a second office EA has in the Bay Area along with the main office (EA Redwood Shores) that currently houses SimCity development.  EA's owned Maxis for 15 years--2 years before SC3000 was even released. 

Regarding single vs. multiplayer, everything I've seen has said 1-16 players.  That obviously means single player is an option.  This was reiterated in the Reddit session and recently via the @SimCity twitter account.

-Alex

Asking for license for reproduction of texts .... I do not think I get too detailed but it was a bit confused!


""4) halfbakednco:
Maybe I missed it in all the released details but I am hoping there is an offline mode that is full featured with region play similar to SC4?....
Maxis:
[Ocean] Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo. ....

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible. .... ""

I think that they themselves have not reached a consensus but make sure that relying on the EA prevailed the first answer.

I have not seen in any text despite repeated questions a positive confirmation that the game will have a stand alone option.


""25) Zakerias:
What do you think will be the biggest gameplay improvement over Simcity 4?
Maxis: [Dan]
As for the biggest gameplay improvement, we're moving from a purely statistical simulation model to an agent based model. So one example of how that's different would be that the vehicles you saw in SC4 were just visual representations of 'traffic density' at that location, they weren't real, if you watched them long enough they'd fade out as they turned corners. By contrast, with our new simulator, each and every vehicle and person is a real simulation entity heading to some real destination. ""

This certainly was a utopia unless we were all sitting in front of powerful workstations do not see how it would be possible in large and medium cities. The graphical representation of the traffic already represents a huge load in the game made in current patterns where the actual model and displaced by the effects directory just to follow the routes of travel and congestion show.
Really represent each entity as a model to be moved according to the path set for such work is sure to cook any i7 despite below to answer what are the resources required for the game.

""27) nhexum:
....How are you planning to keep hardware requirements accessible for large cities?....
Maxis:
[Andrew] Like most of the games we make, we're targeting a broad audience with this game, we don't want to limit ourselves to only those who have the latest-and-greatest graphics card. What we do is scale our graphics options depending on what hardware you have, so it's playable on our min spec, but we can still turn on all the cool bells and whistles on the high end. (Did someone say tilt-shift?)
""

That is the same as we do now!

The possibility of free cameras would mean losing all content created during these years by the community from scratch and relying on the promise that the game would still be modifiable as it is today which leads me to the equation below.

  EA. +. DLC. +. Their other games = I find it very hard to believe

Anyway if the world does not end in 2012 we will see how the promises will become reality.

Thanks NCGAIO for putting those quotes together, it makes it clear that when people like myself are asking about a standalone version (my city, on my computer and no internet access) they are talking about a solo player city-building on a virtual world and still being effected by other players decisions on that virtual world.

Not something I want to do, for me city building is my unwinding time at the end of a busy day ... just me and the computer, I was building a cemetery the other night (not in SimCity, but in Cities in Motion ... see results in sig link) and it was just   ()stsfd()  and I would have got the same feeling had I been doing it in SC4.

I don't want to worry about other players or the "economic landscape" ... RL is complicated enough I don't need it in my "downtime" as well.

Cathy

"Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo."

"We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible"

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but to me those two statements seem a little contradictory.

I've been doing a bit of google research, this is just one link

http://www.highpants.com/technoid/?p=8166

but pretty much all the other articles are saying the same thing

QuoteBeing built from the ground up to make use of the latest multi-player and multi-platform technologies players will be able to play co-operatively as well as continuing your cities evolution across many devices. On the go play it on your tablet then when you arrive home jump on your PC and pick-up the game where you left off.

QuoteCentral to this the game will make use of cloud storage for saved games and allowing a new multi player collaborative mode with up to 16 people able to work within the same world simultaneously. The cloud storage also allows the game to easily be played on various platforms.

&mmm

Only time will tell, but my personal feeling is that those statements are being taken the wrong way.

First off:

QuoteYeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

My impression here is that just like SC4, you still have to deal with the simulation engine; the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy and therefore the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo; taken as a generalized statement, in the single player case the other players (read mayors of the other city tiles) will be you.

You can't just ignore the simulator in SC4, you either have to make sure your city shows a profit or you have to occasionally ctrl-x yourself some more money in order to keep your city afloat while you play in your psuedo-sandbox.  I suspect the same will be true this time around, unless they do add a SCURK-like tool/mode.

New development video. I'm impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/v/vS0qURl_JJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS0qURl_JJY

Some of the stuff in the video is very, very clever, especially for a game that's fairly early in development.

Also note that it comes accompanied with a blog entry (http://www.simcity.com/en_AU/blog/article/glassbox_blog_1).

Perhaps by going through Mr. Quigley's blog some of our top BATers can get a jump on how to create low-poly models for SC5 $%#Ninj2

I'm really very impressed.  There's a nice sense of levels of hierarchy to the simulation. 

-Alex

I am happy to see there are developments of a new Simcity. At first I didn't believe it, but the last video is very promising. I'm impressed, too.   ()stsfd()
Can't wait to see the new game being finished.

Well, I have mine preordered since monday. Not on Origin though, in an actual store ;D

Nice SC2013 ideas with very primitive pictures of buildings ... It's for primary school - looks like Sims 2 or Sims 3  $%Grinno$%

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 21, 2012, 09:00:09 AM
Well, I have mine preordered since monday. Not on Origin though, in an actual store ;D

The local on-line shop in NZ is doing pre-orders for it as well

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/PC-Games/SimCity/19759110/

and yes they ship overseas

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/help/Delivery/4/International-delivery-rates/15/

Quote from: Connor on March 15, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
"Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo."

"We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible"

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but to me those two statements seem a little contradictory.

If it is the case that my gameplay is going to be affected by some unnamed stranger halfway across the world, that is pretty much a game breaker for me.  I don't like having to clean up my own messes, I sure don't want to have to try and fix something some one else screwed up.  :thumbsdown:

Where is the difference if the gameplay is influenced by an abstract online function or some arbitrary offline algorithm?  ()what()

As far as I understand it is not like a specific stranger will log into your game and mess up your cities. It is just that the data source which the algorithm uses is an averaging of what other players do. They could as well use a random generator. I do not really see a problem here.

Quote from: catty on March 21, 2012, 10:27:16 AM

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 21, 2012, 09:00:09 AM
Well, I have mine preordered since monday. Not on Origin though, in an actual store ;D

The local on-line shop in NZ is doing pre-orders for it as well

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/PC-Games/SimCity/19759110/

and yes they ship overseas

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/help/Delivery/4/International-delivery-rates/15/

That awkward moment when buying the new SimCity for a shop in New Zealand and having it shipped to you (ie: across the globe) is cheaper than buying it locally ;D

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 23, 2012, 03:37:11 AM
That awkward moment when buying the new SimCity for a shop in New Zealand and having it shipped to you (ie: across the globe) is cheaper than buying it locally ;D

That awkward moment when buying any game from a shop in Europe or the United States and having it shipped to you (ie: across the globe) is cheaper than buying it locally ;D

Quote from: RickD on March 23, 2012, 01:21:33 AM
Where is the difference if the gameplay is influenced by an abstract online function or some arbitrary offline algorithm?  ()what()

As far as I understand it is not like a specific stranger will log into your game and mess up your cities. It is just that the data source which the algorithm uses is an averaging of what other players do. They could as well use a random generator. I do not really see a problem here.

There is a difference.  That unseen algorithm only does exactly what it is programmed to do, based on my inputs.  That unseen player doesn't have any defined parameters, and as we all know, human beings are the most unpredictable creature on earth. 

Sure with the algorithm, you are going to get a result in the extreme now and then...with a bunch of players, you could get some really wild extremes that skew everything.

Plus I just don't like the idea of having to log into the internet to play a SP game, or have that game connect on its own...it could turn into a security issue.

But that would be extremely bad programming if the algorithm would not even out the extreme. I'll keep cool and wait until we know more. It is pure speculation now anyway.

Quote from: Shark7 on March 23, 2012, 09:01:57 AM

Quote from: RickD on March 23, 2012, 01:21:33 AM
Where is the difference if the gameplay is influenced by an abstract online function or some arbitrary offline algorithm?  ()what()

As far as I understand it is not like a specific stranger will log into your game and mess up your cities. It is just that the data source which the algorithm uses is an averaging of what other players do. They could as well use a random generator. I do not really see a problem here.

There is a difference.  That unseen algorithm only does exactly what it is programmed to do, based on my inputs.  That unseen player doesn't have any defined parameters, and as we all know, human beings are the most unpredictable creature on earth. 

Sure with the algorithm, you are going to get a result in the extreme now and then...with a bunch of players, you could get some really wild extremes that skew everything.

Plus I just don't like the idea of having to log into the internet to play a SP game, or have that game connect on its own...it could turn into a security issue.

Glad to see this is still an issue of discussion and not just me that's confused about it. I concur there is a difference between an offline, unseen algoritm and a online dynamic one. Sure the latter wil even out but only eventually. Say I have a medium sized region based on coal resource, played all by myself. Now someone across the globe decided to start a massive, multi-player region with millions of tons of coal, which makes it dirt cheap. I would hate it if this could cause a recession in my region, if only temporary.  And like Shark7 said already, I don't like to be online all the time. Besides, internet connections can have down time . . .   

But you're right RickD it's still speculation at the moment. I just hope Maxis adresses this issue as soon as possible.

I have some bad news to report...  :(

SimCity to require always-on internet connection: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/28/simcity-to-be-crippled-by-always-on-lets-change-this/

NOOOOOOOOOO!  :'( Hope they change this. Gameplay should be primailily focused on single-player, multiplayer/online should be secondary.

&cry2

In my opinion that is one of the most bone-headed decisions they could've made (for reasons stated in the article). No doubt there will be "other ways" to paly the game so that it doesn't require an always on internet connection.
For instance, in my case, my internet and tv come through on the same line, so if the tv goes pear-shaped, you need to reset the router, which obviously also causes the internet connection to drop.

Bummer, I was hoping they wouldn't do something stupid like this.  But it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. 

Even Steam gives you the option to play offline. 

I'm not surprised either, this is so typical, with typical people in charge, and their usual stubbornness and ignorance. This Origin crap was the same mistake they made with Mass Effect 3. Its a shame, the developers knew what they were doing, but EA's management now is at the point, where they are too concerned about money, that they don't care about their consumers. Its simple really, produce, listen to the consumer's demands, then profit. You don't be all like ???, and oblivious, then expect to make profit, without listening. Again, its the usual typical people running things, that, always having to learn the hard way, after failing it up for the rest of us.

If their like, you don't agree with the terms and conditions, then just decline, well fine, if you guys don't want to make 100 millions, by not listening to over 280,000 plus would-be buyers world-wide, then fine, will just take our business elsewhere. Honestly, how can these typical business men, not see it coming.

Simple and fast.

I bet that most of the community will not buy!

Modding is what made simcity through a decade and it's coming later no positive confirmation of the EA is because they want the rent!

Nothing new when it comes to them and the importance they give to consumers just see below:

BATTLEFIELD ™ 3: Aftershock for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch
- (Released in December 2011)

March 31, 2012 - Online Services Shutdown

has more

http://www.ea.com/1/service-updates

There goes any interest in the game from me. 

There are very few games I like to play online, and when I do, its usually with my real life friends only

Well, now I'll just wait for an unofficial patch before I buy it.

This is something brought up several times, especially in the Reddit AMAA, and Maxis tiptoed around the issue by ignoring those parts of questions.

They know this wasn't going to be received well, but from what I've read about the mechanics they're going to implement, it's not going to change. It's because of that stupid dynamic Worldwide Economy and Online Saving system that they are implementing and a lot of people have been arguing for of all things. It's more crap that has to be processed and it hampers the single-player experience.

EA! If you're going to keep ripping off Steam, then rip off the Steam Cloud. It works well. Don't force this crap. We also don't want people from elsewhere stuffing with our cities in any way unless we explicitly want them to.

If SC4 had online only, I would never play it still.

I can just imagine some idiot troll seeing someone making a great city develop online, turn around and deliberately build a industrial wasteland next door with no anti-pollution controls for air or water just to screw over the person who may have spent hours upon hours building a great city

It was very entertaining reading this thread from beginning to this point. I discovered the news late as of yesterday and came here see the thoughts. According to what I read so far in the various articles, this will be a physics based city builder on a massive scale as everything is connected through cause and effect from the sim to the arsonist riding around the black van setting buildings on fire causing air pollution.
Hopefully the suits will do the right thing and give us our stand alone solo play option. So I'm not worried about the game itself sucking but those suits man.........

Guys, the article got revised to say that the game requires an initial connection with the Origin servers, rather than constantly requiring a connection, so if your internet connection goes down, you'll be able to still play it. It's par for the course with that sort of DRM.

But, I get the feeling this is only being implemented because of the expanded multiplayer functionality that Maxis want to put into the game... so we're really gaining some and losing some.

It's not the end of the world, folks. I'm inclined to wait and see what they try to screw us over with rather than making such an irrational decision about not buying the game, right now, more than a year from release.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 28, 2012, 10:35:05 PMGuys, the article got revised to say that the game requires an initial connection with the Origin servers, rather than constantly requiring a connection, so if your internet connection goes down, you'll be able to still play it. It's par for the course with that sort of DRM.

Authentication is still required to launch the game at all, even if it won't kick you out like past Ubi games did. It's a failure point we don't need.

Still, the required use of Origin at all is a deal breaker for me. I already use Steam, I don't need another service.

What if you don't have an internet connection? I mean, yes most people in North America and Europe have it. But it's far from 100% even far from 90%, so this is actually quite discriminatory to those. I mean what's the point of these internet thingies? I'm sure it's great to play games on the net, especially games specially designed for that. We've all figured by now that city simulation doesn't really do multiplayer very well, at least some of us have (Monte Cristo incl.). All these publishers are using the internet to fight piracy. And mostly nothing else. And that's a fight they will never win this way. If someone from EA is reading this:
Make a good game and people will eventually buy it. Instead of wasting half the money just for good piracy protection, that lasts about 6 seconds.

On another note. What makes a city sim really good for me? Public transportation and most of all realistic bridges and viaducts. I just recently figured why Cities XL doesn't break it for me. Look at those bridges... I mean seriously? Deleted the game two days ago. Definately not buying that crap. 3 years, 3 upgraded versions and still not worth a cent.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 28, 2012, 10:35:05 PM
Guys, the article got revised to say that the game requires an initial connection with the Origin servers, rather than constantly requiring a connection, so if your internet connection goes down, you'll be able to still play it. It's par for the course with that sort of DRM.

But, I get the feeling this is only being implemented because of the expanded multiplayer functionality that Maxis want to put into the game... so we're really gaining some and losing some.

It's not the end of the world, folks. I'm inclined to wait and see what they try to screw us over with rather than making such an irrational decision about not buying the game, right now, more than a year from release.

But why should I have to allow a game to go online to play, even if I can log off and still play.  Seems a waste of my time having to go through logging in, then having to log off, just to play.  And what guarantee is there that you will really be logged off as well?   

I should have the option of going online to play if I want, not be FORCED to log in then off to play the game.  Why don't they just come out and say this is to try and prevent the game from being pirated?  As that is the real reason why they are doing it, but are to chicken!@## to say so, because they know they risk alienating many people who are against DRM in every little thing(especially after the bull!@#$ Sony pulled with their CD's a few years ago).  I never play the original disc's(same with movies and CD's), I always make a copy and use those to play, but I will not be able to with this game if you have to go online before playing.  Sorry with 9 kids running around my house, I can't afford to be replacing scratched discs over and over like they seem to want people to do with this DRM crap.

If you depend on me will not take a cent ... if to be signed in to play so why buy a game I was content to spend time in the dozens of on-line that plague the network.

Incredible that this will continue happening. If this does not work for Microsoft or with their systems (the copies of the Windows8 say) why someone will insist on it.

I might even be wrong but I think most of today playing Simcity has no need of multiplayer. Nor do I see the reason in a city simulation game ... is a typical standalone game.

The reason for the stubbornness is obvious ... the clink of coins entering the box. Then if it fails it just shut down the service.

I think the negative impact this news will show ... especially in pre-sales ... what the community want to add that they think about it!

Well, technically you are not buying the game. You are buying use of services and access to, and a limited right to use those through specified methods & means.

Ofcourse, it's something which stateside is perfectly legal, in the EU that is very different, something EA still hasn't finished negotiating about with one of the Commissions.

Either way, there's no point complaining about not being allowed to do with a game you buy the way you want to use it. Because you don't buy the game, only the use of it.

Ok! very well explained ... Now I wonder how many copies of this license to use the EA could sell it explained this way?

If someone trusts recommend reading

http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/48600-simcity-to-require-always-on-connection-to-origin/page__view__findpost__p__1235285 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/48600-simcity-to-require-always-on-connection-to-origin/page__view__findpost__p__1235285)

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 28, 2012, 10:35:05 PM
Guys, the article got revised to say that the game requires an initial connection with the Origin servers, rather than constantly requiring a connection, so if your internet connection goes down, you'll be able to still play it. It's par for the course with that sort of DRM.

But, I get the feeling this is only being implemented because of the expanded multiplayer functionality that Maxis want to put into the game... so we're really gaining some and losing some.

It's not the end of the world, folks. I'm inclined to wait and see what they try to screw us over with rather than making such an irrational decision about not buying the game, right now, more than a year from release.

In the end, to me it does not matter.  Requiring me to connect to a server to play a single-player, offline game is a deal breaker.  If SC5 requires me to register and connect to Origin to play, then it is dead on arrival as far as I am concerned. 

I feel we really should take a moment to realise something.

"We" - as in old timers, modders, simcity veterans and armchair strategists - are NOT the target for SimCity 5.

The target for SimCity 5 is an audience with growth perspectives based on casualisation, cross media connectivity, enablement of growth of preferred platform (origin) and enablement of secondary monetary streams.

Some of "us" are a part of that. I suspect that most of us are not. I could be wrong on that last part, but we should not forget that SimCity 5 shares a great deal with the original franchise, but it is based on a completely different set of paradigms: that of online interactivity + online interdependancy + monetisation.

I get the idea that most people generally being customers tend to forget something: it's not a game, it is a business. The game is not made for the gamer, but for the potential customer. This is something EA has been looking at very hard, it was even a major topic at a discussion between some EA and 2K Games guys last GDCC.

To keep it simple, put the project venture of SimCity 5 in an analogue light of Civ 5. Maybe that is more simple to reflexively grasp. Look at Civ 4 the well modded harder core carried game, and look at the transition to Civ 5. It's a well established playbook these days, that transition in game development and Publishing.

That's really a no brainer, this is EA. I know, individual devs of old are still around, and the name Maxis is around. Unfortunately, while that shows a lot, it says nothing at all. Game design is these days a simple case of tailoring creative drive to a well defined set of calculations for types, markets, methods, conditions and commercial opportunities.

"We" are a niche. One which can enable a lot of attention and pull for EA, but which simply is too small for anything but the angles of third party enablement and marketing.
EA can pull the marketing and channel the sales without that niche. It's just easier for them to run with. As for the modder interaction we will see there, I will be unsurprised to see after it all that technical focus was the limit of what was taken away by EA (who decide for the devs regardless of interaction with third parties). If anyone at some point wants to prevent a mistake there, you're going to have to provide quantifiable sales pitches for select user types other than the "oldies".

That does not mean that SC5 is going to be bad. It will be good. It will simply be better for more casual and networked user types. It will look good, you will find yourself connected and connectable, you will be able to boast to others and show off, and get additives via Origin.

As for the "online" part, y'all know the focus of EA on Origin. Y'all know the strategic aim. Keep in mind, you don't own what you think you buy.

Quote from: macvirt on March 29, 2012, 02:15:04 PM
I feel we really should take a moment to realise something.

"We" - as in old timers, modders, simcity veterans and armchair strategists - are NOT the target for SimCity 5.

The target for SimCity 5 is an audience with growth perspectives based on casualisation, cross media connectivity, enablement of growth of preferred platform (origin) and enablement of secondary monetary streams.

Some of "us" are a part of that. I suspect that most of us are not. I could be wrong on that last part, but we should not forget that SimCity 5 shares a great deal with the original franchise, but it is based on a completely different set of paradigms: that of online interactivity + online interdependancy + monetisation.

I get the idea that most people generally being customers tend to forget something: it's not a game, it is a business. The game is not made for the gamer, but for the potential customer. This is something EA has been looking at very hard, it was even a major topic at a discussion between some EA and 2K Games guys last GDCC.

To keep it simple, put the project venture of SimCity 5 in an analogue light of Civ 5. Maybe that is more simple to reflexively grasp. Look at Civ 4 the well modded harder core carried game, and look at the transition to Civ 5. It's a well established playbook these days, that transition in game development and Publishing.

That's really a no brainer, this is EA. I know, individual devs of old are still around, and the name Maxis is around. Unfortunately, while that shows a lot, it says nothing at all. Game design is these days a simple case of tailoring creative drive to a well defined set of calculations for types, markets, methods, conditions and commercial opportunities.

"We" are a niche. One which can enable a lot of attention and pull for EA, but which simply is too small for anything but the angles of third party enablement and marketing.
EA can pull the marketing and channel the sales without that niche. It's just easier for them to run with. As for the modder interaction we will see there, I will be unsurprised to see after it all that technical focus was the limit of what was taken away by EA (who decide for the devs regardless of interaction with third parties). If anyone at some point wants to prevent a mistake there, you're going to have to provide quantifiable sales pitches for select user types other than the "oldies".

That does not mean that SC5 is going to be bad. It will be good. It will simply be better for more casual and networked user types. It will look good, you will find yourself connected and connectable, you will be able to boast to others and show off, and get additives via Origin.

As for the "online" part, y'all know the focus of EA on Origin. Y'all know the strategic aim. Keep in mind, you don't own what you think you buy.

Well fortunately for us, there are still independent publishers and developers that go after 'niche' markets that are abandoned by the corporate publishers.  Hopefully that will continue to be so, or my days of gaming will be living in the past...as in decades old games I still play.

Agreed. I hope, and suspect, that this will become a stronger factor over the next few years. As much as marketeers of EA and other such companies like to talk at conferences about the importance of catering to newer audiences and strengthening trends in lock-in markets, there is a growing number of generations who have not just grown up with gaming but who will continue to do so - and thus be potential customers for decades to come. With their own habits, preferences, wishes & wants, etc.

It's just a little shame that many of the big names and concepts of games are locked in with those companies and not open to fresh publishers and developers. There will be new stuff over the years, I am a bit concerned though for whether they will be able to breach the established names in many genres.

Back to SC5, fully realising it is still early, I just cannot help putting the trends in this industry next to the strategic targets set by EA. Sofar there is a lot of similarity in marketing and communication between the script that was ran on the road from Civ IV to Civ V and that of SC4 to SC5.

I'm not saying it is bad, just different. "We" are not the target market, which is only logical after all.

For me personally, I am likely to draw my own line at the parts of online connection required on startup and the minefield of balance between solo focus and multiplayer design dependancies. I don't think even EA would be as dumb as to integrate modding markets with origin, but if they were that would be a dealbreaker too here.

Maybe it is silly, but SC4 is one of the few games where I can dig in as deep as I want, without having to take others into account and I can do it wherever I am as long as I have a bit of time and a laptop with me without having to get online and face the storms of social networking and the likes. It's a game you can puzzle with, and in.

I remeber 2k wanted to do the same with civ5... however it got changed and now requires a semi-on internet connection (ie... sorry for the horrible example... but when I left Canada I closed my laptop with steam running - and in Morocco I never had internet for most of my time but could still launch civ5.)

Kitsune made a great point.  I recently purchased a new laptop, and the first thing I made sure of, was the fact that I could install a copy of SC4 onto it and play the game.  Everything else did not matter, because when I take my laptop with me when I go camping with the family, I use it as a bluray player or as a gaming system, and if I need to be able to go online to play SC5, its a no go to me, because I am not going to pay to have wireless access while camping with my family.

I had a case where I was without an internet connection for two weeks, but could still play most of my Steam games, even if I logged in and out of Steam numerous times. The only games I couldn't play were games where multiplayer content made up the bulk of the game content.

I'm not sure how the Origin system works, but if EA are intelligent enough, they would employ a similar system (in fact, most Origin games available - exceptions are BF3 and ME3 - don't even require Origin to be launched!) with most of their games that don't require multiplayer functionality. Considering they're already ripping off Steam, this is probably the best option for them.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 29, 2012, 10:05:40 PM
I had a case where I was without an internet connection for two weeks, but could still play most of my Steam games, even if I logged in and out of Steam numerous times. The only games I couldn't play were games where multiplayer content made up the bulk of the game content.

I'm not sure how the Origin system works, but if EA are intelligent enough, they would employ a similar system (in fact, most Origin games available - exceptions are BF3 and ME3 - don't even require Origin to be launched!) with most of their games that don't require multiplayer functionality. Considering they're already ripping off Steam, this is probably the best option for them.

I've been in a similar situation due to a lightning strike at the local substation for the cable company.  Internet (and several of the cable channels) simply were not available for about a week until the new parts came in.  These are unforeseeable things that will happen no matter how good the 'grid' is.  Any technology can fail.  And it might not be something that can be fixed quickly or easily.  The way I see it, making something depend on not just 1 technology (IE electricity) but multiple technologies is flirting with disaster.

They say technology makes our lives easier...maybe its because I am old enough to remember life before home computers and the internet, but technology sure seems to have complicated things for me.  &mmm

Just saw this in my youtube feed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxTcm1YFKcU

PS: if a mod can embed the video in my post, feel free because I have no idea how to do so.

This game is looking good so far, and the galssbox engine looks interesting. However, I will not be happy if when I buy this game, it is full of technical problems and glitches like SC4 was at first. While I can accept that all games will have errors occasionally, I think that maybe if Maxis had spent a little more time developing SC4, then there wouldn't be as many CTD's and other issues. While many of these bugs and glitches have been solved or patched by the community over the years, from what I've read and experienced over the years, there are still many technical issues with the game, some we can do nothing about. So with this in mind I hope that SC5 will be much more polished in terms of technical issues, which in turn should make life easier for custom content to be implemented into the game. If the game is more technically sound, then it will be more enjoyable to play.

I wonder how the industrial agents know where the residentials zones are, looks random (or at least "go to a house that has a worker").  There also seems to be a disconnect between what industrial building sent the request and where the residential worker goes.  Seems like this combination could lead to industrial buildings that think their agent was successful, but then never get a resident to work there.

Otherwise "smoke effect" really makes me happy.

Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 03, 2012, 08:13:14 AM
I wonder how the industrial agents know where the residentials zones are, looks random

From what I interpreted from the GDC presentation, it randomly follows roads looking for houses.

So, going back for a moment to the issue of online/offline and multiplayer/solo player, what I have come to inderstand so far, from reading blogs and information posted on the SimCity web site, is that when playing online with the simulation running (in either solo or multiplayer mode) whatever you are doing in your city/region will be tracked by the game engine and added to a global "pool" in regard to resources.  In real life, it's true that no city exists in a vacuum...all living beings are dependent on each other to some degree or another and as cities are also living things, so too are they dependent upon each other.  If one raises the price of coal, others are affected, both within the city and in surrounding areas.  The ability to mimic this real life dependency of cities upon each other seems to be what has the folks at Maxis/EA in the throes of ecstasy and so many of us hard-core fans so upset. 

Let's face it, many of us are OCD control freaks of the highest degree and DO NOT want our city creations to change at the whim of third party input, whether it be based in simulations built into the game engine OR actual meddling by other players in the online environment the new game will be played in.  This online global pool of resources, if I understand the concept correctly, is going to force us into actually dealing with issues similar to what RL cities deal with rather just just keeping the game primarily in PAUSE mode, using the money cheat, and building/creating a work of software art rather than attempting to be good mayors.

Think of the majority of gorgeous Mayor Diaries included here on SC4D.  How many of them would survive unblemished if thier mayors unpaused thier games and allowed the simulation to run as programmed for even 15 minutes.  What would happen to 3RR?  What would happen to Antigone?  Many others are just not planned or designed to run in game...they are art and love, not true simulations. 

So for me, the problem becomes, if in the new game I have to log in to retrieve my city from the server, and then can log off ot play offline without interference, will my city be automatically updated ever time I open it online to reflect the changes that have occurred in the global resource pool since last I played?  I am thinking this will be the case.  So the coal plant I built the night before may be out of commission the next day due to other players conributing too much coal to the global resource pool during my absence.  And, if I am able to play and build offline in PAUSE mod, what will happen to my work when my play session is done?  Will I have to upload the changes to the servers to save my work?  Will the simulation require me to unpause before uploading?  Will there even be a way to play in PAUSE mod or will we be stuck running the simulation all the time, whether we want to or not?

This is the biggest question for me, at this point.  I play the majority of my game in PAUSE.  I rarely actually run the simulation.  I use the money cheat in ALL the cities in all my regions...my RL is horribly confined by financial realities, I don't want to be forced into balancing and entire city's budget as a part of "play".

EA/Maxis need to realize that actually running a realistic city is not the goal for most of us hard core fans of the franchise.  Real lfe mayors get paid a lot of money to run thier cities because it's WORK, not play.  If I were interested in being a real life mayor, I'd run for office.  SC4 isn't really even a game, it is, like Will Wright said so well, a toy.  It's a paintbox full of tools we use to create art, and which we also use as a base for creating new tools and ever expanding artistic capabilities.  If that is taken away from us, the new game dies a stillborn death, for this fan.

We're still a long ways out and many things can change between now and when the new game is released, so I remain cautiosly optimistic that EA/Maxis will address the many valid concerns being brought up by fans both on the fansites and in the official website forums.  I don' know if the dev teams read the forums on the fan sites, but I'm sure the do the ones on the official site...why else create them 12-18 months in advance of release if not to gain potentially valuable feedback from potential buyers? 

Perhaps we all need to shift our comments from this thread on SC4D over to the official web site forums?

Lora/LD

Quote from: ldvger on April 03, 2012, 10:13:03 PM
... I'd run for office.  SC4 isn't really even a game, it is, like Will Wright said so well, a toy.  It's a paintbox full of tools we use to create art, and which we also use as a base for creating new tools and ever expanding artistic capabilities.  If that is taken away from us, the new game dies a stillborn death, for this fan.

So I think the game will not be what you expect lora.

These tools were created by the community after scrutinizing all the workings of the game. I see no chance of repeating that go into the new game ... I do not think it will be so modifiable and also because many of selfless that made possible to do it are no longer here.

The intention of the new multiplayer game and one as has been said here ... something like "Call your friends to play with you so we can earn more!"

Below is an excerpt from Game overview on the official website to think a little about how to play. Do so and would like it to be?

"Multiplayer

Work together with friends to build the region for the first time! The cities in your friends' region will directly interact with each other.

Want to be a good neighbor? Send fire trucks to help your friend in an emergency.

Want to be a bad neighbor? Produce mass pollution and watch your friends' Sims Become sick. "

Source: http://www.simcity.com/en_US/game/overview

Speaking from my perspective, my style of gameplay, even (especially) in what I show in my MD, has always had a heavy emphasis on building functional cities/regions.  When I undertake one of those massive roadwork projects in Tarkusian Cities, it's precisely because of the information that the game's traffic data (congestion map, traffic volume map, traffic query tool) that I make the upgrades.  And while I do make an effort to make things look nice, I've never been one just to make eyecandy for eyecandy's sake--I play the game, and I don't try to fake it.  I have used cheats in some region (mostly Moolah, and Zoneria to hide zones), but not always and not super-often, and in my most recent region ("Argentum 2.0"), I've forgone Moolah entirely.  I also don't plop buildings (except for those that are offered as rewards, and civic buildings).

While I can understand the concern over the online aspect--I myself haven't had internet in my apartment for basically the entire 4 years I've lived there (though I will only be living there another 2 months, so that will cease to be a concern) and the worry of a "shutdown" is not unfounded, I think their reasoning behind it has merit, and I don't think anyone can really say that they aren't listening to the community. 

People in the SC4 community have batted the word "realism" around as long as I can remember.  It has a wide variety of meanings to a wide number of people in this community, and often times, it's a primary goal for many of the SC4 players, including MDers.  Quite a number of those folks are ultimately only interested in some sense of "visual realism".  But as far as "realism" with respect the raison d'etre for the game--simulating a city/region and associated behaviors--they're absolutely correct that this bolsters it.  It's also worth noting that there are things out there like "cooperative play" regions, GRV/GRVII, CJ/MD Unions, and, perhaps most importantly, 3RR, that have proven popular and are trying to, within the limited means for doing so within SC4, trying to do the same thing.

Additionally, regarding the cloud-based thing--how many times have folks remarked about SC4 crashing and losing their work?  By all appearances, they've addressed it.

Quote from: NCGAIO on April 04, 2012, 12:49:37 PM
These tools were created by the community after scrutinizing all the workings of the game. I see no chance of repeating that go into the new game ... I do not think it will be so modifiable and also because many of selfless that made possible to do it are no longer here.

While it has been stated that the game won't initially be intended to allow modding, they've more or less confirmed that this would change down the road.  Folks like Ocean Quigley at Maxis are well aware of what the community has done, and have reiterated on multiple occasions that they get that.  Besides, we don't know just what the game will be capable of upon release. 

Of course, if you look at SC4, it didn't really allow modding out of the box either.  Here's how long it was after the game's initial release that certain "milestones" that basically made SC4 into what we now know it to be:

• SimCity 4 released January 14, 2003
• Simtropolis STEX (then "Map Exchange") opens March 31, 2003 (2 months after release)
• Lot Editor released in June 2003 (6 months after release)
• Rush Hour Expansion released September 22, 2003 (9 months after release)
• ilive's Reader reaches stable release in December 2003 (11 months after release)
• BAT Tool released sometime in late-2003/early-2004 (roughly 1 year after release)
• First STEX upload by SimGoober ("Ships At Anchor") released February 24, 2004 (1 year, 1 month after release)
• NAM Version 1 released April 24, 2004 (1 month, 3 years after release)
• Extremely basic RHW Version 1.2 released November 16, 2005 (2 years, 10 months after release)
• Three Rivers Region (3RR) starts at ST on March 12, 2006 (3 years, 2 months after release)

• SC4 Devotion opens in November 2006 (3 years, 10 months after release)

[/b]

• AntigOne by Badsim opened January 17, 2007 (4 years after release)
• First instance of "puzzle-drag technology", Draggable GLR in NAM Version 21, released on June 1, 2007 (4 years, 5 months after release)
• CAM 1.0 released July 31, 2007 (4 years, 6 months after release)
• First RHW with interchange functionality (Version 2.0) released January 1, 2008 (5 years after release)
• RAM Version 1.0 with Single-Track Rail released March 7, 2009 (6 years, 2 months after release)
• NWM Version 1.0 released May 9, 2010 (7 years, 4 months after release)
• First NWM with triple-tile networking (NWM Version 2.0) released September 15, 2011 (8 years, 8 months after release)

As you can tell by this timeline, it took quite awhile year before there started being any real substantive modifications to SC4, on the order of magnitude that we now take for granted.  Heck, there really weren't any custom buildings until a year after release, and no NAM until then, either.  We're posting on a site that didn't exist until almost 4 years after the game was released.  It takes awhile to get the infrastructure in place, and establish a "sense of necessity" for modding.

-Alex

Alex ... What I said was in response to a specific question about the graphic part of the new game and keep saying that there will be nowhere near close to what you can do today in Simcity4. It is enough to make an attentive reading of the material and it is clear that the main objective is the simulation. So all the evasive answers made ​​in this direction and in the same way the reservations made in any graphic material to me leave no doubt.

As for the story about moding SC4 would be good to remember that without the participation of people who made possible what was done ... As DarkMatter creating Datagen or also as the editor Ilive Reader (Things I doubt very much that from happening again) and all that at that time endeavored to discover and reveal the format of the game as Karybdis; sawtooth; Tropod; Teirusu ; Redlotus; Gourou; Kwackwack; GoaSkin; Daeley etc .... that made possible the tools and many of whom are no longer active or who have been here since 2003 as Cogeo. Who knows maybe even the NAM does not exist without them.

All this happened in another time and do not honestly believe that nowadays it repeat itself. What we have in the years following the launch of the game will be what was released by Maxis (EA) and in this case what I said in response to Lora still my opnion!

Here are my thoughts on the NEW SimCity:

1) Really excited for Glassbox and the agents that will make the city simulation much more realistic (reflective of what is ACTUALLY happening in your city) and fun.

2) In response to a post I saw about how many of the great MDs here are played on PAUSE and cheats because simulation would ruin the ART: I never play on pause, but I do use a little money cheat and I do plop businesses and industries to get a realistic look.  Mostly, this is due to the SC4s outdated simulation.  The game just doesn't always reflect what is ACTUALLY happening and the money situation is really messed up (I mean, really I have to PAY for all these private things?  Of course, if I think about it, real cities really do have to do a lot of stretching and cutting).  So going back to point 1...can't wait to really dive into Glassbox.

3) Graphics: At this point, the game graphics ARE NOT final, but what we have seen has just been for the purpose of showing off glassbox.  However, I am concerned that the final graphics will be a little to gamey...it just seems that SC4 era graphics were so realistic (at least compared to subsequent 3D releases of games)...remember Roller Coaster Tycoon?  That game had incredible graphics and very real feeling.  I am very worried about getting a cartoony feeling again.  Obviously SimCity was very simple, 2000 was pixelated, 3000 really was a nice leap but a little fake looking...4 seemed to really start getting close and if you look at some of that ART that people make with their MDs, the cities start to actually look real and some of the custom REAL life buildings are really spot on.  So hopefully Maxis doesn't make it too gamey looking.  I saw that they wanted to bring back some gamey fun...why???  Games like Madden, sports games, etc are still fun and games but every year they try to make the graphics more and more realistic.  I just feel in this age of quick internet flash games and facebook games that a game that will come out and cost in the neighborhood of $50 to $60 should try to be a more serious and rich experience graphically.

4) Internet access necessary for game startup and saving!  This is a potential killer.  For me, SimCity and ANY game I can play without having to be online are lifesavers.  I am totally fine with having to connect to register the game the first time and requiring registration to play (of course I am wary of glitches and the failure and eventually outdating of servers and sites making it impossible to re-register the game in the future when I inevitably have to reinstall on a new computer), but making it necessary to connect to start the game really hurts the mobility of this game.  What I love about SimCity4 is that anywhere I have my laptop with me I can play and expand my region regardless of internet access (for two weeks I had no access in my apartment in China and besides a few books, SimCity was the only game I could play.  If I had this NEW SimCity and been without access for two weeks I would have gone out of my mind...think about it, no access to the internet so you can't stream videos, new, facebook, or look at great SimCity content PLUS you can't even play single-player SimCity!!)  For all the great things happening in game development there is an equal amount of awful stuff.

5) Continuing with the online subject: I think the resources and interaction with the rest of the "world" of players struggle for resources and pollution, etc., is a cool aspect, but is an aspect that I don't think should be forced and required.  Here is what I mean:  Right now it seems the game will have two options - "single-player" and "multiplayer".  However, ALL cities, regardless of how you play your region will be tied to the global economy: cool, this will make the single-player game more fun and social without letting other people directly build in your sandbox.  However, again, what about people who lack internet access or reliable access?  Or what about those people who want a purely single-player game and would rather just struggle for resources against the game?  I think there should be a third option - "TRUE single-player".  No online interaction, no access needed.  I suppose for the game to still have the function of resources and everything, a little more code would have to be written making the game mimic other cities on your own private world.  This just popped to mind: the way the game is set up, a lot of storylines are really limited to being on a populated world...but what about those people that play like they are setting up a brand new world fresh from any human/sim intervention.  Obviously in their case they are only struggling against nature for their resources and not other cities (unless of course there is an alien civilization on this new world).  Well anyways, in conclusion, I wish there were THREE options for gameplay: SINGLE PLAYER, SINGLE PLAYER REGION with global economy, MULTIPLAYER REGION obviously with global economy.

6) Modding.  Everytime I see that modding won't be supported right away I cringe at first, but then I realize (and there is a timeline of modding events in this thread) that we didn't have modding right out of the box with SC4.  I suppose this will make SC"5" struggle in the eyes of us veteran players.  We have grown accustomed to a game so heavily customized with real buildings and mods, etc.  We forget there was a time when we all built VANILLA cities and loved them.  The great hope is that SC"5" out of the box will correct many of things early mods did, such as the bridge slope...NAM...ugh can't really think of those other early and now pretty much essential mods any serious MDer must download before presenting pictures.  MAXIS has made it sound like they understand that modding is what has kept their previous game alive and created this solid community.  So, I assume they will release modding tools a few months after release.

7) Related to the modding subject: Already speculating/wondering?  If this game is wildly successful, will the developers quickly turn around and develop another version in a year or two?  How will that affect modding?  What will happen to us?  Will SimCity become more game than hobby?  It is that Catch-22 that many of us are contemplating.  We want a new game, better road systems, better simulation...but the cost is we must START OVER.  Think of this great dream:  What if we could import our SC"5" into SC"6" and beyond?

Well, there are a few of MY thoughts.  I have mixed feelings about next year's SimCity.  I am super excited to play with glassbox.  I am apprehensive about graphics (I remember a time when a new game meant my eyes would melt out with amazement at the new graphics).  I am concerned about the internet requirement.  I am interested in the resource economy.  I am a little sad to have to move on from my District of Wenzel project (though it will always still be there if SC"5" proves a flop.) ::::::  And there is the silver lining everybody: if SC"5" doesn't move us, doesn't capture our attention and hopes, we always have our SC4 projects and community, so don't go wiping your harddrive clean of SC4 when SC"5" comes out, but heres to hoping SC"5" provides a new base for us to go SimCity crazy!

Quote from: NCGAIO on April 04, 2012, 04:08:41 PM
Alex ... What I said was in response to a specific question about the graphic part of the new game and keep saying that there will be nowhere near close to what you can do today in Simcity4. It is enough to make an attentive reading of the material and it is clear that the main objective is the simulation. So all the evasive answers made ​​in this direction and in the same way the reservations made in any graphic material to me leave no doubt.

As for the story about moding SC4 would be good to remember that without the participation of people who made possible what was done ... As DarkMatter creating Datagen or also as the editor Ilive Reader (Things I doubt very much that from happening again) and all that at that time endeavored to discover and reveal the format of the game as Karybdis; sawtooth; Tropod; Teirusu ; Redlotus; Gourou; Kwackwack; GoaSkin; Daeley etc .... that made possible the tools and many of whom are no longer active or who have been here since 2003 as Cogeo. Who knows maybe even the NAM does not exist without them.

All this happened in another time and do not honestly believe that nowadays it repeat itself. What we have in the years following the launch of the game will be what was released by Maxis (EA) and in this case what I said in response to Lora still my opnion!

Unfortunately I believe you are right.  As it stands, Indie developers are fairly agreeable with making their games moddable, but the big corporations...no, not so much.  After all, they don't make money off the freebies modders release.  Its the whole mindset behind 'downloadable content' on consoles, etc.

And its been 10 years since SC4 was released.  We'va all changed since then, people move on, lives have to be lived.

Just be glad we have what we have with SC4 and SC4Devotion.

For curiosity I'll post this just to ask if I was just me or has anyone else would not find it funny at the point of laughing?

"" shacknews : Besides polluting the region, what are some other things players can do to screw over other players?""

"" Kip Katsarelis's : [Laughs] There are lots of ways, as we're finding out. The more integrated cities become, the more you can screw with one another. Once you're sharing water, power, things like that, you can always cut those things off, cut off workers, or cut off jobs. Crime's another example of something that one city can create—that casino city created all this crime, and it will start spilling over into neighbors' cities. Pollution in many forms—-air pollution, water pollution, things like that--are a couple of obvious ones.""

( Kip Katsarelis's - SimCity Lead Producer Electronic Arts )

Source: http://www.shacknews.com/article/73061/one-on-one-with-simcitys-mayor - by Jason Wilson

If this is the kind of multiplayer that will have the new game so I guess I'm not very interested in it!
Anyone else ...?

Other parts of the interview:

Quote
KK: ...But we understand that some people don't always play games online, and especially with SimCity, you're used to playing by yourself for long periods of time. You can set your game to private and you can play by yourself however you like...

QuoteKK: I don't want to go too much into offline, but since we're asynchronous, you pull your plug out, it's not catastrophic.

Though they don't seem to be going the moisture route.

Quote from: NCGAIO on April 14, 2012, 06:03:11 PM
For curiosity I'll post this just to ask if I was just me or has anyone else would not find it funny at the point of laughing?

"" shacknews : Besides polluting the region, what are some other things players can do to screw over other players?""

"" Kip Katsarelis's : [Laughs] There are lots of ways, as we're finding out. The more integrated cities become, the more you can screw with one another. Once you're sharing water, power, things like that, you can always cut those things off, cut off workers, or cut off jobs. Crime's another example of something that one city can create—that casino city created all this crime, and it will start spilling over into neighbors' cities. Pollution in many forms—-air pollution, water pollution, things like that--are a couple of obvious ones.""

( Kip Katsarelis's - SimCity Lead Producer Electronic Arts )

Source: http://www.shacknews.com/article/73061/one-on-one-with-simcitys-mayor - by Jason Wilson

If this is the kind of multiplayer that will have the new game so I guess I'm not very interested in it!
Anyone else ...?

I gotta agree.  I'll stick with SC4, it does everything I want, without other people dumping their problems on me.

New article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/24/simcity-dev-we-built-this-from-the-ground-up-to-be-a-multiplayer-game) today more or less confirms what we already knew.

QuoteSimCity will require an internet connection each time you boot it up via Origin but, according to Jason, the restriction isn't about DRM. Not even a little bit.

In fact, Tom asked whether the online-only restriction was an anti-piracy measure last week. "That's not why we put it in," said the producer. "It was really a developer decision. It was a design decision to do that from the ground up."

He's referring to SimCity's online component where each city is part of a wider region. Individual cities can help or hinder their neighbours' development. Even when playing alone, you'll get the option to control a landmass of metropolises.

So if for any reason your internet connection is down, or don't have acces to one anyway, no simcity for you  &mmm
On the bright side, the last sentence seems to imply you'll also have the option to not control, or be controlled, by 'a landmass of metropolises'.

Quote from: vortext on April 24, 2012, 10:26:09 AM
New article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/24/simcity-dev-we-built-this-from-the-ground-up-to-be-a-multiplayer-game) today more or less confirms what we already knew.

QuoteSimCity will require an internet connection each time you boot it up via Origin but, according to Jason, the restriction isn't about DRM. Not even a little bit.

In fact, Tom asked whether the online-only restriction was an anti-piracy measure last week. "That's not why we put it in," said the producer. "It was really a developer decision. It was a design decision to do that from the ground up."

He's referring to SimCity's online component where each city is part of a wider region. Individual cities can help or hinder their neighbours' development. Even when playing alone, you'll get the option to control a landmass of metropolises.

So if for any reason your internet connection is down, or don't have acces to one anyway, no simcity for you  &mmm
On the bright side, the last sentence seems to imply you'll also have the option to not control, or be controlled, by 'a landmass of metropolises'.

But I can see them making it where you can't play multiple city tiles with each other as well if you do not play "live" as well.  Right now, I like playing 4 large city tiles(1 farming/low Residential), 1 All Residential(Low, Medium, High), 1 Commercial(low, medium, high) and 1 industrial(medium, high) and the all Residential city feeds the Commercial, Industrial, and assists the farming town with the sims needed to make a large city tile be 90% farm with the rest low density Res(my farm cities usually hover between 20-30K while all Residential tends to go over 1 million within 100 game years).  And when the all Res, Com, and Industrial gets filled, I simply start yet another city like it caddy corner to the other and feed into it as well.

Interesting link about the new SimCity   http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/games/6800989/Preview-SimCity-for-PC

:)

Interesting indeed Catty.

QuoteSingleplayer is an option too, and those with an appetite for massive builds can even manage their own satellite towns that would otherwise be occupied by online gamers, explains Haber.

Finally  ::)

Though it would be nice to see some actual gameplay footage.

Quote from: vortext on April 25, 2012, 11:33:22 AM
Interesting indeed Catty.

QuoteSingleplayer is an option too, and those with an appetite for massive builds can even manage their own satellite towns that would otherwise be occupied by online gamers, explains Haber.

Finally  ::)

Though it would be nice to see some actual gameplay footage.

I have seen that above quote so many times now from so many different people, yet no expanding on the answer at all.  They keep getting asked about that, so you would think they would just come out and say whether or not it is fully possible to play without it and how many "satellite" towns are possible without "occupied by others". 

I really hope they make it like Westwood Studio's did with Command And Conquer, and make it online as well as offline, but there is zero chance I will ever play a game where I have to be connected to their servers just to play a game though.  I do not even allow my electronic devices to remain connected to the internet when I am done using them

Quote from: mike3775 on April 26, 2012, 09:54:00 AM

...  I do not even allow my electronic devices to remain connected to the internet when I am done using them

It is the advice being given to all.

A short time ago even asked permission to share their data ... soon after began to share them and then warned ... now begin to share without saying anything, just hiding the fact so obscure in EULAs to make it difficult to understand.

All this is done with the promise that they are making it easier for the user because they know what is best.

We got to the point of a distributor of games start to say that will change the world.!

Crazy .. crazy world we're living.

I came across this image on the interwebs. Looks like the graphics are coming along. It looks promising.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.gamespotcdn.net%2Fgamespot%2Fimages%2F2012%2F109%2F663025_20120419_screen001.jpg&hash=8ead05980cea5991ae8b61f70b30842bd5eeb507)
source: gamespot http://www.gamespot.com/simcity-2013/images/1686243/?full_size=1 (http://www.gamespot.com/simcity-2013/images/1686243/?full_size=1)

graphics wise, the game looks great.  I do like that it seems they are going back to the 2000 days where you can zone various sized seaports/airports and the game will then fill in every zoned area with a portion of that zoning(I used to love zoning the airports on a hill and have all the tunnels running underneath it), and I love the curving roads.  But if its like the 3000 way where you zone and then *voila* instant building and no variety, its gonna get boring real quick

emm... some kind of odd double deck bridge with a intersection on the underside on the mid right side... interesting.

That's one of the Artists Impressions from the first article about the game that surfaced.

Also: It's got multiple errors and the most fleshed out models you see there are so because they're the original models used to make SC4's buildings.

Here is the official gameplay trailer :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SObs9KnK0Ng&hd=1

Okay, that gameplay trailer convinced me, I am going to pre-order.

While some buildings look too cartoonish for my personal taste, others look much better. And most of the cartoonishness is a result of relatively bland textures. I am very happy that the proportions of all buildings seem to fit.

Another feature I love is the tilt shift view!

If MAXIS keeps promise and make this as moddable as SC4, I think this community can do wonders with the new game! I am already teaching myself the basics of how to create low poly building models with uvw texture unwraping..

-alex

This is another nice video, where you can already see some in-game play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_03Jh5WWU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_03Jh5WWU)

It looks very very promising and I am eager to see how this further develops. I like the way you can drag the roads and plop the buildings. I hope that they will improve the graphics, though.
Keep it up Maxis!

-Matthijs

Good news "you can either play with your friends, or control an entire region by yourslef".

Quote from: xannepan on June 04, 2012, 09:47:31 PMIf MAXIS keeps promise and make this as moddable as SC4, I think this community can do wonders with the new game! I am already teaching myself the basics of how to create low poly building models with uvw texture unwraping.

DLC is screwed if they make this moddable  ("Oh, you aren't going to release on time?  Thats okay, our models aren't ready yet either"). $%Grinno$%

I've been following all the recent developments at E3 and I remain optimistic.

One thing I've been dying to see is highways and interchanges. We got a glimpse of a 3 lane road with Jersey barriers but that had intersections. I'm fine with not seeing them yet... they're probably taking longer to develop. I say let them take their time and get it right.

If you're looking for a good synopsis of E3's SC-related events, the SimCity 2013 news section on Simtropolis is a good place to look: http://www.simtropolis.com/news/_/simcity-2013/

I've just read on one of the outlets that terraforming has been removed. Apparently you won't be able to change the terrain in-game at all.

Well.. If we can't mod it ~ DLC or an other reason,  we still have a fantastic alternative here :-)

Quote from: xannepan on June 05, 2012, 09:32:15 PM
Well.. If we can't mod it ~ DLC or an other reason,  we still have a fantastic alternative here :-)

Yep, and when EA shuts the SC5 servers down in a couple of years, we'll still be able to play SC4.  :)

Quote from: Shark7 on June 07, 2012, 09:09:19 AM

Quote from: xannepan on June 05, 2012, 09:32:15 PM
Well.. If we can't mod it ~ DLC or an other reason,  we still have a fantastic alternative here :-)

Yep, and when EA shuts the SC5 servers down in a couple of years, we'll still be able to play SC4.  :)

Which is why I was at my local online store seeing if I could order another copy of SC4 Deluxe, which I can

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/PC-Games/Sim-City-4-Deluxe-Edition-Game-Classics/1457813/

and noticed they were advertising the new SimCity Limited

QuoteSimCity Limited Edition includes:

New Characters— Protector of SimCity MaxisMan vs. The Evil Dr. Vu and his henchman.
Crime Waves—The Evil Dr. Vu is loose and will create havoc in your city. Normal police have their hands full against this Super Villain. The Evil Dr. Vu will solicit Sims to become his henchmen and carry out his dastardly deeds.
Super Hero HQ – Place MaxisMan's he­adquarters in your city to combat crime and keep your Sims safe. Upgrade with the Turbo Machine garage and The Reticulator landing pad.
Evil Villain Lair – Place Dr. Vu's Lair in your city to unleash a crime wave. As The Evil Dr. Vu commits more crimes, upgrade his lair with a special laboratory and a garage for the Evil VuMobile

()sad()

the full ad

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/PC-Games/SimCity-Limited-Edition/19759110/

-catty

In a way, I may get this game just for the scenario's.  I do miss playing the older versions where there were different scenario's to play and they got tougher

What I have seen sofar doesn't impress me at all. The worksand function of the game will be indeed better, I am sure, but those textures, graphics and visuals of the game, they're not to my liking. They look worse than SC4 and somewhat childish and "lego" to me.
The newest games I play lately are Tropico 4 and The Settlers 7, geeez, that is what I call nice graphics!! I hope that Maxis doesn't use those graphics they have shown sofar, because I will most likely not buy it. I am visual.
But I will surely borrow it from one of my friends or sons (if they get it) first, before I decide to buy or just simply forget it like Sim societies.

Another thing I don't like is the thing with the internet connection, I don't have a connection in my weekend home and neither can get it, unfortunelty, it is there I spend most of my freetime.................and have been creating my bats, regions and plays.

But I am sure somewhat else will come up with something nice in the next year to play around with.

Fred

i wouldnt stress about graphics that much. look at what the community has done to SC4 since it's release. i dont think we use much of the vanilla content at all anymore. all they have to do is release an engine that works well, and the ability to add mods/bats etc, and the community will do the rest over time.

everyone has to remember that Maxis/EA probably will to compare the new game to SC4RH/SC4 Deleuxe Vanilla, not to a '2012-community-spec-Modded-like-crazy-SC4' version.

as said above, the key to the success of this game is in how much they let us play under the hood, and how much we can add to it with community content.

Quote from: jigsaw on June 26, 2012, 12:47:46 PM
as said above, the key to the success of this game is in how much they let us play under the hood, and how much we can add to it with community content.

I don't expect much of that to be allowed, since many game companies now realize that people are willing to pay to download things to make things better.  Look how many recent games all have had that custom download stuff left off the game, but if you buy it at Game Stop, you get it, but buy the game at Best Buy and you don't. 
I have a feeling EA/Maxis is going to go that route with this game as well(in fact it already appears they are since there are two different versions of this game being released, one with all the bells and whistles and the other the plain boring version which any CDL stuff will not apply to since its the generic version and not bells and whistles version)

Quote from: catty on June 25, 2012, 06:08:15 PM

Which is why I was at my local online store seeing if I could order another copy of SC4 Deluxe, which I can

went to see ... $ 49.99 for a game of 2003 ... will be that much of this is E.A. price ?
(Note that not have discount as in the case of SimCity Societies ... that is more recent.)

And to think that just over one year the Steam selling the same game for $ 4.99. I would say that this is ride the wave to maximize profits!

Quote from: NCGAIO on June 26, 2012, 01:53:17 PM

Quote from: catty on June 25, 2012, 06:08:15 PM

Which is why I was at my local online store seeing if I could order another copy of SC4 Deluxe, which I can

went to see ... $ 49.99 for a game of 2003 ... will be that much of this is E.A. price ?

Note that catty's price was for a New Zealand store (where she lives), and also that the New Zealand dollar is currently worth about USD$0.79.

You can currently get SC4 Deluxe from Amazon.com for $11.56 (free shipping on orders over $25).  It's even cheaper than that on eBay.

Quote from: z on June 26, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
...Note that catty's price was for a New Zealand store (where she lives), and also that the New Zealand dollar is currently worth about USD$0.79...

Yes, on top of which the price for buying software in New Zealand is quite high, if you complain to the companies the reason they give is we are a small market and in some cases we are also locked out of buying something from overseas because of it.

&mmm

So from my point of view its not a bad price and as I'm going to cancel my pre-order for SimCity 2013 it works out quite well.

-catty

They have already stated in an article i read that the game will be more mod able then any simcity that they have released to date, just about every rule, agent, unit and map will be mod able to the fullest extent.  However what they haven't touched base on yet is what tools, format and whatnot it will be, and weather or not they will be releasing any type of tool-sets to ease community development and also didn't touch base on if games are modded to any type of degree what that will do to multiplayer, ect, or even if you will be able to play multiplayer if you have moded content.

What concerns me the most is how easily it seems that things can run amunk as well as using up resources, ie water, trees, ect.  Does this mean that we will be waiting some 40 years for trees to grow so that our cities can continue to grow, can we import these resources, does water replenish itself by rain?  Are there ways of dealing with pollution?  I didn't see any mention of mass transits as well, however I did see trains and airports but these seemed more 'region' oriented.  Hopefully as the release date draws near some of these questions will be answered.

It's a LEGO game for me ... and some terrible PR action by EA Games ...
I heard (from my poor Russian TV) about worst (number FIRST) EA GAMES Co., reputation in USA in Year 2011 - is it true ?   
There are many words about nothing, SC2013 is a poor clone CSXL and others ...
May be we'll get interesting lines and history, but LEGO's pictures kill me ...
May be we'll get another SC2013 sites, but ... never with excellent SC4 BATers and MODers ...
Another games - another times ...
Simple flag in Your hands, SC2013 lovers ...
SC2013 - dead monster for me, I saw RRT game with 3D before it ... with very poor final ... 
If You want bury a game - created 3D version with one ...  $%Grinno$%

My own personal view is multi-player and community modding aren't compatible, as you can't have a region where some people have community mods and others don't, the only way it would work is if the mod was approved and released by EA and I'm guessing paid for by us, much as I wanted a new SimCity I don't think this new version is something I want to play, so I'll be sticking with SimCity and Cities in Motion.

-catty

An other way could be that a multiplayer mode runs only without any modded content but DLCs from ea or something like that.. or it could work like in Flight Simulator: if a model was not found on the other users HDD (or SSD :D ) the program will replace the missing one by a stock building with the same dimensions and the same type...

there are many work-arounds possible :thumbsup:

Quote from: Lowkee33 on June 05, 2012, 02:16:46 PM

Quote from: xannepan on June 04, 2012, 09:47:31 PMIf MAXIS keeps promise and make this as moddable as SC4, I think this community can do wonders with the new game! I am already teaching myself the basics of how to create low poly building models with uvw texture unwraping.

DLC is screwed if they make this moddable  ("Oh, you aren't going to release on time?  Thats okay, our models aren't ready yet either"). $%Grinno$%

Nope, I can see a way they'll make money off of the community's work.  Sure you can mod, but all mods have to be uploaded to the Origin server, and you have to pay a fee as an end user to download the mods as DLC.  They'll figure out some way to make it so that only 'official' content can be installed and have the game work.

Alternatively, they make it a subscription service to have unlimited mod download, and same thing, it only works if they make it available.

One thing corporations are good at is figuring out how to squeeze every last cent from their customer base. 

And to think, I'm on optimist.  $%Grinno$% ;)

Perhaps its just me but the more I learn about sc2013, the more 'dumb'ed down it looks.

Quote from: catty on June 28, 2012, 05:07:46 AM
My own personal view is multi-player and community modding aren't compatible, as you can't have a region where some people have community mods and others don't ...

Quote from: Delta ²k5 on June 28, 2012, 06:11:10 AM
An other way could be that a multiplayer mode runs only without any modded content but DLCs from ea or something like that.. or it could work like in Flight Simulator: if a model was not found on the other users HDD  the program will replace the missing one by a stock building with the same dimensions and the same type...

%confuso  As far as I understood the multiplayer mode allows for interactions between the cities that will be played in the same region with a limit of sixteen ... things like buying and selling resources; combination of strategies for growth, etc ...

There is no mention that players can share the same city so what appears on screen in your city will be only with you.

Even why we should not forget that their graphical engine is always subordinate to the simulation which is already limiting what can be displayed. (Limit 2K per tile; 200 K population etc ...)

Now what is not clear what kind of things can be done to interfere in neighboring towns. But now anticipate that if things like that described in the following piece of news bellow... I will not think the slightest grace to laugh

"" shacknews : Besides polluting the region, what are some other things players can do to screw over other players ?""

"" Kip Katsarelis's : [Laughs] >:D There are lots of ways, as we're finding out. The more integrated cities become, the more you can screw with one another. Once you're sharing water, power, things like that, you can always cut those things off, cut off workers, or cut off jobs. Crime's another example of something that one city can create—that casino city created all this crime, and it will start spilling over into neighbors' cities. Pollution in many forms—-air pollution, water pollution, things like that--are a couple of obvious ones.""

( Kip Katsarelis's - SimCity Lead Producer Electronic Arts )

Source : http://www.shacknews.com/article/73061/one-on-one-with-simcitys-mayor (http://www.shacknews.com/article/73061/one-on-one-with-simcitys-mayor) - by Jason Wilson


I think that here too there would be many willing to laugh it ! >:( :thumbsdown:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1S7RT.jpg&hash=761c9219b29c06ecad772cacecc51dff2265eff0)

This is a LEGO  &hlp

 :o I'm really interested now, don't know if I will like in the end, but that shot really got me now.

Quote from: j-dub on July 01, 2012, 06:52:06 AM
:o I'm really interested now, don't know if I will like in the end, but that shot really got me now.

On a positive note, the graphics are beautiful...on a negative note, Origin is ugly.  %bur2$

Isn't that a tram station sitting right in the middle of the track? ???

Just a matter...   is a image of EA of the new game ?


I can not find on the official website ... is part of some video?


Just curious since all textures and the dimensions are different from previous images.

Quote from: z on July 01, 2012, 12:06:30 PM
Isn't that a tram station sitting right in the middle of the track? ???

if you look further up the line there is a second station with a tram going thru it ... not sure how?

if its identical to the one in the foreground then the support posts should have stopped it and its not going to do the customers much good having a tram run over the top of them   ()sad()

&idea . In fact the trams  are made of new type of biologic material with anamorphic transmuter integrator %confuso   that absorbs the passengers as he crosses the station without dropping knock to reconstruct them at their point of destination. Another amazing discovery of the same time of the Glass Box

:(  I do not know if this picture is the game but coincidence or not the same material appears in several images from the official site.

()what()  Looking carefully we will see many other novelties such as junior firefighters ... or maybe giant fire trucks. Semaphores height of buildings ... maybe for the transit of helicopters. Buildings that move away from the flames ... thus avoids the fire. Large trees in the sun transparent ... avoid shading the streets, etc ...

&mmm  In the case of the sun and almost certain that the new world of simcity told with several of them which explains the various different directions of the shadows.

()sad()  The video for the E3 show  carefully analyzed  have a reality in 3D that will be worthy of the best graphics workstation that your's pocket  can pay... unfortunately it is not my case...  Free vision camera and zom linear approximation instead of steps. While it is a bit confused as to eliminate the grid because it seems that she is still there for the placement of buildings.

:-\  Anyway being less than eight months of the launch have not yet seen any clear picture of the game in operation, which prevents me from meeting the repeated calls for pre-purchase these after each demonstration. Who knows paid to name a building!

"$Deal"$  I hope all excited that pre ordered remember to follow all this because it will certainly be reimbursement more difficult  if you do not like the game instead of simply cancel the purchase.

Quote from: NCGAIO on July 02, 2012, 05:44:58 AM
&idea . In fact the trams  are made of new type of biologic material with anamorphic transmuter integrator %confuso   that absorbs the passengers as he crosses the station without dropping knock to reconstruct them at their point of destination. Another amazing discovery of the same time of the Glass Box

Well, if their technology is that far advanced, maybe it's time for EA to produce matter transport devices that collect the information of all elementary particles and their states of your body into one large "Wetransfer" like file, send this to another station which reconstructs your body completely out of dead materials. This would mean you would be murdered every time you go somewehere and again when you go back. But it would not need any tram- train or whatever transportation system.

Quote from: NCGAIO on July 02, 2012, 05:44:58 AM
&mmm  In the case of the sun and almost certain that the new world of simcity told with several of them which explains the various different directions of the shadows.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to calculate a stable orbit for a planet carrying life in a multi solar system? I think the EA people are really brilliant if they indeed succeeded here! This must truly be a game for Terring!

So now please stop fuzzing around at this new brilliant game. I'd say: if you liked LEGO and never felt like detailling further than that this new game will be perfect for you.

I want to see a farm area and see if they have as good of detail as many of the lotters have done.

Quote from: FrankU on July 02, 2012, 06:34:22 AM
... maybe it's time for EA to produce matter transport devices that collect the information of all elementary particles and their states of your body into one large "Wetransfer" like file, send this to another station which reconstructs your body completely out of dead materials.

Where you got that top secret information on this next step of technology transmuter? Are we being spied on?

Quote from: FrankU on July 02, 2012, 06:34:22 AM
..... So now please stop fuzzing around at this new brilliant game. I'd say: if you liked LEGO and never felt like detailling further than that this new game will be perfect for you.

Friend .... I very much appreciate all your work over SC4 but ...

You have your opinion and I have my ... like most who post on the subject ( not exist anything real image of the game running ) ...

So I can not share the opnion that the game is brilliant ... Sorry.

ps: the post about LEGO is not mine so I think that here was mistake.

Greetings.

Well, apparently I should have made my sarcasm a bit clearer. As far as I can see, and that is only in the images that are flying around, the game still looks like candybar-amusementpark-WaltDisneynightmare-legosimplicity (un) realism. In no way it looks like something I'd like to buy. But hey, I'll wait until they finish the stuff. And then some. I have the habit of buying games (the three I actually bought since 1995) when they cost about € 5,-- and have still some people actually playing it.

:thumbsup: Sorry friend ... I did not notice the sarcasm so I replied as above.


/wrrd%& But you have not said where he got the information about our new super ultra plus master transmuter?


  :D  I'll have to report to our superiors!

Now wait just a minute here folks, LEGO is amazing! If I'd gotten a penny for every hour I've spend playing with legos, well, I would have all the time in the world right now to spend on simcity  :D

Anyhow, I admit this screenshot, it looks a bit erm, how to put it, cheap?! Not to mention to obvious mistakes in it. However one thing that has bothered me from the first annoucment is this tilt-shift perspective. For me tilt-shift is just a photographic gimmick, like sepia or black-and-white. Fun to use once in a while but definitely not for an entire game. That said, I can imagine how ten years from now, when the community has released it's modding powers and the tilt-shift is counteracted and many amazing things added, simcity5 will turn out to be a very nice game after all. We just have to practice some patience and in the meanwhile rejoice in sc4!

If you haven't seen it on the site of EA yet, here is a night shot of the new game:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity12l.jpg&hash=51e127da82e2a825302326be50c5408a5472b4f5)

It looks a bit cheap to me, still. For example, look at these pictures:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity2l.jpg&hash=95085c6c3164771b49cb8562c14dab55d5c64f92)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity6l.jpg&hash=e68d33f7d28ce5e66a13cf23d50de00e3ab603c7)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity7l.jpg&hash=017c8bd898321fc96acaafb122fe7df584ca4484)

The pics look nice, but the more they show, the more "kiddy" it seems.

Quote from: mike3775 on July 05, 2012, 12:23:19 PM
The pics look nice, but the more they show, the more "kiddy" it seems.

Not kiddy, but they definitely look like CGI, not realistic.

Real building get dirty and have imperfections...the buildings in these screen shots are just too perfect.

Toyland ... I keep expecting to see Noddy and his little Taxi

You know what, if modding allows, that might actually just well happen! I couldn't draw him out by memory since the show has been off for so long in my RL, but maybe we can see him face down, and even include the whole Noddy shop while we're at it!

Quote from: j-dub on July 05, 2012, 03:46:51 PM
You know what, if modding allows, that might actually just well happen! I couldn't draw him out by memory since the show has been off for so long in my RL, but maybe we can see him face down, and even include the whole Noddy shop while we're at it!

&apls

I think what got me thinking about Noddy was these pictures especially

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity2l.jpg&hash=95085c6c3164771b49cb8562c14dab55d5c64f92)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcitynet.nl%2Fimages%2Fsimcity6l.jpg&hash=e68d33f7d28ce5e66a13cf23d50de00e3ab603c7)

I keep expecting a giant hand to reach down and add something to the model town ... and I know its very early days, but there are no fences anyway in the residential picture just open parkland, it just doesn't look right

-catty

Quote from: catty on June 27, 2012, 03:19:22 AM

Quote from: z on June 26, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
...Note that catty's price was for a New Zealand store (where she lives), and also that the New Zealand dollar is currently worth about USD$0.79...

Yes, on top of which the price for buying software in New Zealand is quite high, if you complain to the companies the reason they give is we are a small market and in some cases we are also locked out of buying something from overseas because of it.

&mmm

So from my point of view its not a bad price and as I'm going to cancel the pre-order for SimCity 2013 it works out quite well.

-catty

Went ahead and bought the SC4D game, it turns out they are importing them from the UK, so its a left-hand version of the game ... which is great   ()stsfd()

Was still   :-\  about whether to cancel my pre-order for SimCity 2013, but EA latest Q&A  here

http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/Community-Interviews-Maxis-Part-1

QuoteMkareha: How will solo region play work? From the trailers, it looks like the regions are composed of a bunch of isolated cities, separated by an automatic flat expressway that connects the cities. The way it looks in the trailers is not realistic at all. Will we have full control in the creation of highways, neighbor connects, modular road systems, etc.?

Lead Designer Stone Librande: Each city is connected to other cities in the region through a combination of roads and railroad tracks. Some centrally located cities may have access to many different connections, while cities located on the fringes of the region may have only one. Players do not have control of placing roads and rail in the region, but they have complete control over the road and rail networks within their city boundary.

finally made the decision for me, the store wanted to know why I was cancelling the pre-order ... so I told them why and that I preferred to buy SC4D instead.

-catty

Quote from: catty on July 19, 2012, 11:47:49 AM

Quote from: catty on June 27, 2012, 03:19:22 AM

Quote from: z on June 26, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
...Note that catty's price was for a New Zealand store (where she lives), and also that the New Zealand dollar is currently worth about USD$0.79...

Yes, on top of which the price for buying software in New Zealand is quite high, if you complain to the companies the reason they give is we are a small market and in some cases we are also locked out of buying something from overseas because of it.

&mmm

So from my point of view its not a bad price and as I'm going to cancel the pre-order for SimCity 2013 it works out quite well.

-catty

Went ahead and bought the SC4D game, it turns out they are importing them from the UK, so its a left-hand version of the game ... which is great   ()stsfd()

Was still   :-\  about whether to cancel my pre-order for SimCity 2013, but EA latest Q&A  here

http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/Community-Interviews-Maxis-Part-1

QuoteMkareha: How will solo region play work? From the trailers, it looks like the regions are composed of a bunch of isolated cities, separated by an automatic flat expressway that connects the cities. The way it looks in the trailers is not realistic at all. Will we have full control in the creation of highways, neighbor connects, modular road systems, etc.?

Lead Designer Stone Librande: Each city is connected to other cities in the region through a combination of roads and railroad tracks. Some centrally located cities may have access to many different connections, while cities located on the fringes of the region may have only one. Players do not have control of placing roads and rail in the region, but they have complete control over the road and rail networks within their city boundary.

finally made the decision for me, the store wanted to know why I was cancelling the pre-order ... so I told them why and that I preferred to buy SC4D instead.

-catty

Well, that's dumb. We don't get a whole region to ourselves? We just get a city? What's the point?

I knew this game would end up sucking more and more as more gets out.

The next "Community Interviews Maxis: Part 2" is now out

http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/Community-Interviews-Maxis-Part-2

and its confirmed ... no terraforming

QuoteMkareha: Will there be terraforming in the sense of a "god mode" like there was in SimCity 4?

Creative Director Ocean Quigley: No, all of the terraforming in this SimCity is going to be at the civil engineering scale, and will be the natural consequences of laying out roads, developing zones, and plopping buildings.

()sad()

 :thumbsdown:  Not single-player independent
:thumbsdown:  Not terraforming
:thumbsdown:  Not views regions
:thumbsdown:  Not control intercity transport
:thumbsdown:  Not freedom to create the city as want

>:(  Anyway ... No No No. ..
:-\ To sum it all is not Simcity, is something like CXL+societies maybe ...

:satisfied:  Good for those who like the genre!

Well, there goes my preorder...

Xander

The only kid that was actually excited about this game, just told me to cancel his pre-order since he doesn't like it after reading that.

This is turning into kid version of Simcity more and more.  All they need to allow now is for people to paint the buildings any color they want

Quote from: mike3775 on July 24, 2012, 02:17:14 PM
All they need to allow now is for people to paint the buildings any color they want

That might actually be pretty cool feature.  ::)

It does not fit in my head why they would intentionally restrict the game, when freedom to build and invent was the force behind it's predecessors success? I am actually quite sure that EA don't even expect "traditional" SC4 players to play this product. They are more likely after new players, with different kinds of preferences. It still isn't a smart move, but unfortunately it seems to be the move they are making.

Anyway, I made my decision: no SC-13 orders from me. I will (sadly) expect it to fail badly. Maybe there are lot of peoples who wish to play that type of game, but I am not one of those.

And this too...

Quote
German Community: How large can maps get and how many people can live in one city? Are there any performance issues?

SL: We are still experimenting with the size of the cities, but our maps are comparable to a medium-sized map in SimCity 4. Also keep in mind that cities are connected together in a region, and the Sims will travel back and forth between cities throughout the day.

There actually downsizing the game too...

this seems appropriate:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F23947208.jpg&hash=d00d1b4d8d12ea593d3177753cbf10d441a5fb33)

(yes, I just made this)

Xander

Not overly disappointing as I've kept my expectations as low as I thought possible without seeming overly pessimistic. I understand that they were never going to get rich off of us buying the game but they would have plenty of money to make off of communities like ours keeping the new game relevant and exciting for the long term if they had decided to go that route. Perhaps they're planning on us keeping SC4 selling until it enters the public domain in 2123  :D

I hope the new game at least gets a name that reflects what they're making and not a deceptive "SC5"

It's becoming more and more apparent that EA is only interested in catering to the FarceBook crowd, and doesn't give a crap about the hundreds of thousands of loyal Sim City fans who have waited semi-patiently through a decade of abandonment for a worth heir to the "World's Greatest City Simulator" crown.

Their blogs and forums are loaded with complaints from loyal fans, and EA continually turns a deaf ear to them all.  What's worse is their "You spoke, we listened!" (http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/Community-Interviews-Maxis-Part-2) spiel - providing multiple 'answers' for a few favored sheep while completely ignoring the wailing masses.

Quote from: Electronic ArtsAll hail the almighty god Dollar!!

I think we should try something a little stronger ..

Quote from: Twyla on July 25, 2012, 04:36:35 PM
It's becoming more and more apparent that EA is only interested in catering to the FarceBook crowd, and doesn't give a crap about the hundreds of thousands of loyal Sim City fans who have waited semi-patiently through a decade of abandonment for a worth heir to the "World's Greatest City Simulator" crown.

Their blogs and forums are loaded with complaints from loyal fans, and EA continually turns a deaf ear to them all.  What's worse is their "You spoke, we listened!" (http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/Community-Interviews-Maxis-Part-2) spiel - providing multiple 'answers' for a few favored sheep while completely ignoring the wailing masses.

Quote from: Electronic ArtsAll hail the almighty god Dollar!!

And now you know why I've all but given up hope on this, and will stick with SC4.  I was looking forward to a new SC game, now...not so much.()sad()

One of the things that more annoying me is the lack of wall-to-wall buildings... Look, if you find ONE that not surrounded by large green area or park, you will get a coin.

G's! What's with all the memes?
(https://i.chzbgr.com/imagestore/2012/8/1/bf0ed19e-a24f-4c4b-9e82-c2f5109e31e2.jpg)
If the new SC4 can allow freeform road and highway options though, then I'll be all over it.

Within the own  city maybe , but what links the various cities will always be established through the game, I see no way around it in the way of conceptualizing the new Simcity since it is essential to adapt to multiplayer and realistic simulation.

Earlier in this thread I said that I am cautiously optimistic about the new game. I still try being open minded but it is getting harder and harder. %wrd

EA announced a bunch of stuff about the new SimCity at Gamescom a few minutes ago, one of which is that it it will come to Mac as well (not really surprising to be honest).
I'll edit this post further as more info about it comes online.

Xander

Is there any video footage available yet? Wether from the press conference or, better yet, from actual gameplay?

Nevermind, here's the press conference; linkie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e191O9GY9U0#). Simcity starts at 19:06

Just gotta love how they manage to contradict themselves.

QuoteOur fans demand a deep, single-player experience and that's what we delivering. But that experience is set within the context of a wider, connected world.

So yeah, they're basically not delivering a deep, single-player experience than, are they?!  :thumbsdown:

Also an additional pic I've found.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F729348%2Fthumbs%2Fo-SIMCITY_GAMESCOM_DIGITALDELUXE_FRENCHSET-570.jpg%3F1&hash=dbf19e69827befdb09f99d486b60ef49dfacecd0)

Don't know what they were thinking with this city lay-out but at least it appears there'll be some w2w action going on. For which you'll have to pay extra, of course. 
Also, did I already mention I really, really don't like the tilt-shift focus?! Seriously wonder if I'll ever get used to it. . &mmm

True fans of SimCity are being abandoned and despised by Maxis.

They think we're dumb and naive, come see the new SimCity (2013), see how it is beautiful and wonderful, come in online slavery and its DLCs, you will like. (Gamescom, PAX, beta version, etc.)

SimCity (2013) doesn't deserve to have this name. It is a game with several limitations that didn't exist in SimCity 4.

This game has several negative points that Maxis despises and doesn't want to fix them, in other words, as one of the Maxis developer nicknamed Maxis_MD said: End of Story ("we will change nothing in the new SimCity").

Here are the negative points of the new SimCity (2013) more mentioned in forums of SimCity fans are:

- No option 100% offline with single player mode.
- Always-on connection to Origin (EA servers).
- The presence of empty spaces not editable (useless empty spaces) with automatic road connections.
- Absence of terraforming.
- Absence of farms.
- Not being able to save your maps on the hard drive (you will not be able to reload the city to a stage prior to disasters).
- Road connections placed in a fixed and pre-determined location in the map.
- Airport City (the city is only one International Airport, occupying the entire map 2x2km).
- Automatic road connections.
- Player doesn't have complete control over the zoning by population density (almost automatic zoning).
- Size of the maps is 2km by 2km (small maps).
- Not being able to control the regional transport.
- Modding restrictions.

It's a real shame, too, because they seem to have nailed the simulation aspect with Glassbox (which I think is ingenious). There was so much potential in a game using that engine. That and the roads within the cities and the range of transport options available (which seems to be about right). But no control over the region?

Lost sale.

Maxis doesn't want to hear SimCity fans, simply ignores them and it says: try the new SimCity (2013), see how it is fun and wonderful.

They create several limitations within the game; they want us to feel all this fun. This is absurd.

Whoever buys this game will be accepting all this, so I will not buy it and I advise others to do the same.

Just missing money in their pockets, they will respect us.

for the record im still on the fence with all the news i hear about the new game. will i buy it? yes, will it be a true replacement of SC4? not sure. am i concerned? a little. i was one of the first people to catch on about a sequel, and like a lot of us i have been waiting with baited breath for more concise answers.

but in defence of maxis, if you look across all the community boards the game is being ripped apart and the developers have been tied up and shot.

it's not complete yet, it's going to be different, and yes it appears it has strayed away from what we want. all in all i think the community is reacting like a bunch of republicans at an obama convention (a lot of freaking out, without the complete picture, and just hating it immediately living on small amounts of information we have been given).
;D

im not a fan of the concept of always being online, and forced multiplayer, but most ppl these days stay online almost non-stop etc, so i dont really get why it's seen as apocalyptic negative change.

i think in general we all need to chill out, wait and see, THEN tear it apart to analyse.

the way modern game companies release products has changed, and the companies make their products has changed.

going back to SC4, the first version was simple, then a fantastic expansion was released to give us the base of what we all love today. i think this is what the company is planning to do again. they will release SC13, in a similar fashion to what SC4 Vanilla was, and 12 months later, the real expansion will be released.. as a form of RH like proportions.

do i trust maxis? i dont know. but it's to early to execute them for a crime they have not yet committed.

we have had 9 yrs to manipulate SC4 in new directions, and it's going be difficult to start again on a new direction. i hope they have some positive surprises to show us in the near future. it will be hard for a lot people in the communities to start from scratch, and to re-learn and remake. millions of hours have been invested in SC4, and i respect that.

im not too impressed by their apparent lack of 'listening to the real fans' that a lot of people are saying. i think they are, but we will be last people they speak to, because we will ask the hardest question, the deepest questions, and the most complex questions. if they reveal anything deep, complex, and huge to us it will spread like wildfire, and could be more harmful than good. i understand their thinking i believe... im sure when the time is right, we will have the most in-depth Q&A they will ever give an audience, it's just not ready to do so yet.

it's a no-brainer to them if they dont let us Mod/Bat etc, it will fail.

btw, i bet more of you buy the game than you realise. i bet at least half of you that say no now, will say yes later... just remember the forums will remember  %wrd

and i have a gut feeling some of the heavyweights of the communities are already working on the game. silence is deafening....... ;)

I think the the fact that EA cannot be trusted plays a huge part in the game bashing. I mean, knowing EA, they will give you access to the modding tools ... as €25 DLC on top of the game's base price. EA doesn't do free, simple as that.
As for the always online thing, well Ubisoft tried it as an anti-piracy measure and they got hammered hard for it (rightfully so), not to mention it only increased piracy as it proved to be more of a hassle for legitimate buyers, while those who pirated could play without issues. All of that aside, my main gripe with always-online type games is this: what happens if your connection fails? If there's no possibility for offline saves, that's a huge problem. Or what if EA's server breaks down? Then SC2013 is basically a €60 paperweight.

The thing that bugs me most though is that the glassbox engine has huge potential, and they're limiting the game's potential by excluding terraforming (paid DLC?), only letting you use medium tiles, etc.

All of that aside, I did sign up for the beta. I'm curious to try it out for myself, but it's not worth €60 for me, which is why I cancelled my preorder.

Xander

One thing is already certain; the new SimCity (2013) will not have 100% offline mode. A Maxis developer said the game was built to be online, it will not change.

Unfortunately, EA requires that all their games are online and this requirement will not change for the new version of SimCity.

Other negative aspects of the game may change, but the game will continue to have only the online mode.

Quote from: WC_EEND on September 03, 2012, 03:21:34 AM
I think the the fact that EA cannot be trusted plays a huge part in the game bashing. I mean, knowing EA, they will give you access to the modding tools ... as €25 DLC on top of the game's base price. EA doesn't do free, simple as that.

That's not always true.  In SC4, the Lot Editor and the BAT were added after the fact, and they've always been free.

Quote from: z on September 03, 2012, 01:49:57 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on September 03, 2012, 03:21:34 AM
I think the the fact that EA cannot be trusted plays a huge part in the game bashing. I mean, knowing EA, they will give you access to the modding tools ... as €25 DLC on top of the game's base price. EA doesn't do free, simple as that.

That's not always true.  In SC4, the Lot Editor and the BAT were added after the fact, and they've always been free.

True, but back then DLC was nowhere near as big as it is now, mainly because the consoles back then (PS2 and first Xbox) didn't have anywhere to save any DLC.
Back then expansion packs came on discs and added a lot more value than just for instance new clothes for your character which sells for €5.
So EA didn't milk the consumer yet back then (notable exception being The Sims) anywhere near as much as they do now.

Xander

For me, SimCIty2013 is dead already .. however, SC4 still keeps me entangled .. after a year of absence (dure to RL reasons), I'm at the moment re-installing my plugin folder and looking forward to play this game. SO from my point of view - no need for a "new" SimCity as long as this wonderful modding community stays alive.

Quote from: z on September 03, 2012, 01:49:57 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on September 03, 2012, 03:21:34 AM
I think the the fact that EA cannot be trusted plays a huge part in the game bashing. I mean, knowing EA, they will give you access to the modding tools ... as €25 DLC on top of the game's base price. EA doesn't do free, simple as that.

That's not always true.  In SC4, the Lot Editor and the BAT were added after the fact, and they've always been free.

because back then Maxis had words to say. Now it's almost they doesn't exist. It's EA that has all the right today. And as far as i remember EA always made non-free additional content.

This is always a doubt about the dark bowels on start modding of the Simcity

Who reads the text Karybdis (below) has the impression that EA had another thought in that era and helped  as can  (in my opinion correctly)   to keep the game interesting and updated.

Logico that now with digital distribution, their interests on the monetization of products distributed, not leave space for that to happen again.

Quote
Posted 02 September 2008 - 04:23 PM
As one of the people that originally started on this, I can answer specifically.

EA gave us complete permission to do any modifications that we want. In fact they cheered us on in person, and gave us as much info as they could without breaking NDA's or giving up company secrets. Several modders have been under Non disclosure agreement with EA specifically for the purpose of furthering file modifications, and a bunch of us (myself included) beta tested the BAT when it was being made.

Yes, it is perfectly legal in every way. But sorry, you're not going to get any document saying so. These are our personal emails and chat logs with them.

We have talked to them about modding the EXE by the way, but they said they couldn't give us the source code currently due to legal reasons. Modding the exe would be done via dll plugins which can be made, and would be legal if done.

The only thing they remotely have a problem with is the naming of SimMars expansion (which EA employees call "That other Mars simulator" in order to maintain legality)

If you need more proof, EA paid thousands of dollars to fly us modders to San Fransisco in order to learn more about the game code... I doubt they would do that if they considered it illegal.

source:Legal Status of Sim City 4 mods (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/25824-legal-status-of-sim-city-4-mods/#entry695104)

Quote from: Netuno on September 03, 2012, 01:33:14 PM
Other negative aspects of the game may change, but the game will continue to have only the online mode.

And that right there is the main reason I will never buy this game.  Like someone else stated, if I lose the internet, I can't play the game.  Where is the fun in that?

I like that I can install SC4 on my laptop and take it with me when I go to school and have 3 hours to kill between classes every Tuesday and Thursday, but I won't be able to do that at all with this game

The reception to the new Simcity seems to be negative, and I have to agree. When the game was first announced I was optimistic but certainly had a lot of concerns too. As more and more details have emerged I have been more and more disappointed by this game.

Quote from: Rady on September 03, 2012, 02:14:22 PM
For me, SimCIty2013 is dead already .. however, SC4 still keeps me entangled .. after a year of absence (dure to RL reasons), I'm at the moment re-installing my plugin folder and looking forward to play this game. SO from my point of view - no need for a "new" SimCity as long as this wonderful modding community stays alive.

I have to agree with Rady here. I've recently fired up SC4 again after a 6 month absence, and the first thing that hit me was just how good SC4 really is. If the SC4 communtiy stays alive, there is no need for a new game - the SC4 community has added so much to the original game that the vanilla SC4 is barely recognizable anymore.

All,

I was really dis-appointed that SC4 does not work well with my new Quad4/Video card, so I purchased Cities Xl12 to get my self use to the new format that SC13 is emulating.    Needless to say, I am not happy with the options that come with Cities Xl12 so I put away my new PC and going back to the old PC to play SC4.  I was holding out for SC13 with hopes that SC13 will be 10x better that Cities XL12 but based on the comments above, I am not sure. 

I absolutely love the feature of SC4 with the multi-map connections that allow one to expand their cities to the hearts content.  Also, I am NOT A FAN of on-line as this opens the door for virus and other nasty things that get snuck in un-benounced to one's self. 

It really dis-appointed me that I had to pack away my new PC as I could not play SC4 on it and was holding out for SC13.  I am still keeping my fingers crossed that Maxis is reading these comments and taking notes of options to include/delete.

dyoungyn

SimCannot 2013:

- You cannot play in offline mode
- You cannot create their own road connections between cities (automatic road connections).
- You cannot put a road connection wherever you want.
- You cannot save your maps on the hard drive.
- You cannot have complete control over the zoning by population density (almost automatic zoning).
- You cannot control the regional transport.
- You cannot modify the empty space next to their cities.

^ Somehow, the above reminds me of that one cable TV commercial, in fact, those facts ^ are almost tempting enough to make a bold animated text video about SC4. I however am still curious about trying the game though, but still, it's just not the same, and I'm afraid it will never be. I mean what was EA thinking! The whole Origin thing, is why I didn't buy Mass Effect 3 on the PC. They need to accept the fact STEAM beat them to the market, Origin is just something else that takes up space, and nothing drives me to dl-ing that! Here EA had the potential for greatness, but their not looking to the best interest of their consumers, and it's a shame, because Maxis made it look a lot better.

In all honesty, I'd buy the new SimCity if it weren't for that forced Origin connection stuff...that is the only thing preventing me from buying the game.  And so long as that is the case, I will not buy the game, lost sale for EA/Maxis.

Hi Guys

If you haven't come across this interview by now, then I would really recommend taking the time to read it

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/simcity/b/pc/archive/2012/07/06/interview-a-new-multiplayer-focus.aspx?PageIndex=2

()sad()

From that interview:

QuoteThe other city is really focused on harvesting coal and resource gain. That city's going to look different, play different – they're actually playing this resource-management game where they're building coal mines, and they're either going to sell that coal on the global market, trade it with other players, or turn it into manufactured goods. They'll be able to smelt it into metals or use it in their coal plants.

Coal?  Coal?

Welcome to the 20th century.

And I just started reading... ::)

Quote from: z on September 27, 2012, 03:40:04 PM
From that interview:

QuoteThe other city is really focused on harvesting coal and resource gain. That city's going to look different, play different – they're actually playing this resource-management game where they're building coal mines, and they're either going to sell that coal on the global market, trade it with other players, or turn it into manufactured goods. They'll be able to smelt it into metals or use it in their coal plants.

Coal?  Coal?

Welcome to the 20th century.

And I just started reading... ::)

They just officially put the final nail in the coffin for me to ever purchase this game.  I hope Maxis and EA have a flop on their hands with this game now

I missed this at the beginning of the interview:

QuoteWant to create a college town? Maybe an industrial wasteland? The new SimCity encompasses these archetypes and many more. They all serve an important purpose in the new multiplayer system in which towns work together to share resources and build "great works" together.

So this is basically an admission that the smaller tile size allows you to build only towns.  Despite the name of the game, no more cities! $%Grinno$%

That mention of "archetypes" has more than a flavour of the late unlamented Sim City Societies. We don't need that again.

Over the years there have been many versions of SimCity but they've all had one exciting thing in common: coal power plants. Now I don't know if there could possibly be something more exciting than that in SimCity but if there was it would certainly be finding coal to put in your coal power plants and then having a whole city built around the (high-tech, eco-friendly and forward-looking) wonders of coal power plants.

Also, it would be nice if they would stop saying things like "yes, you can play single-player, but actually it's not really single player" and continue emphasize what they want us to be doing in their multiplayer world. In my SimCity it's my world I'm creating, that's the point.

This is a simple fact... EA is a for profit company and therefore have to maximize every opportunity to make money.

Transform the Simcity into a social MMO is one of these opportunities and therefore nothing will make them change their route.

What upsets are attempts to deceive the fans of the current  game model and rely on them to boost sales.

The latter is an insult to intelligence ....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcity.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Ftraffic-small.gif&hash=bc4432663131db147e34f9e842930a9f878bf539)

I wondered why they would provide a gif instead of a video ... If you are curious enough only save the GIF and dismantle it to see the real "HEAVY TRAFFIC" ...

I do not want to always be pending about negotiations with the other players. I play when I want and not when the "virtual market" requires.
If SimCity hasn't a complete single-player experience I'm not interested.

Quote from: noahclem on September 28, 2012, 01:37:22 AM
In my SimCity it's my world I'm creating, that's the point.

Totally agree.

Quote from: noahclem on September 28, 2012, 01:37:22 AM
Also, it would be nice if they would stop saying things like "yes, you can play single-player, but actually it's not really single player" and continue emphasize what they want us to be doing in their multiplayer world.

Exactly, that's what I dislike the most too. In every press release or interview it's reassured Maxis understands very well SimCity is a solo game par excellence and the latest installment will be no exception. Except you're always part of an online, global marketplace, so there you go.  :bomb:

And this 'archetype' systems seems horrible as well. 

QuoteQ Are these archetypes something you select at the outset, or do they arise out of the way that you play your city?

A We're definitely going to surface those city types to player up front. You're going to be able to pick your path as you play along. Some of it is determined by your starting city.

Guess it should be rebranded SimPrefabNeighbourhood. :angrymore:

"We are building a multiplayer experience. That is our goal. We want players to play together. We're making the missions, adding leaderboards, things like that. This is a collaborative online experience. We're going to be delivering content like challenges as the game is live. That's the experience we're after. " :bomb:

And that 'archetype' stuff.  :angrymore:

Damn it all. I remember seeing the first images from the game and being so excited. But every word I read about the actual game play is crushing my soul more and more.

So get ready ... after tomorrow you will be able have her totally crushed by new videos !


%bur2$   - ANTICIPATION BUILDER: LIVE BROADCAST MAXIS - (http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/anticipation-builder-maxis-live-broadcast)  %bur2$

Quote from: z on September 27, 2012, 03:40:04 PM
From that interview:

QuoteThe other city is really focused on harvesting coal and resource gain. That cities going to look different, play different – they’re actually playing this resource-management game where they’re building coal mines, and they’re either going to sell that coal on the global market, trade it with other players, or turn it into manufactured goods. They’ll be able to smelt it into metals or use it in their coal plants.

Coal?  Coal?

Welcome to the 20th century.

And I just started reading... ::)

Coal.......The reason why it's coal is because coal supplies 70% - 80% of all of the electricity for the U.S. They [EA and probaly Maxis] must've got inspired by that fact and decided to put coal as one of the most important trading resources for the game. Also the fact that coal is the lifeblood for certain economies, like my region's. The East Tennessee, East Kentucky, and most importantly all of West Virginia. Coal mines, coal power stations, railroad companies, etc; the railroad near my house is a main artery for coal trains. A 100+ car coal train passes near my house every 30 minutes - 1 hour.

Quote from: catty on September 27, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
Hi Guys

If you haven't come across this interview by now, then I would really recommend taking the time to read it

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/simcity/b/pc/archive/2012/07/06/interview-a-new-multiplayer-focus.aspx?PageIndex=2

()sad()

As stated in that interview under the question of Singleplayer-Offline mode:

"Yeah. We're definitely catering to different playstyles. We know that there are quite a few SimCity players who do want to play alone. When you create your region, you could just set it to private and play any one of those cities by yourself. You're jumping around between the cities and playing that way. And later on, if you want to invite a friend, you can invite a friend to your game if you'd like.  We're going to have a matchmaking system, so you can just hit play and we'll put you in a region with other players, and you can play that way as well"

Or in other words:

List of Pre-Order bonuses - potental DLCs after Simcity 2013's release in Feb. 2013:

Terraforming DLC : $20.00
Singleplayer / Offline mode DLC : $30.00
Bridge Design Selection (as in SC4) DLC : $15.00
Elevated Roadways/Railways DLC : $25.00
You Drive It Mode : $40.00
Sandbox Mode for Singleplayer/offline DLC : $50.00

But in my opinion, these are the parts of SC2013 that I love:

Actual animations of cars and trucks pulling into and out of parking lots/garages or driveways. Better animations of crimes happening in the city. A modular building system, as in you can expand existing buildings by placing a few stuff on the building. Passenger trains pull over to what looks like a 3rd/4th track when it stops at a station, instead of creating a traffic jam of trains that sometimes occur in SC4. CURVED ROADWAYS AND RAILWAYS!!! Finally, it has multiplayer that most of us can appreciate in some way or another.

If I am reading the above correctly, it could cost approximately over $100.00 just to play SC20313 single player mode.  WAY TO MUCH if you ask me.  Why can't it be all-in-one lise the past Sim City games.  Also, will one be able to build in between cities i.e. farming, industrial, etc like with SC4?

Quote from: Monorail Master on October 03, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Coal.......The reason why it's coal is because coal supplies 70% - 80% of all of the electricity for the U.S. They [EA and probaly Maxis] must've got inspired by that fact and decided to put coal as one of the most important trading resources for the game. Also the fact that coal is the lifeblood for certain economies, like my region's. The East Tennessee, East Kentucky, and most importantly all of West Virginia. Coal mines, coal power stations, railroad companies, etc; the railroad near my house is a main artery for coal trains. A 100+ car coal train passes near my house every 30 minutes - 1 hour.

Try 42% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States).  I still don't see any appeal in playing SimCoalmine, especially for over $100. All this "archetype" talk reeks of SCS2  %wrd

Quote from: dyoungyn on October 03, 2012, 08:17:59 AM
If I am reading the above correctly, it could cost approximately over $100.00 just to play SC20313 single player mode.  WAY TO MUCH if you ask me.  Why can't it be all-in-one lise the past Sim City games.  Also, will one be able to build in between cities i.e. farming, industrial, etc like with SC4?

Welocome to the new way of gaming, the DLC era.  More and more games are going this route and eventually everything will be this way.
(and they wonder why piracy is also going up on video games)

Quote from: Monorail Master on October 03, 2012, 06:44:18 AM

List of Pre-Order bonuses - potental DLCs after Simcity 2013's release in Feb. 2013:

Terraforming DLC : $20.00
Singleplayer / Offline mode DLC : $30.00
Bridge Design Selection (as in SC4) DLC : $15.00
Elevated Roadways/Railways DLC : $25.00
You Drive It Mode : $40.00
Sandbox Mode for Singleplayer/offline DLC : $50.00

You forgot this:

- Modding tools: $25/€25
- Plugins unlocker: $15/€15

;D

Quote from: WC_EEND on October 03, 2012, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: Monorail Master on October 03, 2012, 06:44:18 AM

List of Pre-Order bonuses - potental DLCs after Simcity 2013's release in Feb. 2013:

Terraforming DLC : $20.00
Singleplayer / Offline mode DLC : $30.00
Bridge Design Selection (as in SC4) DLC : $15.00
Elevated Roadways/Railways DLC : $25.00
You Drive It Mode : $40.00
Sandbox Mode for Singleplayer/offline DLC : $50.00

You forgot this:

- Modding tools: $25/€25
- Plugins unlocker: $15/€15

;D

You forgot the most important thing:

To them: "Singleplayer is by setting up your own private server and play by yourself."
What they really mean: Private SC2013 server = $10/ week. Just like in Battlefield 3 -_-

No wonder why they're voted as the "Most Hated and Worst Corporate Company in all of the U.S. as of Late-March 2012"

In case those are wondering "Do you have any proof Matt?" Here it is ::  http://kotaku.com/5899092/worst-company-in-america-ea-says-big-tobacco-must-be-relieved-it-wasnt-nominated  The URL is self-explanatory.

It really is amazing that after all that has been released still has hopes of having modding or single-player for the new game either way!


What is happening is the fulfillment of guidelines implemented by Publishers / Distributors for its new business model.

Quote
"The game is built for us to be Able to add content all the time, so Consumers know there's something new there," he said. More than anything, players like to learn about the game while they're playing it, so adding clear channels for in-game communication is crucial for boosting engagement and player Eventually, monetization. "

and continues ...

Quote
"The [promotion] outside the game is important, but what really matters is the real-estate Themselves in the games," said Segerstrale.

These channels allow developers to connect Also all of Their existing online games via the network of cross-promotions and other interconnected social services. If all of the company's games link to each other in some way, digital publishers will be Able to Ensure That All of Their titles get the exposure They need. "

source: EAs Segerstrale Developers (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/168736/EAs_Segerstrale_Developers_might_need_to_switch_focus_from_retailers_to_players.php#.UGzKAJjA8xI)

Just as is happening today, then it is foolish to imagine they will relinquish all planning unless the market response is strongly negative."

But as I said at the beginning it seems people read who understand and believe that everything will change in some point.

Well ... this and the result. :'( A very easy game to play and plenty of room for upgrade ( DLC )




$%Grinno$% Special attention to roads and options of transport. $%Grinno$%


??? A curiosity ... here had maxis invitation to attend the launch of the videos next week?

Some of that looked cool. But I don't want to buy add-ons piecemeal. I want all of it in one package.

I have to admit, that made a real good first impression, where as we have NWM with turning lanes. Someone said there were no highways though, but that video almost looked like an AVE-6 transitioning into a RHW-6, when you got out of town.

Quote from: j-dub on October 05, 2012, 08:38:01 PM
I have to admit, that made a real good first impression, where as we have NWM with turning lanes. Someone said there were no highways though, but that video almost looked like an AVE-6 transitioning into a RHW-6, when you got out of town.

That is correct, no highways.

I recently hammered Maxis about their lack of realism, especially concerning the transportation networks. Did you see the 1 tile 90 degree rail curve in the latest gameplay video? Even SC4 does not have that!

Believe it or not, Maxis actually got back to me about my comments, essentially saying "We're working on it."

While its good to know they're listening to the community, I fear it may be too late to implement changes like this.

Well in all fairness, at this point I think its too late for them to change my mind about it either, no matter what tweaks they make to it.  Even if it didn't have the online only requirement, the game just does not look like the SimCity I enjoy. 

Yep, I'm just a grumpy old man living in the past.  :P

Quote from: Haljackey on October 06, 2012, 09:41:45 AM
I recently hammered Maxis about their lack of realism, especially concerning the transportation networks. Did you see the 1 tile 90 degree rail curve in the latest gameplay video? Even SC4 does not have that!

Believe it or not, Maxis actually got back to me about my comments, essentially saying "We're working on it."

Interesting ... the same thing happened to me...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ENgAPzfPV6E/UHB2VT7Vw3I/AAAAAAAABe4/IJRz6VFYWo4/s541/Comentario%252090%2520menor%2520-%2520SimCity%25202013.jpg)
It is clear that the concern is more with the gameplay of the new Simcity than with its realism. Or else there would be scenes like these ...


(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Jec1zI0RzIM/UHB2h75RYgI/AAAAAAAABfE/Lv-psHjUqGg/s651/TRANS%2520E%2520SEMAFOROS%2520edit.jpg)
souce: SimCity vídeo Estratégia Gameplay # 1  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YceL2C4TW4Q&feature=youtu.be&a)

- Drivers front with torticollis to see the traffic light ...

- Tram drivers having to hold up the chair to make the turn

- Sims having to shrink to fit in cars ...

Not forgetting of course the toy commented vision of buildings that are the result of low poly modeling that has very little worked textures

Anyway ... a little game to pass the time! &apls 

Watched the Maxis Live Broadcast today. Simtropolis was represented in it as well.

A couple new things to note:
1. Subways will not be in the game.
2. Services like hospitals and police stations can be expanded to boost their capacity (and maybe coverage). You don't have to demolish them and build bigger ones.

Quote from: Haljackey on October 09, 2012, 12:53:03 PM
Watched the Maxis Live Broadcast today. Simtropolis was represented in it as well.

'Twas very cool seeing Zelgadis in the broadcast. :thumbsup:

Responding to an earlier point:

Quote from: dyoungyn on October 03, 2012, 08:17:59 AM
If I am reading the above correctly, it could cost approximately over $100.00 just to play SC20313 single player mode.  WAY TO MUCH if you ask me.  Why can't it be all-in-one lise the past Sim City games.

The game's starting MSRP is $59.99 US, not $100.00.  And while it is an online-based game, it's been well-established that there is a single-player mode.  If you're referring to this:

Quote from: Monorail Master on October 03, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
List of Pre-Order bonuses - potental DLCs after Simcity 2013's release in Feb. 2013:

Terraforming DLC : $20.00
Singleplayer / Offline mode DLC : $30.00
Bridge Design Selection (as in SC4) DLC : $15.00
Elevated Roadways/Railways DLC : $25.00
You Drive It Mode : $40.00
Sandbox Mode for Singleplayer/offline DLC : $50.00

None of that has been confirmed or announced by EA Maxis, nor is a lot of it remotely likely to be--I believe Monorail Master was trying to be facetious.  The game was designed from the start to be multiplayer/online, and that's been known since the game was announced, and the reason for no terraforming is due to the designers' use of terrain as a puzzle element.  There's been hints that UDI will be a separate game module (ala Streets of SimCity and SimCopter), and bridge designs and elevated networks are, by all appearances, already in the new game.  There probably will be some DLC, but how is that really any different from having an Expansion Pack like Rush Hour? 

I think a lot of the fury surrounding the game on community fansites is based on an erroneous "end-of-world" fallacy, that the release of a new SimCity will automatically cause SC4 to instantaneously fall off the face of the earth.

-Alex

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Jec1zI0RzIM/UHB2h75RYgI/AAAAAAAABfE/Lv-psHjUqGg/s651/TRANS%2520E%2520SEMAFOROS%2520edit.jpg)

Wow it looks like grapghics I would expect to see on my ipad, not a quad core PC

A little bird just told me freeways will be included in the game. They're having trouble with on/off ramps though in pre-alpha testing.

Quote from: Haljackey on October 09, 2012, 07:52:25 PM
A little bird just told me freeways will be included in the game. They're having trouble with on/off ramps though in pre-alpha testing.

Thought they'd be including them minus ramps due to a bug. Exactly what I thought, surprisingly enough...

I, uh, hesitate to post this, but I chatted with Michael Donahoe at PAX Prime this year and recently got an invitation to go down to the studio and playtest the game a bit. All under NDA of course, and I've yet to hear anything back from him after I expressed my interest, but hopefully I will be able to go down there and tell all as soon as legally allowed.

Quote from: Tarkus on October 09, 2012, 05:11:07 PM

The game's starting MSRP is $59.99 US, not $100.00.  And while it is an online-based game, it's been well-established that there is a single-player mode.  If you're referring to this:

Quote from: Monorail Master on October 03, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
List of Pre-Order bonuses - potental DLCs after Simcity 2013's release in Feb. 2013:

Terraforming DLC : $20.00
Singleplayer / Offline mode DLC : $30.00
Bridge Design Selection (as in SC4) DLC : $15.00
Elevated Roadways/Railways DLC : $25.00
You Drive It Mode : $40.00
Sandbox Mode for Singleplayer/offline DLC : $50.00

None of that has been confirmed or announced by EA Maxis, nor is a lot of it remotely likely to be--I believe Monorail Master was trying to be facetious.  The game was designed from the start to be multiplayer/online, and that's been known since the game was announced, and the reason for no terraforming is due to the designers' use of terrain as a puzzle element.  There's been hints that UDI will be a separate game module (ala Streets of SimCity and SimCopter), and bridge designs and elevated networks are, by all appearances, already in the new game.  There probably will be some DLC, but how is that really any different from having an Expansion Pack like Rush Hour? 

I think a lot of the fury surrounding the game on community fansites is based on an erroneous "end-of-world" fallacy, that the release of a new SimCity will automatically cause SC4 to instantaneously fall off the face of the earth.

-Alex

What I mean by that was the typical actions Electronic Arts does in reguards to downloadable content, DLCs. Just look at other EA games such as Battlefield 3 or Mass Effect 3. Want a different ending for Mass Effect 3 instead of only one? That'll cost ya $15. Or for Battlefield 3: instant unlock all weapons, attachments, and/or vehicles "a.k.a. Timesaver Packs" for both Multiplayer and Co-Op is $10 - $30.

It's experiences like those that make me and loads of other people, to expect EA to throw in / implement small-medium sized DLCs that cost between $10 - $30 into SC2013 a few weeks after release. Instead of combining several or many of those DLCs and putting them into a disk, and then labeling it as an expansion pack just like what they did for SC4 called "SC4: Rush Hour Expansion Pack".


But anyways, the livestream yesterday did reveal several very interesting things, they are:

-City Size is mostly like SC4's land size
-Cars on 4+ lane roads spread evenly on both sides inorder to ease/try-to-prevent the infamous single-lane backups commonly seen in SC4.
-Train crossings have traffic lights that turn yellow when a train is coming, red when a train is crossing, and the traffic AI can make U-turns there. Even though it's still in development, there's still hope that Maxis will replace the traffic lights with train crossing lights+barriers similar to the Modular RR Crossing Mod that we have for SC4.
-Bus stops. They did say in the livestream that they did multiple researches to find to maximum distance an average person would walk to a bus stop, which is 400 meters. While placing the bus stops, they only come in sign form, no shelter, and the radius of the stop is shown on the road as a color. Green=Sims most likely to use the bus stop/tram stop/etc, Red=Sims least likely to use it.
-Water transport WILL be in the game. Ferries and of course cargo ports.
-Sadly, no subways :(
-If you do demolish a road with built lots on them, those buildings along the road will demolish as well.
-You will be able to take over other cities, but only if the city's owner gives it to you, etc. Thus making this feature look a whole lot like a form of Scenario Editor.

Quote from: Haljackey on October 09, 2012, 12:53:03 PM
Watched the Maxis Live Broadcast today. Simtropolis was represented in it as well.

A couple new things to note:
1. Subways will not be in the game.
2. Services like hospitals and police stations can be expanded to boost their capacity (and maybe coverage). You don't have to demolish them and build bigger ones.

Not only services like hospitals and police stations can be expanded. But also: power plants to increase power output, bus/tram depots to add more vehicles, fire stations, etc.


On a final note, near the end of the livestream they revealed that this week(and probaly next week) is:

DISASTER WEEK!!!

All during this week/next week, Maxis will reveal the disasters that will be in SC2013. If you watched the livestream all the way to the beginning of the Sims 3 part, Maxis revealed 1 of the 4 disasters that you can activate while you're playing your city. The one they showed was "METEOR STRIKE", words can't describe how awesome that disaster plays out. But I did notice the current disasters in SC2013 during the livestream:
-Meteor Strike
-UFO Invasion
-Fire (or earthquake) It's Earthquake
-Typhoon/hurricane (or Tornado) It's Tornado
-The last 2 I listed, I could barely tell because of the quality of the livestream.

But since Maxis did say that "The actions of your city will affect the neighboring cities such as: High pollution spreading into other cities, or a very high crime rate will cause nearby cities to have an increase in crime, etc.", maybe they'll implement a feature like this:

If a tornado happens in your city, if it leaves the city, the tornado will strike in the city that's in the tornado's path. Or if an earthquake occurs in your city, cities farther away from it's epicenter will vary in damage. Such as: Mag 7.0 quake occurs, epicenter is in your city, the cities near by suffer a Mag 6 quake, further away they suffer a Mag 5, and so on...

It would be awesome if they do add that, but for the time being keep a close eye on SC2013's development because they did say that it's "Disaster Week" now...


EDIT::: Found out this. Check their FB page here: https://www.facebook.com/SimCity to check the Disaster Week progress and other stuff...also a chance that the Servo Robot attack from SC4 may be in SC2013 aswell...

I am puzzled by the attention the disasters get. I honestly did not think anyone would care about this. I even kinda forgot that there are disasters in SC4.  ???

I don't know what's cool about disasters, too. I never use them. EA released a video about the disasters yesterday. If you want, you can see it here [link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RodekwSyo40&feature=BFa&list=UUnje_8ilXP7KB2vdssyAWug).
I will not stop playing SC4 and switch to the new one.

Quote from: RickD on October 15, 2012, 01:40:25 AM
I am puzzled by the attention the disasters get. I honestly did not think anyone would care about this. I even kinda forgot that there are disasters in SC4.  ???

I know someone who's fond of disaster movies etc. He even made a disaster movie in SC4 [Remake-like of 2012].. He can spend quite some time creating a city and then destroying it.

Though I'm like you and most people, I don't care much about having super tornadoes, volcanoes etc.

The roads certainly give a new meaning to the world indestructible, it doesn't matter what you do to them they look as good as new afterwards

... if you ignore the disasters happening the city setup makes interesting (its all very neat and tidy) viewing

-catty

Quote from: RickD on October 15, 2012, 01:40:25 AM
I am puzzled by the attention the disasters get. I honestly did not think anyone would care about this. I even kinda forgot that there are disasters in SC4.  ???

Just a guess ...


The frustration is as great as the expectations about the new SC that anything with some resemblance to what had become a reason for a flashy video to compensate fans.


Even if it is something with no practical sense, disasters like UFO, robots or maybe Pigs killers.

Chatted with some Maxis members today. They didn't leak much to me but did release a bit more info regarding highways and things.

1. Highways 'do not move'
2. They are exploring various configurations as to making highways within the playable area.
3. No farms, at least inside the play area. 'This isn't SimFarm'.
4. No 'undo' button, at least at this moment. That, complied with the inability to quit without saving means everything you do is final.

EDIT: One of the Maxis members was on Simtropolis chat today. They're also lurk on the SC2013 boards on that site and the SimCity.com forums. They also respond to a lot of tweets.

Quote from: Haljackey on October 16, 2012, 04:59:06 PM
..... at least inside the play area. 'This isn't SimFarm'.

With absolute certainty ... is also not SimCopter nor SimTower is much less SimIsle or SimGolf and in no way is SimLife or SimPark nor will one day Streets Of Simcity ...

Anyway ... maybe they should say "This isn't Simcity... is SimTown" at least there would be so many complaints!


Note: although it is not any of the above games if everything goes according to the plans for the GB these should also be "glassboxeds" and will join the family of MaxiS SimplegameS

Quote from: RickD on October 15, 2012, 01:40:25 AM
I am puzzled by the attention the disasters get. I honestly did not think anyone would care about this. I even kinda forgot that there are disasters in SC4.  ???

I love playing with disasters on.  It gives something different to the game when unexpected things happen

I miss being able to play a city knowing a disaster is going to happen.  I still have nightmares about finally being able to create a megalopolis(the highest level) on the SNES version of Simcity, and not having a camera when I finally achieved it, so I left the game running to run out to a store to buy a disposable picture to grab a picture of it, and coming back and my entire city was leveled due to a fire from a plane crash

Quote from: mike3775 on October 16, 2012, 07:54:45 PM
I love playing with disasters on.  It gives something different to the game when unexpected things happen

I miss being able to play a city knowing a disaster is going to happen.  I still have nightmares about finally being able to create a megalopolis(the highest level) on the SNES version of Simcity, and not having a camera when I finally achieved it, so I left the game running to run out to a store to buy a disposable picture to grab a picture of it, and coming back and my entire city was leveled due to a fire from a plane crash

Well, I did like the random floods from the first SimCity. If that would be implemented on a realistic level, requiring you to build countermeasures (dikes, drainage, flood basins, ...) that would be great.

Quote from: RickD on October 17, 2012, 12:17:01 AM

Quote from: mike3775 on October 16, 2012, 07:54:45 PM
I love playing with disasters on.  It gives something different to the game when unexpected things happen

I miss being able to play a city knowing a disaster is going to happen.  I still have nightmares about finally being able to create a megalopolis(the highest level) on the SNES version of Simcity, and not having a camera when I finally achieved it, so I left the game running to run out to a store to buy a disposable picture to grab a picture of it, and coming back and my entire city was leveled due to a fire from a plane crash

Well, I did like the random floods from the first SimCity. If that would be implemented on a realistic level, requiring you to build countermeasures (dikes, drainage, flood basins, ...) that would be great.

I liked the nuclear meltdown scenario as well.  You sorta have it now with SC4, but you have to cause the meltdown

Dirk at Simtropolis has written a review of the game based on his visit and experience playing the game when he and another ST admin were invited to visit Maxis last week: http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51614-maxis-visit-thoughts-and-impressions/#entry1288420

EDIT: Dirk himself replied to my comments... looks like the beta may be a farce. http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51614-maxis-visit-thoughts-and-impressions/#entry1288470

I loved how the #$%clown Maxis employee brushed off the concerns about always being online to play a freaking game.

I REFUSE to ever buy a game that requires me to always be online.  I hate games like that.  I want to come home, and play.  If I lose internet, I can't play.

There is a reason the cloud OS by google didn't do very well in the market

EDIt:  IF Simcity was important to them, they would have incorporated the things the long time fans care about.  They don't care about the long term fans, they only care about the kids who have the attention span of guppies, otherwise it wouldn't be a different paint scheme on the very few buildings that will be in the game so you have more repetition than SC4 had when it first came out before people got the BAT tool

Reading the witeup, the response to the two questions did seem a bit arrogant, but it's probably something they're really not allowed to talk about and trying to point fun at that. I mean, I'm sure it would be a PR disaster if it came out that a franchise they haven't touched in nearly a decade suddenly had yearly obsolescence built into it.

They wouldn't know exactly what the future holds, but they'd have action plans for most eventualities. EA is in too precarious a position to do without them.

Quote from: jdenm8 on October 17, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
Reading the witeup, the response to the two questions did seem a bit arrogant, but it's probably something they're really not allowed to talk about and trying to point fun at that. I mean, I'm sure it would be a PR disaster if it came out that a franchise they haven't touched in nearly a decade suddenly had yearly obsolescence built into it.

They wouldn't know exactly what the future holds, but they'd have action plans for most eventualities. EA is in too precarious a position to do without them.

In one of my business classes I took years ago to get my MBA, I was taught that if someone asked a question that you are not allowed to talk about, instead of avoiding the question, just answer "we are not allowed to discuss that" and say that line every single time that type of question is asked.  If that guy had said that fromt he get go, I am sure Dirk would have dropped the subject, but the way he answered, it opened him up to even more questions about it though.

I know that games are going that route to avoid piracy issues, and no matter how many times they say otherwise, that is the real reason they are doing it, because with them always online, they get authenticated, and if you have a pirated version of the game, you won't get authenticated and thus can't play.  But that really screws everyone who is honest.  Again, I like that I can install SC4 on my laptop, and take my laptop with me to school every day and play the game for an hour or two in between my classes if I feel like it, but with this new version, I can't even do that, because I would have to log onto the schools internet to just play a game, and the WiFi doesn't go that far into the parking lot for me to really be able to do it.  Then even at home, I can't play my game in my own backyard(I have a huge chunk of land that I own) because my wifi doesn't extend all the way across my property.  So I can't play the game sitting in the gazebo in the middle of my property just off the river that runs through my property either if I always have to be online. 

As far as the future goes, I see this game being a huge flop.  I hope it doesn't fail, but I also hope that maybe they will make another game like SC4, with a bunch of the stuff that this new version can do, with the same things that you can currently do with SC4.  I admit, the three level roads sounds interesting, being able to have a winding mountain road that is laid out easier than it is currently also is interesting, but unfortunately its a deal killer when you have the other things that are bad involved, like always online, very limited buildings with multiple paint schemes, the fact there are no farms, ruins any chance I will ever try this game

I have read on some games site that EA is enforcing a strict online strategy. Every game published by EA is required to have a multiplayer mode. I suspect that this whole collaborative play idea in sim city came from some higher level manager at EA who has no clue about the game.

Quote from: RickD on October 18, 2012, 04:34:12 AM
I have read on some games site that EA is enforcing a strict online strategy. Every game published by EA is required to have a multiplayer mode. I suspect that this whole collaborative play idea in sim city came from some higher level manager at EA who has no clue about the game.

I really wish I could find the article I read back in 2009, where EA and some other game company said they want to require an "always open internet connection" because it will prevent piracy from happening.  They also said multiplayer options as well, but I always found it funny for them to say they want to "enhance game play" with multiplayer, when for decades, they never needed to "enhance gameplay" automatically, they used to leave it up to the player to decide whether to go online or not, now the people have no choice.

I wonder how much game companies will have to pay if someone who has to always be online to play a game, gets a virus or malware installed on their PC from someone on their servers spreading it.  If I ended up with something, bet your behind, I am suing them for forcing me to always be online to play a solo game.

Thanks Haljackey for the link to Dirk's post. I dropped the majority of my thoughts over there (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51614-maxis-visit-thoughts-and-impressions/page__st__60#entry1288809). But a few things I thought I'd address over here instead.

I do miss the flood disaster - I don't know why they got rid of that one, but it was one of the more interesting, like the SC2K firestorms, for it's unpredictability and near helplessness to stop it.

As for the other old games, let's not forget the classic SimAnt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimAnt) as well. Some of those were odd games for sure - fascinating more for the idea that someone actually made a game on those topics than the actual enjoyment of gameplay in some cases.

Another topic that's been bounced around both here and at ST gets into the modability of the new game, especially the file formats we can expect to see. I don't see any reason why they couldn't continue to use DBPF files, since they're essentially just zip files, but I do think that we can expect most, if not all, of what's inside them to be different. Certainly the graphics will be new, and there's a good chance that the simulator files, even if not complex formats themselves, will be of some new format as well. And certainly there will be a handful of common formats, png for instance, tossed in too. The reality is we won't know until someone actually gets their hands on a copy of the game.

This also gets to another point of interest - namely, what files will you actually get with the game. I think we can expect the graphics to be locally installed - for the sake of bandwidth if nothing else. But it seems like they're keeping a pretty good lock on the game engine and possibly simulator files as well - which could mean we never see the likes of the current exemplars if they crunch all that server side and simply pass the results to your computer.  However, it took all of one day (http://www.simphoni.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2140) following release of SC4 for work to begin over at Simphoni on decoding the game, so I have faith we'll know pretty quickly just how much control we get over the game's files once it is released.

I do not think the facts that made it possible to make changes in the way SC4 we know today will be repeated for the new Simcity at any level.

Quote
.... EA gave us complete permission to do any modifications that we want. In fact they cheered us on in person, and gave us as much info as they could without breaking NDA's or giving up company secrets. Several modders have been under Non disclosure agreement with EA specifically for the purpose of furthering file modifications, and a bunch of us (myself included) beta tested the BAT when it was being made..

source:Legal Status of Sim City 4 mods (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/25824-legal-status-of-sim-city-4-mods/#entry695104)

This does not happen with the current guidelines to market  from EA.

Dirk was very polished in their impressions of the dependence of on-line in order to run the game!

- With respect to online is good to remember that there are also other market issues involved that go beyond of the supposed combat piracy!

"$Deal"$   DRM portals x Windows 8. - Keep captive the users will be solution? (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51625-drm-portals-x-windows-8-keep-captive-the-users-will-be-solution/#entry1288752)

After my initially mild enthusiastic reaction to the new game, I am beginning to have my doubts about it now. Essential for me is out ability to mod and create custom content to the same level as we have with SC4... I have my doubts that will happen :-(

The good thing is, that is has got me started BATting and modding for sc4 again, albeit with slow progress.

Quote from: NCGAIO on October 19, 2012, 02:57:27 AM
I do not think the facts that made it possible to make changes in the way SC4 we know today will be repeated for the new Simcity at any level.

Quote
.... EA gave us complete permission to do any modifications that we want. In fact they cheered us on in person, and gave us as much info as they could without breaking NDA's or giving up company secrets. Several modders have been under Non disclosure agreement with EA specifically for the purpose of furthering file modifications, and a bunch of us (myself included) beta tested the BAT when it was being made..

source:Legal Status of Sim City 4 mods (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/25824-legal-status-of-sim-city-4-mods/#entry695104)

This does not happen with the current guidelines to market  from EA.

Dirk was very polished in their impressions of the dependence of on-line in order to run the game!

- With respect to online is good to remember that there are also other market issues involved that go beyond of the supposed combat piracy!

"$Deal"$   DRM portals x Windows 8. - Keep captive the users will be solution? (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51625-drm-portals-x-windows-8-keep-captive-the-users-will-be-solution/#entry1288752)

Yeah I have heard that as well as to why they want always online. 

I would like to see more disasters occur in SC2013. Ones from previous Simcities, but revamped. As well as new disasters that haven't occured in the previous Simcity titles. The ones I'd like to see:

Returns:
Simcity 4's Train Derailment: Caused by low rail funding : Tram derailment = 25% chance of nearby building catching on fire, small section of tram track gets destroyed. Train derailment: 75% - 95% chance of causing multiple buildings to catch on fire or get destroyed, as well as a 10 - 20 tile stretch of track gets destroyed. Expect hospitals to be flooded with injured.

Simcity 3000's Acid Rain, caused by very high air pollution: Creates havoc in the city by destroying tram track/railroads, damages any type of building, industral buildings will be hit the hardest. Has a chance of 50% of completly destroying a building or transortation network just like in SC3000.

Simcity 4's Autosaurus Rex : The T-Rex made out of vehicles has managed to escape the stadium and is now wreaking havoc until it runs out of fuel.

New ones:

Dockside Mayhem: Container/Cargo Ship loses control and smashes into coastal buildings ranging from seaports, ferry terminals, to beachfront condos. Any building hit will get destroyed, 60% chance of fire, and bridge hit will suffer moderate to heavy damage. Players, or yourself, have to pickup the bill for bridge repairs. Inspired by several marintime accidents along the Mississippi River.

Freeway Fury (Yes, I know it's a crash junction on Burnout 3...): Car/truck crashes on freeway near the closest city. Crash severity is determined by freeway usage/traffic along several stretches, ranging from 1-car to a 10+ vehicle pileup. Crash likelyness is high along curved sections and interchanges. When the crash occurs, the section of freeway it occured on will close down for 5 mins - 45 mins based on how big the crash is. 5 minutes from like a Ferrari bursting into flames, or 45 minutes from a tanker truck bursting into flames and/or exploding. The crash will effect both freight traffic going from one city to another, as well as sims trying to go home/work. Inspired by anyone that's played Burnout 3 or Revenge's crash mode.

Power Blackout: Someone spilled crap onto the control panel, it shorted out, and it's lights out for the city and nearby areas until the power plant can be repaired.

Maxis seriously needs to add more disasters to SC2013. Just to add to the variety of the game because only 4 "big" disasters gives the impression of having not enough havoc. What can I say, I have ADD and when it kicks in I become easily bored. Disasters help keep me entertained and I'm sure others feel the same way as I.

To be honest I don't know if I am a fan of that, I'm just going to give you my expereince of drop eveyrthing, and go to the disater, due to that competing city game on the Playstation (a graphically sharp city builder that also requires the connection to run single player) as soon as your city starts to burn, advisor phones you, you litterally have to stop what your doing from up top, and I was surprised, to see myself get halted from building management, and ground level and having to drive to to the fire, stop the truck, hop out of the truck, pickup the hose, and act fast enough and accurately on the trigger to soak out the blazing flames on specific blazing spots on the building's walls.

Since SC will be out after, I don't know if they should pick up on that whole your required to drop everything, because disasters are active. SC4, felt like there was a sandbox control, that I liked better. This thing on Playstation, I don't know if I want EA to take that route, but I don't want to go into too much details, of how it could turn out, at this point, it looks like EA's version has more to offer in the building aspect. The thing on Playstation don't even have traffic signals, and I swear the cars come right at you when your own PS network avatar is trying to run on foot.

I've been a member here for a while for the downloads but only just today registered for the forum. I came seeking some information and tripped over this thread.

I've been playing Sim games for what seems like umpteen years now (in reality it's more like about fourteen) and have spent many happy hours building cities in the different SimCity versions. Shoot, I even enjoy Societies occasionally when I don't want to get into anything too detailed (although have always been very glad I didn't rush right out to buy that one).

When I read about SC5 coming out I was cautiously excited. That lasted for about thirty minutes until I found out it was going to require an internet connection to be able to play it.

I can understand the appeal of multi-play and that could be a lot of fun. However, requiring an internet connection for single-player mode just doesn't sit well with me at all. TPTB can paint it any color they want but I know EA's reasoning behind it is because they think it will stop piracy. I think that every move EA has ever made to stop piracy has done nothing but continue their delusion that stopping it is even possible. I've been around in various gaming communities enough to know that if a person is bent on using an illegal copy of something they will find a way to do it.

Also, I've seen various people raise concerns over how long EA will be willing to maintain servers for multi-play. In my opinion this is a valid question. How many times in the past has EA started something to shut it down a short while later? If they do shut down the servers will they issue a patch to change the connection requirement by the game? Or will people be sitting there with a $60+ ($60+ because no doubt EA will release plenty of DLC) game they can't even load?

All EA has done with this is drive me, a potential customer, away. I resent having something I don't want forced on me because someone thinks otherwise I might steal their precious game. I'll continue playing SC4 despite its crashes on my Windows 7 computer because I can play it how I want and when I want.

Quote from: Reginasunrae on October 27, 2012, 04:14:58 PM
......  but I know EA's reasoning behind it is because they think it will stop piracy. I think that every move EA has ever made to stop piracy has done nothing but continue their delusion that stopping it is even possible.

As I said before,  EA decisions regarding product online go far beyond fighting piracy. Are also financial decisions ...

To better understand this reasons just need read  two articles .....

Elevation Partners - private equity  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_Partners)

EA - Electronic Arts  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts)

Quote
" EA's earnings are marked by an ongoing difference between non-GAAP and GAAP accounting – which, for example, mandates deferrals of revenue related to services provided for online-enabled packaged goods and digital content. Consequently, EA's quarterly reports reflect hundreds of millions of dollars which, under GAAP accounting, are deferred for a period of months – then appear in the earnings over multiple quarters subsequent to the original sale. Other companies with significant online revenues face similar issues. This can make it extremely difficult to understand the company's GAAP profitability."

Quote from: Reginasunrae on October 27, 2012, 04:14:58 PM
......   I've been around in various gaming communities enough to know that if a person is bent on using an illegal copy of something they will find a way to do it.

Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

my main reason not to get it, lets go online to westwood studios and play Command and Conquer.  Oh wait, we can't, no servers

Quote from: NCGAIO on October 27, 2012, 05:08:58 PM
Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

They cracked World of Warcraft, they'll probably crack this.

Quote from: NCGAIO on October 27, 2012, 05:08:58 PM
As I said before,  EA decisions regarding product online go far beyond fighting piracy. Are also financial decisions ...

To better understand this reasons just need read  two articles .....

Elevation Partners - private equity  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_Partners)

EA - Electronic Arts  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts)

Quote
" EA's earnings are marked by an ongoing difference between non-GAAP and GAAP accounting – which, for example, mandates deferrals of revenue related to services provided for online-enabled packaged goods and digital content. Consequently, EA's quarterly reports reflect hundreds of millions of dollars which, under GAAP accounting, are deferred for a period of months – then appear in the earnings over multiple quarters subsequent to the original sale. Other companies with significant online revenues face similar issues. This can make it extremely difficult to understand the company's GAAP profitability."

Well see? There ya go. I just let my ignorance on that topic get in the way, didn't I? I think also it wasn't helping that I was thinking only with a quarter of the functional part of my brain that day because realistically I know DLC is extremely profitable for EA.

In reference to the hackers, having to download part of the code will only slow them down and they'll relish every ounce of the challenge they get from breaking it.

I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I posted. If  reread carefully  will see that it comes to the accounting aspects of prioritizing the provision of services instead of selling the products.


There would be discourteous to point out any ignorance on matters that not everyone should know, if that was how you interpreted..

Nowadays there are several battles over digital distribution that will change much what is working today like this for example ....


"$Deal"$  -  Windows 8 - serious concerns for developers and gaming portals (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/51625-drm-portals-x-windows-8-keep-captive-the-users-will-be-solution/#entry1291042)

Aw shoot, I really did it, didn't I? :D You see, I have a way of just jumping into a conversation, even on forums I've never really posted on, and totally forget that the other people reading really don't know me at all and know how to read between the lines of what I post. Some days I totally forget this is, after all, the internet. ;D

I'm thinking that perhaps some of the concerns with Windows 8 may be unwarranted. I'm not 100% positive on that but based on what I know about the new OS they should be able to distribute their games.

I may not be understanding all the concerns totally, but there are basically two versions of Windows 8. There's RT, which just came out on the first Surface tablets. This is pretty much nothing more than a tablet OS along the lines of Android and the RT versions are pretty much just a tablet with added software like Office so they can be functional as well as toys. These computers can't run older software and the like, and just like an Android tablet needs to download apps from the MS store (at least currently, there may be apps available in other places eventually).

The normal OS Windows 8 is currently available on new computers as well and will also be available on another version of the Surface tablet after the first of next year. Of course this version of Windows 8 will run all kinds of software, including older stuff. I don't think that any publisher is going to be pushed into MS's app store to distribute their software on the regular Windows 8. If what I've read over the past couple of months is correct, MS's app store can definitely be used if a publisher wishes to, but isn't mandatory. Even if they did and had to pay MS a portion of the selling price, I don't see how that would be any different than selling in a brick and mortar store or selling via Amazon, B&N's website, etc.

Over the years I've grown to really, really dislike EA. I have no patience for heavy-handed business practices. I have even less tolerance for a company that expects a premium price for defective products. I'm all about freedom during playing, using mods that I like, having plenty of CC made by players to choose from, etc. I don't know if SC5 will be moddable or not but I'm thinking multi-play could sure limit that. When TS2 came out, developers from EA helped the modders get their tools working. By the time TS3 came out, EA tried to lock players out of doing much in the way of modifications. I know developers were monumental when it came to modding SC4 as well and am wondering if they'll be anywhere nearly as friendly to people wanting to mod SC5. I think EA tends to forget just how important the modding communities are the longevity of some of their games.

I suppose in the end for me it's a pretty moot point anyway since the past couple of years I haven't had nearly as much time as I would like to play video games and have pretty much decided to get the games I do have installed on my computer and be good with that. I bought SC4 not too long after it came out and over the years I haven't even managed to build one entire region yet. At the time my computer could barely run it. Then I started playing Sims 2 and didn't play much else all during that time. I deserted a family in that game for Sims 3, which I have a love-hate relationship with. I started building a world for Sims 3 shortly after the Create A World tool came out. It's still not finished. I never have managed to finish all the scenarios in Zoo Tycoon 2 and I've had it for ages. I still have three Pokemon games to finish and a few other games that I play on my DS. I think I could spend the rest of my life just finishing what I already have started.

Quote from: Reginasunrae on October 29, 2012, 10:55:36 PM
I may not be understanding all the concerns totally, but there are basically two versions of Windows 8. There's RT, which just came out on the first Surface tablets. This is pretty much nothing more than a tablet OS along the lines of Android and the RT versions are pretty much just a tablet with added software like Office so they can be functional as well as toys. These computers can't run older software and the like, and just like an Android tablet needs to download apps from the MS store (at least currently, there may be apps available in other places eventually).

One of the problems people have is if AMD leave the AMDx64 and x32 spaces and move to implementing ARM on Desktop chipsets, Windows RT won't be a niche tablet operating system, it'll become the main version on the cheaper ARM-Based AMD equipped computers.

Quote from: Reginasunrae on October 29, 2012, 10:55:36 PM
The normal OS Windows 8 is currently available on new computers as well and will also be available on another version of the Surface tablet after the first of next year. Of course this version of Windows 8 will run all kinds of software, including older stuff. I don't think that any publisher is going to be pushed into MS's app store to distribute their software on the regular Windows 8. If what I've read over the past couple of months is correct, MS's app store can definitely be used if a publisher wishes to, but isn't mandatory. Even if they did and had to pay MS a portion of the selling price, I don't see how that would be any different than selling in a brick and mortar store or selling via Amazon, B&N's website, etc.

Both EA and Ubisoft would throw hissy fits because they wouldn't be able to use their online platforms and Valve would need to adopt a more traditional release schedule (As in, not release game in 2007, offer free updates for four years, make game free to play and continue giving free updates) and they would probably be a lot more restrictive on the use of their engine simply because Steam would cease to exist.
The problem here isn't that this isn't possible on Windows 8, it's far from that. The problem is that it might not be possible in Windows 9, 10, 11 etc. We're possibly at the top of a slippery slope here and if Microsoft decides that the Windows Store is definitely the way to go, you'll find that good old Explorer will become increasingly limited in what it can do. It may have largely the same feature set it had in Windows 7 now, but imagine that in Windows 9, they changed the default setting to not allowing applications running under Explorer to modify the File System or only able to modify NTFS file systems (Not the Default file system I might add, yes it might be the norm under Windows NT4.0 - 7, but Windows 8 uses a completely new one). The ramifications would be massive. Not having Explorer able to modify the default file system format.

Just imagine that for a second.

Quote from: Reginasunrae on October 29, 2012, 10:55:36 PM
By the time TS3 came out, EA tried to lock players out of doing much in the way of modifications.

Oh, I remember that. It was the #3 reason (behind Uncanny Valley and No Bloody Content, #4 was the low-rent-ness of a lot of the models, a lot of the 'nicer' objects in TS3 are blown away by the Base Game toilet in TS2) why I didn't buy The Sims 3.

jdenm8 I would certainly never say that what you're describing couldn't be the wave of the future for MS. I know there are concerns aplenty and I don't believe they're completely without warrant. I know there's a new generation of computer users on the march and many of those have no problem with what is currently referred to as walled gardens and having their privacy and rights trampled on because they're too caught up in having the "latest and greatest" thing. Look at how many people have Facebook accounts, for crying out loud, posting intimate details about their lives for all the world to see and have no problem with giving up tons of information to various websites that profit from that information.

I can also imagine another scenario, though. Valve is already developing Steam for Linux. Can you just imagine if MS did do something like locking everyone into their store how many people could suddenly become Linux converts? At the same time if MS does go that route I can see a huge lawsuit being filed against them for trying to monopolize the market.

Back to the Sims franchise, yeah, it just irked me beyond measure that EA was recycling TS2 objects and selling them in their store for TS3. There are aspects of TS3 that I really enjoy but at the same time there are others I absolutely hate. I like that everyone in town ages and eventually dies without my help, but at the same time I definitely miss having a Townie stand idly by while I raise three or four generations waiting for just the right Sim to marry said Townie. Another thing I abhor about TS3 is that married Sims are never really into each other, at all. TS2 Sims seemed so much more aware of their relationships and such. I eventually got used to the uncanny valley look of the Sims and in game it's not as bad as the original screenshots made it out to look. At any rate, high on my to-do list is to get my TS2 game reinstalled and my saves and CC restored so I can play it too.

Quote from: jdenm8 on October 30, 2012, 02:16:15 AM
One of the problems people have is if AMD leave the AMDx64 and x32 spaces and move to implementing ARM on Desktop chipsets, Windows RT won't be a niche tablet operating system, it'll become the main version on the cheaper ARM-Based AMD equipped computers.

Won't happen. That would basically mean Intel would have a monopoly on the x86 market, which would effectively kill it.  Of the 2, I think Intel is much more likely to switch to ARM actually.
Now, don't take this personal, but I think that he whole AMD leaving x86 is just a rumour started by dissapointed AMD fanboys because AMD could not compete at the time with Intel in the performance segment

Quote from: jdenm8 on October 30, 2012, 02:16:15 AM
The problem here isn't that this isn't possible on Windows 8, it's far from that. The problem is that it might not be possible in Windows 9, 10, 11 etc. We're possibly at the top of a slippery slope here and if Microsoft decides that the Windows Store is definitely the way to go, you'll find that good old Explorer will become increasingly limited in what it can do. It may have largely the same feature set it had in Windows 7 now, but imagine that in Windows 9, they changed the default setting to not allowing applications running under Explorer to modify the File System or only able to modify NTFS file systems (Not the Default file system I might add, yes it might be the norm under Windows NT4.0 - 7, but Windows 8 uses a completely new one). The ramifications would be massive. Not having Explorer able to modify the default file system format.

Just imagine that for a second.

Sounds a bit extreme, but I also think this is where Apple wants to go to once ARM becomes powerful enough to take over notebook functionality and thus make iOS (aka walled garden) the only option you have for apps (leaving things like pirating via jailbreaking aside).
I do think that Steam on Linux will significantly boost popularity of Linux though.
That said, I also think Windows 8 is getting unfairly hammered. I mean, all it clearly shows is that people are afraid of radical change. I mean, it's nowhere near as bad as Vista or Me was.

Quote from: jdenm8 on October 27, 2012, 08:39:33 PM

Quote from: NCGAIO on October 27, 2012, 05:08:58 PM
Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

They cracked World of Warcraft, they'll probably crack this.

Indeed look at this way Blizzard has since caved, they allow the addons but grudgingly soo... As with Sim City 4 look at this way we have modded this game to be more then a game it is today, its like SC4 Expansion Turbo which would be like WoW's MoP lol

Quote from: Pat on October 30, 2012, 05:31:19 PM

Quote from: jdenm8 on October 27, 2012, 08:39:33 PM

Quote from: NCGAIO on October 27, 2012, 05:08:58 PM
Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

They cracked World of Warcraft, they'll probably crack this.

Indeed look at this way Blizzard has since caved, they allow the addons but grudgingly soo... As with Sim City 4 look at this way we have modded this game to be more then a game it is today, its like SC4 Expansion Turbo which would be like WoW's MoP lol

Really? Last time I heard, Activizzard was still showering operators of Alternative Servers with Cease and Desist letters.

QuoteThat said, I also think Windows 8 is getting unfairly hammered. I mean, all it clearly shows is that people are afraid of radical change.

I'm in agreement there. I finally got the opportunity to put my hands on Windows 8 yesterday. I went into it pretty blind, intentionally not reading any how-tos and such because I wanted to see if it was difficult to use. Yeah, it's different. Yeah, there's a learning curve. Yeah, it's ugly as sin with all those flat tiles. HOWEVER! If a person has any experience at all using a computer and knowing what they SHOULD be able to do they could figure it out with just a little effort. I think any new user would also benefit from a little bit of experience with a tablet OS like Android, which I have had. Windows 8 is actually pretty simple as long as you remember to use the Windows key on your keyboard and that there's a line of "charms" on the right-hand side of the monitor to get into various places you don't see right off the bat.

Another thought I had in reference to MS going to a possible walled garden set-up. How long do you suppose it will be before Google releases a version of Android that's a full operating system rather than something just for smartphones and tablets? I can see it happening.

AMD just needs to pull its collective act together and get back in the game as a serious contender. I always loved AMD and I know they can pull it off if they set their minds to it.

Quote from: Reginasunrae on November 02, 2012, 02:00:17 PM
How long do you suppose it will be before Google releases a version of Android that's a full operating system rather than something just for smartphones and tablets? I can see it happening.

They wouldn't because it'd cannibalise the incredibly small install base of Chrome OS.

SimCity Interview on the Noon show

Scroll to 6:45 in.

http://www.youtube.com/v/qste9iwWGzo

New SimCity Video from Ocean Quigley... rocking an awesome Movember stache http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=tsm_1_tw_s_vg_mdi5w6?docId=1000856141

Get it while it's hot

Quote from: AmazonList Price: $59.99
Price: $59.96 

:D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhqBHL.jpg&hash=4ee8ce738b696a01d9e4511e2e11fd643e635c18)

This looks like a $70 Facebook game now.

It looks like we don't have to worry about their putting us out of business. $%Grinno$%

Your so right about that this game has nothing on Mother Sim City 4. So happy this new game is not better than Sim City 4, I have been doing so much batting I have no time to play the game any more, maybe when I decide to stop batting building for Sim City 4 I will have the time. :D

Its looking worse and worse the more they show. 

Looks like a weird mix of Farmville crap and Cityville. :thumbsdown: ()sad()


Seems like you need Facebook to play this....... and show your face.

I wonder if this social aspect will catch on. Most people I know which play facebook games do so to kill some time, in their lunchbreak, during commute or over a cup of coffee. In any case, most if not all play do not play these games because they're truly interested. Besides, it sounds great you can build a city together but as is clear from this and earlier screenshots it's simply not possible to build one, large city together. There'll always be these weird gaps inbetween. Honestly the regional aspect - or lack thereof - is still the biggest drawback for me. That said, here're two more screenshots. Looks like seasonal flora will be included from the start.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg856.imageshack.us%2Fimg856%2F9782%2Fa93frhecmaebmgr.jpg&hash=d67214e28da0bc53ebee80a98c44c49589b46fec)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A99SPHiCMAEiyL9.jpg:large)

This so called "region" view is ridiculous. But I have to say that those last two small town pictures are actually not that bad.

I actually am really looking forward to this game ... perhaps because I expect it to be not like simcity4 ... or simcity3000 or any other game. I will judge it on its playability. If it's not fun or I don't like the way it looks only then will I judge it negatively and definitely before it is released. I have played ALL simcity versions and enjoyed them ALL. To me that means the producers have quite a bit of credit.

Quote from: Serkanner on December 13, 2012, 09:04:05 AM
I actually am really looking forward to this game ... perhaps because I expect it to be not like simcity4 ... or simcity3000 or any other game. I will judge it on its playability. If it's not fun or I don't like the way it looks only then will I judge it negatively and definitely before it is released. I have played ALL simcity versions and enjoyed them ALL. To me that means the producers have quite a bit of credit.

Yup, that's what I'm thinking as well. I've pre-ordered it, not at all expecting it to be like SC4. I'll judge it's playability when I get it; doesn't make sense to completely write it off while no-one of us (except Dirk and ill_tonkso) have played it a single second. I'm kind of looking forward to the depth that the simulation/datamining/Glassbox will add, for example. On the other hand, the regional overview doesn't look entirely convincing either. I can understand their choice for the big 'empty' areas in between sections for the multiplayer, so there wouldn't be too much interference from region connections and everything, but for the 'singleplayer' I hope we'll have more customisation option than what that one picture is showing.

The town pic is okay, I still see some repletion in it, especially with the blue house. But looking at this pic really changes my view of the game so far.


Looks like the NAM team will have some more stuff to work on when it comes out, where's the turning lanes guys! ;D

Her's the new gameplay Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzouhrHCpM)

I played a bit of their early early demo at PAX Prime 2012. It was pretty good, though there were a lot of options missing.

I've been kicking around the idea of a voxel-based city sim, but right now my programming skills are not up to the task.

Quote from: sunv123 on December 13, 2012, 01:29:35 PM
Looks like the NAM team will have some more stuff to work on when it comes out, where's the turning lanes guys! ;D

The NAM Team is an SC4 content development group, so we're not really thinking about the new game, and it doesn't factor into our plans.  It's also not set up to handle modding out of the box, though that's not much different from SC4's rollout.  The main tools that made this community possible weren't available until close to a year after release.

I haven't really decided if I'm going to buy the new SimCity, though if I do, it probably won't be until several months after release, when the game's longer-term trajectory is clearer.  It's very rare that I'll buy a game right out of the gate.  I didn't buy SC4 until about a year after its release, when the Deluxe Edition came out, and it had the features I've always wanted out of a SimCity game.  (And when SC4 doesn't have something I want, I can (in most cases) mod it into the game.)

To their credit, the development folks at EA Maxis seem quite enthusiastic about what they've created, and I think there are a lot of nice things they've done with the new game.  The GlassBox engine is pretty astounding, and I'm quite glad to see that they've incorporated some NAM ideas with respect to their transportation options.  I'm mixed on the predominantly multiplayer focus.  It's an interesting idea, and somewhat of an experiment in a genre that has traditionally been very much about single-player experiences, but the big question will be how much "churn" they have among the userbase.  The aspect that makes me the most reticent is the way regions are handled.  The idea of only 16 4km² tiles, with all that dead space between them, is not particularly appealing to me.  While I'm trying very hard not to make value judgments about the game based on SC4, after experiencing the strong appeal of the region play paradigm of SC4 for so many years, it's very hard for me not to do so (especially considering that, to my knowledge, there are limits on how much can be stored in the Origin cloud).  If this changes in the future, perhaps by, say, adding an "annexation" feature, which could really add an intriguing layer to the multiplayer focus, then my interest level would spike. 

But with their really detailed simulation at the smaller levels of hierarchy, it may become a resource drain quite quickly to make regions work more like SC4.  Even with the increases in computing power over the past 10 years, to the point where a true-3D retail city-simulation game is actually feasible, there are still limitations.  This genre of game is very demanding of hardware, and in different aspects of it than your average state-of-the-art FPS or MMORPG, toward which gaming hardware design tends to be skewed.

-Alex

Quote from: Tarkus on December 13, 2012, 04:58:59 PM
But with their really detailed simulation at the smaller levels of hierarchy, it may become a resource drain quite quickly to make regions work more like SC4.  Even with the increases in computing power over the past 10 years, to the point where a true-3D retail city-simulation game is actually feasible, there are still limitations.  This genre of game is very demanding of hardware, and in different aspects of it than your average state-of-the-art FPS or MMORPG, toward which gaming hardware design tends to be skewed.

-Alex

Difficult, yes, especially with the tools Maxis has available, but by no means impossible.  IIRC, they're a C++/Lua shop, which makes concurrency really hard.  (And the only way to improve CPU-intensive calculations is to spread them around threads.)  I could see, though, a game engine built in something like Rust doing a really good job of farming out pathfinding and development to separate threads and working quite well.  (If only Rust were mature enough at this point to do it.)

Also: man, so much /raeg in this thread.  There are some things we all need to keep in mind here:
- Maxis is an EA shop
- EA is in the business of publishing *games*.

SimCity, up through SC4, is a simulation that happens to be fun to play with.  It isn't a game.  (Though you can see definite signs of EA's push towards gamification in SC4 as well -- the Sims tie-in and U-Drive-It.)  SCS was a game.  This new SimCity is going to be a game.  It's entirely the opposite approach of earlier editions.  This is neither a good nor bad thing. I expect this new game to be more fun to *play* than SC4 is at the moment, but it's going to have a lot less depth to tinker.  EA's goal is maximizing profit, Maxis developers have to eat.  EA says jump, devs ask "how high?" -- that's just how it works.  Scale your expectations back to reality.

Will we see any new real city simulations going forward?  Probably.  I hope so, at least.  But wouldn't expect it from Maxis.  (There is a reason Will Wright jumped ship a few years back.)

(Also: Long time no see, guys.  Has it really been 3 years since my last post?)

Quote from: ACEfanatic02 on December 18, 2012, 01:02:30 PM

This new SimCity is going to be a game.  It's entirely the opposite approach of earlier editions.  This is neither a good nor bad thing. I expect this new game to be more fun to *play* than SC4 is at the moment, but it's going to have a lot less depth to tinker.  EA's goal is maximizing profit, Maxis developers have to eat.  EA says jump, devs ask "how high?" -- that's just how it works.  Scale your expectations back to reality.

Will we see any new real city simulations going forward?  Probably.  I hope so, at least.  But wouldn't expect it from Maxis.  (There is a reason Will Wright jumped ship a few years back.)

Well .. I believe that if it were released in this way would not receive any of the scathing criticism from fans of simulators!

But it is not so that EA makes its disclosure quite the contrary. She does not give up appeal to longtime fans of the genre to boost sales.

eg: Recently on reedit

Quote
"Kip Katsarelis (MaxisKip) - Senior Producer – Expert on all things SimCity" -

"This is definitely a game for the hardcore fans. When we started this project, we looked at previous SimCity games and evaluated what made them great. We looked at fan sites, spoke with fans, looked at reviews, and looked at what the SimCity 4 community was up to. We wanted to make sure that we delivered on the core values of SimCity. Probably the most important pillar of the game has always been simulation and that's where we put the bulk of our efforts. We felt if we did satisfy our core audience, then why make it."

souce:http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/14umm1/we_are_the_simcity_dev_team_from_maxis_amaa/c7gk71q?context=5 (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/14umm1/we_are_the_simcity_dev_team_from_maxis_amaa/c7gk71q?context=5)

Now in the same response we see the typical reasons that you mention for the gamification largest in new Simcity! ... They want more public

Quote
We also took into account that there is an entirely new generation of SimCity fans who may have played SimCity on mobile or console or maybe not at all. We wanted to make this game accessible to them as well. This is where the data layers and infogrphics came in. We wanted to present these complex systems in a friendly way.

As we all know that complex simulation is not exactly the strong point of mobile devices or consoles then something is out of tune between ...

- "Probably the most important pillar of the game has always been simulation and that's where we put the bulk of our efforts."

and

- "SimCity fans who may have played SimCity on mobile or console or maybe not at all.We wanted to make this game accessibleto them as well

Unless you consider that realism in the simulation is to see the water going ... energy flowing ... who is driving the car etc ...

. "We wanted to make this game accessible to them as well."

This may also explain why non terraforming, small maps, mod-less ... Finally everything we already know so let us all conform to it.


:'( - Simcity 2013 is not a good simulator ... is a good game! - :D


.

With 10 kids(8 of them school aged), believe me when I say I have access to ALOT of kids and different views, and none of them have ever played a simcity game on a mobile device(Which many of them have).  They all play on PC's or laptops.

I don't like playing simulation games on my iPad or iPod, as those games tend to suck a battery dry real quick

Quote from: Haljackey on November 05, 2012, 03:58:47 PM
SimCity Interview on the Noon show

Scroll to 6:45 in.

EDIT - Video deleted.

Very interesting!!!!

I must admit, much of the stuff he talks about we have in the game. For example glassbox (I'm sure IBM's got that name copywrited for it's AppScan portfolio); you can slow the current game down and zoom in and see the sims (and vehicles etc.) traveling around and see where you have congestion problems. This was one of vlakhaas' (Colin's) best pieces of advice.

And region playing with residential in one city, commercial in another and industrial in a third... We've been doing this with demand across cities for as long as I can recall. I'm wondering how much of SC2013 is a new sim engine (very little?) and how much is new wiz-bang graphics (a lot!).

I like that they've got oil derricks in the game. I won't claim coming up with the idea, but I did have some lots using some great derrick models that were good for starting a city.  ;)

Quote from: deadwoods on December 19, 2012, 10:46:21 PM
I'm wondering how much of SC2013 is a new sim engine (very little?) and how much is new wiz-bang graphics (a lot!).

:-\  I have no doubt that it is really a new type of simulator ... but it seems to have more concern for the gameplay than with reality.

-  An example of as the game try prevent the invertion of its population pyramid. -  &idea   

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZKtvQKNKkHE/UNM2q2QEzTI/AAAAAAAABiY/kRE1hE3JA1g/s640/RESPOSTA%2520MULTIPLO%2520SEIS%2520SIMCITY.jpg)

>:(  - And just to remember the reason for all the limitations imposed on the new game is worth emphasizing that the Maxis-EA is delivering exactly what showed at E3 ...


:o  - This is not a good reason ?- DEPLOY SAME GAMEPLAY ACROSS MULTIPLE DEVICES - &dance
.

I have to admit the more I see of the new SimCity 2013 the less it appeals to me, but I could be totally wrong, something that does get over shadowed by the debate is the other city builder under development and that's Synekism they do a new update the first of each month and the January Version has just been released, its got a long way to go before it reaches the stage that it can replace SC4 and like any independent development it may never get there ... but its still worth following as an interesting project

http://www.synekism.com/index.php

There has been a lot of debate about map sizes in the new SimCity so I'll leave you with what the new Cities in Motion 2 plans to do for its new release

anyone fancy having 8km by 8km maps

QuoteIn the original CiM, we had maps spanning over 3 x 3 km in size. CiM2 introduces maps that are roughly 8 x 8 km, bringing players new possibilities to tackle even the biggest metropolis. This time around the maps can have vast mountain ranges and large differences in height; you can build a sprawling city in the valley and have smaller suburban areas located higher up on the hills and mountain slopes.
*
The design process and idea with the maps in CiM2 was to create a region that would accommodate all the maps, a geographical section so to speak. Instead of designing individual maps that float in nothingness, we "connected" the maps so that they can be seen as part of a bigger whole. For example, a river that can be seen coming from the edge of one map actually continues in the other map where it originates from a lake. This can be seen in the campaign window while selecting which city to choose, it creates a sense of continuity where the world is a tangible entity instead of separate pieces.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?655125-Cities-in-Motion-2-%E2%80%93-Planning-the-levels-%E2%80%93-Developer-diary-3

-catty

For those who are interested, you can register for the beta here (http://www.simcity.com/en_US/beta/info), and apparently start playing immediately.

The title page for the beta states:

QuoteThe team at Maxis is hard at work rebooting the king of city-simulation games, SimCity! We are extremely excited with our progress so far and would especially like to thank you the fans for your continued participation and support. We are humbled by your passion, it fuels us to work even harder to make the game we've been dreaming of, and deliver the SimCity you've always wanted.

Well, we're going to humble them even more when we release the next NAM. ;D   Nor will that be the end of it. $%Grinno$%   There are a lot of interesting things left in SC4.

There's also this special deal:

QuotePre-order SimCity LE (Origin) $48 + GMG Rewards GreenManGaming.com (http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=5788892&sdop=1&sdpid=56722868&sdfid=9&lno=1&trd=GreenManGaming+com&u2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenmangaming.com%2Fs%2Fus%2Fen%2Fpc%2Fgames%2Fsimulation%2Fsimcity-limited-edition-na%2F) [greenmangaming.com (http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=5788892&sdop=1&sdpid=56722868&sdfid=9&lno=1&trd=GreenManGaming+com&u2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenmangaming.com%2Fs%2Fus%2Fen%2Fpc%2Fgames%2Fsimulation%2Fsimcity-limited-edition-na%2F)] has SimCity LE (Origin) for $48 when you apply voucher code GMG20-PJFEW-Y16HK at checkout plus it comes with either $1 cash back or $2 GMG reward credit to use on a different game.

Comes with SimCity Heroes and Villains DLC.

Game is scheduled to be release on March 5th

Heres some gameplay footage from Maxis Simcity videos (http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=5788892&sdop=1&sdpid=56722868&sdfid=9&lno=2&trd=Simcity+videos&u2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simcity.com%2Fen_US%2Fmedia%2Fvideo) [simcity.com (http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=5788892&sdop=1&sdpid=56722868&sdfid=9&lno=2&trd=Simcity+videos&u2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simcity.com%2Fen_US%2Fmedia%2Fvideo)]

Good times those in which the release of Betas served for the studios to correct the bugs and consider suggestions for improvements.


Here is just a ploy for marketing to swell ORIGIN !


SimCity 2013 - a poor simulator ... maybe a good game ... but certainly a big deal for E.A.

Somehow they already slammed Origin at my face already. Old EA account, Origin. If they didn't sell non-EA games on Origin, and force you into connections on other units aside from your PC, maybe it would still be known as EA's DL manager, but I can't even play on the console without EA forcing me to log into Origin. The only thing is, I don't have to start a new account on the PC, since Playstation and Xbox users are stuck with it on certain EA titles. These days, consoles are a given to certain login requirements in single cases, but still, I am kinda fried at the price. It's the old, just going to have to wait and see how it goes. I mean the ironic thing, is Origin sold Saints Row the 3rd, with it's full DLC at one time, for a lot less money then this new SC reboot. I know their not the same game, but in terms of pricing, and content. 20 dollars off the top of the higher up version of the new SC, I may think about it, but were all just going to have to wait and see, but because the forced requirement for Origin and web connection, I don't find it worth the price. I do still have an interest in it though.

Best part of the Beta?

You're legally not allowed to say anything other than that the Beta exists and that you are in it. Fun!

 SO since I converted my EA to Origin I cannot even get into it. Good start for a new game. From what I have read and seen I personally will be waiting until all the dust is knocked off this one. I will vote with my gaming dollars when they can show its worth it.

I would like to repeat what I said here (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/52894-where-has-all-the-realism-gone/) regarding the question about where all the realism has gone in the SimCity franchise.

---

Post-SimCity 4 the developers have been more interested in telling us how we should play, what we should think about and where we should go with a city than actually giving us the tools, freedom and ability to intuitively, creatively, independently and individually design, build, lay out, connect and plan cities - realistic or not, one tile or an entire region, on earth or elsewhere.

The SimCity franchise, starting with SimCity Societies, has become a patronising, condescending gaming entity that underestimates my intelligence and ability, and pretends to know what is in my best interest and what I should need, want or pursue.

I resent that.

"Challenge everything". It is so fitting that it is whispered and proclaimed at the launch of SimCity 4. Challenge everything. Since, that has not been the invocation from Maxis / EA or any other entity involved in our beloved franchise.

I'll stick to SimCity 4 largely because I absolutely love it, but also because of the freedom, the passion, and the many years of dedication and commitment to improving the last real SimCity installment that placed us - the player - at the centre of it all.

Very well said, M4346.  &apls

The best thing about Sim City 4 and all its predecessors ist that there is no goal set, there are no tasks that i must accomplish. I am completely free to do anything I want.

Accomlishing a goal, like building the biggest stadium by cooperating with another player may be fun the first few times. But it will be boring and even annoying when you have to do it the hundreth time.

In SC4 I set my own goals and that makes most of the fun for me.

Couldn't agree more. One of the great beauties of SC4 is that you decide when you've won. It's entirely open ended, and you can do (nearly) anything you can imagine.

I've also always loved the "Challenge everything" bit  :P

I don't care about realism in buildings while playing SC4, but I wish the game had better realism when it comes to civic buildings.  A town of 14K should not require multiple police departments, fire departments, or schools. 

Depends. There are mods out there with larger radius and/or capacity civic buildings. I tend to use those in general ;)

Quote from: MandelSoft on January 21, 2013, 03:14:45 AM
Depends. There are mods out there with larger radius and/or capacity civic buildings. I tend to use those in general ;)

I use them as well.  I use a hospital that gives almost total coverage of a large city tile as well, which is nice.

I just have a quick question for non-South Africans who have looked at the prices for this rip off...

The Digital Deluxe Edition (with all the additional sets) is R 520.15 (discounted from R577.95). This translates to USD $58.13 / EUR €43.20 as of a minute ago.

Is this what you're paying in the US / EU?

Quote from: M4346 on January 28, 2013, 02:57:48 AM
I just have a quick question for non-South Africans who have looked at the prices for this rip off...

The Digital Deluxe Edition (with all the additional sets) is R 520.15 (discounted from R577.95). This translates to USD $58.13 / EUR €43.20 as of a minute ago.

Is this what you're paying in the US / EU?

I think that's actually less than what we're normally paying in the EU. The Digital Deluxe version in Belgium is €80 (107 US$), the Limited Edition is €60 (80 US$).

Quote from: CasperVg on January 28, 2013, 03:03:45 AM
I think that's actually less than what we're normally paying in the EU. The Digital Deluxe version in Belgium is €80 (107 US$), the Limited Edition is €60 (80 US$).

That's what I thought... makes no sense!  ()what()

It does make sense: markets. They presume Europeans are ready to spend 80 bucks on their stuff. I assume overall cost of living is lower in ZA.


Cheers
Willy

In New Zealand

SimCity 4 Deluxe (UK Version) will cost me $49.99 (30.85 EURO / 41.51 US)

SimCity 2013 (Limited) will cost me $88.49 (54.62 EURO /  73.47 US)

-catty

If the game was worth anything I'd say we're having it quite good in South Africa then!

But, then again, this should be juxtaposed against the very steep cost of bandwidth. I guess that makes a significant difference.

QuoteThe SimCity franchise, starting with SimCity Societies, has become a patronising, condescending gaming entity that underestimates my intelligence and ability, and pretends to know what is in my best interest and what I should need, want or pursue.

That happened before Societies. While they are under-estimating many people's intelligence they aren't underestimating the intelligence of the majority of their players. I also tend to get somewhat resentful when things like that are, for lack of any better way to describe it, I feel like someone's cramming something down my throat. Maxis started doing that with Sims2Pack files.

Imagine how I felt when I decided to rebuild my SC4 plug-ins folder which was already requiring a major commitment just to take on the task when during the installation of the plugins I was forced to use thousands of self-installers, many of which insisted on opening an HTML document with the read-me. I'm a reasonably intelligent person and if I decide not to read a readme when I install a file but need it later I will track that read-me down to the original archive I downloaded. At the same time I've also been on the creating end of that process and I can begin to imagine the frustrations that drove those creators to finally using a self-extractor. Even with read-mes at their fingertips there's a good number of people who will not refer back to them (probably didn't even realize they existed in the first place) but instead run to a forum to ask why something isn't working properly. These are the people EA deals with constantly. The sad fact is, the majority of people do want their hands held. They do want told what to do and how to do it. They don't want to have to think about how to have fun--those people are in the minority and usually the ones who turn out to be content creators of one type or another.

In the end EA doesn't care about me or anyone of us who might feel like this new game isn't targeting us. We are not significant. The important thing is that they make this game appeal to the broadest audience possible and that's what they believe they are doing. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen, but for now that's where they are.

Quote from: catty on January 28, 2013, 09:25:48 AM
In New Zealand

SimCity 4 Deluxe (UK Version) will cost me $49.99 (30.85 EURO / 41.51 US)

SimCity 2013 (Limited) will cost me $88.49 (54.62 EURO /  73.47 US)

-catty

You don't have Steam in NZ? SimCity4 deluxe is 19.99

(Come to think of it that was what I paid instore WAY back when I bought Deluxe)

Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that I got into the SimCity (2013) Closed Dev. Beta.

I can't say more other than I'm in it at this point in time, but I'll keep you posted on any details that emerge!

If you have any concerns about the game that you want to address, let me know and I'll forward it to the developers.

Quote from: nettronic on February 02, 2013, 05:14:05 PM

Quote from: catty on January 28, 2013, 09:25:48 AM
In New Zealand

SimCity 4 Deluxe (UK Version) will cost me $49.99 (30.85 EURO / 41.51 US)

SimCity 2013 (Limited) will cost me $88.49 (54.62 EURO /  73.47 US)

-catty

You don't have Steam in NZ? SimCity4 deluxe is 19.99

(Come to think of it that was what I paid instore WAY back when I bought Deluxe)

Go to

http://store.steampowered.com/

you mean, then yes

but I prefer to buy disks wherever possible, I bought Cities XL 2011 and Cities XL 2012 from Gamersgate about six months ago and I'm still downloading them ...

-catty

Surprise surprise; SimCity Will have an In-Game Store (http://www.webpronews.com/simcity-will-have-an-in-game-store-2013-02).

Did not see that coming . . right &sly

I'm going to call it now: modding unlock pack: €15/15$/£12

Quote from: WC_EEND on February 05, 2013, 08:42:25 AM
I'm going to call it now: modding unlock pack: €15/15$/£12

Not sure that will happen because if EA did unlock modding, DLC revenue would dry up very quickly.  I believe EA when they say modding will be available; however, its going to be a modding community that keeps picking at our pockets (like TF2).  I don't think free modding will exists since EA will probably make everyone sell through the in-game store.

Quote from: Cod on February 10, 2013, 12:48:38 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on February 05, 2013, 08:42:25 AM
I'm going to call it now: modding unlock pack: €15/15$/£12

Not sure that will happen because if EA did unlock modding, DLC revenue would dry up very quickly.  I believe EA when they say modding will be available; however, its going to be a modding community that keeps picking at our pockets (like TF2).  I don't think free modding will exists since EA will probably make everyone sell through the in-game store.

And that is why the game won't survive. Why do you think SC4 is thriving 10 years later?

Quote from: Diggis on February 10, 2013, 01:28:34 PM

Quote from: Cod on February 10, 2013, 12:48:38 PM

Quote from: WC_EEND on February 05, 2013, 08:42:25 AM
I'm going to call it now: modding unlock pack: €15/15$/£12

Not sure that will happen because if EA did unlock modding, DLC revenue would dry up very quickly.  I believe EA when they say modding will be available; however, its going to be a modding community that keeps picking at our pockets (like TF2).  I don't think free modding will exists since EA will probably make everyone sell through the in-game store.

And that is why the game won't survive. Why do you think SC4 is thriving 10 years later?

I completely agree with you.  All the SC 2013 talk online has got me reinstalling SC4 right now actually...

I predict that some adventurous and skilled BATters who have both games may even try to BAT some SC2013 buildings into SC4 just to make them usable, if you know what I mean.  :)

I'm hanging onto SC4 and have no plans to buy SC2013 at the moment.  I agree with those here who say the new game is for a new group of players rather than us.  Ever since SC:S came out, I've thought that EA viewed the SC4 players (and the players of the earlier SC's) as a "fringe group" that it wants to get rid of.  It would seem as though they've succeeded insomuch as they've driven some of us away from playing the new game, or at the very least they've kept us from abandoning SC4.

Quote from: metarvo on February 10, 2013, 06:51:59 PM
I predict that some adventurous and skilled BATters who have both games may even try to BAT some SC2013 buildings into SC4 just to make them usable, if you know what I mean.  :)

I'm hanging onto SC4 and have no plans to buy SC2013 at the moment.  I agree with those here who say the new game is for a new group of players rather than us.  Ever since SC:S came out, I've thought that EA viewed the SC4 players (and the players of the earlier SC's) as a "fringe group" that it wants to get rid of.  It would seem as though they've succeeded insomuch as they've driven some of us away from playing the new game, or at the very least they've kept us from abandoning SC4.

Heck, it's got a number of us returning to SC4. I freely admit I returned here seeking information on the new game and got reinfected with SC4.  ()sick() [size=78%] Turns out it's more virulent[/size][size=78%] that I thought.[/size]

Quote from: metarvo on February 10, 2013, 06:51:59 PM
....  I agree with those here who say the new game is for a new group of players rather than us.  Ever since SC:S came out, I've thought that EA viewed the SC4 players (and the players of the earlier SC's) as a "fringe group" that it wants to get rid of.  ...

Let's just say that the new game that some still insist on calling real simulator is intended to reach an audience more "profitable" and if it does not exist in large number a EA  already taking steps to increase it.

::)  - SimCity Coming to Classrooms With SimCityEDU (http://www.webpronews.com/simcity-coming-to-classrooms-with-simcityedu-2013-01)


If this gonna work with this genre of game only the future can tell. I have my doubts.! &mmm

I kind of agree with this. SC4 is more of a macro game whereas SC13 is more micro. If you want to use the game to learn about 'civics' then I agree it could be a learning tool.

I remember back in my Grade 7 class I played SC3000 for a school project. :P

And what could be better for learning about real-life civics than this?

QuoteThe "Heroes and Villains" set will allow players to have organized crime groups in their cities and provide the ability to upgrade police squads into superheroes. A "criminal mastermind" can be placed in a city using the "Dr. Vu's Evil Lair" object, which will provide plenty of high-tech development for the city until autonomous flying battle tanks begin to destroy it.

I'm sure the educational version won't have that expansion pack in it.

...One of the cheesiest things I've ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-GjTN5IVs

Quote from: Haljackey on February 11, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
...One of the cheesiest things I've ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-GjTN5IVs

It looks like a very cute kids' game.

Quote from: z on February 11, 2013, 09:49:38 PM

Quote from: Haljackey on February 11, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
...One of the cheesiest things I've ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-GjTN5IVs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-GjTN5IVs)

It looks like a very cute kids' game.

I was playing City of Heroes for 4 years before they shut it down....

Quote from: Diggis
Yeah, it's basically a crime mod, which eradicates minor crime but increases major super villain crimes. A modded search light appears atop your main police station

I bet that's gonna be in the toy pack.

Just saw one of the new Simcity videos posted by one of Maxis's Developers: Ocean Quigley. It's a mining city, with lots and lots and lots of mines. But wait, if you pay close attention what's in the background at the top-right corner of the screen, you'll see something familiar. Hint: It's ontop of a mesa, or is it a geological feature at all?

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOynSnxEQ8




Well played Maxis.......well played....

Not to mention the environmental conscientization! O.Q. seems to be really optimistic because this is more greenish industrial area I've ever seen!  ()stsfd()

Sure, they actually send me a key, but right before it ends! Ahhhhh! Not funny guys, not funny. I just had to not be available because of RL.

Video of the last 10 mins or so of my very first time playing SC13.

While this was filmed during the first closed beta, Maxis/EA now confirms that closed beta material is fine to make public.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Y-bNCQQwWL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-bNCQQwWL0

I'd love to show you guys stuff from the Dev. Beta, but I still can't make that content public. Perhaps I can when it ends or when the game comes out.

Decided to make this video public after some restrictions were lifted for the Dev. Beta's EULA

I think it's going viral now, so not sure if it will be taken down by EA :P

http://www.youtube.com/v/5gXBfzL7cZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gXBfzL7cZw

Quoteso not sure if it will be taken down by EA

I hate to say it, I feel like I see some resemblance to SC4, maybe some of the buildings, or resemblance to the T-ram, with your play-thru, but seriously, thanks for taking one for the team by sharing, not to mention compromising your own YT, because I'm not too sure, and do not want to find out what happens after someone orders a cease and desist, I thought that happened to one or some SC13 beta videos already, and especially not to mention how your account is affected after something is flagged, or restricted, since College and other invovlment, I have known way too many who have had stuff like that happen to them.

However, considering not everyone got into it, it's always handy to know someone they can trust, had the experience so they can already deterimine if coughing up basically Eighty $ (for the full game) is going to be worth it. Again, thanks for taking a chance to share.

Okay, after watching I've to admit I kinda get Maxis now, when they said the city feels bigger when you're on streetlevel. Some of the views at 9min are pretty neat and the different datalayers look nice as well. Then again, the view at 11:30 perfectly encapsulates all the sacrifices made at regional level. Such a shame. . .  ()sad()

Arcologies are back! &dance
If I'll buy the game, I'll fill the map with arcologies ;D

Quote from: Terring7 on February 26, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
Arcologies are back! &dance
If I'll buy the game, I'll fill the map with arcologies ;D

You can only build 1 per region at the great works location.


Jdub: rules have been laxed and I'm in good standing with the community/developers. Either-way, they would have taken the video down by now if they wanted to :P

Nope, the game still looks like a child's playset so it still sucks. A few features isn't going to redeem this and its many other flaws.  :thumbsdown:

So...that train crossing the Highway at 1:40: wth?!  Is there anything that can be done about that or is that part of the uneditable 'region'?

So there's another beta tomorrow... for a 4 hour window. I'm in it... looking forward on seeing what they've fixed since the Dev. Beta.

Speaking of the Dev. Beta, I decided to make more more vid since my other one wasn't taken down:

http://www.youtube.com/v/cJNqrR6Fzqs

http://youtu.be/cJNqrR6Fzqs

Thanks for posting the videos. I agree that at streetlevel it looks kina intriguing. I wouldn't say beautiful but I can see the potential. The region view and the ridiculous building design ruins it for me, though.

Also I do not like all the green spacees in the downtown. Is it even possible to build a dense concrete jungle as a downtown?

Wow! This new version has a lot more gunfire than SC4 did (or at least than I'm used to) did any of you see them release this preview?

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/YxatpreNCLI

Hey guys I streamed the 4 hour unrestricted closed beta 3. You can watch it beginning with part 1 here: http://www.twitch.tv/haljackey/c/1972341#.US7o2YUPMjQ.twitter

My first commentary with the full game. I end up giving more praise to NAM 31 than a whole new 'revolutionary' game.

http://www.twitch.tv/haljackey/b/374347165


EDIT: Youtube.

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/jKs6x-SA_mA
http://youtu.be/jKs6x-SA_mA

Quote from: Haljackey on March 05, 2013, 09:46:55 PM
My first commentary with the full game. I end up giving more praise to NAM 31 than a whole new 'revolutionary' game.

http://www.twitch.tv/haljackey/b/374347165


EDIT: Youtube.

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/jKs6x-SA_mA
http://youtu.be/jKs6x-SA_mA

It sucks that you lost that region, but one thing I noticed is that your fire trucks never left the fire house which is probably why your buildings kept burning down.

Definitely a lot of glitches...won't be buying this game any time soon.

Hal, ALL the traffic was going on just the innermost lane toward the island, then immediately flipping a u-ie to get to stuff on the other side of the road. That's why the traffic was so bad that your fire trucks were stuck (as was the garbage truck that came to collect garbage).

Ya, I was planning on adding intersections and stuff when I expanded my road system... Doesn't matter anyway because Origin lost my city...  &mmm

I forgot to ask, where did you get that shift window program and would it work with SC4?

Haljackey, nice video it really gives a good idea of the game.  I can't say I was dissapointed becuase I did not expect much from the game, but it really leaves a lot to be desired.  The city tiles are tiny, thats enough for me to not want to play it let alone the online part.  I was curious about it, but after watching your video I have completley lost interst.  Thanks for saving me the money!

Thanks for that Hal, just confirmed I don't want any part of this. After having SG, Cal, CSX et al's items in my Plugins for so long, I could never settle for the graphics of this game.

There are definitely things I like about this game, the upgrading public services for one, without having to build a million schools/hospitals/PDs/FDs. Being able to upgrade roads sections at a time, not having to have water pipes, power poles, and all the data views and city specialization. But having to be online, at the mercy of a server and all the other stuff....no thanx. Would be so much nicer, since they've abandoned the "old" SimCity style to release all the source code so the SC4 communities can have full control of the game.

Quote from: Grneyes on March 06, 2013, 11:20:43 AM
I forgot to ask, where did you get that shift window program and would it work with SC4?

Ah good question. Right here: http://www.grismar.net/shiftwindow/

Made a thread for it on ST if you have any questions/comments about using it for SC13: http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/54264-found-a-way-to-enable-windowed-fullscreen-mode/

Not sure if it will work for SC4, I play that windowed but with a fullscreen resolution no problem.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 06, 2013, 06:00:35 PM

Quote from: Grneyes on March 06, 2013, 11:20:43 AM
I forgot to ask, where did you get that shift window program and would it work with SC4?

Ah good question. Right here: http://www.grismar.net/shiftwindow/

Made a thread for it on ST if you have any questions/comments about using it for SC13: http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/54264-found-a-way-to-enable-windowed-fullscreen-mode/

Not sure if it will work for SC4, I play that windowed but with a fullscreen resolution no problem.

How do you do that? Mine is never full screen. It's very annoying.

There's actually a better program out there called windowedborderlassgaming. It's a tiny little app that sits in your system tray - hit F3 while the windowed game is active and voila! Windowed fullscreen - and it does work with SC4, though on a multimonitor setup the edge scrolling can be a bit difficult on the dge that has another monitor next to it.

You can get it from this thread (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2675769) on the Steam forums.

Fixed your URL. - Diggis

Don't have the game? Don't worry, you're not missing much. This is what my game looks like today:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BEyMo3sCMAAFD5c.jpg:large)

Later:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FBEyRScUCUAEIGuk.jpg%3Alarge&hash=b8142550450f1250654b984b7a4fc470959a8f91)

---

Although I did manage to play it a bit yesterday and it was actually stable for the first time. Decided to stream it and it attracted the attention of some big names including Dirk, the Simtropolis Webmaster.

View here if interested: http://www.twitch.tv/haljackey/b/374689107 (or youtube if you have issues: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3Yl0lRNSH1j1bsYd3JFW4vX6FRPwDRtn)

---

Overall I bought the game as a kind of 'thank you' to Maxis for giving me access to the Dev. Beta and being serious about addressing the problems I indicated to them. I got the 'limited edition' which is a step below 'digital deluxe' which is a step below 'collectors edition'. (Oh, and there's a regular version too...)

Fun fact: That 1 and only highway interchange wouldn't be in the game if it wasn't for me... Hit them hard about that and they finally replaced the intersection with an interchange. Doesn't look that great, but at least it's there.

:newbie: ()testing() :angrymore:  __ This having problems with your purchase ( or better saying their lease )... do not worry the "publishing housEA"  publicly assured your refund!


More information just read - - about  refund   - (http://www.gamechup.com/ea-refuses-to-refund-user-for-simcity-threatens-account-ban/) :P ()what() %ban% :o &ops :'( 


Definitely the new world of the games is insane ... to say the least.!

%%Order?/ &hlp   %$payas)(  ... your money  :wings:  ...  and they  :P :D :D :D

I am so glad I didn't waste my money on this fiasco.  Feel sorry for all you guys that did buy it and can't play it though.  ()sad()

Not to mention that EA's being downright adversarial about this whole thing IMHO.  Of course, there was all the tension over the beta.  In addition, I read in the NAM Dev. thread earlier that they're acting really funny about people uploading SC4 videos to Youtube.  I've also heard that SimCity 1 (SNES) has been removed from the Wii Virtual Console.  Did Nintendo choose to do this, or did EA force them to?  Is EA afraid of any SimCity game that might be better than SC 2013, ranging from Classic all the way up to SC4?  :blahblah:

Quote from: metarvo on March 08, 2013, 05:22:17 AM
Not to mention that EA's being downright adversarial about this whole thing IMHO.  Of course, there was all the tension over the beta.  In addition, I read in the NAM Dev. thread earlier that they're acting really funny about people uploading SC4 videos to Youtube.  I've also heard that SimCity 1 (SNES) has been removed from the Wii Virtual Console.  Did Nintendo choose to do this, or did EA force them to?  Is EA afraid of any SimCity game that might be better than SC 2013, ranging from Classic all the way up to SC4?  :blahblah:

I think what you mean is: Have EA realised that all SimCity games are better than SC2013, from Classic all the way up to SC4?

I have changed my mind about buying Sc2013. The price tag of € 80,00 for the version which include the Euro buildingsets is waaaaay overpriced. That combined with the problems with the servers and the much too small city tiles turned me of badly. I'll give this a look a year or so from now. In the mean time I play EVE online and Simcity4.

3/8/13, the first headliner on the Yahoo! home page:
http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/simcity-launch-complete-disaster-201105322.html

Are the servers still down/busy? Has anyone been able to play at all today?

I saw this thing on the shelf yesterday. I bought The Sims 3 University Life Expansion Pack next to it instead. :D

Finally the servers are starting to become stable... for now.

Got a couple hours of play in tonight. Here's one of my best pics form the full game.

Click for full size!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FHaljackey%2FInterchange%2Fspark_2013-03-08_20-53-02.jpg&hash=c9592251454c77901ee59a45b275764ee8e81ce4) (http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Haljackey/Interchange/spark_2013-03-08_20-53-02.jpg)

Quote from: Haljackey on March 08, 2013, 11:27:41 PM
Finally the servers are starting to become stable... for now.

Yeah, it's only five days too late and still not the full game.

Even if they get all the new servers up and running and everything starts working properly re connecting online, I've been watching some youtube videos that have started to show up a lot of bugs and some very nasty problems with the traffic simulator, on top of which they still have the issue of all these kind of articles "SimCity debacle grows" that are now out there, that all their potential customers are likely to read

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10870214

And that's from one of the main papers in New Zealand.

-catty

This is just like a row of dominoes.  One by one, they tumble down, and the rate of speed is increasing.  Now the media's against EA and Maxis, in addition to the players.  This isn't just about SimCity, either, although I perceive that it's the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  I'm noticing a lot of built-up disappointment over Madden and other EA games being vented suddenly.  It looks like EA's already made a go at sinking the SimCity franchise, but I'm seriously starting to think that they'll sink with it at this rate.  With all of the refunds and make-good offers, coupled with curtailed sales, is Chapter 11 too far away?  Don't get me wrong; I'm not wishing that on them at all, but it's just a thought.  Is this Atari territory?

i dont think Chapter 11 is on the cards.. from looking around IMO the game sales were enormous. this game made them a lot of money already by the looks of it.

IMO it's reputation, PR and product problems that's going to hurt them. Maxis doesnt look like the sweet small company owned by the mean-angry bad EA.... they are just as sinister as their masters.

will there be an expansion/sequel to this game? most definately. but im not sure which way they will go with it. the next 12 months will give us some insight into that, and the future. IMO if the hate is relentless for 12 months, they will ditch it.

the next big eye-opener on the horizon we are all waiting to see is DLC and Modability. im starting to think they are looking at the LEX/STEX concept as marketplace, and as a juicy cash cow, instead of a showcase of creativity and sharing.

Is it me or is it just a little ironic that in order to combat server problems the 'social multiplayer' features have been turned off temporarily?! I mean, those are the exact features which Maxis/EA listed as reason for the always online requirement in the first place!  ::)

Ah well, as I said elsewhere already, let's hope about a decade from now EA will have pulled the plug on the servers and released an offline patch and with some modding tools, it'll be a decent game after all. . .


On a sidenote, Haljackey's pic is the most decent I've seen so far though that busstop sign is humongous!!  :o

Quote from: vortext on March 10, 2013, 05:59:59 AM
On a sidenote, Haljackey's pic is the most decent I've seen so far though that busstop sign is humongous!!  :o

Ya SC13 is a little over-scaled... doesn't help when we have small tiles to work with :P

Just look at this image. Check out the comparable sizes of the light rail sign to the houses, the garbage cans to sims, the grass, etc. Click for full size:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE1lCl6a.jpg&hash=6e8b5946004ca82e1ea01d978e71b9be8d691fce) (http://i.imgur.com/E1lCl6a.jpg)

Here's my review of the review of the game. (Audio only but worth a listen)

http://www.youtube.com/v/gxp73e6nPt4
http://youtu.be/gxp73e6nPt4

EA's shares have fallen along with sales over the last 5 years ,most Gamers like myself have passed recent titles because there either bugged or reduced so you have to DLC the content that was in the previous games.    Its ridiculous , and its why i'm currently playing other games from companies that respect consumers like SCS Software which has so far listened to us every step of the way.   We even get a say in game expansions...   This is what Maxis/EA should be doing , but I doubt they will...

I do like their implementation of irregular lots, curvy roads, and tram-in-road, based on what I've seen from user videos.

That said, the rest of it looks like complete nonsense when put against the 80 Euro (appx $104 USD) price tag (was it really that much Serkanner?) and inability to access the servers which are the only means to play the game. I've never been a fan of this new method of game delivery, and this demonstrates the reason why.

Haljackey, nice picture you posted, however:

Quote from: Haljackey on March 08, 2013, 11:27:41 PM

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FHaljackey%2FInterchange%2Fspark_2013-03-08_20-53-02.jpg&hash=c9592251454c77901ee59a45b275764ee8e81ce4) (http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Haljackey/Interchange/spark_2013-03-08_20-53-02.jpg)

If it's unedited, the signs on those three apartments are amusingly ironic when seen in connection with the recent game news.
-Matt

Quote from: threestooges on March 10, 2013, 09:30:20 AM
That said, the rest of it looks like complete nonsense when put against the 80 Euro (appx $104 USD) price tag (was it really that much Serkanner?)

I am not Serkanner, but being European as well, I feel like I am qualified to answer this as well.

Standard/Limited Edition: €59
Collector's Edition: €69
Digital Deluxe Edition (Origin only): €79

Xander

Quote from: Haljackey on March 10, 2013, 08:38:58 AM
Ya SC13 is a little over-scaled... doesn't help when we have small tiles to work with :P

Just look at this image. Check out the comparable sizes of the light rail sign to the houses, the garbage cans to sims, the grass, etc.

To me it looks like Maxis designed all the buildings, sims, vehicles and roads to proper scale, and then when they went to add in the frills like signs, light poles, and environmental details someone said, "Hey, there's no frikkin' way the player is going to see or read any of this stuff unless we scale it up by at least a third!" And, since most of that stuff is more than just eye candy (i.e. the player does need visual cues as to where bus stops are and when garbage is overflowing into the streets), practicality won out over realism.

At least they didn't go and re-scale the roads and buildings - then the city tiles would feel even more cramped.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 10, 2013, 11:24:01 AM

Quote from: threestooges on March 10, 2013, 09:30:20 AM
That said, the rest of it looks like complete nonsense when put against the 80 Euro (appx $104 USD) price tag (was it really that much Serkanner?)

I am not Serkanner, but being European as well, I feel like I am qualified to answer this as well.

Standard/Limited Edition: €59
Collector's Edition: €69
Digital Deluxe Edition (Origin only): €79

Xander

Bonkers. Back in the day games were only slightly more expensive than CDs.


Cheers
Willy

So, I bought SimCity today and spent most of the afternoon playing it. I have to admit, I was quite skeptical about the game.
The online play aspect is really quite nifty and well thought out. the way each city can interact with eachother and help out is well thought out and almost makes up for the fact that it is in essence concealed DRM. The road/railroad/tram track tool is really well thought out and works really well for both wide radius curves and normal useage.
Full disclosure: I played in a private game with a friend of mine, so not random stangers.

Now, there are some annoyances as well:

- City tiles are too small, especially when compared to the size of something like the sports stadium or convention centre.
- Some services start behaving quite oddly once your city gets bigger (like fire trucks standing next to a burning building but doing nothing)
- There are still some grahpical glitches
- No terraforming (somewhat offset by having city tiles of differing geography)
- bulldozing is one building at a time

Xander

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 11, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
The online play aspect is really quite nifty and well thought out. the way each city can interact with eachother and help out is well thought out and almost makes up for the fact that it is in essence concealed DRM.

Online games such as Farmville been doing that for years....

On the scale issue, we had a good discussion about SC4 scale in 3RR a while back.  From the sound of things, these issues haven't gone away in the new game, so I guess scale is a no-win issue in SimCity.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPLQCmIUh.jpg&hash=470816dace05b882311a379c31c57b1e90281f9d)

Yup, scale still seems to be hard to nail down!  ::)

I might buy this once they get all the bugs and graphic glitches worked out.....IF they work them out.....and get back cheetah speed!

Vortex, those colors, although not as vibrant, seem to make a not as fake feel to it, as for the scale, the one thing is the amount of land considered for the parking situation. The scale of that bridge is so much more subtle than what those guys on plastation's version did, with their steep hill overpass system. At least SimCity 2013 has traffic signals.


The most common game mechanic game complaint I have been hearing is, the amount of money you spend on countless fire stations you build, that does not stop the constant reoccurance of pyro maniacs, in any event, I hear that your city gets constantly set ablaze, this 2013 version, and the facebook version.

Quote from: j-dub on March 11, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
The most common game mechanic game complaint I have been hearing is, the amount of money you spend on countless fire stations you build, that does not stop the constant reoccurance of pyro maniacs, in any event, I hear that your city gets constantly set ablaze, this 2013 version, and the facebook version.

That is very true, and more often than not the fire department is either stuck in traffic or is looking at the fire without actually putting it out, resulting in half a neighborhood burning down.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 10, 2013, 08:38:58 AM

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE1lCl6a.jpg&hash=6e8b5946004ca82e1ea01d978e71b9be8d691fce) (http://i.imgur.com/E1lCl6a.jpg)

When I see images from SC2013 like this all I can think is:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg261.imageshack.us%2Fimg261%2F1084%2Fmjjjjjbc3.jpg&hash=41df12a87e69b96ac0ee7f1e23f40ba43ac12541)

You're doing it wrong....

And that's no comment on your abilities in game Hal, just the style of the game. All level of detail is lost. It doesn't appeal to the model rail roader in me.

Well one thing you need to do if you're comparing SC4 to SC13 is look at the out-of-the-box game with no mods, including Rush Hour.
-Still, even 90 degree rail curves weren't possible in vanilla SC4.

I have weeded out comparing the two games in my mind, as SC13 is should be not be treated as a sequel or successor to SC4. In a sense I kind of like the the contrast between the two, but overall am still disappointed with the game as it could have been much more.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
Well one thing you need to do if you're comparing SC4 to SC13 is look at the out-of-the-box game with no mods, including Rush Hour.
-Still, even 90 degree rail curves weren't possible in vanilla SC4.

I have weeded out comparing the two games in my mind, as SC13 is should be not be treated as a sequel or successor to SC4. In a sense I kind of like the the contrast between the two, but overall am still disappointed with the game as it could have been much more.

While I agree that it's unfair to compare the vanilla games... however, due to the lack of modability I doubt it ever will.

Quote from: threestooges on March 10, 2013, 09:30:20 AM

That said, the rest of it looks like complete nonsense when put against the 80 Euro (appx $104 USD) price tag (was it really that much Serkanner?)

Yes.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv75%2FNicolaiS%2Fsimcity_prijs_zps8d2a1890.jpg&hash=978d19ee25435633bbfb7d06652cd61d1b011504)

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
Well one thing you need to do if you're comparing SC4 to SC13 is look at the out-of-the-box game with no mods, including Rush Hour.
-Still, even 90 degree rail curves weren't possible in vanilla SC4.

I have weeded out comparing the two games in my mind, as SC13 is should be not be treated as a sequel or successor to SC4. In a sense I kind of like the the contrast between the two, but overall am still disappointed with the game as it could have been much more.

Both having the title "Simcity" leads one to believe the game IS a sequel or successor.  I cannot see why anyone would pay for a game that requires you to be online to play it. 

Than, if you do any console gaming, consider they have previously pulled the same thing I did not expect. I wouldn't be surprised if any other later EA titles will be the same, considering SC is not their first online only, as it is already, if you can not connect on the console, you can not play, thus, WTH should we pay? (censored) you EA.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
Well one thing you need to do if you're comparing SC4 to SC13 is look at the out-of-the-box game with no mods, including Rush Hour.
-Still, even 90 degree rail curves weren't possible in vanilla SC4.

This is very true and something people tend to forget quite easily. I mean, SC4 when it orgininally launched was nothing like the way it is today.

Now, there definitely are some flaws with SC2013, but I think it gets some unfair bashing because everyone expected wanted it to be like SC4 only with full 3D graphics. Maxis hasn't done that and now we have a game that is SimCity but isn't an SC4 successor in the literal sense. For me it'll largely depend on what EA plans to do with it now. If they plan on using the DLC milking model here, it'll kill the game, however if they release (paid) expansions that contribute signifcantly to the gameplay and continue fixing bugs, I see no problem with the DLC model.
I was veeeery skeptical about it (€60 price wasn't helping) and I have come to the conclusion it is actually a pretty good game (albeit with some issues like city tiles that are too small, achievements not syncing between servers, having to re-play the tutorial when switching servers, overpriced police/hospital/fire department and fires that break out much too often)

Xander

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM-Still, even 90 degree rail curves weren't possible in vanilla SC4.

What's a 90 degree rail curve? Sounds painful to me.


Cheers
Willy

Quote from: callagrafx on March 12, 2013, 11:21:16 AM
[  I cannot see why anyone would pay for a game that requires you to be online to play it.

Good point ..  it is because the vast majority do not read the details before purchase and people just have had the exact notion of what it represented because of the chaos that was established at launch ..


Much of complaints from consumers (buyers) of the game say they do not know they were buying a  simcity "MMO" and  was not for nothing that the petition against a DRM jumped from 8 to 50 thousand signatures in five days.


It was the first time that EA did this?...  We know we shall not!


It will be the last time that will happen?... I doubt it!


In fact while there is expansion in the market for new (and unwary) players with access to the network  fixed  and mobile all this is forgotten and this scheme "gold mine" tends to proliferate.


That's the bet that guided the gods(*) of  the gaming market since the beginning and unfortunately seems that really was the winning bet.


* (As for utopian statement that they would change the world)

Maxis Insider Tells RPS: SimCity Servers Not Necessary (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/12/simcity-server-not-necessary/) &sly

I guess something's going right; the game is sold out at the local Wal-Mart.  While I still probably won't play it, I can see that it could become a good game in its own right.  Although, as others have said, it's no SC4, but our SC4 is a whole new game as well when compared to the vanilla release.  The idea that it should be compared to vanilla SC4 instead of our SC4 is a good point.

 Goona shell out 100 bucks on games this month... hope at least one of them works the way it's supposed to.  :P

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUmBDfr5.jpg&hash=d35bc5173e220dccb729500b6b328af5f1e55108)

($60 for SimCity, $40 for Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm)


By the way, If you want to take back the game and Origin denies you a refund, call your bank/credit card company and have them charge-back your purchase. You are entitled to your money back since EA is based in the US... But they'll ban your Origin account. A class-action lawsuit may take place due to this legal dispute. What's the point of paying $60 for a half-done game you can't even play?

Several features like cheetah speed and private region mode are still disabled for me... They are dropping several non-core features to stabilize their servers.

Corners Cut (http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/td-p/737060)

It may be the only way they could deliever what they promised, but this game is just a disaster.

Quote from: vortext on March 11, 2013, 12:48:21 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPLQCmIUh.jpg&hash=470816dace05b882311a379c31c57b1e90281f9d)

Yup, scale still seems to be hard to nail down!  ::)

That is beyond awful.  Cringe-worthy.


David

Quote from: dedgren on March 12, 2013, 11:41:04 PMThat is beyond awful.  Cringe-worthy.David

Funny, it looks just like CitiesXL... a few years ago. Sad we couldn't have expected more.

Quote from: kassarc16 on March 12, 2013, 11:24:53 PM
Corners Cut (http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/td-p/737060)

It may be the only way they could deliever what they promised, but this game is just a disaster.

They made a big deal about how this simulator was smarter than the previous versions but by the sounds of that post it's a huge step back!

Quote from: Diggis on March 13, 2013, 02:48:28 AM

Quote from: kassarc16 on March 12, 2013, 11:24:53 PM
Corners Cut (http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/td-p/737060)

It may be the only way they could deliever what they promised, but this game is just a disaster.

They made a big deal about how this simulator was smarter than the previous versions but by the sounds of that post it's a huge step back!

I remember all the complaints about the traffic simulator when SC4 first came out, and reading the list here, it's déjà vu all over again. ::)

Maxis never did fix the SC4 traffic simulator, of course.  I wonder what that bodes for the new one... :-\

Quote from: Diggis on March 13, 2013, 02:48:28 AM
They made a big deal about how this simulator was smarter than the previous versions but by the sounds of that post it's a huge step back!

In some ways it is, but in others it's just as daft as original SC4 simulator. I do personally think the data views are considerably better though.
Priority #1 for EA/Maxis should be fixing the bugs and lowering the prices of fire departments (having fires when you can't afford a fire station yet is annoying to say the least, especially because fires are so common).

edit: something I've really grown to hate is that my emergency servcies will stop at red lights. When half my residential zone is on fire, there are other priorities than stopping at red lights.

Also, thanks for the link kassarc16, really insightful and it matches my experience so far.

Xander

Well .. it seems that "some" are unhappy with the direction of this whole story!

Who have helped to post this??

   :o   Inflated artificial population code  (https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5133829#file-simcityui-js-L8510)-

Up to 5000 effective population
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTKbmTZR.png&hash=53b61e7f6a78103cc1c886bfd3ef7655dd3849db)

Up to 50000 effective population
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOApQPON.png&hash=30d85aa94b069004adec6321673e807c60908b23)

It seems that the excuse of having a real simulation to justify the resources suppressed with Reboot for the new game is slowly crumbling!

:(   - MISLEADING REGARDING POPULATION COUNT.. (http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a6oeo/proof_that_the_game_is_misleading_regarding/)

  :(  -  Freight/industry/commercial "bugs" explained (http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9360169.page)

   :( - Traffic "AI"... This is why services and traffic are broken! (http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/td-p/737060/highlight/false/page/20)

So what is left is what everyone already knew ... be just an addition to kick upwards ORIGIN as all that the "publisher housEA" has done before and will continue doing.

"$Deal"$ &mmm     - Simcity server not necessary (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/12/simcity-server-not-necessary/) -  ()what() 


That was the fate of Simcity ... &mmm &cry2 ()sad()   &sly   :'(



meanwhile ... in the publisher housEA  &idea

- - "Dear shareholders :P  ... there comes another prize of the Worst Company of the year but do not worry ... Our numbers are going up :thumbsup: http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=EA (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=EA)

This is a crazy world! :D :D   :D


Note:  fight against DRM is total waste of time but for those who felt harmed by not knowing about the limitations this is a good path that should be followed by all countries.

"$Deal"$ :thumbsup:    -Force companies to change language from "buying" to "licensing" when dealing with DRM-restricted goods- (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/force-companies-change-language-buying-licensing-when-dealing-drm-restricted-goods/myq4rZjX)

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 11:06:29 PM
Goona shell out 100 bucks on games this month... hope at least one of them works the way it's supposed to.  :P

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUmBDfr5.jpg&hash=d35bc5173e220dccb729500b6b328af5f1e55108)

($60 for SimCity, $40 for Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm)


By the way, If you want to take back the game and Origin denies you a refund, call your bank/credit card company and have them charge-back your purchase. You are entitled to your money back since EA is based in the US... But they'll ban your Origin account. A class-action lawsuit may take place due to this legal dispute. What's the point of paying $60 for a half-done game you can't even play?

Several features like cheetah speed and private region mode are still disabled for me... They are dropping several non-core features to stabilize their servers.

So, wait, did you return the game?

Even though some are still having trouble with the game, others are enjoying it now, and many of the worst problems are being resolved.  So, I feel like the time has come for me to stop complaining about SC2013 or EA/Maxis for now.  ;)

Quote from: vortext on March 11, 2013, 12:48:21 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPLQCmIUh.jpg&hash=470816dace05b882311a379c31c57b1e90281f9d)

:o ...It's a diagonal bridge! :D

Quote from: Grneyes on March 13, 2013, 08:34:24 AM

So, wait, did you return the game?

I haven't, but luckily if I wanted to return it I don't have to deal with Origin since I bought a physical copy. Anyone who pre-ordered the game who did so on Origin are screwed at getting a refund unless they do what I indicated in my post above. I believe if you ordered it off Amazon they're actually accepting returns.

The whole way Amazon is handling this SimCity mess is quite impressive, and has made EA/Origin look embarrassing in terms of customer service. It hasn't really contributed much to their stock price, however.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 13, 2013, 10:04:36 AM

..... I believe if you ordered it off Amazon they're actually accepting returns.

The whole way Amazon is handling this SimCity mess is quite impressive...

Perhaps because Amazon sells and does not rent things and wisely  she wants to keep their "client buyer" happy and satisfied .


With respect to shareholders...that's exactly what I meant with the crazy world ...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkets.money.cnn.com%2Fservices%2Fapi%2Fchart%2Fsnapshot_chart_api.asp%3Fsymb%3DEA&hash=c9c2f0f7f37bd62439f3c390f819fcf75e22f682)


Weird things happen in these moments ...

"$Deal"$   - Is Electronic Arts Played-Out? (https://www.fool.com/shop/secure/order-00.aspx?company=Electronic+Arts&dc=b49d1895-2f83-4450-84ca-3df95668060b&headline=Is+Electronic+Arts+Played-Out?&k=lFTw3B60e1IOTOJ47YQI2Q&p=14.99&sf=newreport3&source=&ticker=EA) - and - A Huge Untapped Market (http://beta.fool.com/mhenage/2013/03/08/huge-untapped-market/26215/?logvisit=y&published=2013-03-08&source=eptcnnlnk0000001)

_________________________________

Again...  fight against DRM is total waste of time but for those who felt harmed by not knowing about the limitations this is a good path that should be followed by all countries.
"$Deal"$     - Force companies to change language from "buying" to "licensing" when dealing with DRM-restricted goods- (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/force-companies-change-language-buying-licensing-when-dealing-drm-restricted-goods/myq4rZjX)

()sad() Sad ... very, very sad!

The theme on - Inflated artificial population code - reminded me of a posting exchanged with MAxisGuillaume that fortunately reproduce here in December. -
topic=14437.msg443014 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14437.msg443014#msg443014)

->click to large<-
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZKtvQKNKkHE/UNM2q2QEzTI/AAAAAAAABiY/kRE1hE3JA1g/s640/RESPOSTA%2520MULTIPLO%2520SEIS%2520SIMCITY.jpg)

I did not know because it had disappeared from where I posted ... well it seems that now I know!


- Modification to have the real number of population -


How to mod simcity 2013 - getting started basics (http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a8bw7/how_to_mod_sim_city_2013_getting_started_basics/)

So, who knew a week after release the server issues were going to be the least of Maxis' problems?! For those who haven't kept track, it turns out the the Glasbox engine - the one thing I thought the new game still had going for itself - is poorly designed and/or implemented (check SimCity on Reddit for more (http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/)). Reports are coming in about fudged population count (really, the code for this actually says 'fudged population count'! Check NCGAIO posts below for more info) , horrible pathfinding which leads to all sorts of problems and now this.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOwPf8b1.jpg&hash=9539a51c9df356129bd5dc60f80fd483442ee5a6)

That's right, freeform, hand drawn regional highways are actually possible in debug mode, which has been unlocked, as well as unrestricted offline mode. . What's more, they show the same 'guidelines' as ordinary roads or avenues which really begs the question; why are cities restricted when it starts to become apparent regional play is in fact very much possible?! A number of answers come to mind.

- rushed development process to get the game released on time to push EA quarterly sale figures. From what I've read this wouldn't be the first time.

- regional possibilities (freeform highways, terraforming) are to be sold as DLC later on.

- the Glasbox engine really is so complicated Maxis hasn't quite grasped all its implications.

Most likely it's a combination of all of the above. That said, it's encouraging modding has already started. Lets just hope it will continue up to the point Maxis can't shut it down anymore.

A few more discoveries like the debug mode and I might actually buy this game.  :P

 :o  -  :D  No one can be  naive as to believe that all these points raised today were not fully aware of the creators and producers. ( E.All  )

Just read the countless articles spread on the network during the past year and the answers to every "why?" there are hidden between the lines.

But one of them I have to agree that was explicitly placed all very clearly and repeatedly stated on several of those occasions.


.                               .     (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-juO0biPk2Z0/UIHgEN5uGdI/AAAAAAAABgQ/O1BTpfYKvsc/s507/GlassBox%2520GDC%25202012%2520Slides.pdf.jpg)

.                   .- Get to the gameplay more quickly  &  Deploy same gameplay in multiple devices! -

This is a simple simulator small because that was the intention from the start and a objective  of  project imposed by the direction of  business of publisher.

This vision of having dozens or even hundreds of millions of users accessing Origin is the engine that drives the company today and ensures that even in front of any failure, it continues treading the same path as fierce a locomotive that crushes everything in the way. Even consumer rights!

Do not believe ? remember Diablo and wait for the next game .... Meanwhile a litle fun. :)

http://www.youtube.com/v/2uFEYIVKOwA

Bahaha, that dude needs to take it easy on the monitors

Made some highways with the debugging tool.

You can't zone along them so they're pretty useless... but they could work ok with frontage roads:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fziqx6qR.jpg&hash=20cad6b588645449ae1360ca3b5e983b17b6b08f)

They also like to derp a lot.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYQalsyf.jpg&hash=6c008ca76dd868128ab65ca67541da634c904ec7)


Very difficult to construct, but you can construct them outside of the city boundary too.

Maxis/EA/Origin/Whatever stated that you will get banned if you mod the game, but I'm not sure of the debugging tool counts.

Imagine if you got banned for modding SC4...  :D

It seems like the roads are derp in SC4, much like how much work you have to do to correctly model roads in Cityscape, except you don't have the ability to modify the roads, change their height, etc., at least not that I could find during the beta.

So you can't even raise the ground elevation, and build over that? It's too bad SC13 didn't follow where Cityscape left off. The only thing close to that was Monte Cristo, I felt they had some of the same feel CS had. Ironically with EA, I mean they even asked during the beta signup, regarding competing games like monte cristo's, and when the first City Life came out, I felt it had everything going for them during their launch, where as this new SC2013, I was not surprised was going to crash and burn with this DRM crap.

I mean, I feel in the old days, more in the 90's and earlier start of the 21st century, that EA was a pretty well known reputable company, back then, as opposed to now. I feel maybe they should of titled this new SimCity as SimCity Online from the start, since it was not going via numerical, but they can't even cover their own hide! The other mistake, SimVille, was renamed with a final title as SimCity Societies, and you know how that turned out. I was at Best Buy today, no one picked up any copies of the new game, it was still in the display box, even after containing a code, supposedly for the heroes and villains set, and made a disclaimer saying must be thirteen to access origin server's, which are requierd, while the esrb rating only states ten and up. Whatever.

@Haljackey, reminds me of RHW and Nmave for some reason.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 14, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Maxis/EA/Origin/Whatever stated that you will get banned if you mod the game, but I'm not sure of the debugging tool counts.

Imagine if you got banned for modding SC4...  :D

Ah, and another of Maxis' lies has been laid bare. They promised that the game would be modable, but they only meant for them to add DLC with it.

Quote from: j-dub on March 14, 2013, 09:52:30 PM
I was at Best Buy today, no one picked up any copies of the new game

You know, this reminds me of something.  Not long ago, when stores in my area were still selling SC4, I would see people buying it.  SC4 was already an old game at this point, so a possible explanation was that these prospective SC4 players had discovered custom content and bought the game to use it.  If so, this would mean that custom content actually generated game sales.

Quote from: metarvo on March 15, 2013, 05:48:46 AM

You know, this reminds me of something.  Not long ago, when stores in my area were still selling SC4, I would see people buying it.  SC4 was already an old game at this point, so a possible explanation was that these prospective SC4 players had discovered custom content and bought the game to use it.  If so, this would mean that custom content actually generated game sales.

If I may come up with an alternate (if somewhat similar) theory, I'd say there are people who have pirated SC4, discovered the wealth of custom content available and decided to buy the game in a store/steam/Origin/<other means of digital distribution here>. I know this sounds odd, but since demos are becoming rarer and rarer, people have to rely on press coverage alone to see how good a game is and this is how piracy can actually generate sales (which is also what the game publishers/film studios/record labels don't get). I realise I'm playing devil's advocate here a bit and maybe somewhat violating the TOS as well, but trust me when I say this occurs more often than you think.

Also, as for sales, over here in Belgium it appears to sell quite well (then again, maybe the stock was quite limited). On launch day, it was sold out in most shops.

And as for the debug mode, the biggest problem so far is that it doesn't sync to the server. So if you draw highways through other city tiles and then someone else plays that city tile, they don't see the highways you drew in debug mode.

Xander

Quote from: Haljackey on March 12, 2013, 11:06:29 PM
Goona shell out 100 bucks on games this month... hope at least one of them works the way it's supposed to.  :P

I got both too. Put down Simcity after about 4 hours and my tiny square was full already. Going back to SC4 and Dwarf Fortress. Loved the SC2 Heart of the Swarm campaign though - finished hard and considering trying Brutal.

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 15, 2013, 06:06:32 AM
I know this sounds odd, but since demos are becoming rarer and rarer, people have to rely on press coverage alone to see how good a game is and this is how piracy can actually generate sales

This seems counter-intuitive, but I guess this is possible.  I guess some might say, "All is fair in love, war, and SC4."  In that case, maybe they bought the game to get nightlights on custom BATs.  ::)

---

On the subject of highways outside city limits, I suppose this is one way of bursting the "city bubbles" that I've heard about.  Just imagine if you could zone outside city limits as well.  Maybe not necessarily into another city itself, but just into the neutral space between cities.  If more than one person could build in the "disputed territory," then there would actually be a semblance of cooperation.  Isn't that the intent of the new game in the first place?  Just a thought.

:)

Quote from: Haljackey on March 14, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Made some highways with the debugging tool.

Notice the UI though, looks a little too polished to be just for debugging imho. Does it derp around a lot atm? Yes, probably botched because of aforementioned reasons.

Quote from: Haljackey on March 14, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Imagine if you got banned for modding SC4...  :D

I'd rather not.  $%Grinno$%

Quote from: metarvo on March 15, 2013, 07:11:37 AM

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 15, 2013, 06:06:32 AM
I know this sounds odd, but since demos are becoming rarer and rarer, people have to rely on press coverage alone to see how good a game is and this is how piracy can actually generate sales

This seems counter-intuitive, but I guess this is possible.

There was a study about a year ago which showed people using torrents and the like actually spend more money on concerts, buying merchandise, going to movies, buying dvd sets than people which didn't. The conclusion the authors drew was that torrents often are a gateway, so to speak, for people to judge if a particular artist/product is worth spending money on.

Quote from: vortext on March 15, 2013, 11:31:40 AM

Quote from: metarvo on March 15, 2013, 07:11:37 AM

Quote from: WC_EEND on March 15, 2013, 06:06:32 AM
I know this sounds odd, but since demos are becoming rarer and rarer, people have to rely on press coverage alone to see how good a game is and this is how piracy can actually generate sales

This seems counter-intuitive, but I guess this is possible.

There was a study about a year ago which showed people using torrents and the like actually spend more money on concerts, buying merchandise, going to movies, buying dvd sets than people which didn't. The conclusion the authors drew was that torrents often are a gateway, so to speak, for people to judge if a particular artist/product is worth spending money on.

I second that. I download my tracks from the internet, one or two or so, and if I like what I hear, I often buy the whole album. Also, I can find songs on the internet they no longer sell anymore or are too hard to find...

So yes, "piracy" (aka getting songs from YouTube) makes me buy music legally if I like it...

Quote from: vortext on March 15, 2013, 11:31:40 AM
The conclusion the authors drew was that torrents often are a gateway, so to speak, for people to judge if a particular artist/product is worth spending money on.

This is much like radio in effect.  Of course, radio's not what it used to be, but it still introduces people to new artists (and older ones, too).  If I buy a CD, it will be because I have heard and liked the music or the artist before.

For those who thought that curved roads were the biggest news  look for a new big surprise! :D



http://www.youtube.com/v/yySa34R0D_4


Think of the work that was going to be writing this path!! :'(

QuoteUpon release, SimCity (2013) was met with a mixed reception, with aggregate review websites GameRankings and Metacritic assigning scores of 65.22%and 65/100, respectively.

QuoteShortly after its release, the PC version of SimCity 4 garnered mainly positive reviews, gaining 84/100 from Metacritic, and an 85.09% overall score from GameRankings.

Clearly, those are three buildings on top of each other, which has me more confused.  ()what()

It's a shame though, the one thing this new one has going for it, still is the roads hands down.

I'd say that video was probably either a massive bug, or made with the debugging mode unlocker that was made available by reddit.

Quote from: metarvo on March 15, 2013, 05:48:46 AM

Quote from: j-dub on March 14, 2013, 09:52:30 PM
I was at Best Buy today, no one picked up any copies of the new game

You know, this reminds me of something.  Not long ago, when stores in my area were still selling SC4, I would see people buying it.  SC4 was already an old game at this point, so a possible explanation was that these prospective SC4 players had discovered custom content and bought the game to use it.  If so, this would mean that custom content actually generated game sales.

I'm not a regular here, but I'll add my 2 cents.  I've bought 4 different copies of SC4+RH due solely to the extended life that mods have given it.  Three sets of losts discs and/or CD keys before finally just being the Deluxe Edition via Steam.  So yeah, just based on solely my experience, custom content has definitely generated additional game sales.

QuoteYou know, this reminds me of something.  Not long ago, when stores in my area were still selling SC4, I would see people buying it.  SC4 was already an old game at this point, so a possible explanation was that these prospective SC4 players had discovered custom content and bought the game to use it.  If so, this would mean that custom content actually generated game sales.

Of course it does and not just for SC4! Player-made content has kept Sims games alive for ages. In fact, with TS3 without mods the game becomes completely unplayable after just a few Sim days because of a bug left in by developers. It was the same with TS2. There was a bug in the base game that EA didn't bother to fix until Bon Voyage (something like the fifth expansion pack). We used a third-party mod to fix it.

I know one reason I still play SC4 now is because of all the mods. I got so tired of looking at the default buildings, so many of them just downright hideous, that I started downloading mods about seven years ago. Now I don't use any of the Maxis buildings in my game. I've had to replace my game discs once and mods definitely help keep it an interesting and fun game.

There're plenty of EA memes going around these days, this one gave me a good chuckle.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/8d7d2145af7d153f6ab38e69148a0837/tumblr_mjzl7foZk41qft3eko1_500.png)

It's actually a hack of this original Cyanide and Happiness strip (http://www.explosm.net/comics/1896/) [via 8bitfuture (http://8bitfuture.net)]

I am still debating whether I should get this game, and even though I was not suffering the launch day, they sent me this email, and now I am debating if it's worth it, with their free game offer for this weekend only.

QuoteOur SimCity Mayors are incredibly important to the team at Maxis. We know we messed up and want to sincerely thank you for staying with us. The good news is we have solved most of the major issues and players are really enjoying the game. We're getting great feedback from our fans and know that many of you are having fun and are exploring this whole new expression of SimCity.

As a small token of our appreciation, we are offering you a free EA PC game download on Origin*. Mayors who have authenticated their copy of SimCity on Origin by March 25 can select a free game through a redemption portal inside the Origin desktop client later this week. We'll be opening up the redemption portal country-by-country so some of you may see it a little sooner than others. The portal will be live worldwide for everyone to select their game by March 22.

We don't want any of you to miss out your free game, so please note that you must register your copy of SimCity before March 25, 2013 at 11:59 PM PST and you must claim your free game by March 30, 2013 at 11:59PM PST.

What does majority think, should I get this game before this offer is too late now?

Quote from: j-dub on March 22, 2013, 09:16:20 AM
I am still debating whether I should get this game, and even though I was not suffering the launch day, they sent me this email, and now I am debating if it's worth it, with their free game offer for this weekend only.

QuoteOur SimCity Mayors are incredibly important to the team at Maxis. We know we messed up and want to sincerely thank you for staying with us. The good news is we have solved most of the major issues and players are really enjoying the game. We're getting great feedback from our fans and know that many of you are having fun and are exploring this whole new expression of SimCity.

As a small token of our appreciation, we are offering you a free EA PC game download on Origin*. Mayors who have authenticated their copy of SimCity on Origin by March 25 can select a free game through a redemption portal inside the Origin desktop client later this week. We'll be opening up the redemption portal country-by-country so some of you may see it a little sooner than others. The portal will be live worldwide for everyone to select their game by March 22.

We don't want any of you to miss out your free game, so please note that you must register your copy of SimCity before March 25, 2013 at 11:59 PM PST and you must claim your free game by March 30, 2013 at 11:59PM PST.

What does majority think, should I get this game before this offer is too late now?

Personally, I'm not going to.  I see no reason to pay for a fundamentally broken game just to get one that *might* actually be working.  I'll just skip the whole EA fiasco and go buy a game from a company that makes sure its games are working before they foist it on the public.

EA did this to themselves, and they've lost a lot of customers over it.  I will be very, very wary of any game published by EA from this point forward, and I didn't even get ripped off by buying SimCity.