Do the CAM farms of stage 4 and 5 grow when using the SPAM?
I have not done any investigation on this myself, nor do I have the time test it right now, so I came here to ask.
Quote from: Mithrik1 on November 24, 2012, 05:19:52 PM
Do the CAM farms of stage 4 and 5 grow when using the SPAM? ...
Yes.
Generalizing this quick question: Do the CAM farms of all stages grow properly alongside the usage of SPAM, as long as the SPAM being loaded after the CAM? Thanks.
Quote from: hkboondoggle on December 06, 2012, 03:34:37 AM
Generalizing this quick question: Do the CAM farms of all stages grow properly alongside the usage of SPAM, as long as the SPAM being loaded after the CAM? Thanks.
The SPAM has 5 farm stages. The CAM has 7. BSC stage 6 and 7 farms will not grow if the SPAM loads last.
I see, jmyers. So if one really gets greedy and attempts to play with both CAM & SPAM, then some tricks should be done on the PEG-SPAM_MOD-MAIN_b200.dat as you've demonstrated here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12947.msg375218#msg375218), correct?
I have been playing with both mods since SPAM came out. Tricks are not necessary, but you have to decide your playing style. SPAM has 2 farm levels less, but it handles jobs and demands a bit differently from CAM and keeps agricultural demand alive, while your sims get educated.
If SPAM acts as "alpha" mod in relation to CAM, then you will have to keep playing with both. Skyscraper cities require a adequate amount of agricultural areas in the region. This combination is for those willing to dive their attention between rural and urban areas, because high agricultural demand will otherwise lead to unemployment issues.
Doing those tricks you mentioned will place CAM to act more as a alpha mod. You don't need to give so much attention to your agricultural areas, as you would in the previous case, but growing education has a much larger impact to your fields. Agricultural demand drops faster than with SPAM.
It is basically as choice. I strongly recommend playing with both mods separately, before creating a new region with them. In any case, dropping CAM above SPAM region, or other way around, will mess up demands for decades, if not permanently.
Have fun, with whatever style of play you choose. :)
- Ilja
Ah, The SPAM full version has two parts. A MOD and some farm lots. The original full SPAM rolled the mod and the farms together into a DAT file. I liked the new farms, but never warmed up to the mod. So I removed the mod and described how I did it.
But even the altered SPAM file didn't stay in my plugins after I discovered the SPAM resource packs. I eventually made new farms using the XTool then relotted the SPAMeLOTs with my version of the farm buildings. I then used iLives reader and re-associated some of the SPAM fields back with the SPAM farms. Beginner level modding.
The least concerning thing is if a stage 6 or 7 farm grows. CAM and SPAM together will not CTD but, as Reform alludes, the demand and capacity rules have different goals. Mixing and matching may cause uncertain results until you learn the interaction.
- Jim
Thanks for the info, Reform & jmyers. Well, my aim is to modify the SPAM farms so that they can work seamlessly under the CAM framework. Seems like I have to do some heavy digging for the usage of PIM-X & iLives reader then. Any tutorial can serve as a beacon for a complete modding novice like me?
It might be very simple.
As far as I understood it's just a matter of:
1. Put all SPAM farms that you want to modify into a folder in your plugins.
2. Start Pim-X.
3. Open the first lot in PIM-X.
4. Right click on the lot and select: open building of this lot.
5. Right click in the building file and select: recompute.
6. Save.
You are finished.
Now the SPAM farm has been changed into a CAM farm, with all the CAM properties.
It has the same TGI, so it is an overwrite. If you want the new farm to have new TGI's there is more to do.
Hope this is correct and of any help?
What!? Really THAT simple? Sounds too good to be true FrankU!
Anyway I'll try that out after my final week, and may I post back here if I encounter problems in the converting?
Yeah sure!
Good luck. And I hope I was not wrong.
Sorry people, just stop by to clarify something before the executing the farms conversion.
1. After converting the farms, the PEG-SPAM_MOD-MAIN_b200.dat should be deleted. But want about the resource file pack?
2. The SPAM contents I've installed also include 4 industrial lots. So I guess I've to run them in PIM-X as well, correct?
3. Plenty of SPAM related lots require the Super Resource Pack as dependency. Would the conversion have any effect on these lots?
Thanks for your help again & wish you all happy new year.
Quote from: hkboondoggle on December 26, 2012, 11:01:54 PM
1. After converting the farms, the PEG-SPAM_MOD-MAIN_b200.dat should be deleted. But want about the resource file pack?
2. The SPAM contents I've installed also include 4 industrial lots. So I guess I've to run them in PIM-X as well, correct?
3. Plenty of SPAM related lots require the Super Resource Pack as dependency. Would the conversion have any effect on these lots?
1. Keep the resource pack.
2. It is click, click, click and you're done, if you are used to using the XTool. No harm and not a lot of time.
3. What super resource pack? Are you referring to the Mountain Theme Pack (MTP) ?? I think I'd keep it but I don't think I understand the question, totally.
- Jim
My apology for not mentioning the matter crystal clear, jmyers. It should be the SPAM Super Resource Pack, which, I guess, would be identical to the resource file pack stated in Question 1.
(Sorry for the double posting)
Hopefully one last question, do I have to bulldoze existing SPAM farms in game before the conversion? Thanks for the help again.
Quote from: hkboondoggle on December 28, 2012, 06:54:26 AM
(Sorry for the double posting)
Hopefully one last question, do I have to bulldoze existing SPAM farms in game before the conversion? Thanks for the help again.
I guess it depends on the how and the what of the conversion. My experience with farms (because I am always tinkering) is that changing something simple, like growth stage, can cause a farm to abandon and turn to crud. This seems to be peculiar to a farm as I've not seen the same ill affect after altering residential, commercial, or other industry.
The long and short is, wait and see. The worst thing that can happen is abandonment. Copy your save game to another location before starting your next session.
- Jim
Happy New Year guys, I'm back for more questions:
1. When doing the "Right click on the lot and select: open building of this lot" in the XTool, I found that some of the associated building is actually from the PEG-SPAM_MOD-MAIN_b200.dat (shown in here (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd322/hkboondoggle/SC4/Example_zps11e209d0.jpg)); does that mean I then have to separate the building from the MOD-MAIN_b200.dat?
2. About the filling degree parameter, it is a ration of occupied volume compared with the reference yellow box right? How can I estimate it better than a mere guessing?
3. And just to make sure: I have to save both lot & building after tweaking the stuff, correct?
Thanks again for the guidance.
1. I don't see the need if you keep the MOD_MAIN_b200.dat.
It is more convenient to have them separated and I don't really understand why the lot is part of the .dat
2. Setting filling degree is an art :). You're right about the fact it relate to the volume of the yellow box. So to have a 'good' guess I usually try to find how much of the real building can be used. In this model, a fd from .2 to .3 looks good to me. With .3 I see in the pic it provide 6 jobs, I think it seems ok with that kind of building
3. You have to saved anything you modified. The 'Save' button will be enable if it has changed
Quote from: hkboondoggle on January 10, 2013, 09:17:47 PM
Happy New Year guys, I'm back for more questions:
1. When doing the "Right click on the lot and select: open building of this lot" in the XTool, I found that some of the associated building is actually from the PEG-SPAM_MOD-MAIN_b200.dat (shown in here (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd322/hkboondoggle/SC4/Example_zps11e209d0.jpg)); does that mean I then have to separate the building from the MOD-MAIN_b200.dat?
2. About the filling degree parameter, it is a ration of occupied volume compared with the reference yellow box right? How can I estimate it better than a mere guessing?
3. And just to make sure: I have to save both lot & building after tweaking the stuff, correct?
Thanks again for the guidance.
1. Many of the building descriptors are located in the 'main mod' file. Some of the prop descriptors are located in there too. The actual modes are located in a one of the resource packs (IIRC) ... You safely can delete the main mod if you make all new farm buildings using the XTool, which is what I eventually did. I spent two or three evenings. Made new buildings, naming them something that I understood and had a pencil and paper next to my keyboard. "small red barn, Windy Acres ... small wooden bard, Apple Run) ... I then opened up the LE. Replaced the original SPAM building with my version. Then removed the Spam Main Mod file. I now have the CAM, key parts of the CAM are not overwritten by the SPAM, and I have all those neat looking Spam buildings in my game.
The way I described (and you linked to above) was a quick and dirty method. Did you do that? What is the result in your game? And if so, the answer to your question is as Wouanagaine stated. Recompute, click save, done. The recomputed vfarm building is saved 'inside' its existing file.
2. It is a guess but it also an educated guess. You can see the building and also see the bounding box. An estimate is good enough.
Thanks for your response wouanagaine & jmyers. Since I was trying to be cautious in tweaking those files, I stopped the procedure & raised my doubts here once I encountered the problems. So no results of the gameplay yet, sorry.
And my apology but I'm seriously confused at this stage.
As you've mentioned that building descriptors are located in the 'main mod' file, does that mean tweaking on the recomputed building would be saved within this 'main mod' file?
If so then all the altered parameters on the building would be lost when deleating the 'main mod' afterwards, wouldn't they?
But keeping the 'main mod' file would certainly preserve the MOD part governing the agricultural demand. Now this looks like a paradox.
Btw, about the in-game results, what are the specifics you are interested in jmyers? Information shown by the Census Repository?
Lastly I start having I sense that I've hijacked this thread (sorry Mithrik1), should I create another one for my issues?
Quote from: hkboondoggle on January 11, 2013, 11:20:42 PM
As you've mentioned that building descriptors are located in the 'main mod' file, does that mean tweaking on the recomputed building would be saved within this 'main mod' file?
If so then all the altered parameters on the building would be lost when deleating the 'main mod' afterwards, wouldn't they?
But keeping the 'main mod' file would certainly preserve the MOD part governing the agricultural demand. Now this looks like a paradox.
I'm not sure I'm following you, but you can extract all buidlings examplar from the main mod file and so delete the MOD file safely
Not sure it makes it clearer
Quote from: wouanagaineyou can extract all buidlings examplar from the main mod file
Err, sorry for being a noob, but how do you do that exactly?
You can use Ilive Reader for that
I'm sorry I don't remember where the tutorials are for such things, but you may find them here or at Simtropolis