SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

I have a question concerning this (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/28268-industrial-revolution-mod-base-pack-maxis-lots/) mod by T Wrecks.

T Wrecks tells us in the readme of his project that his mod does not work with CAM. He is not sure why. His theory is the following. He PM'ed me this message after I had asked him about this.

------------------------
My mod contains only copies of the Maxis lots (same IID) with altered appearance and adjusted density setting. The growth stage can also be affected because the LE calculates it automatically upon saving the file. Stage depends on the relation of occupants to surface area, i.e. the more occupants and the more compact the lot, the higher the pre-set stage will be. Since most of my lots are larger, many of them will have been knocked down a stage. (IMO, that's not a problem because I don't think stages make much sense for industry anyway)

I didn't make any change to the building exemplar, though - it is still the default exemplar taken from within the file SimCity1.dat.

Since growth stage and density are related entirely to the lot, I suspect that - unlike my mod - the CAM contains changes to the default building exemplars. Currently I'm speculating that the following takes place:
1) CAM replaces all default building exemplars with modified ones.
2) CAM replaces all default lots with lots that look the same, but contain different stage data.
3) CAM points these lots to the modified building exemplars.
4) CAM blocks the use of the default building exemplars.

This way, the default building exemplars Maxis and I used are blocked and cannot be used. The only building exemplars that can be used are those contained in the CAM. These building exemplars, in turn, rely on their own lots and cannot grow on the default lots or any replacements (=same IID) thereof. Since my mod is a collection of such replacements, it is simply not recognised.

So much for my highly speculative theory at least... 
---------------------------

And now for my question. I would like to use the Mod, because the lots are so much better looking than the awful Maxis ones. Is there anybody who can help me with the technical aspects of the problem? I would like to know how I can manage to make the lots work with the CAM, because I like both.
If this would concern that all IID's of TWrecks's lost must be changed by hand I just might be so stupid to do that....  ()what()

I think this doesn't work with CAM for two main reasons:

• Duplicating lots - as he points out, CAM contains replacements for Maxis buildings, and since this does the same, one would necessarily override the other.
• The way he uses zoning density to control type of industry is not necessarily incompatible with CAM, but because it doesn't follow the standard zone-density-growth stage relationships, you might get some weird results.

That's just my guess from having looked over his (rather beautiful) mod when it came out, but they strike me as the biggest points of conflict.

That said, there's no reason you couldn't take his lots and use PIM-X to CAM them all, allowing you to use his new lots in a CAM game. You would lose out on the other aspects of the mod however.

Hmm, that is rather interesting. I have CAM in SimCity 4 and call me crazy, but I have a frustrating time to grow dirty industrial because no matter when I zone them, they never grow. And I think I may have downloaded that Industrial Revolution Mod into SimCity folder too but I'm still not too sure.

EDIT: Never mind, just realized I never downloaded that mod.

Hi Whatevermind,

Of course I could make an override of the override?
It's just that TWrecks thinks the IID's of the override lots by CAM are different than the IID's of Maxis original lots. TWrecks uses the original Maxis IID's. So if I give TWrecks's lots the same IID's as the CAM lots.... it could work. Just load the IRM after CAM. Right?
Or indeed: CAMifying all TWrecks lots, so I can use the visual quality in my CAM without any kind of conflict.
It is doable. Maybe I will try to do that?
If I do, I will put it on the STEX, but I'll only do it if TWrecks is OK with that.

But I rather use his med densitiy and high density use too...

So, someone knows more about the conflict?

Using the X-Tool, I found that to make CAM Maxis industrial lots maintain their growth stages while recomputing, the filling degree of the corresponding (Maxis) building exemplars have to be 1.1 or 1.2 in most cases (I have just tested high growth stage CAM HT industrials). Maybe with this finding all re-lots that T Wrecks has made can be assigned proper growth stages (and be compatible with the CAM.)

EDIT: However, no I-D buildings need alteration. (Just use the default 0.5 filling degree, and after recomputing, the suggested growth stages are the same as those of CAM I-D lots.) They have lower Capacity Satisfied values too. So if we have one building model and make two building exemplars, one is I-D and the other I-HT, and make two same-sized growable lots out of the two building exemplars, the filling degree has to be set to 1.1 or 1.2 for the I-HT building exemplar so that the two growable lots will have the same growth stage.

I-M are similar to I-HT because the filling degrees of both need to be specified in order to get correct growth stages (which are the same as the growth stages set by the CAM.)

EDIT: I've finished modifying I-M and I-HT buildings their filling degrees, and also modified the growth stages of some lots when there is no such filling degree that all lots based on this building have the "correct" growth stage. Having tested once, but found that no lot is counted by Ripplejet's CAMeLot Counter despite their growth stages. So I added CAMeLot Occupant Groups and now everything seems right. I think I can start modifying T Wreck's re-lots; however, I could still make some mistakes.

On modifying T Wreck's re-lots, I used the "corrected" CAM Industrial building exemplars to recompute their growth stages (I used a clone of modified building exemplar .dat file and preserved the other clone because the building exemplars are going to be modified their CAMeLot Occupant Groups.) However, upon testing, some dirty industry chose to grow on high density zone, which was in conflict with IRM's logic. I found that most of the recomputed I-D re-lots have their Lot Config Property Zone Types properties changed from 0x08(medium density) to 0x09(high density) by the X-Tool, which made them show up in bunches on high density zones. They, along with I-M and I-HT re-lots, are corrected using Reader. The I-M part is more painstaking, for I need to reference T Wreck's original numbers. Now these things are done and tested, I am happy with the result! Hope I can share this with you:

1. Like the IRM, dirty industry only grows on medium density zones, high-tech industry on high density zones, while manufacturing industry grow on both. The jobs manufacturing buildings and high-tech buildings offer does increase.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg585%2F940%2Fp2ci.jpg&hash=8b2bc076af56ee0931a5d892881d64fc5b7063f2)

2. These lots are counted as CAMeLots
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg812%2F3715%2F9xiq.jpg&hash=f03cae7a702bc9b189872ab2ff35ce2bc337ceae)

3. Statistics for the resulting modified IRM lots:

I-D

Growth Stage	Count
1	6
2	18
3	16
4	27
5	16
6	3
7	3

I-M

Growth Stage	Count
1	8
2	12
3	17
4	20
5	14
6	7

I-HT

Growth Stage	Count
1	7
2	6
3	11
4	14
5	13
6	5
7	7
8	2

Hi hsuknowledge,

I see this is your first post on SC4D, so I will start with a "Welcome aboard!"
And what an entry! You didn't bother to open the door first: you just jump in with some very good work. Thank you!
I am not certain I understand everything. I will have to read it again when I have more time, but it sounds very good.

Thank you, Frank U! ;D

Continuing my research with the X-Tool, it was also found that the Maxis dirty factory buildings were not CAMified. The pollution was mostly too high, and most of them did not employ enough workers, so they are treated with the X-Tool, by specifying a number called the filling degree, to make their growable lots show up at CAM-specified growth stages. The majority received lower pollution stats, and those of the 1x1 anchors, mechs, outs are reduced most significantly. The Burning Unit, which sits on a 2x1 or 3x1 lot, had its air-polluting capability lowered to 7, a great drop compared to the original 25. However, some does pollute more now, especially the large factories, so you might want to prevent them from popping up in your city. But don't worry, these factories come in larger lots, and it's quite reasonable for them to pollute more. Moreover, these larger factories also employ more sims, and can bring more variety to your city.

As for CAMifying T Wreck's IRM Base Set, the I-D lots have been updated, and following is the updated stats:

I-D

Growth Stage	Count
1	6
2	15
3	9
4	28
5	14
6	5
7	3

Hey so could you possibly explain on a more basic level how someone who is not familiar with modding sc4 would go about putting these changing into place.  I've been trying to teach myself how to use pim-x but seems like it will take a long time to learn how to use it. 

I understand this may not be something that can easily be broken down into a step by step guide, but if you could possibly explain in a little more detail the general process of changing the stats needed or where  i can find a guide that can teach me , I would really appreciate it.

@thinkdude:

If you don't already have the PIM-X Guide (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2257) off the LEX, you should get that and read it. You might be particularly interested in the "Editing Existing Lots" section starting on p35 of the guide.

Thank you.  Don't I feel stupid,  I've opened up that guide 3 or 4 times but always started from beginning and gave up reading it by 3rd or 4th page , I never even noticed that section of it, which would have been the logical place to start.. Thanks, I'll check it out now.

I hate resurrecting dead threads, but I was wondering if it was at all necessary to use the PIM-X tool to recalibrate the values necessary for the IRM lots.

Would it be possible to simply change the values in the Reader to the predetermined CAM stats, and use them that way? I'm far more familiar with the Reader tool, and it seems like it'd be preferable to having to open all the Lots in two programs as opposed to just using one. Does anyone know either way, and what would be the advantage of the PIM-X for a building with whose occupancy I'm already familiar?

Again, to quote Vortext, please excuse my thread necromancy. (I'm just frustrated with Paeng's industrial mod--probably not CAMpatible either--because of the spamming of quantum dishes in my cities' industrial parks, and am seeking a solution).

The advantage of PIM-X is you can use the filling degree to automatically generate the values so you don't have to think them up. But if you're just copying the values from existing lots (the CAMified Maxis industrials if I follow), then there's really no reason you couldn't do that just as well with Reader.

With apologies for thread necromancy, I'm looking into getting IRM to work with CAM and if I understand the instructions in this thread correctly, the steps are:

1) Edit the IRM lots by replacing their values with the ones from their CAMified counterparts (or by using PIM-X to calculate new ones), but preserving the Lot Config Property Zone Types (since this is what's constraining the dirty lots to medium-density industrial zones and high-tech lots to high-density industrial zones). Add in CAMELot Occupant Groups as appropriate.
2) Delete the industrial lots from the CAM.dat file (which leaves the modified IRM lots to override the default Maxis lots).

Am I missing anything?

I don't think step 2 is really required...you could just put the updated IRM lots into the load order after the CAM ones so they override the CAM ones.

I don't know if anybody has actually done the full conversion of the IRM yet...the OP never came back to say he had it working.

Seems quite alright. As jaredh said step 2 is not really necessary, though personally I would do it too. Just for good measure.  ;)

I did some poking around in the CAM and IRM files.

The IRM contains a set of 250 LotConfigurations (which covers growth stage, which zones it grows in, and the buildings/props on the lot), which replace the original Maxis LotConfigurations. The IRM lots connect to the default Maxis building examplars (which have the game stats - the number of jobs, pollution, and so forth).

In contrast, CAM includes a set of 250 LotConfigurations (which reassign the CAM lots to new stages), but also a set of building examplars (for the buildings which have different stats in CAM vs the original; I'm unsure whether this is every single industrial building, but for the residential and commercial buildings, it's only a handful at the CAMeLOT growth stages. I'm guessing since the industrial stages were reassigned more, more of these lots have been modified, but I digress).

Here's what I'm thinking: In theory, to get the IRM zone-segregating functionality (i.e. have HT lots appear only on high density zones, and I-D lots appear only on medium density zones) to work with the CAM lots, all I'd need to do is to go through the CAM lots and adjust the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes, which assigns lots to zones of different densities, to the values of their IRM counterparts. This is straightforward for I-D and I-HT lots, and I can consult the IRM files, which T Wrecks conveniently labeled with the IIDs for the I-M lots.

But I'd like to use T Wrecks' beautiful IRM lots using CAM stats, and I'm not sure how to do this. The logic should be that I need to repoint the IRM's LotConfiguration files to the CAM building examplars (if they exist), and if they don't exist, the Maxis examplars (for the ones that don't have CAM building examplars). The problem I have is that I don't understand what connects a lot to its building exemplar (and I'm thinking this is just my naiveity, because PIM-X can do this so clearly there is an answer to this question). Could I trouble someone to enlighten me on this topic?

Edit: I noticed the "LotConfigPropertyFamily" on the lots corresponds to "Building/prop family" on the building examplars. I feel like that can't be it though, since if that's the case, and assuming the IRM lots have "LotConfigPropertyFamily" values that match the CAM's building examplar "Building/prop family" values, then all I'd have to do is to ensure that the IRM lots load after the CAM lots, and it would work. That seems too trivial for everyone to have overlooked so far though.

Couldn't you just simply remove the CAM Industrials, then go through each of the IRM lots adjusting the values to reflect those of CAM using PIM-X, then you wouldn't have to muck around cross-referencing different lot/building exemplars? I ask, because I don't have or use CAM, just seem the simplest solution to me.

That's what I thought initially, but I noticed that the IRM lots have LotConfigurations, but not Building values (i.e. jobs, pollution, etc.) - as far as I understand it refers back to the Maxis examplars. I'm not sure how to put them in, but there must be a way. But to do that, I'd still need to learn how the LotConfigs connect to the building data.

Quote from: jaredh on February 20, 2014, 08:25:11 AM
I don't think step 2 is really required...you could just put the updated IRM lots into the load order after the CAM ones so they override the CAM ones.

I don't know if anybody has actually done the full conversion of the IRM yet...the OP never came back to say he had it working.

This OP, does that mean original poster, meaning: me? I never went further with this, because I am too busy with my Lotting projects, but the issue still interests me.

wait a minute. .  &Thk/(

Okay, I just checked the CAM and IRM and it appears to be quite simple (famous last words  :D).

Both mods contain identical Maxis content and as such will override all vanilla industries. However, the IRM only contains lot exemplars. This is good news since most of the CAM-ified stats are found in the building exemplars, which are in the CAM obviously. The only exception to this is the Growth Stage. You'd need to change the Growth Stage for the IRM lots to correct CAM stages. Admittedly cross checking this is gonna be a bit tedious.  ::)

However, once you've done so the IRM just needs to load after the CAM (thus overriding the otherwise vanilla lots). Or you could delete all the industrial lots from the CAM. Either way, it ought to work. Keep in mind though this is theory and testing it thoroughly is another matter. You'd need a city developed far enough for stage 4 ID lots before you can get any confirmation it functions properly.

Quote from: Shadowstrike on February 21, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
The problem I have is that I don't understand what connects a lot to its building exemplar (and I'm thinking this is just my naiveity, because PIM-X can do this so clearly there is an answer to this question).

The LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData starting with 0x00000000 references the Building Exemplar via the 13th rep.

I think we're on the same page, vortext, which is good, because I thought that idea was too simplistic to have been the correct fix. :D

With apologies for being pedantic, to find the correct growth stage from the CAM lots to transcribe to the IRM lots, the steps are:

1) Get the building examplar reference from the IRM lot (I noticed I can get it where you specified, and it seems to match the LotConfigPropertyFamily value)
2) Go to the CAM list, search for the lot with the same building examplar, and size, which should have the growth stage listed.
3) Repeat 249 more times.

Right? If so, looks like a project for this weekend. :)

It's quite simple indeed, albeit repetitive in nature.

Quote from: Shadowstrike on February 21, 2014, 01:12:58 PM
With apologies for being pedantic, to find the correct growth stage from the CAM lots to transcribe to the IRM lots, the steps are:

Now, allow me to be pedantic but it's crucial to understand the Growth Stage is in the lot exemplar, not the building exemplar. Building exemplars are not involved in any of this. So the correct steps are:

1) Get the lot exemplar reference for the IRM lot, which conventiently you can get from the name. e.g. I-d1_1x1_90000370.SC4Lot
2) Open the CAM in the Reader, sort by instance and search for the bold number. Once found, write down the Growth Stage.
3) Open the IRM lot at hand and change the Growth Stage.
4) Repeat 249 more times.

Have fun!  :D

OK, matching the IIDs as you suggest is much, much simpler than the method I proposed. :)

This shouldn't be too bad. I DatPacked the IRM (because I understand the plugin load order loads .dat files last, which means that its necessary to do so to make it come after the CAM in any event), and with two instances of the reader open (one with CAM, one with IRM) on different screens, it should be fairly straightforward (if a little tedious). Onwards!

Good luck! And once done you could contact T-Wrecks and see if he's interested to upload the CAM-ified lots. I'm sure many of us would appreciate it!  :thumbsup:

Quote from: vortext on February 21, 2014, 01:46:41 PM
Good luck! And once done you could contact T-Wrecks and see if he's interested to upload the CAM-ified lots. I'm sure many of us would appreciate it!  :thumbsup:

...I think that's certainly very true :)

OK, so I've copied the CAM growth stages to the IRM lots, packed the IRM lots, and put it into the plugins folder so that it comes after the CAM. Booting up SC4, my industrial lots now seem to be growing only on the correct zone-density (i.e. I-D on medium-density, I-HT on high-density, I-M on both), so it looks like everything is working!

However, I don't have a region that has enough industrial jobs (or population) to really test this out (mostly because I just got back into the game, started a new region, and have been avoiding placing industry until I could get the IRM to work with CAM). Can I ask for some help from someone with a more developed region to test these changes out?

Oh Shadowstrike,

It looks like you have done a very good job.  &apls
I'm really sorry that I cannot help you with testing. I don't have time nor a region at hand to check your work...

Dude you have just made my day, i have been following this thread for like  a year hoping someone finally got this to work since my attempts at doing the same thing led nowhere.  I got so frustrated I stopped playing the game for 6 months!! I'd happily help u test out your modded version if you are still looking for help!

I would like to test this out; my region is fairly developed and has a lot of industry right now (around 180 000 ID, IM and IHT, and is still growing)

First, however, I would contact T Wrecks at Simtropolis by PM first. I can do this if you like; I know he was open to a CAMified version of his mod, but it would be ideal to have express permission rather than implicit. Redistribution is a sticky topic and can easily cause problems when communication is sparse.

According to the release page of his mod he says "Should you want to share and/or modify this, be my guest - just try not to be a jerk and give credit where credit is due. In case of doubt, just drop me a line via PM here on Simtropolis."


It seems pretty unambiguous to me that you can go ahead and release it as long as you credit him "where credit is due".  I would definitely send him a PM just to let him know.  He might be happy that someone finally made a cam patch for it   and could possibly add a link to it from the original version.

My apologies for the silence over the last few days. I've contacted T Wrecks (he seems positive about the idea), and I just wanted to get his blessing before I spread this around for testing.

Wow,  I always hoped someone would think of doing this (I'm not really a tech savvy guy). I wish you luck and hope the project is successful!  &dance

Maybe upload it to dropbox and either leave a link here or post via PM to specific members?

Glad to see some progress on CAMifying an awesome mod. (I PM'd him just after you did, I think, to make sure of permission in case you hadn't.)

With T Wrecks' approval to go ahead with this project, I'd like to get some testing done to make sure everything works correctly. So let me know if you're interested in trying it out (APSMS - if you're still interested, I can PM the file to you).

A few caveats: since this only replaces all the Maxis industrial lots (same IID), you may want to backup your regions before trying this out. Also, since it doesn't affect any other industrial lots you may have downloaded, you might want to remove them from the plugins folder when trying this out, otherwise it will mess up the functionality of the mod (i.e. a dirty industry might grow on the high-density zone, and kill off the I-HT). Alternatively, you can edit all your downloaded industrial lots in the Reader to work with the mod - it's a simple fix for every lot, but if you have a lot of them, it can take a while. I can provide more detailed instructions, if you're interested in doing this.

I'm particularly interested in seeing whether this works correctly (it should) in larger regions (i.e. >100k industrial jobs), to make sure it works OK with the upper stage lots, but the more testers, the more likely we are to catch any bugs.

That would be great. I have a reasonably sized region, and of course if I really want to run my region properly with this mod, I'll have to do all of this stuff manually anyways.

Of course, if you have a way of making it simpler (i.e. not having to look through every file in the reader manually to figure out which grouping it belongs in), it'd be nice to know. As it is, I might just be faced with the prospect of developing industry in separate areas of my region (using the existing demand to drive development) and test it that way. I also have some older regions that could use some TLC, so it'll be a good excuse to update them to the latest specs.

APSMS - could you PM me an email address so I can send you the file? I can't figure out how to attach a file to a PM, and I'd rather not attach it to this post.

I haven't figured out any way to modify all of one's industrial lots to have the correct lot property (and it's only one property that controls this, as far as I know), other than one at a time. I suspect that the Reader's script function could do this, but I haven't tried to figure that out yet (also I have essentially no plugins at the moment, so I'm just modifying each lot as I download it). Using a new city on an existing region (and removing all the extra industrial lots temporarily) should work, as far as I know.

Quote from: Shadowstrike on March 01, 2014, 06:14:59 PM
I haven't figured out any way to modify all of one's industrial lots to have the correct lot property (and it's only one property that controls this, as far as I know), other than one at a time. I suspect that the Reader's script function could do this, but I haven't tried to figure that out yet [...]

If it is just one property to that needs to be changed and which can be computed programmatically, I'd be willing to come up with a script to transform all the exemplars for you – not for the Reader's script functionality though, since I did not have any success with it, so far. You'd just need to explain the exact requirements to me.

Well, you just need to look at every single industrial lot, check its type ("LotConfigPropertyPurposeTypes") and change the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes to I-Medium Density or I-High Density, as appropriate (I-D to Medium, I-HT to High, and then I-M distributed to either both or just one - T Wrecks did it by appearance, a model which I've been following, but there's no algorithmic way to do this; both would be better, assuming no I-M tile has heavy pollution effects, but either would also do). It seems doable, assuming there's some systematic way to open every single lot (packed and unpacked).

Ah well, I seem to have misread the previous posts. I had assumed you'd work on a fixed number of lot files (TWrecks' mod), rather than any user's generic set of plugins. If you want to distribute a script that updates a user's entire plugins, it complicates the matter somewhat. I would have used a general purpose programming language like Java and this DBPF (https://github.com/memo33/jdbpfx) library. You could open up every plugin file, filter the exemplars, check if they are industrial lots – but still, if the zone types property is set by appearance, this would be hard to compute algorithmically.

Such a tool could still be useful if people could somehow input a list of the paths of their industrial lots, or if it could be done recursively within a specified folder. It's pretty fast to make the change in one lot, but if you have many lots you're altering at once, the time does add up.

Shadowstrike, let me suggest an easier and quick alternative:

1) Pack all industrial lots you wish to edit in a single .dat file. You can do that either with (i) Files2Dat, (ii) SC4DatPacker, or (iii) SC4Tool (option editors, filemerger). It may be interesting to separate dirty, manufacturing and high-tech lots in different .dat files for the following procedure.

2) Load you merger .dat file in ilive's Reader. Click the 'Analyser' button to open the separate tab, and click 'Search' to fill the list of exemplars. Then click the 'Prop' button to open the 'Find a property' tab.

3) On the 'Name' field, type "LotConfig". It will bring you a list of possible completions for your sentence. Scroll down the list and select the "LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes" property and click 'Find'. It will show you a list of values of that property for all exemplars in your .dat file.

4) You can select all files you wish to change the value of that property (by clicking on each one's line, or by clicking the first one and holding shift key while going down to the last line in the list). When you have all files selected, click 'Edit'. Another tab opens, where you can edit the values of the property of your choice. When you save (clicking the two 'Apply' buttons in a sequence) the changes, they will simultaneously apply to all exemplars (lots) being edited.

5) 'Save' your changes to the .dat file in the main Reader screen.

You can change a property for a large number of lots with the same effort and time spent to change a single lot.  ()stsfd()

Hope this is useful info.
Have fun!

Well, this explanation helps me for a lot of other editing jobs too. Thanks BAP.

Should I have read the manual of the Reader some day?

Quote from: FrankU on March 07, 2014, 10:34:54 AM
Well, this explanation helps me for a lot of other editing jobs too. Thanks BAP.

Should I have read the manual of the Reader some day?

You are welcome, FrankU.
Don't blaim yourself. Although reading the user manual is always a good start, I don't recall learning that info in Reader's manual. I believe it is more the result of a try-and-learn policy applied along several years of use of the program.

So I still haven't tested this yet. A lot of stuff going on, but I was wondering if I could change zone types of LOTs on the fly, and what effect that might have on my already built lots. I know you can change growth stage easily (the BSC Maxis blocker does this w/o ill effect), but can you change zone type, e.g. I-Med to I-High withough causing disastrous effects? I don't mind bulldozing offending lots (which is what I'll be doing when I install the IRM; I'm not going to seek out every industrial plot and delete it before I begin, but when I try and organize all my industrials by type, it'd be nice to know if the cities with the changed zone industrials will even open, and if I'll have to do it for them as well.

bap - thanks for the tip! Actually, my own plugins folder has sorted industrial lots, but only because I just started from scratch. Your technique would work really well for anyone who wanted to make their plugin folder quickly IRM-compatible, assuming they are willing to datpack their entire plugins folder in one go (is it possible to un-pack a .dat file?)

APSMS - I can't say for sure (which is why I advise backing up any cities/regions you are testing this with), but my suspicion is that it shouldn't have an effect, because that property seems to be checked to see if a lot can grow on a certain zone density - it shouldn't affect lots that are already placed (even if they are now on the "wrong" density). But I'd seek a second opinion about this if you have any doubts.

More generally, I've noticed that on the high-density zones, the manufacturing industries seem to be killing off the high-tech ones with their pollution. Aesthetically, they look right, so I'm thinking its just part of the original design of the IRM. I'm musing making a variant where only the high-tech industries are on the high-density industry, and dirty/manufacturing industries are on the medium density industry, which would drop the aesthetic angle, but solve the pollution problem.

Quote from: APSMS on March 23, 2014, 01:44:25 PM
I know you can change growth stage easily (the BSC Maxis blocker does this w/o ill effect), but can you change zone type, e.g. I-Med to I-High withough causing disastrous effects?

Quote from: Shadowstrike on March 23, 2014, 03:23:04 PM
APSMS - I can't say for sure (which is why I advise backing up any cities/regions you are testing this with), but my suspicion is that it shouldn't have an effect, because that property seems to be checked to see if a lot can grow on a certain zone density - it shouldn't affect lots that are already placed (even if they are now on the "wrong" density). But I'd seek a second opinion about this if you have any doubts.

I vaguely recall the same. There was once an SFBT mod by Andreas around that would prevent low density Maxis residentials from growing on medium or high density zones for aesthetic reasons, and a mod that restricts manufacturing industry to medium and high-tech industry to high density zones for the very reason of separating the two kinds; and in neither case I had to demolish anything beforehand.

Quote from: APSMS on March 23, 2014, 01:44:25 PM
So I still haven't tested this yet. A lot of stuff going on, but I was wondering if I could change zone types of LOTs on the fly, and what effect that might have on my already built lots. I know you can change growth stage easily (the BSC Maxis blocker does this w/o ill effect), but can you change zone type, e.g. I-Med to I-High withough causing disastrous effects? I don't mind bulldozing offending lots (which is what I'll be doing when I install the IRM; I'm not going to seek out every industrial plot and delete it before I begin, but when I try and organize all my industrials by type, it'd be nice to know if the cities with the changed zone industrials will even open, and if I'll have to do it for them as well.

My experience with IRM and similar mods is that no disaster happens. I've played old cities after implementing IRM without problems. There was no need to bulldoze any previous industrial lots (but I must say that I excluded from the IRM mod all lots that changed the size of the original Maxis lots -- this would require bulldozing all occurences of the affected lots before installing the mod). Changing growth stage and zone type affect the next occurrences of that lot, not the already grown ones.

Quote from: Shadowstrike on March 23, 2014, 03:23:04 PM
bap - thanks for the tip! Actually, my own plugins folder has sorted industrial lots, but only because I just started from scratch. Your technique would work really well for anyone who wanted to make their plugin folder quickly IRM-compatible, assuming they are willing to datpack their entire plugins folder in one go (is it possible to un-pack a .dat file?)

Yes; strictly speaking, this is possible with the Reader. But it would be a very time consuming and boring process (breaking the original lots back from the packed file with the 'save to patch' and 'create dat' options). On the other hand, you don't need to datpack all of your plugins for this collective change process, but only the industrial lots you would be changing. Of course, after the process all these industrial lots would have to stay packed in a single .dat file. This should not be a problem.

For those of you who are interested, I'd uploaded the CAMpatible version of the IRM:

http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/29669-industrial-revolution-mod-cam-version/

Wow! Great work! Thanks a lot.

Can get the best of both worlds at once. Thank you.

Outstanding work Shadowstrike!  &apls

Please hold while I arrange a well deserved karma point to come your way!  :thumbsup:

Is any one having any luck with this?



I installed the IRM for CAM, re-organized my CAM industrials and changed their zone in the Reader per BAP's instruction above. I experimented with trying to make it work on a fairly new city that had a lot of ID demand.



I tried many variations of DAT'd and un-DAT'd IRM, IRM for CAM, and CAM files in different orders, I tried DATPacking everything. I even finally resorted to SC4DataNode to verify load order (turns out a_CAM actually loads after IRM and most of NAM).



IRM seems to work fine. a handful of non-Maxis BAT's appear (all BSC ones as far as I could tell). This is a dirty industrial city with only a single underfunded elementary school and a pop of about 24,000, and had 9 ID CAM lots (7 stage 1, 1 stage 2, 1 stage 3). I-HD zones stay empty except for Farley's Foundry (dunno why), and the McDonalds factory that I left un-modded as a control. The I-MD fills up nicely with a mix of ID and IM, but they all low level, and no new CAM lots develop.



I ran this city up to ~140,00 pop and still no CAM lots developed.

I reloaded the city, added education, parks, some air/water pollution cleaners, etc to one end and raised the population up to ~140,000 again, but this time with a good mix of R$$ and R$$$, the IRM I-HT developed, but no new CAM lots appeared.



I also started getting random CTD's, a problem I never have in the game.



Is anyone else using this mod with "fixed" CAM lots and getting it to work?

TIA

Josh