SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

I'm very happy to jump on this CAM band wagon, as I'm too after Bixel's example am breading behemoths and like beasts. Te biggest Metro Harbour View is mammoth 18x6 structure is currently on a hold as export times exceed what I can allow. But small things like this One Silver Sea complex which is mere 9x5

here it is: Zoom5 view (with accurate game size):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg361.imageshack.us%2Fimg361%2F5416%2Fossbackz5caustic1qg4.jpg&hash=be35fb4087f1c4d447898cb47ac849eea9cf646c)

And more "human" perspective shot:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F2418%2Fosscam3drcau1qs5.jpg&hash=bc3277c951ab373b0ba464295a27e97922390a39)

Wow stunning  &apls
I guess you've got a very good computer, don't you?  :D

Amazing detailing! This will be definately a 14/15 CAM stage building. &apls

I simply cant believe what my eyes are seeing...  ???

It looks .... HUGE  :thumbsup: ¡¡¡

And perfect detailing.

Wow, this is huge indeed...  :o    How many people will live there?

Actually it isn't all that huge. Only 7 towers. And cause it is upscale development there are only 3 apartments on a normal floor and 2 on top floors and floors above safety floor totaling to 101 two bedroom apartments per tower. So I would say the entire complex would house about 2500-3500 people tops..
This, however is entirely different animal:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F757%2Ffullsouthmedfm01noalpix9.jpg&hash=152b72f2f489f38927c7962e4a949ba1f1b627eb)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F6016%2Fnz3jh4.jpg&hash=361e40bde5aa32dc87bb8d4c6d3d02767b6ced7d)
with greater amount of floors, towers and apartments per floor (8!) this behemoth - Metro Harbour View I&II is providing dwelling to about 15000-17000 people!

So realistic! Specially those nitelights.

thank you guys!

Little update:
OneSilverSea base:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg399.imageshack.us%2Fimg399%2F2838%2Fbasefrontz51uv6.jpg&hash=6bf08fb20175406a8e1b6acc76bbf1cebdbf56d5)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg399.imageshack.us%2Fimg399%2F494%2Fbasebackz51pv9.jpg&hash=eaa0bfc5731f0bf1369233b87064b76a4794712c)

Simply astounding  :o ¡¡¡ Those residential benemouths are really really impressive  &apls

OMG !!!!! It's incredible !!!!!

Somethin' BIG is coming!!!
$%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2


Countdown starts NOW!

that nightlighing is awesome SImfox... how the heck did you do it??? :o

Quote from: SimFox on June 27, 2007, 05:05:56 AM
Somethin' BIG is coming!!!
$%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2


Countdown starts NOW!

From which number does it start ?

Glenni:
It's done with night library/night materials - more sophisticated and flexible version of NightWindows available to MAX users.

Wouanagaine:
yeah.. you're right.. the number is missing... I thought that it would be ready to present by now, unfortunately export had failed due to the PNG library error... Never seen one... and strangely not sure where does it come in... If I remember the script correctly it operates with TGAs and BMPs...
It is rendering now again... hopefully it will go through this time...

Marczar:
no, well, I have done some work for a friend of mine as a "thank you" for MAX/Vray license. But I really like it... and hope to expand a bit into this thing...

I really want to be able to give my buildings that real look like your work. Are there any tutorials which come in handy or could you teach me some basic stuff? :P

amazing!!!  &apls &apls

omg sim that is greeeeeeeeat and its simply amazing omg omg omg

Yes!! I's coming !!!  :D
Check inn in couple of hours... something that was LOOONG since expected is finally here!!!
:thumbsup:

I'm anxious :o
Great update btw, I love the windows :P Which version of the Max do you use?

And here it is!
Ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls!
May I introduce to you the Lippo Centre!
This is my joint project with Paul who had built this fantabulous model!
My input is materials, lighting and rendering the beast!
It ushers the new type of rendering, lighting that I have been working on since I first started bating about a year ago. I loved idea of bringing buildings to life, but wanted more than regular bat was able to provide. So here it is for you expert judgment:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F8809%2Fingame2sr6.jpg&hash=670fdfa115d591fcf2f6ccade36de7d0557b7ec8)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F3136%2Fingame1yr0.jpg&hash=0e8b0438ad7ce3dae4fec9da1469763fceb2b7d6)

these are in-game shots. Sorry After I've transferred stuff to Vista I haven't really been playing the game and my old towns didn't survive. So I don't have a town to place it in. It may look a bit odd in the open field, but surrounded with like styled "glass" buildings it should look right. And since this project was a "technology demonstrator" and now more will be coming. I have some projects and so does Paul. With this technique  we plan to bring shiny new CBDs to the simcities on your computers.

FromTheAshes:
Phoenix? may I call you that??  ;)
I use Max9
Enjoy!

Oh, and by the way here is a Nigt&Day shot - showing the changes in the buiding when the light turn on!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg523.imageshack.us%2Fimg523%2F9809%2Fnigtndaymm6.jpg&hash=1222e5664181221f505ae58a2debe18bc2cc6a63)

That's just breathless!  &apls

Quote from: SimFox on June 28, 2007, 12:49:53 PM
FromTheAshes:
Phoenix? may I call you that??  ;)
I use Max9
Enjoy!

Ya if you want to  :D
Good I can get the 9er as well, is it much better than the "old" versions?

TT: An absolutely amazing building. Looking at some details I really thought "that must be a photo". But I guess the only place to use this is a tall downtown, because of the reflexions. You cannot use this in rural zones :D

The lippo center always had a place in every business district i built, now it looks like it's going to be taking more of a centrepeice for the area, beautiful redesign I must say.

Wow, this is really spectacular!  :o  I must admit that I had some doubts about the reflections when you showed us some development screenshots a few months ago, but the additional work definitely has paid off hugely. The nightlighing looks absolutely amazing, it makes any Maxis building at night looking like an amateurish approach compared to this beauty. Hats off, this is just amazing!  &apls

marcszar:
I have E6600 (currently running at default speed) with 4gb of Kingston HyperX DDR2 about 1,2 Tb of disk space and GeForce 7900GTX with 512Mb onboard.  But for modeling/rendering purposes GPU is irrelevant really. There is such a thing as nVidia Gelato, but it isn't really useful for BAT. Most important is a CPU! I can overclock mine so that render time will come down about 35%-40%. After a lot of tweaking and testing I've managed to get this export done in 309 minutes. And this is with all the side show stuff running along - Skype, about dozen windows of IE, Norton IS etc. Shutting all that down would give another 10% boost.
As for Vista, I have 6Ultimate x64 and just love it! Not only it looks fantastic (finally a Windows that looks better then MacOS and I know as I have both systems) it's all around best Windows ever, remarkably robust and stable. As I have pretty up-to-date hardware there was NO problem what so ever with any drivers and such. Only two things that were a bit a drag in the beginning were Power ISO that wasn't compatible (virtual CD driver wise) with Vista, and surprise-surprise MAX9! So although I've got it as soon as it was out I had to wait till there will be update for MAX9 released that solved compatibility issue.
Well if you have 32Bit Vista then there is nothing could be done, no 64bit application would run on it. But if it is 64bit version Max9's 64bit version still wouldn't install automatically. But Vista isn't one to blame, it is all because of MAX, so all the stones should be through to Autodesk windows and not Microsoft ones. Bastards were trying to squeeze extra buck or hundred from people who already paid a ton for their software and sell as "extra feature" support for system that was coming out basically in the same time as Max9! To install max you have to do it manually, I mean just locate installation file in proper folder on MAX9 DVD. It will install fine, but after that you'll have to install updates that you can download from Autodesk site. Now they are available for free, although first were released as a part of "productivity booster" for subscribers only! Without these updates MAX9 wouldn't run properly on VISTA. Any version of MAX9 on any version of Vista. That is in Direct3D mode, you can run it in OpenGL, but then you'll loose all the fantastic speed improvements that are the core of max9. The culprit is DirectX. Updates from Autodesk solve this, but not 100% - about 95% So it is totally workable.
from the Ashes:
Well, why would anyone built thing like that not in downtown?? Would it be absurd? And I'm glad that reflections would be "outing" that absurdity! But anyway, this is just a beginning!

Andreas:
Thank you! Some tweaking is still possible, but the major difference is that the basics are clear now. What and how works. There are few new approaches in this one and I plan to use and develop them farther.
I don't want to say that maxis buildings are bad, they are NOT! The only problem was that Maxis couldn't nail down the glassy look. So all the maxis stuff stone, or glass looked basically the same. And it shouldn't have. Now there will be true contrast between styles. It should only increase the realism of either one.

Jimmymac:
Lippo wouldn't be alone for very long, it will be little by little getting brothers/sisters styled along same lines.

QuoteThe nightlighing looks absolutely amazing, it makes any Maxis building at night looking like an amateurish approach compared to this beauty. Hats off, this is just amazing!  

Ditto. I'm impatient to see a full developed CBD with all buildings nitelighted like this one

OMG i dont know what to say here but wow!!!

Quote from: SimFox on June 28, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
from the Ashes:
Well, why would anyone built thing like that not in downtown?

Good question, ideed. ;)

Quote from: SimFox on June 28, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
But anyway, this is just a beginning!

A beginning of what?

Impressive...they look like bitmap projection maps with excludes. Excellent technique, whatever it is...sure adds depth  :thumbsup:  &apls

Quote from: callagrafx on June 28, 2007, 03:20:33 PM
Impressive...they look like bitmap projection maps with excludes. Excellent technique, whatever it is...sure adds depth  :thumbsup:  &apls

Nope they are not  $%Grinno$%
those ARE the reflections :)
and as such do require some, rather simple post, but anyway as such are automatic and consistent (unlike projections) with the geometry of the model.

Quote from: SimFox on June 28, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
I don't want to say that maxis buildings are bad, they are NOT! The only problem was that Maxis couldn't nail down the glassy look. So all the maxis stuff stone, or glass looked basically the same. And it shouldn't have. Now there will be true contrast between styles. It should only increase the realism of either one.

No, of course the Maxis models aren't bad - on the contrary, I like most of them a lot! It's just the nightlighting that looks less than stellar one some of them. One prominent example is McCarthy Condos, which doesn't look so bad in day mode, but the nightlighting is absolutely horrid (way too bright and indifferent).

This is indeed better work than previous one, but I must be honest: that nightlighting looks weird and it will look lonely if someone don't make another building with reflections.  But, you are one of the best ever with that nightlighting  &apls

Truly spectacular building! I am humbled walking among giants on this site! Everyday, someone is producing content that reaches that "next level". You have done that here.

Simfox! Its just so happens that your One Silver Sea, and my Island Harbourview are right next to each other!!!  ;D

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Hong+Kong&ie=UTF8&ll=22.319044,114.158345&spn=0.00526,0.008572&t=k&z=17&om=1

Your is on the left, mine is on the right.

and there is a lovely avenue roundabout between them.... now that would be a megalot :P:P:P:P

Simfox, this is the website for Olympian City, use the flash map to navigate, you can click on buildings and get some info.

http://www.olympiancity.com.hk/OC/transport_eng.asp

CAM wont ahve much use for me.....

I dont build even as big as the stage 8 maxis towers....

Quote from: SimFox on June 28, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
marcszar:
I have E6600 (currently running at default speed) with 4gb of Kingston HyperX DDR2 about 1,2 Tb of disk space and GeForce 7900GTX with 512Mb onboard.  But for modeling/rendering purposes GPU is irrelevant really. There is such a thing as nVidia Gelato, but it isn't really useful for BAT. Most important is a CPU! I can overclock mine so that render time will come down about 35%-40%. After a lot of tweaking and testing I've managed to get this export done in 309 minutes. And this is with all the side show stuff running along - Skype, about dozen windows of IE, Norton IS etc. Shutting all that down would give another 10% boost.
As for Vista, I have 6Ultimate x64 and just love it! Not only it looks fantastic (finally a Windows that looks better then MacOS and I know as I have both systems) it's all around best Windows ever, remarkably robust and stable. As I have pretty up-to-date hardware there was NO problem what so ever with any drivers and such. Only two things that were a bit a drag in the beginning were Power ISO that wasn't compatible (virtual CD driver wise) with Vista, and surprise-surprise MAX9! So although I've got it as soon as it was out I had to wait till there will be update for MAX9 released that solved compatibility issue.
Well if you have 32Bit Vista then there is nothing could be done, no 64bit application would run on it. But if it is 64bit version Max9's 64bit version still wouldn't install automatically. But Vista isn't one to blame, it is all because of MAX, so all the stones should be through to Autodesk windows and not Microsoft ones. Bastards were trying to squeeze extra buck or hundred from people who already paid a ton for their software and sell as "extra feature" support for system that was coming out basically in the same time as Max9! To install max you have to do it manually, I mean just locate installation file in proper folder on MAX9 DVD. It will install fine, but after that you'll have to install updates that you can download from Autodesk site. Now they are available for free, although first were released as a part of "productivity booster" for subscribers only! Without these updates MAX9 wouldn't run properly on VISTA. Any version of MAX9 on any version of Vista. That is in Direct3D mode, you can run it in OpenGL, but then you'll loose all the fantastic speed improvements that are the core of max9. The culprit is DirectX. Updates from Autodesk solve this, but not 100% - about 95% So it is totally workable.

The updates you are talking about are the Extension 1 productivity booster?

incredible work, I'll have to go fetch my jaw... ;)

take care,

Toxicpiano:
Productivity booster is a special add on set available only to subscribers. It was the first installment of Vista compatibility from Autodesk, but later SP2 was released which is free and available to anyone from Autodesk site. It has same "Vista support" implemented in Productivity Booster, but lucks some of additional "productivity" features of PB1.

Ah, Ok! Yeah I have SP2 not the extension   ()sad()
Also have you seen this:
http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/~luft/ivy_generator/

yep!
It is nice!!  Works resonably weel. Of course there is a scale problem with SC4.

Thanx to Bixel who supplied me with new images of One Silver Sea I discovered that the base was way to small (low), so I have rebuilt it to proper dimensions. Well it is still as you see work in progress. Apart from new dimensions, I've completely redesign "fins" and although they may look similar at first glance they are quite different now. This wasn't just pure "attention to details" correct design is essential to ensure that pieces fit and look good.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg386.imageshack.us%2Fimg386%2F3419%2Fosss141mm3.jpg&hash=fddbc823639cf10eec016e53410c10c7f7e88e9e)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg381.imageshack.us%2Fimg381%2F1994%2Fosss142lk6.jpg&hash=520816f42797909e7de949ba438cbbd83b4cec86)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg471.imageshack.us%2Fimg471%2F5383%2Fosss143uq1.jpg&hash=d77191e3310a608f6a8ecf1eda858a1f24f0587c)

So, once more, thank you Nathan!

 ??? is it real photo ?  ???

nope, why would it be? $%#Ninj2

This is quite the model! I do have to say though that those window textures are a tad much. I personally think the reflections are overdone and overdone reflections end up looking fairly silly in game because they don't match what's around a buildling and only a few of the other buildings have reflections (those being other custom content that was created with reflections). It's your model of course and you're free to do what you want and it does probably come down to a matter of individual taste but if it were me I would start over with the glass.

Quote from: Antoine on July 08, 2007, 01:27:46 PM
??? is it real photo ?  ???

You know i was gonna ask that very same question cause dang the angle and
the background wow... stunnning work simfox

Thank you guys!
SPA, you are absolutely right! These (reflections) are sort of place holders for me clearly to see the division between clear reflecting part s of the building, blurry reflecting (like those metal parts) and nonreflecting - well practically all materials are reflecting to a degree of blur)
So far I mostly do modeling, it isn't really nearly finished, materials are just to see how some if the detail works, if it is visible, or just a vast of time.

wow, what a massive and beautiful building you created, your textures and reflection are adding so much to the game, keep up the awesome work!

*drool*

It looks real. If I were a building, I'd be all over it. :P

SimFox, welcome aboard the CAM train! &apls

I'm made some alterations to the glass material it is less dark and less reflective now.


So what do you think? Is it balanced now? Also some additions have been made to the base – that "drum" like structure. As far as I understand it is a garage ramp. The coolest thing about it (in real life) is that this drum actually shows the rise of the ramp – it isn't evenly "cut". Unfortunately in game view it hard to notice. I'm wondering should I let it be, or artificially hick the "rise" to make more obvious?
After adding "drum" I've discovered that overall proportions of the base were somewhat off again!!! So I had to reduce its width. I think now I've got it right. And since basically modeling, at least on the part of large masses is finished I think it will stay like that.
Also picture I've increase the overall contrast of the output. Do you think it is for the better? Or should I revert to old settings?


RippleJet.
I'm very excited about CAM. OneSilverSea and MetroHarborView are definitely in need of such a mod otherwise they can't be realistic in their stats and would be silly things on they own.
But I also plan to break them done to individual tower or may be sets of 2-3 tower on a common base or even without it. This way they could be much more useful, after all not every city would be suitable for such a behemoth.

BTW, I've added "ridges" to the towers well not to all but some – I think they are clearly visible. What do you people thing do they feel right there? Original towers have them Well not exactly ridges, but some horizontal lines, but I'm not sure about them... Somehow I feel that they break horizontal lines of the structure, reducing perception of height?

Not too sure if the ridges are needed, I dont think the original has them. The Windows look GREAT!!! Oh boy you got me so excited on this one.

your wall texture is abit coarse. maybe tweaking the UVW map, also a vertical gradient ramp would add to realism

Bixel!!! :D :D :D
My oh my!! I was actually mimicking YOU with those ridges!!! Original has something... those are probably not ridges per se, but there some sort of lines. One way to do them would be with textures, But I'm still very inexperienced with that, and aligning them properly seem like a daunting task. Unless making full unwrap, that has challenges of its own! I'll think about ridges , do some testing... I'll also try your suggestion about texturing floors. I think it's a brilliant and very elegant solution! And come to think of it you had it used in Crescent! Although windows there weren't really transparent if memory serves me right...
Given your familiarity with the object in question, I need your opinion on couple of things. Where do you think this entrance is located?

Mightygoose
About walls. hm... coarse you say.. well naturally it is just an approximation... the towers are clad in some sort of natural stone. I just used cellular procedural map to sort of quick fake it. So there isn't any separate UVW maps on practically anything in the scene.  3D procedurals like Cellular don't need them as they exist through our entire space and hence ultimately non-repeating. (and easy ;.) But I'm considering of going tiles with this one to give it more upscale look it deserves. The place isn't cheap! 1200 sq ft 2 bedroom apartment there would cost somewhere around 18 000 000 HK$ (about  1,8 million €) and rent for the same would be about 38000HK$/month (at least that is asking price) Interiors are truly splendid though!
But as far as gradients are concerned... I'm afraid I have strong aversion to those. Despite all the claims those don't add to realism, quite an opposite. This gradient is suppose to mimic ambient occlusion (commonly and very incorrectly called light tracing). But as it is baked in it ultimately fails to do so. You end up of both shadow side (where it might be appropriate) and sunny side where it is totally inappropriate having same look. At any rate this rendering setup takes care of natural ambient occlusion. Of course there are some limitations, as there isn't anything actually present in the scene apart from this model but I would say approximation is rather good, far better than any gradient has ever done IMHO.
But I would really like to hear more of your thought on material for walls... do you suggest to make grain finer? Did I understand you right?

thats very interesting about the gradient ramp.

as for the walls currently they look like bricks similiar to these just with more yellow in them

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F3538%2Fbri00072tp7.jpg&hash=28e92c4d9adc55a22ef7adaac4b7781e69d975b5)

if it is natural stone the variations should be finer than they are. if its sandstone your after look at the variations see how they are finer for the majority with occasional large variations, however, i feel the larger ones would be sanded out before use.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castiastone.com%2Fcolors%2Fimages%2FSandstone.jpg&hash=e5d71bc30e517dee4e0386a9bfe08ef461dcdb20)

Simfox, very nice  :thumbsup:
Great work !!


Saludos

I agree: spectacular work.  &apls

WoW what a lot of progress here simfox omg that building is looking sooo real wow

Thank you guys!

Base is moving along, slowly, but steadily. At this stage any step forward comes at ever increasing effort and time. I have to reconstruct bit by bit, the way structure is assembled, or invent when (as often with bases/street level) there is simply NO information available trying to keep stylistic cohesion.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F9531%2Foss20northls4.jpg&hash=32848c2dec6d4e026e704fc45b980aadb3a3d740)

Looks amazing.

The whole thing looks enormous, massive... BIG  ??? ¡¡¡

Will you add some flora to these terraces perhaps ?

Looks awesome... &apls

Saludos

Oh dear!! After HongKong (a Simtrropolis member) posted some excellent shots of One Silver Sea - great many thanx to him for that) I ended up redesigning parts of the base all over again. But now I believe all the parts are right and it is near completion. Only minor things left (structurally but not necessarily work wise - pool, basketball/tennis court, some plants and furnishings to go on the public spaces. Plus I still have to finish all the rooftops. According the views from Google Earth all but one towers have rooftop swimming pools for so called Sky Villas - natural perk for a home that cost about 5-7 million  US$ Anyway here is redesigned base:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg380.imageshack.us%2Fimg380%2F4991%2Foss21newbasees7.jpg&hash=81808a60f7e8991e7d020f79ad41bd89bff36487)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F2175%2Foss21newbaseeastnewgammgh3.jpg&hash=c3ac09ad480de0a2d62186a9877752be8cc41a69)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg186.imageshack.us%2Fimg186%2F3898%2Foss21newbasesouthwo2.jpg&hash=f4501c5a83865aefa149b56a4c28af2377d30b83)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F4836%2Foss21newbasewestxh7.jpg&hash=d2ab84ed8a16986aa955154f6d281e07121d30f1)

And what is called in the industry Clay render. these are used to show basic proportions and design prior/separately from material selection. I've done this cause I needed to refresh my skills in another renderer - V-Ray which is a defacto king of the hill in small scale productions (especially in the interiors)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg186.imageshack.us%2Fimg186%2F5858%2Fvrayclay1mm6.jpg&hash=dc1444ef8a5c95bbbd8cb2249b60fe1ea997a629)
still with an old base

If you had one of those new 3D printers, you'd be able to have a 3D recreation of that building on your desk. :P

Nice work - it's very real.

SimFox that building is looking reallly great... keep up the hard work - pat  &apls &apls &apls

great work on the model. I like the massif amount of details. the olny thing that caught my eyes is the color of the texture on the base. maybe you can make it a bit darker :)

That's a byproduct of using the sun/sky rig as opposed to "normal" lighting...it bleaches textures out like a sunny day would do.  I suspect they are darker in reality and will, when exported with the BAT lighting rig, appear darker.

Quote from: callagrafx on July 23, 2007, 07:55:04 AM
That's a byproduct of using the sun/sky rig as opposed to "normal" lighting...it bleaches textures out like a sunny day would do.

Saying that is VERY misleading! That's not quite that straight forward. Sun&Sky lighting rig on its own doesn't do ANYTHING of the sort.
Anyway here is first approximation of the material that will be used for base walls:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg374.imageshack.us%2Fimg374%2F46%2Foss21tiles1ya3.jpg&hash=53bfed4545cb01edee0bb84587a96f42e2e5fe17)

Quote from: SimFox on July 24, 2007, 06:39:44 AM
Saying that is VERY misleading! That's not quite that straight forward. Sun&Sky lighting rig on its own doesn't do ANYTHING of the sort.

So, I'm sure you wouldn't mind to explain exactly what it does, so we all can learn that as well, or is it a secret? &mmm

That basement without the skyscrapers alone would be a great building, too!

It made me think of the Staatsgalerie in Stuttgart - one of my favourite museums for contemporary arts ..

Linkie1 (http://145.253.206.229/stuttgart2006/galerie/) and the homepage (http://www.staatsgalerie.de/) of the Staatsgalerie

Get some nice plants and a pebblestone texture on the roof, maybe a cafeteria with some nice tables and we have a great Museum for modern art!

Take care and make backups!

Bernhard  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Rayden on July 24, 2007, 07:54:59 AM
So, I'm sure you wouldn't mind to explain exactly what it does, so we all can learn that as well, or is it a secret? &mmm

Yes please do explain, what is making the textures so bright.

Quote from: Rayden on July 24, 2007, 07:54:59 AM
So, I'm sure you wouldn't mind to explain exactly what it does, so we all can learn that as well, or is it a secret? &mmm

Rayden i bet it is a secret LoL... SimFox great progress here...

Not quite sure how it's misleading, as I have tested the system time and time again and get the same results:

No lights (standard Max illumination)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi95.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl151%2Fcallagrafx%2FMR_nolights.jpg&hash=73eae2a4e11f52415189918555a3464ffbebf0e4)

BAT Lights (medium rig)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi95.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl151%2Fcallagrafx%2FMR_BATlights.jpg&hash=ded0ab483df4e656da01f719799e047257c862b6)

And Daylight system using IES sun and sky, set to Helsinki at 15.00 (today's date)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi95.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl151%2Fcallagrafx%2FMR_sunskylights.jpg&hash=dd98aaac79ec269ee78f3b6125cbbc0b641d0307)

Now, as I do more interior projects and products, I could have the sky/sun set totally wrong, but this was from cold, no mucking with settings, using the create > system > daylight and orbital scale set to 60

Sorry SimFox, but callagrafx do make a good point.

Mmmm.... very interesting discussion about the different lights and environements.... lets keep it this way. :)

Nope he doesn't. Some crucial bits and pieces are missing.
Callagrafx statement could be described with this question from an old jock – "What is better Sun or moon. Moon of course, cause sun is totally useless. It shines at day when there is light anyway, Moon on the other hand shines at night when it is dark!" Comically correct, but still wrong in principal.
To start with I want to point that Sun and Sky rig doesn't need to be  IES Sun&Sky or MR Sun&Sky or VR Sun&Sky (the list may go longer)rig. Most people probably thing that as it is ANY  sun and sky rig the results will be the same. But that is NOT the case. Putting half backed IES Sun and Sky rig as an example is that misleading bit. In Sun and Sky rig the key concept is not Sun. Sun is nothing but the targeted infinite Direct light source. The key concept is Sky - absolutely unique type of light, like no other. It is an area light taken to extreme. Light radiates from entire inner surface of virtual sphere (like with max standard skylight) or hemisphere surrounding/half surrounding your scene.
About pictures posted.
Supplying MAX "no lights" illumination picture is absolutely pointless and I'm puzzled as to what it serves here. We, or at least I, have no idea what lights are used, their intensity, hue anything...
About the BAT illumination. Well posting picture like this one is very misleading too. For starters the most crucial point of ANY light is missing (missing on all shots actually) - shadow! My biggest and original grievance with Default bat rig was the quality (or the lack there of) of shadows it delivered. But the main issue with that render from Medium Default rig is that it is totally crocked. The Rig and the render(naturally). What rig are we actually talking about? The one included in Bat4Max v2? Had anyone (just out of curiosity) tried to open those scenes? (located in Scenes subfolders in BAT folder). Problem with HUGE one keep surfacing now and then, but there is more. In this Medium Rig that Callagrafx decided to show here as an etalon of sorts,  2 lights are turned off for some reason. One in "sun" group with intensity multiplier of 0.5 and one in "sky" group with multiplier of 0,4 i.e. both are some of the brightest in the bunch! The "sun" one is even called "MainShadow"!! And it is off! Naturally it produces picture that is VERY different then one produced by respective rig in BAT for GMAX. I mention this for those "purist" insisting that any change is to the bad. And that we have to stick to what was in the original BAT for the sake of compatibility. There is your compatibility.
Also the picture with IES Sun shows ONLY illuminated part of the cube.(Helsinki 15.00 is a nice touch, though. But Callagrafx's setup is obviously missing one ABSOLUTELLY crucial detail determining how render with such an IES sun would look like. I'll show you later what it is.
Back to default rigs. This is what render from Medium Default rig included in Bat4MaxV2 looks like:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg372.imageshack.us%2Fimg372%2F4047%2Fdefaultmediumasisio7.jpg&hash=f336078fe9c101e7f9e8c1270f800148398dff25)

And this is what the picture from Default rig SHOULD look like (and what it looks like in GMAX) if it wouldn't be wrecked by someone sometime:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg372.imageshack.us%2Fimg372%2F5026%2Fdefaultmediumasshouldbedu4.jpg&hash=e09afcb6d4f0bd47890acb3e57cfff8a15f34410)
At any rate take a close look at the either of the pictures! And particularly at the mess of a shadows you see on them! This should be enough to say Good Bye and Good Riddance to the default rig! But our topic today is texture wash-out.
Ok, but back to our topic – bitmap texture bleaching, its causes and fixes.
Here is a render from very basic Sun and Sky rig. I switch to Mental Ray as a render because its Final Gather algorithms automatically calculate realistic looking shadows (sort of Ambient Occlusion) from Sky.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg372.imageshack.us%2Fimg372%2F8854%2Fsimplesunskyhw7.jpg&hash=a30a0c38ed078ec71ec3d9efb4574c689a0e83b7)
This is a very simple (just basic Skylight dropped anywhere in the scene and oneTarget Direct light playing sun) but true to the principal Sun and Sky rig. Target Direct light has intensity multiplier set to 0,6 (this, of course, could be tailored to anyone's taste) and Ray-traced shadows. I'm not going to dive into shadow types now as it is a bit outside of the topic, but if anyone is interested I put together little explanatory article of sorts on shadows and it is available in my "Forces of Light and the Geometry of Shadows" thread in BAT Workshop section of Simtropolis forum.  So, how does this particular bitmap texture look? Is it ruined as Callagrafx had prophesized? With little time adjusting relative strength of lights (and that isn't all that difficult task as there are only 2 to deal with) you can get very credible replica of either True Default or Crooked Default rig. But it will still be superior! Just look at the shadow (there is only one to start with) and see how its intensity changes. And that is with MOST primitive of setups! 
Here is render from same rig with values of lights a bit altered:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg364.imageshack.us%2Fimg364%2F5105%2Fsimplesunskyalterdea5.jpg&hash=7f7df33d5877688620570df8a72c6350cd6a4599)
Now to the beef! IES Sun... The one upon which  Callagrafx has built his case against my obsession with Sun and Sky rigs. Well, I do have one, I confessssss! But truth is that it's only ONE particular case, one of many possible ones. Ok let's get us Photometric IES Sun&Sky rig and render our cube. Here is a result:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg130.imageshack.us%2Fimg130%2F5564%2Fiessunny1.jpg&hash=d9196ea808510fd7b41771838b038a7b30910e5b)
No, there is nothing wrong with you monitor and picture is right there before your eyes. Yes it is totally white! Why?? If you have digital camera with manual controls you can make a little test. Set it to make properly exposed picture inside in the night with one lighting of about one 60 W incandescent light bulb in a 16-20 sq m room, of something along these lines. Then, next day, without changing any settings (exposure time, Aperture opening, ISO settings) go outside on a sunny day a make picture of sunlight something . and see the picture. It probably will not be totally white but nearly so. In Max we see same thing. Max light with multiplier of 1 is about the strength of that bulb. And IES sun is not for nothing in Photometric lights section. It is trying to imitate sun (including it relative brightness). So to see anything in our output window we have to change our "camera" settings to fit illumination of the bright day. In MAX it is accomplished with something called Logarithmic exposure control, plus you have to tick and option that says Exterior Daylight because it is, after all exterior daylight scene.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg130.imageshack.us%2Fimg130%2F4047%2Fenvironmetvj8.jpg&hash=4da368d0a9435d0f3621661a298dfeed06b22ff4)


Ok let's do that and render:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F1064%2Fiessunlogarithmicft8.jpg&hash=6a5c33029781a12a0ffd298215f515ba20ab1898)

ta-dah!! – Callagrafx picture of horror – washed out texture! Oh my! What to do? Why on earth.  If you set your digital camera properly for outside exposure you wouldn't see anything like this, would you?? No you wouldn't! And if you would you should examine your camera, you cameras manual, or take it to repairs!!  So what's wrong with MAX. Well the answer is – NOTHING!! Absolutely nothing! This was an unnecessarily aggressive sentence, this will not be tolerated.
Let's take one more look at this washed out image. What is exactly wrong with it? Is it too bright? No, not really. And Shadow looks fine... it is ONLY the texture that suffered. It looks like it has been heavily equalized. And it has been!!! So let's remember what we have done to our settings. We have applied Logarithmic exposure control for daylight exterior. The key word here is Logarithmic – non-linear!!! So, non linear gamma correction has been applied to our rendered image. It compensates for the extreme brightness of photometric sun and sky. But our texture on the cube has already been created with this adjustment because it's meant for use on low dynamic range equipment like our monitors for instance. So in a way this process is now applied to it twice – that's why it looks so washed out. To fix this problem we should simply tell MAX not to do this second correction to our bitmaps or to reverse correct it prior to the application of gamma correction to the entire image! This is done in Customize Menu -> Gamma and LUT tab. First you have to enable gamma correction. The number there is, most probably 1,8 but that doesn't really matter for a moment (although it is a VERY powerful tool just like levels in Photoshop. What matter for us at this moment is that we have to tell MAX how to correct our bitmaps. You have to put exactly same number into Input Gamma and keep Output Gamma to 1,0.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg130.imageshack.us%2Fimg130%2F6001%2Fgammasettingsww5.jpg&hash=091a641eb8bf47dcadbddaba9091893c7c2844e8)
That 's it! Oh and I would recommend also to tick Affect Color Selector and Affect Material Editor. So that you'll see both basic colors and bitmaps that way they actually are! Otherwise MAX displays everything in Linear Gamma. Why?? God knows, cause our monitors are NOT linear! Well, God isn't really involved, but linear is more practical for material that goes to further compositing and stuff like that.
Anyway, after these manipulations (actually it is a basic setup!!) this is what you render will look like:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F4600%2Fiessunlogarifmiccorrectgc5.jpg&hash=76f0d45b92d37d66049e97052d91d9b5ba45d5fb)

Sentence moderated, this forum is not for personal attacks. I do not pretend to know everything nor did I write any book on 3d. But I try to find how things work and why do they work in the way they do. Also if I give some advice to people I, as a habit, check my facts and solutions before go public with it.


I am very sorry that I had to moderate this thread, but I could see this one coming from miles away the same as Jeronij could. - Fred

whoa, easy there hoss....let me explain a little about the 3 renders first.

The first one was a default scene in Max with no lighting whatsoever...Max will still illuminate the scene until you add a light source, then that takes over the illumination.  The second was using the standard BAT4Max lighting rig.  There are no shadows because I have not added a ground plane, for the simple reason that when you export a model for the game, there is no ground plane.  The game creates the shadow cast to the ground (I say "creates", I really mean "screws up").

The third was, as I said, created from the Daylight system script that generates the sun/sky rig and changes the settings accordingly. BUT, I pointed out that I did a render with no alteration to the settings.  This is what most people would do and would then wonder why this was the case.

Now onto the misconception...I have no problem with the Sun/Sky rig and your self confessed obsession with it  ;D ;D, in fact as I'm doing more and more exterior work I'm finding it more and more useful...I'm a graphic designer and have an advanced knowledge of photoshop and colour so I know how a bitmap responds in a particular gamut, but what I missed was the gamma correction step (as I said, I've not been using the sky/sun rig for long) and that little nugget will certainly stay in the brain.  :thumbsup:

So in a way, both of us are right...It can wash out textures BUT it also does make a building look more realistic. That said, the process is not 100% suited for creation of game assets, as it sits outside the game palette and requires serious knowledge of Max to get it to be of any use, and 99.9% of all BATmakers use the standard rigs, so this is really academic, albeit very interesting.  I appreciate the time you took to explain the differences, so we can all understand the methodology a bit better and apologise if I sounded like I was attacking you...I was simply basing my assumptions on my experiences with Sky/Sun.

Edit:  Fred, I don't think SF meant that sentence as an attack and I didn't take it that way, but I appreciate the concerns...

Callagrafx, no problemo! Glad i could be of assistance... May be you could teach us a thing of two about texturing and UWV spaces/mapping... I'm pretty much in the dark on those...
I think it is important to know the tool you use. Plus BAT could be just a first step. There's such a big and interesting world out there!
I spoke of the shadows cause they are quite important to show the real properties of light. True that shadows on the ground in the game are generated there  - in the game, but those ON the buildings are coming from the BAT. That constellation of shadows that is very obvious on the ground plane in first two renders is partially (in addition to shadow map type) responsible for their incoherent shadows plaguing more intricate BATs when you see façade elements and roof junk "floating" about it instead of sitting put.
Anyway, what's light without the shadow? Just half itself.
As for natural desaturation that suppose to occur at very high levels of brightness it will still be there. MR does quite a commendable job of it. But that issue you've pointed out doesn't really look remotely natural, does it? Looking at it you'd never say : Oh yeah, that's a sunny day!
BTW is your Default Medium Rig fine? Or does it also have some light turned off? I wonder when and why did  happen...
To overzealous moderator Fred:
I'm a bit surprise to see my message being edited... there wasn't really anything inflammatory In the phrase cut away from the end of my message.
That would be ok, but since people other than me and Callagrafx will not be able to see it they would naturally assume the worst. To the detriment of my reputation... again... But anyway...

I dont think your reputation has anything to fear about actually  $%Grinno$%

And thanks for that great technical explanation about the lights, which I personally find really useful  :thumbsup:



Oh, and yes, perhaps Fred is a bit overzealous, but I prefere it this way  ;)

SimFox, I do appreciate that english is not your first language and maybe some of the subtleties of your original thoughts became "lost in translation", but I thought it was better to moderate the sections I thought were inappropriate, rather than let an argument start. After all, the original post can be restored if Jeronij and the other mods agree that I was overzealous, but if you had offended someone, that would not be so easy to fix.

Oh and your explanation was very interesting to me, as one who wishes he could BAT  ;).

Fred

WOW the information i found here simfox was very good... Just a thought though how about transfering some of those post over to tutirols section? ? ? ?

....... &Thk/(.....Simfox, your first language is not english?..??? you write it better than i do on the forums, and im native English speaker, with a little Texan drawl thrown in it  :P

To echo Pat's comment, i think this should be copied over to tutorials section, this whole thread is teeming with exceptional BATing techniques

No, English isn't my native tongue... &ops
But I thought I have a reasonable command of it though... well...
Anywho, about putting this into the tutorial section... I have nothing against it; the only consideration is that it hardly constitutes a tutorial. More like any informative piece. I'm not sure of rules here what should go where. I have a thread for this sort of things on big  Simtropolis called Forces of light and the Geometry of shadows where I been collecting this sort of bits and pieces. I may recreate something like this here as well, just don't know in what section...

It might be worth setting up a general 3DS Max subforum as there seems to be more and more discussion on it.  I'll talk to my fellow mods.

Anyone who can use anywho, and get away with it has more than a reasonable command on the language.   $%Grinno$%

BTW great buildings, and interesting discussions.

 :D :D LoL Diggis you are soooo very right... anywho so simfox the only reason why i said that this bit should be
moved to the tut section is because i think it would serve as a long reminder to anyone who run into the same problem as lee had pointed out and speaking about lee that would be awsome to see a new thread devoted to
3ds max... as im wanting to get into batting an what nots...

I please you to be patient.... we are looking for the best place to preserve this information  ;D

BTW, Lippo Centre has been uploaded to STEX. Come and get it... if you want it that is...

Lippo Centre is awesome  :thumbsup: When lurking at ST, I saw your non-HK bats. Those reddish Moscow towers and I think they look cool, though maybe the red should be little darker  :-\ And that Glenni's suggestion making Finnish non-highrises was good  ;D But don't do the Cirrus, the Box isn't cool. Btw, what is your native language if it's not english or finnish?

Benqt:
he he he;-)
Actually it is Russian. But I've been speaking English more then half of my life as my normal daily language so I would count those two to be on almost equal footing. In some respect and situations English is in fact easier for me and is anyway often a preferred language. But I do use Russian on regular basis so it is quite good too ;-)
Finnish is a weakest link here... as it is mostly limited to work... And even there English takes over a lot. All the private life is almost entirely in English as it is the only common language everybody in my very international circle/circuit speaks well.

BTW here are the latest pics of the "red" building:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg361.imageshack.us%2Fimg361%2F4436%2Foldyb3.jpg&hash=4fb998e09d542bb475b6bcedc76d03bdedd6b9a9)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg478.imageshack.us%2Fimg478%2F2821%2Fnew1go8.jpg&hash=cb7f7f49d8948541a427d894574283d20da8dcbc)

WoW simfox that is a nice red building....   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I can just see that building in a complex. The way it's set up in the shot would look just perfect for a twin tower sort of thing. :P

I consider complex to be something that is linked together structurally not just compositionally. But of course these could be arranged in various manners. The continuation on this and othe non-asian building is in my new "non-asian torture chamber" in here  LINK (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2067.0)

Here is one Blast from the Past for your judgment.
This is a model of Silver Tower. original is located along 3rd Ring Road in Beijing.
I say it is a blast from the past because it is my very first BAT, or to be precise it was my very first one... Making it I learn my first skills, but also made a lot of mistakes. That lead to the sort of dead end. This was partially doe to luck of understanding how materials and lights worked in 3D environment. So to solve those I put the project on ice and went into Lighting Rigs, Global Illumination , physically (about) correct materials etc... Well you know the rest...
I always meant to come back and finish my baby. But somehow never got around to it. This last week since I couldn't really render anything (for the reason of  updating computer), so yesterday I though to take a look at my old stuff and to my horror realized that I don't have anymore original model files for this one!! I felt quite sad from the loss. And on that quite powerful emotion just went and remodel it all over again. Work that took me 3 weeks last time around somehow was finished in one day.
So here it is Silver Tower of Beijing (so far in "clay")

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg464.imageshack.us%2Fimg464%2F3782%2Fbst1overridecombokl0.jpg&hash=fe8785047fbff063639ef09ffa8d7bfa8363a8bd) (http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/3782/bst1overridecombokl0.jpg)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg464.imageshack.us%2Fimg464%2F512%2Fbst3overridecomboqa5.jpg&hash=3bc025412039bb43b0eeb2a0e7e0fb14e2052382) (http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/512/bst3overridecomboqa5.jpg)

Building like first time around is modeled to the real life size not stretch coefficient used. Normally I model with 1,3 coefficient right from the start. Of course it only applies to major measurements in the building like hight of the floors, windows, doors and such. But all the minor elements are kept unaffected - like say horizontal elements of window frames have same cross-section as do vertical. I thought sometimes about is it a right way? Or should the streching be done AFTER the entire building is ready. On this tower I decided to try this method. What thoughts do you revered members of SC4Devotion have on the matter??

Among other things I finally decoded to make an experiment and see of LODs for entire Mentro Harbour View complesx will be exportable in GMAX. I had my doubts after autoVino made a suggestion that only 16 256x256 pixel tiles could be used to texture the LOD in game. Luckily it went through without a problem. This is very encouraging news for me!!

Reduced the picture widths to 1000 /RJ

Thanks for pointing the "1.3" technique  ;) . I try to adjust the measures visually, but having a rule make things much easier  :thumbsup:

What I dont understand is if that building ( which is again a very nice and interesting model) has been done using the 1.3 or the streching techinque... ::)

And great to know that those big LODs will be useable by the GMAX¡¡¡

Nope this one is 1:1 so it is sort of squashed.
1,3 coefficient will make cube look like cube from game camera point of view...

hmm, tbh i think post stretching might be the better way, as it means that all the detail is still coherent.

It's a very nice building. It'd fit quite nicely into wall-to-wall situations.

As for the stretching thing, maybe it'd be better to pull it upwards by a scale of 1.3, but wouldn't it depend on how things are done, really?

(By the way, if that overhang is semi-transparent, you'll get a black background on it... but there's a workaround - you'd have to edit the alpha maps so they show up)

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 10, 2007, 04:51:03 AM
(By the way, if that overhang is semi-transparent, you'll get a black background on it... but there's a workaround - you'd have to edit the alpha maps so they show up)

Much easier to BAT a base, like a series of steps...then the transparency poses no issues.

hm... that is very interesting discussion...
I was as Caffagrafx suggesting planning to do a base; well not a base but steps some lawn, things like that. And in this case it would be sufficient, but there are situations when this isn't an option, for instance when doing a building with large glass crown, that is a common design element in the moder buildings. I'm not scarred of black, as it wouldn't be there anyway with the export method I us, but to be able to see through such a glass real Simcity the structure is standing in would be huge bonus.
So, I wonder, is it enough to simply have NON white alpha for this to work in game? or what else should be done?

I believe Cogeo managed it for his superb stations..real transparent roofs so you could see the automata. He'd be the best person to ask.

very nice indeed.

Simfox, this might help you some:

editing FSh files (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2330.msg70324#msg70324)

QuoteI'm not scarred of black, as it wouldn't be there anyway with the export method I us, but to be able to see through such a glass real Simcity the structure is standing in would be huge bonus.

Export method or no, the problem lies with how SC4 does the FSHes. So it doesn't matter how you render, you'll get that black background (or whatever colour you use. I recommend a neutral grey so it doesn't have black outlines).

QuoteSo, I wonder, is it enough to simply have NON white alpha for this to work in game? or what else should be done?

Alpha maps are greyscale. The lighter the grey, the more opaque it is. You will need to experiment with it to make sure it all works.

I know that alpha maps are greyscale; but they could also be set to work in Black& White mode - when something is below set brightness is it treated as transparent and above as solid. This is useful to lighten the computational burden when no other state (solid or 100% transparent ) is needed.
Thinking how SC4 uses masks it wouldn't be to far fetched to imagine this sort of solution. And I guess then need to edit some blending (if I remember correctly) values in SC4Model file is just because of that. But game can handle transparencies that is a fact because night views are applied on top of tinted day ones using exactly this method, although the masks aren't 256 shades of grey but something like 16... Wonder if it is possible to set that value higher to get better images...
I also wonder if that tedium of manually resetting values could be automated - little script of something of sorts that would look for set property and set it value as desired. In that case it with mask editing it would be possible to get something like entrance overhangs , bas stops etc to be "semi-transparent" in one piece. For other architectural glass elements those that involve the modeled interior under the roof this method, of course wouldn't work, but at any rate it isn't really needed, that is if we speak of realism. Any enclosed interior would be some much darker then outside (during day) that you wouldn't be EVER able to see through. Glass will always be reflective to the degree making effectively non-transparent unless it is at totally right angle to the view and even then I doubt that brightness differences between outside and inside will be small enough to be able to see something inside.
Please tell me if anything of this makes any sense to you guys...

Bump Bump

Coming the full circle!
This building was my first attempt at 3D modeling about 1,5 years ago. Beijing Silver Tower.
That time around I had to abandon it mainly due to being unable to solve the riddle of the totally reflective gazing of the structure.
Now With experience gained by working on some of mine and other's projects etc, etc, I've felt taht I MUST bring this one to life in SimCity it is my sort of homage to my early days enthusiasm... oh those were the days....
Anyway here is first Mat tests comments and critique is welcome , as always:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg353.imageshack.us%2Fimg353%2F8474%2Fsouthmats1ll0.jpg&hash=287d2fe0614a98cb7a35ee89cc0290016cfb371b)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg453.imageshack.us%2Fimg453%2F4976%2Feastmat1wk2.jpg&hash=10eb90536e6c6540ff37d6ee916acaf76e734044)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F3218%2Fnorthmats1bc3.jpg&hash=ae2c4b73ccf6e1c1b2aa49eb4b90e91a21b7a4c5)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F9546%2Fwestmat1pd5.jpg&hash=8a8c86d0b0c893a73234afddc23539d278c8b38c)

and a blast from the past (1,5 years past):
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That was your first attempt at 3D modeling?  ??? That looks amazing!  &apls

the last one  is from 1,5 years ago, the upper 4 are from today...

I prefer the new than the first version  :P excellent work of course !

The model itself is again a master piece  &apls . A great progress since 1.5 years  ;) ¡¡¡

However I am not sure if I like the reflections this time....  :-\ ... one can see too many buildings there... like if the building was on the top of a hill, over the city centre. But this can be a very subjective opinion, because I am not sure about you used for the reflection... ( I guess a SC4 downtown picture...  %confuso )

Seeing this technique gives me some ideas about reflectios that I will try to use sometime. But I do specially love the geometry  ;D

I have to agree with JRJ about the reflections.

Jeronij:
Sorry, but I don't follow the whole on the top of the hill thing...
What exactly do you mean by that?
Actually putting some Big City SC4 shot as a reflection map may be a good idea, as it should bring in more color compared to the regular shots of real cities which from the top normally look pretty monochrome (well not exactly but there is heavy predominance of grey and various shades of beige with black and white.

I think the issue is that the reflections are a little specific.  You can make out actual buildings, which means when you put it into a city, it will look funny if the buildings do not match.

For that I can assure you that this is NOT the case...
First of all because of the jumble and distortions in reflections.
Second, because when you look now at the model on the black background you eye is automatically targeted on the information available and in this case it is pretty much the reflections. Once in a city the amount of distractions will be such that eye wouldn't be able to process all that.
Third how less specific could it be; what exactly does that level of specificity mean? Because again to do something about it one must understand in no uncertain terms what is and what is desired. then it is possible to find the ways to get there. But if starting and destination points are very vague then the possibility to find the path is rather dim.
I for one don't think that they are too specific, or to be precise (since I'm asking it from other s I must do it myself) they are as unspecific as I believe possible in order to maintain the illusion of real reflection. If for instance as some on other places suggest one should blur them that that wouldn't look like glass anymore. It to add to the reflection map "aerial perspective" thins - that effect when saturation goes down with distance and the brightness levels equalize. it would again sit very well as the distance of those things reflected is just a couple of hundreds of meters. that must be pretty foggy or smoggy day for it to occur. Plus controlling the effect, as it couldn't be for realism sake applier as a simple gradient is rather troublesome and effect would be very negligible and be ruined by two factors . the same eyes inability to focus on things like that in a SC normal settings and the quite noticeable quality reduction when rendered images are compressed into FSH.
BTW does anyone know of ways to make FSH files other then through FSHTool, I mean the way where one can control the compression rates and quality.

I'll try to export the building as it is now and post here in-game shots so what the judgement could be done on how it sits in game rather on plain background.

I think what Jeroni is trying to say is the reflection angle looks wrong...you can make out rooftops of buildings that appear much higher than this one. The reflection map appears to be an aerial shot whereas the angle of orthography that is the game view would suggest any reflections would be of the ground and the bases of surrounding (taller) buildings.

well that's the limitations of th method...
I, to be hones don't see any way around it short of modeling the entire environment, but that is also has it draw backs. One being it will ineveitable be MORE specific. also issues with shadows and things like that will have to be dealt with. Unless some-one could come up with anything more original I think this is the only way to render mirror clad buildings. Some issues could be refined, of course as the image to be reflected, the properties of the reflective surfaces, but the very fact hat you gonna see mostly roofs is a set thing.

edit:
ok here they are
troubles with trible, pardon with reflections...

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the thing is that distance effectively neutralizes the distortions in the reflections so they become more clear as you zoom out...
The shots above are made at Zoom4 and here is how it looks at Zoom5:
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tower is clad with almost mirror like glass, take that into account

Quote from: callagrafx on September 24, 2007, 05:15:03 AM
I think what Jeroni is trying to say is the reflection angle looks wrong...you can make out rooftops of buildings that appear much higher than this one. The reflection map appears to be an aerial shot whereas the angle of orthography that is the game view would suggest any reflections would be of the ground and the bases of surrounding (taller) buildings.

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to explain with my poor and limited english  ::)  ;) ( Thanks Cal  ;D )

Simfox, you are trying things which are out of the posibilities of the game imo  $%Grinno$% ....  so it is normal that you find some troubles  ::) . About your last pictures, I still think that the problem is the perspective in the texture you used for the reflexion, and the fact that any of the surrounding buildings have the reflections makes this more destacable.Also the reflection factor seems to be very high. The building looks like metal more than glass in some areas  ;)

I am sure you will find a good solution for this situation, and who knows?, perhaps a new modelling standard for our community  ;D .

Why don't you make the reflections unrecognizable. Something like the Lippo Centre, I think that would look much better IMHO ;)

Jeronij; Paul:
well because this one is glazed with very different glass then Lippo is. This is much more mirror like one. So it suppose to look like that - practically perfect mirror.
About angle...
I think you mixing wrong things here! ANGLE is independent of hight!so hight of the buildings is actually irrelevant. when you look at the sun and it is too bright you sometimes cover it with you hand - at that very moment the sun and your hand are at the same angle although Sun is, obviously, much higher.
You determination that buildings in the reflection are much higher is coming from actually studying it too much and counting floors. But consider alternative - if (and that is a very big IF - so big that it is practically impossible - I'll explain why later) the reflection at the glass/mirror wall would show in stead of roofs the walls of neighboring buildings -how would it look when buildings around are all small  - like in those shots? The contradictions would be MUCH stronger. And in scenes where it would look better - when tower is surrounded by tall buildings - well then most of it would be obscured anyway.
Now why it is almost impossible - well fro the same very reason - to show something but rooftops in the reflection those objects should be very close to the building but being so close they would obscure the most of it - so you wouldn't be able to see their reflections. So what-ever you turn it the ONLY refections that clouds and should be seen are those of roofs and generally something that much shorter. About ground - that is possible but it I afraid would be even less generic.
About Lippo - it's glass was FAR more transparent - the color there comes from that transparency  this glass is effectively a mirror even the sun directly shines on the tower you can not make out which roads of panes have openings behind them -ed are actual windows and which ate just cladding over the concrete wall.
Also the glass quality on this one seem to be significantly better then on Lippo. it actually have virtually NO distortions in reflections - I guess it is tempered and much thicker then one on Lippo that bands so easily. So my bump on panels is a bit of a stretch as is and making it stronger would be ridiculous.
Rotating the reflection map is a bit cumbersome. Even if it would be possible to find better fitting lines of sight they would be good for only ONE rotation and would need to be readjusted for another. And even then this would work then only with ONE side. Around corner everything would be screwed right there. anyway if anyone has any picture you think would make a good reflection map I'm wide open for suggestions!

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notice the striped appearance of glazing on Lippo

I think the main problem is not how the glass should look like, based on physical laws, but how it looks like with the SimCity 4 color pallet and the way Maxis chose their textures for the game. As much as I admire your efforts to make it look "perfect", most people here would like to see something that fits well into the game. This is why people use gradients and fake stuff, even if it looks not right compared to the real world. The same counts for your efforts with TruNite and similar stuff - while it looks spectacular on its own, it might break with the overall appearance of the game. Simply put, your textures are "too good" for the game. ;)

This is a problem that's been waiting to happen.  While I don't agree with Andreas that we should be bound by the Maxis look and feel, there are limits to what the game will allow us to do and in going for a hyper-real approach Simfox has run into one of them.

The slightly cartoonish feel of the Maxis buildings instantly forces a suspension of disbelief - we know they're not accurate, but they are far enough from reality that we accept it.

What you've done here, SimFox, is given us a building that is realistic enough that the suspension of disbelief is broken.  Those sharp reflections have to be accurate; our minds won't accept the fact that they are not of the surrounding buildings. 

Lotmakers are going to run into the mirror image of your problem with the CAL canals - there will be objects on the side of the canal that should be reflected, but aren't and it just won't look right. 

We can definitely improve things in terms of sharpness and solidity by using a sun/sky rig rather than the Maxis lights and Max has opened up a whole world of shiny materials that Maxis didn't go near (big thanks to you and AutoVino), but, as I said elsewhere, the laws of physics stop at the lot boundary and that is a game limitation that could only be over come by creating sets of buildings to be used together.  That would look fantastically realistic, but it doesn't allow for random growth or reuse by lotmakers.

Whether you're a BATter, lot-maker or modder there's a point at which the game limitations will present you with a dead end - unfortunately your talent with Max has brought you up against a major one in double-quick time.

Just a quick thought on what you are reflecting, though - if you use a reflection map that has the roof line of buildings at the lowest  height of your glass nearest and which get progressively taller the further away they are, then you will find that if your building is standing in the middle of lowrise you'll see the low reflections, and as the height of buildings surrounding yours increases they'll hide the lower reflections, keeping thing relatively realistic.  Make the reflection more blurry (even if it's not physically correct!) and you should get your suspension of disbelief back.

QuoteI think you mixing wrong things here! ANGLE is independent of hight!so hight of the buildings is actually irrelevant. when you look at the sun and it is too bright you sometimes cover it with you hand - at that very moment the sun and your hand are at the same angle although Sun is, obviously, much higher.

Actually, height of building governs how far out of the building's footprint the reflection extends so it is very relevant to the reflection map.  A 2 storey building would only reflect the ground 6m (for arguments sake) from the base...now a 20 storey building would reflect 60m from the base and that would include any buildings that fall into that zone.

Unless the building is at least twice as high as the surrounding buildings, then you will not see the roofs reflected, the AOA is way too steep for that...You will get reflected ground and the roofs of 2-3 storey buildings only.  The game is random enough that it'll soon be surrounded by other, taller buildings and look peculiar.  You are over-engineering a game asset, trying to bring a degree of realism into an old graphical game and the game falls short.  Simply change the texture to be less reflective and blur the map and you'll have another beauty for people to play with.

edit:  Sorry Richard, just read your edit...looks like we're saying the same thing :)

yep.. that's a tough one...
Bringing what is essentially large mirror into SC4 isn't for fainthearted...  $%Grinno$%
This is the reason I've abandoned the project in first place. And speaking about blurring thins . if you look at 1,5 yo render - there it is  - blurred reflection - looks awful. And trust me it wouldn't look any better today.
So clearly the solution should lie in making those reflection less specific but keeping them sharp and contrasty to keep th feel of material. At least that's how I see it. And if you look at some Maxis buildings so did some of the original artists, others (seemingly majority) thought the smudging things would fit better. I don't share their view, no, sorry, I just don't. And yeah I'm not here to add more of the same, but something different.
Please understand me correctly I really value all your opinions and would very much appreciate if you guys would continue to share them, and always say what you think and feel and not the pointless compliments (unless you really feel like that and don't need to compromise) The whole point of this thread is exchange of ideas and view and not to collect applauds and some such.

I value your expertise and experience. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna "turn" , but we are the product of influences of the environment. and You are my environment and are essential!

PS
I've been tinkering with both reflection maps  (it is a different now and one that should be more in line with things suggested here - it isn't really and areal photo no more but one made from tall building - so the perspective should be right - plus I've made alteration as to the map itself as to material of glass to make it virtually impossible (for most part to see anything clearly).
Also I think there is a change in look between the render and the final thing game. And it, I believe, comes in during conversion to FSH. 16 million color image is turned in 256color one - a lot is lost and the conversion itself isn't best possible. I guess the age of FSH tool is showing here. Does anyone know anything about format? is there any other way to make FSH files? one what would allow more involved approach??
Anyway here is a new set of in-game shots:
Grill 'em!
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BTW apparently I'm not quite a raving lunatic some of you think... my suspicions and fears about using meters as a system unit with Mental Ray had been confirmed. According to the information from Mental Ray developer there is an certifiable issue with AT LEST orthographic cameras - eg ones used in BAT. So here it from the as saying goes Straight from the horse's mouth:
"It seems from my research that max places the orthographic camera "100000" units from the scene. The problem is that a single precision float (which all geo data in mr is, to save space) is only accurate to about 8 decimals.... so this is why values in inches (that tend to be in the 0.5-10 range) work fine whereas the same number in *meters* which end up being approximately 0.002-0.25 go beyond the decimal limits.... i.e. 100000.5 can be expressed cleanly in single precision float, whereas 100000.002 can't...."
Same highly knowledgeable "horse" urges those who has experienced the problem to launch bug report with MAX so that it could be recognized as such and fixed - quite possible by this very MR expert! HE says if he himself would rise this issue with Autodesk they would dismiss it as there are no complaints from end users!

That looks better as the reflection, while sharp, is more generic.

Cal, if you put a mirror beside an object and look down on it from the SC4 angle, you will see the top of the object if it is close enough to the mirror, provided the mirror is higher.  but it doesn't need to be twice the height like you said.  The issue with the first face is there were too many buildings in it I feel.  There should have been one or two.

Simfox, the new tower looks great, the glass reflection may be too dark, is it what it looks like in RL? Anyway, looking forwards to the next update.

QuoteSo it suppose to look like that - practically perfect mirror

There's no such thing as a perfect mirror, though.

I'd suggest using a texture that does not make the reflection so obvious. Maybe if it wasn't made so reflective, it'd fit in better.

BST nears it's completion.
This is a sort of texture test..
Tell me do you think those patios are way out?? or that they do have some right to exist given the oriental location  ;)

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As for reflective... well first of all there is such a thing like Perfect mirror, (if we not speaking in terms of physics but ordinary perception. and ANY glass if you look at it parallel to the surface will be one. Even totally NOT mirrored.

When you say (not just SA but generally things like "texture that does not make the reflection so obvious" plz do tell what exactly that imply... cause sometimes I'm not really sure. Exactly HOW not so obvious. It may be something clearcut when such a general terms are used but once you start making it you need to know what EXACTLY  you're trying to accomplish... Knowing what it should NOT be isn't quite enough...

DM:
Well they should be somewhat lighter... but if I make them so first of all building looses some of the definition as more of it moves in to just few shades of grey, and also reflections become more traceable. So it was quite conscious move, but I think I'll lighten them just a tad. See the last render ... what do you think should they be lighter or darker??

I'm thinking of may be adding entrance to underground parking garage... that would for instance solve the problme with the reflections at the very bottom of curtain wall - those that are most problematic...

Quote from: SimFox on October 03, 2007, 02:48:20 AM
I'm thinking of may be adding entrance to underground parking garage...

That would solve the parking problems when lotting and not having parking space on it. ;)

For the sake of realism I hope you'll be adding some other doors as well, at least to the patios. :thumbsup:

I suppose the main entrance(s) is/are within those openings where you've placed a lawn.
If that is the case, a pathway will need to be laid in LotEditor to them (I hope the lawn isn't part of the bat).

Please, do not walk on the lawn! $%Grinno$%

ha ha---
Doors are totally overrated!! $%Grinno$%
Actually entrance is in the semicircular part under the main tower. I'll be making some sort of rotating door system there.. About patio... hm I though that doors are there but they are very much integrated into that curtain wall... I try to somehow denote their location. I'm also thinking of what to do with patios how and whether to populate them...

QuoteDoors are totally overrated!! Grin No

I suppose that depends on which side of them you're on  :D :D

Man, the roof in that building is really awesome  :o ¡¡¡¡

I`ll repeat myself. Outstanding geometry. Excellent  :thumbsup: . As well as most of the reflections. The only thing that I dont like are those circles in the windows  ::) .... and I cant help you much about this because I dont know exactly how it should look like either  $%Grinno$%

Anyway, the building itself is really inspiring.  I really like it  ;)

Yep
We shall all teleport all the time!! Beam me up...

Jeronij...
yeah those... the circles are funny that's true.. I'll see if I can somehow make them less so...

This is really an amazing model!  :o :shocked2: It is turning out be be really sexy... ;)  ::)  $%Grinno$%

But I'm going to have to add my voice to RippleJet's request for doors.  :D But I'm glad to hear that you are on it!

Looking forward to this one then!  :thumbsup: Great job thus far!  &apls &apls

great work Fox!  :thumbsup: I really like the architexture of that building. Im curious as to what your next work will look like  :)

Quote from: Filasimo on October 03, 2007, 06:13:54 AM
...architexture...

Interesting neologism that one! :P I also love the architecture and the texture of the building!  :D Thus, we both love the architexture!  $%Grinno$%

It looks great, but I'm just not sure if the uber-reflective texture would fit in with the other buildings in the game.

It's kind of too realistic for the game. What I meant by the texture was that one which fitted in with the slightly non-realistic textures that Maxis used might be slightly better. The texturing of the windows on the Moscow Red you released a while ago is probably closer to what I'm talking about.

Suspension in disbelief is the key here, folks! :P If it fits in with the game well, then maybe, just maybe, we can disregard the breaking of the laws of physics (it's Somebody Else's Problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_Else%27s_Problem)), notably of reflections and how they're supposed to behave. But if you've got something that drips as much eye candy as that building of yours, it makes everything else in the picture look a little... not real (and drab), if you get my drift. :P

Otherwise, all the other textures are perfect. It's just the windows won't ever reflect the true city skyline, and as a result, will look out of place.

well, well, well... what is going to be next... Not sure yet... I have several projects in various stages of completion. One Silver Sea, MetroHarbourView, Ukraina... But I think realistically sometimes in next 10 days I could release separate towers from MetroHarbourView - those would be more useful then entire behemoth itself (something like 20x9 game squares) while individual towers would sit comfortably on 3x4 LOT. Towers Are practically done (even night lighting) The whole project had been postponed due to the fact I just couldn't find any additional imagery of the base and also because that time my computer was a bit too slow to tackle the entire complex (E6600). So in about a week or so after the BST will be released there may be about 4-5 different towers available as well...
SA:
you just can't compare the two.
The are suppose to be completely different! RED has regular glass this one is almost mirror like glazing- how could I make them with same material?? It is a whole point of this exercise to bring something that hasn't been there before. Yes this building looks very different compare to MAXIS ones, but one have to keep in mind that Maxis didn't really go much into the whole glassy thing, and few of models with clouds could be discounted as they neither look good or realistic, nor did they "go well" with the rest of line. What probably makes the difference is that you've been watching those for 4 years now. But it you try to sort of reset your perception and take a look with a fresh eye you'll see that maxis buildings were created by more than one team with quite different approach, so as result some building hat are logically fall in same category are in fact VERY mismatched.
So given the absence of this type of building in Maxis stable I feel it is wrong to compare it to bricks and mortar or low reflection Maxis stuff. In real life buildings of those type will also look very different and some (many in fact) say that they just could not and shouldn't be placed near each other. But next to Lippo it would look very different, and there will be more of similar kind (although I think I wouldn't be making quite as reflective ones simply cause I'm not a great fan of giant mirrors. This one I just had to finish since this is my very first bat and I don't want leave it half-backed.  But then it will be presented to judgment of public.

Suspension of disbelief or just a force of habit? Criteria of fitting in the game is first of all personal on some level, and secondly also dependent of acceptebale level of innovation. As such it isn very much a kin of the whole discussion of traditional and modern architecture.
If you believe that you can see much of a "skyline" from such an angle in ANY building in the real world you're very much mistaken - in reality due to very MANY factors all you would see are flashes of color and light. But DEFINITELY not a skyline.

I agree with SA that it is a bit beyond the normal look of SC4, but it would most certainly not be the first. It is comparable to the BATs of this person -> Click! (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?page=1&Keyword=altuditu&view=all)

And I personally think they fit in in a more compact and dense CBD.  ;D Which reminds me... those need to be CAMified too.  :D

I sometimes make two textures. The one in the foreground is a medium to dark gray texture at around 10% opacity. These are the glass panes. Then right behind these smaller glass windows I'll place a large texture with clouds or whatever. You can see the clouds through the very faint front glass. Then you can play with the opacity of the cloud texture to get the desired amount of perceived reflection. Like maybe around 80%. You can then nitelite the glass in front as desired.

A little something on the subject of what is reflected at the game angle on a highly reflective glass surface - this is a little slice of Kuala Lumpur taken from the KL Tower.  Take a close look at the building in the foreground:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F88%2F225230814_d71b362ac9_m.jpg&hash=9c6c21de632e6a05f0d2db428ae0f03752c756e2) (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/225230814_d71b362ac9_o.jpg)

Click on the image to get the full size version and feel free to complain about lack of roof junk on the building in the bottom right  ;D

QuoteWhat probably makes the difference is that you've been watching those for 4 years now.

Now, I agree with that... I've had SC4 since it came out.  :D

I suppose I'm really a traditionalist at heart... but it's just a little hard for me to find a place for the building where the reflection won't stick out so much. :P

Anyways, do keep this up... there's really nothing wrong with it :P

SA :thumbsup:

Golden sunset anyone??
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Excellent work with texture !! &apls

I love the look of that at sunset.

Now, how would it look at sunset with a collection of other buildings that you've made?

Simfox that is amazing golden sunset indeed....  &apls &apls

what is one of simgoobers office buildings doing in the background of that shot from the KL tower... ;P great work on this simfox.

Quote from: mightygoose on October 05, 2007, 09:08:14 AM
what is one of simgoobers office buildings doing in the background of that shot from the KL tower... ;P great work on this simfox.

Goober is everywhere

I think the main thing that makes it feel so out of place ingame is that the reflections are so busy. Nothing in game is anywhere near that busy. I suspect you might be able to get away with it if you simplify what you're reflecting.

well the more buildings like that SimFox makes, the better they will fit in  :P  :thumbsup: Dont lower yourself to Maxis standards SimFox!

That building is awesome!

Where has our favorite BAT genius been?

Quote from: Sim Shady on January 27, 2008, 08:56:18 PM
Where has our favorite BAT genius been?

China!

:-)
I have been here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg165.imageshack.us%2Fimg165%2F1791%2Fdsc5220tf9.jpg&hash=93065ae962098fc060892776259b36542d4a3679)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F5039%2Fdsc4818ta4.jpg&hash=22985f76aa9c9340f812fd041d87a337d8ae68f0)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F4187%2Fdsc54811uf9.jpg&hash=c7f7f712509502bcf4493e89715d0515891c412e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg184.imageshack.us%2Fimg184%2F3555%2Fdsc54812xk9.jpg&hash=735751e130c080d7d076cd1f14e0481b14d1d7ee)


and here:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F8335%2Fdsc3809ym1.jpg&hash=80d619a98f98475c9cd99dab77ceaf24144769d4)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F5583%2Fdsc4097sk2.jpg&hash=b6c5ea07b281b6e1a5b44ee52fdc56ac6eb2ba73)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg112.imageshack.us%2Fimg112%2F864%2Fdsc3842ce4.jpg&hash=bf480c07276794dbd4976ef5d854aec3b1265e82)


and here:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F9744%2Ftj1vi6.jpg&hash=b7ff13b2a0d331d30fd2416ba2a82ef8f1cfcbe7)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg502.imageshack.us%2Fimg502%2F4338%2Ftj3gy4.jpg&hash=fce7926852e943a342e622e42fcab18333df4310)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F103%2Ftj4bn2.jpg&hash=ad32245163cb4a77956d0c399537ebe4e9f5340e)


and here:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F5800%2Fsh1hc8.jpg&hash=e06b7e33dfb8b6115a3faac68abe82c474bf0690)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F4057%2Fsh2os6.jpg&hash=a7d77a5043e98084c1c45cb1bc9cec176ac01f3a)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F109%2Fsh3sq3.jpg&hash=7831b9c4ebf5fa13b2c2247975e78d937e54e8f5)

Welcome back home, SimFox from there, and there, and there, and... ::)

It must have been an experience.
Quite exotic and different from the currently wet and dull homeland! :)

Funny thing, all those places are right now as wet and cold as homeland. In fact there is more snow in around Shanghai then around Helsinki:-)

These were taken in December

Those are very nice pictures, thank you for sharing them and welcome back.  You must be full of new ideas now.

Robin  :thumbsup:

LoL Simfox that is something else all those pics.... Welcome back and I hope you had a great time in China...

Rooker, Pat:
Yeah I have got tons of idea, unfortunately (at the moment) very little time to realize them.
BTW I did go around Beijing Silver Tower and had been very disappointed... the side that I couldn't have found any pictures of is absolutely blank... It just an wall with no opening s of any kind on it...

Quote from: SimFox on February 02, 2008, 09:15:05 AM

BTW I did go around Beijing Silver Tower and had been very disappointed... the side that I couldn't have found any pictures of is absolutely blank... It just an wall with no opening s of any kind on it...

Excellent news ¡¡¡¡. It fits my modelling skills perfectly  :thumbsup:  ;)  :D :D ¡¡¡

Nice to see you back and I hope you'll find some time to model something nice   ;D

Wow looks impressive!  That foilage down the avenue in one of the pictures is really cool.  Sounds like you did not experience any trouble from those bad storms China has been having

Quote from: Sim Shady on February 04, 2008, 09:16:40 PM
Wow looks impressive!  That foilage down the avenue in one of the pictures is really cool.  Sounds like you did not experience any trouble from those bad storms China has been having

I've left before they hit country...

OK, good falk!
I've got some time on my hands now and am planning to get back to bating...
I've made some additions to OSS (One SilverSea). Actually they are large the  one may initially think.

Central Towers were redone as I've decided to clean up the model. Materials were re-vamped as well as rendering settings.
Also Base is getting populated bit by bit.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg404.imageshack.us%2Fimg404%2F821%2Foss20083southbigyw1.jpg&hash=b2ac4fcc9e218e45acf50345caddbc8eb5b030cb)

I've also finally found solution to pesky AA (Anti-aliasing, not Alcoholics Anonymous) problem with MR. Sadly it doesn't leave quite as much room for maneuver as does V-Ray, but still...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg509.imageshack.us%2Fimg509%2F2629%2Foss20081nm9.jpg&hash=ac9e75b8e18694adc47356b0ad97cd0c99c250d5)

But there is still a LOT of modeling work left to be done. It is a huge building and to do justice to the detail at Zoom5 will require a lot.

 &apls All hail the Great and mighty Fox  &apls !!! Now where's that stupid bow icon??

That looks awesome.  I love these huge LOTs.  I really like what you have done with the base as well.  Outstanding work.

Robin  &apls

would love to know how you did the water.

Really nice pictures :thumbsup:. The model looks better and better. It really makes me want to launch the MAX and modell something  ::)  ;)

Quote from: RebaLynnTS on February 20, 2008, 07:58:21 AM
would love to know how you did the water.

A simple way is a reflective material with a procedural bump map, then let Max's physics do the rest.

 &apls  WoW Simfox that is stunning work!!!

that is indeed pixel torture LOL... amazing, simply stunning, You are definatly one of the greater BATers around

Joe

thank you, thank you , thank you!

As saying goes - pride before fall. Next day after posting these pictures here and boosting of the solutions found I open the scene and... ta-dah! getting message that MAX can not open the file! And of course I don't have any reserve copies (I mean with latest additions) and all the autobackup files have been overwritten by other files I was working on...
What it means is that I would have to go through tedious process of remodeling all the stuff I've done last time. And what have proven even more complicated finding the colors and lighting settings I used.

Yesterday I've spent 2 hours trying to get right shades of brown... with only moderate success...

But that's life. OSS will be built!

RebaLynnTS:

well Callagrafx had partially answered your question.
I want to add just few points.
Depending on your needs water could be transparent/translucent say when you make a pool or fountain where you want to see bottom or solid for instance in case of lake.
Also Water could be modeled to be a simple plain  with say noise map in bump slot to give ripple impression, or volume  - say box.
Second option offer some visual advantages. For instance like in this case water doesn't need (and generally shouldn't have) diffuse color also it doesn't have a solid refraction color (that is tinting anything beyond the plain water). In stead there is that color depends on the depth of object. So if you look closely at the sides of the pool you'll notice that transition.
Of course one must ask is there actual need for this, especially at this scale. The answer is personal and perhaps more NO than YES. But still why not. Also I've learned on personal experience it is worth ones while to do thing right, correct. It will be easier later on to fake thins when needed...

To cut long story short. This water is in the end renderer specific (in this case specific to Mental Ray v 3.5 and later) and wouldn't work with others (except Final Render).
Effect though could be rather easily replicated in any raytracer render (eg NOT scanline).

If there is an interest in such a materials I could may be have a little collection made later on.

All I have to work with is GMax, and I am a long way from knowing what all it can and can-not do.

Quote from: RebaLynnTS on February 21, 2008, 08:25:20 AM
All I have to work with is GMax, and I am a long way from knowing what all it can and can-not do.

Quite simply, it cannot bump map or raytrace, so any water you'd want to do would have to be a bitmap texture like these:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fthumb_93%2F1161813805fYebM8.jpg&hash=a5d6c071d70343c62f679ce5642577386eb16250)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage58.webshots.com%2F458%2F7%2F34%2F70%2F2634734700033374621fUDGVC_ph.jpg&hash=8130dc578f3832eba4b4303f78f4433d2082572f)

Here's a load of them:

http://www.vterrain.org/Water/textures.html

Thank you for the link. Maybe if I get my book published, I'll make enough money to buy a decent modeling program :)

RebaLynnTS:
BTW there is absolutely free and quite decent modelling program called Blender

Take a look here:

http://www.blender.org/

It has wide set of tools with all the current standard features of any 3d package. Also it is constantly evolving and has large community around it so the help and advise could be easily found if needed. It is absolutely cross-platform (Windows/MacOS/Linux) and can export on formats which GMAX, for instance can accept. In fact one guy on Simtropolis did managed to produce one model in Blender and export it in GMAX. There were some problems but I'm absolutely sure that they all are solvable. Of course many see GMAX limitations mostly in the speed and functionality of it's renderer, but I believe that it is impaired even more in terms of modeling tool set. So Blender eve as a modeling stage could be a big improvement.

Thank you for the link. I will check it out.

it has been a while. But I haven't gave up on my Asian projects, just they keep get reshuffled all the time... &mmm

but here are couple I've started this weekend. they modest size mean that they are likely to be released rather soon...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi045.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F46%2F46459cce46c7.jpg&hash=914026ceaa8e3a82cb939a510050a995af22e2e5)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi014.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F44%2Fc6fb5f8600a0.jpg&hash=02d3b4505f09563d6bf29a18febeb50ae2f22454)

I'm not really a fan of the colour of the above one, but that's your choice. The lower one, on the other hand, looks really great.

I on the other hand LOVE colour of the first one, and the second one is also very beautiful! But I like the first one more.

&apls

Caspervg:
And what is ticking you off in that color? I'm, myself isn't quite satisfied. I know it is somewhere near, but can't quite pin-point it. I've spend literally hours pulling sliders or RGB...

Current state:
This one is suppose to be dense midrise W2W CS$$ or CO$$ 4x4 corner lot... So I have a question what is common floor hight of W2W buildings?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi032.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F23%2F8cd60bb7392d.jpg&hash=6990c067ec027780d7a7e6a9c5f1f61cbc5a87bb)

 :thumbsup: &apls OMG Simfox~~~~~~~~~

 :o Stunning. I would use this on every corner its so beautiful! lol

Looks wonderful. As for size, it would be good to have something W2W that is bigger :)

Well it is a first try for me to make a W2W building... some mistakes were made...

Originally I've planned for it to be a combo of 3 buildings. But I've decided to drop small "Bodum" shop on the left. Bodum not because it would have been exactly that - Bodum Shop, but because it would have used idea of Bodum Flagship shop in Copenhagen - it is mere 5, or so, meters wide but 6 storey high. Well Ive dropped it because in my later considerations if this is to be grow lot and I hope it will be, it wouldn't be right for exact same combo to grow all over. Plus I've though to create arch into yard and it seemed to be a good spot for it...

The right hand side "annex" is still there since it was planned to be integrated both structurally and stylistically with main building. But it since that this integration has gone too far. It is hardly an annex, rather just a part of main building, oh, well...

The building will follow 2m convention that seems to be prevalent in W2W designs.
OK, 'nough with words...

South
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi021.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F5d%2Fd7a79fa146ec.jpg&hash=2078285b23fd677b53fb9fab0cd5a6102f49372a)

East
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi042.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Fdf%2F0a0e4112bbca.jpg&hash=786266ec40864929287d538c893e3509bd089389)

North
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi049.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F01%2F1537ed395b3b.jpg&hash=02c79d428a7c74c2caaf9db26020c1dcc0c75896)

West
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi011.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F81%2F8072c0312c8d.jpg&hash=f2d6c07be0172224274dbc9c8d27d1e9ff96e936)


and "beauty shots" in same order:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi008.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Fcb%2Fb17f3fe33ce1.jpg&hash=739d76e3b639bff763a6a52dd9eee222ad50d119)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi034.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F37%2F78bea9fce4ae.jpg&hash=ac07493d9044f111eb6abff99a1c61732d83d3df)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi020.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F50%2F7ee75bda7abc.jpg&hash=30882d6d3226812858902f3bc5975f5b9b1280c8)

well west perspective is exceedingly boring since it is just a dead wall there...

 $%Grinno$% Plain walls don't have to be a bad thing. :P I have a question, is there any plans to make the group floor windows to not look "empty"? - perhaps store fronts we all know and love?

This is looking just awsome....when finish it's going to be one of the best buildings available for SC4

baconrocky:
naturally shop windows will be filled. Not sure about what brands will be there or, may be just some "generic scenery".

delija21
Thanx, man!

Well, I would put my vote for brand names! lol

if it is available I will download it at once!!!
it looks soooo nice!!!  :thumbsup:

I'm a bit stuck with Shop windows...

So if you, fusion_lemon, have any suggestions I would like to hear them!
So far I was thinking about UNIQLO, Giordano, Baleno - basically I wanted to keep Chinese feel to it...  I also need the some sort of name for the mini mall - one with entrance at the corner. Any ideas?

If you want a typical modern Chinese mini mall feel, Giordano, Baleno are typical ones that you must not miss (haha)
UNIQLO is okay~ but I think not as popular as the previous two...
I'm also thinking of some international brands which are also very popular in mainland China - Starbucks and KFC, these two are very popular in modern Chinese malls... =]
McDonalds, unluckily, isn't on the list =[
If you want to introduce more variety, u might even put a bank (HSBC would be fine, or any large Chinese banks you name it)


I remembered you mentioned in the neighbouring site that you got this idea from a building in Hangzhou (it that you? I've got a poor memory...)
Perhaps you can use the West Lake as an idea
or something Chinese and then _____ Plaza... who knows?  &idea

Well here is my take on shops...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi056.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F66%2F4490c4ce5dd5.jpg&hash=ef1407ec62df56461ceccbe6d36af6060f9679a8)
BTW I quite like Uniqlo... it isn't anything unique, but it provides good basics. Giordano, on the other hand went down IMHO... few years ago when i fist came into their shop in Shanghai I really liked it. Plus it was very cheap. Now prices are up and everything else is down...

And here is a shot (the only one I made) of that building... And that was from the window of fast moving car... I was trying to find it on either Google earth or edushi, but somehow didn't managed it. I though I did follow all the routes still...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi032.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Fd0%2Fc1045980e016.jpg&hash=f4f940b44fca21ba71cc46d9328bab0437f15466)

btw I've changed the "stone" part of the building back to whitish as is in original, and I think it goes better with green paginated mental of the upper part. The yellow color before was as an attempt to blend into the game...

That is very impressive Simfox :thumbsup: The detail is outstanding with the cages for the air conditioning units on the lower windows.

I must say, I like the new colour better than the yellow

I am still in awe!!!

Nice work :thumbsup:

Oh, nice job SimFox,
(a little sidetrack) in fact I like UNIQLO, its style is more trendy compared to many other brands I think, my newest T-shirts in the wardrobe are all from UNIQLO... :-[
Giordano is surely a very well-known for its popularity in public, but I'm too afraid just when you see people on the streets are all wearing the same thing from Giordano, coz it's really economical and good  ;D

Looking forward to seeing ur progress!!!  :thumbsup:

Thanx!
I was thinking to skip the actual AC units though... and leave those cages, just as ones on higher floors as a purely decorative elements... Or is the vox populi that AC units should be added in?
I also think that the white fits green better (not something I would think of without actually seeing it), so it will stay this off-white...

Actually this building is pretty interesting as it its an illustration of China's progerss. Original has been built sometimes mid 90s and it looked like this even few, say 5 years ago:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.edushi.com%2F%2FuserupImages%2Fpic_hz%2F10%2FOwner3890720059715311080915.jpg&hash=3f20d94b6064967237f5ac54fae67292db309ccd)

but now it has got a face lift with all that patinated metal and marble cladding on the lower levels. it is hardly recognizable. ut it has to be this same building, since it is located in the same street corner. Plus you can see the first character (presumably in the name of the building) on both pictuers

In fact I saw that first character "秋" (qiu) in ur photo and I managed to search if it is on the road of QiuTao "秋濤"
but all that I could find with a similar outlook was that CHina construction bank, until you upload that "old photo"... --> exactly!!!!!!  ;D
I saw that in edushi 3D map, it was somewhere in the southeast of hangzhou, I think it has a large component of China Construction Bank in it, but the building's name is the six golden Chinese characters just above the entrance.

Those six characters "秋濤綜合大樓" were meant to be 秋濤 QiuTao (the road's name) 綜合大樓 Complex Building, perhaps you can just name it QiuTao Complex for simplicity~  :)

------------------------

yup, I agree that progress in mainland China is rocketing.
Without your photo that building is simply unrecognizable

Yeah, I have been trying to trace it by that name... and only that old picutre surfaced (from as you've guessed) edushi map

btw I just now noticed that:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi055.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F54%2Fe1cea55943e7.jpg&hash=0f5e90ef2323678a44aa9800809335560798509c)

big brother is REALLY watching you!

hahaha... that surprise me too~!  ;D
in fact I am not too familar with Hangzhou, though I've been there twice and I quite like this city~
I live in Kowloon of Hong Kong  :P

Quote from: SimFox on June 17, 2008, 03:41:47 AM
I was thinking to skip the actual AC units though... and leave those cages, just as ones on higher floors as a purely decorative elements... Or is the vox populi that AC units should be added in?

Personally, I don't think they need to be added. You probably won't be able to see them in sc4 detail either. I think it looks great as it is :thumbsup:

Quote from: SimFox on June 17, 2008, 04:22:36 AM
big brother is REALLY watching you!

Thats a whole lot of cameras! :D

omg... omg... this is a must see...
It is a very good display of this building's 3D structure!!!  :o
http://hz.city8.com/POI/38509_E2EP

[flash]http://hz.city8.com/sh725073_GYR2-0.918_0.206_1.309.swf[/flash]

basically you just need to use ur mouse and drag around and scroll for zooming, and the arrows are for travelling towards a new position  :)

That is an incredible resource!!!

Well, my building clearly looks different (apart form metal patinated facade part) form the original, but I guess it's ok. Anyway I though of it as something for W2W set.

Well, I like ur design better... more than the original design!!!  :thumbsup:

I think the original one there was still a bit old in the ground floors and doesn't quite match with those steel+glass design above &Thk/(

I suppose this building can be available soon (?)  ::)

yep, I still have to do nightlighting, though... but I basically know what and how...

Again thanx for that superb site (with Hangzhou walk arounds). I absolutely love that city and that site is almost like being there! BTW I've found there also another building from Hz I was making the yellowish 2 tower complex it is a Richful (yes like that with 1 L) Plaza. I could walk all around that one. Since it wasn't quite far gone as the first one it will be much more tru to life. and generally it is very nice building

the building looks amazing so real can't wait to download it

Do you mean the creamy-yellowish two-tower building in page 10? that would be great~  :thumbsup:

But when I look up in edushi it appeared slightly yellowish in the 3D map, but in the photos it looks white
If you need any help I'm more than pleased to offer help~

Yep, that one. Color wise, well that is the trouble with relying on photos... there are too many variables there to affect judgment - white balance, exposure, camera quality... Seeing something at least one is often a better solution.

Yup, I agree that cause a lot of trouble... especially when someone need to discriminate little colour difference such as dirty white or creamy yellow; or greenish blue with bluish green  ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.edushi.com%2F%2FuserupImages%2Fpic_hz%2F5%2FOwner3449320058221444571468.jpg&hash=c80e14b35dd4a42e9be0f363784b67a2e2cfce8b)
(Yummy! I love Pizza Hut!  :P)


I've got a night photo of your Hz Richful Plaza
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbig5.eastu.com%2Fhotelpic%2F5209511972511.jpg&hash=866fa11ec0e5dd0ca1d74933edaa663c1493ca3a) (the size so small :( )

the 2-towers each got their different names
The shorter tower in front is Hangzhou Commercial Building, while the taller tower behind is Richful Plaza (well, the characters on the tower top is self-explanatory :-[ )

Edit: again this time I present you all with this incredible 3D view of the building
http://hz.city8.com/POI/37977_6XYW

OK, here is something already approaching ready model:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi030.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F4e%2Fa6cd08cd5047.jpg&hash=37faf18cdd8c1157be7f6043f3ee7c03534bf903)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi033.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Fcc%2Fc5793bc7794d.jpg&hash=92b6629d3ae69505222907304bd34753eb9d0a51)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi055.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Fe1%2Ffcf267baffeb.jpg&hash=d427a5886b40c354c67f97fbcb8a8dd3e552c416)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi032.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F45%2Fc5ab756fc2de.jpg&hash=c6936c4fc4aacc49b674a928c595ec4f875491bc)

Amazing simfox!  :thumbsup:   &apls   &apls

Looks super! I like these complexes you've been doing. The city I'm currently working on is the capitol of my sim nation and I can already see this one being the headquarters of some ministry.

no word to describe how realistic it looks  :thumbsup: lol

very impressed~~~
looks sooo real!!! all this is onnly for a game!!!  &apls

the more i look at it the more it seems wrong in terms of proportions, I mean the floor height of the base floors. I believe I've overstretched them... I'll attempt to fix it...
For the game you say? Yes and no... I do it because I like doing it. The fact that it could be useful to somebody else is a big and pleasant bonus...

Ooops, I think that's a minor problem that SimFox can handle it easily  :)
The floor height ratio of upper floors to base floors is about 2:3, from the photo...

I'm so glad to hear from u about that, Thanks soooo much for your tremendous effort in making all these "real stuffs"!!!  :thumbsup:

yes it is!! And I made it 1:1,5 and it was actually quite visible and annoying...
the very bottom floor, though seem to be taller then other base floors, don't you think?

One thing that I can't figure out is what is there right on the street level under that curvy thing with big CITIC logo?

Quote
the very bottom floor, though seem to be taller then other base floors, don't you think?

I've seen buildings with a bottom floor like that... it actually looks kind of realistic... ideal for a lobby area.

Oh icic, From the photo the ground floor does look taller than the other base floors, but not too much... (half a metre is about the size I guess &Thk/( )

Below the red CITIC logo?
On the wall there are the red logo and the Chinese characters and English characters of the bank I assume u know them...
Right on the street level I think it is just an open area for car park while there is a ramp right next to the wall for wheelchair/trolley access...

Thou not of much use, just see how the two-tower looks like in google map  :P
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=30.259785,120.168387&spn=0.002187,0.004699&t=h&z=18
perhaps we can have a glimpse of how the roof junk looks like~ lol


Edit: QiuTao tower in Google map as well
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=30.259368,120.195585&spn=0.002187,0.004699&z=18

I have a question. Do you do requests? If so, can you do the WSFS Building in Wilmington DE? heres some links to  pictures of it , http://www.bpgroup.net/images/photo_500delave.jpg , http://www.macintosheng.com/admin/viewProjectThumb.php?proj=79,  (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg76.imageshack.us%2Fimg76%2F3979%2Fdscf6023zzk7.jpg&hash=5838c0ddf6f901d8fd1b8ad4de5ca26d46e65726)

(another steel+glass great building!!! SimFox is getting popular~~) ;)

Hm... tricky question...
What to say? Basically Requests -  No! But if something interesting is brought to my attention  - Yes.

This building has both interesting and some problematic sides to it. For instance its slight bend. I would put in on both categories at the same time! It plays well with material (glass) in catching and reflecting the light, but would be hard to integrate into the game. Also those photos are Absolutely not enough to model THAT building. There is nothing on them really to go on. Just glass.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi030.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F4e%2Fa6cd08cd5047.jpg&hash=37faf18cdd8c1157be7f6043f3ee7c03534bf903)

is this BAT a complete representation of the real one? Because one curved wall looks a bit strange on a rectangular building..

Paul :) , em.... in reality, it is  :-[
either from google map or the 3D view, that wall with the CITIC logo is slightly curved...

Let's see if he's going to modify a bit on the base-floor ratios coz they seem too tall compared to the upper floors (to make the BAT a more realistic representation of the real building... ;) )

Yep; Paul it is... I'm a bit in doubt myself what to do with it.. Leave it slightly curved like now (and real life) or do something about it... Problem is that this particular spot is obscured by some tree on all the photos...
btw here is a version with shortened base floors:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi039.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F39%2Fd38d72be576c.jpg&hash=02a2cab518e1c9be56b2cb74e295e250c0d4d755)

I really like the colour for some reason :P The sandstone texture on the wall and base of the foyer looks great :thumbsup: Nice work SimFox

Seems better  :thumbsup:
A lovely building~

Quote from: SimFox on June 20, 2008, 03:01:30 AM
Hm... tricky question...
What to say? Basically Requests -  No! But if something interesting is brought to my attention  - Yes.

This building has both interesting and some problematic sides to it. For instance its slight bend. I would put in on both categories at the same time! It plays well with material (glass) in catching and reflecting the light, but would be hard to integrate into the game. Also those photos are Absolutely not enough to model THAT building. There is nothing on them really to go on. Just glass.

OK, I just didn't know if you would.

 &apls &apls Very Good  &apls &apls

For last month all sort of things were distracting me from BAT, but (;-)) now there is a little progress on Richful to report:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs52.radikal.ru%2Fi136%2F0808%2Faa%2Ff82730be77d4.jpg&hash=8ed3bf5ac3177b00885cab5a69f26c88f94293d9)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs49.radikal.ru%2Fi125%2F0808%2F69%2Fd5fdfb555aa5.jpg&hash=5e0a9e2f7db9f79f861d0a854a29420b8acc1b88)

wow love it and is that Pizza hut ?

yeah, it is... But there will be other things as well... I just used PizzaHut to size it up for a moment...

WOW very good bat, this bat will have a place in my city  ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs50.radikal.ru%2Fi128%2F0808%2F58%2F792f3a223e8a.jpg&hash=c171deead02d3d2faf518e8d097ebaeee30e49f9)

Great work on this bat, there are lots of détails it's very good  :thumbsup:

adding some details...

South:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs40.radikal.ru%2Fi089%2F0808%2Fac%2F85497cc7bcc4.jpg&hash=7f1a8086462049537f531c78218762d312a692f5)

East
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs56.radikal.ru%2Fi153%2F0808%2F40%2F7523a82b3232.jpg&hash=f81699361d60c2aadca94c6e5add676fab7da224)

North
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs44.radikal.ru%2Fi103%2F0808%2Fa0%2F9c6c52e88048.jpg&hash=6d5ca00e0143e6fd3edb2a807f287ef2fc207817)

West
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs39.radikal.ru%2Fi085%2F0808%2F56%2Fdf981c5354c9.jpg&hash=963071c18f73907015502d71fd266fcb8a171e71)

I seem to have driven myself into a corner again... The problem is with those underground garage entrances. One on the north side of the building will have an issue with "reversed shadow" if rendered as a part of the building. Making it into separate prop?? Could someone knowledgeable in the subject advise me? I mean I want to keep the number of separate objects to the absolute minimum as not to overburden the game engine. Also those stone things by the exits from garages... If the canopies and stairs/ramps are part of the building itself (Main LOD) then how would those stone thingies could be done? Should then be as en independent Prop?

here are first "night shots" of Hangzhou corner Office/retail building

looking beautiful my friend.... although i dont think pizza hut would have their name written quite so many times on the store front..

Very nice work, but to be honest, the one curved wall really ruins the entire building, IMO.

Textures look fabulous, too.

OMG UNI QLO IS AWESOME

marvelous looking buildings! The curvy bit looks a bit funny on the first one  :)

If you're out of ideas at some stage (althought I don't see that happening any time soon) and want a super interesting building try lloyd's of London:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg118.imageshack.us%2Fimg118%2F7744%2Flloydsbuildinglondonarpnb0.th.jpg&hash=b57d376a3cf2e1cebfd46eaae2737f689d0ece93) (http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7744/lloydsbuildinglondonarpnb0.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_building

What do you think of it?

Great work there on your buildings! They are looking fantastic! :thumbsup:
The night shots are looking beautiful, too! :thumbsup:

Toxic...
oh Lloyds... I have sort of personal relationship with this structure...
I saw it first time (close up) on a rainy night... It wasn't really showering ... just light drizzle... tinny drops were turning into steam whne hitting powerfull searchlights used to light illuminate building (wonder if with current energy prices is still light like that).
Darkness, cold white and blue lighting and steam rising around the foundations of the building made it look like something from Sci-Fi. A spaceship, perhaps, ready to take off to the stars...

but back to earth...

The Hangzhou corner is basically ready. I've finished the last texturing and lighting...
but now I need some advise /opinions - here are three versions:

regular with no ambient light
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg507.imageshack.us%2Fimg507%2F4316%2Fnolightstreetbc0.jpg&hash=bec3c2af72e8f3f066fe45a1822e231735ff24d0)

with moderate ambient light (from the light street)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg111.imageshack.us%2Fimg111%2F8479%2Fnormalstreetah8.jpg&hash=fa631016b83d64d966e2a27ac0f3fdb7f47d76ee)

with brighter ambient light
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg161.imageshack.us%2Fimg161%2F4604%2Fbrightstreetqu4.jpg&hash=f1c05e9fe38b1487d6e286e8ed33b403120e6519)

the last one is probably extreme, but do you think that such an ambient lighting has it's place here?



I plan to make it CS$$, not sure of number of jobs, it's gonna me W2W with 2m standard.

Nah, personally the ambient light wouldn't work because well, it's gotta spill onto the base, yeah?

No need to go overboard with "ambient light"... it looks good in Max, but it wouldn't fit well into SC4, since we know their light system will probably make the game make it look like it's glowing in the dark relative to the ground textures?

Very nice!

  :thumbsup:

I think I would have to agree with SA on that one.

excellent creation Simfox  :thumbsup: very very good  &apls

here is a new one - new office of Sinosteel in Tianjin:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs44.radikal.ru%2Fi103%2F0809%2F0d%2F1115a7f65d94.jpg&hash=b548eb840fb5707e3b1d62bb6e2b7cfcf1158643) (http://s57.radikal.ru/i158/0809/25/c3887f0bbbcb.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi071.radikal.ru%2F0809%2F9c%2Ff36d23bddba7.jpg&hash=71607446b9a6624a98b9832e3d6aac856b5ae85e) (http://s49.radikal.ru/i126/0809/58/2caaaca91054.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs47.radikal.ru%2Fi115%2F0809%2Fd5%2F2597cf31d24c.jpg&hash=1da1554f5b8b2b85effb532043122b490954b427) (http://s55.radikal.ru/i148/0809/52/ae1d3dee74c3.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs53.radikal.ru%2Fi141%2F0809%2F2f%2F708b31d60131.jpg&hash=fbd45381aee51fc9a939ba2492753526b9cbc98c) (http://s43.radikal.ru/i100/0809/7a/25fadee1b7a9.jpg)

^^click on pictures to see full Zoom5 previews

PS sorry for wasteful placement

thats REALLY ACE!.. wow, I am amazed

That's more like a modern art installation than a building ... totally insane, but brilliant!

Are you going to make the shorter building as well?

OMG  &apls that is very impressive   &apls  absoluty amazing  &apls

That is a brilliant design. Excellent job modeling it   :thumbsup:

Was it really necessary to post all 4, exceptionally long, pics?  There really wasn't much difference in the 4 facades.

Looks intersting though.

yeah... I should have made a thumbnails...
I'll do it in a moment...

wow, i msurpised someone could render this building! i have seen it a ton over on ssc but never imagined i would see it here!

Wow it's so beautiful  &apls

All I can say is amazing!  :thumbsup:

Marcszar:
I love your runt! It made my day! Please keep ranting!
I don't agree with all you said, but  the logic you give is impeccable, and as such can and more, SHOULD be said!
I absolutely LOVE the rational for Sinosteel!
Although I'm absolutely sure that entirely different explanation was in the minds of the creators - it is actually first piece or radical Chinese (meaning done by local Beijing agency as opposed to Kool-ha-ases of the world). I believe they just tried to be "cutting edge" which means copying approach of most outrageous ones..

I for one love it and I think it does what architecture suppose to do - represent time - it is alike a postcard for the future - look this way we were.
Again, feel free to keep ranting. your views are solid and hence are valuable!

As for China Telecom, well I love that building too. I find it calm facade with a hint of traditional Chinese design of a trinket ladder to be very successful. It is also of very nice size and looks good in a city (Hangzhou). Generally this could be said about most of the things (although not all) built in that extremely pleasing city. You know it has been vote already many years on a row as most pleasant to live and best to do business in China. You know it has been know for these features since middle ages when it was a capital of Southern Song Dynasty. Stories of the exuberant yet classy life stile and incredible wealth of it's population (mahogany inlaid with silver and ivory floor tiles, restaurants for pets etc, hundreds of restaurant boats floating on the night XiHu- West Lake) were told as far as India and Japan.

Some very nice bat here, very good work

very good job !

 &hlp
wow! hangzhou suzhou part of Jiangnan(Southof yangzi river).
The typical Chinese traditional residence and bridges are Here!
just white black house and water,lake,small boat!
I believe HKTeam will give us more exciting products &apls
Good work....... :thumbsup:

<sigh>

You're happy about something that had was posted more than 8 months ago. >.<

Please do not wake up old threads.

- Allan Kuan

Haha  I forgot it $%Grinno$%
The bats of hangzhou
Now only Qiutao building can download :satisfied: