I am trying to place some offset CAL yacht on my lot so that they will appear in the sea, instead they are still appearing on land. In LE they appear to be placed exactly where the sea is, yet in game they appear somewhere different. Can someone explain this discrepancy, I have seen plenty of other lots with offset props placed in the sea, why is it not working in this instance?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Feugenelavery%2FOther%2Fle_picture.jpg&hash=c5700caa439c37f501584344450b50254c70cdf8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Feugenelavery%2FOther%2Fnew_city-jan._4__001377485696.png&hash=6073cf2397893a133efaf43e045f92d5f9982eb9)
Hi,
I am not sure if this is the right answer but here I go:
You might take a look if these yachts are rendered offset, or that the props that you use are made offset by changing the poperties in the RKT4 entry.
Let me explain.
It is possible to render a model in such a way that the actual yacht is not there where the rectangle is. If you make a prop out of this model you see the yacht placed aside from the prop rectangle.
It is also possible to render the model in place, like almost all models are made. If you make a simple prop out of this model you will see the yacht there where the rectangle of the prop is. But you can make changes to the prop. If you change the prop into a RKT4 type you can offset the yacht by editing the RKT values in the entry.
I have started this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13351.msg385315#msg385315)about this possibility. Please read it.
There you will also read that LE does not show the offset props correctly. SC4-Pim does it correct, so you better use that.
I hope this is of any use to you.
These props are already offset in LE. The strange thing is that they are used in the Benoit's Mediterranean Marina lots and they appear in the right place in LE with those lots. Perhaps he used another program to place them on the lot?
I am not sure I have enough expertise in SC4PIM yet, I only use it to convert buildings to props at this stage.
Maybe you have more than one instance of the props in your plugins? Differently modded props with identical IID's? In that case I advise you to throw out all except one version, because it might lead to Prop Pox or other disasters.
Ok, so I did some more testing. Using one of Benoit's Mediterranean Marina lots, which use these offset boats, I duplicated one of the CAL yacht props and placed it on the lot. Yet again it appeared in a different place in-game. Yet all the other versions of the prop on the lot appeared in exactly the same place. Very confusing.
So I guess my next question is how do I make an offset prop?
Hello,
I didn't know if i started an other topic but i have also a problem with the LE
Whene i opend a lot, say Pz 1x1 Plaza1 and want to replace the building i got a list of everything exept buildings. I downloaded this file
Using the Rush Hour Buildings and Props from this page: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?page=9 and unzipt it into the plugin folder.
This is what i get:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F9%2Fd40r.jpg&hash=dcc5733b88fa08e278173aa225f2ba6dbf2cee60) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/d40r.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F199%2F6p1a.JPG&hash=bd909f6aa4478e5acbc53fe2b15d85c2d602ba40) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/6p1a.JPG/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F835%2Fw95x.jpg&hash=6ecbae83f361ea3fc39354ffc4b622896d07552f) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/w95x.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F541%2F0u3p.jpg&hash=f96ed56dcc110bb971dd784b8449b6b440ed8ff7) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/541/0u3p.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F707%2Fr6yk.jpg&hash=1fb11b2386db81fcfaae9e49f517e1286f8c8373) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/r6yk.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F809%2Fin7t.jpg&hash=9a2307d7dc3f899a2b5bb0f5bbd44d4a34616dcc) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/in7t.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F211%2Fdhdq.jpg&hash=4699ed4058294f42b05f68c38385864db2bfc3d2) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/211/dhdq.jpg/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fthumb%2F833%2Ffcu7.jpg&hash=1b77209abaef27aae46bfe7158835ffdfddee4f4) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/fcu7.jpg/)
As you can see there is no building at all.
Can someone tell me what i did wrong?
Greeting Agathorn
Quote from: eugenelavery on August 27, 2013, 10:44:46 AM
So I guess my next question is how do I make an offset prop?
&mmm Where is this Benoit's Mediterranean Marina lots?
Either way you are assuming that these prop's are "off set" or are you sure? They may simply have been moved on the shaft and appear outside the bounding box.
The prop
moved on the shaft will stop hanging over the water
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T9E1InhZJoY/Uh0LuVGMtSI/AAAAAAAAB_s/KqNf6m5tSxU/w702-h216-no/delsocamento+agua.jpg)
:thumbsup:
Agathorn - %confuso
The lot is very small 1x1, increase the lot and you will see the options! :)
Quote from: NCGAIO on August 27, 2013, 12:45:15 PM
&mmm Where is this Benoit's Mediterranean Marina lots?
Check here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13822.msg398234#msg398234) :thumbsup:
The lots are labeled as offset, and are offset by varying amounts. The problem is not that they aren't offsetting, it is that they are offsetting in a completely different direction from what they appear in LE.
So I pointed you to the thread where I wrote about stupid LE behaviour on offset props. Might this be the clue to your problem? Or did you find something different?
That thread certainly might explain what is happening. I don't have the knowledge to fix the situation however, or to create a new offset prop from the original that offsets correctly.
Quote from: eugenelavery on August 28, 2013, 05:47:33 AM
That thread certainly might explain what is happening. I don't have the knowledge to fix the situation however, or to create a new offset prop from the original that offsets correctly.
Did you already check the lot in the SC4PIM (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2260) to see if it displays the offset props correctly? If not, I'd certainly do so. And it's better than Maxis' LE anyway. ;)
Otherwise, you may want to look into Cogeo's model tweaker (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2072) to offset the original models yourself which sounds like a hassle but actually is quite easy to do.
What exactly do I do in SC4PIM to check if it is offset correctly? My only now how with that program is how to change buildings into props.
Erm, what about opening it in LE and see where the boats are?! :P
The lot is located under the 'lots' tree in the left hand panel so go there first of all: select the lot in the upper right panel. Finally in the panel below, right-click and choose 'Lot Editor'. Two new windows come to the front: the LotPreview and the LE tools.
Also, upon start-up make sure to check the appropriate folders and more importantly, uncheck the default program file folders. By the looks of it you don't have any Maxis' stuff on this lot and unchecking those folders makes quite the difference in loading time.
Quote from: FrankU on August 28, 2013, 01:16:13 AM
So I pointed you to the thread where I wrote about stupid LE behaviour on offset props. Might this be the clue to your problem? Or did you find something different?
In fact there is an explanation for what happens with the use of batch editor for "offsetting props" using RKT4 in this case but I think it would be better put it in his thread already open than open another with the same topic... If you have no objection of course! :) (Since the thread is 2011)
Ok, so I have been fiddling around with the model tweaker. What value do I change to get the yachts to be offset. I altered one value and found the yacht to be floating in mid-air. I have been using the 'Move' tool, is that correct?
Problem solved I think. I have offset the yachts myself and achieved the following:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Feugenelavery%2FOther%2Fnew_city-jan._4__001377790620.png&hash=e619ec5dd28e1cde375ac3ce6206e2f841ab4851)
The placement isn't perfect but that is easy to fix.
Maybe this will help.... :thumbsup:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YF_C7C00NqU/Uh_JW1cvvZI/AAAAAAAACA8/tH1g_UByTSs/w702-h310-no/COGEO+DESLOCAMENTOS.jpg)
note: axes valid only for model tweaker.
This is what I have achieved so far
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Feugenelavery%2FOther%2Ffontvieille_1.jpg&hash=cc9a8c7fb019b576dc1678c72336859b0661cb16)
Ok, so I have another issue which is related to the original one in this thread. Now that I can offset props, is it possible to have duplicate versions of a prop offset in different ways. I thought I could create duplicate props in PIMx but then the model tweaker did not recognise them, and I found them to be offset by the same margins as their originals that they were duplicated from.
Is there a way to work around this limitation, as some of these CAL boats I want to rotate and offset, while others I just want offset.
Hi,
If I understand correctly you several made props from the same model?
Explanation: with model tweaker you edit the model itself. The prop is just a reference to the model. So if you make several props that all use the same model the looks will be the same.
Now if you want to move the boat from the center of the prop rectangle that you see in LE or SC4-Pim you can either change the model with Tweaker or you can change the RKT4 property of the prop. In the latter case every prop can have a different offset. The disadvantage is that the shadow of the model does not move with the model.... Sooo stupid! So the shadow stays where the model should be when the prop offset is zero... So this is only useful for props whose shadows are turned off (yes, that is possible: set "is ground model" to false).
Does this help you in any way?
This does help explain what is happening. So I can't even duplicate the dat file and rename it to get an extra set of models that I can offset differently from the original set?
Hi eugenelavery,
Yes, you can duplicate the model you want to edit. Then you edit the duplicate and keep the original. You can make as many copies as you like.
I had the same question some time ago, and you can read the answers here:
1. How to clone a model and use it in Model Tweaker. Read that here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15598.msg451829#msg451829).
2. Some info on using RKT4 and offset the props. That you can read here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13351.msg385267#msg385267).
If you have further questions just ask!
Frank
Quote from: FrankU on March 02, 2014, 11:07:19 AM
Hi eugenelavery,
Yes, you can duplicate the model you want to edit. Then you edit the duplicate and keep the original. You can make as many copies as you like.
I had the same question some time ago, and you can read the answers here:
1. How to clone a model and use it in Model Tweaker. Read that here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15598.msg451829#msg451829).
2. Some info on using RKT4 and offset the props. That you can read here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13351.msg385267#msg385267).
If you have further questions just ask!
Frank
Thanks for this! Do you use ilives reader for copying the exemplars into a new DAT file?
Yes, I have Reader version 0.9.3.
I can make several clones at the same time and automatically give them new IID's. Very practical.
Quote from: FrankU on March 02, 2014, 12:33:14 PM
Yes, I have Reader version 0.9.3.
I can make several clones at the same time and automatically give them new IID's. Very practical.
I will see if I can figure this out. Seems like a very useful skill if I can get it.
I think I need a step-by-step tutorial or something. I am not able to figure this out.
I could help you, but my time is limited. If you have a bit of patience I can make a tutorial.
Quote from: FrankU on March 03, 2014, 01:42:17 AM
I could help you, but my time is limited. If you have a bit of patience I can make a tutorial.
That would be great. All I am wanting to do is to make 3 or 4 sets of the CAL Small Boats pack so that I can offset them all differently.
OK, eugene, a short one. Maybe it's enough for you.
1. Open Ilives Reader.
2. Open the file that contains the models you want to edit. Probabaly this is a prop pack.
3. In this file you will see all different kinds of entries: Ltext, FSH, S3D, XML etc..
4. For each model that is in your prop pack, you usually find a prop exemplar. Find the exemplar that you want to change. The name is important and also its IID.
5. There is a group of twenty S3D entries that belong to your prop. The TID and the GID are identical. The IID's of these S3D entries are all different.
Usually the prop has an IID like 0x00030000. The S3D files are then named 0x00030000, 0x00030010, 20, 30 and 0x00030100, 110, 120, 130. Etc
6. Select all 20 S3D entries. Right click and select "Copy file(s)" from the menu, or simply use "Ctrl C".
7. Now open a new blank file in Reader. And paste the 20 entries into this file.
8. Right click, Reindex, Rebuild directory file, Save with an appropriate name. I suppose you know these actions.
9. Now the cloning. Select all 20 entries in the new made file. Right click with your mouse and select "Clone"
10. Now a menu appears. You can give in the number of copies and an increment in T, G or I for each copy. I decided to use the fifth digit of the IID for my clones. As far as I know that works. You can do it too. So do it. One disadvantage: you can have no more than 15 clones. Usually that will be enough though...
11. Reader makes a lot of new S3D entries in the file you are working in. Reindex, Rebuid directory file, Save.
12. Now delete the 20 S3D entries that you put into the new file in the first place. Remember: these 20 entries are identical to the ones in the original file and you do now want to conflict with these! Again: reindex, rebuild, save.
13. Your set of new S3D files is ready. These are sort of copies of the original model. You can edit them with Model Tweaker. Of course you have to make new props with these models. You can do that in SC4-Pim. I suppose you know how to do that.
14. Because a set of S3D files is not enough to have the model visible in your game this is not a violation of copyrights. The original prop pack with all the FSH files is still needed. So you can distribute the set you just made.
I hope you understand without the fancy images that usually go with tutorials.... But I guess you are quite experienced with lotting and Reader.
Success!
Thanks, I will give this a go.
Two questions, is there a way to select all 20 S3D entries in one go, as opposed to individually?
Also, since I am trying to replicate a dat with multiple props, should I do this process separately for each prop or can I just lump them all in in one go?
You can select al 20 entries in one go, just like you can do in Windows all the time by using ctrl and shift keys etc.
And you can put all props into one file or make separate files for each. Do whatever suits you best. The game does not care. I myself would put all edited stuff into one file and call it something like "eugenelavery marina props".
Let's see what you are coming up with.
In fact I was going to do almost the same for other props, because I am desperately trying to make an improved and altered Marina Reward.
Ok, so I tried it and all I got when I loaded the new DAT into PIM was a series of coloured shapes.
You mean red boxes? Only in the preview,or also on the lot when you place them?
Did you put the original prop pack into the plugins?
Quote from: FrankU on March 03, 2014, 11:18:05 AM
You mean red boxes? Only in the preview,or also on the lot when you place them?
Did you put the original prop pack into the plugins?
Yes, red boxes in the preview in PIM. I put the original prop pack back into the plugins which solved the red boxes, but then it seemed as though I had not created any duplicates, but just renamed the original props.
The step I am most uncertain of is No. 10
10. Now a menu appears. You can give in the number of copies and an increment in T, G or I for each copy. I decided to use the fifth digit of the IID for my clones. As far as I know that works. You can do it too. So do it. One disadvantage: you can have no more than 15 clones. Usually that will be enough though...Do I check/tick all three boxes that come up? Also by fifth digit what do you mean? The numbers appear 0x000000, do you mean the fifth digit after the 'x'? If so, what do I change it to, anything?
Hi Eugene,
In the menu you can give in the number of copies you want. That's clear I suppose.
Then you have indeed three options:
- Increment Type. Never change that!
- Increment Group
- Increment Instance. Check this one and type the following: 0x00001000.
The first copy of your S3D set of files will then be numbered: 0x00031000, 0x00031010, 0x00031020 etc...
The second set of copies will be numbered: 0x00032000, 0x00032010, 0x00032020 etc...
When I am not completely wrong the name of the "model" that you make will have identical TID and GID as the original, but the IID's will be 0x00031000 and 0x00032000.
Try again and let me know if it works.
Maybe that's better?
Quote from: FrankU on March 04, 2014, 12:13:31 AM
Hi Eugene,
In the menu you can give in the number of copies you want. That's clear I suppose.
Then you have indeed three options:
- Increment Type. Never change that!
- Increment Group
- Increment Instance. Check this one and type the following: 0x00001000.
The first copy of your S3D set of files will then be numbered: 0x00031000, 0x00031010, 0x00031020 etc...
The second set of copies will be numbered: 0x00032000, 0x00032010, 0x00032020 etc...
When I am not completely wrong the name of the "model" that you make will have identical TID and GID as the original, but the IID's will be 0x00031000 and 0x00032000.
Try again and let me know if it works.
Maybe that's better?
Thanks for the help, I will let you know if it works.
Also, when I load the new dat into PIM, should I still have the original one in there also?
The original? Well... you do not neccessarily need the original S3D entries, but you certainly need the original FSH entries. Therefore it is no violation of the copyright.
To be sure I'd say: keep the oringinal file, because nobody releases the S3D files separately from the FSH's.
Ok, I think I figured everything out. Not too tricky once you know what you are doing. Just have to make sure I am rotating everything correctly in Model Tweaker now.
Thanks so much for your help!!!
Ah, good. And that last remark brings me to a last suggestion. When you finally have made all the clones in a separate DAT file: store this in a safe place and use a copy to make the changes in ModelTweaker. A mistake is easily made. Then you throw the wrong DAT file away and make a new copy of the clean original.
And show us what you have done!
Here is a picture of what I have achieved so far.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Feugenelavery%2FOther%2Fmonaco-jan._2__001394248119.png&hash=f4545ef5cad39666095cc0a3d4354806264ccb02)
That's good LOTing ;)
Oh, sure. That was worth the effort! &apls
Quote from: FrankU on March 08, 2014, 09:27:21 AM
Oh, sure. That was worth the effort! &apls
Really the only way to get a tightly packed marina.
When i have a selected lot loaded in SC4PIM, I select the lot editor popup menu item, I have the list of shortcut codes and can select 'b' to slide the bldg over to a corner where the edges can be part of a w2w with other w2w lots creating that 'annex' effect. I am trying to add a second office type bldg that's about 2 or 3 stories high, to this lot in the area shown in the screenshot , resulting in a 'slightly' different building complex plus providing a w2w for the other 2 edges. I cant get a list of buildings to display when using shortcuts to place Lot Editor into the mode for viewing bldgs.
Its been so long since ive worked with LE, Can someone give me a step-by-step for adding additional bldgs on an existing lot?
(https://cptlxg.bn1301.livefilestore.com/y2pieiPK3-GyCYj-XFrW30c8BiB73jHCdf8An0DHGsU9pXglZ02P8RFMd7ub71iutwMt25v_b3to9DllhdOfQlyv6JmE5c3y3uSGEzOSG-i0XY/How%20To%20Add%20A%20Second%20bldg.jpg?psid=1)
As far as I know you can only have one building per lot. You would need to turn the other buildings you have into props. Someone correct me on this if I am wrong however.
Yes indeed. You can have only one building per lot. But you can place as many props as you want.
Now you have to know what we mean by "building" in the sentence above. The "building" we are talking about is the core element of a lot. It contains info on the type of lot, amount of jobs etc. It is called the "buidling exemplar" if you want to be correct.
So one of those, and only one, needs to be on every lot. In Sc4-Pim this "building" has a blue rectangle. This rectangle can not extend outside the lot.
Props can be very numerous. I remember I saw 256 somewhere as maximum. Not sure though.
Anyway: a prop has a yellow rectangle in SC4-Pim. It can extend outside the lot by half its width and/or depth. A prop also contains several properties, but that was not the issue here. A prop can look like a "building": meaning it can look like house, an industrial construction, a commercial edifice.... Take a look in the props list in SC4-Pim or LE.
So you can place your building on the edge of your lot and add a prop next to it. I guess that is what you want to do.
Am I right?