Some of you may have seen my latest posts on Simtropolis/SimPeg, I'm belatedly including a thread here too for my latest project the SV NAM. In case you don't know, SV means Gobias' Sudden Valley HD Terrain Mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2867). The goal is to try and replace the Maxis grass on the transport networks of the NAM. Currently I've the basic Street, Road, OWR and Avenues mostly completed. I've also got a couple SAM and RHW networks and a bunch of misc. overrides for common pieces.
Here's an early shot to show you what to expect:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4486/37579275690_bd4a69cf52_o.jpg)
I'm really pleased with this so far, for me it's the missing link for terrain mods. As you can imagine, options can get very out of hand given the sheer numbers of textures. To begin with they will support RRW, US/EU (default) textures and LHD/RHD, however so long as progress remains at it's current level hopefully that will be expanded thereafter.
Hm yes I saw it on Simpeg too and have been pondering the issue since. First of all - and I'm pretty sure I've said this before - there's the matter of terrain height, i.e. texture changes according to altitude. Though the SV mod doesn't vary that great a deal, the issue remains: what looks good at one altitude might look weird at another.
A naggin' feeling remained and I even thought about it this morning during a 30 min bus ride - staring out the window watching the grass go by. . :D
Then it hit me: if you really want the terrain textures to show through, wouldn't it make more sense to bake the sidewalk into the transit textures and just use transparent sidewalks instead?
What I figured is maybe you could use the inverted alpha masks to apply the sidewalk underneath the road. Granted it may be a bit more work to cover different sidewalk options but I'm sure you can handle the batch processing - besides it'd work for any terrain mod at any altitude. And as an added bonus you could actually have more sidewalk variety since transit textures respond to zone density as well.
We discussed this before, I hadn't forgotten, I've done some initial testing, the effect you mention is indeed visible, plus it's not so much that the textures blend "seamlessly" there is a slight difference with the $$ textures, which are the best terrain match of the three. That said, I am picky, but to a point, overall I just love the look of these textures, I'm particularly happy with the park, it all fits together with the terrain mod really well. I could certainly live with it as it is, using different textures for different zoom levels is a nice idea, but in practice it's simply too much work for this many textures.
As usual you propose an ingenious solution here, in principle that would indeed give better results. From my work with sidewalk mods though, I needed to create templates for every individual texture, this is not such a problem when a typical 0 wealth textures exists for the job, but overall I suspect that would make things harder to do. For the most part I'm not having to create the textures right now, that is automated with a fantastic tool Memo was kind enough to let me have access too. Another problem with this approach, it means fostering a particular sidewalk as part of the mod. Whilst my automation is pretty high, especially once I've got the resources and templates setup, remaking it for different sidewalks is long-winded due to the sheer packaging requirements of such a mod. Then on the other hand it's not terrain specific, so that's a big plus right there. It's certainly something to consider, I think its worth a quick test to see how it works in practice at least, thanks for the input.
Definitely a massive undertaking, but it makes the road textures look heaps better. I'd suggest, though, making the source files public so that it can be modified as required.
Wish you all the best with this, though.
I once wanted to do something similar for NORO, but I never found the time and motivation to do it (since it is a lot of work). Seeing this project makes me happy.
Such a massive undertaking does deserve a K-point. One is sent by yours truly :thumbsup:
Best,
Maarten
I have a question, though. If the difficulty of texture making is dependent mostly on what tools are available, what tools are you guys using?
I ask this because Rivit pointed me to a tool he made several years ago that does the wealthing for you, and get this, you can change the wealth grass to be whatever you want.
Basically the tool from Memo takes the 1 wealth texture, uses the alpha on whatever grass textures I decide and overlays the 0 wealth over the top of it, instant grass replacement in bulk.
I've had a few discussions in this area with Rivit too recently, I never found GoFSH until the last couple weeks, but certainly the tools for me are everything. The SEN was a lot of work to get going, but I wanted to be sure I could change the sidewalks whenever I liked in the future without doing it all over again, so I looked to maximise my automation from the start.
So for the sidewalk mod, I had to make a set of blanks (by hand) where every piece had the original baked-in sidewalks removed. Armed with these, Photoshop Actions can be setup to batch process all files that are opened to add the sidewalk layer to every one. So the real work was making the repository and organising it so that the right colour correction was used for a given piece.
Much the same problem occurs with this mod, before I can work properly I need a repository of every NAM texture. The problem is some textures are still from the Maxis originals (mostly AVE textures), some from the Base Nam, others from the Cosmetic Retexture, then various European textures. If I just simply mirror every NAM file with the new wealth textures, there would be a lot of overlap although it would remove this problem. So a large part of my workload involves getting all into groups so that I can package various options together later. This is no small job, I'm just finishing off the Maxis base networks now.
Now the tools do all the actual work for me, I export the files from the Reader as FSH files, bulk convert to PNG (I use PNG2FSH Mk II for this) and I have a system that does this so that all filenames are in the format 0x88888888.png so that the ID's are re-imported automatically (otherwise you've got to rename them manually). Once the textures are finished, I use PNG to FSH Batch to create a DAT file from the PNGs, which also handles MipMap and Alpha maps for me, then I have a DAT ready to go as an override.
As I understand if, Rivits program can work with the FSH files from the reader directly and handles the ID's/MipMaps also, it seems a nifty tool but once you commit to one way of working, change does not come easy.
As for releasing the dev files, there is no way to provide blanks like there would be for the sidewalk mod, my repository is basically a personal version of the NAM one. However, Maarten (thanks for k-point :)) released something similar which is very useful, I should be able to add a Euro version to the available options when it's complete.
I'm a little confused what exactly is happening here:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4462/37836904921_fb7e5272ee_o.jpg)
I know my replacement textures are showing, as the outer parts have been changed, but for some pieces I can't seem to get the transparency to show my sidewalk in the areas circled in red. I've checked the textures, created a new DAT from my textures and even loaded it with nothing but the NAM, same thing every time. I looked through the OWR-Roundabout plugin, I've covered every texture there too? These aren't puzzle-based so I don't understand what is replacing the inner roundabout parts and adding the maxis sidewalk back in (all textures have transparency). Can anyone help?
It seems to be a problem of rotation, because the north(?) texture is right.
Do you made all four rotation for the incriminated textures?
Possibly, you've installed the NAM plugin that hides OWR arrows from OWR roundabouts. It works by overlaying the road texture with an S3D that looks the same as the texture below. The S3D links to a different FSH file though as it needs to be colour corrected, so you need to replace this texture, too. The FSH on the S3D does not include any grassy bits, which is why your replacement is visible below.
This is a superb project. I can't tell you how pleased I am that your mods and tweaking have improved both the visual appearance of my cities and their realism.
This new project is a lot of work Robin and I wish you all the best with it! Looking forward to seeing the progress and of course the finished result.
Quote from: memo on February 14, 2015, 12:41:14 AM
Possibly, you've installed the NAM plugin that hides OWR arrows from OWR roundabouts. It works by overlaying the road texture with an S3D that looks the same as the texture below.
That explains the behavior I'm seeing here, I knew something must be overlaying it, I was digging through the T21s last night trying to track it down! Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction, already wasted much time here :(. Actually looking at the files, I can see some other places where my textures are being overlaid this way too...
This does present a small problem though, if the sidewalks are baked-into these items, changing the grass is no problem, but then it is sidewalk dependent, I may have to change my approach slightly for such pieces, for example keeping the inner white ring here of the OWR roundabout.
@Belfastsocrates: Thanks for your comments, I'm glad you are enjoying my work. I've not had a chance to update the SEN mod, but I'm literally 3 pieces away from complete NAM coverage in Sandstone now. Once I've got the initial files out of the way for the grass mod (hopefully this weekend), I need to update my repository to adjust to my new processes. Then I hope to finally add US support for the SEN down the line, but in the meantime I will update the SEN with all the new pieces I've been working on.
So after a few long nights, I have finally finished off and packaged up the initial Euro Release of what I'm now calling the Terrain Grass NAM Mod. Go and download it on the STEX (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/30159-mgb-terrain-grass-nam-euro-textures-version/), unless you don't want your cities looking like this that is (click for full size):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4501/37788470466_39aaca2197_o.jpg)
Berner Oberland Version
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4471/37126747704_0473258be3_o.jpg)
Sudden Valley Version
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/37788467676_8b5a00114e_o.jpg)
Appalachian Version
The US version is also complete, it might be a day or two but it will be uploaded shortly.
Next up, gotta bridge the gaps between my sidewalk mod and this and then hopefully a RHW version.
I would like to upload this to the LEX also, can I ask a few questions since I've never done this before?
Do I need to do anything special to be able to upload files?
Separated into 6 versions (EU, US then the three grass variants) these mods come to around 12MB-19MB zip files. In some breif testing, 7zip was able to best regular zip files and a 19MB file is then only 10MB. Can I upload a 7zip file, or is WinZip better to avoid angry downloaders who have to download a small open source tool to unpack them? Just trying to be responsible over potential bandwith/storage matters.
Congratulations on getting such a great project to the point of release :bnn: It's certainly welcome on the LEX as-is, though certification is a separate process normally requiring a LEX candidacy or membership in a team approved for LEX-certified uploading.
As for the RHW project you mention, converting the texture-based networks to model-based ones would seem a lot easier way to do it. I use it myself, thanks to Mandelsoft's help, but haven't been able to sell the NAM team on adopting that system yet. I'd be happy to share the knowledge and files I have if you think it might be a solution suitable for you :)
Looking forward to the US version!!! Please be soon lol
Congratulations indeed! I'm looking forward to giving this a go. Well done! :)
&apls Wow! That makes a huge difference and must have been a whole bucket load of work. Thank you so much, I recently started using the Gobias' Sudden Valley terrain mod (and loving it) and this will make it even better.
Quote from: noahclem on February 25, 2015, 03:57:26 PM
As for the RHW project you mention, converting the texture-based networks to model-based ones would seem a lot easier way to do it. I use it myself, thanks to Mandelsoft's help, but haven't been able to sell the NAM team on adopting that system yet. I'd be happy to share the knowledge and files I have if you think it might be a solution suitable for you :)
This would be new territory for me, but would that enable transparency for the RHW networks, that's totally what I'm after, I'll send you a PM :).
When it came down to it, Vortext's solution would probably give better results on the other networks, but the difference between the workloads was insurmountable. I'm currently working with a well known community member on a possible way to automate the whole process of sidewalk/grass changes, it may be that our discussions lead to a more permanent and wide-ranging solution which would enable that approach to be more manageable in the future however.
Quote from: swordstalker2008Looking forward to the US version!!! Please be soon lol
How about now, is that soon enough (
link (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/30162-mgb-terrain-grass-nam-us-textures-version/)) ;). Just need to get the final Single-Wealth variants done and I'll include them on the LEX at some point.
Thanks for all the comments, it's always nice to know your efforts are appriciated :thumbsup:
Yeah I figured it might be a bit more work and this is pretty awesome anyway! &apls
Also great to hear some kind of tool may be in the works, that'd be really sweet! :thumbsup:
btw nice pics as well, wouldn't mind seeing more of those! :)
Just another quick update: All of the unified-single wealth versions have been added tonight and can now be downloaded (same links as before).
There are a few early bugs I need to catch up with (no one's reported any), but I should be able to update everything for a Lex Release by the end of the forthcoming week.
@Vortext: As for the pictures, it's about time I made some updates for my CJ, but nothing is ever finished, I keep getting distracted by questions like "I wonder if I could have the grass I want there?", so building is somewhere last on the list of priorities. One day I'll feel satisfied enough to sit back and say I'm done with changing my game, now let's play it, but who knows when that will be, especially when I am tempted to make new things ;).
Small update, thanks to the processes outlined in my general development thread, I have today managed to automate those parts of the Terrain Grass mod I previously could not. What this means is that I can now make a complete variation of my TGN mod for any terrain with just one texture in less than 5 minutes. I'm working on a few updates/fixes still before I will release v2, but I would like to consider expanding from the three original terrain mods when I do.
Currently I have a custom Pyrenean Terrain version planned, but since I only use the three terrain mods I originally supported, any additional releases would be based on user feedback. I honestly have no clue which terrains are predominantly used, so if you want the terrain you use supported, please help me by telling me what you want. I know it's not so typical for creators to do requests, but in this case I can't release the tools for people to do it themselves, and the work of making 5-10 variants would be really small and something I'm happy to do. However, I've found it very hard to get feedback previously - actually it's near non-existent - so if no one responds, I'll just assume there is no demand for it and do something else. So if you are reading this and want your terrain supported, please take a minute to tell me about it.
In other news, certain developments have led me to the conclusion that the planned RHW support for TGN will simply not work with my current processes. Therefore, for the time being, work on that has halted until I can resolve some fundamental issues that just create too much wok for it to be viable. However, every other NAM texture (that I could find) with grass is covered, so it's not all bad.
Well, I could always ask for a multi-wealth LK Appalachian version. Not sure that's a fruitful path to go down, though. Still I'm putting it out there, but I'm not holding my breath.
How about doing this for the Maxis default terrain (since my understanding is that the default textures don't blend with the underlying terrain on purpose)?
Looking through the thread I didn't come across what other terrain mods you were planning but I hope it included at least Berner-Oberland. I do have a couple requests but they're not terrain mods ::)
The grass Erik made for wealth/grass:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrTlrkPD.png&hash=bce4a974d686f1edaa172a07b3ddc138cb2de32f)
I'd also like a snowy version. I think this texture from the Antarctic TM might be best:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaehX1Ta.png&hash=cf5334794c2f9852c6c233f8b89acbf6ab7eef19)
Though it's possible Peg's would work better depending on how uniform they should look and preference for blue vs purple:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiGKe7tK.png&hash=e266cbc4f1202dbbd175f29fd14af98c8dd4820e)
EDIT: I'd imagine desert textures for people making cities in the style of the American Southwest or the Middle East could be useful to some.
Quote from: APSMS on May 16, 2015, 12:52:22 AM
Well, I could always ask for a multi-wealth LK Appalachian version.
Within reason I'm happy to make custom one-off versions for people, multi-wealth can be easily applied to the bulk of the automation, but the new processes have some exceptions where only unified wealthing works (at least right now), if any new multi-wealth versions are made, there would be a few exceptions (namely roundabouts/obscure NWM textures).
I personally feel single-wealth works better, I could never rein in control of the various wealths/densities in my cities, uniform textures simply remove the issue for me. My main problem with doing multi-wealth however is making the grass textures, it's not really something I'm good at, I just don't have the artistic talent for these things as a technical person. The current mods are based on Lot Textures that came with SV/BO terrains, the Appalachian texture was made by Paeng and when I made a custom Pyreneasn version I simply re-scaled an existing terrain texture.
Therefore if someone had 1-3 grass textures and passed them along, I'd be more than happy to process it for you. If I have to make textures for a variant, then it would remain single-wealth.
QuoteHow about doing this for the Maxis default terrain (since my understanding is that the default textures don't blend with the underlying terr/8-ain on purpose)?
Not sure I have much motivation for this personally, my work has all been geared towards removing all default textures, but if there was some demand I would consider it.
--
I have no interest in download numbers, the point of this is really that having put a lot of effort into making such a transformational mod (for myself), I don't want to hoard it. I deliberately focused on automation from the outset, in case I ever decided to use a new terrain, all the work is done and it's two batch operations with no user input required to create a variant now. I don't care if I end up e-mailing custom versions to people, but I'm not going to pick 5 terrain mods at random and simply upload them in the hope they will be used. However, it would seem a waste to not allow others to take advantage of my efforts, by offering to make custom versions and trying to release some popular variants I'm just trying to squeeze the maximum benefit from my work.
@Noah, I've sent you a PM
Uniform textures I like ;) no ugly transitions. Also looking forward to the Pyrenean Terrain. I think desert/semi-desert (mediterranean?) and snow versions would be great. Maybe a non-HD version for people who can't use the hardware rendering?
Oh and by the way your efforts are greatly appreciated. I hope a lot of people are using your mods as they make such a huge difference graphically. I feel like i can't use the &apls icon enough when responding to your posts :thumbsup:
Following up from
this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1444.msg502837#msg502837) post on the NAM Issues Thread:
If you install both TGN and NGN, only one will work. Whichever loads last will show in game. In theory the files are interchangeable so you could use parts of each. However that won't work right now, because NGN has about 10 months work of updates and changes. Including a completely different file structure. When I finally release both TGN 2.0 and NGN they will be identical in terms of the mod's structure.
It's worth noting neither mod will replace any textures unless they have grass in them.
Quote from: Tyberius06 on December 29, 2015, 12:20:20 PM
First with the TGN (Sudden Valley - Eu) - something is wrong with the wealthificiation (is that an existing word?, sorry if wrote it incorrectly) with low and medium density, but it's OK with high density.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkepfeltoltes.hu%2Fthumb%2F151229%2FTGN_AVE_crossing_issue_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg&hash=36860987c8f95886c53713630edec8cf7c7c9790) (http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/151229/TGN_AVE_crossing_issue_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg)
Quote2nd picture with the NGN. It works fine only high density and only with the AVE-Road crossing.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkepfeltoltes.hu%2Fthumb%2F151229%2FNGN_AVE_crossing_issue_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg&hash=58616ed6a7abba5c8b1338b0fecb32be6d88862a) (http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/151229/NGN_AVE_crossing_issue_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg)
The Zebra crossings appear when you have the file "z3_MRTNRLN_EuroTextures_ZebraCrossings.dat" (located in z___NAM\Road Textures\Euro Cosmetic Re-Texture Mod), installed from the NAM. TGN was designed with the default crossings in mind. If you prefer the zebra crossings, I could post a patch to support them. Including more options for one texture is actually a big deal, so it's not going to happen for the release.
The second issue with the street/ave intersections is something that's been overlooked. I will fix the repository so the final version does not have this issue.
QuoteBy the way both are amazing mods (thanks for that), I hope one day you will release officially the NGN mod as well.
It shouldn't be too long, the fundamental work is done. I just need to get the NAM 34 changes into place beforehand. One of the problems with my mods, the scale of them is overwhelming for one guy. Therefore it's appreciated to get feedback, that way I can ensure problems are fixed. Otherwise I only deal with the things I find, it's not practical to test every possible texture myself.
Yes, I noticed, the NGN was working when both were installed.
I prefer the zebra crossings, that reminds me my origin country and hometown (Hungary, Budapest), so I would welcome that patch, what you mentioned.
Anyway if there is something in what I can help (testing or I don't know), just let me know.
Thank you!
I've uploaded the patch for the Zebras. This need to load after TGN or NGN to override the included defaults. The TGN variants support SV Unified grass. If you need something different, let me know.
Having checked through my repository I'm actually pretty sure the Ave/Street intersections were changed. This would only apply to NGN right now though, I know I did make changes to this. Problem is I'm using custom textures right now, so I need to look a bit deeper. In the meantime, perhaps check if any mods are loading after mine?
As for help, I don't have any specific need right now, but I'll keep it in mind. Feedback on any problems is helpful though, nothing is ever finished, because I update my repositories with each new NAM release. I plan to support all my mods in this way for the foreseeable future. I'm 99% there with a fully automated repository. Getting it together has been a mammoth task and as soon as that's finalised, most of my texture mods will get a refresh.
Update:
I've looked into the other problem today and tracked down the problem texture, second fix for NGN users only attached. Place the enclosed file into the "3 - Maxis Street" folder to ensure it works.
I've removed the fix, please update NGN to version 1.0.1 which include this fix and some others.
Nothing more than a few teaser shots.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4499/37805098152_a347ed4232_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4501/37788463406_d3f1371577_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4488/37805095922_f055cdb182_o.jpg)
Looks great! &apls
Maybe there should be some gaps in the median line at the intersections, because I reckon double solid lines are too much for most motorists to cross. Anyway, just what I thought when I saw them. :)
Quote from: Themistokles on March 01, 2016, 11:11:26 PM
Maybe there should be some gaps in the median line at the intersections
Good to know that my photoshopped intersection texture looks like the real thing :D.
I am inclined to agree with you regarding the double lines at crossings. However, this double line is baked in to the template texture that created the entire set. Not to mention, to support both Yellow and White lines, all my development files until this point include them. I'll have a go at trying to modify them, but it depends on how much time it would take really. :-\
I am using the TGN and it's a very neat feature! Thanks a lot for providing this!
Unfortunately, I got used to it and now I am annoyed by the brown (Maxis?) industrial wealth textures next to the rails. I've read in the TGN readme, that RRW is not supported? Is there any way to replace the industrial wealth textures next to RRW (and keep the new RRW incl. flextrack etc.)?
TGN supports RRW, meaning the crossings where grass is included will update to your installed TGN style.
But this "underlay" as I call it, is in essence the 4th sidewalk. It's not only used when zoning is next to rail, it's also used for zones next to farms. You can swap it for a different texture or even make it transparent (my preference), but you have to bear in mind it affects the farms also. Take a look at Rivit's RUM for RRW (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/29279-rum-for-rrw/), which includes some options for altering it's appearance.
It seems, you are not only a talented content creator, but an eager and kind aide in the forum, too!! Thanks a lot. The tip hits the bullseye.