Hey guys,
Welcome to the revolution!
The purpose of this project is to develop different draggable texture networks that will replace most modular networks. This also will lead to new ways to make transit enabled networks as well. This was a wackly concept that I have thought of one day when working on the 3RR Runway Project that me, David (Dedgren), and Fred (Freedo) are developing was an idea of creating draggable runways and taxiways. I then had the honor of meeting Alex in ST Chat and had brought up this concept. After talking a while Alex was very interested in the concept and developed the first prototype which is draggable water that also can be transit enabled. This concept opens up a new window of how modular pieces are developed. How this method works is by using the same concept as the GLR starter pieces where u plop the starter piece allowing you to drag the network. Instead of it being a road texture for example, you can use a runway or taxiway texture.
Instead of developing individial pieces that hog up the menu groups, there is now a possibility that they can now be draggable. Some potential networks:
Draggable Park Trails
Draggable Canals
Draggable Water which the prototype has been developed
Draggable Runways and Taxiways
Draggable Sea Walls
In order for this to be achieved, Knowledge in transit modding is a plus and also the ability to develop numerours RUL overrides for this to work properly. In the coming months I will be learning how to transit mod and implement these types of networks to existing sets. Alex will also be helping me with this project as I develop and progress as a transit modder. I am happy to bring this great concept to SC4D and expect great things in the coming months for this will be a long road ahead. Now for the pics of the first prototype:
Draggable Water:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg124.imageshack.us%2Fimg124%2F6881%2Fdraggablewater206052007bw5.jpg&hash=a2a9d6cda6c59cf6a03609e07b00bbc6761dd823)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg124.imageshack.us%2Fimg124%2F7103%2Fdraggablewater106052007qs5.jpg&hash=333aaa3b0cceddf61d99bebb89c74569d8ac5b29)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg76.imageshack.us%2Fimg76%2F4604%2Fdraggablewater306052007kv2.jpg&hash=182475a20b706a253203343a76dc4d957a0965b0)
As you can see the grid is still visible through the textures. With additional RUL overrides the gridding should be eliminated. Special thanks for Alex in developing the first prototype and I look forward in developing more prototypes with him in the months ahead.
wow genius idea, but how will you be able to set multiple textures?
Will you be forced to choose between draggable water and canals like we have with brick and dirt roads?
I wish you luck on this project!
slim: its quite easy itll be like how members from the NAM team develop draggable GLR as mentioned in my intro and thanks expect to see some magic in the coming months
Wow. Simply amazing. I cannot wait to see what you all come up with. And, of course, this announcement comes along just as I'm getting good at plopping sea walls...argh!
All hail the Transit Modding Gods!!!
Cheers,
Kevin
This is increadable. Great work. &apls
Oh awesome! DRAGGABLE SEAWALLS?! EVEN MORE AWESOME!!!1
OOOOH!!!! Incredible project... :thumbsup:
As you say it, it is the revolution. good luck!
Another great step. There are so many new concepts entering the game, one hardly has time to master one, when another great one emerges. Cudos, best of luck to you and the team. &apls
wow :o another excellent idea. It is amazing how much the members here have contributed to improving this game! My head hurts- too much new stuff to take in....
This is another excellent idea, and I just can see a brilliant future in front of it :thumbsup:
thanks for all the support and your great comments guys.. knowing that i am new to transit modding please be patient with these developments and that i look forward in sharing these creations with you guys :thumbsup:
Sweet! Can you TE it for ferries?
I could go for draggable farm fields as well....
These textures are probably pretty easy to do.... Not many RULs because there arent junctions.
Modding has moved fast in the last few weeks.... I am impressed.
flame, we are currently figuring out how to develop water automata for water traffic and for some future draggable networks there will be alot of RUL overrides such as the draggable runway and taxiway setup.... it really all depends how its decided to approach it.
Ryan
For pathing issues for "watertaxis", I know Goaskin was using the Subway paths. Maybe for this since Monorail is not used very often unless used in HSRP then Monorail paths can be used with a modification to the speed. This would lower the speed of the monorail network, but maybe it would be beneficial since we already have EL-Rail. This is just an idea.
This is a reminder for those of you who are thinking these will function like lots. These draggable textures cannot have properties like lots do. Meaning if it is a draggable park texture, it cannot have Mayor or Landmark Effects, it cannot reduce pollution or create demand. These do have the ability to be pathed and given som functionality in this way. But if you want effects like what I have stated it is not possible, or atleast not known how to do this (probably not possible).
could you use a dummy invisible automata tha thas a pollution effect that lowers pollution. such as for draggable parks....
And even if it overrides HSRP I wouldnt mind. HSRP is cool but.... there is like 3 stations.
Quote from: flame1396 on July 04, 2007, 08:58:37 AM
Sweet! Can you TE it for ferries?
Ferries are controlled by the EXE and cannot run on land-based networks, such as this draggable water. The routing of the ferries is controlled by the "tag" props that are on the ferry terminal lots and with the settings of the ferry terminal exemplar for the lots (ie is the lot a auto ferry terminal or a passenger ferry terminal). We can make automata that look like the ferries and have them running on the draggable water though.
Quote from: jplumbley on July 04, 2007, 09:47:34 AM
For pathing issues for "watertaxis", I know Goaskin was using the Subway paths. Maybe for this since Monorail is not used very often unless used in HSRP then Monorail paths can be used with a modification to the speed. This would lower the speed of the monorail network, but maybe it would be beneficial since we already have EL-Rail. This is just an idea.
If recall what I saw in those files that you speak of, Goaskin was using the elevated rail paths like the GLR does. The pieces are still up on the private NAM exchange and are set for Oppie's canals. It wouldn't be much work to make texture replacements for it or to add extra pieces that are cloned from the existing ones.
Creating automata for this draggable water shouldn't be too hard. We have all the water traffic models that Maxis provided, we just need to create new vehicle exemplars for the new "network(s)" and set them up properly to run on it.
I know that the NAM team seems to be over-using elevated rail network for pathing and automata purposes of new "networks", but it has the second fastest network speed in the game and seems to be hardly utilized in bigger cities where subways would be the norm.
QuoteThis is a reminder for those of you who are thinking these will function like lots. These draggable textures cannot have properties like lots do. Meaning if it is a draggable park texture, it cannot have Mayor or Landmark Effects, it cannot reduce pollution or create demand. These do have the ability to be pathed and given som functionality in this way. But if you want effects like what I have stated it is not possible, or atleast not known how to do this (probably not possible).
Actually, if they are puzzle pieces, we can attach the effects/pollution values/occupant groups/etc. via the exemplars for the pieces (like the pedmall tiles had the hoards of peds). Otherwise, we will have to develop an invisible prop that has all the effects and pollution values of a park and place it/them on the tiles via the Type 21 Exemplars (Network Lots).
Quote from: flame1396 on July 04, 2007, 12:00:19 PM
could you use a dummy invisible automata that has a pollution effect that lowers pollution. such as for draggable parks....
Invisible automata, no. Invisible props, yes. (see above block of text to Jason)
-Jan
Oh hey! So I was technically right! But wrong. I overcomplicated it.... Why make the prop into automata if it will work as jsut a prop. Its very clever. Once again... why do we need SCS?
Ryan, I have to hand it to you. :thumbsup: This is a fantastic idea, and I'm glad to have been able to assist in the prototype. Viva la Revolucion! :D
And Jan, I don't think we really have much to worry about with overusing the El-Rail. From what I can tell, there's still plenty of options for creating the "false intersections" for each network. There appears to be hundreds of possibilities of puzzle drag overrides for each network from what I've seen. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Cool!
Just curious, I dont know anything about pathing, is there is a difference between buses and cars, or is pathing just for road vehicles in particular? What im asking is if it would be possible to make a draggable Busway or maybe mod the monorail and have a new network that would be streetcars separate from GLR
Cool project. Would be great, if you'd use the water Cal "developed".
Quote from: callagrafx on June 30, 2007, 01:55:54 AM
Diffuse colour: R:37 G:49 B:49
Bump map: Noise
Everything default except:
Size: 1.5
Levels: 3
Phase: 3.6
Then set the bump map level (the number to the side, defaulting to 30) to 10
The reflection is set to Raytrace at a map level of 30
from the ashes: for now well be applying this to existing textures so if calla has a water texture then most likely we can implement it. as i said before this will be a long journey implementing this type of technology on textures since the we at the NAM team are working on numerours projects atm so as i always say -stay tuned- :)
The water texture is not a bitmap but a bump map...not sure how it would render from the top elevation but I can try and supply as a bitmap for making into a game base texture if you guys want it. This is a very interesting development, nice one :thumbsup:
Quote from: Zaphod on July 05, 2007, 12:25:59 PM
Cool!
Just curious, I dont know anything about pathing, is there is a difference between buses and cars, or is pathing just for road vehicles in particular? What im asking is if it would be possible to make a draggable Busway or maybe mod the monorail and have a new network that would be streetcars separate from GLR
The car paths on the various roadway networks are for all road traffic: cars, buses, freight trucks, and emergency vehicles. Any custom automata that is based off a road vehicle will also follow the car paths on the networks.
A draggable busway is possible, but you would need transit-enabled lots to act as a "filter" to limit the traffic that tries to access the busway. Someone was once working on such a mod, but it involved puzzle pieces instead. It was abandoned at ST, in the Transit Modding section. So texture- and path-wise, it could be done, but you would need some customized transit-enabled lots to filter out everything else but buses and pedestrians.
-Jan
Well, that's brilliant news, Swamper! I've been dying for draggable dedicated busways (even though we have to filter out traffic) - at least we can differentiate between ordinary roads and dedicated busways. :P
SA actually me and alex have been talking about how to develop the bus lanes on top of other concepts we talked about all u would need is a special controller puzzle piece as jan had mentioned
Ryan this is simply stunning work here wow... I love it... i wish i knew how to mod somewhat more then what i can do far as a lotter... and that is basic still
Quote from: Filasimo on July 07, 2007, 04:10:43 PM
SA actually me and alex have been talking about how to develop the bus lanes on top of other concepts we talked about all u would need is a special controller puzzle piece as jan had mentioned
You can't set a puzzle piece to specify what types of traffic are allowed on it. All the road traffic (Car, Bus, Freight Truck) use the same path type (Car), so transit-enabled lots will be needed for the busway project. You cannot create a puzzle piece to "filter" the traffic.
-Jan
i see jan well we were talking about some kind of piece kinda like how someone made that hov bus lane lot a while back but ill have to ask him how we had it planned
It's actually quite easy to filter traffic on a TE lot, using the SC4Tool. There are a number of settings in one of the tabs - anything relating to cars (in/out, etc) should be deleted, with entries for buses and pedestrians.
It's also a good idea to limit the TE lot to through traffic only, otherwise you'll have cars 'jumping' to the busway, likewise with buses.
Quote from: Filasimo on July 08, 2007, 09:38:11 PM
i see jan well we were talking about some kind of piece kinda like how someone made that hov bus lane lot a while back but ill have to ask him how we had it planned
I'm sorry I kept debating you. When you say "piece", the first thing that jumps to my mind is a "puzzle piece". If by "piece", you are referring to a transit-enabled lot, then my apologies for misunderstanding you.
-Jan
its ok jan im still all new to this i may have the innovativeness of what im aiming for but when it comes to technical transit modding terms its almost like alien language to me :-[
Its all good Ryan by the time you finish this project you would have grown by leaps and bounds...
Totally awesome. &apls
But, do you think you could smooth out the edge pieces to a beach like texture. The abrupt ending is very ugly. %wrd
um hcoline: be aware that this is only the prototype and not the final version please check back for further updates. thanks
Hmm... how about draggable runways with plane automata? ;)
Edit: already mentioned :-[
With the ability to drag different street textures? I am kind of interested in the idea. Are bridges draggable?
-Charlie
moshi-san i already answered ur comment per msn
sir charles ur probly confused with my project and the SAM......bridges are developed and discussed in the bridge engineers needed thread. hope that helps with what ur asking. thanks for stopping by!
Not to sound cocky or something, but I was just wondering. I read my old comment, I wasn't very clear in what I said, actually I am not sure what I meant... lol I am not even old and I don't know. lol No offense to any elderly lurking here. Man as I read it it makes less and less sense... I need to see a Dr. Anyways. I think what I was trying to get at was two questions, with the plop and drag method are bridges possible, and kind of an already answered question would a person be able to create different street textures, and have them work, like a different plop for each mod... I guess I was kind of having an adolescent senior moment. If I keep this up I'll have Alzheimer's when I'm 20. I am interested in this concept, and would kind of like to know how to put the plop and drag pieces together. I would kind of like to get involved.
-Charlie
hehe sir charles again u really must be confused :-[ with how we have it designed with the draggable technology it is possible (someone correct me on this) and with your second question u should read jplumbeys street addon mod thread. hope this helps and ya get checked on soon! hehe if you would like to help pm me what u can do and we can talk in private.....laters!
Quote from: Sir Charles of Dunlap on July 18, 2007, 09:02:35 PM
and kind of an already answered question would a person be able to create different street textures, and have them work, like a different plop for each mod...
Street Addon Mod - SAM (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1617.msg52367#new)
Charles, I think you will be pleasentally surprised when you read this thread. You can add more than streets :P
Yeah... I think I am going to give up before I get myself in to much trouble... lol I think I get what you're saying now, you're saying that your more into just using this as a way to drag textures rather than new transit networks, right? That's where I am going wrong. Well I think I am wasting your time, and my own. So like I said, I will just stop being stupid, and before I post again, I will think it through throughly... Oh I see someone else posted, yeah I checked it out, and that's now why I understand what's been said.
-Charlie
Is this project dead???, If it is, I'm sorry for bumping it, but I really hope it isn't, and also, can the sloping of these textures be altered without altering the sloping of other streets?? That would be ace, as you could create a "canal stream kit" that only laid on perfectly straight places, and you could also make wall textures that, to be directional, could drag off a road at the top.
Thankyou
Joe
As stated in the other NAM development threads , TLA,RHW,SAM,NWM etc there are numerous transit projects slated and very little modding staff. Be aware that we also have RL as our main priortities and that updates will be posted when time is available. Thank you and make sure to watch the development threads for updates.
Just hoping that you were still around, I think ^-^
On that question, is it possible to make the arbitrary pulls include crossings and intersections with other textures and networks? It'd be neat if it were possible to bind up more of the puzzle pieces into pulls.
I wish I could help, don't have the PC version, tho...
-Crissa
What I'd want with this?
Fences. Sound barrier walls. Hedges. Jeronij's trees. Cycledogg's trees. Since 'roads' can be assigned random props to proc on them when they're generated, it'd be perfect for fences and strips of trees to seperate farms and such.
...Which leads me to wonder if it's possible to define crossings; if it is, then one easy test would be to just turn things like the Ped. overpass or ped mall into draggable, since all the parts are right there already. And if that's true, we could put in things like gates and cattleguards to the above, which would increase the usability.
I know, no help so far. We'll see.
-Crissa
Interesting concepts Crissa. and yes you should be able to dictate intersections and possibly add the props.
Sure its possible. If you think about it SAM is the BETA test for this and all other draggable additions to the game. Draggable GLR was the Alpha Test.
Eventually, some of this stuff will be added. But noone can say when, there are far too many requests and far too few transit modders that can pull this stuff off.
as quoted by crissa: if it is, then one easy test would be to just turn things like the Ped. overpass or ped mall into draggable, since all the parts are right there already.
stay tuned you may be getting warmer thats on a long list of the things to do list
You know what else would be a great use for draggable texture?
A simpler version of simoncre's hole-diggers. You could have a hole and raise for each height, and then a draggable that was either on or two (or even three or four, if possible) wide (depending) with varied slope requirement, like GLR is different slope from street, etc.
Basically a 'roadbed' tool ^-^
At least, I'd find it useful. Less things in my menus, more capability.
-Crissa
As far as I know hole digging and raiseing can only be done with 1x1 (or 1x2 for avenue and highway) lots.
I would think it would depend on the draggable tools, and if you can make something that's draggable wider than 1x2. My assumption would be that it would merely require the pieces to do so, but one never knows until they try.
But having an arbitrary draggable texture should mean you can choose a slope restriction (each draggable should be able to be defined with its own), and then use it with the digging tiles.
Admittedly, it might seem silly when roads, rail already have their own definition, but sometimes it is useful to mix and match. And having one set of digging tiles which activated with the one set of draggables would make it simpler to use.
But this is blue-sky dreaming, here.
-Crissa
Ooooh funky! :thumbsup: dragable water! &apls &apls Looking amazing!
You can create your own hole-digging lots. Smoncrie made this possible because he edited rep number 6 or 7 in the TE exemplar.
I believe a draggable version of the ped-mall was made, but it somehow hasn't seen the light of day.
I dug this info by smoncrie up from a topic on ST.
Smoncrie:
"Yes, that is how they work. The lot must be transit enabled, and the height of the lot's building must be changed.
The property that specifies the position of the lot's building is the LotConfigLotObject in the lot exemplar that has 0 as its first rep. The fifth rep of this property specifies the height.
All the coordinates in a LotConfigLotObject property are integers that are 10000 (HEX) or 65536 (Dec) times the actual coordinate value. (e.g. 7.5 is stored as 78000 (HEX))
To get negative values you can use a HEX calculator, such as the windows desktop calculator, or you can subtract the value from 100000000 (HEX). (e.g. 100000000 – 1 is FFFFFFFF; the value that represents -1)
I believe that I published how the Hole Digging Lots work in the NAM thread, where I pointed out how it could be used to make slopped ground to elevated puzzle pieces feasible. Later, when I learned how to make puzzle pieces, I created those puzzle pieces and called them "OnSlope" puzzle pieces."
Source (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=63875&highlight_key=y)
edit: illustration
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv75%2FNicolaiS%2FSC4%2Fjsgroundlifterexemplar6up.jpg&hash=c1f78ca0a1bd756b39714953f46432ee97dfc0dc)
Ah, thanks. I thought it was number 6, not number 5. But I was close anyway :P
im confused not on the project but why it is down here not up with tla sam rhw and others?
oh im also confused on this, how will oyu make bridges for this? if oyu eplace the texxture you would have to make a texture for 1 tile 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ect. or is there a easier way to do this
this is as good as sam!
It's down here most likely because it's purely experimental. As for making bridges, it's really only feasible for canals, so, I don't think it'll really be used.
Ooooo this is going to be good hehehe. &apls
@ ssc4k: not all projects are pushpinned ya know...development should start once i have time to experiment with it
It'd make cute canals like are in Eastern US and England - and those do have bridges and tiny ships ^-^ Or Disneyland.
Be alot of work, tho.
-Crissa