I downloaded various GLR stations and depots, some of which are fully functional.
However the stations that do not allow trams to pass through show the drive paths as being at right angles to the tracks.
I have been unable to alter the drive paths by dragging thro' the stations using EL method.
I have not seen any forum posts re this problem.
Can anyone help, please.
Screenshot of drive paths, showing at right angles to tracks.
This is a specific problem with some GLR variants of Ill Tonkso's stations. The paths are wrongly rotated, which is not so easy to fix unless you know what you are doing with SC4 Tools and the Advanced TE settings.
I'll see if I can dig out some fixed lot files for you and attach them later.
Much obliged. I could have a go at fixing it but I am not that knowledgeable.
What's the worst that could happen? :'(
Editing the paths of a lot, all you can break is the pathing, which is already broken. Really nothing to fear in trying to fix it here.
SC4 Tools always creates a duplicate of any files you save and renames the extension .sav. If you modify something and it goes wrong, you just need to rename this back to the original format (I believe in this case SC4Lot) to recover. Don't forget the second time you save a file it will overwrite the first backup though. A handy feature, but a good idea to keep a backup to one side until you're sure the new one is working.
From the TE Editor in SC4 Tool, right click one of the transit enabled tiles (should use a H) and select "Edit Reps (Expert)". On this screen is a compass with four tickboxes representing the rotation of the path. You just need to tick the box to rotate the paths 90 Deg from where they started out. It shouldn't make a difference which way you reorient them (90 left/right) as the paths are straight and symmetrical for this.
Here goes - first ever go at using SC4tool, apart from the dependency checker.
Better read the tutorial first!
Wish me look! - and thanks a lot ( lot - gettit!). &mmm
No success I'm afraid.
I analysed a station which works (RFY Bus 2 Tram Switch) the logic of which I can follow. However the one thing I did notice about the SNR Suburban Station was that the REP 16 box is empty whereas the REP 16 box has 0xF7340A50.
As to what to do with the transit switch page - not a clue.
Is there somewhere on the vast internet that contains info. on paths, ID's, etc for SC4. I have searched and searched the internet, incl. Simtropolis and SC4 Devotion, for some definitive guide or tutorial as I am very interested in how all this stuff works?
I will analyse other tram stations to see if I can come up with a trend to give me a solution.
Of course, if you or some other SC4ofile can give me the fix I would be so grateful :thumbsup:.
Tried to fix another GLR station, Cosham GLR Station, and succeeded in getting the correct pathing through the station ;D and the station is fully functional for passenger and tram usage. I can see trams spawning in the station and travelling through the station but the problem now is the trams jump when they try to enter the station.
Shmails GLR stations suffered from this jump and he provided a fix which works. A comment on another thread stated that the REP 16 value had to be entered to fix the path. Can anyone tell me what the REP 16 entry should be?
Thanks in advance. I attach a screenshot.
Screenshot attached.
If I explain what is happening here, I think it might be helpful.
When you TE a lot and want to have standard path through the station, it's only necessary to TE it with the correct transit type. So here the El-Rail paths will be sufficient to work because GLR is an override for the El-Rail network. The reason why the trams jump though is because the GLR network is at ground level instead of 15m high. Whenever you want a station to work for either an override network or with paths other than simple diag/straight you must use a custom path. In this case the standard straight GLR path already exists for the NAM, so you can simply re-use that one rather than make new ones. I'm not at home so don't have the ability to check the exact ID right now, but look at the NAM GLR station, specifically the straight one as you'll need the same path as that.
However, what can happen is that the path was created say from West to East or North to South. So if your lot is rotated differently, you might need to rotate the paths as I mentioned before. I'll try to compile a set of more complete instructions for you later. There is not a huge amount of information on the more advanced TE inner workings. I recall one of the few I found was by Coego, it might take me a while to dig that one out again however.
Thanks for the response. I understand the reason for the jump and will follow up the Cogeo lead.
It seems strange that info. is not available re TE workings or is this not in the public realm?
I will check out the NAM GLR tram to get the path ID.
I have checked out 11 of the NYBT GLR stations and only one is functional. I'm surprised there has not been more queries on forums re this issue. Maybe the users have the knowledge to fix issues without resorting to using forums.
You have been a great help - keep up the good work :thumbsup:.
Oh no, it's all public, some specific NAM development is private, but generally everything you might want to know about everything exists somewhere. The problem here is simply finding the thread. I'm dog sitting at a friends place and have nothing better to do, so I've spent two hours trying to find it - with no sucess.
There is some information that may help you here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=539.40 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=539.40).
I've often thought that this is an area where a new tutorial would be of benifit. Tying everything you might need to know together in one place, perhaps I'll get round to that sometime. Meanwhile I will try my best to help out with any problems you might run into.
Thanks a lot.
Tried the REP 16 from a working GLR station but without success.
I'll read the thread you posted.
A bit worrying that a person with your intimate knowledge finds it difficult to access info. What hope have I? &mmm
The problem is simply that there is around 12 years of archives for SC4 spread over the internet. The lesson here is that I should have bookmarked the thread &ops. I know the thread exists, just not where it exists :(.
OK, back at home I can give you a better idea of this hopefully.
So here is the default Ortho GLR station from the NAM loaded in SC4 Tools:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi991.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf39%2FMGB204%2FTE-GLR-TE1_zps5ub6ggze.jpg%7Eoriginal&hash=f424442a9da05206270bef9a7cdba33461f83007)
The path ID is contained in Rep 16, in this case 0xAF1DACA0 (Red). Essentially this is the same as the GLR Straight piece from the NAM. Whilst paths aren't required for standard game networks/pathing, provided you keep to existing pieces, a path you can re-use should already exist. You asked before about finding these IDs, honestly the quickest way is to compare similar lots. By and large there is no great listing of all the IDs anywhere. The lot itself runs from West to East, so does the path file, therefore the compass (Blue) is at it's default North Setting. Now let's look at the GLR Terminus Lot:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi991.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf39%2FMGB204%2FGLR-TE2_zpsfuf2z5cq.jpg%7Eoriginal&hash=fd6d68d12ac7131b526063c2710e8b01056d1c60)
The key difference here is that the lot runs from North to South. But the path runs West to East. This is why they show the paths incorrectly. The fix is quite simple though, find the tile with the path and edit it to either the W or E rotations. This compass sets the rotation of the path NESW, so east or west will be 90 degrees from N. Because a straight path is symmetrical, it doesn't matter which here, but for non-symmetrical paths you'd have to use the correct rotation. Having simply checked E here for each and every transit tile, you should end up with working paths. I've attached this lot to post for you to have a look at/use.
A couple other things to note about TEing. Many lots do not have the correct transit switch values. Please refer to this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12522.0) thread for a guide, you will almost certainly want to update any lots you edit with a new Transit Switch Entry Cost based on the values there. In addition, it doesn't hurt to increase the stations capacity either. If you read the thread you'll see every now and again the capacities rise, so play it safe and use a high number is what I would do.
I tried that REP value and it made no difference.
I got the value from looking through some (many) threads on the forum.
I understand completely what you have written.
I have seen many different values for the REP value for other stations, most ( 10 that I have looked at) have the standard EL one others have eg. RFY Bus to Tram - F7340A50, Cogeo's GLR has - X580CC700, and Shmails 3 stations all had different reps.
Shmail issued a fix for his stations as the trams jumped, 3 different values again, but having replaced the original lots, the trams still jump when they arrive at the station. So the fixes don't appear to work.
Check the folder where the lots are and clear out any of the .sav backups made by SC4 Tools automatically. If one of these is loading after the lot files then the old settings would be overriding your changes.
Otherwise, if you attach/upload the lots I can take a look at them for you and see if there is anything wrong with the settings.
Will do - and thanks a lot.
Nice to have the site back again!
I have now analysed the functionality of 20 stations/stops and examined the pathing in sc4 tool.
There seems to be no rationale to the REP 16 entry. I get the
I have checked that the direction of travel is the same as the compass entry and REP 15 entry but have no solution.
A few examples:
RFY Bus 2 Tram Switch - tile set E/W; REP15 E/W; REP 16 0xF7340A50; - functional;
Petrouch City Tram Station - tile set E/W; REP15 E/W; REP 16 0xFFFFFFFA; - functional; no entry/exit arrow in end tiles;
NOB GLR Station - tile set E/W; REP15 E/W; REP16 0xAF1DACA0 - standard entry for EL; - functional; no entry/exit arrow in end tiles;
Moor Valley Station GLR, JONO01 GLR Station, Light rail small yellow station, SFBT S-Bahn, - all functional with EL REP16;
MEBSP and Connexxion stations - REP16 blank - both functional;
COGEO semi-transparent GLR stop (tile set E/W, REP15 N/S; REP16 0x580CC700; REP3 rotated clockwise)
Then we have Shmails 3 stations all of which have different REP16 entries.
The stations that do not function are the Brennt series, SNR series and Cosham - the ITS set, I think. The common theme is that they are all based on stations modelled originally as Rail, not GLR. Could there be some hangover from the Rail versions which affects the functionality of the stations as GLR?
This does not explain the Variety of REP16 entries for functioning stations or stops.
I fear if fiddling with the REP entries and tile set orientations within SC4 tool does not fix the functionality the forming of a custom path is way beyond my knowledge of path files.
Do I just admit defeat? ()sad()
I think you may have misunderstood. Above are two example images. The first is the settings to use for stations with tracks running West to East on the lot. The second should be used if the paths run North to South on the lot.
As for the Rep16, that simply a name for the ID of the path file to use for this tile. The one I gave you is fine for standard straight GLR. Indeed it's possible to use a number of other paths, so they might be different, but that's the one I'd use. If you just used the standard EL-Paths then you are going to get UDI jumping, since El Rail paths are at 15 or 15.5m in height.
I've attached the 10 ITS re-lotted GLR stations with fixed paths, TSEC and capacities to this post. If you follow what I've done for the remainder, you shouldn't run into any problems.
Extremely grateful for the time and trouble you have gone to. Really!
1st error (don't laugh!) was not deleting the existing lot after I had made the changes. I assumed the game would use the new sc4lot info but obviously I was mistaken.
Second point - I made the assumption that changing the Rep15 entry from N/S TO E/W was the same as changing the compass setting thro' 90 degrees. Was I wrong in that assumption? Is the Rep15 fixed and can't be changed?
I have tried Cosham and it works perfectly.
I actually loaded the original Cosham Rail Station in SC4 Tool and configured it for GLR, which then worked. I couldn't understand why your original fix hadn't worked - see 1st error above!
I am still at a loss to understand the use of non-standard Rep16 entries such as 0xFFFFFFFA.
I have searched both SC$Devotion and Simtropolis and read many posts and topics. Their content seems to be split between the very simple and explanations which require a distinct level of understanding of coding, etc.
I wonder what would give me the knowledge to understand far more of the mechanics of the game but am at a loss as to go about this. Do I invest in some books on "coding for dummies"?
I like to know how stuff works rather than just use it - its just how I'm made, I guess.
Anyway - my unbounded gratitude. :thumbsup:
SC4 loads everything in the correct file format that's in your plugin folders, note that's not anything to do with file types. So .sav files also get loaded on startup. Should two or more items have the same ID, the last of them to load (alphabetically from file name) will be the one you see in game. This is very handy for many situations, it's very easy to override anything such as props, lots or textures by just using the same ID as the original and loading an alternative later.
I'm not sure why myself, but for some reason it's necessary to set the Entry/Exits (Rep 15) West-East to align with the path, then rotating the path 90 degrees works a charm with Rep 3. When you refer to non-standard Rep16 entries, simply think of them as different. Within the NAM will be more than one ortho GLR path for example, each with a unique ID. For whatever reason the modders used the ones they did, only they could say. Bear in mind the NAM may not have been the same in 2006/7 when some of these lots were made. Perhaps the NAM path simply didn't exist then, for a good while no lots were ever included with the NAM for example.
Usually a search will be more helpful, although info is a little barren for advanced TEing. As for helping out, I've been going through this process myself fairly recently, I know figuring some of this out on my own was a real uphill battle. That post from Coego (I'm sure it was from him) is about the only one I've seen that explains this, if only I could remember where the hell it was again! In any case I'm happy if I was at least able to impart some knowledge here.
There is no real coding required for the most part. A lot of this really isn't something that's found in books, it's unique to SC4, making this forum and Simtropolis your best place to unravel it all. If there is something you want to do with the game, but cannot find the answer, just ask, usually someone will be able to help, if only pointing you in the right direction. Otherwise your best bet is just to absorb as much of the information on the forums as possible.
I always found these two topics to be quite helpful when it came to TEing something
Transit enabled lots - the easy way - http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=539.0
TE Lots, Transit Switches, and You - http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2763.0
Thanks for that, Catty.
I shall follow them up.
Cheers!
Hi Guys ;D
I have been following the thread and thought id pop in..
Adams,
It is great to see you interested in transit station modding :thumbsup:
MGB,
I really appreciate the personalized help your giving Adams. Very thoughtful of you..
Not sure if you ran across the GLR station line that I modded for DCmetro34 who now goes by the nick of Nilo
I recall having to do this rep 16 custom path thing on at least one occasion. But no doubt our station line is not precise when it comes to automa behavior in, through and around our stations. It seems like so long ago now that I have forgotten much of it.
I think a lot of times the priority was placed of getting the stations functional in so far as no obvious issues where present with network functionality. And its fair to say the automa paths were unfortunately always given only secondary emphasis . However, i will keep monitoring this thread and of course if i feel i can be of help in some way to add to what MGB is doing here, i will be happy to oblige ;)
Brian
:thumbsup: Thanks for that.
I haven't come across that thread you referred to, but I'm keeping looking - amazing what you come across by chance.
I know what I am diving into is historical in terms of gaming, but when you get the SC4 itch, you just gotta scratch it!
I just love learning new and problem solving.
Onwards!
Thanks Adam,
We did not really have much in the way of a Modding thread. I know that DC has opened up batting threads from time to time for his stations though .
Here is a link to one of his better transit batting threads-
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11439.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11439.0)
The first post has a listing of the stations he completed and which I did the transit modding for the majority of.. You will see that most of these were various GLR stations we did together.
Brian
b22rian: Thanks for that info.
Lots to read up on now, but any other info or tutorial guides most welcome.
Adams,
Yes, In terms of looking for help, info and tutorials, the type of customized paths your interested in, which I would terms as "advanced transit modding.." ,
I would have to agree with MGB, that there never was a lot out there among the forum postings. My recall was that when I needed some custom paths , I had to sorta scrap up odds, and ends to slowly acquire any knowledge in the area, that assisted me in doing the station modding for DC's stations.. It is unfortunate, but does seem like its one of our weaker areas for new people like you wanting to get involved in this. Unless there is some possibility, that some helpful things have popped up in the community forums since I was interested in the area. Admittedly, this was a least a couple years now in the past.
But I hope you will not become discouraged by my comments. Please stay with this :thumbsup:
And i think if we can work with this as a 3- way team , in which it is my hope that this will still prove to be worth your efforts..
Look forward to hearing more about this or really any other transit modding areas you have an interest in or questions about..
Lets keep this thread alive okay ? ;D
Thanks, Brian