SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Fair folks!
And so I've decided to branch out!

My love for Asian urbanity hasn't diminished, but I recognize the fact that world is much larger and it would be foolish to ignore it wonders.

I present my non-asian BATs to your judgment:

1st. So called "red" house (labeled this way by Krio, and I like it):

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg478.imageshack.us%2Fimg478%2F2821%2Fnew1go8.jpg&hash=cb7f7f49d8948541a427d894574283d20da8dcbc)

this is almost ready, just some minor detailing left (few pieces of roof junk) and night lighting. In addition I'll try to give it slightly less monotone finish...
It may come in a variety of colors. Here some possibilities:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg460.imageshack.us%2Fimg460%2F6530%2Fbluecx3.jpg&hash=38923f8a4cceb679f7048addd9a06a36e7f8efcf)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg460.imageshack.us%2Fimg460%2F2396%2Fgreensj5.jpg&hash=4922b3cfafe19e0919810b2a173f2451468340e9)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg361.imageshack.us%2Fimg361%2F5562%2Fyellowig4.jpg&hash=916af6c636fef1ec46927ef5921175fd6cbcc928)

What do you think of those, any other colors to suggest??

And I've started a new one... this is quite an ambitious project for me. I do it in technique very different that I've been routinely using till now.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg356.imageshack.us%2Fimg356%2F4364%2Fcam1evecc2jx2.jpg&hash=bafae148bfde2610f78005de3da1ec9ccfa9270a)

As always, comments, suggestions are welcome.

Loving the Red House and other colours. Maybe you should name them as Moscow Towers? Weren't those from Moscow?

And Stalinist Skyscraper is looking, really looking forward to it  :thumbsup:

The towers are great. You could try to use a darker red (vine red) as I know one building from my hometown which looks a bit like this and it is white with vine red elements.
PS: Second looks fantastic as well.

These are again lovely models  :thumbsup:

Since you ask, I'd suggest to use a bit more darker textures for all the colours, except for the yellow perhaps.

This last Russian building is really exceptional  ???  . I would keep the model this way. Without the RL Dome  ;D . Btw, I am still really interested in knowing how you create such a geometry wiht low poly numbers  :-\  ....  ;D

I find the tower blocks excellent as it reflects a direction a lot British Towns and Cities are taking for inner city residential development. An example is the Key Worker (Teachers, Nurses, Police Officers) Apartments in Basingstoke. As you can see they are in fact quite yellow, there is a similar building opposite that is a kind of Peach colour.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Fff%2FUk-basingstoke.jpg%2F800px-Uk-basingstoke.jpg&hash=3863ea770f8dfc6e73c01bf77be96b7efb0b9501)

Jeronij:
Oh yes... sorry I've forgotten (with trip and all, btw Spain was stunning, as always. Madrid really blows your mind away!!!)
I'll try to put some sort of tutorial as soon as possible.
Incidentelly I never really said low poly... When you work with MAX polygon count isn't really something to be concerned with. It of course affects the render speed but the number itself has VERY minor influence. What I meant was low object count. For instance you can have 1000 objects  100 polygons each, or 100 objects 1000 polygons each. Total number will be in both case (well that is very obvious) 100 000. But in terms of Viewport performance the second situation (100 objects of 1000 polygons each) is MUCH more preferable.
Another important point is to avoid coplanar surfaces - situation where two polygons lay in a same plane.And last one: when modeling with MAX (unless you do something very organic) don't do it by eye... Use snaps. That will guarantee much tidier scene, which would be easier edit, find problem spots and prevent all sort of weirdness during the render.

le_harv:
I'm afraid you're confusing the two... Stallinist thins is that large Building with columns on top.
Judging from the picture you've supplied I guess you were talking of the "red" tower. That one is brand new, just has been finished last spring.

Thanks, you got what I meant  ;)

And I am glad you liked Madrid, but didnt you go to Barcelona  :D ?

Of course I did! And I did spend most time there in Barcelona, just had short detour to Madrid. :thumbsup:

barcelona and madrid are great cities to visit, glad you enjoyed your trip :)

the towers look great, aswell as the Ukraine Hotel [?is that it's name]

looking forward to more progress :thumbsup:

Simfox wow and more wow the non asian stuff is as great as asian.... I love the multi color option and the start to the new building..... Hmmmm for more colours what about purple, orange and a little off the wall i wonder what black would look like - pat

First time I see something like this Stalinist tower being batted, will be a very unique building when you finish it.

iamgoingtoeatyou:
Yep they are fab!! You also right on the hotel Ukraina! How, may I ask you do you know that much of the Stalinist architecture! You know I've posted the pic of it (well slightly less developed) on some russian forum and it took people there some time to recognize it!

patthefghtr:
Yep, colors would be easy. I will make a blend material for the tower. where "panneling" would be a separate layer from the basic defuse color. so substtituting one will me just a matter of couple of clicks and the export. And that one is qite speedy too! I've just installed QuadCore CPU, and speed has doubled as compared to dual core at the same stpeed! Rare case in computer industry when 2x means exactly 2x and not 10%!

kwakelaar:
Ha ha, yeah... I've been eying those form the start... but the complexity and the amount of decor were scarring me of... but then I decided I could stay scared of big bad Stalin rest of my life! i have to face my fears! :-) ?$%kar&%h
A little progress:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg370.imageshack.us%2Fimg370%2F3651%2Fcam15jq5.jpg&hash=e49a7b475314c3f31716ec5f5d69dddb6fc63281) (http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3651/cam15jq5.jpg)

and, of course, all important Zoom5 view:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F7366%2Fsouthstage5z5vo3.jpg&hash=3ef8bd51f96a97e2e110b81642146a7d30150a46) (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7366/southstage5z5vo3.jpg)

Picture widths scaled down to 1024 /RJ

Could I ask in future posts that you restrict the image width to a maximum of 1024 pixels as the large images cause horizontal scrolling and extra system resources when rendering the page...We've deliberately not insisted on a maximum size as most people have kept within the page dimensions so you aren't breaking any rules, only aesthetic ones  :D :thumbsup:

That said, the model is exquisite...can't wait for it to get it's clothes on  :thumbsup:

This is too much SimFox, if EA and Maxis see this, they will cry and commit suicide  ;D This is propably one of the best models I've seen, looking forward the texturing.  :thumbsup:

Wonderful looking towers! And the other building is also looking great! :thumbsup:

That looks massively amazing!  :thumbsup:

It looks like a plastic scale model  ;)  ... it seems you could touch it  ::)

Impressive perspective  :thumbsup:

QuoteCould I ask in future posts that you restrict the image width to a maximum of 1024 pixels as the large images cause horizontal scrolling and extra system resources when rendering the page...

Never had a problem with horizontal scrolling... but then again, I'm using a screen res of 1680x1050. :P

Quoteif EA and Maxis see this, they will cry and commit suicide

Hopefully. :P Selling us, the SC community, out just to make a few bucks *shakes fist at EA* :P

Anyways, SimFox, that's a beautiful building. I look forward to seeing it when it's textured. It'd be interesting if you got one of them 3D printers and printed that building out as an actual model. :P

Thank you, guys!

Callagrafx:
I didn't know that there was a limit on pictures here... Well I try to think of it. But can not promise 100% that I'll ALWAYS obey by it.

Boy Formerly known as Krio:
Wouldn't be too sure of that! They are out to make some $! And not just something beautiful. As long as cash will be rolling in they will be quite happy!

Jeronij:
He hehe
First I saw "plastic" and got a bit upset... but when read all message changed my mind...
So, what do you think about top now ( see picture below)

Shadow Assasin:
yeah! And I'm on 19200x1200 (thinkin' of getting 30"one on with 2594x1600)

OK building reached it's full hight - 196m
White parts are placeholders.
I'll be parking it for a while in order to finish the "red"
After that I'll be working on it finishing One Silver Sea and little by little filling the blanks on "Ukraina"

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F6591%2Fcam2fullheightnh2.jpg&hash=cbe1dd4597baf52695f3d9a1c36754eb762f07c9)

Simfox thank you for the answer and i hope to see some of them pretty nifft colorations soon..... OMG OMG OMG and did i say OMG that new building is something massivly awsome omg... Is that a parlimintary building or what???

Patfirefghtr:
OMG_ so many OMGs!!!

:D

The second one isn't a parliament. It is  a hotel/residential. The tower part is a hotel and wings are just  apartments.
Don't let the star on a spire confuse you! It is there for very banal reasons - nothing political really! When first spires were built on the towers it was recognized that in often gray Moscow sky they were "disappearing" in the background. So then the decision been made to put SOMETHING on a top as a marker, to delimit the extend of the spire. Nothing more clever then a star came to the mind. Apparently even Stalin wasn't to fond of Idea. But couldn't suggest anything better.

You're making Stalin proud with this  ;D Any guess how many residents will live there?

Well making that a..hold, let him burn in the eternal firelake, proud was last on my mind! :angrymore:

But I love the building and style. And in todays Moscow it is totally disassociated with the dictator apart from the name. :D
As for how many live there  - not all that many. And that was the major problem with this kind of buildings. First of all apartments are very large in area and volume - very high sealing with ample decor. Huge communal spaces like halls and staircases and elevator halls with marble, bronze and exotic woods. Inside it looks like one of those Moscow metro stations of the period. Plus huge chunk of it are just architectural decorations serving no other purpose then being impressive. Although in form it may resembles American skyscrapers of late 20s but in essence it couldn't be farther from the idea of maximizing the space.
It all comes to the fact that living or business spaces in building like that is astronomically expensive and could never make any economic sense! The cost of building the biggest one  - University building was equvalent of the for the entire town for 150 000 residents. It was absurd! Particularly in a country that just came out of the most devastating war in it's history. Where millions upon millions "working class" citizens in who's name the dictator had ruled were in fact homeless! As a result this grand style (not only for skyscrapers but for regular buildings (of about 8-10 floors in hight) was quickly abandoned after death of it's patron - Stalin. New leaders (actually prior to Khrushchev - who normally gets all recognition for it) declared historical turn - apartments for all! Architects were demoted from building monuments to supplying 100 million apartments in 10-15 years. Also that Grand style was very restrictive and in fact suffocated development of Soviet constructiveness in 20 early 30s - truly leading and new style.

Sorry if killed your desire to continue this great building  &cry2 but Stalin has those great moustache. But Soviets perhaps built these to show their power, as Dubai is doing now. Creating huge, expensive towers for landmark purposes basicly.

Ou, Nou!

Not at all, You haven't killed anything. I just think that i have to finish those started before first. I mean the "Red"  and at least One SilverSea. Metro Harbour View is too big to be exported at one go. As per AuotVino's clever discovery GMAX BAT (or to be precise one proprietary DLL within it - so we can do nothing about it) limits number of slabs - the tiles building is subdivided into to only 16 (each of max size 256x256 pixels). So I would have to break it apart somehow. %confuso

I have been doing some "red" UWV unwrapping - it progressing quite slowly, as it is my first use of the tool and I
m trying to figure best way to use it. However I've been still playing a bit with Ukraina and here are the latest shots of it:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg480.imageshack.us%2Fimg480%2F3846%2Fcam2stage71280hi9.jpg&hash=d19bbb9b49d324cffa62e433d1424a0d6bfbe05e) (http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3846/cam2stage71280hi9.jpg)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg352.imageshack.us%2Fimg352%2F9454%2Fcam1stage71280xx5.jpg&hash=11a833b960a5f75931507cf02537e5b687218a4f) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9454/cam1stage71280xx5.jpg)

Picture widths reduced to 1024 /RJ

what exactly does a UWV unrwrap do?

Well, exactly what the name suggests - it unwraps UWV space - mapping space into flat surface and hence allows you absolutely precise placement of textures - No longer you are dependent of the crude mapping options - planar, box, sphere etc. You just pain what you want where you want and it will be in that precise spot on your model!

The model is looking better, and better, and better and better ....  :thumbsup:  &apls

Dittio what Jeroni said wow Simfox that is spectacular  &apls :thumbsup:

Actually building Stalinist building in a place called "... torture chamber" is oddly appropriate...
BTW here first test of that UWV unwrapped RED.
It is very preliminary as of yet, but what do you think, does it break monotony of the wall sufficiently? Or should I make "panels" smaller?
Also do you think effect should be equally visible in sun and shade? Or should it be different? Where should it be more pronounced? In Shade or on the sun light surface of the wall?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F3908%2Fpanels1ei0.jpg&hash=3d6dd6b2984680f3a045004a0f0241a3d151e0ea)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F5887%2Fpanels2al5.jpg&hash=a58ca4104aaff748f3b69f4b0fd3c073b8956cbb)

I can't actually answer any of your questions, cause I know nothing about that kind of stuff.  But what I can say is that those building really look amazing!!

Robin   :thumbsup:

Simfox the red does indeed give character to whole building... The red on the other hand did it loss some of its color cause its seeming to me look a tad pinkish??  there we go some more insightful thought from me lol

Yeah, the red panels look a tad too pink indeed. ;) The size of the panels itself looks good, though. I don't know enough about all those lighting techniques, though, so I can't really recommend anything in this field.

"Actually building Stalinist building in a place called "... torture chamber" is oddly appropriate..." HAH HAH  $%Grinno$%

But as others said, nice nice work SimFox. Maybe more slightly darker red though?

 $%Grinno$% $%Grinno$% Release them soon!!!LOL.This building is perfect for my tastes  :thumbsup:

Still a bit pinkish for my taste, but the geometry is exceptional  ;)

Well that's pretty much the color it is in a real life. It is RED, but not to  dark, and it its aluminum panels so they have very glossy (stupid inverted term) reflections so it is never really very red except in the corner with like material. But if you have any idea about red/other color you would think it would look good at , please suggest it!

Using the uwv unwrap, eh?  I think that the 3ds max one is rather comfusing to use, I've used other uwv unwrap in other programs that were much easier to use and the unwrapping algorithim didn't jumble it all up together like I commonly get in 3ds max.  A simple box would be a cross with 6 squares, not a single square with many verticies to edit.
IMO, I think it looks fine.  The color also doesn't really fit my definition of pink.  It's just semi-desaturated red.  The first box is what it looks like without desaturation, the next is what it is in the preview.
The next two sets of boxes are comparing the current with what I think of pink.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi187.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx62%2FautoVino%2Fredcopy.jpg&hash=f8935e75bf8dc0f75aed119a6797e0d6f27de0d1)    (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi187.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx62%2FautoVino%2Fpink.jpg&hash=246feb8e66a4618f6dfb63dfd5079c669ad2b7d2)
I still don't see any pink.

after it being explained i still think it does look real good either way... I think its just funnie either way you look at it though with how the colors can actuely become distorted or even what lighting rig does for it, if im understanding it right.. Simfox you said its aluminum panles in RL so that really does exsplain alot... Auto i never said it was pink i just said it was pinkish looking...

To illustrate these properties of the material and the environment hre is same very color but with different ground more brownish tinted (the first one was more green)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg369.imageshack.us%2Fimg369%2F9392%2Fnewgroundai8.jpg&hash=30350e5f4e69f56dc15a30b3f57fe26243930cba)

 think the brown groundplane is vastly superior

It looks so much better now :thumbsup: Please write tutorials man, I wanna learn how you do that masterpieces!

Now looks much better imo  ;D. You are using so many tools and parameters in MAX that I get lost, but I can say I like the result  :thumbsup:

Yes, it looks better now  :thumbsup: How are the other colours coming, or are you doing them anymore?

Marcszar:
Thanx!
I guess it is like black and white photography; by removing color (textures) it forces you to concentrate on pure lines, shapes and volumes.
Bengt:
Other colors are possible. I just want to get one done to the end and then substituting colors would be mere technicality, well that and "artistic" bit of choosing one...

Here is a little update on "Red" Finally I got roof done... Still not sure about the texture, but I spent the whole day today building it.
Any one got any suggestion?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg355.imageshack.us%2Fimg355%2F148%2Fwithroof1gs5.jpg&hash=4a98e7455ed7c00cf0cfe0a6921e20294ff5b1ad)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg119.imageshack.us%2Fimg119%2F2098%2Fwithroof2nf2.jpg&hash=525f74dee1cb34173a3961b0f176e9004ac8d117)

PS
There is little difference between those shots, as I've been experimenting with different settings for ground plane, the texture on it is same though...

the bottom left one is perfect, i cannot see a single flaw. its time to do the nitelites and get this badboy on the lex, your first release will be greatly appreciated.

Loving this more than McDonald's (you know the ad I'm lovin it)  &apls

SimFox im so amazed wow... as MG said get this puppie on the LEX...

Beautiful work. Don't forget to make one as a prop, it'll be useful. :P

Simfox... Look superbe IMO.  :thumbsup:
Except the brown roof, it is like a parquet floor out of wooden... you can surely find a better one.

Thank you everyone, it is near completion... But there are still few touches left to be done. I'm sure gonna make one a prop, but there will be "deLuxe" model with little base, garage entrance and little landscaped garden.

bat56:
Well, it isn't parquet, just look at the size of the planks. It is wooden decking this is not quite a roof but a patio. As I've said above it isn't quite finished yet.

This is incredible !!!  :o

You probably wouldn't want wood at that elevation, even treated it'd need replacing in around a year (ground pollution, hot air rising, aircon units throwing out CFC's)...I'd recommend some form of patio paving.  Also, there is no access to the raised roof section, but you can probably get away with a steel ladder rather than steps.

Nice detailing and the colour will certainly make it visible in-game  :thumbsup:

Hm...
To be honest I fail to see how elevation of 100 or so meters would have on wood such a radical effect that would completely exclude it use for decking. What is a ground pollution?? Hot air rising?? What hot air and from where would it rise? And where are those aircon units and why should they necessarily throw out CFC's (btw aren't their use is banned by some international treaty?)
At any rate wood decking is getting more and more common,. I believe it is all about fashion, Paving is out wood is in, Technologically there are NO reasons for it not to work, besides, I have wooden decking on my patio/terrace, it has been there for 5 years now and need NO fixing.

Oooh, I just noticed the wooden decking. It looks very nice.

Cal: I'd have to echo SimFox on the use of wood decking - there are new treating compounds available nowadays that give wood increased resistance against that which you speak of. Plus, I highly doubt A/C units would have much of an effect in such a large building, considering they're most likely located at the top of the building. As for hot air rising, it would not have much of an effect on wood if it is protected well. I should know, we use a compound that protects our decking from the elements, and does a good job, I might add.

Love the building and I think the wooden patio on the roof looks great and is realistic.  The building I used to live in had 31 floors and the roof had a wooden sun deck for people to enjoy.  I don't remember the landlord ever doing anything to the deck in the two years that I lived there.
Great work!!

&apls

Robin   :thumbsup:

And here is another one:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg370.imageshack.us%2Fimg370%2F3121%2Fzapad1dx9.jpg&hash=4d4fa371ceb5c27b561b84fbd52df411232237d8)
:P

 :o

Of that red tower... could you also release a landmark (Commercial maybe) overhanging a 1 by 1 lot?

That would look too perfect next to the NAM long road curve

yeah! that's totally possible...

I have read through the entire topic and am astounded by the quality level of modeling. However I would really like to see something released for the game. I could find great 3d modeling on the internet in vast numbers, but would on this site actually see work that will contribute to the game.

Do not misunderstand me as if I am trying to push you into releasing but could you perhaps enlighten the community a tiny bit about whether you will or will not release your work for the simcity4 game. That is all I would like to know.

Serkannner: no offense taken! In fact i urge you guyz to remind me about schedule and releasing stuff. I do tend to get carried away, and jump to the new project when old one is, how to put it... well it is practically done, so the challenge of figuring out how to built thing is over, all that is left just tedium of making it to game...
But you are totally right ony final result should be something get satisfactions not some intermediate sketches... I solemnly promise that RED shall be ready for release (at least for modding) before the end of this week with Silver tower following suit soon after if not at the same time..

Quote from: SimFox on September 11, 2007, 05:53:40 AM
I solemnly promise that RED shall be ready for release (at least for modding) before the end of this week with Silver tower following suit soon after if not at the same time..

I sincerely hope it will be modded for the CAM! ::)
Just send the SC4Model file to me and I'll return a SC4Lot file, including the CAMified building descriptor.

After that only the lotting needs to be finalized in LotEditor. ;)

 ;D   .. the above two posts make me very happy indeed. Not only do we have a promise by one of the more talented batters around that he will actually release the great models he made, but also the CAM creator himself offers to help out the modding part and get them into the CAM game ... life is good  :thumbsup:

:-)

zoom5(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F9346%2Ffed8001jw4.jpg&hash=926fe33200ba61ad58ec3f0814f0ce0103a01d96)
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9483/2towers2lightsp5.jpg)

Zoom5(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg63.imageshack.us%2Fimg63%2F1129%2Ffed8002du0.jpg&hash=dc804b0d9d9aed3882936994271cc1347e9efc47) (http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2674/2towers3my2.jpg)
click to see accurate zoom5 previews
I haven't applied any stretching to these, and I think their don't really need any - at 506 m tall and 93 floors it would be ridiculous...

in time I plan to recreate all the buildings from this area  (there are 9 more skyscrapers under construction just next to this tower, 5 of them are supertalls ranging in hight from 304 to 612 m)

Awesome work again, though Federation Tower is ugly in my opinion. Actually your version is better than released renders  :P

Yeah, first I didn't like the building. But now it's huge and I know it will be a superb project again! Keep on workin.

That's nice.......  :o

&apls

Robin   :thumbsup:

Wow, excellent work, SimFox! That looks amazing!

Actually it is really HUGE the base will barely fit onto 9x5 lot!!! with no room for anything else - well may be one or two benches, but that's it! (base is more then 135 meters long!)
When people thing of skyscrapers first and often only thing that come to mind their hight, but these are absolutely massive structures! And with Federation - which I also liked the least of all Moscow City project, well least after monstrosity caller Imperia tower, the very immense size of it  - since two HUGE tower are so close to each other is absolutely overpowering. At he same time since all tower is absolutely smooth (all lattice is on the same level as the glass panels on outside) glass curtain wall that very gently barely perceptively curves in 3 dimensions all over the surface it doesn't look heavy in fact it make towers almost melt into the sky. This how towers will appear to person standing about 200 m away
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F2915%2F2towerscam21fu9.jpg&hash=4eb32e46afca30b86ff0944369bf03c4f9c40cfd)
and 130 m away (against sun)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F1699%2F2towercam1xc6.jpg&hash=7dcce945e244f54b1153389d303eb323e36e70d5)

and I'm dying to see the night clubs and restaurants on top of taller tower!!
just take a look at these renders from tower own site (www.federationtower.ru):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.federationtower.ru%2Ff%2F1%2Ftower%2Fpool_n_spa%2Fpool03.jpg&hash=eb232354a90fa3266ead97c777075c559629ac22)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.federationtower.ru%2Ff%2F1%2Ftower%2Frestaurants%2Flo02.jpg&hash=51b99f7ec8c92fde3c88b7f099e6f32ed3ccaa3d)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.federationtower.ru%2Ff%2F1%2Ftower%2Frestaurants%2Fsky03.jpg&hash=ceb8cd6a19f7dff69d5c0cf8add686cb3849ed76)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.federationtower.ru%2Ff%2F1%2Ftower%2Frestaurants%2Fsky01.jpg&hash=ba1a2ef75349b4d7777cd57689ac55808c79ef28)

Simply spectacular  ::)  &apls

Only one word to describe that-Wow.

Great work again. I know why the tower is ugly: it's so "fat".  ;D

WoW !!! This is incredible !!!! you must have an excellent computer to support your magnificient work ! lol

Oh man, this it's awesome...SimFox, excellent work  &apls

Saludos

Wonderful work on this building, SimFox!! :thumbsup:

Thank you guys!!
Well, week is coming to the end...
Time to keep promises.
"Red" is almost done here are latest renders:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F1687%2Fnight1bu5.jpg&hash=b7c490ff2a46efb920fbd77271fed178b230d05c)

What left is some fine tuning of the lighting Also i haven't yet decided how I'm going to light the lobby and roof patio.
But I hope it will all be done tonight/tomorrow so I could ship it to RippleJet for Modding and CAMeLoting :-)
As always suggestions and critique is welcome...

and one "inspirational" shot of Red's hometown:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F5723%2Fmoscownightuc0.jpg&hash=aa6f34db5b924d88a3f02e5cdc3803df892b9b4f)
photo by BRAD from www.skyscrapercity.com

Wow wow wow !!!!!! You have to be proud of your work ! I cannot wait to see the result on sc4 !!!

Red during night looks awesome. One of the best bats ever created  &apls And you're one of the best batters ever

Awesome indeed! Do you plan to add some deck chairs to the wooden upper level? Also, I think you could get rid of the tiled pattern on the topmost parts of the roof. Usually, you use some kind of foil to protect the roof from water, and a foil doesn't have any seams. ;)

Its an awesome piece of modeling and I will put some pressure on Ripplejet that when he receives the model he will make some haste getting it ready for the CAM ...  :P

Oooh, "Red" looks great, SimFox! The night shots look spectacular! I can't wait to see more!

Again a number one  &apls ¡¡¡

I was wondering all the nice things I could do reading some nice tutorials about making these beuties ...  :-\ ....   ::) ;D

Quote from: SimFox on September 15, 2007, 01:17:07 PM
But I hope it will all be done tonight/tomorrow so I could ship it to RippleJet for Modding and CAMeLoting :-)

&apls
I'm looking forward to it and it will be my pleasure! :thumbsup:

I'm sincerely apologize that I'm behind the schedule (in a best tradition of all construction project  - what left is to invent the way to be over the budget in CG).
But here it is the final night render of RED.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg363.imageshack.us%2Fimg363%2F5439%2Ffinalnight1cd8.jpg&hash=0167ed0e1c98e02c366c91b35ea77d6319f9845e)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg369.imageshack.us%2Fimg369%2F5769%2Ffinalnight2lv4.jpg&hash=08b62eae79c0a6d7f33faf14e0cec7e39a75c932)

I've decided to leave the "grid" on a roof top as without it it looks a bit "shapeless" but I have made it less apparent, softer as to mimic dirt accumulation at the places of the edges of the panels under the foil or what ever is that they put on roof... Also I've decided to do Lobby with Night maps same as windows. Only roof patio uses "lights" and even those are made with same technique and lights are light emitting geometry to give realistic soft area shading.

But that isn NOT all i would like to show you and ask your opinion on:
Here is my new "old" pet project that I would call TruNite for the luck of better term and for descriptiveness of it.
I'm to be honest sick and tired of DayNight of SimCity (like in old movies when they film night scene during day time with very strong filter on the lens. It looks dark but it doesn't look a bit like night.
So to bring SimCity from 50's b movies to the modern world and still keep it compatible with all the old stuff I've devised little alteration to night lighting scheme.
Building on the left is default "night" appearance of SC4 and one on the right is done with TruNite:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg363.imageshack.us%2Fimg363%2F8452%2Ftruniteez2.jpg&hash=fbeafca056c47e4dc698af23a602a25b6c9ebd73)

I think Gizmo's latest mod, the Day-Night Mod v1.0 is what you need, SimFox! :thumbsup:

Download here: http://gizmo.lunarpages.com/index.php?action=downloads&d=Effect+Mods

You need to register to get in: http://gizmo.lunarpages.com/

that NightDay mode is a great thing that I was looking for for quite a while!
But... and there is always "but" - it is totally different thing than TruNite.
Gizmo's mod is Game level Effect mod. It wouldn't affect bats or maxis building the way TruNite does.
Nite is done in game via simple overlay, that is controlled by 3 numbers - values for R (red) G (green) and B (blue) one location of those is found you can make you night what ever you like green, red or bright yellow. But that is just an overlay uniformly affecting everything it covers. Well about uniformity that is a little bit trick Based on the mixing mode it tend to affect different brightness level somewhat differently, but still it's effect is global. Besides BATs, building Props are ready images so nothing WITHIN them will be affected only tho whole thing. So if I use same allegory I used earlier about night in a game being day with a filter on this mod from Gizmo is simply putting darker filter on Camera.
TruNite works in a very different way - int alters the BAT itself, if you llok at the image you should notice that there crucial difference is not that it is just darker but completelly different nature of shadows. What TruNite does it actually turns day into the night by removing SUN from the scene. Then standard Night procedure (overlay) darkens the sky and voilá you have something much more passable as night.
The drawbacks (and there are always those) is that the way it will be integrated into the game will make it independent from mods like Gizmos and also make it incompatible with sunset/dawn in the game - but buildings would look MUCH better at night! So this is really the question of a trade-off...

Quote from: SimFox on September 17, 2007, 06:38:16 AM
The drawbacks (and there are always those) is that the way it will be integrated into the game will make it independent from mods like Gizmos and also make it incompatible with sunset/dawn in the game - but buildings would look MUCH better at night! So this is really the question of a trade-off...

Those drawbacks are pretty serious though...
In other words, TrueNite should have been integrated in the BAT from its release. &mmm

nope... it's integration into BAT is actually totally irrelevant. the issue is how the night is made in game. past the actual process of building making.
So I see TruNite as an option, for those who don't do much sunrises/sets it could significantly improve the way their cities look at night (with lights on) bringing it couple of steps up the realism ladder.
Besides the core of TruNite is also a key to get night reflections and other effects.

Me myself I would definitely choose TruNite as the difference it makes espectilaly for complex buildings with a lot of reflective surfaces is dramatic to say the least. and the briefer moment of dusk dawn is too fleeting to be concerned about. At any rate there are so many inconsistencies and discrepancies in the game and people don't seem to notice them, i believe same will be with TruNite ones after some body of buildings with it be available.

Well, I guess we can't change the way how the light is "made" in the game, can we? We can adjust the parameters and make the general lighting darker, but we can't change the method how the game creates the night mode. Anyway, TruNite or not, the finished model looks great, and your explanation about the roof panels sounds feasible. It definitely looks a lot better than before. :)

I think that as long as you clearly explain how the nightlights work with this system ( and the drawbacks that you mentioned), it is up to the user to use it or not. If you go for realism ( and I know you go for it) dont worry about this. Just satisfy yourself  ;)



Btw, I really like the model, with Truenite or without it  ;D

Jeronji:
actually youknow what?? you are sort of the father of this model!!
I've started it as an illustration for some techniques I use after we spoke (in PM) about some issues with snapping etc..
I've looked around what would be fitting shape for such a tutorial of sorts and this building came to my attention...
Now after it will be released (I plan to export it this night). I'll make that tutorial, promise!
Andreas:
Thank YOU for the advise with grid, it really was to sharp and artificial as it was...
BTW here are comparisons of TruNite on other 2 sides of the tower:

South:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F7705%2Fcompsouthkr4.jpg&hash=f534448b66b80806e4898e0f72b56114a0ade09b)
East:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg116.imageshack.us%2Fimg116%2F3809%2Fcompeastbs8.jpg&hash=d84bdf9d0e1ae236a645252f43c6967746d7485e)
West:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F3170%2Fcompwestfv4.jpg&hash=a52736e9158516465f2965e25e980bd1a327e4f1)
BTW post color swatches of the colors you would like to see this tower in besides this GreyWhiteRed combo

This is a beauty!  ;D The CAM will do her justice... *nudge-nudge, wink-wink*  :P

It is really incredibly beautiful and totally awesome!  :thumbsup:  &apls  &apls

its wonderful and it resembles most of todays buildings in urban housing.

Quote from: SimFox on September 17, 2007, 08:38:39 AM
Jeronji:
actually youknow what?? you are sort of the father of this model!!
I've started it as an illustration for some techniques I use after we spoke (in PM) about some issues with snapping etc..
I've looked around what would be fitting shape for such a tutorial of sorts and this building came to my attention...
Now after it will be released (I plan to export it this night). I'll make that tutorial, promise!

These are most excellent news  :thumbsup: . And I feel really proud of my unknown son  :D  :D

Quote from: SimFox on September 17, 2007, 07:12:24 AM
nope... it's integration into BAT is actually totally irrelevant. the issue is how the night is made in game. past the actual process of building making.
So I see TruNite as an option, for those who don't do much sunrises/sets it could significantly improve the way their cities look at night (with lights on) bringing it couple of steps up the realism ladder.
Besides the core of TruNite is also a key to get night reflections and other effects.

TruNite is definitely a great improvement on the normal tinted day version.  As far as sunrises and sunsets in game are concerned, the people who would be most concerned are likely to be those making MDs, but I suspect even most of those would be willing to sacrifice sunrise/sunset for better night scenes.

Looking forward to seeing 'Red' released and to your TruNite tutorial.  :thumbsup:

 &mmm
my first attempt to export the RED had failed.... I just left it to export over the night Monday night and ... well it didn't at all... I mean it hasn't even started Error code 6 with notice in script window error occurred somewhere - very descriptive!! after poking around yesterday I've found the reason but still the limitations and inconsistencies of the BAT export scrip are getting to my nerve... Something has to be done to it to bring it up to date. All the garbage inherited from GMAX days should be scraped and all process streamlined and separated in two parts - rendering of views and slicing them. This first part should be simple batch render procedure. this would eliminate 95% of all export errors. and would give the possibility of editing the resulting images pre slicing - that opens huge array of new possibilities.
Of course there is always "manual" export option - rendering each view separately and manually aligning them with LOD exports and then slicing...
Anywho...
I'll be exporting the building tonight
And here are couple of mug shots of real RED taken couple of days ago by BOLIK:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frl.foto.radikal.ru%2F0709%2F37%2F4c561fc3adb0.jpg&hash=cc846302b4be35cf63047b45706715e88cfdffcd)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frl.foto.radikal.ru%2F0709%2F27%2Fbe81afcaedf6.jpg&hash=165170b466eedc7e2249a86c87cd5f85d0257a8f)

bump, bump

here are first in-game views:

south
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F6537%2Fsouthbasiciz5.jpg&hash=2de226cf3477a1d3774ad84693306b092a8a6939)
east
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg451.imageshack.us%2Fimg451%2F9461%2Feastbasicdw7.jpg&hash=4b4a7fbd78294214cd0bd6ccbf0b2a471e3a22ac)
north
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F4678%2Fnorthbasicud2.jpg&hash=3640722ebad60304636e01a342668504e7dcdc75)
west
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F1108%2Fwestbasicgy9.jpg&hash=632822d3618deb197566267c84a379832eb04971)

these are "basic" with few things disabled as to render faster I wanted to see if the changes I've made are working (see above my export problems)
And they do.
Besides I guess this one will be suitable for moding, and later new rendered model could be simply coupled with other files, right?
I think it looks pretty decent in game. Not to bright no too dark, also color palette wise it fits in, (IMHO) size is also seems to be fitting the environment.
Actually with the final render it will become a tad brighter, not too much just a bit... Do you think it has a room for it?

looks great, yeah you can tell its a draft render..about the model file it depends... you would have to change the replacement model files name to the exact of the original. thats not too difficult but ive never tried it before..

mighty, can you tell exactly how you can see that this is "draft"?

It fits very well in game! :thumbsup:

Quote from: SimFox on September 19, 2007, 03:27:54 AM
Besides I guess this one will be suitable for moding, and later new rendered model could be simply coupled with other files, right?

True, there is no problem in replacing an early model with a later one.
Compared to the effort of getting it rendered, the modding will be a piece of cake. ;)

Whenever you want to see a basic CAMeLot of it, just send me the model file (final or not). ;)

i can sed that one to right away so you could CAMeLOT it while I'll iron out some remaining issues with rendering

The picture below shows the first CAMeLot with the Red House (R§§ stage 12 on a 3×2 lot):
The name of it is just for SimFox to understand... :P

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg221.imageshack.us%2Fimg221%2F2808%2Fredhousequeryra4.jpg&hash=eca75e9485aa8ce21c69e06bd30f2ba0f2160b75)

SimFox, you need to make a custom LOD for it. ;)
As it is now, no props can be placed at the entrance...

If that's where the entrance is... the building doesn't have a door! $%Grinno$%

Well, that looks great in the game, SimFox! Great job! And great work with the testing, RippleJet!

So we're finally going to get a SimFox building to play with ....  ;D

Looks excellent in game.

Now this does look nice! Can't wait to get my hands on it and do a little modding of my own.

Quote from: RippleJet on September 19, 2007, 09:24:31 AM
The name of it is just for SimFox to understand... :P

I'm glad I've studied Russian for 5 years.

...And barely understand the name...

OMG ! What a BAT !!

It looks perfect in game  &apls

I hope you can iron these issues soon, and we can see the nightlights as well  ;D

I'll be doing manual export and assembly for this one and with next BAT I'll have to take a longer look at scripts and MR to find out what causes this problems.

BTW I have a question to all who use MAX. Do any of you have your system Units set to be inches?

Bump
the red is done. I've spend almost two days manually rendering and assembling the whole thing as normal export wouldn't go due to that system unit mismatch... anyway. the TruNite  regular version of it should be available for download shortly as soon as I'll put together some passable lot for it
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg232.imageshack.us%2Fimg232%2F6823%2Frs1df1.jpg&hash=1558b6875f1535a041b439671bc1f1bd72d0cb9a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg79.imageshack.us%2Fimg79%2F1600%2Frs2hb9.jpg&hash=354cd43fe12b91c2b79a467fcada23baeec02126)

and here are big Zoom5 views:
click on thumbnails to see the whole picture
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg229.imageshack.us%2Fimg229%2F4210%2Fr2sl3.th.jpg&hash=000b568e76bec7acaf3b658bc04212599f5ef341) (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=r2sl3.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg86.imageshack.us%2Fimg86%2F7842%2Fr1aw6.th.jpg&hash=cc04524a075a625a6755243d880b7388204208fa) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=r1aw6.jpg)


RippleJet so how about CAMeLOT?? should I send you new model file or will you send me the Desc

What is with horrible doubleposting and bumbing old theards  :bomb:

Ooh, beautiful! Release these and I'll forgive you.

i like to see a lilac version please.

now that is nice! :thumbsup:

OMG They are excellent !!!!!!

Quote from: SimFox on September 21, 2007, 10:53:54 AM
RippleJet so how about CAMeLOT?? should I send you new model file or will you send me the Desc

Send me the model and I'll send the SC4Lot file back, which includes the building exemplar (desc file). :thumbsup:
The lot will have only basic Maxis base textures, nothing else.

For lotting in LotEditor, that file needs to be in the root of your plugins.
By saving (not saving as) from LE, you will be able to keep those two files within the SC4Lot file. ;)

Quote from: SimFox on September 20, 2007, 01:01:58 PM
BTW I have a question to all who use MAX. Do any of you have your system Units set to be inches?

Nope...metres all the way.  Why would one set the units to a sub-measure unless you were modelling an object rather than architecture?...and even then you'd probably be better off with cm.

Ripple:
I'm sending it now!

Callagrafx:
Apparently MentalRay particularly its GI is set to work with inches. When some changes had been made to it (I think in a version 3.2) to redefine and make much more precise the GI calculations there was a question what should be taken as an unit, and since US is a biggest market it was decided to stick with inches as a unit. Anyway I ended up switching from Meters to inches because I had odd artifacts popping up on concave surfaces when I used Mental Ray. The problem was limited ONLY to mental ray. Scanline and Vray work fine! But I can not use V-ray for BAT because of it's camera settings and I actually like the look MR gives to exterior scenes better then that of V-ray. Plus it works wonders with glossy materials and FG with Self-illuminated materials is a killer! Anyway back to the reasons I switched to inches - I've traced problem to ray-traced shadows and then to units. So when I switch to inches as a SYSTEM unit problem is gone! So i decided to keep that settings as I've came across of statment by one quite expirienced and trust worth person that one should touch that settings at a risk of all sort of MR problems. Only when I was tweaking GI for RED did I realized the world of difference in realism that having "right" system unit means!

about doing exporting manually, I'm pretty sure there's a way to copy part of the script and "feed" it the images that you use.  Or write a script that automatically and correctly names all the texture slabs that you make.
Also, I've been able to succesfuly export individually each zoom and rotation (not sure about day/night views yet, this may be tricky) and then recombine them using the scripts that came with bat4max.  Meaning that I did a seperate export that only did a certain zoom and rotation, then putting the output files together and getting it into a model. (this makes rendering a lot less frustrating when for some odd reason your render crashes... so instead of restarting, just start from where you left off.  But, after each render it is mandatory that the output files are backed up, or there may be some trouble...)
Hopefully the same principals can be applied to day/night renders making trunight easier to export.

Auto!!
That is very interesting topic!! I mean exporting separately each zoom/rotation! Could you send me that script? or part of it and may be some instructions???

QuoteApparently MentalRay particularly its GI is set to work with inches. When some changes had been made to it (I think in a version 3.2) to redefine and make much more precise the GI calculations there was a question what should be taken as an unit, and since US is a biggest market it was decided to stick with inches as a unit.

That stands to reason...thanks for the info, I'll try it out with some stuff I'm doing, although I've not really noticed any artifacts as such.  I had a problem with highly reflective concave surfaces and MR (rendered black where there was a bright highlight) on 64bit but SP2 sorted that out.  I'll have to take a closer look.

Callagrafx:
Well my guess was quite close...
Here is the info from the man involved in the development of Mental Ray concerning that inch/meter issue:

Quote
"It seems from my research that max places the orthographic camera "100000" units from the scene. The problem is that a single precision float (which all geo data in mr is, to save space) is only accurate to about 8 decimals.... so this is why values in inches (that tend to be in the 0.5-10 range) work fine whereas the same number in *meters* which end up being approximately 0.002-0.25 go beyond the decimal limits.... i.e. 100000.5 can be expressed cleanly in single precision float, whereas 100000.002 can't...."

and here is an illustration of the problem I see with GI:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F2328%2Fmetervsinchav6.jpg&hash=a2bfd227c993816a25b5fa586446ec435ef91bb7)
one on the left is with inches and is correct in my view. One on the right is with meters, and I think it is NOT correct
but here with RED it is even more obvious: look at th area Under the roof canopy:
I think in some cases (when the most of the light is the bounced one) the difference is WAY to big to ignore
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg444.imageshack.us%2Fimg444%2F6964%2Fimperialmetricyq8.jpg&hash=c0b9b439d86979565985ccd82710f0fe11e2831c)

BTW did your artifacts look anything like these:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F9154%2Fchairmrproblemld5.jpg&hash=98a7aaf3e69b2a1276cc299a0f914a75102c5811)

wow, there's a hell of a difference in shadow density...And I haven't had artifacts like those, just a complete burn through of a highlit area, which I don't think was much to do with this and more to do with a problem with MR 64bit rendering, which they fixed with SP2.

I haven't done anything really with the ortho perspective with a GI rig so that's probably why I haven't come across it yet.  Good that you found the cause and the solution  :thumbsup:

P.S.  Reflections look much better now btw....obscure definitely works better for the game.

Wow wow wow! That moscow stalin building is one fantastic building! And your BAT is one fantastic BAT  ;) I can't wait to get the game going again so I can download it!

It looks more impressive than any skyscraper I have seen  ;D It really deserves a special place, like a plaza in front of it or something. Your other BATs are nice too  $%Grinno$%

Bra jobbat  :thumbsup:

Just couldn't resist and doodled new res tower today:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg48.imageshack.us%2Fimg48%2F5402%2Fkt1jb6.jpg&hash=6fa4517939845346cee179357fab9a30397dd86f)

how do you doodle and come up with that?  Amazing design and color  :thumbsup:

I also like those colors, actually that was what have drawn me to that building in the first place.
But mean wile something a bit more simple, eg for the masses.
First in a new series of Commieblocks - mass produced residential buildings constructed with massive prefabricated modules:
P44TM - very romantic name isn't it:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F8888%2Fp44tmnorth1ia5.jpg&hash=c85722cac25eb3b017a4e852b19cdb02fcb41d5c)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg229.imageshack.us%2Fimg229%2F4046%2Fp44tmsouth1zz3.jpg&hash=d3b13487569595f670670a9c9547f952d6da774a)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg476.imageshack.us%2Fimg476%2F7548%2Fp44tmsidesau0.jpg&hash=4b6636c63555f1207b2e4df9e1fc9ef629f8ce74)

I realy like that last BAT, very beautiful and impressive, excellent work  &apls

Nice work simfox. ;D

Oh by the way, ever thought of doing the Moomin house?:P Now that would be funny to have in sc4. :D

Oh I love Moomie Dål!! Was my favorite fairytale!! But the house is very small and would be totally lost in SC4 Scale...

Lovely, something about the desing especially attracts me to them.  I don't know what, though.
:thumbsup:

Quote from: SimFox on October 08, 2007, 04:25:07 PM
Oh I love Moomie Dål!! Was my favorite fairytale!! But the house is very small and would be totally lost in SC4 Scale...

Isn't Muumitalo / Moomin House 5 stories high in the comics and in the series? 20 metres and about 1 square wide.

and you assume muumies being hight of a person?? I think more of the size of large cat...

Quote from: SimFox on October 12, 2007, 01:27:44 AM
and you assume muumies being hight of a person?? I think more of the size of large cat...

Well, that Nuuskamuikkunen (wears green hat) apperas to be human. And trees and other stuff appears to be normal height, so Moomins are as high as humans.

hm... well, may be...
Basically I'm not comfortable of making some totally fantasy thing, not yet.

Here is a first attempt (well result of whole Saturday tinkering) at the making appearance of brick surface what do you say, folks:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F8439%2Fp44corner2westsw4.jpg&hash=d2a2be8566666fb0999f71d0c542bc5ef05480cc)

btw does anyone has any knoledge of FSH file format? How does compression work and is there any other way to make FSH files then FSHtool? It seems that it does rather ppor job with it...
I assume it got to be something like 256 color PNG.
Here is how it is relates to other SC4 structures in terms of size, color etc and also to show how FSHTool had degraded the quality:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg370.imageshack.us%2Fimg370%2F6003%2Ftallcorner1xy2.jpg&hash=8a74821ec5157681646af948cb49f32d210893c4)

Don't really know if there's a way around FSH compression, and if there was, it would probably make the model file too big to use in game realistically...it's the same principle as web design, small file sizes are good, large file sizes bad.

On to the brick texture...can't really see the bond, but that's not an issue for a building of this scale.  However, it's too saturated and too orangey.  Try desaturating a little and adding some yellow in.  I'm presuming it's a procedural texture with some colour variance.

well it is an orange brick...
as for bond - sure you can not see it - there is NO way to see something so small in game view!! I specially put it next to another brick building to show how does brick look in SC4.
And yes it is a procedural but not tiles. I'll try lower saturation levels ...
But here is that building (well one of its variants) in real life
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg-fotki.yandex.ru%2Fget%2F2%2Fsashkon.4%2F0_1076_c90e3f9a_orig&hash=8cd175168ab63283c7cd3fe304e08ee04984665e)

Aha...That RL pic does explain what you're trying to achieve, although the bright sun under dark sky does skew the reality of the building somewhat. As for the bond, most BATers exaggerate the brickwork to be visible (can't say I 100% agree with this but hey  :thumbsup: ).  However, there's enough of a variance to give the impression of brick, so nice one  :thumbsup:

well...
but about FSH files... you know that different some compression algorithms do produce better result then others and given the size of FSH's produced by FSHTool I would say it uses the worst I've ever seen - quality is really c...p while size of individual  FSH is rather high

Nice building. There is a lot of geometry which makes it interesting to look at.

Regarding the brick. I usually put a gradient on everything. Even brick. The Maxis building you compared yours too has subtle variations along the tall brick facade as well. So I would recommend the same for yours. Perhaps a 10% gradient? If your goal is to really make it look like brick, then you will probably have to exaggerate the size of the bricks slightly. As it stands now the casual gamer will probably decide that the building has a stucco surface. Which is not a bad thing as it is a nice building so far. 

I'll not comment on anything else as it seems that the purpose of the screen grab is to look at the facade. The roof and ground floor textures (I assume) are on your 'to do' list.

yep Roof and ground floor are on the to do list. I'm currently considering should I keep roof green or go for more "fresh" bronze look
Bricks... well those exaggerations by some BATers (and general disrespect for some common sense truths under the notion of "it is a game it doesn't need to be realistic" and "suspense of disbilief" are to blame that some casual gamer may consider such a surface to be a stucco. And I'm not playing that game In fact I just try to do opposite. And I more and more see that original game content was in fact MUCH more realistic that it is commonly given credit to be!! Of course there are some significant variation in that with most "modern" building being of significantly lower quality then Chicago/NY set.

JMYERS2043: please do say on other things... even if this is far from being finished (or actually because  of it) you comments could be more important and practical!!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg139.imageshack.us%2Fimg139%2F1669%2Fp44tcorner1ff5.jpg&hash=86da713b936a0afa90c7a96872a592f5cf0bf9f6)

 &apls Nice bat!

In the last screenshot 3dsmax really give the impression that this is a real building!

Coming together nicely here, SimFox. The bricks look good! Keep up the good work, my friend!

Here is a "low-rise" assembly:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg136.imageshack.us%2Fimg136%2F1881%2Fp44tlowrise1ql8.jpg&hash=42cf2841a2169a3b0597df87d7f2c96319c4100c)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F2900%2Fp44tlowrise2kc3.jpg&hash=088e1255bd9afcd0efa5c8ca76e6628759e39456)

So, basically, what I'm trying to do is to recreate in BAT the way these are built in real life. So that great variety of sizes and overall shapes could be assembled.
There are few difficult points in making this - for instance texturing the roof. Doing it with bitmaps will lead to repeat of same pattern... to avoid this it would have to be done procedurally  - that will be next task as, practically, all the modules of this particular subset -P44T is ready.

I sometimes use a texture within the procedural (as a colour map) and that usually produces a decent result...also by using an overlaid gradient you can get the effect Jmyers mentioned.

There are some very beautiful BAT's here SimFox. I don't understand what is meant by procedural, I guess I'll have to do a search to find out. Also I'm curious how you can create such big scenes without your computer running out of virtual memory. I have a very fast machine with lots of RAM (maxed out for windows XP) but still have trouble rendering with the "Simtroplois" maxscript (no problem just rendering in 3dsmax9 though). How big are your poly counts if you don't mind me asking?
PS:
I also have learned much form your input in the 3dsmax threads on Simtropolis. Thanks

Quote from: dogfight on October 14, 2007, 11:09:32 PM
There are some very beautiful BAT's here SimFox. I don't understand what is meant by procedural, I guess I'll have to do a search to find out. Also I'm curious how you can create such big scenes without your computer running out of virtual memory. I have a very fast machine with lots of RAM (maxed out for windows XP) but still have trouble rendering with the "Simtroplois" maxscript (no problem just rendering in 3dsmax9 though). How big are your poly counts if you don't mind me asking?
PS:
I also have learned much form your input in the 3dsmax threads on Simtropolis. Thanks

A procedural texture is a method of creating textures that are calculated, rather than a bitmap.  There are a number of these maps built into Max and the one Simfox is using on the wall is called Tile (you can use it for brick too, just change the "bond").  Have a read of the help on procedural textures and have a play, they're extremely effective, especially to avoid the dreaded bitmap texture tile effect.

As for memory, have you enabled the Windows 3GB switch?  If you have XP 32bit, Windows will only allow an application to address 2GB at the most, so no matter how much RAM you put in, that's the upper limit.  By applying the 3GB switch, you are telling XP that applications can use more system RAM.  For details on how to do this, read my post > HERE < (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2596.msg79875#msg79875).  It doesn't matter if you do not have 3GB or more RAM installed, XP will then just use the VM pagefile.

I've rendered something along the size of Simfox's Moscow Red (using FG and GI) and on a Quad Core 3Ghz 64Bit system it took around 6.5 hours.  The BAT4Max script renders each view 3-4 times (depending on lighting) and this equates to up to 80 renders.  I would show it, but it's a secret :P

Dogfight:
Just as Callagrafx said the procedural maps/textures are those that are created with a certain procedure/calculations during the render - hence the name. These types of maps has few advantages over bitmaps.
First of all they are resolution free. If you try to zoom in on any bitmap image you start to see degradation of quality, with procedurals being calculated on a fly (similar to vector graphics) you can zoom in endlessly without loosing ANY of the quality. Because they are not a bunch of pixels stuck together but a mathematical formulas.
Second advantage is very small memory footprint that comes with these virtually infinite quality. With bitmaps to avoid this quality loss I mentioned above you try to get as big map as possible but that means large files sizes. during render all those maps are loaded and occupy memory space.
Third advantage is that procedurals being just mathematical formulas are infinite in space. What it means is that there will be NO tiling. Well that depends on formula of course. Some formulas may be cyclical and create say stripes or checker pattern, but other are infinite where each point on X (and or Y) has unique value on Z. and this brings us to
Third - procedurals can be 3 dimentinal unlike any bitmaps...
To take full advantage of those 2 last properties you should assign your mapping space to World coordinates. This way your "texture" occupies the entire universe. That's right UNIVERSE! It stretches billions of light yeas to the limits of time-space itself , starting for the XYZ 0,0,0 on the screen in front of you!!

About this particular one I've used to create bricks appearance... Well, it isn't tiles. When doing 3d or any graphics for that matter - you're creating illusions not documenting reality. Probably best illustration to this concept are the paintings of impressionists. Come close to Monet painting and all you see are just smudges of paint, step couple of meters away and voilá beautiful, breathtaking, ALIVE scenery. Tiles are great for some occasions, but by trying to recreate life as it is, they have some limitations making them in same cases incapable of doing just that! First limitation is that it is 2 dimensional map. Second is that it is only partially procedural and it is NOT infinite. That means it requires UVW mapping being applying to whatever you put it on and it will follow that mapping plus you'll run into tiling issue rather sooner then later on large objects with small tiles.
I needed illusion of brick, not bricks, and I needed it being everywhere - UVW free. So that where ever I place piece of geometry with material using that map it will give unique, random look. So I used cellular map (modified after a fashion, of course) -it is infinite, doesn't need any UVW mapping and does a convincing result at he zoom levels that are used in game and even at somewhat large perspective renderings.

Memory wise...
well I'm in fully 64bit system - OS, MAX etc... but even 32 bit system would have to run quite far before hitting the memory wall. Often it is bitmaps hat are culprits here. Most problems with Script aren't really memory related as people think. Over the years quite a few things get changed in MAX hat made the script less compatible with the program. One of the biggest and most visible was move after max 7 to two separate unit system - display one and System one withing MAX. That is the reason for not being able to use classic night windows and some problem people experienced (me among them) with script. For instance if your MAX system units are set to inches your export will fail. Script also does a lot of things that are totally redundant and not optimized to work with max. All in all it is LONG overdue for major shake-up that would deal away with about 70% of code. For instance all those passes Callagrafx mentioned - in reality only 2 needed (instead of 3½) it is only a matter of organizing and processing info obtained from them.

About your problems...
if you can render with max and can not with script then it is NOT about either memory of size of your model or polygon count. It, most definitely, is rooted in some of the script inconsistencies.

Polycount
This scene is actually very light. What you see on those last renders (lower rise assembly) is about 90 000 polygons. This number could be still reduced (may be even by half or more) but there is no point to it.  Number of polygons (unless it runs into several millions shouldn't be problem even on 32 bit system with relatively modest about of memory - eg bellow the OS limit. For instance my CandyGarden (on STEX) has about 2,5 million polygons and had been made on 32 bit system (AMD x64 3500+ but still 32 bit XP) and tool about 1,5 to export.  So polygon count isn't the main issue even in regard of time it takes to render something. It is pixel count of resulting image that is main factor and all the processing you assign to them - GI and the rest of zoo.

The brick/tile/whatever (I can't really see what it is :P) procedural texture looks quite good. It suits the building very well. Why not do the same with the roof, just with concrete instead?

The low rises look stunning, too, my friend! You are certainly banging out the fantastic content here!

SA:
Well do you mean the green part of the roof? or the dark grey one...
The issue with either of them is that the pattern shouldn't be just accidental and chaotic as in case with "bricks". It needs to be eitehr regualr as with roofing tiles (on green part) or proximity and some such based for the flat roof tops. Both could be done procedurally with some degree of success, but it may prove not time efficient, plus result wouldn't be in most cases quite as good as some bitmap texture may be.
Thundercrack:
thank you :-)

Hi Sim Fox
Technically, the geometry of the bat is great (both tall and short versions). The only thing that that I could nitpick at is the height of the ground floor. I guess in Finland that ground floors are the same height as floors 2 through XXX. I am used to seeing ground floors that are about 1 ½ stories high. Especially when the building is 5 or so stories and higher.  I assume that your floor height is around 5 meters high ... so I'd make the ground floor somewhere in the 7.5  and based on the SimCity top down view I may even go higher.   The taller version of the orange color brick building comes to mind as one that could use a bit of a ground floor stretch.  The second thing that I would nitpick at is the lack of a gradient on the large surfaces. But I don't think that you are of a mind to change that so I'll stop bugging you about it.  :)

callagrafx and SimFox: Thanks for your help. I have looked through a few tutorials on procedural maps and they have given me a start. It's quite complicated so I'll take it slow ??? Thanks for both your help :thumbsup:

anytime dogfight, anytime!
JMYERS2043:
well... first of all this building isn't from Finalnd, but from Moscow - it is a typical and cheapest newly constructed type of accommodations you'll find in the city. So I guess it should be R$... but crazy real estate market makes even this to be quite pricey square meter in a block like that in the outskirts of city would set you back as much as sqm in some of the best locations in very very good buildings in say Berlin. So, not sure what should it be... but i still think it probably should be R$ as already R$$ are built there with individual unique(sh) designs...
Speaking of floor hight... well since this is a building made from standardized prefabricated pieces  ground floor (that is non residential btw) is of same hight as the storeys above but it itself is elevated above ground about 1 -1,5 m so in total it is about the 1,5 floors till the second  (first residential) floor. and my model is faithfully recreating it. So total hight of ground floor is 1,5 times of the normal floor. So I guess it is an optical illusion...  Regular floor hight is in the case of this building 3,9m as I have followed the original hight of 2,7+,3m and applied 1,3 stretch to it. And Ground floor is 5,85m in hight.

Here is a first attempt at texturing roof:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg98.imageshack.us%2Fimg98%2F5509%2Froof1ux5.jpg&hash=220f090a7969306d5f3fb77b16b1f91dba9c1173)

WoW Incredible work !!! so realistic !!

I've changed the roof tiles a bit; tell me if that is progress or regress...
also color wise...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F1675%2Fnewroofcoloroptionsdt6.jpg&hash=d8f7b3c3487169048fc31e2fd1b3d1b44bd9d831)

The roof tiles look much better, they look a little cleaner.

It fits in with everything else, too.


What about one with Colorbond sheeting rather than tiles?

SA:
In a way it is a mix of those mats of sorts... Bump map is pretty much in the form of Colorbond...
here is first try of base mat:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg143.imageshack.us%2Fimg143%2F8551%2Fbase1nc3.jpg&hash=a412489a6982b38f1162a1b87942cf1f86b4b8ca)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F8153%2Fbase2bn6.jpg&hash=af02302dce174ff47693308b114f08e0f288680a)

I see, I like them, just one suggestion, why don't you get one with other roof textures, (seprate lots) and do them. (it's just a suggestion.....)

Also, it's a goodun'  :thumbsup:

*my 45th post*

I like the concrete tiling at the bottom of the building, it looks worn and suits the texture beautifully.

This building looks like it'd fit beautifully in SC4. I wouldn't mind seeing diagonal variants of this building, just for something different.

I really like this model.  There is a building near where I use to live that looked just like this.  The base looks fantastic, but I wander if it's possible to make the white a little more faded, dirtier. I just think it's too clean.  IMHO.
But I can't wait to check this one out, great job.

Robin   &apls

Hello SimFox. I'm not sure if your interested in opinions or not but I'm in favor of the green roof over the blue :thumbsup: For my own knowledge, the very top flat roof (grey squares). Is that a bitmap with an added noise map? I also like what you have done with the base, again is it a bitmap and a noise map added? Just curious ;)

DF:
The the grey part of the roof is fully procedural - it is tiles map with cellular used for tiles themselves and plain very dark grey for the lines between those
Base is a bit different  it is also tiles map with bitmap as the tiles

Well as there seems to be more demand for midrise I guess this corner accessibly will be first of CommieBlocks ready for STEX. It is basically ready only night lighting left to be done also I've be planting the seeds again:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F6254%2Ffloora1oe5.jpg&hash=969f8a07515282131369925a71ace09a3790a15d)

PS.
Rooker1
well that's a good idea...
I'll try to though some procedural dirt on it...

Commie blocks?

No way, these are far too nice for commie blocks. Are they going to be R$$?

but they are commieblocks, just new ones - mass produced prefabricated assembled on site accommodation for the masses. On a separate note commie blocks don't need to be nasty... they could be nice too. Finland for instance is the most commieblocked country on earth - 99.5% of all accommodation built in last 30-40 years are commieblocks and many of them espectialy things built in last 10 years are pretty nice.. And Russia with China are moving the same direction - adopting modern technology and most importantly people onse becoming owners of the places they live in treat them entirely different. plus overall increase in wealth means- clean and nicely treated loans, flower bads nicely paved walkways etc etc...

I'd advise against including the trees with the building render...They probably won't match the ingame flora palette and look odd.  Better off using seasonal tree props in LE

Heh, I suppose you're right

Pre-fab's all the rage nowadays, because it saves a lot of time in construction... a company here in Australia's begun selling custom pre-fab homes, and after being created in the factory, only takes two days to be set up on a block of land. And they're just like normal houses.

Cal, they look kind of similar to that set of English oak trees that Ripptide did a while ago. So, I dunno. Something different would be nice when it comes to trees. :P

Callagrafx:
I'm considering it..
But the logic is flawed at best... like those seasonal trees look right in game?! by whose authority, simply because some one was bold enough to put them there and OH HORROR make them even seasonal!!! What a nerve! They don't match the game!!! or do they??
I always can make them props, but then the whole shadow issue. It will loose quite a bit of atmosphere...
But I'm considering making something like Marast's Avenue divider - or more like a boulevard sort of thing...
SA:
yep you're right  those are the very best of Flora ever been made for the game. ever since I've seen them I was looking to recreate the style - perfect marriage of realism with a teaspoon of cartoon... I'll try to match these as close as possible to the color pallet of games default trees. so they may become a bit more olive-brownish

Cycledogg has created a series of "shaded" props that are darker on one side, simulating the shadow of a nearby building. Maybe you can recreate something similar when rendering the trees as separate props. I also agree that flora shouldn't be included in a building model if it's not really necessary. As you said, not everyone might like seasonal trees, but not everyone might like evergreen trees for the very same reason. ;)

I've been known to take the time to place shrubs or flowers into a bat. But only when I know that the buildings LOD will not allow for good placement of other props.

Quotecolor pallet of games default trees. so they may become a bit more olive-brownish

And you're right about the color. The first one I did was a nice bright green then went back and changed it to more olive green after looking at an in game test render.

QuoteI always can make them props, but then the whole shadow issue. It will loose quite a bit of atmosphere...

Probably not as much as you think...and from experience, the render times will dramatically increase too.  The only time I would consider putting trees into a BAT is if I wanted the tree to cast a shadow onto the building like this:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi95.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl151%2Fcallagrafx%2Fschool-assembly-cu-2.jpg&hash=5dc5fabe7225d21405642d67f9d3c06bfd6672cd)

Marcszar:
yep it is... but it wouldn't be problem with export as the background is such that would blend seamlessly  with anything in game...

About trees.. well reasons to include them as such an integration first is very beneficial to the looks of both them or building  - shadows, occlusion, color bleed etc.. none of it would be possible to recreate with similar degree of fidelity with props all the attempts to "fake" it will be very time consuming and still not right, but sometimes an approximation is better than nothing.
I might simply make two versions with trees and without... and I will release assorted trees and groups of trees as well so ti recreate some sort of park and some such.
BTW how many stages of seasonal trees should there be?? is that some sort of preset limit or could there be any??
here is an approximation of autumn:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg141.imageshack.us%2Fimg141%2F7563%2Ffloraautumnyardvk3.jpg&hash=c57a63910c8d8b4ff8f9c37cdb24a9e64198d548)

PS:
Callagrafx - was that a XFrog tree, right?? Or basically a try with opacity mapped leaves??
For that sort of perspective it is way to rarefied... it needs much more leaves, and leaves must be much much smaller. now one is something like a foot across...
For such a shot it would be possible to use RPC trees as well, but I would say that model is still better...
Here is an example of the tree for that sort of visualization. I know it is of a different family, still...: (these are not mine but from one very talented guy - believe it he just stared making trees about a month ago - he is quite an inspiration for me!!!:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dmentor.ru%2Fwip%2Fdbm3_test_38.jpg&hash=15162a75d3754609a40abd3f11830d984d04dbac)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dmentor.ru%2Fwip%2Fdbm3_test_34.jpg&hash=b9405bbd71caaab24008abfa34093a78cd239583)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dmentor.ru%2Fwip%2Fdbm3_test_33.jpg&hash=9a589e0c94312c3b309541cca32d46c03dda6c8c)

and just take a look at these lilacs:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dmentor.ru%2Fwip%2Fdbm3_test_18.jpg&hash=1a9237366678816997ea2433427097e0ecc46079)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dmentor.ru%2Fwip%2Fdbm3_test_20.jpg&hash=36042d8e879ceb3f091f2c24ac4ffcde35b7c7fe)

If flora is modeled and set up right it should affect render times all that much that bunch of trees in my render is adding just 40 seconds so this is
3min21sec
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F4233%2Fyardnotreeso6.jpg&hash=6234d4f89db6c384775a5ede9d1e08aba9fb2695)

4 min 01 sec
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg134.imageshack.us%2Fimg134%2F5760%2Fyardtreeszs6.jpg&hash=c09f753bdd85c5cf2d07126cf478b43770ba275e)

taht is I think you'll agree quite inconsequential in either absolute or even relative terms...

I don't know if you should or not add them in the BAT
but I'm sure I wish to have them as prop for other things :)

i concur with wouanagaine, i think you should place those trees as props in LE ;)

I personally think that the trees (and similar small things) should be rendered as much as possible with the scene and not just placed there in lot editor.  It looks more realistic and nicer (usually also much nicer in the game too).
But those trees are amazing!  you do have a talented freind :-D

SimFox I would respectifully ask if I may become your apprentice. Your skills are absolutely mouth watering. I just can't believe it. You're my hero!

The trees are definitely a keeper.

But release them as seperate props too... they'd look great on a boulevard. :P

@Simfox:  No I use Onyx.  The generated polycounts are sometimes quite hideous and it's a bit of a bitch to control, but it's good software for doing detailed trees. 

Callagrafx:
How do you bring you trees from The "growing" program (Broadleaf and such ) into max??
You should use TreeStorm Plugin - now available for ALL versions of MAX (2008 including) that makes polycount almost irrelevant as if you choose schematic representation there is practically NO new geometry added to your scene! The entire tree is fully procedural and is created only when rendered and only as much as fits into the bucket! So you could have thousands of trees  many million polygons in each with practically NO penalty (object count aside). My trees (one with te house) are about 600 000 polygons each and there are 11 of them and as I've mentioned these almost 7 million polies added just 30seconds to render time - basically just the extra pixels on teh screen. In fact the FG is calculated on the faster that on building (due to material property differences)
The "brocolli" trees are MY ONW creations but the rest  - those big renders are from guy nicked Mentor and he is planning to release a DVD with models (it will be for sale though like say Evermotion models. But for people working with visualization it should be a MUST buy! I haven't seen better quality trees anywhere! Just to keep thins clear and not to grab any fame of the lilacs...

Marcszar:
it is more result of properly set materials, and render then raw computer power.

Autovino:
Well, you know I share that opinion. But I have run into a problem... truNite that add so much to the looks of buildings actually is very detrimental to the look of trees... since all that shape is created by shadow. You remove shadow and you loose the shape... &Thk/(

JosefBrisko:
I have couple of tutorials in various stages of readiness... ;)

Wouanagaine:
Sure!

Quote from: SimFox on October 25, 2007, 03:10:08 AM
JosefBrisko:
I have couple of tutorials in various stages of readiness... ;)

Will this be true finally ....  :-\ ...  &Thk/( ....  ::)  ;)

well it is true... but i just don't find time and also optimal way to finish them... &ops

Come on, this is not a Pulitzer contest  $%Grinno$%  :D :D

Seriously, I think the simpliest, the best, but of course you must be satisfied with the result  ;)

Well, first part of the tutorial is uploaded:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2771.msg84996;topicseen#msg84996

same is available in PDF from here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/65424336/SimFoxBat4MaxTutorial1.pdf (169kb)

it deals with setting Max to work with Bat4Max, Locations of 3dsmax.ini and issues with PlugCFG

Thanks a lot  :thumbsup:

Hello SimFox: Thanks for the Tutorial on how to properly set up Bat4max with 3dsmax 9. While reading it I noticed I don't have The "logarithmic Exposure Control" option available to me. I did a search on how to correct this. An article in the AutoDesk help centre mentions to go into the "InstallSettings.ini" file and change the "useUserProfiles=1" to "useUserProfiles=0" to change the 3dsmax.ini folder from where it is to where it traditionally used to be before max9. I did this and it works however errors appear and the BAT4max script doesn't work properly. Is there another way to get "logarithmic Exposure Control" to function properly?
Thanks.
BTW the tree's look fantastic. Were they created with OnyxGarden?

DF:
Yep these are onyx trees
about Logarithmic Exposure Control just read carefully tutorial. I specifically talk there about why it may be not available (after installation of BAT) and how to get it back. There is really not much point in going for help to Autodesk as you've edited 3dsmax.ini  in the process of installation of BAT they don't know about it and they don't expect it. So they solutions wouldn't be compatible with BAT.

Hello SimFox:
I appologize for bringing this up again but I want to make sure everything is correct concerning the BAT4max setup to avoid problems later :o.
I found my 3dsmax.ini file here: "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Application Data\Autodesk\3dsmax\9 - 32bit\enu",
In your helpful tutorial you quoted:
"In order to insure that both BAT and some components of 3ds Max (like Logarithmic Exposure control, FinalGather presets etc.) are working, copy the entire content of PlugCFG...into BAT folder."
And that is where I put it. My 3dsmax.ini file reads as follows: "PlugCFG=C:\3dsMax9\gamepacks\BAT\" that's where it is now located.
I do have all 8 Rollups installed by BAT4max, that has never been a problem. The problem is the "Logarithmic Exposure control" &hlp.
You also quoted "Also make sure that all the plug-ins from PlugCFG have been initialized:" Perhaps that is where my problem is as I'm not a very tech minded person. How would I "initialize" the Logarithmic Exposure control plugin?
I won't bring this up anymore (at least in YOUR showcase room &ops), but it does seem important it's working correctly %wrd.
Thanks again SimFox for all your help. I appreciate it &apls

Well, DF, you don't need to do anything manually to initialize those plug-ins... They just should be by MAX itself.
I'm a bit confused about this part: "And that is where I put it" You put what where?? did you copy all the files and folders from your PlugCFG into you BAT folder?

Another this is that PlugCFG line in you 3dsmax.ini should read like this:
PlugCFG=C:\3dsMax9\gamepacks\BAT
note there shouldn't be "\" in the end
:thumbsup:

Hey SimFox:
Yes I did a cut and paste and put ALL of the PlugCFG files (the entire folder) into the BAT root folder (gamepacks/bat/plugcfg.ini). I took out the backslash as well ;).
I am curious though, I have been able to load scenes into the game without the Logarithmic Exposure Control plugin. Does it really make a big difference? If it does then I might have to try reinstalling to see if that works.
BTW: I just purchaced Onyxgarden suite with treestorm. It works like a charm :thumbsup: It doesn't seem to slow the scene down too much even with poly count way up. It's very nice ;D
Thanks SF.

I think all those technical questions and answers would have a better place ( more useful for more people) in the tutorial thread.... dont you think so  ;) ?

Hello jeronij. Sure no problem. I have cluttered SimFox' showroom thread enough &ops Sorry Simfox :-[

Ok fair folks!
Here is what I consider the final "beta" of P44T mid-rise.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F1968%2Fp44tlcfinalday1aex6.jpg&hash=be1320c73b381e7bba51fb5fc98912e50c884e61)

I've added some basic roof junk and AC units – architectural scourge that authorities don't seem to dare to tackle. Buildings old and new covered in them like some teen with bad case of acne.
I've also been fielding with foliage color and I think got it pretty close.
This will be a first in a series of both midrise 4 -10 storey high and high-rises – 12-25 storey variants all made from fixed set of elements – my homage to commieblock living courtesy of DSK1 building firm from Moscow. In their native environment mid-rise versions don't exist – shortest one is 12 floors and most are 17-25. But I believe mid-rises on STEX could do with some new additions.
There will be several versions:
Growables:
with trees (not quite sure exactly how many trees, but many)
with NO trees for purists.
I haven't decided about seasonal trees...  Is it necessary?
Landmark:
I think this one should be only available with trees, as it is a sort of ideal version. I'll think of the lot will it be assembled in LOT editor or bated with lighting effects.
Plus in addition to this variants of these trees will be released as props and some sort of "avenue divider/boulevard" lots.
If all will go well (basically night lighting) first shall be ready for scrutinizing/downloads this weekend.

PS
here is a mock-up collage of "in-game" view to judge the foliage color:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg468.imageshack.us%2Fimg468%2F8203%2Fmakingmoneytutorial14sekp7.jpg&hash=98f2e216d09c1b57de462f90010431f3d8a7ac45)

That's looking really good - and pretty similar to many of the new apartment developments going up on former industral sites in many UK towns (though with less AC units, thankfully).

As far as variants are concerned - for orthagonal you only really need a growable; any further variation can come from lotmakers.  If you're going to make a landmark version you may as well go diagonal as they cannot be anything other than ploppable.

WOW simFox its been awhile since i lasted popped up on you and man i really like that apartment complex... something about it seems just right... i just dont know the color, texture, and trees just stunning  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Unless the diagonal version is done on an ortho lot (just for a different orientation)... it'd still be growable. But in any case, it looks great compared to the ingame buildings. It fits.

thank you guys..
here is couple of "postCards" from "location"
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F2245%2Fyardfromroof2ts6.jpg&hash=c4bfe3661abc4d06ca817441d4af2a409c2de4c7)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg70.imageshack.us%2Fimg70%2F2826%2Fyardviewfromroof3zu8.jpg&hash=97f10e429a824fd49f2e804fe0f3fbfd7629291c)
you can see crappy textures and oversized leafs  $%Grinno$%
but such are specifics of modeling for SC4 scale...

and from inside looking out
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg383.imageshack.us%2Fimg383%2F9144%2Finsideoutbc3.jpg&hash=e817e68ff28955ace5e47acbc109f3db6bbe2409)

Showoff :P

But they do look excellent. More than excellent. The details and textures are perfect.

Wow!

This lot is bombin' and burnin' up this project!!!!!!!!  :o  :o

Okay you just made me give up batting !!! Nahh just joking. Love it.

Hope you would consider making the trees into seperat props too, so the trees can be used on other lots.

Hi Simfox ,

I'm following your BAT threads ... your competences are so far above what I understand in BATing that I've always renounced to post something ...
You're so talented and your high demand and integrity as on your work than on the way you speak about it is impressive and command my respect and admiration .

Thank you to be there , at the frontier of what 's possible to reach with SC4 . ;)

Spectacular pictures  :thumbsup:  ¡¡¡


You really know how to deal with the environement and lights settings  ;)  . And the models themselves are really nice and euro looking  &apls

Holy crap, that looks awesome! (the postcard shots)


??? Are those LG airconditioners? :P

Thank you for you kind comments

Jeronij:
thanks, I've tried to twist realism to look more like game. That concerns color scheme, or precisely the sky color influence. Realistically it should be blue a bit closer to turquoise side of blue, while int he game it is rather deep purple. Like in most case perfect recreation isn't quite possible with the method I use, but I don't think it i s even desirable. After all the whole point of using this lighting was to improve and not copy what we had before. I just try to make transition as smooth as I can (technically and artistically - meaning both my ability and my desire).
SA:
Yep they are.. hope I wouldn't be ostracized for alleged product placement. I openly declare that I have NO affiliation with above mentioned company or even own any piece of equipment of any kind manufactured by them  (not even DVD-RW). It was just first picture I came across.. and anyway in-game view it is soooo small that logo couldn't bee seen at all.  $%Grinno$%
BTW I've decided to introduce my own "facade control" and there will be NO AC units hanging on the street side of the building - and hence some extra of them on the yard side since every apartment is at least facing 2 sides all residents can have their units set there.
sc4luv2:
pardon me??

OK
here are first tests of night lighting.
Both are in truNite style, but there is small difference between these two (I know it is still with trees, but still...)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg510.imageshack.us%2Fimg510%2F4180%2Fnightview1nolightssu6.jpg&hash=f2c7f5a7245b1f34d29caa9598af62601462c469)
only windows are giving light
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg128.imageshack.us%2Fimg128%2F9275%2Fnightview1lightszx6.jpg&hash=856be91ec3086b2c81b756952b075ebec5cd575c)
here, however there are "street" lights hidden behind the trees. This will most probably be useful only for wooded version, as whithot foliage it looks a bit odd. or there have to be lamps made, but then it would make loting really complicated...
So what do you say are those "street" lights of any benefit to the look, or should they be scrapped??

PS
there is, however a third option...:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg504.imageshack.us%2Fimg504%2F9603%2Fnightview1lightstransqn7.jpg&hash=29aa571196dc68f0eb00cc27ddb15d8aba7034c4)
Leaves, as everyone know are not solid... that is that do let light through and sort of glow in process. This effect is called translucency. and here it is implemented in the leaf material. Generally foliage is too dense to see it, but effect is there, particularly at the edges and in some thinned out patches, basically as it would occur in real life. Well, not much surprise there, as it is calculated with some basic physics involved

That looks incredible man! How'd you make the windows the way they are?

the windows here are made with night material library - new method available in MAX. I have basic introduction to it in my Forces of Light and the Geometry of Shadows (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=81699&STARTPAGE=2) thread on Simptopolis. Take a look it isn't all that difficult. but to get it work to it's full potential some sort of Global Illumination solution should be used. It let lihgt bounce many times before dying out - hence provide more natural looking image

I definitely prefer the version with translucent leaves; that little bit of glow at the edges makes more difference than you'd expect.

wow this looks awesome, I'd say go with street lights and translucent leaves  ;)

truly amazing work!  &apls

Can you possibly elaborate on the current standing and / or possible release date of the following projects? Thanks.

Quote from: SimFox on October 06, 2007, 05:28:28 PM
Just couldn't resist and doodled new res tower today:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg48.imageshack.us%2Fimg48%2F5402%2Fkt1jb6.jpg&hash=6fa4517939845346cee179357fab9a30397dd86f)

AND

Quote from: SimFox on October 08, 2007, 03:25:28 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F8888%2Fp44tmnorth1ia5.jpg&hash=c85722cac25eb3b017a4e852b19cdb02fcb41d5c)

AND

Quote from: SimFox on October 14, 2007, 03:47:59 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F8439%2Fp44corner2westsw4.jpg&hash=d2a2be8566666fb0999f71d0c542bc5ef05480cc)

AND

Quote from: SimFox on September 11, 2007, 12:19:14 PM(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F9346%2Ffed8001jw4.jpg&hash=926fe33200ba61ad58ec3f0814f0ce0103a01d96) (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9483/2towers2lightsp5.jpg)

AND

Quote from: SimFox on August 22, 2007, 03:21:29 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg480.imageshack.us%2Fimg480%2F3846%2Fcam2stage71280hi9.jpg&hash=d19bbb9b49d324cffa62e433d1424a0d6bfbe05e) (http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3846/cam2stage71280hi9.jpg)

AND especially

Quote from: SimFox on September 26, 2007, 09:46:08 AM(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F2328%2Fmetervsinchav6.jpg&hash=a2bfd227c993816a25b5fa586446ec435ef91bb7)

Thanks :thumbsup:

Oh yeah!!, M, you've got me...
well to the point than...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg48.imageshack.us%2Fimg48%2F5402%2Fkt1jb6.jpg&hash=6fa4517939845346cee179357fab9a30397dd86f)
this one is in quite early stage. Basic walls and windows/colored glass panels distribution is done. What left is Base design. So it will be some time. Can't quite say how long...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F8888%2Fp44tmnorth1ia5.jpg&hash=c85722cac25eb3b017a4e852b19cdb02fcb41d5c)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F8439%2Fp44corner2westsw4.jpg&hash=d2a2be8566666fb0999f71d0c542bc5ef05480cc)
and other variants of P44T/TM series by Moscow DSK1 are basically done. I've the entire set of elements ready, all the materials etc. all is to be done is basically assemble them are export.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F9346%2Ffed8001jw4.jpg&hash=926fe33200ba61ad58ec3f0814f0ce0103a01d96)
Federation is in quite early stage. Also basic and very complex shape of walls (very-very complex bend all over) is don, what left is the design of "domes" and base. as well as decision on central "spire" so I would say couple of months at least.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg480.imageshack.us%2Fimg480%2F3846%2Fcam2stage71280hi9.jpg&hash=d19bbb9b49d324cffa62e433d1424a0d6bfbe05e) (http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3846/cam2stage71280hi9.jpg)
Picture width reduced to 800. Click on the image to get the original one. /RippleJet
Hotel Ukraina is a bit difficult to say. When I just started it I thought it would be very difficult. but it proved actually to be much more easier than i though. But to estimate how long it will take I can not at this point, as it is a very new thing for me.. Only when I get back to ti I could estimate it.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F2328%2Fmetervsinchav6.jpg&hash=a2bfd227c993816a25b5fa586446ec435ef91bb7)
Beijing SilverTower (bizarrely in Mandarin it is called Nanjing silver building) is a bit on hold as I think I may rather soon be able to visit the site to get some more material. I think it's worth the wait a bit. If everything go right it may be ready in time for Xmas.

It is definitely worth the wait, so long as we don't have to wait forever. :P

I'm just very happy that you're still continuing with all of the above and I do hope to see them eventually.

Thanks!!!  ;D

:thumbsup:

Hello SimFox.
It's been a little while sinse I have visited. I have missed alot :thumbsup: Your window reflections and niteliting are very professional looking. I love what you have done with the trees too. Great job.. &apls

QuoteBeijing SilverTower (bizarrely in Mandarin it is called Nanjing silver building) is a bit on hold as I think I may rather soon be able to visit the site to get some more material. I think it's worth the wait a bit. If everything go right it may be ready in time for Xmas.

Simfox if you get that out in time for Christmas, It will make me day wow.... Its also great to hear the status of the other projects that you have been doing and thank you -M- for poking into that wonderful question, Cheers - pat

QuoteYep they are.. hope I wouldn't be ostracized for alleged product placement. I openly declare that I have NO affiliation with above mentioned company or even own any piece of equipment of any kind manufactured by them  (not even DVD-RW). It was just first picture I came across.. and anyway in-game view it is soooo small that logo couldn't bee seen at all.

You're not gonna get into trouble or anything, it just grabbed my attention and shows just how much detail you're throwing in. :P

I'd love to see you do multiple colour variants of the tower that M posted (which was one of your older models, I think).

Hi, SimFox ....
Excellent Moscow models - MGU, new serial houses ...
I like it ! 

Silur, tsa, tsa...  $%Grinno$%
how could you mistaken Украина for МГУ??

well I've tried but apparently failed to release the set of P44 variants before today... and this evening I'm leaving for the middle kingdom for 2 weeks.
I should have gone and done just one building at the time instead of going for the whole set.... Anyway I may still release 25 storey tower. I'm also thinking of giving to public ready SC4 models of some so that people could play with loting them if they chose to.

Simfox be safe on your trip OK!!!  Also i wouldnt mind pulling off a lotting job for some of the models, or just download Marius's lot instead lol... Either way see you soon - pat

I hope you are having a good time on your trip  ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg69.imageshack.us%2Fimg69%2F6950%2Fhappynygn8.jpg&hash=d1d722a9d73c545c4c80d6f528abc913204f15ac)

Thanks and Happy 2008 for you too  :thumbsup:

I hope this will be a year full of health, money and great buildings    ;D

Ok I'll dusting off one by one my projects and moving them to new software and settings.
So first in Non-Asian bunch is  Federation Tower


It is in it's accurate sizes... But seems so big. I wonder should 1.33 stretch be applied to it or should I just skip it this time...

it's... well. very big.  Looks good.  I think that the 133% streach might be overdoing it.  Do the larger/taller buildngs even have that streach?

The only way to find out, is to Render it, and see what it looks like.

Can you do a preview Render, like with GMax?

BOW DOWN  &apls &apls &apls &apls

Quote from: RebaLynnTS on February 23, 2008, 02:40:09 PM
The only way to find out, is to Render it, and see what it looks like.

Can you do a preview Render, like with GMax?

Actually this is pixel per pixel accurate size - meaning this is exactly what you gonna have in game at Zoom5.

Yes it is possible to do previews in MAX.
The scripted feature of BAT doesn't work, but through some calculations and trials I've come up with way to get preview.
It's quite simple really. In order to keep same scale render from each camera of the rig (zoom1-zoom5) has to be done with certain WIDTH of output window. Height could be what ever you need to accommodate the model. It doesn't affect scale. Also Zoom5 and Zoom4 cameras are located in the same spot so the view from them differes only in size (Zoom4 is 2 times smaller than Zoom5) so for very large models when it wouldn't fit into 793 pix output window you can choose Zoom4 camera and set output window to 1596 pix width. This way you'll get exact Zoom5 view.

Thank you for the reply ... I really like learning new things. Your work is, in a word, amazing.

Well While waiting for the clear data on Federation central tower/spire I've quickly whipped up it's neighbor - Naberezhnaja Tower C - currently Europe's tallest building (waiting for it's numerous neighbors to surpass it in next few months).

Here are night views at zoom 4:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg444.imageshack.us%2Fimg444%2F9086%2Fnightrotationsz4hs1.jpg&hash=54bee843b57eaec6fbdc152f3f354f1882921e53)

Night lights are just stunning  :thumbsup:

What can I say, but WOW!

Oh simfox don't you get tired of making such pretty things?  :P

Quote from: toxicpiano on March 08, 2008, 04:55:03 PM
Oh simfox don't you get tired of making such pretty things?  :P

Yeah, make something ugly! :P

I love the night-lighting on it.

While bogged down with not so interesting job of putting the roof junk on top Of Naberezhnaja tower, my eye was caught by this recentrly approved by Moscow mayor piece of architecture (by Tegrani):

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi040.radikal.ru%2F0803%2F36%2F9fe2c0480949.jpg&hash=7ef5db21a7a82ea4d1a6463a3886e93391d4bc7a)

this is just one of the ... well not sure what to call it... module(?) out of 5:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchi.ru%2Ffiles%2Fimg%2Fnews%2Flarge650%2F20065.jpg&hash=85db504a11cc345b8b095885055ce1a937b005f5)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchi.ru%2Ffiles%2Fimg%2Fnews%2Flarge650%2F20067.jpg&hash=544c4fdef473d3737fc8157f3bc00e4cdcc04928)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchi.ru%2Ffiles%2Fimg%2Fnews%2Flarge650%2F20053.jpg&hash=96ac2e8300d3dd1d6f36db96d06eb8078ab328e6)


I really love it, but the size may prove a problem. It is huge - 280 meters across (about 18 squares)

So what do you think?? Does it have a place in SC4 or is it out of it's scale?

I think ist has a place in Sc4. Every new eccentric building for sc4 is a good building. I think that there aren't many of those buildings avaiable at the moment!

i would leave it at a single unit... more than that i think would be overdoing it.

It reminds of the city from Logan's Run.

Russians and you can do anything :P

I'd say putting it into sc4 should be possible (contrary to my beliefs many many months ago  $%Grinno$%) but designing a lot for this wouldn't be easy, and it might feel out of place just because of its size and architectural style.  but it would be interesting nontheless.

I think the whole thing belongs into SC4 and I would love to have to complex for my city

First time in this thread and it's amazing! poor pixels what they have to go through to produce such great results :thumbsup:

The night lights on Naberezhnaja Tower are  :o awesome job, can't wait for the release!

Are the broad leaf trees out yet? I'm sure I've seen them in an MD or picture contest somewhere and could it be that I have missed their release?

Nabrezhnaja Tower C is about complete...

I may make two more versions - one of the entire complex with two smaller towers, and another one on elevated base with underground parking.
But for now this seem to be it.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi047.radikal.ru%2F0803%2F3d%2F4e1559e02833.jpg&hash=d88d76f3f52a1fbb1a8821d4a36051e08583a8c0)

So any opinions/suggestions??

Simfox what can one say but OMG WOW!!!!!!

Wow, awesome model, but I think the window reflections are too busy - they draw the attention away from the model and onto the reflected images. Just a personal feeling.

Fred

Yes, excellent model there! Wonderful work! :thumbsup:

Well, reflexions here are as integral part of the final thing as modeling. In modern architecture the properties of the materials are often strongest expressive point.
However, this time I did actually reduced reflectivity of the glass to the minimum (just tinted uncoated glass).

here are results:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi047.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F46%2Fb379ab26830f.jpg&hash=ba4d39e5318d8f2b821b5564477fa87db1eceff2)

and night views as a bonus:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi003.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F02%2Fc98fe6ae5510.jpg&hash=53d8d1f7bd21f8326bb3be837a76bf7eb90c32f3) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi030.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F9a%2F16f9d3dff7e7.jpg&hash=1e056b774e82897684040adde12d1492bc535028)

OMG!!!!!! THOSE NIGHTLIGHTS!!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o

*falls off chair*

OMG OMG Simfox WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a beauty.

If I were a skyscraper, I'd be all over it.  ::)



Anyway, what's with the wacky base? Any particular reason for doing that?

Quote from: SimFox on April 03, 2008, 08:24:55 PM
Well, reflexions here are as integral part of the final thing as modeling. In modern architecture the properties of the materials are often strongest expressive point.

This is true for RL, however, the game usually has far reflective "glass". But your latest approach looks excellent so far. The night shots are truly fantastic, it really looks like you can count the number of offices behind the windows. :)

IMO, this second one looks alot better.  And your night lights are amazing.  Great work.
Robin  :thumbsup:

ORALES!!!  :o that building its sooo impressive!
whats the reflection texture youre using? the night lights looks perfect but the day preview makes it something odd with it, no sure what about, but anyway doesn't matter

keep those great buildings coming  &apls &apls :thumbsup:

edit: as for day render maybe you could use lees saturation, and maybe some more opacity... but again not sure  ::)

Bashnja na Naberezhnoj C is pretty much completed. It has been exported and now just moding is let to do:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi031.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F4b%2Fa4a886e2513c.jpg&hash=643b2b8e47443b5fa61a6001086089de391d0907)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi036.radikal.ru%2F0804%2Feb%2F01bdc880d531.jpg&hash=6e9f006fb716de8ca956c4934ccc5bd1fc2da43e)

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This is a version with bated lot. I did it because of the design I had in mind - it would be impossible to recreate it in LOT Editor, particularly lighting effects.

I think I did pretty decent job on matching lighting  and hue of the game, both day:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi001.radikal.ru%2F0804%2Fd9%2F937d26400918.jpg&hash=41d3827dfd0dc758534500a2f2ba87db8dde6fc4)
and night:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi025.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F69%2F704df79fe99b.jpg&hash=dfbbe9cc0bbca0883e98083382d7fe3221af3681)

however, not everything peachy. if you look closely at the edge of the lot there is odd shadow. it is there, I'm sure, because the lot extends below 0 level. LODs however are starting from 0. And it looks fine in the Lot Editor. But in game these weird shadows appear. Does anyone know how to deal with them?

It's because you've BATed the base...but LODs set at z=0 are correct otherwise you'd have the underside showing.  Not sure there's a render solution, but a quick solution would be to add either fences or walls around the LOT to hide the join  :thumbsup:

Well that too, but I meant no the "joint" thingie... but that sort of "shadow" it is on the sidewalk outside the lot, I don't think adding somethin to the lot will fix it, however I'll try...

It almost looks like a drop shadow.  Does the mesh extend below the ground plane but the LODs sit on ground zero?  If they don't, try extending them down, it may get rid of the part that the game is trying to create a shadow for.

yeah, that thing...

Yes mesh does extends below 0, - the poll bits do...
If I extend LODs bellow ground level, I think then it (the part bellow ground) will show up in game, and it shouldn't really.
I remember  this problem has been sighted already. And if I remember correctly some solution had been found... I just don't remember where and by whom...
Also there some "underground" buildings. Some Japanese and also PEG, if memory serves me right has some underground plaza or shopping center or something along these lines. And those do look fine in game.

I think it is the building foundation that is showing up. You can make a quick one (a box will do the job) with a matching colour (with the model's ground) and test it  ;)

You can also try setting the MaxSlopeAllowedBeforeBuildingFoundation lot property to a value higher than 0.

Quote from: SimFox on April 11, 2008, 07:01:00 AM
yeah, that thing...

Yes mesh does extends below 0, - the poll bits do...
If I extend LODs bellow ground level, I think then it (the part bellow ground) will show up in game, and it shouldn't really.
I remember  this problem has been sighted already. And if I remember correctly some solution had been found... I just don't remember where and by whom...
Also there some "underground" buildings. Some Japanese and also PEG, if memory serves me right has some underground plaza or shopping center or something along these lines. And those do look fine in game.

Sorry, I re-read my post and it sounded like I was saying to extend the LODs...but what I meant was extend the base.   &ops  The underground plazas were Deadwoods and I think he simply had a LOD at z=0 extending up, with the mesh below the ground plane to give the impression of depth.

Quote from: callagrafx on April 11, 2008, 07:11:39 AM
Sorry, I re-read my post and it sounded like I was saying to extend the LODs...but what I meant was extend the base.   &ops  The underground plazas were Deadwoods and I think he simply had a LOD at z=0 extending up, with the mesh below the ground plane to give the impression of depth.

Hm, I'm even more confused now... First of all The base is already extending below the ground (0) that is exactly what causing this issue. How extending it farther will fix this?

After tinkering with the issue I came to these conclusions:
The nature of the problem is that although the 3sd (anagram of 3ds??), which is basically LOD, exists only above the ground and is textured with images from the render and seen as a structure in game. But the actual render includes also below ground parts. Not seen as such they are still used by the game to create "shadow" so they extend in the direction opposite to normal shadow in the game. It seems that this is inevitable process - just game mechanics are written this way. To fix it one must simply remove all the the imagery that extends bellow the ground and out of the lot. Or, to be exact mask it. Cause I believe it is a mask that is used for shadow creation. It is simple skewed and stretches some...

Some time ago we - me and JasonCW tried to fix know issue with discrepancy of the shadow direction between BAT and the game - i believe it is a biggest blunder of the graphics team of the developer. We have found the properties that are responsible for the position of the sun in game. "Sun" could be raised or lowered over the horizon  altering the length of the shadow. It could be mover around the center of the "world" as well. That would change the direction of the shadow. But here comes problem. Shadow direction is not dependent on that value. I guess it was first approach of making shows in game - real 3d approach, that later was changed for 2d approach, but the property remained in the DAT as vestige of sorts.
To fix that shadow issue it is necessary to find property that controls the skew factor. So far it wasn't found, or at least I'm not aware of such a discovery.
So if anyone by the chance knows of such let me know.

As far as I understand from experimenting with shadows, you are correct.  Shadows, I think (and am 90% sure), come from the fsh alpha files that are perpendicular to the current view.  The alpha is distorted and skewed so that it lands on the ground.  There are some exemplar files in the simcity DAT that can edit/distort this and edit the shadow, which is a mask on the ground that makes the ground look darker.  I have seen the ability to lengthen the shadows and to shorten them by moving the sun, but not to change their direction... which is logical based on how they are derived.

Moving a sun, in the real world, will change how a shadow looks like off of a building, not just by simple distortions such as skewness and rotation, but it will change the shape.  This is because as the sun moves, some parts of the building open up and become more passable for the light and some close up for the light (tell me if this doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain better).  This requires full 3d information to calculate how the light will pass and not pass through the model.  The game cannot do that.  It is limited to a simple alpha map and it cannot accurately change/distort the shadows to match the building.  Here is a crude example:
How the game will calculate shadows, approx. (top view)
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How the lighting rig will calculate shadows, approx. (top view)
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How the game will calculate shadows, skewing and rotating them, to attempt to match the lighting rig shadow, approx (top view)
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Because you don't have true 3d information in the s3d file (only a limited lod with 4 views slapped on), no amount of skewing or rotating will be able to correctly show the shadows.  And this is only 90% sure, because that is how sure I am that the shadows are calculated this way (using the fsh alpha files from an adjacent view).  Hope that makes sense for my skepticism in fixing the shadow problem in the game (thought the game directly).

But a fix for your problem, Sim Fox, would just to not let the fsh files extend beyond the lod (or below the lod), like you said, this is what is most likely causing your problem.

btw, thank god for the new spell checker :-p

LoL Auto I know gotta love the new spell checker and Simfox I love this ingame thank you so very much!!!

next project, probably...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi001.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F90%2F31b8ff775a30.jpg&hash=3d8ec5337d96bd88196f183c22557f9608f99aa9)

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I'm liking the look of this! Is it say, going to be governmental in any way? :P

The building was built in 1967 and used to be a headquarter of SEV (Comecon - the commie analog of EEC). Nowadays it serves as a office of the mayor of Moscow until new huge Moscow Gov tower will be finished.
I guess some sort of gov office would fit perfectly, but I'm not sure what could it be and how would it fit into game mechanics. Do you have any idea?

It could be modded similar to the Maxis Beaurea of Beauracracy, or simply a functional landmark.

This one looks awesome, I could never do those kind of walls.

OMG WOW Simfox that is just stunning!!!

Absolutely incredible.  I love these huge complex skyscrapers.
Robin  :thumbsup:

Petty spitefulness has risen it's head here on SC4Devotion as well! Oh lordy....

Just noticed that my thread had been "downgraded" to 3 stars. Not that I care, but still an interesting phenomenon... :D

Quote from: SimFox on April 24, 2008, 01:33:47 AM
Petty spitefulness has risen it's head here on SC4Devotion as well! Oh lordy....

Just noticed that my thread had been "downgraded" to 3 stars. Not that I care, but still an interesting phenomenon... :D

There are thread ratings?  ()what()

It is up in the right corner... just above first message on the page.

Anywho... back to the latest project.
Here are first in-game shots of SEV and a sketch of a lot:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi040.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F18%2F61aa065f10c8.jpg&hash=8fdb256906fd071733db90adedb25861d118c6e4)

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This is my first attempt to model for a LOT, meaning that some sizes and proportions are altered to fit 16m grid of the game...

Does it look small?? Too short??

This is looking great.  Maybe on the left side you could add a small building, say 5 to 8 more floors high, just to add some character.  ;)
Robin  &apls

Quote from: Diggis on April 24, 2008, 02:11:19 AM
There are thread ratings?  ()what()

That is what I was thinking....the thread shows 4 stars at the top of the thread

Moving along...

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Window cradle's a nice touch  :thumbsup:

Now I need someone to stuff in there :-)

here are south and north views:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi013.radikal.ru%2F0804%2F71%2F909fa97a2a31.jpg&hash=fe3d9f0e31c10a5a547bbbae84df4cb0ef71dd5d)

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Wow.....that is coming along very nicely.  I like it alot.
Robin  &apls &apls

That's a Splendide BAT you've got here, SimFox :thumbsup:!

Kinna remember me the Berlin's Palace of the Republic that have been BAT a long time ago (a wonderfull BAT ;))

Both of them will fit nicely in a European town modern district :satisfied:.

Oh excellent work! This BAT would fit nicely nearly anywhere I can think of, and will be one of the few skyscrapers I'll add to my city.  :thumbsup:

awesome building, looks very real.  I like the base of the building a lot.   &apls

I'm pleases at all your praises, keep 'em coming! :thumbsup:

On a serious note; the building is largely done. And so is texturing:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi036.radikal.ru%2F0804%2Fad%2F204bf10440ea.jpg&hash=597d02e7041fcdc8f4c709b53a8a275a64c1cecc)

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However I still have one piece that I don't know how to approach... that circular thing right of the main tower... In real life it has abstractish, typical 60s mural/mosaic on it. Unfortunatelly I don't have photos with res high enough to pick it up from or even to use as source for reconstruction. And I really strongly think it has to be mural like thing there. So if any one know of some such thing from 60s, has good picture etc, knows of pictures.. please let me know!

I've tried to assemble something along similar the lines of original mural in Illustrator. Here are preliminary results:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi023.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fdb%2Fe8916eaba21d.jpg&hash=f35513ee502fc9aaa73a9bf8bdc40156994dee34)

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So far it is just a plain color... Original is sort of Florentine mosaic (made of various marbles). I'll see if I could recreate that . On the other hand I sort of like these bold clear colors, they kind of spike up the thole thing...

QuoteI sort of like these bold clear colors, they kind of spike up the whole thing

I totally agree with that point of view :thumbsup:, althrough I don't know the original design made on the RL buiding.

Excellent work, as usual  :thumbsup:

 ::)

Thanx!

OK, I think I'm done with mural/mosaic:


So what do you think??
Although now there is another issue... The opposite number (thing on the left of the tower on first picture)... I though it to be white... but how does it looks now with the mosaic in place?

It looks OK, and I like this Version of the mosaic.  &apls

SimFox,
This model looks amazing.
The antennia thingy looks too white.  Other than that I think it looks perfect.
One little question.  Will you be making the lods so that props can be placed in the court yard?  If so that would be that much more incredible.

Robin  &apls

Hey Simfox the building is fantastic and I think Robin is right about the Antenna, it seems a bit bleached white

Nice work on the mosaic! The preliminary version looked a bit like something you'd expect in Japan, rather than in Russia, but the final version is great! I agree about the white antenna thingy, and I also think the white enclosure of the helipad structure could be a bit more dirty as well. Apart from that: Wow! The glass reflections look fantastic, and I really like the tiled wall texture. You don't see window washer cranes everyday, since most BATters seem to forget them.

Awesome work SimFox, this building will definitely have a place in the next city I build! That marble effect really added to the mural.

Fred

Andreas! you're soo right! I can't believe I didn't see it (the preliminary "mosaic" looking Japanese that is.) Actually it gives me few ideas! Great for you to notice it.

About antennae thingie... well it is a bright white... I sort of want to keep it this way. It only stresses the differences between textures and surfaces. But I'll try some alternatives...

Rooker:
About LODs... Well not sure... I don't want a clattered lot for this structure. It is all about the clear lines and surfaces. So, I originally thought about just loan there. Actaully the LOT for it is pretty much compete, or at least I thought so. The one I have posted in-game shots of earlier model. But I'll see how things will go.
Problem doing very elaborate LODs may be quite detrimental for the game. On the other hand I don't expect this building being in multiple copies in the city. It is to specific for that role. I actually though to make it into Plop only version, something like some Civic structure.

I'll start night lighting. Generally along the Lines of Naberezhnaja Tower. If things go ring it may be available this weekend...

MOD EDIT:Corrected misspelling :P

Thank you for this high quality buiding :thumbsup:.

 &apls &apls &apls

amazing job! the mural looks great

Nite test

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OMG !!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o. Am I dreaming ()what() :o?

Another stunning example of how far beyond the original game SC4 graphics can be pushed.   I love the results you're getting with this nightlighting technique  &apls

SEV building has been uploaded to STEX
come and get it:

---

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I'll post the lot on LEX Lot candidacy and hopefully get it CAMeLOTed as well.

I got me SEV thats for sure!!! thank you Simfox!!!  &apls

welcome to page 16 and also 300 comments in your thread here!!!

Great to see SEV released - just need to find a prime location to site it.

As far as CAM goes, unless you want to make SEV growable (which doesn't seem appropriate) you don't need a CAM version.

Zero:
Yeah, I also think it isn't right building fro poping up here and there as a skinjob cylon... $%Grinno$%

 &apls great to see this available for download, amazing job you did with this one.

:)

Hi SimFox,
     I don't comment very much on these treads but I have been watching your work and progress for some quite time and I just wanted to say that you do such a wonderful job on both creating and making these buildings look so real and beautiful. Thank you very much.  :) I would also to ask you when are you going to realease your other fine BATs and will you be making the building called "The Russian Tower"? That would be such a neat building to see and espesicaly if you Mod it. Thanks again for such wonderful BATs. &apls &apls &apls ;D

do you mean Russia Tower by Foster? I'm thinking about it... But it is so huge. at base it would need to be 10x10 at least or even bigger. I'm not quite sure if it could be exported at all... I mean the LODS from GMAX.

"Russia Tower by Foster"  :o :o :o :o :thumbsup:

Quote from: SimFox on May 11, 2008, 10:28:28 AM
do you mean Russia Tower by Foster? I'm thinking about it... But it is so huge. at base it would need to be 10x10 at least or even bigger. I'm not quite sure if it could be exported at all... I mean the LODS from GMAX.

It could be exported in "blocks", similar to how the image files are cut up into 256x256 pieces, you can cut up the model into 8 models and combine them in LE... but it would be a pain in the  $%Grinno$% to do...

The Burj tower (~1100m) has been done like this some time ago by a japonese BATer. One Lot but 5 downloads to have all the blocks the lot needs to build the tower.

Building the "Russian Tower" can be done. Just like ame said, the Burj Dubai is 12x11. I even have found BATs bigger than that. I am pritty sure it can be done. :thumbsup:

Oh, by the way, it realy should not be that hard of a BAT to make either. It looks like a pritty easy shape to BAT. :thumbsup:

about making it in parts... with all due respect those examples aren't on the level of quality i would strive for... Making something just for the sake of size, at the expense of quality isn't my game.

About simplicity of the structure.. same thin here. It all depends on the quality of approach. yes it is a pyramid, simple... but if to follow the real design and its ingenious NO support columns structure supported by lateral fins - then it is a whole new ball game. Only simple part here is that that building consist of 3 identical parts, so it would be enough to made one and clone it 3 times. Still making the lattice of a 612m tall tower that where no 2 floors are same(!) ain't all that quick. I remember that calculation for making lattice of one side of Federation that is a dwarf next to Russia Tower did take about 10 minutes - just geometry creation...

Anyway I'll put it on my to do list...

Lotting it wouldn't be easy either...

SimFox, everything I've seen so far from you is Superhight Quality, nobody will complain if you don't want to BAT with lower standards :thumbsup:.

Thank you for putting this one on your list since I think it has one of the best design (with the Gerkin, the Chelsea Tower, BoC, Torre Agbar, SWFC and a few others.. ::)).

TY mmorales2 for the pic :satisfied:, I love it!

well... I'm back home and here are shots of Russia Tower "feasibility study"

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi032.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F17%2F25d966298b72.jpg&hash=22fa1756b206bf493563ad69fa0588610cec3502)

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OMG :o!! That's huge!! SEV and Bashnja na Naberezhnoj C seem to be tiny compare to that amazing BAT! What is the size of the LOT ? (9x9?) I hope you will find a way to push this project until the end &hlp!! The grey draft you show on your picture already looks cool because of its nice shape :thumbsup:.

Amazing. Just Plain Amazing. Fox, you truly know how to BAT. I know the Russia Tower you BAT'd is just in its starting stages but I am telling you now that I am very impressed. I hope you continue with it and finish it. That would be a loverly adition to SimCity and Fans. How long did it take you to BAt? Was it hard to BAT? And what lot size is it? Well, good job and hope to hear from you soon.  &apls &apls &apls &apls ;D

Sorry, misspelling: LOVELY :thumbsup: Im not very good at spelling :-[LOL

looks cracking.... the largest LOD ive ever got to export in one go was 160x160x624m so it should export fine however, a highly detailed model can bring this down eventually. good luck.

Thank you, guys!

To get it to this stage took about an hour or so, but that is a very preliminary sketch. I made it to test the size for exportability and to see how it would relate to the game. It is  now in it's accurate life size (height of 612m, and width of the ray of 78m). I guess there will be no need to apply 1,3 stretch factor to this one. In this size it is perfectly exportable. Naturally as it will get more detailed it will take longer to render, but I don't think it will come to the point of being a no go problem. LODs now are quite tight. They would allow to stick it on 9x8 lot. But since tower isn't centered it sort of overhangs. I didn't center it because it would be easier to model it in it's current positing (with the axis of the central core at 0.0). As I mentioned earlier the tower consists of 3 identical Rays so it would be sufficient to model just one and instance it. Probably only blinds should be made unique to each one.
But in the final I think I'll make LODS large a bit to avoid that ugly seesaw effect at the edge. It is there because LODs and in effect 3DS files are not anti-aliased in GMAX. Giving them some berth should hide this fact and anyway tower of this size needs some space around it.

But while modeling this test version I've run into first problematic situation. Different renderings of the tower have different (5 or 6) number of those weight barring edges on the sides of each ray. so I'm not entirely sure what to do. Plus precise spacing of them is also a bit foggy. Should I for instance space them so that angles between them be same (nicer effect at the bottom) or go with half rule?

Anyway I'll keep digging. At least now I know that it is doable...

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latest set of renderings

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg206.imageshack.us%2Fimg206%2F4030%2F41734syr0.jpg&hash=7b7a2b891e3a5b01d6b7ac679f6d76d4722372ad)

night shot

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F8326%2F41733spk7.jpg&hash=b2bdbb481b189b9fa5a9b7de169824cbf7fef28a)

detail of the top

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F9345%2F41732sja0.jpg&hash=b76eab450fafae5d5bd22db3551dd37c8f4ed44a)

interior of the base pyramid,

all the recent renderings point to five internal fingers over four (not including the edges and pyramid boundary)

There are currently only four stage 15 CO§§§ CAMeLots (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950) available:

• Rubik3's WTC
• DuskTrooper's NDEX PanPacific
• Paulvmontfort's PVM2
• 2ch.net's Velacosma

I believe we are seeing the birth of the fifth one! &apls

Wow that building looks stunning! Looks kind of like something out of nineteen eighty four though.

This BAT should be a : "every reason for getting CAM"
As already said, Amazing (so far).

This does look fantastic SimFox and it would be great to have a fifth stage 15.
Robin  &apls

TY mightygoose for those amazing pics ::).

Talking about CAM, a plop is soooooo simple :D....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi040.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F6a%2Fe936438ffce3.jpg&hash=b0b5a3fac51bf49e5bd82cb75d04805a4328b0cc)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi007.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F14%2F985c8d8e302b.jpg&hash=a25c03cfeaa9df6b6ef4686a4f88e8dc62c53730)

 :o
That looks incredible!  &apls &apls
I can't wait for this to be released!

Wow, this looks great!

Though, I don't know why, but it lacks a certain presence in its upper floors, it's quite insubstantial, in the sense the edges of the glass aren't well-defined...


Oh yeah, and I can't wait to see the nightlights on this baby.

im assuming that although you have put in the windows, you are going to add the triangular shapes on the ends of the wings and also the remaining mech floors...but apart from that great progress so far, btw are the blinds generated using some kind of average deviation array tool? like you make one, give max a 40% height variance and then array?

"Triangular shapes" - the steel Chevron Braces providing rigidity for the tips of the winds are actauly there. There are not outside but inside glass curtain wall. if you look carefully you can still make them out:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi009.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fff%2F83441d61c68a.jpg&hash=ccd5fe4af1b8c59e339525ac02a1b20f43c4cbb1)

Of course on the observation deck levels they are clearly seen. I might still make glass lighter so that internal structures could be better seen...
Yep on the topic of blinds...

 &apls &apls &apls

amazing !!!!!

can't wait to see this available for download, I think I'll need to install CAM just to have this.

you sir are INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1, thanks for sharing your crazy creations with us

Joe

now that is what im talking about...

Beautiful. Im sorry that didn't come out right. BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!! $%Grinno$% Wonderful work Fox. Do you have any idea what you r going to do for the base? But thank you for making such wonderful BATs.  &apls &apls &apls &apls

Base?? I'm not sure what you're talking about... basically the tower is "baseless"... Or do you mean lot?
I'll be making underground shopping mall  though...

I know it is Baseless right now, but I was wondering if you have any ideas right now. An underground shopping mall sounds very cool! How big do you think the base is going to be? I would like to say again, Nice Work :thumbsup: &apls &apls

---

I know it is Baseless right now, but I was wondering if you have any ideas right now.

That didn't come out right. Do you have an idea what you plan on making it look like. Ex: Gardens around the building, many trees, etc. :)

MOD EDIT: Combined a double post, please use the modify button, rather than double posting - Fred

mmorales2
I still don't get what do you mean by base... sorry. The tower is as is, it will just rise from the ground the way it is currently do. Nothing more comes "around" it. The mall is extending underground withing the limits of the "pyramid" you see. So as such it would be seen only at night. Original also will be linked with underground station. So I may consider to do it as well to help with the traffic this large structure will generate. Real thing will be housing around 25000 people in various capacities - it is a multifunctional complex with offices, apartments and hotel. But I guess for the game it should be just limited to office. And the retail at the base... but it wouldn't be all that large as tower is constructed right next to what is gonna be biggest mall in Europe and 2nd or third larges in the world (Four Seasons Mall) and it gonna be ready sometimes next year.


Here is a little progress:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi004.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Feb%2Fd591222c507d.jpg&hash=b10a51419085d9a5966166674615a095a9173161)

Where is Russia getting all their money to do these massive projects? :P

I suppose it's probably one of those super-building fads that seem to be gripping the Middle East... :P

Love the detail on the base, though...

yeah the question of money... where do they come from and where to the run out to!?!

First of all, all that construction is done with private money.

Situation that Marcszar described isn't quite accurate anymore. Development had spilled over from Moscow and even all so called Million cities (those with population larger then 1 million) to midsized and even smaller cities. Given that vast majority of population in the country lives in such places it has become mass process, not some isolated cases. Naturally there are still some depressed areas and there will always be some, Russia is just too big for situation to be even, but situation today is radically different then say 7 years ago when there was Moscow and nothing round it.

Investment (foreign one) does play noticeable role in Russian economy. But it isn't quite a source of grow, rather the consequence of one. Here are numbers for last 3 years:
2005 53,62 billion US$
2006 55,109 billion US$
2007 120,2 Billion US$

And that in times when all you can read/hear in western mass media how bad situation is. And how wrong Putins government had been conducting affairs. Of course it is mostly due to policies of the state in oil and gas extraction industries. Western multinationals had been methodically and continuesly pushed out of this sector. Well, their loss. But situation isn't quite different say in Norway. As a result of such policies most of that FDI nowadays flows in other sectors of economy working to achieve Putin's goal of diversification of the economy.
And here are numbers to illustrate the trend - industrial output growth last April (year 2008  to year 2007)
Overall industrial output 9,2%
Overall manufacturing 14,9%
   passenger cars 28,8%
   cement 11,2%
Mining industries (including oil, gaz, metals) 0,6%
well numbers suggest policies are working... economy seems to grow in the right direction

Record food prices had given russian agriculture huge boost as well. April's (again year on year) meat production is up 18,9%

Oil prices on the other hand is a mixed bag... Positive effect of those nowadays is dubious. Unlike some gulf states Russia not just world's larges producer but also one of the largest consumer of the stuff. Plus, traditionally russian industries and transport weren't geared to be energy efficient. So high prices although filling countries coffers with piles of foreign cash do have negative effect on overall output of other sectors of economy. And even by itself such huge influx of foreign exchange reserves (that at about 525 billion US$ are 3rd larges in the world after China and Japan) is  making governments task of keeping Rubble appreciation under control and managing inflation quite difficult.

Speaking about Moscow itself, City budget revenue for the year 2008 are projected on level of 1 452 000 000 rubles (about 60,5 billion US$) -about the level of budget revenue of NYC (Tokyo still has higher revenue).
So on the financial side things aren't half bad. If only same could be said on ability to make those piles of cash work efficiently. Here Russia still has a very long way to walk, but some improvements. Large scale investments into country infrastructure are already on the way. RRW (Russian Railways) is spending in excess of 30 billion US$ in the next 5 years on a new rolling stock  and in excess of 140 Billion US$ on network upgrade and expansion for instance.

Unlike other developing markets growth in Russia is not directly linked to the western consumption. It is very much domestic consumption that pushes the economy. As such it may prove more resistant to world economic downturn. Private incomes in Russia still growing fast and faster then Country GDP. In next 3 years they are expected to grow 30% and 22,9%. Meaning that private consumption will become even stronger force in the economy.

All that doesn't mean that situation is all peachy. But it explains the money.

And here is something to lighten up tall that political economics:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbahus.3ka.mipt.ru%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2Fpublic%2F22.05.08%2Fenergy_115136.jpg&hash=993580f3da8ecdc78e96ff755a46b856dc1aa1d2)

For those completely unaware of Cyrillic HET -no, ДА - yes

Yesterday, I fill the tank of my car : 4,19 USD/gallon :o!!! As a result, I guess Russia will have more and more new big and nice building projects in the next years !!!

And after seeing the last pic of your BAT, I hope you'll be there :thumbsup:. TY for the Quality of your BATs and for the choices you've made so far &apls.

Quote from: SimFox on May 23, 2008, 04:40:50 AM
Western multinationals had been methodically and continuesly pushed out of this sector. Well, their loss. But situation isn't quite different say in Norway.

Oh, we're just taxing the oil corporations to death (78%), else we're not so picky about who pays us. That a ConocoPhillips engineer meant this was communism; well, which country has no state debt? $%Grinno$%

The good thing, however, is that this "fad" is paid for by private money, and not just something done for the prestige of it (that's left to the military ::) ). Indeed the Russian started to implement some of the same models as Norway, instead of letting it all flow down into the pockets of the oligarchs, or be spend it like a headless chicken, like some countries have done in the past.

seeing all that plane modeling going on I've decided to try my hand in it as well...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi012.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fcf%2Fe8953bf094da.jpg&hash=170642ebfe8bad0061d71d98d5ce05a202bff46a)

The chopper definitely pwns! :thumbsup:

You're using the same method I use to model planes! ;D  Looks very nice!

is there other way to do it in MAX? Nurbs?

anywho here it is:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi034.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fb9%2F8b50deb44327.jpg&hash=d5380bbbe2962167bff1f73dc653ae8575637b06)

mi-26

PS
btw should any stretch be applied to the planes/helicopters for SC4?

Hey Fox. That is pritty cool helicopter you made there. :thumbsup: Do you plan on using this as the Hospital helicopter or Police helicopter? Oh, and how is the Russia Tower coming along? I hope to see more. Thanks.  &apls &apls

It's looking good.   :)

I think you should stretch this as well.

RT comes a long... well most modeling of the tower itself is done. From last time main change would be completely remodeled ray structure. Pity that no one had noticed that some counter rays were missing. Anyway now the distribution is much better and more "practically believable"

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi017.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F68%2F05f9fe051117.jpg&hash=09ae45b07000f4261cfe0c45f2725a3e7d3bf448)

Now I'm  bit stuck deciding what sort of material would those load barring rays be plated with. Some people suggested to as Lord Foster  $%Grinno$%.  In terms of modeling one remaining issue is the integration of the tower into the street level of the game. It's triangular shape will be challenging for games rectangular (or 45 degree) grid. So I'm thinking on the way to turn this form mishap into advantage. I do have some ideas already but need to test them. I've been distracted with that helicopter/planes thing for a while. But that 's good modeling something entirely different gives a perspective.
Th main issue with ground level stuff is that well, much of it would be going bellow ground. As such that will be antishadows that would have to be dealt with manually. Given immense size of the tower I dread the thought of it. So If anyone who has ever been working with such problems came up with solution? I mean had all those underground plazas been manually edited?  Or is there some way to use foundations for that?

BTW giant machinery that has been stockpiled on the plot had finally came to life:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi011.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fcd%2F20e20f1125dd.jpg&hash=ec6018f8b5d0a98649e1d041162acbf943ddea0a)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi029.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F4e%2F900cfe108258.jpg&hash=ca6e05491c8dff1f85d04bd498e08bd3e2140939)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi013.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F5c%2Fa8f9652284f9.jpg&hash=48712bd362dc4307b852abf8d43abcd34ee7a88e)
photos by igor

That would have to cut huge whole in the ground - 50 meters (height of a normal 15 storey building!!) deep to lay foundations for the supporting rays

So does anyone have any suggestion on the cladding issue?

From the rendering it looks like it is a vague shiny metal  :) .  One question though, is how do you want the seams to run?  Should they run perpendicular to the rays (meaning the metal plates would be rectangles), or should they be horizontal, independent of the angle of the rays?  It's not a big detail though.

In response to the Russian economy discussion from before, I'm happy to hear about Russia's progress.  The US used to have big proud and productive initiatives (sometimes for the better, sometimes not  :) ), but we don't now.  Through a lack of government leadership (in urban planning, foreign policy, etc.) we have developed the economic and social problems we have today that prevent us from accomplishing what we are capable of.  Meanwhile Russia, who has more and deeper economic and social scars than the US, is still able to accomplish things.  Even with what we are building, we can't get over designs like the Chicago Spire, or names like "Freedom Tower" (and I won't mention all of the faux historic architecture that's being built).  I appreciate that this Russian building your BATing isn't getting hung up on anything, architecturally.  It just is what it is.  It's modern like that.  If it's guilty of anything it's looking like it came out of Blade Runner.   :)

I don't know what to say about the underground stuff.  I think everyone's stuff in the past has just not dealt with that problem.

Wow your helicopter looks really nice!  Although that may be because you are a MAX user... $%Grinno$%  I'm lovin' that tower as well!

The Mi-26 musn't be change!!! The picture you show yesterday shows nearly perfect dimensions. And NO, it can't be a police or hospital helo, it 's way too big!!!! The roof of the Hospital will collaps if you try to land this huge baby on it( :D) !

Yeah, I guest Une is right  :-[. But it would have been cool anyways.  :P Oh, and Fox, the Russia Tower is BEAUTIFUL. I can't wait until it comes out for download. $%Grinno$%

Oh, by the way Fox. The construction pictures you showed is that the Russia Tower being constructed ()what()? If so when did they start and what is the projected time of it being completed. What Year?

mmorales
yep that is a actual photos of construction of Russia Tower under way...
There was a "start-up" party on the site sometimes last autumn (september-october) with Luzhkov  - almost omnipotent mayor of Moscow and Foster present...
For that big part of the lot was laid with concrete blocks (so that VIPs wouldn't get any dirt on their handmade shoes) and huge tent erected when champagne and caviar buffet was served. After that there was some pause (I guess because of winter) and starting february-march huge machinery started to assemble on the plot - one of those tools you see on pictures apparently it is a biggest "cutter" in the world (supposedly one of 5 or so in existence). And couple of weeks ago actual work began - building of housing for foreign workers (almost all construction is done by them in Moscow) and some digging started.

here is a first sketch of the lot.

I know how people don't like that bated LOTs but here the shape of the tower and it's size make the construction of one in LOT editor very problematic.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi020.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F2f%2F20544fae5b93.jpg&hash=885ed8738fcfb8e9d7d01454508d498624fd2c72)

I'm not exactly sure how the Lot will be realized, Will it be in one piece with the tower (not too likely) or like a separate prop, or some other arrangement. The principle is however most likely shall stay same - underground garage entrances and entrance to underground station/mall.

If you have suggestions, voice them!

I think you may pull off a pretty favourable one there so I wouldn't worry  ;)

Suggestions? Maybe utilise the default maxis sidework texture

My suggestion would be to make an overhanging version too so that two edges can be put next to diagonal roads and the other next to an orthogonal road. That would be really cool.

Fred

Quote from: freedo50 on June 01, 2008, 03:01:55 PM
My suggestion would be to make an overhanging version too so that two edges can be put next to diagonal roads and the other next to an orthogonal road. That would be really cool.

Fred

This is also a good idea

I would nix your grass spots and render with nothing there so that you can use the maxis grass to match. Using the maxis sidewalk texture is a good plan too.

Biggest problem you are going to have with a BATed base are the shadows.  You may be better off making the underground entrance & base steps separate props, then you can "turn off" the ground shadows for these.

Freedo:
I don't think it will work. Diagonal roads in the game are at 45 degrees, aren't they? Here, on the other hand we have a 60 degree angle. So it wouldn't really fit, and that sort of 15 degree gap would look really ugly.

Yoder, I can match Maxis grass pretty close (almost indistinguishable) also in BAT. Here is an example of texture matching:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi039.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F35%2Fbcda7ce919b2.jpg&hash=095eb29a38dd4ed2c2a70598c8e31cc98146179a)

So there is no problem there. The fact is that flat portions of the lot are, in fact, functional. they cover from sight the parts of the model that go below the ground level. What I mean is that now from the camera point nothing will go beyond LOD shell. This should insure that there will not be "anti-shadow" present. If I remove the grass I would then have to to manually edit all the masks for all elements (if they would be separate elements) or one large element. At any rate this is tons of work, particularly given the irregular shape of garage entrances, and quite pointless one.

I can't be sure 100% yet, but I think after I faced this issue with Naberezhnaja Tower, I now understand how and why it happens.
Problem comes from the fact that although LODs only cover the above ground part of the model, the one supposed to be visible, the MASK dos go beyond ground and is mixed with standard black. That mask extension is in fact what is perceived in game as "anti-shadow". When I simply edited masks for Nab. tower the problem has been solved.

So this time around I specially designed all underground and ground level elements so that it wouldn't happen.  No part of the mask is beyond the LODs. This, however remains to be seen. I''ll try to render clay model to see if I'm right about it...

Cal:
if I turn off ground shadows for props wouldn't it mean that those props will be receiving shadows?

Man , that tower is Massive! Looks great  &apls

Quote
I don't think it will work. Diagonal roads in the game are at 45 degrees, aren't they? Here, on the other hand we have a 60 degree angle. So it wouldn't really fit, and that sort of 15 degree gap would look really ugly.

If the lot base is made like a right-angled triangle, it really shouldn't be an issue, to be honest. :P

It just takes a little creativity.

Is it only  me, or does it appear as if that bird is crapping on the building?  ??? ???

$%Grinno$%

^^
:D

Shadow Assasin:
Hm... am I missing something? Is it possible to make 60 degrees roads in the game, because the base of the tower is equilateral triangle...

QuoteIs it only  me, or does it appear as if that bird is crapping on the building?   

It appears that it was badly sick!!

$%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2 $%#Ninj2

Hey Fox. I hope you dont plan on changing the way your grass looks for the lots. I like how your grass looks lush and dark green than that of the maxis grass. Oh, how is the Russia Tower coming along? ;D

RT progressing slowly, literally ...
I've applied metallic, sort of material for support rays and render had come to the crawl speed - from 1hour per Zoom5 view to 2hours 30 min. Situation isn't normal.. there must be some bug somewhere. I'm better find it.

I hope your PC will survive such a huge BAT :P!

well, I've managed to "squeeze" it under 1 hour30 min per Zoom5 view.
Here is a result:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi032.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Ff9%2Fe2f3138bf158.jpg&hash=27d0e09b5c27097b3690f09f2a237e6e21426982) (http://i032.radikal.ru/0806/f9/e2f3138bf158.jpg)


Picture size reduced and linked to original instead.
/Tage

damn that looks sweet.

Hell, that looks huge, and really sweet. The underground parking (or that's what I think it is) is a very realistic detail aswell, I love it.

Indeed, that looks great... (LOL, I almost said "grate"... it does look a little like a cheese grater...  ???)

It looks kind of empty inside... are you planning on doing something about that or are you going to do the nightlights now?

I'm looking forward to the nightlights, though... I know they'll look awesome.

yeah! it's big and brash like Russia itself.
I just came from the reception for National Day in Russian embassy. It is quite funny really... most common attire is military uniforms - Russian, naturally, American (oddly second in numbers), Finnish (naturally too), English, French, German, Japanese, Chines etc, etc,etc... and religions robes... It says something about new Russia though and it's place in world dance. All those discourses between big powers do seem to be a big charade played to blind rest of the world. Behind closed doors those few big ones are cozy together...

There is still quite a bit of work on it... That is a problem with structures of this size. when you go into details the very scale is immense... so there is NO way to get detailed enough. Still, there are plenty more there already then on average skyscraper on stex - most of those are just barely textured boxes ...
Observation decks will have people, I mean low poly models, office floors... well those may get something with textures...

Night lighting. We'll see. I have some interesting ideas, but not quite sure as to how to bring those effects to the game. But I'll try. Lot will have some landscaping and vegetation and more detailed public areas. Also the Pyramid will house mini shopping mall. Naturally it will only be visible at night view.

The real tower is multifiunctional complex - so called vertical city for 25 000 people, it has offices, apartments, retail, sport facilities (including swimming pools on some 80th or so floor), hotel. Such a variety of function will make tower very colorful at night. but I'm not sure I would be able to recreate such a scope. Actually it would be particularly difficult in day view. So I decided that SC4 version will be plain office tower, but I may still try to "make it so" for a night one.
Problem is that already as is the day view at zoom5 takes 1,5 hours to render... Not sure how far I could push it...

Hey Fox. In my opinion it looks fantastic. I am kind of excited about what you are going to do for the night lighting. I think the detail you have now is just wonderful. Keep up the good work and I can't waite until this bad boy is ready for download.  :thumbsup: &apls &apls &apls

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :thumbsup: &apls

Sorry, no words....

been doing some gardening:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi006.radikal.ru%2F0806%2Faf%2Ff3e0c3beb163.jpg&hash=e52d8160ea07f65ecc1a2b918962ec0c4af52822) (http://i006.radikal.ru/0806/af/f3e0c3beb163.jpg)

I know it isn't quite right from the point of the architecture of the tower, but I think it would look better from games point of view, plus it would hid some issues with the lot...

what do you ting of foliage color? too yellow?


Picture size reduced and linked to original instead
/Tage

Nop, just right!!!

I hope you'll be able to do the nitelight the way you want (and not the way your PC wants! :angrymore:) I'm thinking about a mixt between your 2 last pics (the Tower zoom5 pic and the garden) and I 've got thefeeling that they're gonna blend pretty well :thumbsup:.

That is not CGI. :o

Wow. That is going to look so nice with the tower. It is just perfect. The trees almost look real. Keep up the good work and hope to see more. :thumbsup:

I hope you know CPR, since you've just taken my breath away.

Oh good, you're using the medium wealth grass texture. :P

The trees look fine... if anything, the colour offsets the tower quite nicely. It adds a little bit of extra colour [there isn't much yellow, it's all blue and grey, etc...].

WoW!! Is all I can say simfox...  :thumbsup:

...from site rules:

Quote
You can post any dimension image and video files. However the files must be hosted off site. Direct file upload to this site is severely restricted. Also a maximum width of 1024 pixels is highly recommended ( but not mandatory) to keep a balanced monitor view in most of the members' computers.

I'm really curious what is that rush of administration is really motivated? I'm not an anarchist and welcome rules. But in reasonable societies rules have explanations and justifications and not simply pushed top-down...

IMHO, such a system of thumbnails is counterproductive (particularly the way it is implemented by TAGE) viewer is still downloading the full sized image (time) and then only seas reduced and distorted image. Opening image separately isn't too comfortable either. it removes it from any text that accompanies it and generally reduces cohertion of the message.

I don't post big pictures just for the sake of it. I go for proper Zoom5 renders as to give viewer accurate impression with minimum effort. So I would appreciate if they were not distorted. And if there some questionsthat those would be addressed to me...

PS
did they say Russians don't like NATO too much?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi054.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F47%2F312c78d7aa13.jpg&hash=dc0aae2796356407f0e19235b03727a2b363d518)

Quote from: SimFox on June 15, 2008, 07:11:27 AM
...from site rules:
I'm really curious what is that rush of administration is really motivated? I'm not an anarchist and welcome rules. But in reasonable societies rules have explanations and justifications and not simply pushed top-down...

IMHO, such a system of thumbnails is counterproductive (particularly the way it is implemented by TAGE) viewer is still downloading the full sized image (time) and then only seas reduced and distorted image. Opening image separately isn't too comfortable either. it removes it from any text that accompanies it and generally reduces cohertion of the message.

I don't post big pictures just for the sake of it. I go for proper Zoom5 renders as to give viewer accurate impression with minimum effort. So I would appreciate if they were not distorted. And if there some questionsthat those would be addressed to me...

My personal opinion: All users should stick to the 800x600 or 1024x768 size max., and provide links to larger versions, if necessary. Not everyone here has the ability of viewing the forum with a 22+" flatscreen, and larger pics always disrupt the forum layout, causing the need of horizontal scrolling. Since you're using 800x600 pixel images at Simtropolis as well, I'd say you could post them without too much hassle here, too. :)

I like the looks of that new building, will the 'stripe-alike' things on the highest part of the tower stay white; that really blends great with the blue touches. The inner part of the building still looks a bit bare at the moment, tho. Yet another building I'm anxiously waiting for.

well, just though to have my say on the picture issue... Still vast majority of my "oversized" pictures are withing 1024 limit... Anywho...

New building materials are placeholders only. I just decided yesterday to give myself a rest from struggle with MaxScript - im trying to automate some operations I need to do for RT. It is so big that manually it is very time consuming and annoying. So I've decided to script it... which proves to be 10 times more time consuming... $%Grinno$% but it must be done!
well back to building. I can't say that I particularly like it (design) I always thought of it being crazy mess... Just though to make it as an exercise in making the shabe of the main tower ridges and becasue I have plans for the parking structure. It is sort of study... since I plan many buildings with such annexes to come.

The "stars" will stay very bright - but they'll have slight metallic feel to them - plated with anodized aluminum. Windows are from super clear hightech glass, that is very difficult to recreate pleasingly from such a viewing angle, but I think I've found some acceptable ways...

Hey Fox. The round part of the tower is kind of cool looking. I especialy like the diamond look. Oh, how is the Russia Tower coming along? Keep up the good work and hope to see more. ;D

Sorry. I didn't mean to say "Diamond". I meant to say "stars". There pritty neat. A metalic color would look so cool. I wonder what it would look like in GOLD $%Grinno$%. I LOVE the color gold. ;D

Quote from: SimFox on June 15, 2008, 12:44:24 PM
I just decided yesterday to give myself a rest from struggle with MaxScript - im trying to automate some operations I need to do for RT. It is so big that manually it is very time consuming and annoying. So I've decided to script it... which proves to be 10 times more time consuming... $%Grinno$% but it must be done!

have you tried using the marco recorder tool in maxscript?  It will record in maxscript what you do in the 3ds max interface, say create a rough cube, select a polygon on te cube and delete it would be:



Box lengthsegs:1 widthsegs:1 heightsegs:1 length:65.2291 width:96.496 height:66.8464 mapcoords:on transform:(matrix3 [1,0,0] [0,0,1] [0,-1,0] [-4.31267,0,-2.15633]) isSelected:on
$.name = "cube"
toolMode.coordsys #view
macros.run "Modifier Stack" "Convert_to_Poly"
subobjectLevel = 4
$.EditablePoly.SetSelection #Face #{2}
actionMan.executeAction 0 "40020"  -- Edit: Delete Objects
$.EditablePoly.delete #Face



Of course the code you get will need some modification, and optimiztion, marco recorder can give you a general idea of how to work the code.
Modification and condensation yields (after searching through the Editable poly class's properties and method syntaxies)



b1 = Box lengthsegs:1 widthsegs:1 heightsegs:1 length:61.9946 width:98.6523 height:51.2129 mapcoords:on pos:[0,0.539083,0] isSelected:on
convertTo b1 (Editable_Poly)
polyOp.deleteFaces b1 #{2} delIsoVerts:true



and using similar methedology with the help of the marco recprder (and of course with a share of loops and such) a tedious task can be automated...

Wow. What a strange building! I can't say I'm a fan. I like the circular tower with the mesh (you call them stars, I think?) but the boxes flanking it look awkward. The tower is very hodge-podge, and its marriage with the base looks like an afterthought.

Of course, that is not a statement against your phenomenal modeling! I'm looking forward to seeing more of it.

I will say though, that I'd love to see the circular tower taken off and turned into an entirely different building!

Autovino:
Well, I need genralibility... Problem with Macrorecorder is that it does what name suggests, records those one by one actions. And I need complex operations done to complexly (is that a word??) selected sets of objects and subobjects...

Nofunk:
I know... I always though it to be an awful example of what might be built. Still I was curious to play with those star shapes (actually this building has several elements that aren't bad on their own, it just the way they are put together that is so objectionable. Still I decided to get it a go...

Hey Fox. I would like to know what is the current stage for the fine piece of work. Thanks.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi303.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn156%2Fmmorales2%2Fcam2stage71280hi9.jpg&hash=720bb6ec3d0a490d799ac2d204482a064fcbc3de)

Oh! Ukraina... well pretty much same as on that picture.
One thing that I've determined is that it would HAVE to be stretched up. I modeled it to true life heights, so that the star on a spire is at 200m. But in game it, particularly main tower looks terribly squashed...

There is still quite a bit of modeling left to do, lowest two floors with giant arched windows, entrance that now is just a hint, yard flacking wings terraces...
But good that you've brought it to my attention, I sort of forgot about it...

Do you plan to finish it? It is such a beautiful building and would be a shame not to complete it. Oh, by the way, how is the Russia Tower coming along?

Yeah, it would be a shame to lose such nice building. Oh, by the way, I looked "complexly" up, and it's indeed the adverb of "complex".  :D

Yes i do plan to finish it.

Here is a current state. As you see I've been slaving away with stonework...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi053.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F96%2F034b614abf63.jpg&hash=c7bb42a3b34bd1a9573d3b9ab93d8a4e9e0e3e0b)

That is insane!! My computer would explode if I attempted something like that $%Grinno$%

Wow. So beautiful  $%Grinno$%. I can't waite to see more. &apls &apls &apls

Quote from: Alfred.Jones on June 20, 2008, 09:26:37 PM
That is insane!! My computer would explode if I attempted something like that $%Grinno$%

Agreed. ;D

might be helpful....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi029.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F29%2F64f0b542b42b.jpg&hash=fcf6ec387101894b8f95d619c3e72fa763e08aa5)

Thanx_ MG!
Yep, I've gotten that one already.., I'm thinking how to incorporate it...
But i have a sneaky suspicion that there are some issues with this plan... So proportions look a bit wrong. The pyramid appear to be much large (wide9 then on the tech drawings of structural elements (the ribs) I've seen before...

and here is a "in-game" (sans stretch) view of Ukraina

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi052.radikal.ru%2F0806%2F41%2F812f0f9378f5.jpg&hash=7005109ba0e49e66c9c7633bca99c360262b6c05) (http://i058.radikal.ru/0806/db/a3470d207d4d.jpg)
^^
click on picture to see proper Zoom5 view

that looks...*thinks*

nope now words....

in a very good way

Joe

Wow Fox! The Ukraina is coming together. Wow, that is one Beautiful building. I can't wait to see it complete. :thumbsup:

Hey Fox. I was wondering on how the Russia Tower is coming along. Also, do you have any more updates on the Ukraina?

nice.  I bet modelling those bricks at the base must have been a pain.  ;)

Wow, fantastic Bat and great details.
Excellent work Sim fox.

Things Are currently on hold... because I did one stupid thing (it always pays to check basics before diving into more complicated/time consuming stuff) 'll see if I can fix situation of at least find a way to rescue what I have done in a last 2 weeks...

Auto: actually it wasn't, it is pretty simple procedure and not at all that time consuming. I believe to get the same quality with textureing would be much greater pain youKnowWhere.

quick question... where do i put an MR sun so it produces the correct shadows for sc4 when i edit the bighuge lighting rig???

Open the light group (don't ungroup) and find the light called mainshadow01...the one with a multiplier of 0.8....that's the main light source in any of the lightrigs.  Theoretically you should place the sun at the same angle and at the same azimuth as this spot to produce the same shadows.  However, I'm not 100% certain the Huge rig is the best one to go by...I normally use the standard rig as a baseline.

unfortunately the standard rig isnt big enough for some of my structures...

Any Single Sun should be placed at location (XYZ) -474,-352,575
One good thing about the SUnSky rig is hta tit is size independent.  I mean you can put the sun at -.474,-.352,.575 with same sucsess! Sun (MR Sun, IES Sun, V-ray Sun) is an infinite direct light. Same could be said about the sky. But here situation gets a bit more complicated. Ideally sky should share both position and inclination of the sun, but there are some issues with it. I would say placing sky at zenith is more practical solution.

Such rig, as I've said, will be totally size independent, so you need only one.

Also despite the quality of MR Sun+Sky is about the best you can get in 3d today (better then V-Ray combo imho) I gave up on trying to colorcorrect strong turquoise tint of Mr Sky. So I nowadays use MR Sun (placed as I've mentioned earlier) and IES Sky In Zenith with RGB of 176,165,255 and multiplier of 1,2 (but that could be also 1 depending on the model) and I do use MR Photographic exposure color mapping with 1/512Sec, F8.0 and ISO200. I set whitepoint at 6200K. You also may consider to boost color saturation about 10-20%, Higlights burn at .25-.4 depending, again on the model and shadow crush at .2-.3 But do NOT enable Gamma (at least not for the export). Thing is, it does 2.2 gamma correction anyway, but you should remember to gamma correct (or to be precise De-Gamma) your textures.

Hey Fox,

     Any progress on the Russia Tower?

Russia Tower is in the works. But it is a very big project... but meanwhile here is sort of quickie:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs47.radikal.ru%2Fi117%2F0808%2F15%2Fb9d99687ef32.jpg&hash=d3123c363b1a141d5c47966d41fcfbb2889d83e6)

Looks like R$$$. :P

Maybe even R$$... but that looks cool, even without a complete set of real textures. :P

well original (in Moscow) is R$$, so...

anywho it is practically ready only roof-top left to be textured, then lighting (standard one I use on residentials) and It could be available either tomorrow evening or early next week:

any chance of an update of the Russia Tower please, simfox?  $%#Ninj2

Russia Tower is in works... I'm pondering what sort of base to make for it. Tower itself is more or less done.

Wow Fox!!! I love the new tower. I espescialy love the water texture. I can't wait to see more. :D

another one...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs45.radikal.ru%2Fi107%2F0809%2Fc9%2F52bc68d1dd70.jpg&hash=872e0685674cb6275ee82d0e7e0c331fa67125ae)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs58.radikal.ru%2Fi159%2F0809%2Fdf%2F6dc3acf1d81b.jpg&hash=3d3649c76b862ba4aa5a775b62c7f37ce606a29d)

looking good but im really not feeling the pink...

actually the color scheme is very eye-pleasing imo.  ;)
Definatly original design though... a little to original for my tastes though.

this tower start very good  &apls &apls

Wonderful as always SimFox!!! The night lights on the building are one of, if not the best ones I've ever seen on a buildings for SC4!  &apls &apls

This is extremely beautiful. R u going to do a similar base as the other tower? Is this going to be a residential? I can't wait to download this. &apls &apls &apls &hlp &hlp &hlp

Well what do you mean by base? The tower is complete. And yes it is a residential.

I mean the ground floor of the building. That is what I mean by "base" of the building. Do you plan on puting a water texture around the building like your last tower? I think it will look so nice. ;D

Quote from: mmorales2 on September 04, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
I mean the ground floor of the building. That is what I mean by "base" of the building. Do you plan on puting a water texture around the building like your last tower? I think it will look so nice. ;D

I have to agree. As much as I enjoy the challenge or relotting most of the buildings I download; your modelled lots just look too damn good for me to want anything but. Also.. I must say that your nightlighting is always so damn sexy. Keep up the good work.

Tyerel (wes.janson)

AWESOME!!! &apls I like the pink, it's unique especially for this game, it sticks out.

well; it was the whole point to make it unique...
If I will start making same for every tower it wouldn't be no more unique...
Originally this was supposed to be tower for LOT editor made lot. It fits 16x16 grid very neatly and shouldn't be difficult to be put on small 3x3 lot with good and logical fitting for all the necessary access point.
But I also plant of make a "mega-lot" with 4 or may be even 7 towers. For that I may consider some sort of water feature as well as  non-flat grounds. May be that (water and non-flat) will lead to some sort of waterfall feature... But that isn't clear yet.
The tower itself should be available for download this weekend. there will be 4 different colors available:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs56.radikal.ru%2Fi152%2F0809%2Fe7%2F2eeb56510dea.jpg&hash=7dc5a57976aec5706f631dafef90367f388723d0)
those are rendering of unfinished tower

We are generally fairly liberal on pic sizes, but please be sparing of your use of pics larger than 1024x768--they cause scrollbars to appear, which makes it difficult for many users to see your images.  I have resized this one accordingly.  -Alex (Tarkus), SC4D Admin

I don't know why but it looks so much like it's real... ;D ;D ;D

A "mega-lot" sounds very cool. That will be a neat project to see. Maybe when you do this mega-lot, when you use the water texture, you could probably put lights under the water, to iluminate it at night. That would be so cool. $%Grinno$% By the way, how is the Russia Tower coming along?

that is an aerial shot of te real tower ??  $%Grinno$%
very incredible tower  &apls

It's very impressive! :o :o

As usual, your building are realy impressive :thumbsup:.

Can I join my voice to mmorales2's in order to have some news one your super Russia Tower ?

very nice tower
I am intersted by Russia tower that quoted une_ame
Is this render of you ??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.host-image.eu%2Ffiles%2Fimg7%2Fx6p19b6d9816.jpg&hash=9f1096ea8cbad06faa1d1dbf9d0f47aed86775cc) (http://www.host-image.eu/files.php?img=x6p19b6d9816.jpg)

If you are going to post a bloody big image, make sure you add the width function into the image tag to reduce the image so people without 32" screens can see it

code is  width=800 (or 1024) inside the first [ IMG ] tag

RT is alive but it has some issues with MAX2008.
I'm looking into solutions.
But I also have quite a few projects to finish before I'll continue with it. But I promise to bring it to STEX and LEX. Just gimme a little time...

something new:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi074.radikal.ru%2F0809%2F23%2F705927b5b392.jpg&hash=0747902c5741926fcb3a89de965bdb75c1e3bd7a)

The overall layout is looking excellent  :thumbsup:


Not sure about the roofs.... perhaps some more details still in progress  :-\ ....  ;D ?¿

Another big baby :o!!

Where is this one come from ?

that's an awesome tower  &apls

It's IMPRESSIVE!!!!!!! :o &apls

Jeronij:
Well some details will be still added to the roof slopes but largely they are the way they will be. Ofcouse they shalle be clad in bright tiles.

Une_ame:
This isn't really all that big - and that is a reason it has been pushed up in the schedule as compared to say Ukraina. This is also form Moscow.
Here is a current state of it (model and the real thing):

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs51.radikal.ru%2Fi133%2F0810%2Fae%2F891185f3f632.jpg&hash=0cb756a96dad9c1d00307c8f3a0730774a24608f)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs59.radikal.ru%2Fi163%2F0810%2F2a%2F7d22ab058766.jpg&hash=50d9fd7b53a85bebd19127c7e37d9f0ddcdf43a3)

the reproduction look good  :thumbsup:

Again, magnificent work here, my friend.

Quote
This isn't really all that big - and that is a reason it has been pushed up in the schedule as compared to say Ukraina.

Is the Hotel Ukraina in the works? That would be quite a massive project, wouldn't it? Either way, I'm sure it would look outstanding!

Wow this bat is absolutly super  &apls

SimFox,

I've been keeping a close eye on your BATs recently, and must say that the Russia Tower is coming along nicely. However, the Ukraina Hotel is just gorgeous--perhaps, more so than the other big BAT. I mean, the detail is just amazing, and I can tell that you've taken a lot of care on it.

I just wish I could participate in all this BATting craziness somehow. So the best I can do is cheer you guys on.

As a "Simluminist" (that's my new term for you, Cockatoo, and others), you are part of a very talented generation of BATters, I'm sure you know. I also hope that everyone in the SC4 community (at least here on SC4D and ST) understands that it is your body of work that is upping the ante for any would-be BATters that come after you. The quality and detail of the pieces all of you are putting forth lately are just superb. And while I know that a large portion of what you do must stay private, I applaud all of your efforts to upload for the rest of us. I just wanted to say thanks for allow to us to enjoy it all.

Keep up the good work.  &apls

Damn right surdanis-san! :) Wonderful, SimFox!

I'll have to agree with surdanis also! I love all of your works and look forward to more!

Jayson

Fantastic replication!  &apls

Now that is a stunning replication. &apls  You Sir, are a master BAT'er.  Superb job on it :thumbsup:

thank you, guys , for your kind words!

updates:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs40.radikal.ru%2Fi088%2F0810%2F7c%2F389d0bac1e98.jpg&hash=1f514d4c67eb89dcde3ca153f81c814fa98bf156)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs60.radikal.ru%2Fi168%2F0810%2F3a%2F278681ae23bd.jpg&hash=c0991b29d5be8c220e190c789303ceffebca300c)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs50.radikal.ru%2Fi127%2F0810%2F0c%2Ff13a7eae4ef1.jpg&hash=231f1bc6268b106fbb9c72571918bc3fadf330e6)

the roof has, naturally, placeholder material, walls... well here I'm not too sure... Basically original as you can see is pretty white with slightly gray/green detailing...

that' sawesome  :o great work  &apls

Amazing! :o I love the detailing and the great framed windows! :thumbsup:

Stunning work as always SimFox  :o :thumbsup:
As for the walls, I would make them a bit more grey. They look a bit too 'clean' at the moment  ;)

Spectacular!   &apls This building is going to look great in cities.  :thumbsup:

Just Beautiful!!!! &apls

Jayson

Impressive and beautiful! &apls

This is just amazing. I can't wait for this to be ready for downloading. P.S.- How is the Russia Tower coming along?

Incredible work  &apls

Hello? Is anyone here? R there any more updates? LOL. ;D $%Grinno$% :P

no, not yet...
I think all the updates are on hold till mid December as I'm busy with work now and then I'll be off to China for a month...

Wow. I just looked through the whole thread. I'm stunned and in awe.

any updates, since it's mid-december and all?  ;)  ;D

I was busy with work after I've form China plus battling with bleeding HDD in my Powerbook that had died on me during the flight back home... and took with it about 30+ Gb of photos from Central Kingdom among which much reference material I planned to use..

Taking it all into account I think I wouldn't have any real updates till early January... :-(

awww no  :(, i hope you have better luck in the near future. :)

Take all the time you need but come back with new awesome BAT like the one you show us before :thumbsup:.

Hellllooooo? Any more updates? Please, we need updates. LOL. Oh, how is the Russia Tower coming along? ;D

awesome work  :o
the details in your models are really.... breath taking somehow

Long time no update, well i love your BATs, you allways put a lot of care and attention into them and i love your moscow residential BATs the most as they allow me to make the kinds of Euro inspired estates seen in china like this:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg81.imageshack.us%2Fimg81%2F6891%2Fsimfoxtowers.jpg&hash=2844a547706281331fd4102b1625d4fdb348ea8c)

Yeah, long time... didn't have time to do any bating lately...
However, today i managed to get some work on Ukraina done. It is almost done in terms of modeling.


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs45.radikal.ru%2Fi110%2F0906%2Ff7%2F388bbbf5dd36t.jpg&hash=73d38169b68d80f8c34f399fe7f1683d26990616) (http://radikal.ru/F/s45.radikal.ru/i110/0906/f7/388bbbf5dd36.jpg.html)

So nice Simfox

congratulation

any news about FT ??

Now, I can die....................

Girafe,
lately I had virtually no time to do some bating... But I do intent to finish it as well. Main issue with it at the moment is the design of the base. There seems to be some lat alterrations planned. Also the design of the central spire. All the renderings were showing it to be steel and glass structure from bottom to the top of elevator shaft. yet now it is being built (and already at the hight of about 250m) and it is a concrete tube... so, go figure... But Towers are basically done (apart form making interior under that huge glass domes)

Une_Ame, please, don't...

That is one intense building!

@ Simfox

Yes, it's very long to see what they will do with the central column. And i admit it's difficult to plan what they are doing with the cladding in this part of the building and I think we must wait still few months before seeing everything. In an other side they have announced that they don't build russia tower what do you also do with your model ??

Only City of Capitals will be ended before 2010 and the towers topped out till 300m, have you plan to BAT them ?

thanks for your answer

Situation with Russia Tower is unclear... As market conditions will improve, I'm sure someone will pick this project up. The name, both of the tower itself and the architect makes it a very meaningful prestige project, and City of Moscow have plenty of ways to make it happens. My model had run into problem with the base design and the fact that I've foolishly been making it in Max2k9. It's Mental Ray is not compatible with current versions of Bat4Max. I have plans to re-write export script in such a way as to fix that but it is still just a project.
Another problem is that buildings of such size aren't my personal playing style... this does affect the final stage of the project. But I think I'll return to it at some point. Now everyone eagerly expecting CitiesXL. But following the news about that game I have my serious doubts about it being something to replace the SimCity4 which had virtually became "open-source/standard" game. I don't think MC will want that. They seem to built their revenue around selling "extras". This makes doubt that they will really open it to modifying and user created custom content. And without such game like this will be good for few months...

Federation is proceeding, albeit slowly, I mean real thing. I think they have (after the paranoia following 9/11) made the structural integrity such a priority that building is very difficult and time consuming to construct. I saw on Discovery Chanel documentary about it recently. They said it has at least 3 and some parts as many as 4 layer structural security measures. Much of the design is first ever, so naturally things are subjects to constant delays.

Wow Fox!!! The Ukraina is looking and I can't wait for downloading. Do you plan on making the other ones just like it:  Triumph Palace, Moscow State University , Building on Kotelnicheskaya Embankment , Ministry of Foreign Affairs , Kudrinskaya Square, Hotel Leningradskaya , Red Gate Square. They all have that castle feel and would look great in any city. oh, by the way keep up the good work.

I was thinking of Kudrinskaja and Ministry of Foreign affairs.
Triumph and University are just too huge. Not sure they even could be batted in one piece. Plus Triumph isn't strictly speaking in the same league...
Kotelnicheskaja, although a splendid example, is of a bit odd (for game) shape.

For a long time I din't have much time to spend on BATing, but now I have had a break and here are some results:

First of all the "quickie" #1:

Chiao Tian Men (gateway to heaven):

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2F119581%2F21945%2FCTM%255Fd%252Ejpg&hash=e314ca653ffc77e57f1251197708867b1c82a4ad)  (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2F119581%2F21945%2FCTM%255Fn%252Ejpg&hash=5a76f1754d89af42676db113717887f3b3e90c58)

you can download NON-CAM version from Simtropolis: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21945

CAMpatible version could be ready quite quickly, but apparently there is ether some very big backlog in LEX candidacy or some else...  ()sad() As my last two submissions are already couple of months with no reply...


And here is a new "quickie"

South:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi058.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F7f%2Fb84acb5353e3.jpg&hash=c4166f65b03337de8e11bf594fd8659813c49a88)

East:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs55.radikal.ru%2Fi147%2F0909%2Fd9%2Fa1bd23057382.jpg&hash=ecb8cd5d327004eff6e63d0185ed81c79602b9d4)

North:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi075.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F6e%2Fad6fe2948b97.jpg&hash=06c2212c14faf98e8c0b8c5fd7b0c5e31b4548ae)

West:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi001.radikal.ru%2F0909%2Fb6%2F985ace07bdef.jpg&hash=eb66ed6a961cef0f35a37968b15432018b8f370c)

I've posted all four elevations as I wold like to hear opinion on the ground level of the building. I'm also looking for an advise on the gray of the roof top structural elements. Is it too gray? does it need some color through in?


Idea behind quickies was to make a faster process of making bats both in terms of the actual modeling/texturing as well as export. For instance this latest "quickie" takes only 30 min to export (day only). This is many many times less then some of my comparable (in size) previous buildings.

This latest "offering" is also a testbed for a new BAT4Max that has finally solved compatibility issue with the latest versions of MentalRay. Model is rendered and successfully exported from Max2010 Design

Interesting building. Has several eye catching features... One of which is a bit confusing.

The roof.  At first glance, it is a "wow". Lots of details, and depth.  Could use a little variation in the darkness like water collecting or such), but the grey color works. But it seems to have a lot of depth, expecially on the sides facing away from you. But on the sides facing you (in any elevation), it seems like it is only a meter or so tall, and suspended over a deck of some sort.  The far side almost looks there would be a lattice of sorts going down to cover a mech area, but the "front" looks like there is nothing there.  May just be an optical illusion.

The glass texture you use is very nive, if a bit busy. Stands out a bit from other buildings in game. Not really a bad thing, but just stands out to me.

The base could use "something".  Though I cannot put my finger on it. Maybe a few signs, or canvis awnings?

There are two small flat roofs (base and top of the shaft) which are flat grey.  I am assuming these are not done yet, but just in case they missed your attention....

Very nice work SimFox :)

SimGoober:
I must confess that this is a recreation of a building in Tokyo. And I tried to follow what is there in the original.
The roof is like.

here some pics of it:
Roof:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi041.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F29%2F3dc15071f5bb.jpg&hash=0de8d1d0d5a678ffeac6c22c2b450b591eb4b920)

Building itself:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.panoramio.com%2Fphotos%2Foriginal%2F4577773.jpg&hash=c62686515846ba3b7decc56cb3081fe59cd9fc3a)

Base:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi022.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F99%2Fed11fb751eb5.jpg&hash=27bdc028ddf21c61d07c57638a1caa84a2cde2dd)

As for base... as you could see it hasn't really got anything more than that in real thing either. And I kind of liked it for it's austerity (typically Japanese) especially pared with the busy construction of the roof.

Yep, I guess it is an optical illusion.. lol.

Very nice building &apls

Guillaume :thumbsup:

Awesome, really awesome. The building looks quite nice as the original, great work man !  &apls
-Arthur.  :thumbsup:

here is a development on last project:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.radikal.ru%2Fi188%2F1003%2Fd1%2F64de4a9fb29b.jpg&hash=ae2d01e393f4771e67117aed5a64be17d686eb9d)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.radikal.ru%2Fi187%2F1003%2F0d%2F74325d2c52b1.jpg&hash=0794bb52359be270f50920ed3846ff4a9a864041)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs03.radikal.ru%2Fi176%2F1003%2Fc2%2F8c34b9ef42ee.jpg&hash=b7eecabe32584980f757f4d1f021c26794ea040a)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs006.radikal.ru%2Fi213%2F1003%2F45%2F0e1316a25926.jpg&hash=108bb10e2efc25ec8e9eaee552e72c027bd870a3)

Fantastic as always &apls   img the artist's impression never looked this good!

really like the landscape and the way that the building is reflecting detail.

-Dave

Look's great  &apls

Especially the ground base with all the different cobbels is really unusal.

Oh wow ! The base of the tower is simply outstanding !  :thumbsup: &apls

Your work is always amazing Simfox especially concerning the glass effects

&apls &apls &apls

ps. any news about FT ? even if the project is stopped there in Moscow :((

Looks good SimFox. Glade to see you are paying as much attention to the base of the bat as you are the building.

Great looking.. Love your attention to detail.

Haven't had updated this thread for a long time, but here it goes...
This is my latest BAT - recreation of Mies Van Der Rohe's Seagram building in NYC - my first bat as a member of NYBT.

day:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs001.radikal.ru%2Fi194%2F1008%2Fb7%2Fec2115a26a06.jpg&hash=2c90c0c1a207a6e40bc4d1a7898f8baf431351d4)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs50.radikal.ru%2Fi127%2F1008%2Fa7%2Fbc3847267476.jpg&hash=b6b586f1940b2010f4913af34d03b22b55ee30a2)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs52.radikal.ru%2Fi135%2F1008%2F82%2F0bcdc7d8ff48.jpg&hash=7474a4f7904d0b4bef0d65fe8957101322ed61d4)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs001.radikal.ru%2Fi196%2F1008%2F26%2F05a99b40275f.jpg&hash=b9397c430ef806c10a9960a5ea7e24e7a7d1fc2e)

Dark Nite:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs006.radikal.ru%2Fi214%2F1008%2F8a%2F292f73889f23.jpg&hash=925b0bc31babfe2caabf86ed9a477e260d418322)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs59.radikal.ru%2Fi163%2F1008%2F7c%2F65d5fe491ddd.jpg&hash=2002666f64f858b41793238ba6bbc0afa34f13bf)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs59.radikal.ru%2Fi165%2F1008%2F00%2F69d4871a8e88.jpg&hash=6629da8874769728bc4d3c5e367429bed696a985)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs50.radikal.ru%2Fi128%2F1008%2F32%2Fd0ad1641f886.jpg&hash=52ff296939137d310fde2cc79b0c548fba6a1ef8)

Not sure about that orange glass. I haven't seen the real thing, but in pictures it looks deep dark brown.

On the other hand those water pools are incredibly realistic, as well as the nightlighting.  :o

I do not find very realistic windows, their reflection is not rather appropriate ( too many undulations in day view and night view)

Otherwise the rest is sensational, I appreciate quite particularly the water as well as the work on the lights

Oh my God, it's so realistic! Awesome work! &apls &apls

It's juste amazing! :o :o

Guillaume &apls

Fantastic  &apls &apls &apls
Foutains, trees and cladding are simply excellent  :thumbsup:

do you explain anywhere how to get this kind of nightlights which are spectacular and how to model the foutains and their textures ?

As usual, the BAT is awesome, the cladding is interresting since I do not know the real building (there's so many differences in the RL).

The 2 little SimFox touches you always add (nightlights and HD details) makes this building a must have.

Quote from: Girafe on August 12, 2010, 01:57:55 AM
do you explain anywhere how to get this kind of nightlights which are spectacular and how to model the foutains and their textures ?

Agree, a small tutorial about that would be very welcomed ! Anyway that's realy a nice tower you made there, Simfox ! Can't wait to download it ! (btw, i'm sendind you a MP, I hope you'll answer..  ;D )

Quote from: DebussyMan on August 11, 2010, 08:42:36 PM
Not sure about that orange glass. I haven't seen the real thing, but in pictures it looks deep dark brown.

On the other hand those water pools are incredibly realistic, as well as the nightlighting.  :o

well, since glass as such doesn't have any color by definition (diffused color that is) and it's reflections are color neutral too, unless glass is coated with some metals - more common in 80s and 90s, but not in time of this building construction - 1957. So the only way to see "glass color" is to see it refraction color eg how it affects the light that comes through it. In effect you see something behind the glass. Naturally the "color" you see is composite of many things. the defuse color of the surface.
Taking this in account "deep Dark brown" glass is more or less nonsense - you wouldn't see anything through it as brightness contrast would be so great that in most angles it would be a mirror like surface, yet glazing on this tower is although bronze tinted (to match the pure bronze of the facade) is none the less clear.
And than there is this issue of judging the color (as well as brightness) of something from photograph. Not totally impossible task, but one requires experience and understanding of how light works and how photography works. I can take any picture and make it look very different without actually doing any of the stuff people would expect, but by simply simulating natural phenomena. If you photograph something against bright sky, for instance it will look dark, much, much darker than it would appear to the naked eye, and darker still than it actually is etc, etc.

All that said I did a little "cheating" -virtually all the windows do have something behind them to show the color. There are blinds behind each and every panel of glass. And these are may be not ones that are in a predominant use nowadays - roller blinds, but the venetian type blinds - those that would be there (and still in many places are) by original design.
So I'm pretty sure about "window color". Of course warm lighting of the sun comes to play as well. But that is both natural (to a degree and white balance of you cam) and game appropriate.

So after this long and I guess boring to many, yet essential to keep in mind theoretical part let's look at the color of resulting pixel - one we actually see in place of an image that we believe to be "window"/"glass":

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs61.radikal.ru%2Fi174%2F1008%2Fb3%2F48584888f1ec.jpg&hash=78f0b479868cd6d92b538448c3d7b4d99f9c5fa3)

Two on the left are representative of eh sunny side and two on the right in the shade.

So would you still call them "orange"?

Quote from: Orange_o_ on August 12, 2010, 12:24:29 AM
I do not find very realistic windows, their reflection is not rather appropriate ( too many undulations in day view and night view)

Otherwise the rest is sensational, I appreciate quite particularly the water as well as the work on the lights

would you care to show both realistic and  appropriate reflections?
Too many undulations you say? And how many is not too many, how do you think this whole thing work?
If you would care to look closely you would notice that reflections of near by (to the glass) object are virtually intact. There are scarce little "undulations" yet as the reflected objects move farther away these distortion grow. This is natural physical process, that you (as an artist who often draws things) should be very aware since you suppose to create illusion of reality. And it will only be that if you do still follow major laws of physics.

Girafe:
Fountains, as well as "ground cover" plants under the trees and hedges at the lower roof are particle systems – Fountains sprays are, appropriately SuperSpray, and hedges and ground cover is particle arrays. There is really nothing too complicated about them - the point to create illusion and I believe they do a passable impression of reality. Individual settings are to be tuned on case by case basis – particularly for the fountains. Only real requirement is gravity force, otherwise you spray will go on forever, and perhaps, a deflector at the water level, or slightly below so that particles that finally fall could disperse on it a bit, creating the "foam" at the point of impact.
The material is also quite simple - all are modified Arch&Design mats of 3ds Max. Fountain is just white with a slight hint of turquoise-blue hue in defuse with FG only reflectivity (Fresnel BDRF) set to quite high gloss (80% or so). Leaves of the ground cover and hedges are shades of appropriate green, or yellow-green to be precise.

The water of the pool is more complex. Its final appearance both day and night is dependent of physical properties of the material. Like with glass water doesn't have any defuse color, so it is black (black means NO reflection - in this case no defuse reflection) color what you see is also refraction one. Plus it is dependent on the depth/thickness of the material. So, at the thickness of 1,5 m this water would be of this color:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs52.radikal.ru%2Fi137%2F1008%2Fcc%2F8b682f7099f5.jpg&hash=639111b0cb6ca966994b2c217991399ae1b81f40)

Of course what it means is that this is a tint neutral light will acquire after passing through 1,5 m thick layer of water. Another key element in the appearance of water is the way this type of material creates shadows. Unlike solid opaque materials that simply block visible light transparent ones do nothing of the sort (well not completely anyway), They don't create so called "transparent shadows" typically used in 3d either - those are cheap quick and dirty tricks employed to make things easier and quicker, either. Instead they rather bend light in various ways. And in most cases they work marvelously.
However, when, thickens of the transparent substance become considerable (like with this pool as opposed to the plane of glass) the shortcomings of this method become rather apparent. Here is an illustration of the principle:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs55.radikal.ru%2Fi148%2F1008%2Fed%2F173d1aeadf39.jpg&hash=556e055584b3827622a2f5c5023a1cc217546131)

on the left is "same" water but with "transparent shadow" model, on the right is with proper caustic light distribution.

Caustics is a bending of light when it comes with the contact of the boarder of two transparent substances, like say air and water, air and glass, glass and water etc. If index or Refraction of both medium is exactly same - light continues on its way. If it is different it bends to a certain angle to the normal of the point of impact. If that surface -eg the border between two substances is ideally flat than all light would be bend in exactly same way and although you'll see "picture shift" the brightness of it will be totally uniformed. If the surface is uneven - like, technically speaking all surfaces are, you'll see distortions in both the "picture geometry" but also MUCH more easier noticeable brightness patterns - eg that typical web of light at the bottom of the pool one sees on a sunny day. And of course water surface of the pool is rarely very flat, particularly when there is a fountain present...

So I guess this is that simple tutorial. The matter of the fact is that this is ether very simple or very complicated. It all depends on the perception and ability to create illusion, which in terms based on the ability to see and "deconstruct" what you see in the first place. You can write the instruction of what button press in what succession, but it wouldn't really get you there by itself. The rest is just an eye... You know some don't see the proportions, for instance, or pay no attention to them when they model things. can you teach it? You can tell that they arte important. And in a give case tell what they are, but does it mean that the person who didn't pay attention to them this time will do differently next time?

With hedges it is more "paint by number", of course there too some customization and tuning may improve things, but you will get decent result doing "parrot thing". There are numerous tutorials on the subject available on the net. Method I used doesn't really differed in a any principle and meaningful way, so just Google 3d Hedge and you'll find many. But here is one for those who wouldn't bother: http://www.cgdigest.com/how-to-model-a-3d-hedge/
it is generally good idea to go through at least two three different ones if they are available to see if the rare some particular points of interest in different approaches. Of simply experiment more by yourself...

Art128:

I hope it's OK if I answer it here, as it may be useful for someone else as well:

Quote from: art128 on August 12, 2010, 03:21:39 AM
HI !

I was wondering if you could help me with 3Dsmax (2009). Well my problem isn't really a problem, it's just I don't have any more free "balls" for the textures... Girafe told me that with using the Arch&design it will create new balls, but no it doesn't. Is it that or something else to use ?

Thanks in advance.. 

Max2009 ... May I ask you if your Keyboard goes all sluggish when Mental ray is rendering?

As for the material balls... well it i's very simple really. In MatEditor you can only have 24 samples. But you can have huge number, may be unlimited, of materials in the scene. So once all of the sample balls were used just delete some of the sample. If you have already applied the material you are dealing with it will not be deleted from the scene (unless you select that option), no will it be removed from the geometry it had been applied to.

Here is what you should do:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs003.radikal.ru%2Fi203%2F1008%2F4e%2F6d998a45603b.gif&hash=e4c1250334d8fbb39d0157019d8e343e319b2fab)

Quote from: SimFox on August 12, 2010, 04:25:03 AM
well, since glass as such doesn't have any color by definition (diffused color that is) and it's reflections are color neutral too, unless glass is coated with some metals - more common in 80s and 90s, but not in time of this building construction - 1957.

Er... Actually, because of the increase in the popularity of air conditioning in the 50's, building constructors started to use tinted glass that would absorb heat from the sun, rather than transfer it indoors.  It was in the 60's that they started to add metal to give a more "mirrored" look.  This particular building has bronze tinted windows, and the real building appears darker, mainly because of the surrounding buildings...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fy2u.co.uk%2FNew_York_USA%2FImages_No%2FNYC_Seagram_Building.jpg&hash=5bdfa65a5075059a1f72aadc2a216edb9a6485f1)

Good stuff though  :thumbsup:

Quote from: callagrafx on August 12, 2010, 04:43:36 AM
Er... Actually, because of the increase in the popularity of air conditioning in the 50's, building constructors started to use tinted glass that would absorb heat from the sun, rather than transfer it indoors.  It was in the 60's that they started to add metal to give a more "mirrored" look.  This particular building has bronze tinted windows, and the real building appears darker, mainly because of the surrounding buildings...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fy2u.co.uk%2FNew_York_USA%2FImages_No%2FNYC_Seagram_Building.jpg&hash=5bdfa65a5075059a1f72aadc2a216edb9a6485f1)

Good stuff though  :thumbsup:

Good to know... Still this one is from 50s so prior to 60s by definition, and I think it still has original glass intact, or has it been actually replaced with newer high tech one? At any rate it doesn't show any strong typically metallic tint to the reflections, at least I haven't noticed it after looking to literally hundreds of images of the tower.

As for the dark/light etc it is part an optical illusion and part settings of the cameras. Building is topically photographed against bright sky, Plus those bright building around it. but here is another shot of this "black" as some say tower in a same shot with "white" CitiBank tower:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs52.radikal.ru%2Fi137%2F1008%2Fc7%2Fbb69e3cef887.jpg&hash=7a1acc3e055873a319f88ceaff4b703cd214b8ec)

Interesting isn't it...
And this should ALWAYS be kept in mind when you look at the photo of the building, well at the photo of anything really...

BTW Callagrafx, could you point me to the source of that info on glass, I would like to read more about it... And generally do you know of a credible source of info on properties of architectural glass of various types?

Encyclopaedia Britannica Online  :thumbsup:

I have to bring a precision.

The "undulations" are from my point of view too important. You should correct the properties managing the constants of estrangement. The distortion has to take into account the estrangement or the nearness of the source.


The result which you obtain corresponds to that of an isolated building. Now it is not right. Seagram is intended to be in a CDB. The distortion cannot thus be also important, at least in the low parts.


See on this photo (the glass is more reflecting than that of Seagram), the distortion is important only when the source is far.It is about the high part of this tower


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsm03.casimages.com%2Fimg%2F2010%2F08%2F12%2F100812024308846486552143.jpg&hash=7f142c32df87f754310e0bd8c9241e6ed6d9e61a)

It would be thus acceptable that the details of reflection, is clearer, at least on the base of your building.


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsm03.casimages.com%2Fimg%2F2010%2F08%2F12%2F100812024308846486552144.jpg&hash=1573169aaeb696e20df2428bb464040359b6fac7)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi060.radikal.ru%2F1008%2F0c%2Fc248e4bb7bd1.jpg&hash=28077d05070278abf48c84af76eca00684a73243)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs48.radikal.ru%2Fi121%2F1008%2F92%2Fad7316bd5523.jpg&hash=8a233ccca6f28793e98e4dbbd8c6ca7f39b36e81)

I am sorry but nuance between the top and the bottom is blatant, it is exactly it that I think that it would be necessary to improve.


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs52.radikal.ru%2Fi135%2F1008%2F82%2F0bcdc7d8ff48.jpg&hash=7474a4f7904d0b4bef0d65fe8957101322ed61d4)

In the bottom of this view, we can see sharply that the reflection is not realistic. I think that a texture of road or square improved largely the bottom of the bat.

Is that a fight of drawing touchpad ?  :D

Anyway, thanks for the answer, Simfox, I think it will helps. I'll give you an answer soon. ;)

Quote from: SimFox on August 12, 2010, 04:25:03 AM
well, since glass as such doesn't have any color by definition....Naturally the "color" you see is composite of many things. ...
Taking this in account "deep Dark brown" glass is more or less nonsense ......

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs61.radikal.ru%2Fi174%2F1008%2Fb3%2F48584888f1ec.jpg&hash=78f0b479868cd6d92b538448c3d7b4d99f9c5fa3)

Two on the left are representative of eh sunny side and two on the right in the shade.

So would you still call them "orange"?

Simfox,

To coin a phrase from Shakespeare "...a rose by any other name...."

Great building, fantastic modelling makes this a real treat to behold, the nightlighting is absolutely spectacular; but having walked past this building on many trips the 'orange' hue of your recreation is only evident at dusk. During the day it is more beige and gold and brown.

As per the attached, your textures display a definite lean towards the orange end of the spectrum - argue on the tangent and dispute all you want - I'm sure I need not remind you that colours are never seen in isolation, they exist next to, near, in opposition to, in harmony with, (and so on) other colours.

However, if the orange hue is what you want, then you need only say so: it's that simple.

EDIT: You have also omitted some important details along the E53rd/E52nd Streets sides - namely the entrance to the underground parking and the entrance to the brasserie and to the Four Seasons Restaurant - these traverse both sides of the building; also there are no access points to your upper terraces (the ones with hedges) I assume the real building has doors to access these?

Thank you Simfox for this precise explication, I will try lot of things   ;)

Please do not issue diktats to other members, it's not your place to - Callagrafx (Global Mod)

But begone that unpleasant incident! Back to actual BATs.
Seagram had been released on STEX.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs09.radikal.ru%2Fi182%2F1008%2F06%2Ff3d17cfb4453.jpg&hash=7a2451fe4955363c31d8d6a12bc8453a5e5ddb99)  (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs56.radikal.ru%2Fi154%2F1008%2Fe3%2F317266abe3b9.jpg&hash=63713a6771884ce1a5f76d72dd9f9085b1265166)

Seagram comes in two "flavors" - DarkNite (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24680) and MaxisNite (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24686).
This is my first project that I had made with PIMx - a truly great tool. The only think I would add to it is selection for CAM and regular lots.
Anyway the size of the lot of Seagram vs it's filling degree is such that it sits at Stage8 anyway, still it should be CAMpatible.

Since then another NYC building had be made and released - Barclay Tower:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs006.radikal.ru%2Fi215%2F1009%2F7d%2F0370216caeab.jpg&hash=5c91aa6d89856565b47ebd9ccf0f10e8dc151eb8) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs48.radikal.ru%2Fi121%2F1009%2F11%2F41bc9eff82f8.jpg&hash=d5a02fe2858ccf7ef1f678a9c1ad48301ecafe1d)

again there is a DarkNite (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24841) and MaxisNite (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24842) versions
This time building's small footprint ensured two different set of Lots - regular (Stage 8 R$$$ and CS$$$)that are included in either dark or Maxis version downloads and CAM (Stage 11 R$$$ and Stage 14 CS$$$) available as separate download. (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24844)

I'll be resubmitting my LEX application with these two and (should there be 3?) my next BAT...

the Barclay tower has nice shapes. A lot of geometry that catches the eye and plays against the light.

Excellent job as always   &apls &apls

you are surely one of the most advanced person which concern the BAT and Sc4.


I checked lot of your creations and asked me why you don't finished (released) some exceptional buildings (the 2 others BAT of Naberejnaïa tower, Hotel Ukraina (could be funny to BAT the current state of FT) or more recent Asian towers, you stopped thess projects ? or will come back on these master pieces ?)

Quote from: Girafe on September 11, 2010, 06:41:08 AM
Excellent job as always   &apls &apls

you are surely one of the most advanced person which concern the BAT and Sc4.


I checked lot of your creations and asked me why you don't finished (released) some exceptional buildings (the 2 others BAT of Naberejnaïa tower, Hotel Ukraina (could be funny to BAT the current state of FT) or more recent Asian towers, you stopped thess projects ? or will come back on these master pieces ?)

I know... &ops
on Simtropolis they had already organized my public flogging and called "those that never made it to STEX" My only solace is that I'm not quite alone there, but in fine company of people like Scotty222, nofunk, Odainsaker etc...
I didn't really stop any of those.. well I had, I think Federation and perhaps RT. Biggest problem for me personally is not to succumb to the temptation to dive into ever so smaller details that take increasing amount of time and effort with ever decreasing visual impact. Consciously I understand futility of such pursuit but... often can't help it. And after some time you get tired from a project, also when it last something like a year in the process you often learn so much that your own work from a year ago become unsatisfactory, yet starting it again from ground up seem too much of a bother.

As to the particular BATs you have mentioned, well I fully intend to finish Ukraina - I do open it now and then and add/change something. And it, albeit very slow is progressing.
Naberaznaja... Well, do you mean/suggest to make two smaller tower to have entire complex?

I understand well the fact that with time your level improves and you can have another look about former project but you can understand too the fact that you show us superb things which will have no end.

Anyway I understand you, and I hope to see progress on Hotel Ukraina, and about Neberejnaia I mean that the current lot is a little bit strange, for me it's a complex with the 2 others small builings and I asked me why you didn't make it because often you make entirely complex with base and good lots.

:)

While that tendency to delve into increasingly minor details must be frustrating at times your phenomenal attention to detail is a huge part of why your creations are as great as they are. I wish you luck on your LEX candidacy, to be honest I thought the only reason you weren't already there is because you didn't want to be. The Barclay tower looks awesome and I look forward to seeing it in my cities  &apls

BTW, I owe you extra thanks for your bats & darknight allowing me to make the picture I recently won the SC4D Best Picture competition (and more recently lost I think :'( )

I love your work Simfox. If your not a professional with 3dsmax you should be  :thumbsup:  I'm trying to figure out how you create your window day/night textures. Do you use different channels? In your last post I noticed how realistic your windows look for both day and night. Just trying to figure out how you do it.
Thanks for your help :)