I'm building a sunken highway network in a city (well, to be a region) and I'm having issues trying to create a tunnel entrance. As you can see from the picture, I have several issues, mostly because of one thing.
No matter what I try, I simply cannot get the slight dip just above the tunnel entrance to get lost. It's making things unsightly, and I cannot place the tunnel entrance a tile further back, so that it juts up right against my planned avenue that would go across as marked by thin green lines.
For these situation, I use some Marrast's old lots, which work fine... I'll try to find a link.....
Quote from: DanFraser on August 17, 2007, 12:02:27 PM
No matter what I try, I simply cannot get the slight dip just above the tunnel entrance to get lost. It's making things unsightly, and I cannot place the tunnel entrance a tile further back, so that it juts up right against my planned avenue that would go across as marked by thin green lines.
You will always get those slight dips. I think the reason is that if the trench were more shallow, the tunnel wouldn't appear in the first place. Instead the highway would cut through the hill. And you will never be able to drag a network next to the tunnel entrance. That could only be achieved by placing a TE lot on top of it.
Finally, you aren't even able to build a tunnel that's got only two tiles between the tunnel openings. The minimum is three tiles.
A solution would however be to build the sunken highway all the way and instead build an avenue bridge across using on-slope puzzle pieces.
Quote from: jeronij on August 17, 2007, 01:13:13 PM
For these situation, I use some Marrast's old lots, which work fine... I'll try to find a link.....
Actually, I'm pretty sure
Marrast (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1032) didn't make a lot with a ground highway below an avenue.
Ah well, I'll continue with how I did it before.
Yes, it can be done and it is quite easy (but it needs some patience - as most things in sc4 :D). I understand you know how to make flat sunken avenue, but I decided to show all process - it can be useful for somebody else.
1. Place the "Hole Digger for Avenue" pieces.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F1310%2Fimg0449impmg8.jpg&hash=96b91085209506244fc3952c80a1a6f619d5c457)
2. Drag an avenue as on picture below.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F2756%2Fimg0450impqh7.jpg&hash=5c53001c3e4ca6582771eeeb44c498cbb1eaae6f)
3. Bulldoze Hole Digger pieces.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F9879%2Fimg0451impmr1.jpg&hash=4d358c639e7f2a0fd1786b1c953135523a1bb12c)
4. Connect both parts of an avenue. Now you have a tunnel.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F3221%2Fimg0452imprr5.jpg&hash=3520b286decfdfb2328e5b5c959969de8247a123)
5. If you want, you can flatten the avenue now. You can use the street tool, starting from the tile showed on the picture below.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F2889%2Fimg0453impzf5.jpg&hash=7baa53f8b1778bc1c5d5f7b2ce73dd0d3becb081)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F6895%2Fimg0454impeo4.jpg&hash=4d623b831503be301f513bb2a330225c18fc314d)
6. Let's say you want to have the sunken part only as wide as the avenue needs (sorry for bad English). Place street tiles along the avenue.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F1993%2Fimg0455impag5.jpg&hash=0732525d935bdaf873b79fcae96ad63657504d63)
7. Now drag a street/road as on picture below.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F5243%2Fimg0456impgg1.jpg&hash=c3250e5295ad07e52a80c57f2b9fc426f756e96b)
8. Bulldoze the street. Now you have a flat sunken avenue with slopes close to i'ts sides.
OK. Now you make the terrain between tunnel entrances completely flat. (as I understand it was your question).
So you have to plop on the slope something wchich will flatten the terrain.
We often use the street/road pieces in such situations, but you can't use it in this case - see below:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F5913%2Fimg0458impdh1.jpg&hash=ddb6c4573a0372e3da228b27a0444ad0c28545ec)
But you can use something else - anything wchich flatten the terrain and can be plopped at the tunnel entrance. Some parks are good in this case (not only parks :D). I used the water tile from Oppie's canal set.
9. Plop the water tile at the tunnel entrance:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F7277%2Fimg0459impas6.jpg&hash=035ec04b9a9d738efeb74417d2aedd417dd5784f)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F773%2Fimg0460impcn9.jpg&hash=dc53d2b4afce15f07e60b8375a623540bbfa6711)
10. Attention - sometimes you can't flatten all the terrain using these tiles. But if you succesfully plopped 1 water tile at each tunnel entrance, you can make the rest of work using street pieces:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F2407%2Fimg0461imptx9.jpg&hash=f9a2e922c2e3a1f160a688a55ebd444df2693569)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F8648%2Fimg0462imptf8.jpg&hash=34d5e3b2ad32a4f1e892edbb7082beff8e8b8fd6)
11. Attention again! You can place the street piece at the tunnel entrance, if the terrain is partially flatten yet. But if you will do it, you will not be able to flatten the next tile using street piece.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F4918%2Fimg0463impwx6.jpg&hash=1da9381eaca33254c3cdc351ec9367f44c9a2dbf)
You must remove the street tile an put the water tile into it's place (compare with previous picture). Now you can flatten all terrain you want.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F4836%2Fimg0466impsu0.jpg&hash=22663985ef3d2ff28178cd99493844c8f77b84bb)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F1326%2Fimg0467impql9.jpg&hash=57fbdb5b4e45abd464054d7db24dd582bf281552)
As you see, if you started from a given level, now you have the terrain lower around your tunnel. You must remember about it.
12. Now you can make what you want:
Avenue with sidewalks
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F7606%2Fimg0469impxd9.jpg&hash=6b8fd9267185bcc0571febda8b1368995647e54d)
Or something like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F885%2Fimg0470impjf5.jpg&hash=4b7eda8160ce485b7e83fd86e6cc254b4a5c4d95)
The custom tunnel entrance from the Buddybud Sunken Highway Set also works well here
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F7762%2Fimg0471impgd1.jpg&hash=3e70e414c3d57b7b41a0bbcb2aeb4d65674d7e98)
I didnt mean Marrast underspasses, I meant one of the first parks lots he made, but I cant find the link in this moment ::) . I'll keep trying to find it ;)
Well, it seems it wont be necessary ... great tutorial Ennedi :thumbsup:
What a wonderful little tutorial. &apls &apls
It like finding those little gems every now and again when you come across or learn how to do something new :thumbsup:
That's a very good tutorial, Ennedi! &apls :thumbsup: &apls
Never see water used in that way before. Great tutorial. :thumbsup:
WOW! Thank you!
Ooh, that's great! That'll help with whenever I need to use tunnels, since I never liked the little sloped area.
Quote from: jeronij on August 17, 2007, 02:19:14 PM
I didnt mean Marrast underspasses, I meant one of the first parks lots he made, but I cant find the link in this moment ::) . I'll keep trying to find it ;)
Well, it seems it wont be necessary ... great tutorial Ennedi :thumbsup:
Marrast Road Side Kit Version 1.1
Quote from: Gradonacelnik on August 17, 2007, 03:26:13 PM
Marrast Road Side Kit Version 1.1
Yes, but it only covers the slope - of course very useful, middle and high wealth versions
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F5065%2Fimg0168impte8.jpg&hash=74e022218d50c18a4f7fdc5db56f906542e97282)
Could you supply a link for that ploppable water you used in the tutorial? I cannot for the life of me find anything like that. And if you know where I can get those walls you have on that slope it would be greatly appreciated!
Edit: Found the water!
Marrast Roadside Kit (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16777)
I'm having trouble with the flattening. For an avenue tunnel it works perfectly. But trying to makea highway tunnel, it only flattens it so far. It still slopes enough to refuse a road or some buildings right near the edge :'(
Yes, you are right - I checked (maybe there is a solution, but I'm not sure and i need more time).
But you can use something else: Marrast M - Tel (Marrast Transport Enabled Lots) (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16688)
One Way
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F198%2Fimg0485impqi4.jpg&hash=c748e19c1deee9ce6a372c38e7c089a118316127)
Road (look at the road signs)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F8009%2Fimg0486imphu8.jpg&hash=2b612cfcdaa9cb0807599d57810e086a5bae30d7)
You can also make something like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F5172%2Fimg0487impof9.jpg&hash=1f342025782ae2d4a4d2b0a0126a610ea3229db2)
Sorry for double post, but I found the solution for highways :D
Making the tunnel use the Hole Digger for avenue (it is 14 m deep), not for highway (it is only 12 m deep). Bulldoze Hole Digger pieces and avenue, drag the highway. You will have a slightly deeper tunnel.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F8712%2Fimg0488impoj2.jpg&hash=3d9b527a0846efe4a2e57b03b340e6afce740a51)
Than flatten the terrain using the same method as for avenue. Now it is a bit more difficult, but still possible. Be careful, street tiles "block" one to another, if it happens, remove street tile and put water tile.
After some experiments...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F8116%2Fimg0491impwe9.jpg&hash=6048a20205113eef88fbfdc0724cdf3a6e7594ba)
And...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F5568%2Fimg0492imprv2.jpg&hash=4ad3174beeff10ded85e5d8dc697bc4261bef999)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F6348%2Fimg0493impfn4.jpg&hash=0aaf8dc0887f396d14838aafda6f8a3c8605f61f)
LoL wow Ennedi i think you realllllllllllllllly should move this into the tutorial section... WOW cause i learned a little bit here and thank you for show how to - pat
That's a great tutorial, Ennedi! :thumbsup:
Thank you all for good opinions, I'm glad this "mini tutorial" is useful :)
@Pat - thank you, yes I think about putting it to the tutorial section. But I think it will be much more interesting to investigate the more complex theme: "How to make multi - level transit networks". There are more problems here - for example:
- How to put a road right near the tunnel entrance
- How to flatten the terrain around the tunnel entrance effectively and in various situations
- How to make very short tunnels
- How to create various tunnel entrances
- How to solve some problems with walls (especially in the corner at the tunnel entrance - they often look ugly)
- How to make soft slopes without angles along roads and other networks
- How to terraform the terrain right near the transit network without demolishing it
- How to work with various slope mods (I would like to compare them)
And some more...
I have also some ideas about connecting old and new possibilities - for example ingame tunnels and Big Dig ;)
I think the first thing to do would be to make a project - it's goal would be collecting these problems and their solutions. Most of these problems are solved yet (it can be seen in various MD's :thumbsup:) and my skills are not as good as many players, so I will need help. After collecting everything we can do a complex guide :D
And @DanFraser - you asked about "these walls on slope" and I'm afraid I didn't understand you... Read this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1939.0) and you will find there links to the Buddybud Sunken Highway walls Set :)
Never mind about the highway walls q, found it :)
Anyway, the water is still not flattening for me. It partially works for the avenue guide, but highways, not in the slightest.
Quote from: Ennedi on August 18, 2007, 04:45:01 AM
Thank you all for good opinions, I'm glad this "mini tutorial" is useful :)
@Pat - thank you, yes I think about putting it to the tutorial section. But I think it will be much more interesting to investigate the more complex theme: "How to make multi - level transit networks". There are more problems here - for example:
- How to put a road right near the tunnel entrance
- How to flatten the terrain around the tunnel entrance effectively and in various situations
- How to make very short tunnels
- How to create various tunnel entrances
- How to solve some problems with walls (especially in the corner at the tunnel entrance - they often look ugly)
- How to make soft slopes without angles along roads and other networks
- How to terraform the terrain right near the transit network without demolishing it
- How to work with various slope mods (I would like to compare them)
And some more...
I have also some ideas about connecting old and new possibilities - for example ingame tunnels and Big Dig ;)
I think the first thing to do would be to make a project - it's goal would be collecting these problems and their solutions. Most of these problems are solved yet (it can be seen in various MD's :thumbsup:) and my skills are not as good as many players, so I will need help. After collecting everything we can do a complex guide :D
Ennedi, this is a very useful (not just "mini") tutorial. And it definitely belongs in the tutorial section.
Do you want to rewrite your "Tunneling Tutorial" there or do you want us to move this thread in its entirety?
I once made a comparison of the different slope mods
here (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=84518).
Feel free to use that information for your tutorials! :thumbsup:
@RippleJet, thank you for your kind words!
Quote from: RippleJet on August 18, 2007, 08:39:41 AM
Do you want to rewrite your "Tunneling Tutorial" there or do you want us to move this thread in its entirety?
I decided I should rewrite it - I would like to put together more "Transit network engineering" themes. So I opened a new topic
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2077.msg61007#msg61007) look at it. I think the tutorial will be more clear and complete if I will make it this way.
QuoteI once made a comparison of the different slope mods here.
Yes I was looking at it a while ago - it's very good :thumbsup:
QuoteFeel free to use that information for your tutorials!
Thank you very much, it will be a great addition!
Thanks for all the help Ennedi. However, I am still unable to flatten properly with the highway tunnel entrance. Zooming in, I can see I am painfully close to being flat, but not enough to lay road right next to the tunnel entrance.
At this point, I'm going to ask what, if any mods you have installed aside from NAM?