SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

As I noted in the post that started this new forum section, my Paint Shop Pro 8 era is over, and I'll be looking for a replacement.  I'll ask that folks who do a lot of graphic work here at SC4D or anywhere on the web or elsewhere let us know what software he or she uses, and make a recommendation.

I'm talking realistic stuff here- if you use some $10,000 proprietary program on a $25,000 workstation, that's probably not going to happen for the rest of us.  But if you use PhotoShop, or Paint Shop Pro, or the GIMP, let us hear from you, and what you like and don't like about it.  Examples of your work are welcome, along with noting any particular features you'd like to point out.  Do the poll, too.  It'll be interesting to see what software, if any, predominates.

Thanks.


David

I use Photoshop CS3 - I upgraded when it came out to take advantage of the new features.

I much prefer it to Paint Shop Pro, it's very user-friendly with a whole bucketload of advanced features that are very useful.


It is expensive software, though, something like $1200 for the whole package. I paid significantly less ($99) because I'm a student.

I prefer Paint Shop Pro. It uses less resources and is less prone to freezing. I like they way they set up the tools also. However, when making textures, I generally use both programs (Paint Shop for most the work, Photoshop for gradient paintbucket and for adjusting the image colors to match the GMax palette). I actually made must the textures on this BAT and on my secret project using Paint Shop Pro. The only time I've opened Photoshop was to make the alpha textures for the latter mentioned.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/phoenixcaptain/SC4/MyHouse.jpg

And a sample of one of the textures from it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/phoenixcaptain/SC4/northwall.jpg

If I had to pick one (I'm fortunate enough to have both), I'd probably pick Paint Shop Pro actually. The fact I do a lot of multitasking is a big reason for this, and the lower memory usage from PSP helps a lot.

I had been using the GIMP, but I've really become a hardcore supporter of vector graphics and really took to Inkscape [linkie] (http://www.inkscape.org/), an open-source (and free) vector graphic editor.  That's what I've been using for all of my maps in Tarkusian Cities, and I even started doing some of my own transit texturing with it.  Most of the way I've worked with non-vector based programs, I've generally been drawn to "line" or "fill" tools, and those are this programs forte, where the GIMP's line drawing options have severely disappointed me.  And I can resize stuff without distortion.  Now I only use GIMP for rasterizing my Inkscape stuff. :D

-Alex

PSP8's raster/vector integration was pretty seamless.  It probably took me a year to really master the use of vector graphics, but their ready availability is a key factor in making my new program choice.  So I guess the GIMP is out, eh?  I've heard good things about it, generally, but didn't know it was raster-only.

Is Inkscape pretty much vector only?


David

Well, GIMP can import vector stuff and export raster stuff in vector formats, but it's raster-based primarily.  There are vector tools, but they seem to be extremely limited.  Beyond that, the interface is quite disorienting, at least in the version I currently am running (2.2.10, they're at 2.2.17 now and working on 2.4).  It's useful for some things, though. 

Inkscape is pretty much vector only, though it's possible to export as a raster file, and you can import rasters to include in the vector document.  The most recent version seems to have added quite a few new features, including effects and PDF export ability.

-Alex

Been using the entire Adobe suite (and their video tools like Premiere and After Effects) for what feels like centuries now, as it's an integral part of my work.  Now up to CS3 on Mac (full suite) and CS2 on PC, both of which are, IMO, untouchable in terms of features, power and effects.  Full integration with other Adobe packages (Illustrator can open PDF files for edit, PS can link to AI files as smart objects, so vector graphics become editable from PS) makes it a must for a graphics pro.  The price tag is steep, but you get 6 full blown packages (Acrobat Pro 8, Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Flash and Dreamweaver) that if you bought separately, would cost a whole lot more.

I also use Adobe Photoshop CS2 and have no complaints! I absolutely love it! Its user-friendly and powerful, at least for the non-hardcore stuff that I do with it.  :P

I would recommend Adobe Photoshop to anyone.  ;D

For graphics stuff, I use a mixture of programs, because none of them has all features that I need occasionally - or they are just too complicated to use. Photoshop is surely one of the most advanced programs around, but the price tag is not for everybody's taste (you're indeed lucky if you can buy it with student discount), and it has a rather steep learning curve as well. For image manipulation and enhancement it's definitely the best, though. When it comes to layout stuff, CorelDraw has always been my favorite. The first version I used was 3.0, which my dad bought ages ago, and now I have 11.0 or so - which is already rather old, but I don't need a newer one. IrfanView is my "swiss army knife" for viewing images, taking screenshots, browsing through my collection (with the thumbnail view), copying images around, scanning individual pages (i. e. for printing as an alternative to xerox them) etc.

But the most amazing piece of software for me when it comes to graphics stuff is Fireworks (formerly Macromedia, now Adobe). I was introduced to that program in university, when they used version 1.0, which was already wonderful. Now I have Fireworks MX, and I don't intend to upgrade, because it can do everything that I need. Apart from the very intuitive user interface (a trademark of all Macromedia programs, I also love Dreamweaver), I simply love the way how it combines vector tools with image editing and (basic) manipulation. Originally, it was intended for making website graphics, but it's also wonderful to use it for editing screenshots (such as for SC4 tutorials :) ), and edit graphics that is intended for viewing purposes on a screen in general.

Lines, shapes, text etc. is treated as objects, which can be edited in vector mode at any time. It's not necessary to add new layers all the time if you add another object, because each layer can hold an unlimited amount of objects, and all can be arranged/modified freely, as if they were separate layers. Also, Fireworks uses PNG as native format, so it's perfect for editing SC4 graphics as well. Any layers etc. are stored in the PNG file (which makes it larger than a "flat" image, obviously), but you can view it with any program without any compatibility issues. Adobe tried to imitate this functionality with their "ImageReady" addon for Photoshop, but never came close. When they bought Macromedia, it was not really surprising for me that they scrapped ImageReader and market Fireworks as premium web graphics program now. ;)

A great bunch of comments- I DL'd a 30 day trial of Corel PSP X2 (I guess that's the current version).  It's fully functional, so I'll give it a spin tonight and let everyone know.

Andreas, I'm also for sure checking out Fireworks.  I remember it from way back a few years ago, but I was pretty much set then and didn't take a hard look.

All you PhotoShoppers- I'm funding-challenged... and jealous as heck!

Great weekend's coming up.


David

I use the Adobe CS too, I find photoshop is just the best thing for photo editing and the like and it's also pretty good for "drawing" stuff. That's not what it's designed for and that's probably why I tend to use Illustrator for that kind of thing. Using Illustrator with a graphics tablet makes life so much easier, and it's really amazing just what the computer can do with regards to making the pen movements look natural.

I downloaded a trial of Fireworks once but never really got to like it, I find that I don't really like the way Macromedia make their interfaces (other than for Dreamweaver which is one of my all time most awe-inspiring programs but never mind that...), I think there's just too much clicking to find exactly what you need. Its probably just that I started with photoshop a long time ago, and so I'm used to that now.

I hope this was of some help  ;) Also, with regards to the whole funding thing, being a student makes life so much more bearable, like just now I ordered 2 large Dominoes pizzas for £10 (~$19) to be delivered, just because I have an NUS card and it's fresher's week!

Fred

I use Photofiltre  and photoshop , however im no good at any image munipulaton

Adobe Photoshop CS3, has some great features for editing RAW pictures, that is photos from my digital camera.

In general i try to use Freeware to suport the movement, because i think that Freeware is the future, however on some points you just dont want to cut the ropes, and i want the best there is in photoediting, and there isnt any program that handles RAW Format pictures as good as CS3.

For use with Sim City my guess is that the GIMP should be sufficent, unless your going to start to photomanipulating(ie actually chaning around stuff in the pictures, adding floors to buildings or combining them, etc) pictures to a great extent.

The GIMP is a good choice.  It's a great piece of software and, since it's free, if you don't like it, it's not a major loss to you. 

The answer to this question really depends on the type of graphics the designer wants to create, and if he has had experience in creating graphics.

I would recommend PhotoFiltre (Yes, spelled correctly.) to any young designer who's just getting started. Familiarization with the simple tools offered in PhotoFiltre is exceedingly helpful in more complex programs, but meanwhile, usage of PhotoFiltre is endless and quality designs can be created out of it, no doubt.

Obviously the next step up would be PhotoShop, the program which I am using currently. It's much more complex, but at the same time it's a very experimental program. Tools in PhotoShop can be used with countless variations, but how you incorperate those tools in your graphics is really the key to a good design. I use Photoshop CS3, and am lovin' it!

I really want to get Fireworks, as most all of my graphics I make for my site, exactly what this software specializes in. I envy anyone using it. $%Grinno$% My next step will be to download the free trial.

Quote from: bwatterud on October 06, 2007, 08:32:51 PM
The GIMP is a good choice.  It's a great piece of software and, since it's free, if you don't like it, it's not a major loss to you.

The disadvantage of the GIMP is the absurdly horrible GUI system. I took one look at that and boy, you should have seen my face. :)
I've tried Illustrator and InDesign, but they really don't appeal to me.

I won't name any names, but references like this

QuoteHowever, I have a slight advantage over most of you - my mom's technical assistant hacked photoshop along with some other CS3 programs onto my Mac 2008 for free. &sly

after this warning will lead to an immediate and permanent termination of SC4D membership, and likely without prior warning.  We do not condone or tolerate any illegal activity or discussion of illegal activity involving software, period.  This is a practice common across the board at every legitimate SC4 fansite I'm aware of, and here is no different.


David

I'm running on CS3 as well... works like a champ, but it sure is expensive!

QuoteAdobe tried to imitate this functionality with their "ImageReady" addon for Photoshop, but never came close

I miss ImageReady, it suited my needs very well. But now, I've got Fireworks CS3 lying around on a DVD somewhere (I never bothered to install it, as a matter of fact).

But Acrobat 8 Pro is probably the most useful program for me at the moment...

As for Corel, I got a free version once (version 7), and I quite liked it, but I soon discarded it in favour of Photoshop CS (and I've stuck with Photoshop since then), which I got for free (not illegally downloaded).

EDIT: For Photoshop, I've never had it crash on me. Though, I seriously recommend min. 1GB of RAM to ensure the program will run smoothly (in fact, Adobe's installer won't even run unless you've got 1GB or more in the system); 2GB if you want to use multiple RAM-hogging programs at once (I get a bit of slowdown with Illustrator, Photoshop, and SC4 running at the same time; because they're all memory hogs).


By the way, I think it is possible to pick up old versions of Photoshop for free, or for a very cheap price (say, 7.0)... (EDIT: Legally, of course!)

I've mostly just used PSP7 (Paint Shop Pro 7) to do all of my texture work for the RHW system.  Plus I've used it to do my NASCAR paint schemes that I work on (see sig).  I honestly thing that PSP7 was the best in that series because I know several people that still use it in my NR2003 community.

However, there is one downside with PSP7, it can only open 100 layers on one file.  Any above that number will not load and you need PSP8 or higher to access them. I have 9 installed to use on files that PSP7 will not open, but I stick with 7 because I've practically mastered it. ;)

Photoshop dominating. And who voted for irfanview? It can't edit (I believe)

I use CS2

I use PhotoShop CS, but also IrfanView.

Mostly to screendumps from the game, resizing of the pictures.
Especially when I am working with automata skins, I work with the skins in double or four times the final size.
I save the skins from PhotoShop in oversize and then resized them in IrfanView to the final size.


....and it does save the jpg to a smaller file size than PhotoShop.

Quote from: vester on October 14, 2007, 01:15:29 PM
....and it does save the jpg to a smaller file size than PhotoShop.

Is that using Photoshop's "Save for Web" option?  I've never come across another piece of software to beat this compression algorithm and would be interested if it was better than SfW.  Photoshop's Save As facility with JPEG is intended to keep as much original data as possible (if set to Max 12, the loss is negligible) whereas SfW is designed for maximum compression at cost to quality (within reason).

I have Paint Shop X.

I have an old copy of photoshop from work (I grabbed it from the bin when they were throwing stuff away) but as I was already fluent with Paint Shop I stick with it. Except when I want to resize images for the WEB. Then I use Photoshop.

"See my purse, I'm a poor, poor man...." ;D

So The GIMP for me.  I've even linked to it in the Pic Contest rules.  I'm not trying to do anything too complicated, and it's been able to handle everything I've asked it to so far.  If you have no money but still want something like Photoshop, I'd recommend The GIMP.  If you have money and are willing to spend it, I'd grab something else...although there's a new GIMP coming out really soon, so who knows?

Anyone know where that quote is from? ;)

There is a plugin on the Internet that makes the GIMP look like Photoshop, including fixing its UI problems. It's potentially useful, because about the only think I didn't like about the GIMP was the multiple windows with no 'canvas' background that kept everything together in the one tab on the taskbar, like Photoshop does. It made things very difficult to keep track of.

I just heard from a few mates over IRC, that Gimp has been released in a new beta, one that includes most features and functions of photoshop, including handling of camera raw's. so if everything goes as planned it will probably get a major update sometime soon, and my bet is that the beta is good enough to be used too(its a public one from what ive heard).

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 21, 2007, 10:25:34 PM
There is a plugin on the Internet that makes the GIMP look like Photoshop, including fixing its UI problems. It's potentially useful, because about the only think I didn't like about the GIMP was the multiple windows with no 'canvas' background that kept everything together in the one tab on the taskbar, like Photoshop does. It made things very difficult to keep track of.

From what I here, that plugin is buggy and not recommended to be used...

Quote from: Xiziz on October 22, 2007, 06:31:42 AM
I just heard from a few mates over IRC, that Gimp has been released in a new beta, one that includes most features and functions of photoshop, including handling of camera raw's. so if everything goes as planned it will probably get a major update sometime soon, and my bet is that the beta is good enough to be used too(its a public one from what ive heard).

Yes, GIMP 2.4...been waiting for a while for this, and it's coming out soon!  One of the non-gaming programs I'm most excited about this year! ;D

I think I may have tried the plugin SA mentioned for The GIMP, the background window plugin.  It's nice, but then you can't close the background window without Ctrl-Alt-Delete-ing it.  So it's really kind of a nuisance.  Needless to say, I removed it rather quickly. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

New GIMP 2.4 out now! ;D ;D ;D

For the resizing I use clip2pic.

Not just useful for SC4

Thanks for the heads up, Masochist.  Already downloaded and installed it.  GIMP 2.4 a great deal smoother and quicker than 2.2, and it seems they've added a few new tools, some of which I have yet to figure out what they are.  Seems like they've made some significant improvements this version. :)

-Alex (Tarkus)

The only thing they need to do for the GIMP is add a background window. One that actually works.

PhotoFiltre is WAY better than Paint and very easy to use.

I use Photoshop CS3.

QuotePhotoFiltre is WAY better than Paint and very easy to use.

Anything is better than Paint, you know. :P

Iight now I use IrfanView for image format (ie .png to .jpg) converting and that's about it. I'm planning on getting Inkscape and the GIMP installed at some point....once my mom removes the d*mn parental controls on my computer!

In some ways I REALLY hate Vista. Most paranoid OS I've ever had...

Quote
In some ways I REALLY hate Vista. Most paranoid OS I've ever had...

Eh, it's not that bad. If you don't mind the Narrator sounding like a dominatrix, that is.

Thank God I figured how to turn it off. :P

Well, I'll admit I'm the only one that's technically proficient in my family...

i use cs3

I dont edit images... but if i did, i could choose between GIMP, CS3, or Paint ... and tbh i would probably choose Paint because it is so easy.... just time consuming LOL, and then i would chose GIMP cause I love Opensource

Joe

I use Paint Shop Pro, and I would strongly recommend to the others.
It's handy, simple, fast, and considerably cheaper than anything else (but it's a commercial product that gets support and updates, not freeware). The only missing features (compared to Photoshop) is just some few effects like eyecandy or inner glow. Unless you need features like the above, it should be the onvious choice.

I use photofilter as my primary editing tool well err umm as i guess you could call it  ;)  I do have the GIMP as well but im slowly learning it...

Photoshop, no question.

I've tried others like GIMP, Paint Shop Pro, Open Canvas and Corel Painter but they just don't compare, although, Corel Painter is more of an advanced virtual Art set for Concept Artists and such rather than a Photomanipulation tool. Open Canvas is pretty close to Photoshop though...

Not sure if you're still looking. I use Photoshop Elements 3. I have Elements 6 which I've installed at work but not at home yet, and not sure if I will because 6 looks rather bloated and more dumbed down.  Previously I was using Photoshop 6.

Elements 3 is pretty great. It really does a lot of what PS does and is good for the "I'm not an amateur but I'm never going to be a professional" user for a fraction of the cost. I think I've seen Elements 6 for $83'ish online and $89 at Best Buy. I checked out this fabulous book from the library called The Photoshop Elements 3 Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby. It has a ton of useful information, techniques and tips and workarounds for many of the Photoshop features left out of Elements. 

The only thing that drives me crazy about the program is the Organizer, which I never use, although Scott Kelby's book includes a chapter on getting the most out of it.

Anyway I'm a couple months late with my opinion, but just in case you haven't purchased anything yet, thought I'd chime in.

paint.net 100% free, no 30 day limit stuff, looks alot like Photoshop, worx and does effects just like Photoshop. Really really, really replicates it in my opinion, except easy to use tools, I ended up self learning the program. Also gets updated every once and a while for new features, everytime Adobe updates, or comes up with new stuff, usually you have to cough up more.

I'm currently running Photoshop CS4. Great piece of software.

Just recently upgraded from CS2.

I use either Paint.NET and/or The Gimp.

Both of which can load / save Fsh files directly  ()flamdev()

I use several programs to achieve the results I am looking for. I began my journey with Corel 1.2, using X4 now. Corel Photopaint has superior masking and clone tool capabilities. Corel Draw beats Illustrator in every way for artistic vector graphics. I added Photoshop elements 3 at first now up to 7, because of pressure from clients who had heard of Photoshop and decided that was the inexpensive way to decide and learn if photoshop was the right tool. And it is in certain areas. I now have CS4 Production Premium (I produce video as well as graphics) but jump between Corel products and Adobe products (I still keep elements available for the skin color correction tool) within each contract requirement. Heck if something new came down the pike, I would check it out as well. I am always looking for the best tool for the job.

My personal favorite graphics editing software would for sure have to be Paint. Net. Lots of you may not have heard of it, but it is a pretty good image editing program. It's free and open-source, which I like. There are so many additional things on it instead of plain ol' MS paint. For those who are on a budget and need some good picture editing software, getpaint.net (http://getpaint.net)!  ;)  :thumbsup:

Primarily I use Photoshop, but for such a large and expensive program, there's a surprising amount of things it just doesn't do very well.  Drawing small detailed images, such as textures for SC4, can be quite frustrating at times. The following points apply to CS2. I don't know if later versions are any different.
- Photoshop's paths and curves are extremely slow and cumbersome to use. Almost every other drawing package uses the simple line-with-anchors method, but Photoshop does it completely differently. You draw a line, not to the point where you want to finish, but in the direction you want to start. Then you have to try and bend the line to where you want it to go.
- It doesn't allow you to attach a copied brush to your cursor. You can achieve the same thing with copy and paste, but having the brush actually on your cursor is so much quicker.
- It doesn't give you any preview when you're using the predefined brushes.
- It doesn't do dotted lines.
- The healing tool, while usually very useful, often fails to work properly and lightens or darkens the area being healed.
- It can bend and warp part of an image, but it doesn't give you a preview when doing that, so the feature is fairly useless for detailed work. (I think this is better in CS3 though)

So to complement Photoshop I use Personal Paint, which is an ancient Amiga program dating from 1997. Some of you may remember Deluxe Paint and it's exactly the same except it supports PNG, GIF, JPG, and pretty much any other file format thanks to the magic of the Amiga datatypes system.


To give Photoshop its due, there are a number of things it does very well. The layer support is excellent, selection options are much better then other packages I've used, the range of drawing styles (soft light, colour burn, etc) is excellent, the text handling is very good.

I use MS Paint and Photoshop. I'm combining the pro's of the two to make my textures  ;)

I use Paint.Net. Its easy and it has all the features I have ever needed so far for game and BAT texturing. I have tried photoshop, but I eventually decided that it would be too hard to learn quickly, so I stuck with Paint.Net

GIMP 2.6.4 - I've been using GIMP for about 2-3 years now, I'm used to it and all the features and with it I can create very nice aircraft liveries! ;D

QuoteI use either Paint.NET and/or The Gimp.
Both of which can load / save Fsh files directly

I didn't know that! ;D

I use Photoshop CS4 and absolutely love its features and relative ease of use over CS2/3.

Cheers,
Kevin

I use mainly Irfanview and Paintshop Pro 5.01 (yup, that old).

For making snapshots, Batch conerting resizing etc. Irfanview is my first choice, while for cutting images, making Text etc on them or for occasionally texture work I use PaintShop.

Quote from: null45 on April 25, 2009, 08:22:19 PM
I use either Paint.NET and/or The Gimp.

Both of which can load / save Fsh files directly  ()flamdev()

I just noticed this now, and am very intrigued--how are you doing it?

Thanks,
Alex

Photoshop CS2 is my primary program.

Quote from: Tarkus on July 28, 2009, 03:19:46 PM
I just noticed this now, and am very intrigued--how are you doing it?
Thanks,
Alex

Quote from: pilotdaryl on July 28, 2009, 11:27:17 AM
GIMP 2.6.4 - I've been using GIMP for about 2-3 years now, I'm used to it and all the features and with it I can create very nice aircraft liveries! ;D
I didn't know that! ;D

Yeah,I'm interested in how that is also...using(loose term) 2.6.6 and did not see anywhere .fsh. So is there a plugin?

Jayson

I wrote a File Type plug-in for Paint.NET, that plug-in is at http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8759.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8759.0)

And I also wrote a File Type plug-in for The Gimp, although the plug-in for the Gimp relies on over a dozen other libraries.
I use Gimp 2.6.5.

Both of which use DarkMatter's FshLib to load / save FSH files.

I used to use Irfanview and still do for some things, but now I use the GIMP.

Speaking of which, null45, you really should release those filetype plugins. They would be INFINITELY useful.

EDIT: NVM, I found his release of these things for the GIMP, so I'm happy.

SimCity is the only reason I use image editing software.  I have been using GIMP for screenshots and  texture work.  The  downside is that it can not handle 16bit PNGs, which is what I want for making regions (although perhaps a beta version does, they are working on 1.8 right now).  My photoshop trial is counting down.

So far on this page I have seen Paint.net and Inkscape.  The GIMP FAQ refers me to Krita (http://krita.org/features) as a way to edit 16 bit pngs.  I don't know anything about this stuff.  Which of these open source programs can do 16 bit?  One thing I like about GIMP is that a pasted layer can be dragged around (My region is an island chain, so I have been cut/pasting islands to better fit a config).  I have been having a hard time getting precision pastes with photoshop.

Thanks :)

I actually use three, depending on what I am doing.

For general stuff, Jasc PSP works well enough.  Though I have used Gimp and Paint.net for resizing as the Jasc resizing has a bad habit of distorting the image.

If you are just doing quick photo editing, Jasc PSP works fine as an alternative to Photoshop.