SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Due to popular demand, I have begun work on converting the El-rail Facelift Mod to monorail:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F4393%2Fmi08010801monorailvd9.jpg&hash=c5b21c1a2d68ad317d1e0f5b462041dff9301151)

I'm opening this thread mainly to keep myself motivated, as I have a very low opinion on the default Disneyworld-runaway monorail (I honestly don't know what you people see in it..  :D) and the conversion is quite monotonous work.

That said, I've also started a project that I personally find much more interesting:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg169.imageshack.us%2Fimg169%2F7707%2Fmi08010802elevatedhighwey8.jpg&hash=9a8f3e6e8da229e02fe11802a7f7de16ac88bff0)

I'm also planning on revisiting the old mod to add some features I omitted before (e.g. oneway road intersections).

Ooh, great work! Personally I sometimes use the monorail for airport trams, but other than that I never use it because it's not very realistic.

Although, I'm glad you're working on the elevated highway too. I think what would work well with the elevated highway is if you had some of the textures be parking lots. Even if they're not functional, it would look great in high-density areas.

-- John

Quote from: MIncroabl on January 08, 2008, 10:48:00 AM
I'm opening this thread mainly to keep myself motivated, as I have a very low opinion on the default Disneyworld-runaway monorail (I honestly don't know what you people see in it..  :D) and the conversion is quite monotonous work.

::)

Pitäähän kaikille kirjoittaville apinoille tarjota mahdollisuus nauttia kyöstin taidoista!

That was just to spur his motivation! ;D

Quote from: MIncroabl on January 08, 2008, 10:48:00 AM
That said, I've also started a project that I personally find much more interesting:

&dance

Sweeeeeet 2 more new faces, talk about getting a brand new SC4!!!  Thank you MIncroabl....

This is great news, about the el highway, that is.

&apls
Robin  :thumbsup:

Thanks to MIncroabal, I will actually might use monorail some day :P

and RippleJet:  $%Grinno$%

RippleJet:  ;D :D

Quote from: DFire870 on January 08, 2008, 11:14:34 AM
I think what would work well with the elevated highway is if you had some of the textures be parking lots. Even if they're not functional, it would look great in high-density areas.

Not a bad idea at all, though the parking lots would look a bit odd, as the parked cars would probably be cut off from roads. I'll keep your suggestion in mind though, as I have to create brand new prop setups for the highways.

Looks great - I'm really glad to see it get extended to el highway! :)

Awesome, now my ghettoed elevated highways won't look so, countryish!

Quote from: MIncroabl on January 08, 2008, 11:55:38 AM
Not a bad idea at all, though the parking lots would look a bit odd, as the parked cars would probably be cut off from roads. I'll keep your suggestion in mind though, as I have to create brand new prop setups for the highways.

Oh yeah, that's true... I use frontage roads so for me the parking lots would be connected to the roads. Perhaps you could rotate the parking lots so that the entry/exit points run along the length of the elevated highway, so when a road/avenue crosses underneath the parking lots would have an exit or whatever.

-- John

I don't know if it provides motivation but I personally am thrilled  &apls you are adapting the mod for monorail. One of the reasons monorail looks so unrealistic is the supports running through the middle of cities on plain grass. Of course the default monorail skin is also hideous. I would never use it if it weren't for the few custom skins that are out there... ;)

i actually dont use the dinky monorail style but rather the HSRP mod just for aesthetic reasons :thumbsup:

Personally, I love the monorail - of course with a custom skin as well. I can understand that some people think of Disneyland in the first place, but with a proper setup, it can be a very effective mean of transportation. Also, the number of BATted stations is rather (way too) low, so you don't get much variety in the game. Regarding the parking lots beneath the highway, that would be very appropriate indeed - and even more appropriate if Shadow Assassin releases his "urban highways". As for the road access, just look at the in-game buildings and where Maxis has placed those parking lots and garages. ;)

i love this new project!
as i almost never use monorail, i'm mostly interested in el-highway mod.

mauricio.

I was pretty happy to discover that the conversion process is much faster than I had originally thought. It takes me about 25 minutes to convert one full set, including the additional prop lots. This has allowed me to complete the industrial part of this mod in record time:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg246.imageshack.us%2Fimg246%2F6877%2Fmi09010802monorailimqb1.jpg&hash=17d50bceed2b73f817a315fd109a4f7997a5153a)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg256.imageshack.us%2Fimg256%2F1866%2Fmi09010801monorailihthi9.jpg&hash=956be47bac033bf06f20c9132742f901c2c6e9d2)

As it can be seen in the pictures, most of the intersections are complete too. The rest of the mod won't be complete overnight, but I can guarantee it'll be faster than the previous one, as I don't have to create anything new.

Quote from: Andreas on January 09, 2008, 03:14:00 AM
Regarding the parking lots beneath the highway, that would be very appropriate indeed - and even more appropriate if Shadow Assassin releases his "urban highways". As for the road access, just look at the in-game buildings and where Maxis has placed those parking lots and garages. ;)

Yup, I've noticed that. That's why one of my projects a year or two ago was that I created new exemplars for every Maxis building and lots to go with them. I may even have a solution to the road connection issue too.

hey mincroabl:

dont forget to make a sandstone version!  ;D

25 minutes :o
You're fast! I wish I could produce quality bats as fast as you produce quality mods :P

Quote from: Filasimo on January 09, 2008, 09:36:25 AM
dont forget to make a sandstone version!  ;D

The props used are the same as in the el-rail mod, so sandstone is guaranteed.

Quote from: Krio on January 09, 2008, 09:39:16 AM
25 minutes :o

Well, all I have to do is change 3 properties and one IID in every exemplar of the el-rail mod, so it doesn't take that long.

Quote from: Krio on January 09, 2008, 09:39:16 AM
25 minutes :o
You're fast! I wish I could produce quality bats as fast as you produce quality mods :P

Well, you'll have to keep in mind that the original mod needed more like 25 hours per set to create... ;)

Looking great so far! But now it clearly shows that the in-game monorail supports don't exactly win a beauty contest. :P It didn't look that bad on the green grass, but concrete on concrete is quite an eyesore. Not that I would mind, though.

Well I think it looks great! Big improvement... can't wait... :thumbsup:

now this looks promising!
i never liked those 'plain grass' under the monorail, or the EL-rail, or the EHW..
keep it motivated!!  ;)

Looking good.. glad you decided to go back and polish it up!

I found some errors in the el-rail mod files that I thought I'd warn you about: If you do not install the I-d/I-m files, you will experience blank spots. This is because the exemplars that overwrite the default Maxis T21s are only included in the aforementioned file. Another issue is that the C-$ T21s have accidentally also been included in the C-$$/C-$$$ file. I'm guessing these bugs won't affect too many people, as most will probably install all the files. These issues will be fixed once I get back to the el-rail mod.

I've almost converted everything there is to convert for the monorail:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg180.imageshack.us%2Fimg180%2F4660%2Fmi11010801monorailcompiuk9.jpg&hash=7a85c10b0d09aa05d372fa4438ad3d815c8271b3)

All that remains is the R-$ files. Once they are done, I can focus on the elevated highway version and upgrading the el-rail.

You are legend!

Not that I want to hijack your thread, but here's a pic that shows what I'm working on:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F1107%2Fsfbtrailtexturesmodnf6.jpg&hash=1bc0d2c0e3f2afd4f78e257d28ddc74731aa29d5)

As you might have noticed, the brown dirt disappeared below the rails and was replaced by grass and concrete that matches the zone density and wealth levels, just like you're doing it with the elevated networks. More to come later (in the SFBT thread). :)

Oh your're both making my day. Thanks to both of you for your excellent work.

@Andreas:
That looks very nice! Are you using T21s and props or some wealth dependant textures?

Thanks! I use wealth-dependent textures - fortunately this works with the railways. :)

These are really great developments....
Some time ago I rebuilt my complete plugins folder. I had hoped that I could work with it for some time, but hey.... Every week I see new developments.
Would it also be an idea to construct overhanging lots that cover under Higway, elevated rail etc?
Some of these already exist, of course.

The work MIncroable is doing avoids the need for overhanging lots by adding it directly to the network

Yes, Diggis, I know that.
Just: overhanging lots have the advantage that you can fill in the spaces in a way you want. On the other hand they have the disadvantage that it is a lot of work.
I could perfectly live with either of both options.
I tend to be not be able to live with the options of perfect green grass under my highways and elevated rails. Did the people from EA ever take a look under existing HW or ER?

This is an Awesome Mod. I'm glad I read every text before I asked a question. I'm still not sure if you made this or not. If not is it possible to put the Facelift Optional in some areas?


-DrPepper

Quote from: DrPepper on January 15, 2008, 09:12:30 AM
This is an Awesome Mod. I'm glad I read every text before I asked a question. I'm still not sure if you made this or not. If not is it possible to put the Facelift Optional in some areas?


-DrPepper

If you want the mod not to affect some zone (density,wealth), you can take the corresponding file out of your plugins folder. Otherwise, if you don't want the texture to appear under certain parts of your network, you'll unfortunately have to create some sort of workaround, like parks, to prevent the effect.

Quote from: FrankU on January 14, 2008, 07:02:16 AM
Yes, Diggis, I know that.
Just: overhanging lots have the advantage that you can fill in the spaces in a way you want. On the other hand they have the disadvantage that it is a lot of work.
I could perfectly live with either of both options.
I tend to be not be able to live with the options of perfect green grass under my highways and elevated rails. Did the people from EA ever take a look under existing HW or ER?

You can still use lots with overhanging props. Remember though, the end result depends much on how the overhanging props have been rendered. My props are just plain planes with textures rendered at 0m height. The overhanging props must be higher to cover the el-rail props under.


To those wondering and who haven't read the readme, the reason why I chose not to include parks, landmarks or civic buildings in this mod is that all these are collected into a single 'civic' zone type value in T21s. I decided to leave them out because there really isn't any texture that would fit all of them. Bricks would not fit green parks and green grass would look weird next to landmarks and civic structures. This way, you can use civic structures as a sort of buffer to prevent the textures from appearing.

Great! :D

Well, whatever I said before: great work! I will surely use them.
Good that you make the mod modular: that we can choose what part to use.
Thank you very much!  &apls

I've completed the monorail conversion. Quite some time ago, actually... been busy playing for a change  :P. Now I have to make some adjustments to the original el-rail mod, implement those additions to the monorail version, and it will be done.

In the meanwhile, I've been experimenting with the parking lot idea for the highways, and came up with this:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg139.imageshack.us%2Fimg139%2F2299%2Fmi21010801highwaypattervr5.jpg&hash=b8947d55ab1850980a64d3ffe1df5a404096ee69)

Bear in mind that this just an initial layout describing the textures and their pattern. As you can see in the picture, there will be an exit every 4 tiles so that you can use TE lots to provide a visual connection between the parking lots and roads/streets. I'm currently trying to decide if I should increase the distance between exits to every 5th. This way, there would be 4 tiles of parking lots between the exits, a figure I personally like as I prefer using 2 tile deep zones. I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

Oh, as you can see, I'm also planning to change the pattern of the lamps on the highway to a more organized/realistic one while I'm on it.

Great work!
How about if you drag a street half way under the highway it makes an entry/exit?
RULs could be made for that probably.

Perhaps you can leave te 5 or 3 tile option to the user?  I am enjoying the pattern, though.  Continue pleeeze!

@Warrior:
You know, that is an excellent idea! And yet another reason for me to start learning RULs.

@rushman5:
That would be doable, but I think I'm going to give Warrior's idea a try first. It's a simple solution, with which every player can decide their own way to build the connections and reduces the amount of different files and my work.

Hey your part of the NAM team now just ask someone to help you we all have specific areas we are good at, yours is the much needed T21s

Yeah, why waste one of the only people doing T21's when we are inundated with people who *cough* ENJOY!?! RUL's  :P

@Warrior & Diggis:
Yeah, I know, but I've been wanting to learn some RUL basics for along time. This is just another reason to learn.

I don't think we'll let you.  Now get back to work!  :P

I like your parking lots very much. I don't really care what distance you make between the entrances. Choose for yourself. I will use them anyway.

But I have an idea: is it possible to give the elevated highways, where there are no adjacent lots, a run down sandy or muddy look? More or less like the dirt roads? Because that is probably what the ground under the highways look in real life.

I love your mod for el-rail! One request though. Would it be possible to do a no-zone version, meaning that there would be textures underneath el-rail regardless if there's development next to it. Something like this (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17696) mod.

I would also like some texture provided for parks, civic and landmarks, despite the diversity between types of lots in those three categories. I would think a green park texture with some flora would be suitable enough for all three...

 All I can say is:
&apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls

While I've been browsing through the NAM files, I've made some T21s for the network tiles it has added that I consider essential:

Some double networks running under el-rail:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F5097%2Fmi08012903monorail03zv6.jpg&hash=b5e707e8f10c45aa95214a70650af38d2f6860d7)

Diagonal streets:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg238.imageshack.us%2Fimg238%2F7044%2Fmi08012902monorail02tm6.jpg&hash=f11d92a634e1fe4924349eb7ddbba0549db05d02)

Unfortunately the tile with diagonal el-rail and rail/OWR cannot be affected with this mod, as the zone triggering the props has to be no more than one tile away. I'm not going to add a similiar T21 for double roads, because I've never seen anyone do them and do not ever expect to. The rest of the network tiles are just road stubs and corners under the el-rail that I'm not going to bother with. Well actually, now that I think about, I'll add the corners, as they are quick to do and most likely somebody would miss them.

I've also added OWRs to the list of intersections:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg89.imageshack.us%2Fimg89%2F4125%2Fmi08012901monorail01zh0.jpg&hash=8237d7388065eecfb75ecca127f87f7396c153f2)

Quote from: FrankU on January 23, 2008, 03:25:10 AM
But I have an idea: is it possible to give the elevated highways, where there are no adjacent lots, a run down sandy or muddy look? More or less like the dirt roads? Because that is probably what the ground under the highways look in real life.

Quote from: metasmurf on January 23, 2008, 04:06:32 AM
I love your mod for el-rail! One request though. Would it be possible to do a no-zone version, meaning that there would be textures underneath el-rail regardless if there's development next to it. Something like this (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17696) mod.

Both ideas are possible, I'll have to see what I can do when I start the primary work on the elevated highways. I'll definitely add a no-zone set because of the new street light configuration I'll use.

Quote from: snorrelli on January 23, 2008, 05:07:31 AM
I would also like some texture provided for parks, civic and landmarks, despite the diversity between types of lots in those three categories. I would think a green park texture with some flora would be suitable enough for all three...

I've been bouncing a similiar idea around myself. It would be quite easy to create a new set with some formal looking hedgerows and/or other flora that could fit all.

Nothing will ever be perfect. The small glitches I see in your pics are probably very hard to change, so I say: let it be as it is. it's a great work you have done here!
Thanks for that.

agreed.. but then I see little reason to be picky about things other people do for the game.. :) I mean if you don't like it that much you can either not use it or change it yourself.. hehe

what you have is a major improvement.. thanks for your work...

This is a great mod, and I personally like the idea of the parking lots under the E-highway (from picture on page- 2). I think that these would be perfect in commercial/industrial zoned areas, as I've seen this in several cities across the states.

I must say thanks to you as well. :thumbsup: There were several times that I didn't want a "el-rail above an empty grass space", which it felt out of space for me. I especially liked having the commercial pavements under the el-rail, between the commercial zone and a road. At this point, I've got a few questions/requests:

1. Will there be one for the NAM's High-Speed Rail, or is this function already "inherited" from the default Monorail?
EDIT: Actually...maybe not... :-[ ...; sorry to say this, but I haven't seen any pedestrian pavements under the tracks of the Shinkansen in Tokyo (my home city, by the way). Although then again, I haven't even seen the TGV at all, and only rode the ICE for an hour in Switzerland. For the ICE, I haven't seen any elevated sections. Any witnesses?

2. Now, what pavements shall we have for Civic Buildings? (I personally am thinking of Medium/High-Wealth Commercial Pavements for Police Stations, Big Hospitals, and other Landmark type Civic Buildings...)

3. Is it also possible to not just have the el-rail pavement adjacent to the zone, but also for another tile beyond as well?

Anyway, keep up your awesome work! &apls &apls

Firstly HSR is not part of the NAM ... yet and secondly the current version will "inherit" the pavements, but the version I am working on will not.

Quote from: Henry Midfields on February 10, 2008, 07:23:53 AM
1.
2.
3.

1. - As Warrior stated, the monorail version will work with the current incarnation of HSR, with the exception of the longer curves (I'd think, correct me if I'm wrong).

2. - I haven't decided yet, but I was thinking along the lines of a very tidy garden layout with trees, flowers and shrubs arranged in formal patterns. This is as far as I can see the only real possibility, as any kind of pavement or brick base looks absolutely horrible going through parks, whereas grass seems quite neutral next to landmarks and civic buildings.

3. - Unfortunately, no. T21 network lots have some drawbacks to them, and this is one.


I haven't really made any significant progress with the highways lately, except that I found out that the new RULs for the street connections isn't perfect after all. This is because I (currently) have no reliable way to have the props appear on top of the street part of the 3d network model. I also realised that it isn't possible to have the street connections every 5th tile either, due to the limitations of T21 pattern sizes. So, it seems I'll eventually go for the pattern I showed earlier.

Even though I haven't made any progress with the highways, I haven't been completely sitting on my hands:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg178.imageshack.us%2Fimg178%2F5971%2Fmi08021101pedmallsyu5.jpg&hash=835c24471ea847dc2f2cadd79d31c192ba501592)

That is the result of about half an hour of playing with T21s for fun. Can you guess which network was the target? I'll give you a hint: it isn't streets, and it isn't elevated..  ;)

as if we are playing jeopardy: " Ill take 'adding T21s to pedmall tiles for 1000 Alex!' "  :D

Ahh, finally someone grabbed the bland ped-malls and turned them into something beautiful. :) I envision a "PAM" (Pedmall Addon Mod) someday, with multiple starter puzzle pieces for the different texture styles, and various T21's that add pedestrians, lampposts, benches, trees, trashcans and the like. :)

Quote from: MIncroabl on February 11, 2008, 10:42:30 AM

2. - I haven't decided yet, but I was thinking along the lines of a very tidy garden layout with trees, flowers and shrubs arranged in formal patterns. This is as far as I can see the only real possibility, as any kind of pavement or brick base looks absolutely horrible going through parks, whereas grass seems quite neutral next to landmarks and civic buildings.

Exactly! :thumbsup:

The ped mall markets look great too...

Sorry, haven't given an update for weeks now. The fact is that I've been a bit tangled with RL and when I've had the time, I've found playing the game for a change more enjoyable. I did, however, get something done today:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F3888%2Fmi08030301elrail01ng2.jpg&hash=c4032d62e78d8f4121eb927298def60af657be21)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F1436%2Fmi08030302elrail02is8.jpg&hash=c9531b31d30b1cf92233740731209d00b6d5d849)

This is what I had in mind for the civic T21s. I've made use of placement patterns here, so the prop setups are not random this time. Naturally, I've used prop families so that they won't be too repetive. It also seems that the grass prop needs some minor texture adjustments. That'll be pretty simple, not counting the horrendous amount of trial and error renders I'm in for (If any BAT texturing experts happen to wander here, any tips are appreciated).

As for the elevated highways, for some extraordinary reason I haven't gotten the T21s to work on any other network tiles but straight diagonal and orthogonal ones. I'm certain though that I'll fix that issue once I find the time/energy.

nice to hear you're still around this.
and btw, looking really nice :thumbsup:

mauricio.

great work! ill get it when it comes out :)

That looks really good. Those are some tough flowers to grow in the shade.

Looks nice MIncroabl, I think they'll blend in with parks, plazas, and civic buildings nicely.

I had a suggestion though, in the current release, some of the tree props you used are a bit too tall and clip through the track. I think it's some of the commercial ones, but I'm not certain. I can try for screens if you want them.

I think they look great, MIncroabl. :thumbsup: Works fine among the landmarks and in the park setting - much better than bare ground.

Quote(If any BAT texturing experts happen to wander here, any tips are appreciated).

Do you use Photoshop?

I have an .acv file [used for colour adjustment] that adjusts/offsets the colour. The result is, it comes out perfect in-game, as it is specifically designed to offset by the amount that the renderer outputs.

Throw me a PM, and I'll send you the file.

This looks great within parks and such. Good work!
I like it, but I think you did even too much.
I think you should not place trees and lampposts. They fill the lots too much and indeed, as kassarc16, already stated: trees should never interfere with the tracks. I think the public transport authorities would not allow that.
The flowers are great.

Why hasn't anyone posted here in over a month? i'm sorry for bumping the thread, but i don't want this forum to die. Is MIncroabl on hiatus?

[/color][/size]

Alright guys.. Its been some time since MIncroabl has posted anything here.  I do not have the answer as to why or if he is even still working on it.  But maybe, like myself and others he/she has been hit by the RLS that many of us others have and will return with a big update eventually, but until that time the thread seems to be dormant.