SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

There is so much custom content for SC4 available on the internet these days, and while a lot of it looks really good, for one reason or another, it just doesn't work. Or at least, it doesn't work the way it should. And I don't just mean not CAMified yet.
I'm talking about queries that don't show up. Functional landmarks that just aren't. The slew of empty growable landmarks.
No custom content comes with a guarantee, but what's the point of any of it if it doesn't work when you try to play using it? Any custom content released should be some sort of an enhancement to gameplay.

So, in this thread, with the help of some friends, I will be putting the "fun" back into the dysfunctional, and seeing what I can do to get these to work in the game, the way they really should.

Hopefully, the original creators of the lots will be paying attention and following along, so that they can learn a little along the way. No need for anyone to be a Repeat Offender.

Once finished, all of my fixed lots will go for scrutineering, to make sure that they do indeed work the way they should, without any problems at all, and then once approved, will be available on the LEX. For those of you without your own scrutineering posse, always at least try to use your new lot in game, and send it to a friend to double check, before you upload it anywhere, so that you don't have to worry about nasty comments plaguing your files, or maybe worse, seeing your lot here in my thread  :P

So now, let's get on with it, starting with one of the inspirations for this thread, HDIP Single Furnace Steel Mill by fukuda (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19310&v=1), available on the STEX.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2Ffukuda%2Ffukuda_blam%2520hidp%2520single%2520furnace%2520steel%2520mill%2Fstmillupload1.JPG&hash=26e56e118c499d4747aedccdd2d67c477323ea7a) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2Ffukuda%2Ffukuda_blam%2520hidp%2520single%2520furnace%2520steel%2520mill%2Fstmillupload2.JPG&hash=e010c9dcd5853ee58281a36beb2df368f74604a9)

Though reworked once by fukuda, the mill was still plagued with modding problems, and the download has been locked for well over a month now. But of course, I'm too stubborn to just give up on a lot that looks this good. Fukuda's Industrial bats are very detailed, and look exceptional in-game. But the query showed no jobs for my city, as it claimed, and no wealth of any sort, though the lot produced enough pollution to make Al Gore want to make a second film on Global Warming.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot315.jpg&hash=560e4536d201ff9e7c452620455dee0630d967d9)

Opening the file in Reader shows a couple of, to me, fairly obvious things overlooked. The first I noticed was the Occupant Type, to allow the lot to have jobs, or the Occupant Group for Industrial Dirty, Manufacturing or High Tech to determine what type of jobs the lot will offer. I consider a steel mill to be a manufacturer, so let's set the OG and OT to IM, and change the lot wealth to Medium to reflect that.
Time to get the air pollution under control. 512 over 112 is just way too high. Let's lower that a bit.
A few other tweaks here and there, just to fix up some of the stats, and we now have a functional lot.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot318.jpg&hash=408a3d87458311a1d2b1311124a7848e4ba9fe36)

Isn't that much better?

All that's left to do is a proper ReadMe, package it up, make a Cleanitol to get rid of the old file, zip it all up and get it to the scrutineers.


If you find any lots out there that look great, but just don't work, give me the link and I'll take a look.


Edit:
For all of my fixed files, you will need xxdita essentials (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1541) for the custom query.

Finished Projects:
fukuda's HIDP Jamison Steel Mill (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1561)
BriPizza's Kougyouteki Industrial (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1573)

Great idea.  It's a sad waste to see such great BAT's that don't work.  &apls

i second that! great work xxdita, keep it going and 'repair' more faulty lots ;)

one question, will it be campatible and regular-patible?

The new lot is still a plop, so it will work with or without CAM. I didn't see a need in making a 9x31 growable.  :P

So, now that its fixed - when will the file be unlocked?

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 01:46:25 AM
Once finished, all of my fixed lots will go for scrutineering, to make sure that they do indeed work the way they should, without any problems at all, and then once approved, will be available on the LEX.

As for the original upload, your guess is as good as mine.  ::)

You'd probably have to remove the railroad tracks (or at least the TE), but having such a massive building as a growable would be interesting as well. It's nice to see someone else stepping into that direction - reminds me of T Wrecks when he started his "career" as a modder. :)

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 02:53:21 AM
As for the original upload, your guess is as good as mine.  ::)

That's really a shame, because I think (I do that from time to time) a service like yours was long overdue. I keep coming across quite a bit of locked stuff, and lots that never quite worked as intended. Great job. Thanks

Some of the locked files on the STEX have merely been updated and moved to the LEX, especially in the case of BSC members. As for the ones that just don't work, let me at 'em!  :P

Won't we need the original download to use this?  ()what()

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 03:39:47 AM
Some of the locked files on the STEX have merely been updated and moved to the LEX, especially in the case of BSC members. As for the ones that just don't work, let me at 'em!  :P

What happens to BATs or LOTs where the original owner isn't "among us" or cannot be contacted. There's the case of Daddyo117272's UHaul Bonus Pack. Some of it works, some of it doesn't (two signs in particular). Although I have all the listed dependencies (and reinstalled the lot several times), the signs still show brown boxes. Thought first it might be because of a Maxis update, but I have those, too.

And yes: wouldn't you need the cooperation of the author?  %confuso

Quote from: Diggis on March 04, 2008, 03:58:11 AM
Won't we need the original download to use this?  ()what()

The original lot was locked, but not the models which are in prop packs! :)

Excellent.  That is good news.  I have just the place for this.  &apls

HandsOn - Check the file in SC4Tool to make sure all dependencies were actually listed. Daddyo could have missed something. If that doesn't show anything, then I'd suggest relotting any missing props, or just deleting them altogether in Lot Editor.

As far as MIA creators, that all depends on the situation.

And yes, only the lot has been locked, all of the dependencies are still available.

I've updated the steel mill a bit, adjusting some of the values, taking out the transit switch properties entirely. I've made a Stage 7 growable lot, though you'd need to zone 9x31. And both now have a lot more jobs, just over 10,000. It seems more accurate for a steel mill of this size to provide enough jobs for a small town. I've also switched it back to ID.

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 05:31:31 AM
I've updated the steel mill a bit, adjusting some of the values, taking out the transit switch properties entirely. I've made a Stage 7 growable lot, though you'd need to zone 9x31. And both now have a lot more jobs, just over 10,000. It seems more accurate for a steel mill of this size to provide enough jobs for a small town. I've also switched it back to ID.

Sounds good. :) Personally, I don't mind zoning a 9x31 lot; as long as it saves some space in my overcrowded menus, I'll take it. Also, I-D seems more appropriate for a structure like this. I don't know if a lot with 10,000 industrial jobs will grow if you don't have the CAM, though - for residentials and commercials, the maximum is around 8,000.

Quote from: Andreas on March 04, 2008, 05:43:34 AM
I don't know if a lot with 10,000 industrial jobs will grow if you don't have the CAM, though - for residentials and commercials, the maximum is around 8,000.

Since it's a stage 7 lot, it wouldn't grow without the CAM anyways! $%Grinno$%

I'd think, as long as dita gives the orginal author credit for creating the item, there should not be any problems fixing it, and reposting it. Do you need the car makers permission to paint your car, or add custom wheels, or take it to the repair shop?

Quote from: RebaLynnTS on March 04, 2008, 05:48:48 AM
I'd think, as long as dita gives the orginal author credit for creating the item, there should not be any problems fixing it, and reposting it. Do you need the car makers permission to paint your car, or add custom wheels, or take it to the repair shop?

;D You ought to have a word with our plumber - he thinks he owns our bathroom!

xxdita: does this mean the steel mill can now be found on the LEX?

Patience Grasshopper..  :D

it needs testing first.

Dita: I offer my services, if you need any help.

Quote from: HandsOn on March 04, 2008, 05:55:56 AM
xxdita: does this mean the steel mill can now be found on the LEX?

Quote from: Diggis on March 04, 2008, 05:59:42 AM
it needs testing first.

I also think he needs to prepare an installer and a readme first, before having it tested! ::)

This is awesome.  Great work Nate.  I can't wait ti see what you tackle next.

Robin  &apls

BTW: If you need testers, I am available (no longer need to work  $%Grinno$%). I've got a couple of Vista machines, and an XP will be added in April. And I've been doing UAT's for some time now..
As long as folks let me know what needs to be done..
Just a thought

WOW Nate I go to bed and I awake to find you started the shop.... Sweet is all I got to say and I want to give my full support here on this wonderful lot and if anyone needs the original zip I will see about getting it loaded on SimCities if any time soon Fukuda doesn't stop in before this fix is ready for release to the Masses... 

Only if its truely needed to have loaded up...  Remember to all " You dont want your lot in here  ;D " well if yes you do if you want to learn and see how it was fixxed and make Nate work for that Banana then yes its a good thing....  Nate I think that is awesome that you listing how you fixxed the lot as well...

I too Have Daddyo's Uhaul Lot sign's and they are broken and they need TM911 to the rescue.......................

Quote from: Pat on March 04, 2008, 08:51:56 AM
I too Have Daddyo's Uhaul Lot sign's and they are broken and they need TM911 to the rescue.......................

So its not just me? Because I cannot find out what's wrong..

Give me a link and I'll take a look.  ;D

/me makes residence

LOL, cant wait to see what you have in store for us Nate... its looking good already

Joe

Nate I think you just found your next challenge lol Here [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16247)

The UHaul signs won't show up in game for a very simple reason - daddyo failed to include the models in the upload. This is not something that xxdita can do anything about and the only solution if you want to use them is to PM daddyo and ask him to post the models.

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 09:08:48 AM
Give me a link and I'll take a look.  ;D

Being naturally presumptious I take you up on it: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=16247&v=1 is the UHaul Bonus Pack. The standard billboard works, but the upright highway sign produces a brownbox as does one other sign in his original Uhaul Pack.

PS: The reason I did not see your reply to Pat's post is that it wasn't there when I posted. I noticed a lag sometime ago when I sign-on from Europe..

Please see my explanation above.

Quote from: BarbyW on March 04, 2008, 09:26:05 AM
The UHaul signs won't show up in game for a very simple reason - daddyo failed to include the models in the upload. This is not something that xxdita can do anything about and the only solution if you want to use them is to PM daddyo and ask him to post the models.

That does indeed explain matters. Unfortunately PM's remain unanswered (tried earlier this year), thus I guess the chap's AWOL..? Pity, the idea was good..

The Steel Mill has been sent off to the scrutineers, so now we wait...  $%Grinno$%

In the meantime, a hint at my next project...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot289.jpg&hash=e43dcea486e21ea508cc146b0d329a3a346f89ac)

Quote from: xxdita on March 04, 2008, 11:05:34 AM
The Steel Mill has been sent off to the scrutineers, so now we wait...  $%Grinno$%

In the meantime, a hint at my next project...

Don't tell me: SC4's ugliest office building finally gets a makeover - and a preventive inocculation against flodding newly formed cities? ()stsfd()

/me searches for more broken buildings, and produces a definite list :p

Joe

Finally, we can eradicate blank lots entirely!

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 05, 2008, 01:01:47 AM
Finally, we can eradicate blank lots entirely!

Have you seen the list of them? Over 600 found already!  $%Grinno$%
Not sure I'll be able to get to all of them, but I do have my eye on a few to start with.  :P
Any specific requests?

Does this mean that you're about to fix the empty lot problem for all (????) custom content? Incredible.. &apls

Unfortunately xxdita is not a miracle worker and the empty lot problem will continue to proliferate while people insist on using raphaelninja's blank lots. As this file often downloaded to your HD from the official exchange - see Glenni's thread about Gems in the official exchange  (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3287.0) - it will no doubt still be causing problems in the future. All that can be done is to report any incidences as they crop up and they can then be dealt with.

Quote from: BarbyW on March 05, 2008, 02:55:22 AM
Unfortunately xxdita is not a miracle worker

I almost already thought he was! ::)

Quote from: BarbyW on March 05, 2008, 02:55:22 AM
Unfortunately xxdita is not a miracle worker ...

All that can be done is to report any incidences as they crop up and they can then be dealt with.

Well, from what I've seen thus far (and all the answers I got from xx), "Miracle Worker" seems to be about the right appelation.

As for the reporting, makes sense to me. Maybe a simple, no-response threat could be set up to simply list all these. Then the miracles can happen as and when they do..  ::)

Actually, the thread's already been created, and includes a tutorial on how to fix them, as well as a Cleanitol to get rid of the originals. linkie (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0)

I need to take a look at the bats and lots themselves to see which ones are even worth saving. I know that NOB's lots are already in the process of being fixed, and some others have been redone and made into CAMelots already.
But like I said, if there are any specific lots anyone wants fixed, I can put those at the front of the list. Just find me a link.

Of course, even with a tutorial handy, I plan on cheating a little anyway.  :P

Good to hear you'll be getting rid of the most commonly used blank lots.

I really should get around to re-modding some of those Japanese BATs.

Quote from: RippleJet on March 05, 2008, 03:06:57 AM
I almost already thought he was! ::)

Maybe he isn't, but you are  ;) but its great to see that there is more good modders around who just don't sit and wait someone to send stuff to be modded to them.

this little industrial piece by bripizza is a scurge.... 4000 jobs.... gah....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg503.imageshack.us%2Fimg503%2F306%2Fkgtnk02vw4.jpg&hash=576f8a722113771dce2e59c1e3098780bff0be2c)

[linkie] (http://www.bripizza.net/sc4/)

Quote from: mightygoose on March 05, 2008, 08:56:47 AM

[linkie] (http://www.bripizza.net/sc4/)

Maybe irreverent question here: but what language is BriPizza's site in - IE/Firefox only show up high-ASCII characters and symbols..?

It's Japanese - check your encoding...

Quote from: snorrelli on March 05, 2008, 10:41:01 AM
It's Japanese - check your encoding...

Thanks - that explains it..

Could you take a look at this one?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2Fglenni%2Fglenni_blam%2520breidablikk%2520skole%2Fnightbreaida%252EJPG&hash=e8ec61fa9e8ceee730b81ff88e9b0f7a9bc9cc7f)

Breidablikk School (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16903)

It's of course modded in BLaM quality modding, which is about as good as British Leyland's cars (hint hint, it's not very good)

The main problem is that when you raise the elevation arround it, you can't destroy the lot..

EDIT: To be honest, just re mod all the ones i've released a BLaM :D

Quote from: Glenni on March 05, 2008, 12:16:35 PM
Could you take a look at this one?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2Fglenni%2Fglenni_blam%2520breidablikk%2520skole%2Fnightbreaida%252EJPG&hash=e8ec61fa9e8ceee730b81ff88e9b0f7a9bc9cc7f)

Breidablikk School (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16903)

It's of course modded in BLaM quality modding, which is about as good as British Leyland's cars (hint hint, it's not very good)

The main problem is that when you raise the elevation arround it, you can't destroy the lot..

Hmmm... agreed, but I think we should keep that on the quiet side.  Dont want to upset certain people.

Why not, it's my own BAT and the modding for it is rubbish, if anything i would offend meself..  $%Grinno$%

Some of the finest cars came out of British Leyland...The Rover SD1, the Princess, the Allegro, the Maxi.........er yeah, OK, I see your point  :D :D

OK, BriPizza's Industrial for mightygoose, and Glenni's BLaM catalog.

Personally, I'm not worried about a few bruised egos, though that's not my goal. I'm not looking to ridicule any specific creator or team, just trying to show them how simple it is to mod their lots properly, with the wealth of knowledge available, and all of the people in the community that are all-to willing to help, and guide them. I know that the same lots that don't work for me, aren't working for anyone else either.
What amazes me is that with all of the files I've checked out so far, in the comments you see

QuoteThis crashed my computer 10/10 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: .

Glenni, since you're already on the LEX, you may want to think about putting some prop packs together for the models. I can help you with updating the lots, but it would make things easier if we didn't have to send people to download the old ones just for the models. I'll talk to Barby about it in the morning.

There also seems to be an issue with AVG reporting that my installers have some sort of a virus. I can assure you, they have all been Cloroxed, Lysolled, Purelled, and Febreezed, so this is simply a false positive. Ironic, none the less.

Thats unlucky, that silly AVG...

and once again, WOOOO @ you... sorry lost my train of thought... woops

Joe

Lets continue on here what a great job Nate is doing here  &apls &apls



NB: removed a post after a chat with a friend and edited this post - pat

In order to keep the load on Dita, down, as much as possible, please let me know if any of my creations need to be fixed, and I will gladly see to it, asap. I already know, I still have a lot to learn, so I am not offended when I am told I did something wrong.

It's good to see so many of my friends hanging out here with me, and hopefully some new ones.

MightyGoose - I'm on it.

Joe - Yeah AVG sucks.

Lee - Thanks for keeping the peace.

Reba - Don't worry, I'd let you know if I ran into a problem before unleashing my monkeys.  :D

Pat - No worries, I know where you're coming from.    :P

The good news... AVG has updated.  ::)
The bad news... I've run into a snag with the installer. So, I need a Guinea Pig. Someone with Vista, as it doesn't seem to be an issue on XP.
It seems that for some reason, the new folders created by my installer are Read Only, meaning that neither my folders, or the parent folders (SimCity 4/Plugins/BSC) can be moved or deleted unless the folder properties are manually corrected for each of the new folders installed. So, anyone with Vista, please PM me if you have time to do a little testing. Shouldn't take long.

Now on to the weird news... Glenni, I had to call in some reinforcements. Was your school lotted backwards?  :P

Let's take a look at it in LE.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot333.jpg&hash=99b144e5547d840aadc405907dbcf875ddedb2db)

A lot of overhanging props, but that's not the reason the lot becomes immortal.

But what's really weird... see the tiny white box in the center?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot336.jpg&hash=8a0bfa3aaa3125e73d49d012c5be31c80ae8a8e1)

That's supposed to be the main building. The dimensions in the desc are totally off. I'll need to take a look at the file in PIMX to see what's going on there. The Occupant Size of the building is set at 56x29x28,  as opposed to PIMX's 46.7x35x26.22. This is probably why the lot becomes immortal.

To be continued...

Quote from: xxdita on March 06, 2008, 05:39:52 AM
... I've run into a snag with the installer. So, I need a Guinea Pig. Someone with Vista, as it doesn't seem to be an issue on XP.
It seems that for some reason, the new folders created by my installer are Read Only, meaning that neither my folders, or the parent folders (SimCity 4/Plugins/BSC) can be moved or deleted unless the folder properties are manually corrected for each of the new folders installed. So, anyone with Vista, please PM me if you have time to do a little testing. Shouldn't take long.

To be continued...

If it's done within the next 12 hours (anyone's time zone - I'm disappearing on a vaction for two weeks in 18 hours), I've got Vista, am programming and - as stated earlier - am used to testing all kinds of IT stuff (and if this ain't IT, then I don't know what is). So, PM or better yet email me

Quote from: xxdita on March 06, 2008, 05:39:52 AM
To be continued...

...let me fill you in... ::)

The small box you see on the right in LotEditor comes from the LotConfigPropertyLotObject line in the lotconfig exemplar that is for the building.
This property contains no less than 13 reps:

0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x0017f2c9,0x00000000,0x00109157,0x001772c9,0x00101157,0x001872c9,0x00111157,0x00000000,0xca7a5a50,0x50dbf898

Let's explain these one-by-one:

 1. 0x00000000 : tells this is a building. Every lot must have exactly one building.
 2. 0x00000000 : Level of detail modifier, 0x0 = all levels (should be this for buildings).
 3. 0x00000000 : Orientation, 0x0 = South. This can easily be changed by rotating the building in LE.
 4. 0x0017f2c9 : X Location of the centre of the building. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 23.948 m
 5. 0x00000000 : Z Location of the centre of the building. Should always be 0 for buildings
 6. 0x00109157 : Y Location of the centre of the building. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 16.568 m
 7. 0x001772c9 : Xmin of the bounding box. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 23.448 m
 8. 0x00101157 : Ymin of the bounding box. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 16.068 m
 9. 0x001872c9 : Xmax of the bounding box. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 24.448 m
10. 0x00111157 : Ymax of the bounding box. To get this into metres, divide it by 0x10000 = 17.068 m
11. 0x00000000 : Unused
12: 0xca7a5a50 : Object ID
13: 0x50dbf898 : Instance ID of the building exemplar

The last number points to the building exemplar and that's where the Occupant Size property is found.
The Occupant Size should match the Xmax-Xmin and Ymax-Ymin values above.

As we can see Xmax-Xmin = Ymax-Ymin = 1.000 m above. In other words, a very small box.
However, the Occupant Size has, for some obscure reasons, manually been given a lot larger values.

We can now easily see why this building is overhanging and causing the Immortal Lot Syndrome.
Placing a building 56 m wide and 29 m deep on the centre point 23.948 m and 16.568 m gives us:

Xmin = 23.948 m - 56 m / 2 = -4.052 m
Xmax = 23.948 m + 56 m / 2 = 51.948 m

Ymin = 16.568 m - 28 m / 2 = 2.568 m
Ymax = 16.568 m + 28 m / 2 = 30.568 m

If any of these min/max values ends up being beyond or very close to the edges of the lot, then we've encountered an immortal lot syndrome.
Did anyone notice the Xmin = -4.052 m ?  ::)

The Occupant Size should tell us the size of the LOD box.
In PIM_X we recompute these values from the real deimensions of the LOD box, as xxdita explained above.
With these recomputed values we would get:

Xmin = 23.948 m - 46.7 m / 2 = 0.598 m
Xmax = 23.948 m + 46.7 m / 2 = 47.298 m

Ymin = 16.568 m - 26.22 m / 2 = 3.458 m
Ymax = 16.568 m + 26.22 m / 2 = 29.678 m

In other words, with a recomputed Occupant Size, the lot wouldn't suffer from the Immortal Lot Syndrome anymore.

Now, it is important that the Xmin/Xmax and Ymin/Ymax values match the Occupant Size.
If the extensions given in Xmin/Xmax and Ymin/Ymax are a lot smaller that the Occupant Size,
we will be able to place the building closer to the edges of the lot in LotEditor.
But that will also most certainly lead to the Occupant Size overhanging the edges of the lot.

If the min/max values match the Occupant Size exactly, then we can easily see in LotEditor if the building is coming too close to the edge.
And LotEditor won't allow you to place the building overhanging the edges.

The old custom of using invisible buildings or small specially rendered boxes as the main building,
hidden in a large prop, has lead to numerous occasions of immortal lot syndromes.
And for absolutely no apparent reason...

Why create a small box and hide it in the prop, when the building model can be used the way it should,
used in the PluginManager to create a building exemplar with correct Occupant Size?

Yeah, what he said.   ()what()

This is a really interesting thread. :thumbsup:

I know of some lots that grow and show up with nothing.  I'll just have to play around in SC4 to see if I can get them to re-grow.  Once I do that, I'll mention them here. :thumbsup:

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 07, 2008, 05:31:46 AM
I know of some lots that grow and show up with nothing.  I'll just have to play around in SC4 to see if I can get them to re-grow.  Once I do that, I'll mention them here. :thumbsup:

Or mention them here: Growing Empty Lots and how to Correct them (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0),
where you can also check if the ones you have might already be listed. :thumbsup:

And we'll need to add that BriPizza's Industrial to the list as well.
Off to work now, but I'll have an update tonight. Glenni, any thoughts on making your school Private?

@rippleJet: The reason some people use invisible buildings is that they have no BAT skills and do not have the original model of the building. That's the situation I'm in, but Glenni, I don't know.

Quote from: dragonshardz on March 07, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
@rippleJet: The reason some people use invisible buildings is that they have no BAT skills and do not have the original model of the building. That's the situation I'm in, but Glenni, I don't know.

That's if you only want to use Maxis props, and cannot find a model someone else has used and that you could reuse.
If that's the case, then you should be prepared to create only eyecandy lots (perfect for MD's, but not for public release).

---

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding about why and when "invisible buildings" can and should be used.

First of all, each lot MUST have one reference to a building exemplar.
A building exemplar is a simple file (descriptor) containing a few properties giving all needed stats for the building (such as capacity, plop cost, consumption, pollution, etc.).

The building exemplar also contains a property called Resource Key Type, which is a reference (pointer) to the actual model.
This model can be in any file in your plugins folder, e.g. in a prop pack or a SC4Model file.

If this file isn't a bat you've created yourself, it will be a dependency that you will have to link your downloaders to.
Note also that a rendered SC4Model is not the same as the original bat, being a gmax or 3dmax file.

The building exemplar is created in the PluginManager, when a model (SC4Model) is dragged into the category you select.
The size of the model (actually the size of its LOD box) determines the values of all properties in the building exemplar that's created (SC4Desc file).

If the Resource Key Type points to a non-existent model or a model that doesn't contain any rendered parts, then we have an "invisble building".
Maxis used this for most parks, where there are no buildings or anything else that needs to be a real model.
This is quite acceptable, since the properties for parks are not dependent on the building (LOD) volume.

However, problems occur when certain batters use invisible buildings on lots having a real building, batted by themselves.
The building would in that case be made into a prop in PluginManager.
But a prop exemplar doesn't contain any properties setting the stats for the building. A prop is only eyecandy.

Thus, the properties still need to be included in the building exemplar, which in this case obviously is copied from another lot.
All property values thus have to be edited manually in Reader afterwards (or be left unedited).

Very few people have the knowledge on how the property values are calculated in Maxis' PluginManager.
Thus, most values would in that case have to be guessed/estimated and based on earlier buildings made by the same person or by Maxis.

When creating the lot in LotEditor, the growth stage is selected based on the values in the building exemplar.
If these haven't been edited fully and correctly before creating the lot, your lot might get the wrong growth stage.
Once you've created the lot, the LE won't change the growth stage, even if you edit the values afterwards.

The extreme result of this is a skyscraper growing on a stage 1 lot.
And yes, Glenni knows a lot about these... ::)

I mostly use invisible buildings on my modular sets, but I always make the desc file for them, as well as the base model. As for any stand alone lots, I see no real benefit to invisible buildings, so I guess what I am saying is I completely agree with you.

Quote from: RippleJet on March 07, 2008, 05:44:57 AM
Or mention them here: Growing Empty Lots and how to Correct them (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0),
where you can also check if the ones you have might already be listed. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the link.  I was just able to grow again the two I knew about for sure and I didn't see them on that list.  I'll go mention them in that thread right now. :thumbsup:

Using invisible buildings is just never a good idea. It can cause problems such as inaccurate stats, and sometimes even worse, the Immortal Lot Syndrome. One of the more experienced lotters seems to be using them lately, not to mention any names, but he's not on the LEX, so no worries.  ::)

So, somebody ordered a BriPizza?  :D

The original Plop was indeed made with the RCI Blank lot set, to create a "functional" landmark. All of the lots used something called NullBox as the main building, instead of the actual building. This is pretty much the same as using an invisible building, as the stats cannot be accurately figured for the lot.
Of course, RippleJet has gone to the trouble of writing a tutorial on how to fix the Empty Lots, but whenever possible, I cheat.  :P

Seems a lot easier to use XTool to create a proper building desc.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot009.jpg&hash=5d8302cef6f371698a97d30038ef2316ac7f5be2)

Next step: fire up Lot Editor, delete the prop building, and replace the NullBox with the actual building.
I was lucky enough to catch one of them growing as I tested out Callagrafx's new prison.  ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot007.jpg&hash=1226565aae262452a2708aff61da5d4e04f7eb41)

A nice Stage 8 ID, or a Stage 10 IM lot, and now truly, a functional landmark.
Anyone that has BriPizza's original lot, hang on to the models, except of course NullBox.
Now for a ReadMe, Installer, Cleanitol, and a few tests by the scrutineers, as soon as I wrangle a couple up at least.  $%Grinno$%

Quote...let me fill you in...

Wow! what a great response. I didn't know any of that stuff and the scary thing is that it all made sense when Ripplej explained it.  ()stsfd()

Interesting technique u have there :P

some might say its cheating, others would go for initiative...

whatever it is, your doing a good job  :thumbsup:

Joe

Nate wonderful job there and at making this function properly!!!  Good luck in getting some of them scrutineers lol

Jamison Steel Mill (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1561) is now on the LEX.

woooooohoooooo Congrats Nate!!!

I love what ur doing here Dita, and I cant wait for more stuff from you, but a suggestion: you should think about including a table of what you intend to do on your first post just for easy reference for people that might want to join in the fun and maybe help you  :thumbsup: LOL

Oh and giving your monkey a badge would be great too  :D

Joe

The next off topic post in this thread will mean inmediate ban without further advertisement.

---

Now, please, back to topic. Thanks

jeronij

I echo star.torturer's sentiments. You are most likely one of the few people that could do this. Keep it up my monkey friend!

~~Dragonshardz~~

BriPizza's Kougyouteki is fixed, and up on the LEX now. http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1573

While checking around his site, getting the link for the Cleanitol, I found a few more RCI Blank lots used for functional landmarks. So that's the next project.

sweeetness thank you Nate for your hard work that you do!!!!   I cant wait to see what you pull out with next into the garage!!!

"One of the more experienced lotters seems to be using them lately, not to mention any names"
Except for the 'experienced' part, that seems to be me. Sorry, won't do it again  ::)

Anyways, you're doing a splendid job here, in remodding and repackaging those lots. It was a shame not to have them function correctly.

Nah, wasn't speaking about you, Casper. $%Grinno$%
I wouldn't expect anyone to have a perfectly modded lot with their first few tries. Luckily, here, there are plenty of people that can help get any problems sorted out, hopefully before the lot is released to the public. Sometimes even the smallest modding detail, or rushing an upload, can lead to something more serious in-game. A lot either works, or it doesn't.
Most of us here can spot people with talent, and will at least try to guide them in the right direction, and give them our full support, just to be able to get their projects in our game.  ;)
Did I mention it's good to be back home? I could've used the night off to mod something, but nah. Instead, I found more monkeys. Shhh... don't tell Barby.  $%Grinno$%

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2Ft171210256_60190_3.gif&hash=b099c0a834f9bcaf9d9aef941ed882bbc94a3512)

your busted by me Nate lol!!!! Bad monkey lol..... I know I sure do apprecait the help you give me and I know if it wasnt for you helping me out I would still be stuck in limbo myself lol.....   &apls :thumbsup:

Cant wait for some more stuff Dita... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

and I like the new monkey LOL

Joe

Quote from: xxdita on March 19, 2008, 10:50:49 AM
Jamison Steel Mill (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1561) is now on the LEX.

XXDITA: I've downloaded the Steel Mill, as well as the dependency file you posted earlier, covering your fixes. When I plopped it I got the lot and a small flag indicating where the brown box would appear (one of PEG's mods, methinks). So where did I mess up??

You need the original model too... not just the files from xxdita

download the original mill (found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16745)) from the stex and then just take the model file

Quote from: star.torturer on April 07, 2008, 10:44:58 AM
You need the original model too... not just the files from xxdita

download the original mill (found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16745)) from the stex and then just take the model file

Thought that might be it; unfortunately that shows us: This file has been locked for Administrative purposes.
Check back later.

No, the original lot doesn't include any model files. Those are all found in fukuda's HIDP Prop Sets, packaged seperately.
Of course, I did include a Cleanitol file to check for dependencies,
You'll need xxdita essentials http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1541
North Country Dude's rail textures http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15976
fukuda's HIDP Prop Pack 1 http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17844
fukuda's HIDP Steel Mill Prop Pack 1 http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19308
and fukuda's HIDP Steel Mill Prop Pack 2 http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19309

sorry, should have checked for a Cleanitol :(

Joe

Quote from: xxdita on April 07, 2008, 12:17:12 PM
No, the original lot doesn't include any model files. Those are all found in fukuda's HIDP Prop Sets, packaged seperately.
Of course, I did include a Cleanitol file to check for dependencies,

Thanx, Xxdita. Funny enough, the Cleanitol repoted back that I was up-to-date on the dependencies. And I did have all exept Fukuda's props 1 & 2. Shows to go, doesn't it?

Heh, just checked the Cleanitol again. I only listed what needed to be removed. The links are still in my last post there, and of course, in the ReadMe.

Hi xxdita

I was wondering if you could take a look at the BLS Rural Shopping Mall.
It has a small problem with it as you can see from the pic.
If you could it would be great, if not don't worry :D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg182.imageshack.us%2Fimg182%2F3919%2F04082008223626sl7.th.jpg&hash=979866b867db09a1b78f9bb238efba0433da9632) (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=04082008223626sl7.jpg)

:satisfied:
TTC

This looks like something Ripplejet could fix.
Robin  ;)

Looks like there is somehting X rated on that building...  $%Grinno$%

Not sure what the problem could be, as that's a Maxis building. I'll have a look at it tonight though.

Many thanks :thumbsup:

there is no rush  $%Grinno$%
As you must have better things to do ;)

Like drinking this cuppa :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F116%2Fteapotandcup183e331wj9.png&hash=b61c4e111f892c1e1457d7305b8e6f55d43fc7cb)

:satisfied:
TTC

I'm a little puzzled, TTC, as that lot uses Maxis buildings from RH/DeLuxe and bldingprop2 plus some trees from MJB and a BSC Texture. I just checked everything out in the X_Tool, SC4Tools and in game. This is what I see in game:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fblsrurlshopping.jpg&hash=9a336381f920cf16f273e455284654b6f8f5935c)

Its the GROW version that has the issue.

Thank you High5 tower for adding the missing bit of info that I forgot.

Barby thank you very much for taking the time to check this out also.

I usually plop that one over the one that grows but when it popped up
as a growable this time I thought I'd take a pic and post.

Thanks to all for your help :thumbsup:

:satisfied:
TTC

XXDITA: I may have another puzzler for you (see pic). This empty lot is in fact a school. Now the strange thing is that I must have deleted the respective plugin because the main building never showed, thus I can no longer identify the school. What makes it even stranger is that it cannot be bulldozed, de-zoned or otherwise removed; even altering the elevation will not demolish it.

It always came up empty, although I clearly recall having all the dependencies for it; I double and triple checked because I liked the size. The lot cannot be queried, only the props are ballooned. Am not even sure if it's really your cup of tea.. ::)

Without knowing which school it is, there's not much I can do really. But for Immortal Lots, sometimes it helps to try bulldozing it one more time, then plopping a 1x1 park towards the center of the lot. If that doesn't work, try plopping a building on each side of the school, then demolishing all of them at once.
If you can get me a pic of the building (a name and creator would help even more though), I may be able to find it, and figure out the problem.
Chances are, the building was given the wrong dimensions, so once we have a copy of the lot and building, it would only take a few moments to get it fixed.

Quote from: xxdita on April 10, 2008, 01:21:12 AM
Without knowing which school it is, there's not much I can do really. But for Immortal Lots, sometimes it helps to try bulldozing it one more time, then plopping a 1x1 park towards the center of the lot. If that doesn't work, try plopping a building on each side of the school, then demolishing all of them at once.
If you can get me a pic of the building (a name and creator would help even more though), I may be able to find it, and figure out the problem.
Chances are, the building was given the wrong dimensions, so once we have a copy of the lot and building, it would only take a few moments to get it fixed.

Thanx, I'll give that a shot. And I will certainly endeavour to find out which is the errant building.

Tried your suggestions - no luck. This lot is truly imortal, as you said. As for finding the school (I did get it from Simtropolis a long time ago) it no longer seems to exist. Would there be a way to identify it with the Reader or LeProp????

TTC, your problem may lay in having the outdated lot still in your plugins. Try running the attatched Cleanitol to remove it.
The updated BLS Rural Shopping Mall can be found in Barby's Bumper Bundle (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1448).
Give that a try, and let me know?

Thank you xxdita.

for taking the time to check this out and attaching the cleanitol file. I shall give that ago and see,
but I'm sure I dl that pack from the lex.

:satisfied:
TTC

And thanks to Barby as well. Though she didn't have time to post the likely solution, she stands behind all of her creations.
If you still have a problem, let us know.

Quote from: TheTeaCat on April 09, 2008, 12:19:44 PM
Thank you High5 tower for adding the missing bit of info that I forgot.

Barby thank you very much for taking the time to check this out also.

Thanks to all for your help :thumbsup:

:satisfied:
TTC

Thanks is never enough for what Barby does for us all, we must all bow down and worship The Goddess  ;D

Unfortunately the problem still exists  &mmm

I dl'd your cleanitol and ran it this is what got. :(
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg520.imageshack.us%2Fimg520%2F4786%2F04102008144244sf5.jpg&hash=d12d12980eae22766abb55bff4950a5a27d271b4)
off to the lex and yep only got it once before
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg136.imageshack.us%2Fimg136%2F2600%2F04102008133435nv8.jpg&hash=4c6c75157ebb914701440774d8cd234a4a75da14)
installed it ran cleanitol again and same message.
only stuff in plugins folder are the required deps
(bldingprop 1+2 in c drive plugin folder)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg142.imageshack.us%2Fimg142%2F2615%2F04102008145707iz1.jpg&hash=32ffa70ab214fc9676dac24a5b05aa6fdc98ebf0)
ran game and used plop lot to plop the commercial lot and this  ()sad()
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F346%2Fblsruralproblemhi0.jpg&hash=3fb19fba2e3bce62885dbb663e71cb02538da226)

So as you can see there is still a problem.
As always I appreciate all the hard work that goes on behind the scenes and as I say there really is no rush whatsoever $%Grinno$%
Everything else associated with the pack is perfect without any probs ;)


I know that the whole of the BSC team stand behind everything they do, thats the main reason why the quality of the products are of the highest possible standard.
I think I have everything ever produced by the BSC  ::) even if I don't use it all. $%Grinno$%

:satisfied:
TTC

TTC, try it with an empty plugins and only that lot and it's dependencies...

Derry I think what Diggis is saying is have only the problem lot and its dependencies in your folder....

The pics in the previous post show only that pack and it dependcies installed as you can see from
the pic of the plugin flolder.

Ok I emptied my plugins folder except for the required lots deps and got this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F5153%2F04102008182602lf6.jpg&hash=30bed28f4f8fdb8fda322ccbec708a099b1b1594)

their is nothing but the lots and props and essential as required by the readme.

leaving out the dependencies gives this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg185.imageshack.us%2Fimg185%2F4470%2F04102008182945yx3.jpg&hash=698fc6da4fdb0e163b0a196f4b11fbd9ec2fdd58)

The problem only occurs when your have buildings as props vol1 and vol 2 in your plugins
see here
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F8626%2F04102008190207qw6.jpg&hash=adf23485bcd1a0b9ba5904d0f47d44817e33d2a4)

hope this is of some help
Into the game outta the game move files back in take pic back out I think I need a cuppa ::) :D :D

:satisfied:
TTC

Looks like a funky building.  Whats it look like in the LE?  My thought is a corrupt file.

Fired up LE
got these results
pics to show both styles


No dependencies whatsoever
plop
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F6578%2Fnodepsmy1.jpg&hash=53bb41084422636abdd29444c7f9dfc2d17b6b81)
growable
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F3732%2Fnodepgrowrn6.jpg&hash=75d24d1973b4cd7e5281362cf8c45cf1a2994445)


required dependencies only

plop
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F5844%2Frequirdeddepsxq6.jpg&hash=43c0bef873079009b04752c83f333e1e27058b46)
growable
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg241.imageshack.us%2Fimg241%2F156%2Freuireddepgrowli6.jpg&hash=8c17486fa0c0b7343f6de2d9ad1406ca5244e480)

all dependencies
plop
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg391.imageshack.us%2Fimg391%2F4963%2Falldepsli2.jpg&hash=069621fae2a86381be03cb74380381cc710b9729)
growable
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F5871%2Falldepgrowec3.jpg&hash=e50e0468792f168add2a297421110194c63e117b)

Buildings as props vol 1+2 only
plop
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg87.imageshack.us%2Fimg87%2F9480%2Fdblprop12qj2.jpg&hash=20f783e9289cb784a152246a074ce535ceff85f5)
growable
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg291.imageshack.us%2Fimg291%2F6484%2Fbdlpropa12growfs2.jpg&hash=cd0b7396897a5ee92ad670cdb74ada1c7e1356b1)

so as you can see the problem lies only with the growable lot.
hope this is of some help :)

OOH more tea needed

:satisfied:
TTC


edited to show correct pics of problem lot. origional post did not feature them &ops

Am neither a BATer nor a LOTer (and being a coffee fanatic probably works against me), but I had something similar a while ago. Re-installing ALL of the EA-SC4 patches did it for me.

perhaps the growable lot being TE'd has something to do with the problem?

I shouldn't think so.  Do the 2 items (the buildings) have the same IID?

To me, it looks like the wrong model ID is being referenced by the growable lot. But that is just my opinion. &mmm

-Swamper

I am completely mystified by this as  I have checked it and also had the same problem with the growable. The model referenced is the correct one and why it was showing like that I have no idea. I have made a new building desc and redone the lot with it and it appears correctly now. I have updated the pack on the LEX but am attaching a copy of just the lot to this post. It has the same IID so will just replace the original. While I was editing it I removed the transit enabling too so it can upgrade.
I am sorry about this but would request any further problems with BLS or any other BSC lots are reported into a separate thread instead of hi-jacking Dita's Repair Shop which is for other than BSC lot problems.

BSC Tech Support at it's finest.  (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2Ft171209472_63666_3.gif&hash=24c6baebe0dcf0317dcc45b19272e7ab21047088)

If ever possible, it is always best to try to contact the original creator of the work, and give them the chance to take care of any problems you may find. But if there's a language barrier, or the original creator is unknown or no longer active in the community, or just ignores reported problem (or has a history of ignoring problems), then just point me to the lot, and I'll have a look.

Thank you both very much for taking the time to sort out this problem.

My apologies for "hijacking " this thread but wasn't really sure where to post so choose here.

my sincere thanks to all who gave advice/tips also.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F116%2Fteapotandcup183e331wj9.png&hash=b61c4e111f892c1e1457d7305b8e6f55d43fc7cb)
just because :)

:satisfied:
TTC

No worries Derry, and it will perhaps help someone else later on.
For any problems with a BSC lot, it is usually best to post the problem either in the individual creator's building/lotting thread, or in the BSC Help Area http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=109.0
Most things can be fixed rather easily, just by creating a new desc, and replacing the building in LE, as long as the original model(s) is/are still available for download.

Maybe you should amend the title to say

Dita's Repair Shop - non BSC lots only.

just a thought

As your thread is so popular/visible the "repair" is what i though of first. ( &idea ah I go to xxDita's thread )
even though it was clearly a BLS lot and Barby has her own thread for them.

just to let you know all ok now :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg185.imageshack.us%2Fimg185%2F6709%2Fblscorrectwu1.th.jpg&hash=eccf01479517fe8edc22ccd6bd78e4e4f3ed933c) (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blscorrectwu1.jpg)

if you ever need a cuppa just holler :)

:satisfied:
TTC

Just a bit of feedback.. I don't know if I have made an error, but I tried to follow the readme's .. but when I had the Kyougyo-v1 mentioned earlier grow in my city, it had no query... if I click it, nothing.. any suggestions as to what I have left out? I have your essentials file installed..

The only thing required for the query is my essentials file. Please double-check that this is indeed in your plugins folder. The default install location is the root Plugins, as all Essentials files should be.
It's possible that if you're using some -userdir option, and datpacking, that you've forgotten to move or copy your root Plugins into the new folder, along with your compressed files. Or at least, forgotten this particular file.

Edited for typos... (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2Fthmk54.gif&hash=f0402cc7931ec265d8b43dfea03b663acb64dd8a)

Yep you're right.. even more embarrassing since I LOOKED!! .. got to stop having so many windows open at the same time.. lolz..

Hi, I had a question on the Lovely Jamison Steel mill...

I'm using the ploppable version... The jobs are showing up fine in the query window... My only question is should the mill also be producing freight too ? Or maybe that is something only the growable version will do ? Im quite sure i ran the train tracks into the mill itself correctly to try and trigger the paths.. Thanks for some help..

only growable industry produces freight

Good answer MG. Also, the TE is only eye-candy, I've removed all of the transit switch properties completely.

Hey Nate any news on Bripizza lots or is mum the word (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2Fthmk54.gif&hash=f0402cc7931ec265d8b43dfea03b663acb64dd8a)

If you mean NOB's, I'm just figuring out the html editing for the ReadMe's, and then the first set is off to the scrutineers for testing.
Same thing for Casper's skyscraper CAMeLots. But free time to learn CoffeeCup has been scarce lately. Hopefully I'll be able to get to it sometime this week.

Sweeeet Nate!!! I do hope you take it easy though and dont over do it...  Cant wait to see what you cook up!!!