Now I'm kind of a lurker. I play SC4 on and off. I have modded before (created my own sidewalk mod). So perhaps I could experiment - but I wanted to ask first; You see I might be the odd one out, but I don't want seasonal trees in a city of mine. Yes, they are necessary for certain lots - otherwise one would get those nasty boxes - wouldn't one? So I was wondering if there already is or perhaps if it's possible, to make a replacement mod. One in practically the same fashion as your average sidewalk texture mod would be. I made one of those before so I should be able to do that again.
Also, how about certain farm fields? IE flowers?
Your help would be much obliged.
Why don't I want seasonal trees? Because I love pines. And seasonal trees just don't mix well with areas where pines (lodgepoles to be exact) are king. At least, I think it looks ugly.
It can be done, but it would not be an easy task. you would need to copy the prop exemplars of all the seasonal trees in your plugins folder into a new dat file. Replace the model TGI numbers with numbers for trees you want to replace them with. Place the new dat file in a folder with a name starting with "zzzz". Next time you load the game, all the seasonal trees should now be the new trees you chose.
Thanks Reba - you're right. So here goes;
I found the TGI numbers for both the burnt and regular lodgepoles:
burnt lodgepole 1-5
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0cc612
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0cc613
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0cc614
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0cc615
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0cc616
lodgepole 1-5
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0c8812
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0c8813
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0c8814
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0c8815
6534284a,e83e0437,2a0c8816
All that I now need to do... is replace the seasonal models with these. I might skip the burnt lodgepoles and only replace the seasonal trees with the regular ones. :)
Whoops, I did something wrong.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F4272%2Fseasonaltolodgeoopsar3.jpg&hash=8016e6b4193671d28c4ea995858f88f93d613664)
Instead of replacing the seasonal with the lodgepoles the opposite happened - and with the same wrong tree! hmmm... how to fix this? Correct me if i'm wrong - please - but I'm guessing I need to modify all Resource Key Type 1 entries with the lodgepole TGI instead of the TGI's themselves - right?
Hmm, I think replacing the tree models is probably not a good idea. Each seasonal tree is the product of a "stack" of four individual tree models, and the game will display them according to the date settings. So you would have to replace all four seasonal models with a single tree model, which quadruples the work. I don't know how many lots with seasonal trees you have, and how many seasonal trees you have installed, but it might be better to actually edit the lots, rather than creating a mod. It would also save quite some ressources, since the game doesn't need to switch between the tree models all the time anymore.
At least Cycledogg included a "static" evergreen version for most (if not all) seasonal trees he made, so if you don't want to edit the files with the Lot Editor, you can do it in the Reader by deleting three "LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData" lines in the lot exemplar file and replace the ID of the fourth with the one for the evergreen tree (don't forget to right-click and re-index the LotConfig file after deleting the properties). If there is no evergreen model, you will have to create a mod for the "summer" tree props and delete the seasonal properties from the exemplar files.
Always more than one way to "skin a cat" as they say :)
The only reason I suggested making a mod for the props, is that there are fewer to worry about.
And, yes .. the property that would need to be changed in my suggestion is Resource Key Type 1.
Quote from: Andreas on March 14, 2008, 02:45:45 AM
Hmm, I think replacing the tree models is probably not a good idea. Each seasonal tree is the product of a "stack" of four individual tree models, and the game will display them according to the date settings. So you would have to replace all four seasonal models with a single tree model, which quadruples the work. I don't know how many lots with seasonal trees you have, and how many seasonal trees you have installed, but it might be better to actually edit the lots, rather than creating a mod. It would also save quite some ressources, since the game doesn't need to switch between the tree models all the time anymore.
At least Cycledogg included a "static" evergreen version for most (if not all) seasonal trees he made, so if you don't want to edit the files with the Lot Editor, you can do it in the Reader by deleting three "LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData" lines in the lot exemplar file and replace the ID of the fourth with the one for the evergreen tree (don't forget to right-click and re-index the LotConfig file after deleting the properties). If there is no evergreen model, you will have to create a mod for the "summer" tree props and delete the seasonal properties from the exemplar files.
I think tbh that editing each lot is a lot, lot, lot more time consuming than editing the exemplars. I have a tendency to like tedious copy-pasting somehow. That or i'm just plain stubborn. One thing I could do is indeed simply replace all four seasons trees with the same lodgepole version - there are only 5 of each. I have done so already, luckily for instance Jeronij has his seasonals named nicely so I can easily check which trees need to be repeated. And even if a tree changes from one lodgepole to another per season, I doubt that'd be problematic.
I'll see which solution works best - thanks Andreas!
Alright, first try - no big noticable speed loss but I wonder how this'd work with more trees covered in the mod. The regular ploppable lodgepoles are still there - haven't tried the other ploppables. It seems to be working on a few lots - I just need to find those other seasonal trees. Are these Cycledogg's, Jeronij, DT's or Peg's?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F8529%2Fseasonaltolodgetry1jk8.jpg&hash=8aa84c986a9d40afa5464119e782871c68669bd6)
Oh yeah I haven't edited any Resource Key Type 4 exemplars on the count of not knowing exactly how they work - how do they work? Does anyone really work? Some have more reps. than others... I am a bit anxious to change them really - not knowing what value to edit.
Look for the set of numbers ... 0x5AD0E817 - 0xNNNNNNNN - 0x00030000 (or the last one may be 0x00000000), you only need to change the middle set (with the NNNNNNNN)
You have to change that one hex value every time it appears.
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on March 14, 2008, 08:10:56 AM
Look for the set of numbers ... 0x5AD0E817 - 0xNNNNNNNN - 0x00030000 (or the last one may be 0x00000000), you only need to change the middle set (with the NNNNNNNN)
You have to change that one hex value every time it appears.
I'm not sure I understand; the values as text are:
0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x635F0000
so i'd only have to change the ...,0x5AD0E817,
0x0E274FB2,0x635F0000 middle bit or the ...,0x27812821,
0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,... bit? Also, to get - of course - the right tree in there wouldn't have to be 3 values? For example; replace the last three with 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8812?
In the example you showed me, replace the last three. In all the poprs I have seen until now, the first and last set of numbers have always been the same. But it seems in this case they are all different
If I could see the entire set of numbers from both types of trees, then I could be 100% sure.
Well you have to keep in mind that the model of the Lodgepole is either one of the following (5 different models);
Resource Key Type 1 - 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8812
Resource Key Type 1 - 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8813
Resource Key Type 1 - 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8814
Resource Key Type 1 - 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8815
Resource Key Type 1 - 0x6534284A,0xE83E0437,0x2A0C8816
Whereas the exemplar I wish to replace has;
Resource Key Type 4 - 0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x635F0000
Though I have searched the forums, it seems to me a Type 4 resource key is a tad buggy but also has a time value?
Type 4 is generally used for timed props, on the copied exemplars, you could remove the type 4, and the time control properties, and just replace it with your Type 1, this will convert them all to normal props, but could cause you to have 4 trees in the same spot on a lot.
In the type 4 you showed me, replace 0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x635F0000 with the numbers of the tree you want to appear.
Thanks! I'll immediately go on experimenting :D
Hmm, well that didn't work $%Grinno$%
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg252.imageshack.us%2Fimg252%2F5797%2Fseasonaltolodgetry2jv1.jpg&hash=3255c3511b0ff57187ab5885dd6a8156b3917213)
I'll try something else.
Sometimes it just takes a lot of trial and error to finally get it right.
Well, if you don't want to edit the lots, then you'll have to keep in mind that the game will still display four props, regardless which models you assign to the IDs. So if you want to change the seasonal trees to lodgepole pines, you will have to create "seasonal" lodgepole pines where all seasons look the same. For each seasonal tree, you will have to copy the prop exemplar files and change the ID in the Resource Key Type 4 property to the ID of the lodgepole pine model.
So open Cycledogg's Mega Prop pack in the Reader, click on "Filters" and select only the exemplar files. Then scroll down the list until you find the first exemplar files for seasonal trees - in my copy, this is "CP_Cottonwood_10x10x27_fall" with the TGI "0x6534284A,0x0E274FB2,0x6EF68EF5", about one third from the top. Copy the exemplar files for all four seasons into a new DAT and then change the last three REPs of of the RKT4 property (0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x63060000) to the IDs that you found in the RKT1 property of the lodgepole pine (not the TGI IDs!).
You should also edit the "Item Name" property to "Lodgepole Pine", otherwise, the hover query will still show "Cottonwood". Don't touch the TGI IDs of the prop exemplar files, though, otherwise you will get the brown boxes. Save the DAT and label it in a way that it overrides the prop pack and test it in the game (i. e. by adding a "z_" in front of the file name). The cottonwood tree props should now call the models of the lodgepole pines, and since the seasonal properties are still there, the "spring" cottonwood (which looks like a pine) will switch to the "summer" cottonwood (which also looks like the very same pine), but it will be still a seasonal tree that has the very same prop exemplar files.
Quote from: Andreas on March 14, 2008, 02:05:30 PM
Well, if you don't want to edit the lots, then you'll have to keep in mind that the game will still display four props, regardless which models you assign to the IDs. So if you want to change the seasonal trees to lodgepole pines, you will have to create "seasonal" lodgepole pines where all seasons look the same. For each seasonal tree, you will have to copy the prop exemplar files and change the ID in the Resource Key Type 4 property to the ID of the lodgepole pine model.
So open Cycledogg's Mega Prop pack in the Reader, click on "Filters" and select only the exemplar files. Then scroll down the list until you find the first exemplar files for seasonal trees - in my copy, this is "CP_Cottonwood_10x10x27_fall" with the TGI "0x6534284A,0x0E274FB2,0x6EF68EF5", about one third from the top. Copy the exemplar files for all four seasons into a new DAT and then change the last three REPs of of the RKT4 property (0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x63060000) to the IDs that you found in the RKT1 property of the lodgepole pine (not the TGI IDs!).
You should also edit the "Item Name" property to "Lodgepole Pine", otherwise, the hover query will still show "Cottonwood". Don't touch the TGI IDs of the prop exemplar files, though, otherwise you will get the brown boxes. Save the DAT and label it in a way that it overrides the prop pack and test it in the game (i. e. by adding a "z_" in front of the file name). The cottonwood tree props should now call the models of the lodgepole pines, and since the seasonal properties are still there, the "spring" cottonwood (which looks like a pine) will switch to the "summer" cottonwood (which also looks like the very same pine), but it will be still a seasonal tree that has the very same prop exemplar files.
Wow thanks for the support Andreas! Though I did exactly this with exactly that tree ("CP_Cottonwood_10x10x27_fall"). Still got brown boxes. I'll test it without all the other trees I already replaced - perhaps that's what's causing the botch-up.
Add-it: Nope, still brown boxes :( Now what? What's the fifth ID from the left? The 0x27812821 in the RKT4 property? Could there be a problem with groups? Also, there are some blank props in which trees seem to be grouped or somehow...? Just above the first "Cottonwood" in the Mega pack.
I just made a quick test with the method described above, and everything worked fine, as the following pic is showing:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg187.imageshack.us%2Fimg187%2F3203%2Fcpseasonalmodnj4.jpg&hash=4e99bd9d35642695ab3e790d3c784d21cd842154)
On the left, there is a normal lodgepole pine prop, in the middle is a seasonal cottonwood tree, and on the right is the other cottonwood tree ("Pappel" in German; and "Herbst" is "fall"), modded to show the lodgepole pine model. I haven't edited the hover query, so you can see that it's actually the cottonwood tree and not a lodgepole pine prop.
Maybe you picked a wrong ID for the lodgepole pine? I selected one that is somewhere in the middle of the exemplar file list, named "CP_LodgepoleC_5x5x40", with the TGI "0x6534284A,0x0E274FB2,x0F3C20E02" and the RKT1 ID "0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x65340000". Attached is my test lot and the mod file - try if that works for you.
The fifth ID from the left in the RKT4 property doesn't need to be changed, I think it's fixed for all seasonal props. The "blank" trees are probably some placeholders or so, I haven't checked those so far. As far as I can see, they don't do any harm, though.
Why not change the RKT4 to RKT1 ( and just put the TGI of the SC4Model you want ) and remove all Simulator Date related properties ?
As for the brown boxes, it is likely CP made the trees into families, so if the lot maker had put the tree family and not the tree itself, you have more examplars to change - ie you'll have to find all trees examplars belonging to that family and edit them
Edit : Seems Andreas get the same idea but was quicker than me to wrote it down
Quote from: Andreas on March 14, 2008, 04:51:36 PM
I just made a quick test with the method described above, and everything worked fine, as the following pic is showing:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg187.imageshack.us%2Fimg187%2F3203%2Fcpseasonalmodnj4.jpg&hash=4e99bd9d35642695ab3e790d3c784d21cd842154)
On the left, there is a normal lodgepole pine prop, in the middle is a seasonal cottonwood tree, and on the right is the other cottonwood tree ("Pappel" in German; and "Herbst" is "fall"), modded to show the lodgepole pine model. I haven't edited the hover query, so you can see that it's actually the cottonwood tree and not a lodgepole pine prop.
Maybe you picked a wrong ID for the lodgepole pine? I selected one that is somewhere in the middle of the exemplar file list, named "CP_LodgepoleC_5x5x40", with the TGI "0x6534284A,0x0E274FB2,x0F3C20E02" and the RKT1 ID "0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x65340000". Attached is my test lot and the mod file - try if that works for you.
The fifth ID from the left in the RKT4 property doesn't need to be changed, I think it's fixed for all seasonal props. The "blank" trees are probably some placeholders or so, I haven't checked those so far. As far as I can see, they don't do any harm, though.
Oh perhaps I used the wrong ID for the lodgepoles then - yes. I used the same as the one I used to replace Jeronij's trees with - which I now remember, haven't been tested yet... - I will try this! But not now it's past 1 am - thanks Andreas (and wouanagaine) for helping me out with this! I'll continue on it asap!
It's working! It's working! &apls Andreas!
Now did you only use the CP_Lodgepoles from his megapack? Because I cannot find CP_LodgepoleC_5x5x40 in CP_PropPack_Vol01.dat. I did find two others and used those and those worked excellently! The other lodgepoles I tried to use came from the Columbus Terrainmod package; The No7 treecontroller file to be exact. I'm uncertain it really works for the JRJ trees now, though. But i'm also uncertain if those are actually used on any of the lots in question :P
The result so far:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg178.imageshack.us%2Fimg178%2F3447%2Fseasonaltolodgetry3at3.jpg&hash=1108012618b96ebc2c853de681fce59a2eb8f42a)
Edit: Didn't notice CP_PropPack_Vol02 there :D But no LodgepoleC in there...?
I'm glad to hear that it's finally working. :) I got the lodgepole pine prop from Cycledogg's updated Mega Prop Pack. I don't know if it was included in a previous pack, so it might be feasible to update your files. I think I saw at least five different lodgepole pines in there, but I haven't checked them all. If you want to use props that are included in the tree controller files, you either need to have that file installed (since it contains the necessary exemplar files), or you have to copy those to another DAT, like I did with the attached mod. Also, make sure that you copy prop exemplar files, not flora exemplar files. Well, and obviously, the DAT with the model file (i. e. the two DATs that came with the first Columbus Terrain Mod) will have to be installed.
Quote from: Andreas on March 16, 2008, 12:56:23 PM
I got the lodgepole pine prop from Cycledogg's updated Mega Prop Pack
*gasp* I wasn't aware his packs were updated into one biggy. I installed it - luckily, no brown boxes appeared :D Your infinite wisdom saves the day once more!