Hi to all!...I am in a critical point to decide if i will follow with L.E lots or i will leave it , and just use customised lots from other creators...so i will ask for help sometimes , like now...
well , i am wondering if anyone can help me , to find out if there is any way to place in a seaport lot , a ship in vertical position...just like the photo below...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2FVerticalplacement.jpg&hash=f8ff808a5cbdd4e4719d46d487000bf6de50e3b9)
-I have tried many times , since now , but in game it shows that the ship is...inside the dock...perhaps there is no way ...i searched for something similar into site , but i did not find anything...thanx
Hi Vetram. I think you need a ship prop that as suitably offset rendered. That one looks centre rendered.
What that means is that when the batter made it, they centred it perfectly on the 0,0 point in the BAT (which is normally good). But this is a problem when placing objects that you want slightly off the lot itself. Normally you can only place a prop outside the lot for 50 percent of its length or width, which is what is happening here. (You will find you can't move it off the lot more than half its length, therefore it ends up half in the middle of your dock).
To solve this you need an offset rendered prop. This means the batter has not centred it on the 0,0 point in BAT but a certain distance away, so that it can be extended further beyond the edges of the lot.
To solve your problem you will need to either find a suitable prop, or see if a friendly batter who has ships will re-render one of theirs as an offset prop for you. If you know how to use BAT you might ask them if you may borrow the gmax model and offset render it yourself.
But don't give up lotting. I think you just picked a rather challenging task to start with.
Hi sam , nice to see you here , and thanx once again for your useful informations as always.
In the case of my lot , i was interesting to use Peg's scows in vertical position in a pier , but i think they are not offset rendered props . . so , i was thinking if i could make the same thing by making water lots with these scows , but as i read in a tutorial named "making lots with boats" the models must be models and not props..what's your opinion? can i make water lots with these scows , and put it vertical into the port?
thanx so much for your courage to continue... :-\
You can certainly make water lots with the scows, but that might be a bit more work than necessary. If you just want the back of the boat to be touching the pier, just extend the lot border and move the prop up. It means you wll need to have more space in the water to place the piece, but it should work. If you want to have the boat appear to be between pieces of the seaport (but not in) then it is a different matter. The reason the scow would appear to disappear into the dock would be a result of the LODs (levels of detail) of the props and buildings overlapping each other. That would be a matter of working with the LODs for particular models and might get a bit messy. Let me know which it is though, and I will try to offer what help I can. I hope you keep using the LE. It's tough to master, but it can be useful.
First of all , thanxs threestooges for your answer...I must admit , that i did NOT understood exactly whatever you wrote , so let's try make things more simple..
Well , i post an image below , and now it will be easy to understand what exactly i want to do with scows....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2FIkonio_provlita_garbage.jpg&hash=ce0ae6d636d29d110395007cc1de3fabae0e8a6c)
You can easily see in the left side of the pier , those boats in horizontal position , but vertical against the dock. This is what i want to do , in the game.
I did not understood whatever you wrote about extending the lot border and move the prop up. Can you be more detailed?
As for scows appearing and disappearing in the seaport , this is not my intention , although it is a good idea , but for the moment i do not want to go so deep , in such details..so let's stay to those scows appearing in vertical position against the pier...thanx again for all your interesting.. :thumbsup:
hi vertram, im wondering if i might be able to offer up an idea. i also wanted something similar to your photo and i also used pegs scows, and his barges, and his trawlers. hehe. it takes a lot of time but you can make each ship into a building, then make it float on the water. therefore you can postion it horizontally or vertically (correct terms??) around your port.
i posted my 1st question on this topic here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2434.0
and sam then made a great tutuorial here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2443.0
it does take some time and practice but once its done you have a lot of new ships/boats to add to your port, and you can plop them anywhere you want in the water while using any kind of seawall on land. if you try this, just remember that peg uses timed props (which appear at certain times of the day) and static props (which are always visible).
heres an example of pegs barges and some japanese made ships.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg240.imageshack.us%2Fimg240%2F8017%2Ffloatingships1kd2.jpg&hash=88887a2a55a47240bf9e2dd661ff54b092d99bc2) (http://imageshack.us)
also, what city is that port located in? i wouldnt mind seeing more of it on google earth.
VeTram: I'm sorry if my first description was a bit confusing. First, I suggest trying the method jmdude1 posted. It will give you the most options and variety.
If you still want to use the LE and have the boat be a part of the lot, you will need to extend the lot so that you can plop the boat where you want it. The way to do that is to adjust the length and width figures (shown in the oval below).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F5627%2Fletilesextendedpx9.jpg&hash=263c78aecf7fe984447ca7b8511bd189d17f17d9)
As you may know, each tile of the lot needs a base texture in order for the LE to save the lot. Pick a base texture that is not used on the lot already and fill in the empty spaces with it. Save the lot, write down the ID of the texture, and then follow this tutorial (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=23.msg127#msg127) by Jeronij. If you are not sure about working with the Reader, let me know and I will put together some pictures to show exactly what you need to do.
I hope that was a better description than my last one.
thanx for all replies , guys :thumbsup:
jmdude1 , thanks for the informations , i will use it exactly after using first Jeronij's way . As for the photo from Google , type the word Piraeus ( in Greece) in Google Earth , and you will find it. Piraeus is the biggest harbour in Greece and one of the biggest in Europe.
As it is already too late at night here , and after spending some hours ..working on the above project , i will only just ask two questions for now , and i will return back tomorrow with details..
well , first question is the following....after reading again and again Jeronij tutorial , i want to mention that in Reader , in lot examplar i found two properties in properties list with the value equal to 0x00000002 with the base textures that i used . I followed step by step the tutorial but at the end , it doesnt say exactly if i must delete both properties , and also where i must select Reindex LotConfig and how many times....
and the second question , is that i can see after using the Reader , in L.E my lot with the boat standing without textures , but when i put it in game i cannot add the lot into game...am i using something wrong with Land and Water tiles? in what tiles i must use water and in what tiles i must use land...( i admit that using land and water in lots , is not something that i have completely understood and i might use it wrong.. really is there any informations about how to use correctly water and land tiles in L.E ? )..
here is and a pic for more help
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftransparenttiles.jpg&hash=2b85bccd0e7f50902750502e92baad8ad32081cd)
and another one to understand what i mean
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftransptile.jpg&hash=0a2a2863130c1f8d8648ccf6158e9d10150f1490)
and when i put the land in the middle of tiles (1x5) then i get the following result as seen in the pic below
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftransptiles.jpg&hash=b1c68d693f720e871c20032c04e7e45c576d7f5a)
..thanx and i will return tomorrow
thanks for the location of the port in greece. i always like seeing large ports to get ideas.
as for your questions, i think i may know the answers, or some idea. if im wrong i hope somebody can correct me.
1. you should delete any base textures that you want invisible on the water. also, i think your ship is sinking to the bottom due to the foundation threshold. try to set it to 90 and see if that works.
as for the reindex, i dont think it matters how often you do it, either after every change, or at the end when all changes are done. to reindex, just right click on any property listed, and then
select reindex.
2. as for this question, you seem to have solved your problem since you were able to plop it in game.
maybe threestooges can offer more info to your questions. and thanks for posting the pics, its helps a lot. good luck.
thanks for all, also jmdude1
i followed your suggestion but it did not work...i am waiting for threestooges , or any other friend who knows , for help.. &hlp
thanks once again. :thumbsup:
ah, sorry i couldnt help more. but ive re-read this thread and sam made a comment that jogged my memory. i remember reading somewhere that you cannot place props on the water cause they will always sink to the bottom, thats why i had to convert my ships into buildings and then create a building lot which floats on water. the only way to get a prop to float is to make sure it's offset. you might try one of pegs trawlers. i am pretty sure that 1 or more of them are offset and should appear on the water, unfortunately pegs scows are not offset.
actually, a good idea might be to try editing 1 of pegs lots (or any others) which have a boat on it. it might give you an idea of how it works.
maybe somebody else will jump in here and offer their expertise. keep at it, the L.E. is a great tool.
...so , according to jmdude1 post above , i used peg's trawlers to see what will happen , and here is the results...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftrawler.jpg&hash=00547f98debd9b1019d856120ccdf59ad345b772)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftrawler1.jpg&hash=be6a30a6c8e6db71b4383a3b3f00c77e801bbf49)
as we can see , it is better now as the ship do not sink , but still it is not what we want as the lot seem to be under the ship (as photo) ...i also think that the ship do not seem that sit in the sea level.... &hlp &hlp
thanx again jmdude1 :thumbsup:
VeTram: Sorry I haven't checked into this thread recently. I remember reading a discussion about that 'black hole' thing that seems to be happening, and I will see if I can find out why it is happening now. Jeronij's method (I thought) was supposed to avoid causing that. One thing I suggest you try is to go into the graph menus of the game and select 'zones' and then turn it off. This is a trick used to try to get rid of that hole. I will do some research and see what else I can come up with, but if anyone else has any suggestions in the meantime, please feel free to jump in.
Also, to make placing the lots easier, you only need 1 land and 1 water tile in the LE. Try to keep them spaced apart. The land and water tiles REQUIRE the space they are on to be over land or water. If they are right next to each other, it can make placement difficult on shallow sloped shorelines. Try to give it 1-2 spaces between the land and water LE pieces.
-edit- After a quick look around the forums, I noticed something in sam's boat making tutorial here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2443.0) go about 2/3 through the first post to the part that says 'Getting Rid of the Building Foundation' and try that. I'm not sure if that is the solution, but the symptoms seem to match. I will keep looking, but that might be a good place to start.
threestoges , thanx for answering , but here are my more recently news...
I thought to read some of sam tutorial "making boats that float on water" and i set the Foundation Threshold to 50 , the Lot Elevation Change Maximum to 50 ( this is the price originally set up by peg) and the Lot Elevation Minimum Change to 0. After that i went into Reader and followed jeronij's tutorial , deleting the texture properties , and here are the results...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Ftrawler2.jpg&hash=52f11023f5f01c5d2d592a867763e3698e09b8de)..............
much better hm?...
so , the colclusion is that WE NEED SHIPS OFFSET RENDERED , but as we have mentioned peg's scows are NOT offset rendered...so the question is for jmdude1 ....how manage to make the scows vertical to dock , as seen in his first post into this thread?? jmdude1 ??
Good to hear you got things working and that all that is needed is an offset prop. I would wait to hear jmdude1's response first, but from the looks of the picture he showed earlier, those were made with sam's boat making tutorial and plopped separate from the lot. Thanks, by the way, jmdude1 for figuring out that offset prop thing.
sam wrote , that if we drop the .dat file into root plugin folder ( does it means my documents\plugins ?) and use the PIM , you can have the xml file....as i even do not know what is the xml file , i did so , and i can not see anything in the PIM.. really what is xml file , and how do we know if a dat file has xml file??....jmdude1 &hlp &hlp
QuoteWE NEED SHIPS OFFSET RENDERED
The green trawler is based loosely on the "Andrea Gail" from the movie Perfect Storm? I've done another trawler called the "Maggie May" off the left hand side of the dock. These are offset rendered and float nicely. Note how the hull below the water line is visible in shallow water but (pictured further down) does not when sailing in deep water. I set Peg's and City nuts ships on this concept lot for comparison (details, scale, color palette).
I have plans for more commercial ships. But those things take some time. I find it interesting that you guys are working on sea side lots. Other people are working as well and hopefully we'll all arrive at the same destination.
I'm trying to figure out how to make sailors and place them on board in working positions. I've been searching for tutorials on how to make models of the human body for that past week and a half. Extrememly difficult to do in gmax! But I'm learning. I'll get there.
Andrea Gail comparison with Peg's larger commercial trawler..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2FAndreaGailStern.jpg&hash=d1516ba9b7f6e68392b3fc8b7a911e696e023e23)
Side View with dock and dock props.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2FAndreaGailSide.jpg&hash=1f0d572675c11b0299e6c4a66c2d4c7eb53c4384)
Andrea Gail heading out to sea (the water line is more obvious)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2FAndreaGail-1.jpg&hash=d9b406b8e6dc47dc9a5acf76a83a3acece28efab)
Rockport boat house
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2FRockportShack.jpg&hash=262eb7c48393f409d2be0de57b869f3d2e6487c5)
well its good to see you got things to work for pegs trawlers, although, threestooges is right about the scows, they are not props but buildings (the ones in my pic), which means that they are their own seperate lot, not attached to any dock, but with careful plopping you can get them reasonably close to the dock, or next to each other or sailing off into the sunset, its up to you. the only downfall with this is that for each boat lot you create, you will add another icon in your menu list. i have about 25 boat icons in my seaport menu which are mostly pegs stuff. these of course can be organized to be placed in any menu or menu position you want, but that can be done once youve got your boat lots made.
in the links i posted earlier there was another link to another great tutorial by andreas which is at the bottom of this page: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1791.0
i think this will help you when trying to create your floating scows and it will answer your question about xml files too.
just another small note, none of these ideas are actually mine...hehe...im just recycling what ive learned from others who have helped me. :)
jmyers2043: im liking those boats that youve made, very nice, are they released anywhere? or do you know where to find other boats?
jmdude1 , thanks once again for all your help since now , and i hope to help me a little more just to come into a final conclusion.
so please tell me a bat file is the same as a model file?
the only model files that i have into my PIM is the three model files that came with the game
where can i see bat files or model files ( if this is the same) from my plugins folder in PIM? &hlp &hlp
i believe that the PIM only reads your plugins root directory (my docs/sc4/plugins). basically a bat is a model. techincally though, you would use bat (building architect tool) to create a model (ie. a building). so you want to use the .model file.
so if you read andreas' explanation in the previous link i gave you i think you should be ok. when opening pegs scow .dat file, each scow has 3 exemplar files, 1 is static (always appears, there are no numbers after the name) and the other 2 are timed (appear at certain times of the day, includes the times in the name), so choose carefully as to which one you want.
so when you are finished your new file will be a .desc file (which andreas explains about) and then you will create a lot file (edit a landmark). you should be able to replace the landmark building with one of pegs scows. then you can save it, remove the base textures and youre good. since the scow is now a building, it wont sink to the bottom so i dont think you need to edit the foundation or threshold this time. if you do all the scows, you will have a lot and desc file for each scow, and all the model files will still be in pegs original dat file.
thanks so much jmdude1 &apls &apls :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.....for all your help
For another time it is already too late here , and i must wake up early in the morning for work...
BUT
i think my friend , with your help , i have come to final solutions....i will return back tomorrow , with details
thanks again...i hope you will let me add you to my friends list.
alright, sounds good! i hope you get it to work...i will be waiting to see some pics. :) if not, we will keep trying.
sure, you can add me to your friends list.
Quote from: VeTram on July 05, 2008, 11:08:43 PM
so , the colclusion is that WE NEED SHIPS OFFSET RENDERED , but as we have mentioned peg's scows are NOT offset rendered...
I've just quickly browsed through this thread, being on vacation as I am...
However, it is possible to offset models without re-rendering them. Check
Chrisim's tutorial here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4093.0It would also be possible to convert a prop's resource key to
Resource Key Type 4,
which does allow offset values for a model that isn't rendered offset. Take a look at this post:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4789.msg162006#msg162006You may take a look at Somy's ships in his prop pack N° 4 (on the LEX).
Those ships are using RKT4's to be offset in all four directions.
This would also not require you to include the model file,
which you would have to if you change the model according to Chrisim's tutorial.
RippleJet , Thanks for your useful comments , which i will read carefully exactly after completely finish the purpose of this thread. I am now in a point , that after so many efforts , together with great help from friends here , very close to the wanted target.
Today , i have started to use the scows in game , and there is something that i noticed , which i believe i know where it comes from. As you may see in the pic below there is a distance between scows that i think that is because the lot of scows is 2x4 tiles , although in the pic of friend jmdude1 on his first post in this thread seems they are nice close together.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Fscows.jpg&hash=2f201bf3c828d17dde2860b060ce16aa8238c619)
I tried to make lots smaller in width (1 instead of 2) but i get a message from L.E that i may not save a lot that has objects extending beyond it's bounds.
So , once again i wonder how jmdude1 , managed to put the scows so close together ? jmdude1 &hlp
And something more , that i am wondering....can i delete the desc files after making the lot? At the moment i have them into my plugins folder.
jmyers2043 , thanks for your comments , and i will also ask you the same as jmdude1 asked ...are they released anywhere?
congratulations, you got it to work. :thumbsup:
im not sure why you arent allowed to put the scows on a 1x4 lot. i think thats what mine were on. if you check back to one of the 1st links i gave you about my original question, my pic shows a 1x4 lot under the scow. im confused why it wont work for you....it should work ok. maybe try it again? ()what() let me know if you can get them to a smaller width.
also, you need to keep the .desc file for each scow. i made a folder for each scow into which i put the .desc and lot files in.
and just in case jmyers doesnt get back to this thread, he mentioned to me that the boats he made are not released......yet. :)
jmdude1 my friend , so your lot is 1x4 &mmm......i have tried so , but the problem is that one tile width seems not enough for the "scow building" to insert in, as it needs two tiles width.. &mmm....so the problem is the width not the lengh...
i hope anyone can help , and thanks jmdude once again for all informations :thumbsup:
alright, well i have my L.E. opened and im looking at a scow right now. i used a width of 4 and a depth of 1. but i dont think width or depth matters as long as the lot is 4x1 (or 1x4), just rotate your scow to fit the lot properly. with my 4x1 lot, i have lots of room on both sides of the scow, but the front and back of the scow are almost touching the edges of the lot, not quite though. i had to zoom in more just to make sure though. also, if you look at my pic here
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2434.0
you can see that my scow fits on a 1 tile wide lot with room to spare. perhaps you could post a pic of your lot in the L.E. window?
ok , my friend jmdude1 , i have finally managed to fix the scows to be placed nearer. I discovered that finally there is only one lot that can not fit in a 1x4 lot , and that is the lot with the first scow , and the other scows (coloured ,etc) fit ok . So i will only have one scow that i can not place near the other scows , and so i will leave it that way.
I am already , preparing the dock in the game to place the scows , and i will surely post very soon , an image that i will dedicate to you. Once again thanks so much for all your interesting and useful help.
I am thinking to continue with this thread with any other project that may appear, and in fact another idea came into my mind...I decided to try to follow the diagonal side ( see the first image that i posted with the dock in Pireaus) in the infront of the dock. And i am wondering if there are any custom content (ships) that i can place it diagonal in dock. I looked at STEX , ( BSC Exchange is temporarily off ) and PLEX , and i did not find anything similar..so, is there anyone knows where i can find diagonal ships? ( if they exist)
..jmdude1 :thumbsup:
hi vetram,
well im afraid i only know of 1 set of ships that are diagonal and they can be found here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?page=1&Keyword=cockatoo%2D210893&view=all#
a good thing about this pack is that they are all ready to plop. :) no work needed. if you search by the user name, there are also 2 other waterfront type lots he made (marina wall and dock) which might interest you...or not. ive also had no luck with diagonal content for the waterfront, aside from seawalls. hope this helps a bit!
edit: my link show all of cockatoos uploads, but the waterfront stuff is on the 1st page.
jmdude1 my friend , thanks once again for the link , and generally for all your help. Unfortunately , the project is out of the realism of my dock, mostly because it is completely in Asian type , which is quite different than European style. Also and the ships , are the same Asian style..
Anyway , i have looked around , and i couldn't find any diagonal ship , and so i will leave it for the moment and just wait to be lucky in the near future. I hope any creator is reading this ...
As for the diagonal docks , i will use Jeronij's Shore Conforming Seawalls 2007 , with a little tranforming into L.E , and let's hope the same as the diagonal ships , for the near future..
Now , i want to continue , but i do not know if i must move into other forum , or stay here. Perhaps a moderator can tell me..
For the continuation , i am facing another challenge....
I have Peg's Bubbas Barge , which i want to use , but i dont want the whole lot . I want only the Crane Barge to float near the dock. I followed the known tutorial by sam "floating Lots on Water" but i think here we do not have any model ,as the Crang Barge are simple props. So , i am wondering if this is something that can be done...which means to float props on water...
here is and an image of Bubbas barge..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2FBubbasBarge.jpg&hash=223cb1eb3bb8caa4d224b543478545237eba40e4)
actually, i also use jeronij's seawalls too, they look great. and i also agree about the diagonal ships, i hope a creator is reading this. but if you want to make a request, there is a bat request thread, somebody might be able to help there in constructing some nice diag. ships.
as for bubbas barge, i will have to take a look at it. i downloaded it too but for some reason i havent edited these to float on their own, perhaps because the lot itself is a dependancy? im not sure. if the barges are props then thats good. you just do exactly as you did with the scows, which were also props, so you need to create a .desc file from another model and copy the needed info.
Can i ask something rather stupid , that i want to ask since a long time ago?...
In order to understand better what i want to mean ( english is a little pain for me..) , i will use an example , on a project that i am working now..
I want to transform a little the Logistics Centres MegaPack , and i want to understand what kind of Exemplar file it is , and i want to ask the same question in general.. which means i open the lot in Reader , and i can see it is a CS$$ logistic centre plop ...so my question is where can we see what kind of Ememplar file a lot is , and how we can make a CS$$ ploppable while in PIM seems that CS Buildings are growable?....or in other words , what kind of lot should i use in PIM ,( where should i drag and drop the model file) if i wanted to create a lot with a similar exemplar file like Logistic center lot?
I hope you understand what i want to mean , but as i want to be as simple as i can , i will ask the same in other words and try to make it simple...
well , when i want to create a new lot and use some props , from other custom lots , and i want this lot to be in the area of seaport ( lets say on a dock , or a pier) , what kind of building should i use in PIM?
and more , how can i distinguish and , what kind of building was used in PIM , for any custom lot?
jmdude1 , thanks for replying once again...just forget my last post for the moment , as i am working hard , to finish the pier i want to show with the vertical ships. Very , very soon i will be able to post it and dedicate it to you... :thumbsup:...i am in the last details , but many times details are very important...
You are asking many questions and I would suggest that you go here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=307.0 and take the zip attached at the bottom of the first post as it is a Word document. There is something wrong with the formatting of the main post but I have asked Jeroni to look at it. It is essentially the same as the contents of the zip so just take that.
The information regarding what type of building used is in the Occupant Group property of the building exemplar. There is a way of making ploppables with jobs but you need to carefully follow SG's tutorial - http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=140&threadid=76236&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Making%20A%20Functional%20Landmark%20Lot -
With regard to seaports, these and airports are specialised and you can only replace the Maxis seaport with one of your design unless you make a new seaport developer file. I suggest you read the threads about functional seaports here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=241.0 as that shows the type of problems that can occur.
Good luck with your lotting.
vetram: "well , when i want to create a new lot and use some props , from other custom lots , and i want this lot to be in the area of seaport ( lets say on a dock , or a pier) , what kind of building should i use in PIM?
and more , how can i distinguish and , what kind of building was used in PIM , for any custom lot?"
im not sure, but i think this is the only part i can help with if i understand correctly. when you create a new plop lot, often you dont need to put a building on it (unless you want your boats). when i create my lots, i just edit the simcity 1x1 grass file. on this lot there is a small building on it but its flat so it doesnt show up on the lot. this way, i dont need to add any buildings and i can just use props. for example, you mentioned the logistics center. i know you can download the large warehouse models and use them as props, actually these are great cause they are in a prop family as well, so each time you plop the lot you will get a different warehouse, which means you only need to make 1 lot with the prop family on it and you can get different results each time its plopped. so you can use the 1x1 grass lot, make it larger and place a warehouse on it, along with many other props. if your lot is too small, these props wont show up in the L.E. list, so make sure your lots is big enough.
i have posted pics of this here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2931.0#top
check out page 1 and 5 for what i have done. none of these lots have building on them (except for the flat invisible building), just props. i hope this helps?? im not quite sure i answered your question or not. if you open the 1x1 grass tile, you can see what i mean by 'flat building'.
maybe barby's post was more of what you were looking for? but thats beyond what i can do. i just create plop lots with no jobs and i only use the reader or sc4tool to edit the names, menu, menu position and stats of the lots. let me know if this helps or not.
BarbyW : Thanks so much for replying , and for the link . :thumbsup:
I will read it carefully and i will come back to mention my impressions, as i had never noticed that link before. I don't know if i will find the answers to the main question of my above post , but for sure i will let you know when i finish it reading.
As for the link of SG , about making ploppables with jobs i have already read it , and i think i will read it again, but this is not what i wanted to mean with my questions.. I dont know , how else's perhaps i ought to write my questions , for others to understand what i want to mean.. so, i stop the questions here , and after reading your guide i will surely return back. For the moment i will just write , that when i am talking about seaports , i do NOT mean fuctional seaports , ( my purpose is not to customise fuctional seaports ) but i mean every other part of a seaport ( like piers , docks , warehouses , etc ) thanks so much once again.. :thumbsup:
jmdude1 , my good friend , i think with your answer that you are much nearer to my questions , but please let me read Barby's Guide first , and i will let you know. By the way ,i saw your work in your custom lots , and they are very good indeed , to my poor opinion. I think we can become a team in the near future , and help eachother ( ok ok i know that i can not help you , yet ) :D
Finally , i want to say that when i opened this thread i wasn't sure if i wanted to follow L.E , but now after almost 2 pages full of informations and great help from all friends here , i am sure that it really worths the ...pain....i will return back very soon
Here i am once again!....After a short period of absence , i return back and i post some first images from my project. Of course as you will see it is not finished yet , but it is a first result of everything mentioned above into this thread.
I want to especially dedicate this project , to friend jmdude1 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:, and of course to all friends here.
As always it is already too late here , and it is really very , very hot night, so i will surely return tomorrow and mention my impressions...hope you like it , and dont forget it is not finished yet..
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nice work vetram! i like what i see. youve done a lot of work here. lots of ships and a good space for them to move around in. you should post some pics in the 'show us your seaport' thread, they might be seen by a lot more people and you might get some good feed back by other people. im looking forward to seeing more!
jmdude1 my friend , thanks so much for your support , and your impressions. I will post many images in the continuation , as soon as i will have finished my work. By the way do you mean the thread in Simtropolis when you mention to post in "show us your seaport" ?
-Tomorrow early in the morning i am leaving for short vacations in a Greek Island. I am going to rest for about a week , and quess what? ...Yes! you are right!...i am taking the game with me , with all the tutorials and PIM and L.E of course...I hope there is an Internet connection there , so i can be in touch.. ;)
many many thanks once again. :thumbsup:
thats good news, i really hope to see more when you are finished. my seaport is also a work in progress, its take a lot of work to create a realistic port, as you already know. its good to hear that youre going to continue with your work, youve made some really nice things.
have a great time in the greek islands! i was in athens for a week in 2003, i had a great time but unfortunately i didnt have time to go to the islands. have a great vacation and dont work (on sc4) too much! hehe.
also, check out this section of the forums: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=14.0
all the 'show us your......' threads are there, including the seaport thread. :thumbsup: im sure others would be happy to see your work as well.
Hello VeTram - I like your port. Especially the lighthouse and road that leads to it. You've done a good job with the inner harbor.
-Hi to all friends :)...I feel very happy that i returned back to the site , after a short period of vacations.. :)
Unfortunately there was an Internet cafe far away from where i stayed , and i never managed to reach it.. &cry2
Of course i had taken the game with me , together with all the tutolials and help informations , but i never had the time i wanted to have , as my girlfriend was with me... :bomb: ( she really hate me!..whenever i am opening my pc ... :D) ..I read a little , and worked little either , as you will see below...
-Anyway , back to home now and immediately back to site..
-Dear friend jmdude1 , i am glad that you liked so far my work , and i really hope that we can become a team and continue together at whatever we are making , just like a team , helping eachothers. Thanks for the link ( i only knew Simtropolis similar thread) ..i will check it all carefully and enjoy it, as there are many pages , as i can see. I will also post my work there very soon , but i also wanted to know if there is any other thread that someone can post his work , and receive help , or advices and opinions while the project is on procress?
- Friend jmyers2043 , thanks also for your support , but i have changed the pier that leads to the lighthouse somehow , as you will see in the pic below...i hope you still like it.
-For the moment i would like a moderator to tell me , what i must do. Should i continue to this thread , or should i open another thread in another place of forums. What i want to do? ...I want to continue my work , showing it to others , that are willing to help and tell their opinion , while the project is on procress. Moderator i hope you understand what i mean.
-And finally for the moment i post an image of a little transformation mostly at pier leading to lighthouse and some additions , during vacations.. thanks again to all friends for all support :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo184%2Fvetram%2Fikoniogame5.jpg&hash=bd14fab6869ab140ada63f8fbb86a9a8c9c8b9ab)
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VeTram,
its good to see youre back again. i think its a good thing the internet cafe was far away so you can have a good holiday. i like your updated pics. your port will look great once you finish it and surround it with buildings. i agree about having a thread where you can showcase your progress, i think this thread is no longer only about LE help. maybe you could pm a moderator so they can help you. and of course we can continue to help each other. im also sure others will help anytime you ask. i just do lot editing work while others have a great deal of knowledge which is way beyond me. but i will always offer help when i can.
ive been looking at your pics and thought i might add some constructive criticism. these are just my thoughts on your pics: i think that you may have too many green/red buoys in the water. some of those ships might have a hard time navigating around them.
also, a preference of many people is to remove the yellow pause line around your screen. you can find the mod here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18680&v=1
im not sure if you have this problem or not, but many of my port buildings are LM with no jobs so i dont get too much traffic on the roads. you can try a power search on the LEX for swamper77. he has made some great train and freight truck traffic generators.
i like how you used the logistics warehouse pack in the 3rd pic. the rail lines up nicely with pegs waterfront warehouse. nice work there! also, good work with the barges! i havent edited them yet. hehe. if you want, check out the show us your seaport thread. i added some pics there last week. keep up the good work!
I have moved this to the LE Projects section as you are not longer requesting help and are showing some promising projects.
thanks a lot BarbyW :thumbsup:...I suppose that i can continue , in the same thread in this forum , and not open a new one..
-So, as i have already written above , my intention is to continue my project showing it to others that are willing to help and express their opinion and criticism. I dont know if the word "showcase" ( it has a little strange meaning in Greek language) is the right word in english , but that is my intention , and i suppose BarbyW lead me to the right forum.
-Also , i will need help of course , and this was the reason that i opened this thread in LOT Editor HELP forum in the begining. You see , i am making my first steps in L.E , but i strongly believe that it is a great tool that is necessary to use it in game , if we want to add more and more realism in the game.
-For the beginning i think i must mention some words about the history and the idea of that project.. I will try to be as brief as i can...
-This project is inspired from a real harbour in Greece , it's name is Piraeus and its one of the biggest ports in Europe and the biggest in Greece.
I wanted to create a big , realistic port , following the steps of great post "Building a port" by Emilin , which is a MUST read for everyone that wants to deal with ports in game..
-So , i discovered that great post by Emilin &apls , and at the same time i discovered Google Earth in net . A new region was opened into my eyes , as i am dreaming to create a big seaport that has it all parts of a big seaport , like Emilin describes.. which means a Container Seaport , a Bulk Seaport , a passenger Seaport etc..
-I dont know yet , how many cities/parts of the whole seaport this region is going to finally have , but i since now i am sure about at least three (3)..i am now working on one of them that contains the Container and Bulk Seaport. I am working on it about the last 2 months , and during that period i realised that if i really wanted to create a realistic seaport , i ought to use L.E...and the questions began.. ()what() :bomb: :bomb:.i opened a thread in L.E help , and i spend most of the time dealing with L.E , which slowed a lot the progress of the project...you can see where i have reached since now , in the images that i have already posted above...you can take a look and tell me your opinion...i am open to ideas , criticism , and of course help!...this is the history in a few words...but i am afraid i have already written too much , and i have to stop and start to work ...i will continue very soon i hope ...i ought to apologize for my poor english &ops, i will do my best to be as correct as i can in the continuation..
p.s : jmdude1 thanks so much for all your support and criticism...i hope we will stay together in that journey of our projects..next time i will continue with your thoughts in your last post.. thanks once again ... :thumbsup:
-Hi to all once again... :)
-Before continue , i would like to ask the moderator the following...whenever i want to ask for help in L.E or for help generally in game , should i ask from here at this forum , or should i open a new thread somewhere else in forums, or return back to LOT EDITOR HELP forum?
For example , i want to ask something like the following....well, i have noticed that whenever i am trying to make a corner in the game i see something like this in the following image...
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...this is a great problem for me , because it force me to think of other ideas to render the corner that i have into my mind..and many times i get a different result from what i want to have. More concrete in my project, i wanted to render the pier in the first image with the lighthouse in the end of the pier. I forced to change it , as seen in second image , because i had the problem with the corner in the barge that is near the lighthouse..
first image..
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So, i made it a pier 3x3 lot ,in order to avoid the corner, and i think i am not satisfied with the result..
second image...
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Also i will surely face the same problem in the continuation , and i can not avoid the corners always ofcourse.. I hope my poor english , were enough to understand my problem.
is there a solution to this?
At the same subject , there is something more i want to ask for help.. if i want the pier to be 1x1 like the first image , and there is no room of course for a street , can i make transit enable the lots instead of a street , till the end of that street to the lighthouse? I think i know how to make a street or road to pass through the lot , but is it possible to put a transit enable lot next to eachother?
-So , as you can see ,there are questions that needs an answer , and of course there will be more in the future..that's why i am wondering if i am in the right forum...
-jmdude1 my good friend
Thanks so much once again for your constructive criticism. You are always into my mind, as this is exactly what i need more.
More concrete ( i hope this is the right word as i found it in the dictionary) , i will surely reduce the green/red buoys , as i was just trying to see the sea-roads when i am placing them..you see , it is a big port with lot of ships and lots of sea-roads of course.
Thanks also for the link , for the yellow line. I have already followed your advice.
About the problem with not much traffic on roads , i have not reached yet into this point, but i will check it and will let you know. My lots are parks , should i use LM instead? is there any difference? Since now , i have just customised some already lots with jobs , but i have read SimGoober's tutorial about how to make ploppable lots with jobs , and i will try to create such lots whenever needed. Really , are there any standards in traffic? and in our busy ports surely we need lot of traffic.. thanks for mentioning about swamper's77 traffic generators , we will see about that in the continuation.
So , you liked the logistics warehouses and barges?.that's nice...i like them also , and i think i will leave them as they are now.
-As everybody knows every project needs a lot a work , and of course that means a lot of time , which is not so easy at all...I find myself to spend a lot of time in the site and forum , and there is no time left for the game finally....but we like what we do isn't it? ...so , time for returning to game..see you soon.. ;)
QuoteI think i know how to make a street or road to pass through the lot , but is it possible to put a transit enable lot next to eachother?
the simple answer to that is no there is no way to put transit enabled lots next to each other.
You can continue to ask questions in this thread or you can ask each question separately in the LE Help Forum.
As for the corners problem, you can by careful terraforming get a square corner but it is not easy to do. You will have to practise until you can do it as there is no easy way to explain.
Barbyw thanks for replying..i knew that it is no way to put transit enabled lots next to each other , so here comes my stupid question...
As seen in the following image , i just have a lighthouse in the end of the road..since (if i am not wrong) the lighthouse hasn't jobs , why must need a road connection?..
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i say so , because i was thinking to move completely the road that across the pier , and use lots eyecandy only which doesn't need road connection , but as you can see in the image the query needs road connection to the lighthouse...why? ( of course i deleted the street connection just to see the result)
As for the square corner , i really have tried hard to find the way to do it , but since now with no result...any idea or help also with that?
thanks ...
i have an idea for the no road zot. you can open the lot in the SC4Tool (easiest way for me) and in the lot file there is a line called .....roadsrequired... or something like that. i think if you go in there and uncheck any roads selected and save, you should no longer need roads for that lot. back up your file and give it a try to see if it works. i do that with my industrial lots quite often, ive never edited a game lot this way though.
jmdude1 , my friend nice to see you again. :)
-As you see , as long as i am trying to continue with project , always new questions come into my mind...some of them have to do with L.E , others with the game generally . I think i know the answers for some of them already , but i ask because i want to be sure...
-At my question in my previous post , i think i know the answer , and the answer i think is that some lots ( like the lighthouse) have road connection in some of their tiles. Also i think fuctional lots with jobs need road connection. As i saw in query , the lighthouse is not a fuctional lot ...am i right? but still want a road connection , because in the edge of it's tiles has a road connection...am i right?
-The lighthouse in an official Maxis RW , so i tried to transform it in L.E , but there was no option to save as. Only option is save. But shouldn't i change the official RW that way? So i didn't go on , and i left it..but the new questions arrived into my mind...Can't transform official lots? Is it possible to enter the lighthouse building in another custom lot? Also noticed props like seagulls , or lightbeam , a green somehow diamont in an elevation ...what about all these? ...didnt notice anything about that in tutorials
-Well , i suggest to Moderator BarbyW , to return that thread into the old forum it used to be ( L.E help) , as there are too many questions arrise every time i open the game , and hopefully open a new thread here that i can showcase my work...I suggest so , because i think it would be much more easier for someone to read exactly what he wants. Help with L.E , or L.E showcase.. i think i am in both of them now..
Waiting forward for an answer , in order to continue.....thanks
Moved as per request.
To answer some of your questions:
1. The lighthouse does have jobs so needs a road connection.
2. When you start with a Maxis reward and only have the option to Save you actually get a second copy of the lot file into plugins. It doesn't change the main simcity_1.dat file. To continue to get yourself a useable lot you need to do a lot of modding. You need to extract a copy of the building exemplar from the simcity_1.dat and embed it it into you new lot file. You need to give YOUR lot a new IID and reference that throughout the lot file. You also need to change some of the properties and the filename.
3. The lighthouse itself is not a prop so without considerable modding it is difficult to put it on another lot.
4. The green diamond is the Effect_seagulls prop and should be used sparingly as it uses a lot of resources. The lightbeam is an animation found in the ARW section of the props list.
I hope this helps but it seesm to me as though you are trying to do things to advanced for your current stage. I suggest using JRJ's excellent lighthouse for the end of his breakwater would solve all your problems.
..Another stupid , but very important question for me...well , whenever i want just to change some things in a ready made original /or custom lot ( like the original RW Lighthouse, or a custom lot ) , should i need to extract a copy of the building exemplar , and give my new lot new IID and reference throughtout the lot file ( as you wrote) ? Isn't it enough to just make some changes and save my new lot? or in other words....should i need a new building and lot exemplar whenever i change a ready made original /or custom lot?
thanks BarbyW for moving me into my old forum , and thanks for all informations and support.. :thumbsup:
hi vetram, sorry i havent been here for some time but its been a busy week for me. i somewhat agree with what barby says, the lighthouse seems to be a big project. but if you back up your files and read some good tutorials, then you could give it a try. if not, you could try using another lighthouse. i think there are a few out there to download and they would be easier to add to a new lot and you wouldnt need road access.
im looking forward to an update on your progress as always.
jmdude1 my friend , i am glad to find you again. :)
-Lately , i have stopped temporarily my project , as i am trying to concentrate in L.E and its secrets... I decided to take another look at my custom lots , as i am not satisfied with some results, and also because i wanted nothing to be wrong with them . I have started with the lighthouse and the road that leads to it. I searched for informations and help but there are so many informations around that sometimes makes things more confusing than they really are ..
-I have posted another question above , but unfortunately i do not see any answer yet.. so i decided to look everywhere i can for some more help and support. Anyway one thing i can say for sure..i won't give up and i will continue .. i always count on your polite support , and i hope that very soon , i will return back to my project and open a post in "show us your seaport"
-I have asked from BarbyW to move my thread into this forum , because i felt i was not ready for making this step yet.. I always have too many questions , and i will not hesitate to swim into deep waters , if i have so in order to reach my target in the project and feel satisfied :satisfied: with the result.
jmdude1 my friend , i have some ideas into my mind , and when i will be sure i will post them , so keep in touch :thumbsup:
hi vetram,
what you have done is perfectly normal. i have also gone back and redone all of my lots. as more great custom content comes out its hard to not want to update previous lots to make them better. as for your question above (about extracting the building exemplar), i dont think you need to do this as long as you give your new lot a unique name (using the 'save as' option). im sure you have noticed that many people use their own prefix before their lots to make sure nobody uses the same names, such as JRJ for jeronij and SG for simgoober, etc. this is also a good way to find their work easily because you can just search for their prefix.
i have also been working more with the LE lately, creating more boats that float as i find them as well as looking at the 'effects' that can be added to lots.
as always, feel free to ask any questions, or post any answers you may discover. :)
also, feel free to call me jeff if you want. its more personable and its better than my username here. :thumbsup: keep up the good work my friend.
and another edit. hehe. i thought of a question to ask you while i was looking at your photos above. i see you were able to create your own floating barge by pegasus. i have had trouble with this barge. i did the crane barge with no problem but this has been more difficult because its a prop family i think. ive noticed it uses 'resource key type 4' rather than the normal 'resource key type 1' and it also used the building/prop family property. did you copy this to your new file? and did you create a type 4 or type 1 resource key for your lot? thanks for any help. :)
Jeff my friend , you are the first friend ever that asks me something! :) it really sounds a little funny to me.. :)
As for your question , unfortunately i can not help you right now , as i really do not remember &Thk/( how i did that.. But i promise early tomorrow i will check it and reply with details.
Since then , you can also feel free and call me Antoni (Tony in english if you prefer) ;)
thanks antoni. theres no rush to answer my question. i always have a few things im working on. also, barby might know the answer if she sees this, or another member might help.
thanks again!
Dear Jeff
-To answer to your question , it was finally easy to remember. What you see in the image , is NOT a floating barge. It is just a custom lot that was made with SAVE AS , to the similar custom lot by Pegasus. Nothing more.
-In case you are interested to make a floating barge , we may try together and see what happens. ok? :thumbsup:
Whenever you take an existing ploppable lot, whether is it a custom one or a Maxis one, make changes in LE and Save As the lot you get will have the building exemplar for the original lot so you will need to change the name etc to suit the lot you have made. If you do that with a growable you do need to find the building exemplar and mod a copy to fit your lot.
Well , i am afraid i need some help .. %confuso
-I am looking desperately for some props , but i can not find what i need.. my question is , where and how can somenone search for props? For example i need some stairs for my lighthouse.. are they exist ? where and how to look for? I am sure that i will also need other props in the contiunuation of my project , so i was wondering how others look for them either? %confuso
-I was wondering , if i could create some different lots , and put every prop in it's own category...could that be possible? or is there any other way , that i can see props before i use them? how? %confuso
Quote from: VeTram on August 21, 2008, 10:14:34 AM
or is there any other way , that i can see props before i use them? how? %confuso
Serkanner once started a project of showcasing all prop packs.
You can see those he has finished here:
http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc75/BSC_SeeThemOl/...and read about
SeeThemOl here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2471.msg88460#msg88460
Thanks RippleJet , that's exactly what i had in my mind, in fact i knew that since i saw it looking for something similar this morning.
But , i am afraid that looking at the images in the photo album some props are too small and i can not hardly understand what they really are!...is there any way to make even larger the image , more that full size in photobasket?....also i read the thread and i noticed that it has not been updated since many months ago...do you know something?
thanx anyway
Quote from: VeTram on August 21, 2008, 03:41:30 PM
But , i am afraid that looking at the images in the photo album some props are too small and i can not hardly understand what they really are!...is there any way to make even larger the image , more that full size in photobasket?....
Those are the only pics there are (I suppose you clicked on them to look at the images one-by-one).
Quote from: VeTram on August 21, 2008, 03:41:30 PM
also i read the thread and i noticed that it has not been updated since many months ago...do you know something?
Unfortunately RL has kept Serkanner away from this and other projects of his.
something to ask ....the code numbers in the L.E like ( like 0x.....) are always the same for props?
If you mean are the IIDs - the 0x number - the same each time for the same props, the answer is yes. Each prop whether it is a Maxis prop or a custom one has a unique IID and it does not change each time you open LE.
is it the same number in every case? ...i want to mean is it the same number in my pc or in your pc?....and something else's...the props exist in every category of lots or every category of lots (e.g pz) has its own props?
It is the same number no matter whose computer it is on.
so , why not have let's say an excel file where we can have all the props with their names? we can have a description of every prop so that a Lotterer , can find them easily. we can put them also in categories like ( e.g flora , or lights and so on..)
If you would like to do that, I am sure it will be useful BUT there are 1000s of props so it would take a long time to do.
Quote from: VeTram on August 22, 2008, 12:02:02 PM
so , why not have let's say an excel file where we can have all the props with their names?
It's merely a question of some called "we" making it... maybe
We as in
VeTram? ::)
Honestly, anybody starting on it would soon find him/herself drowning in props...
...there are thousands of them available already and new ones are constantly being made.