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So how do you like the Grand Opening? I thought while creating this challenge, why not make it "Grandiose" at the same time. I couldn't resist. ok, let's get serious now.
First of all and very important for Everyone: Always keep an eye on the Challenges thread. Here we will make the changes if necessary and inform you of the new challenges. Also important final notices etc will be posted in this thread.
[CHALLENGE No 1
««« It was on an early sunny monday morning that the Governor Freddy Bison came into his office in Capitalia with a great idea and said to his secretary: "Get me Hank from the Transportation commission and Pete from the GRR (Grand River Rails) on the phone, we will build roads and rails in the Grand River Valley this week."
Of course, the Governor is me, so you know. ;) »»»
Welcome to the first Challenge of the GRV II with the name of BORDERTOWN. Lynn, my wife, and I are honoured to have so many of You with us this year. We hope you will enjoy this Challenge Play as much as we did last year on ST with GRV I. Let's have some fun all together.
I recommend that you all read the Rules and Restrictions and maybe even have them printed out for futur reference. We will not give you any chance this year, a broken rule is worth some points that we take back. Be advised!
If you have any comments or questions about this challenge, you may ask for help below. We will be pleased to explain and help. Lynn will come in only a few times in the next days, She has come down with a serious Cold this past weekend and needs some time to recover. If you have any other questions or comments not concerning this specific Challenge, post them in the Introduction and Discussion thread please.
You will have exactly until Wednesday Midnight (NY time) March 25th, 2009 for this time only to play the challenge, and then it will start again on Friday the 27th for a period of ten days for the second challenge and so on.
We don't think that you will have any problems to fulfill this first demand, because it took me only one hour and a half of play to do mine. If by any chance you cannot make it, let me know before, we will take it into consideration without any penalities, because there's only one weekend involved this time. But inform me before the deadline.
Challenge: Everything in RED is a MUST DO in this thread!
A. You are asked to build a road/street only (any NAM/SAM pieces are allowed also) through your region. It has to be started on Tile A (see picture below) and finished on Tile M and be connected to the neighbors......And you must go through the region only in one thread, meaning no intersections or turn offs at all. Not one! And besides that you will have to build it on 6 citytiles of your choice (including A+M) in one draw.( no more, no less) Make it a logical choice where to place them.
Easy you think...Ha, I thought so too (and darnit, it was my idea), but the hick (challenge) is that you will have to keep this Road/Street in your cities and tiles in the same place for the rest of the challengeplay, and we will keep an eye on it, asking once in awhile a region picture in trafficview while your region is developping if we have any doubt that you changed something. Great.....got a headache now? Good. Me too.
So, you better think it over very well, maybe even twice and really get into mayorly planning first before building, think of your city you will be building in concern of this, the rails, highways, canals and whatever is to come etc, because you'll be stuck with these roads/streets and rails forever. A wrong decision might give you grey hair later. This road/street will be the *mainway* through your region for the first half of this challenge, just like in real life when the first roads were built and everything else was built around it.
(Hint: Make this the Principle/Mainstreet of your first town)
B. Once executed, we want to see 1 picture in whole regionview, while in trafficview of your work. If you will add a logical explanation (not a necessity though) why you've done it like this (planned theory and explanation etc) and show us your talents of Mayoring the region, we might throw in one Bonus point for those who really got it perfect to our liking (Only 1 Bonus point each for 3 Players only). Then we want 1 picture within the citytile (in mayormode) in view 1 (being able to see the whole tile) of one of the following tiles only where you created that road/street. B or E or H. Your choice. This road/Street will bear the number 10. (route 10). That goes for eveyone. Others can be numbered or named to your choice. (There is a reason for this later on).
C. Since this is not all that easy as you think....lol...We want you to build rails in your citytiles too. Again only one rail-line (only regular rails) from a point A to a point B without any intersections or turn offs. This time You have the choice of the beginning and the end, both connected to the neighbors, but need to show us in the same picture as described in Section B, where the road/street is shown. The rails have to be going through 6 citytiles only, including the two that are connected. This will be the mainrails of the region. Further rails will be entirely to your choice. Again make sure that your choice is logical and done according to future constructions. And yes, bridges are allowed in unlimited numbers for both roads/streets and rails.
Put it this way: Since the Governor (me) asks the mayors to build it and also finance it (allowing you a money cheat), these roads/streets and rails will stay federal/national property. That means you have to live with them once placed and shown in your update and only, only the goverment's office (lynn and me) can give you permits to change their route or diplace them in the future.
To show this week in your First update:
1. 1 Picture in Regionview under trafficview with your roads/streets and rails clearly showing (no paintjob/photoshop)
2. 1 Picture of either one tile B, E or H in view 1 with your road/street.
So I heard that last year it was quite easy to play in our sandbox with some plastictoys? Well, we had 7 months to think and talk about the Challenges to come and we changed that a bit, getting more serious into Mayoring now. You like it?
I am sure you will have lots of fun with our new Challenges, not just plopping things and taking a picture like last year, I thought it would be more interesting to see some real mayoring and creational talents. So, you see, it might not be the one who makes the nicest and most beautiful region pics with organized buildings, bridges and public services etc this year, but the most logical decisions on how, where and when to build can earn many points. Think like a real Mayor. We have a whole box of Bonus points ready to give away. Of course, these will not be published or announced until the last 3 Challenges.
We wish you all the best for this first and "easy" challenge and remember, use all your head to build the roads/streets and rails.
Once you have finished and updated the Challenge Nr1 and shown the pics in your thread, you may start building other things on one (1) citytile only of either Tiles B, E or H.(only 1) Your imagination is the limit, but respect the Rules. You may even write a story and show pics of your work after you finalized the challenges above with or without a story, but no points will be given for outside of the challenge updates. That will be only for your and the readers enjoyment. You can build whatever you like to build, even if it is only a small powerstation and a trainstation to start off with or fill the whole map, but be careful not to be too invasive in the beginning. (Hm....was I talking about Bonus points again?)
I would like you to know that Lynn and I will be the only one that give the points. We will judge your creations to our logical sense and this with our experience. We have travelled all over the world many times and have seen many civilizations and their way to build things. Judging you lower than you expected does NOT mean that you have less talent. What might not be beautiful and well done for us does not necessarily mean it's not beautiful and well done for others. Maybe they love it. Taste is something individual. Keep that in mind please, because sometimes our decisions may be dissapointing and discouraging to you.
So don't worry if you get low points, we still love you and think you are brave to have participated in this challenge. Please don't start a serious competition, we are here to have fun only and not to win. Winning will ONLY be a tiny Bonus, just like a small tap on the shoulder, which doesn't bring you anything more than others. Please remember that.
Have Fun
lynncanox & mrbisonm.
One last thing for those who didn't join or did not have the time to join us yet and give everyone the same chance: You will have until Friday midnight, March 21st, 2009 (NY Time) to join the challenge in a hurry and give your name to BarbYW, our secretary General in the Joining Thread with one condition though, to have finished the challenge above (Challenge No 1) by the date given for this Challenge. Can you make it?
Good luck everyone and enjoy.
Get Ready...........on your mark.........Go!
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AAAH....great. Sounds really challenging. Will start right now.
Just one single question. Ok, there are 2. ;)
Is it possible to put a name or a theme or something to our pics, what would mean they're photoshoped, but not essentially.
I'm talking about frames, tilenames, etc, that are not really on, but preciseley next to the pic. I don't want to change any important info of the whole pic.
By the way: Are pix out of the Region Census Tool legal, too?
Quote from: soulchaser on March 16, 2009, 09:30:32 AM
AAAH....great. Sounds really challenging. Will start right now.
Just one single question. Ok, there are 2. ;)
Is it possible to put a name or a theme or something to our pics, what would mean they're photoshoped, but not essentially. Of course! Photoshopping is allowed as long as we can clearly see the features and that it is taken from a SC4 picture made from the game. You may add names, themes, even clouds, sunbursts, give it a different aspect, anything.
I'm talking about frames, tilenames, etc, that are not really on, but preciseley next to the pic. I don't want to change any important info of the whole pic. No problem!
By the way: Are pix out of the Region Census Tool legal, too? Yes, it is part of simcity such as RegionCensus.
Good luck
mrb
Edit: Everything you do to make your pictures nicer looking will only be for the readers, yourself and for the basic presentation, but not be considered as to giving points. Maybe, and just maybe we might throw in one Bonus point for all that were done with paint or photoshop, only one point for all pics for each player, but this, Lynn and I haven't discussed yet.
Ok...I just referring to:
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 07:50:49 AM
1. 1 Picture in Regionview under trafficview with your roads/streets and rails clearly showing (no paintjob/photoshop)
2. 1 Picture of either one tile B, E or H in view 1 with your road/street.
So...you don't want extra pix that are not edited!
Hello MrB. You start by saying:
QuoteIt has to be started on Tile A
Then you say:
Quoteview 1 (being able to see the whole tile) of one of the following tiles only where you created that road/street. B or E or H.
And again you say:
Quotestart building other things on one (1) citytile only of either Tiles B, E or H.(only 1)
My question is: If I start in tile A and if it is totally up to me how I get to M, then how does tile B come into play.
The way I understand it, you can get from A to M anyway you like, but you need at least 1 picture from B, E, or H, and need to start building in one of those tiles. Also, considering the location of B, E, and H, it is impossible to not go through them, unless your road has a teleportation mechanism. ;)
It depends on the route you decide to take so it could go through B, E or H but obviously it will go through one of them. When you start to build your first city it can be in any of those three tiles but no picture of that is required for the challenge.
am I right to assume, that once the two challenge shots are taken i can then build additional road/rail in my chosen BEH tile?
and as a sidenote is there a particular reason the letter J was missed out in the tile labelling?
Just one quick question, for roads and rail the only rules I see it's "no intersections or turn offs", so, I assume that bridges and also tunnels are allowed. ;)
Ok, let me get that picture taking and uploading clear here.
You are allowed to photoshop (or whatever program you have) how and what you want with your pictures in any way (no limitations) , as long as the pictures you upload can be recognizable that they were taken ingame of SC4. Adding of flowers, bldg's, roads, fences, people, cars, ships, creeks, rocks etc and other simcitystuff etc with any paint program is NOT allowed, meaning that only what actually was in the game at the time the picture was taken is to be seen on the picture. But you can add lighting, lettering, logos and everything else that cannot be found in the game itself on, beside, above or under your picture. Make your pictures big enough, so we can see what you have to show.
No other pictures than those 2 mentioned in the Challenge are allowed to be in this update! If you want to show more pictures of anything else, you can show them after you have finished and uploaded your challenge, but only in your regular thread and not in this Challenge No 1 thread.
Here is just an example of what you can do with a paint program. You can see what I want you to see (the building and the garbage around it) is very well visible to us, no other things have been added to the pictures, like cars, boxes etc that weren't already there in the game. We can still see that this picture comes from the game. I made it a little extreme for this demonstration.
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Sorry, but I'm no good with photoshop or paint but I hope the picture question is clear now..
(soulchaser Wenn du irgendwelche Schwierigkeiten noch hast es zu verstehen, ich kann es dir in Deutsch erklaeren.)
BarbyW, I know that I said I want a picture in tileview 1 on either tiles B, E or H You choose where you want the road to lead through, but You have no other choice to go through one of those tiles, unless you dig a tunnel through your whole citytile, and that is not allowed ;)
The road/street has to be started on tile A with a connection to the neighbor (no matter what side) and then go through one of these tiles (B, E or H) to finally end up in tile M to connect again to the neighbor. And we want to see a picture in Mayor mode of that tile where you ran the road/street through. That is for the challenge.
Now concerning where you continue to *freebuild* your city is again limited to tiles B,E,H, but you are only allowed to freebuild on 1 (ONE) of these tiles, where the road/street is, I recommend.
mightygoose, Yes, you can (after you finished your challenge) go outside and play....eh....I mean build roads/streets/rails in the chosen citytile (either B,E,H)
Ok, ...lol...you're the second one who asks me why I left the Letter J out for the tiles, to be honest.....I hate that letter in pictures. Nothing important and nothing will come later because of it.
Rayden, Yes, all bridges and all types of tunnels (mountain, river etc) are allowed
Remember folks, I asked for two (2) pictures Only in YOUR Challenge 1 thread that you will open under your Board. Don't show me dozens of others please. If you want to show more pictures, just throw them into your regular thread that you started your region on. Challenge threads are for challenges only. Keep it so, it will help us not to get confused and it will take us less time and labour to go through your challenge missions. Thank you.
Fred
Edit: some corrections made...mrb
Edit by Barby to correct number of pictures required.
3 pictures? I only counted 2: A region traffic view, and a zoom 1 pic of B, E, or H.
What's the third?
Quote from: Splime on March 16, 2009, 01:10:19 PM
3 pictures? I only counted 2: A region traffic view, and a zoom 1 pic of B, E, or H.
What's the third?
Dohhh!! :o....I got carried away there....lol... You're right, only two (2) pictures asked for, sorry, error is corrected now. Thanks for letting me know, appreciated. :thumbsup:
I hope it didn't scare the heck out of you.....lol :D
mrb
Do I free build in the B, E, or H tile before I take the two pictures for the challenge, or must I wait until I have taken the two pictures (region traffic and zoom 1 BEH)? In other words, should either pic have anything besides the road or rail built?
QuoteAlso, considering the location of B, E, and H, it is impossible to not go through them, unless your road has a teleportation mechanism.
Bzzzzz. Splime gets two points deducted from his first round score for not thinking outside the box.
<edit> removed the rest of the post as I just discovered that I was over analyzing the challenge.
<2nd edit> And as I type the above edit ... Barby responds ... so now the whole thing is cleared up for me but confusing to all reading. &mmm :D
Jim, you don't have to go through tile B. You have to go through at least one of tiles B, E, or H. Once you have your road then you are allowed to choose one of B, E or H to do some more building.
Fred, I understood exactly what you meant from the start but was trying to point out to Jim that you do actually have to pass through one of those three tiles to get from A to M
Small question about the comment we have to start and end the network in A/M. Can the road or rails connect to sim nation, or do you want to see the end piece?
I'm somewhat confused now:
You want us to post the pix for the challenge right here, not on our own "Challange 1"-Boards.
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 12:56:25 PM
Remember folks, I asked for two (2) pictures Only in the the Challenge 1 thread. Don't show me dozens of others please. If you want to show more pictures, just throw them into your regular thread that you started your region on. Challenge threads are for challenges only. Keep it so, it will help us not to get confused and it will take us less time and labour to go through your challenge missions. Thank you.
In your challenge one thread. I shall post mine and then you can see how I am doing it.
Small question, do the rail and the road need to use the same tiles from A to M or are we free to choose 4 ( excluding A/M ) tiles for roads and 4 others tiles for rails?
Quote from: metarvo on March 16, 2009, 01:38:36 PM
Do I free build in the B, E, or H tile before I take the two pictures for the challenge, or must I wait until I have taken the two pictures (region traffic and zoom 1 BEH)? In other words, should either pic have anything besides the road or rail built?
Like it says above in the challenge, you need to do the challenge first, meaning building the roads/strees/rails and then take the pictures. What you do afterwards in one of the tiles B, E or H is up to you. You' re not forced to build anything at all, besides the roads/streets and rails. Only if you wish to start building something, you may, but
ONLY after your Challenge mission is posted in Your Challenge 1 thread. We don't want anything else on your pictures than the roads/streets and rails.
jmyers2043, it says in the Challenge that you may run your highway through any tiles, wether it is
B, E or H. You decide which one, but you have no choice to choose one (or several) of those to get to the tile
M, now don't you? I am not limiting you to go through tile
B, you can choose tile
E if you want to tile
H, or even tile
E and H. Up to you.
That is why I chose one of these choices to be seen on a closer view, to see if you're good in planning or not. ;) hint
BarbyW, thanks for helping....ouffff.....I think I have to rewrite all the other challenges to really make sure that they are all well understood. I am not that good explaining things in a simple way, especially in english.
XiahouDun, as it says in the challenge, you
must connect the road or rails to the neighboring region. It doesn't matter on which side, as long as they are connected in tile
A and
M.
soulchaser, Sorry for not being precise there, it has been corrected now. I meant that you should show it in
YOUR Challenge 1 thread, that you will open under
your board and name *Soulchaser-Challenge 1*, or something similar.
wouanagaine, it doesn't matter if or if not the rails are on the same tiles as the roads/streets, that is up to you. Just try your best to make it a logical position.
I would like to add something here.
IMPORTANTI said in the challenge that you may get a Bonus Point for explaining why you choose the route of your road/street and rail. We will allow you to add one (1) more picture to your update explaining us how and why you decided to run the roads/streets and rails your way. This picture can be a simple plan on paper, diapositive, a newspaper clip, a video, a blueprint, a topographical image, a picture from the game heavily photoshopped or anything else,
no restrictions at all!
mrb
we can use FAR and FARR???
Quote from: jjune4991 on March 16, 2009, 04:04:13 PM
we can use FAR and FARR???
I feel stupid, but what is FAR or FARR?
They are a new addition to NAM and have a variety of curved road and rail pieces. You will see them in my tile A picture tomorrow.
FAR and FARR stand for Fractional Angle Roads and Fractional Angle Railroads. They are 18.7 degrees off of regular roads. They come with the January 2009 and March 2009 Versions of the NAM. You can see many examples in the Three Rivers Region (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=159.0).
(x-post w/ BarbyW)
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 04:09:02 PM
I feel stupid, but what is FAR or FARR?
don't feel stupid. i just downloaded them last week!! and barbyw and splime explained it. they came in the newest NAM!!!
Well hey, I already have them with the latest NAM, still figuring out why they have a different texture on diagonals than my rails and how to fix this. But I didn't know what they were called. I feel better now, knowing what FAR is... ;)
Thanks for the info.
mrb
yea!!! it has a different texture than my rails too! maybe i wont use it just yet then...find a skin for them or something.
If I use the new NAM rural road textures for my road will I be able to "restripe" them as a normal road later on when I develop around them?
Quote from: jjune4991 on March 16, 2009, 07:03:53 PM
yea!!! it has a different texture than my rails too! maybe i wont use it just yet then...find a skin for them or something.
When you install the new NAM, there should be a setting where you select your rail textures. I'm pretty sure you want Andreas' darker rail textures. (They can also be found in the SFBT Rail Mod.)
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 02:36:08 PM
XiahouDun, as it says in the challenge, you must connect the road or rails to the neighboring region. It doesn't matter on which side, as long as they are connected in tile A and M.
My apologies. I read that to mean neighboring cities since I am used to it being called SimNation.
XiahouDun, neighbor = simnation, now that I know that you use the word simnation here, I will try not to forget. Sorry for not being more precise. I should have said Neighboring Region and Neighboring City.
Splime, thanks for the info, got Andreas' textures, everything looks good now.
The_Hutt, Yeah, I forgot about those SAM (Nam rural roads) and RHM (rural Highway) textures not showing up in regionview. Yes ,you are allowed to do redraw your lines with paint etc as long as you use the same color, so that we don't get mixed up, and please mention it when doing it. Thanks.
mrb
One question of clarification... The challenge asks for roads and rails (and DOES say "only") but what about transit related buildings (for example, toll booths and/or ferry crossings)? Are these acceptable in the challenge, as ferry crossings (and the appropriate tolls to USE the ferry :thumbsup:) is certainly one way that the river may be crossed...
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 09:23:20 PMThe_Hutt, Yeah, I forgot about those SAM (Nam rural roads) and RHM (rural Highway) textures not showing up in regionview. Yes ,you are allowed to do redraw your lines with paint etc as long as you use the same color, so that we don't get mixed up, and please mention it when doing it. Thanks.
mrb
I'm not sure you understood my question. I'm not talking about region view, I'm talking about literally repaving the road in the game. For example:
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If I have "A" now, could I simply repave it with "B" later on? There's no functional difference between the two, the centerline striping is just slightly different.
---
Also, I have a second question: is this too much terraforming? Or is this acceptable because it is for a bridge lead-up? I'm erring on the side of the latter but would like to play it safe by asking you.
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Thanks.
Quotei just downloaded them last week!!
Ha! I downloaded the 2009 NAM this past Sunday (a mere 3 days ago). I previously had the 2007 NAM or perhaps something earlier. I am having a ball using the newer, gentler, curves for route 10 and the railways too. Hope I am not causing myself some later city building problems. ::)
CabraBuitre, like it says in the Challenge : Roads/Streets, rails ONLY. A ferry is NOT a road/street/rail. There is a reason for this (will be explained later when the challenge has ended). Ferries can be build later at your guise, so can the tollbooths.
Right now we are asking a simple way to get sims through that region either by roads/streets or by rails. Good luck.
The_Hutt, sorry for having misunderstood your question. Yes, redoing your roads will be allowed as you showed on the picture. No problem there.
Now for the rails, as it says in the Rule Section, Yes you are allowed to slightly terraform the terrain for better road/rail construction, also smoothing out riverbanks for seawalls constructions. And what you showed on the pictures is no problem to us, since in real life this is seen quite often, therefore it is not considered as terraforming for our judgements. Btw, that rail picture looks nice.
jmyers2043, geeez, what have you been doing without the 2009 NAM anyays?...lol. Great stuff that is.
mrb
Sorry Fred if I'm being a nuissance, but, as you said, to explain everything in English could be tricky. If the rail rules of this challenge are clear, the line has to start and end at neighbouring connections, the road rules don't, and my first impression is it has to start at tile A, and end at Tile M connecting to the neighbours, but clearly fails to indicate if the start has to be also a neighbouring connection or just a start somewhere on tile A. I can see Barb has done road and rails both starting and ending at the edges of the tiles (neighbour connection), but for example, I was starting my road in the middle of tile A.
Can you please let us know clearly where to start and end ther road/street network?
Cheers
Silvio
Silvio, both the road and the rail networks have to connect to the neighbouring region so you cannot start your road in the middle of tile A. It must start at one of the edges and continue through at least 4 tiles to end at the edge of tile M. The rail also has to connect to simnation and each end but as long as you go through 6 tiles the rest of the choice is yours. If you look at my region picture Fred asked for a zoom 1 of tile A as my connection for the rail is not visible so he needed to check there was one. Hope this makes it clearer.
Building on The_Hutt's question, is it legal to build Route 10 as a Maxis or SAM Street and upgrade it to a Road later, or build STR for the rail required in Challenge 1 and upgrade it to regular Rail later?
Quote from: metarvo on March 17, 2009, 09:15:41 AM
Building on The_Hutt's question, is it legal to build Route 10 as a Maxis or SAM Street and upgrade it to a Road later, or build STR for the rail required in Challenge 1 and upgrade it to regular Rail later?
To my knowledge, STR is not required in Challenge 1. When he says a single line he's not referring to the number of tracks, he referring to a single
route.
Quote from: The_Hutt on March 17, 2009, 09:32:42 AM
To my knowledge, STR is not required in Challenge 1. When he says a single line he's not referring to the number of tracks, he referring to a single route.
I'm sure he specified it must double track rail in the rules.
Rayden, BarbyW is right. It's not a nuisance btw to get informed properly....I will be clearer the next time with the challenges.
Now....Roads/streets have to be connected to the neighboring region (simnation as some call it) on either side of the citytile, and this on Tile A and Tile M only only. Plus you need to run the road/street through 4 more citytiles, meaning a total of 6 citytiles (with A and M), not 1 more, nor 1 less.
Then....Rails have to be connected just as the roads/streets to their neighboring region and run through a total of 6 citytiles, just as the roads/streets, BUT....they can start and stop anywhere on the map, in any citytile and are not defined to be in A or M only. That is up to you to decide. We wnat to see the most logical decisions on how you run your roads/streets and rails.
metarvo, as it says in the challenge, you can use SAM roads/streets for the construction of the road/street challenge. If you want to upgrade it to something later is to your liberty, but not before the picture for Challenge 1.
Presuming that STR is the single track railroad, No, it is not allowed and I am sorry for not having mentioned it before. It says in the challenge that we want to see rails only, we meant , like The_Hutt and mightygoose said so well, only the original Maxis rails using as a single route.
Good luck
mrb ;)
After Challenge 1, will Single Track Rail be allowed for branches off of the main line?
I'm sorry to bother you again, but...
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 17, 2009, 10:04:22 AM
only the original Maxis rails using as a single route.
...does this mean no FARR or wide curves for rails, either? Also, what about FAR and wide curves for roads, or wide curves for SAM streets?
Quote from: metarvo on March 17, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
I'm sorry to bother you again, but...
...does this mean no FARR or wide curves for rails, either? Also, what about FAR and wide curves for roads, or wide curves for SAM streets?
Well FARR & FAR are still the standard maxis network type so are allowed. STR is a non standard type and is not allowed. just follow the logic.
Quote from: Splime on March 17, 2009, 10:12:14 AM
After Challenge 1, will Single Track Rail be allowed for branches off of the main line?
I would assume so as you have free reign once the challenge pics are uploaded.
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 17, 2009, 10:04:22 AM
Rayden, BarbyW is right. It's not a nuisance btw to get informed properly....I will be clearer the next time with the challenges.
Now....Roads/streets have to be connected to the neighboring region (simnation as some call it) on either side of the citytile, and this on Tile A and Tile M only only. Plus you need to run the road/street through 4 more citytiles, meaning a total of 6 citytiles (with A and M), not 1 more, nor 1 less.
Then....Rails have to be connected just as the roads/streets to their neighboring region and run through a total of 6 citytiles, just as the roads/streets, BUT....they can start and stop anywhere on the map, in any citytile and are not defined to be in A or M only. That is up to you to decide. We wnat to see the most logical decisions on how you run your roads/streets and rails.
metarvo, as it says in the challenge, you can use SAM roads/streets for the construction of the road/street challenge. If you want to upgrade it to something later is to your liberty, but not before the picture for Challenge 1.
Presuming that STR is the single track railroad, No, it is not allowed and I am sorry for not having mentioned it before. It says in the challenge that we want to see rails only, we meant , like The_Hutt and mightygoose said so well, only the original Maxis rails using as a single route.
Good luck
mrb ;)
It seems I made a Fubar then, I interpreted the rules to mean at least six tiles, obviously i didn't read them correctly. my mistake, checking back, it seems I did only use six tiles for each, bonus, ignore this last part.
MG
Quote from: BarbyW on March 17, 2009, 08:01:22 AMIf you look at my region picture Fred asked for a zoom 1 of tile A as my connection for the rail is not visible so he needed to check there was one. Hope this makes it clearer.
That's because I've seen your pictures, I wasn't sure if I had read the rules clearly or not. ;)
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 07:50:49 AM
1. 1 Picture in Regionview under trafficview with your roads/streets and rails clearly showing (no paintjob/photoshop)
Quick question... when you say no photoshop, I would like to add a border and a logo to all pics, is this OK?
Quote from: Diggis on March 17, 2009, 01:07:06 PM
Quick question... when you say no photoshop, I would like to add a border and a logo to all pics, is this OK?
Seeing that others ( Mightygoose ) made such border and Fred didn't complain, I think it is ok
the no photoshop in that case means no adding bits to the content of the image, like cars that aren't there, changing road textures, smoothing road curves, etc. generic presentation elements, borders, filters, labels etc are allowed.
Splime , Yes, after the first challenge, you can build whatever you want, except the things mentioned in the Rules that are not supposed to be build without permissions (highways, harbors, airports, etc)
metarvo, wide curves with double Maxis rails are allowed, but not the single tracked rails. I have to check what FAR and FARR actually is first to give an answer on this.
Wide curves for roads/streets, incl. SAM are also allowed, they are considered as roads and streets.
Can someone please explain me roughly and quickly what FARR and FAR is? I can't find much about it and I don't have time to read a 40 page thread to see what it exactly is. Thanks.
Diggis, Please go back to page 1 of this thread, everything is well explained there, with pictures (about halfway down the page) Yes, logo and frames are allowed.
mightygoose and wouanagaine, thanks for helping out. Appreciated.
mrb
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 17, 2009, 04:40:21 PMCan someone please explain me roughly and quickly what FARR and FAR is? I can't find much about it and I don't have time to read a 40 page thread to see what it exactly is. Thanks.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F4958%2Fteaser08110601rk1.jpg&hash=504a36084a49b82dc381230d2b819f8f24f52322)
This picture, taken from the 3RR (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg196680#msg196680), shows a switch between the regular rail (bottom) and FARR (top). The FARR isn't quite diagonal, but it definitely isn't orthogonal either. The FAR is just like this, except it's a road instead of a railroad.
Geeez, do you have a link for this to download please? That looks awsome!
Yes, these are allowed, because they are roads/streets and rails, as long as they look like the original ones (see the warning about intersections below). Sam is allowed in all its splender anyways.
Thanks Splime for the explanation, much appreciated.
WARNING: Using the "Y" sections of FARR or FARR though during the first Challenge is NOT allowed since it is seen as an intersection and which was clearly said in the Challenge 1 thread not to create : No Intersection of the road/street/rail. "$Deal"$
mrb
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 17, 2009, 05:27:01 PM
Geeez, do you have a link for this to download please? That looks awsome!
It's included in the latest NAM. The should be an icon in the Roads menu titled "FAR/Wide Radius Curves". (And of course one in the Rail menu for the FARR.)
Quote from: mrbisonm link=topic=7278.msg231378#msg231378 date=1237336021
color=red]WARNING: [/color] Using the "Y" sections of FARR or FARR though during the first Challenge is NOT allowed since it is seen as an intersection and which was clearly said in the Challenge 1 thread not to create : No Intersection of the road/street/rail. "$Deal"$
mrb
but the road and rail can intersect each other correct?
Quote from: jjune4991
but the road and rail can intersect each other correct?
/quote]
Roads can cross rails or vice versa, no problem. Intersections of roads alone and rails alone are not permitted.
mrb
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 17, 2009, 05:27:01 PM
WARNING: Using the "Y" sections of FARR or FARR though during the first Challenge is NOT allowed since it is seen as an intersection and which was clearly said in the Challenge 1 thread not to create : No Intersection of the road/street/rail.
mrb
You say in black that "you're not allowed to create no intersection" which means that not having an intersection is not allowed, and thus you'll have to have at least one intersection, although I'm pretty certain that you don't want us (well, the players, as I'm not in this round) to build an intersection. Could you please explain this?
Edit: Now the only thing in black is that what I meant, which still shows a double negative and as thus is positive in that you have to build an intersection between road x road/ rail x rail, as that is what should be forbidden, but isn't if you read this statement properly.
Quote from: Korot on March 18, 2009, 10:32:27 AM
You say in black that "you're not allowed to create no intersection" which means that not having an intersection is not allowed, and thus you'll have to have at least one intersection, although I'm pretty certain that you don't want us (well, the players, as I'm not in this round) to build an intersection. Could you please explain this?
I don't see any discrepancy on the text, the "NOT" clearly refers to first sentence of the phrase which should have a coma after the allowed, but it doesn't get associated to the "not to create" sentence. It is associated to the "Y" sections of FAR or FARR.
^^ he messed up. he means that we are not allowed to have intersections between roads or rails. but we are allowed to have the road and rail intersect each other. one straight shot of rail, one straight shot of road.
eeks OK I am sooo confused now... After missing the Monday start of the first challenge and even though Ive been reading all the long about the first challenge I am soo confused, heeelp!!!
OK what I am wondering about is that we have to start in A and end in M right? We have to go threw 6 tiles to make Route 10 and we have to go threw either B E or H? Could we go threw all 3 of them or does it have to be just 1 and 1 only?
The only reason you have to go through B, E, or H is that its impossible to not go through them on the way from A to M (unless you pretend the road leaves the region and comes back, which isn't allowed.) You can go through all three of B, E, and H if you really want to. (In fact, that's what I did, and so did a few others.)
Thank you splime that is what I was wondering as since i didnt check out anyone elses yet as I felt that would be cheating on my behalf lol.... I kinda was thinking going threw all 3 as the way to go but then I saw someone saying only go threw 1... That is why I gotten confussed... But now I know and again thank you splime :thumbsup:
You think you're confused? If you all continue like this I will be confused.......lol ()what() %confuso
Intersections of a road and a rail is allowed. I don't call this *intersections* though, these are crossings.
You are not allowed to have a road turn or separate into two directions. The road must go through the region in one draw only (no turnoffs or roadintersections)without turning off here and there, but is allowed to be crossed by the rails up to a thousand times (if you want to and if you can) The same for the rail.
ouffffffff....that was hard to explain, hope it is. ???
Now, I wanted a picture from either tile B, E or H because somewhere down the road you just have to go through one of them, right? So, where you crossed these, I want a picture of it. You can go through all three of them and I only want to see one picture of these three, but I want a picture of one of those three with a road.
I really have to re-write all my challenges now so misunderstandings don't happen anymore. /wrrd%&.....lol
jeez i thought it was pretty simple to understand the first time....
I am sorry there Fred!!! I hope my question wasnt to much??? It for a change wasnt about intersections as I knew the answer was a NO
Well John I thought at first it was understandable but then everyone kept asking something and trying to read to make sure I dont say something dumb lol.... I just gotten thrown off and I wanted to make sure I was right on with my thinking...
Quote from: Pat on March 18, 2009, 06:39:48 PM
I am sorry there Fred!!! I hope my question wasnt to much??? It for a change wasnt about intersections as I knew the answer was a NO
Well John I thought at first it was understandable but then everyone kept asking something and trying to read to make sure I dont say something dumb lol.... I just gotten thrown off and I wanted to make sure I was right on with my thinking...
I thought I had made it simple too in the beginning, but as you said
Pat, when everyone started asking questions, there was a moment even I was in doubt.....lol. Don't worry about asking questions, I am here to answer them and please don't be sorry to do so please. I just find it funny how things sometimes turn out or become. It proofs the theory of the most simple things sometimes can become the most challenging.
;)
mrb
Two questions:
1. Am I allowed to use a RHW-4 for Route 10? (I'm a bit of a highway freak, so the first route in the region is a inter-regional main route) Should have read the rules first!
2. Is it allowed to make intersections (or exits) on the route and the railway after Challenge 1 ends?
Best,
Maarten
Quote from: mrtnrln on March 20, 2009, 07:00:33 AM
Two questions:
1. Am I allowed to use a RHW-4 for Route 10? (I'm a bit of a highway freak, so the first route in the region is a inter-regional main route)
From what I heard, no. Any HW is not allowed.
2. Is it allowed to make intersections (or exits) on the route and the railway after Challenge 1 ends?
From what I have understood yes, but only on one of this tiles B, E or H, and only after your challenge has been acknowledged by MrB
Best,
Maarten
But MrB will certanly clear that for you. ;)
Quote from: mrtnrln on March 20, 2009, 07:00:33 AM
Two questions:
1. Am I allowed to use a RHW-4 for Route 10? (I'm a bit of a highway freak, so the first route in the region is a inter-regional main route) Should have read the rules first!
No
2. Is it allowed to make intersections (or exits) on the route and the railway after Challenge 1 ends?
Rayden is right on, after the challenge only, you may play and do whatever you 'd like to do
in either tiles B,E or H (one tile only), ............BUT, always respect the rules, no highway!
Best,
Maarten
Fred
Any positive or negative comments how you have liked the experience of the first challenge yet? Building a road and rails through a wild region is not as easy as you thought, right?
No, Fred, especially as we don't know what you have up your sleeve in the way of future challenges.
I liked this idea of road and rail into an empty region. It did make me think about what I might do with future development.
Quote from: BarbyW on March 20, 2009, 08:04:51 AM
No, Fred, especially as we don't know what you have up your sleeve in the way of future challenges.
I liked this idea of road and rail into an empty region. It did make me think about what I might do with future development.
Like Barb said, it's not just laying down the road/rail, you'll have to plan ahead, specially taking into account what may come from your side. I'm sure you'll not make our work any easy $%Grinno$%
So far, I'm enjoying this a lot, specially because there is so much skilled people involved, which makes things more interesting, nothing better than a little competition among us. ()testing() :discuss: $%Grinno$%
I didn't find it hard per se. But it make me think which is something I don't usually do :o
Rail usually brought raw materials to the city centers. Coal at point A. Get it to point B with little or no fuss. The purchase right of way is a secondary consideration to topographical ones. Do I plan a rail so the workers have to bore a tunnel through a mountain or hill or do I around it? Long expansive bridge across the widest part of a river?. Or take advantage of a geographical helper such as an island? What would the early rail road planners have done? That was fun. Whimsy - realism - which to choose. Hmmm.
Roads on the other hand support and sustain existing communities. Build a road and they will come? No, first they come then the highways. How did I deal with challenge 1? I first built the town in my minds eye then attempted to place the future route 10 as the main street of my minds eye. That was the tough and a different thing to do.
A positive experience you wish to know? First I get a chance to play the game the way it supposed to be played. Not the competition per se as much as I'll try to stretch myself creatively. There are a number of good CJ'ers here. Second, this is a different experience because I usually merely zone for a community in the middle of my large city and move outward with little or no thought. If I don't like what I see I merely pull rank on the city planner. Wave my mayoral zoning wand around wildly and – poof – countryside, roads, and rails all vanish in favor of my new design. I suspect that I that I've already 'painted myself into a corner' depending on the challenges to come. I can't wait to see if I'll be able to paint myself out.
Regular Rails, is STR allowed? Because where I grew up, the main lines are STR with a few sidings for passing trains...
I think Fred has already said that for the initial rail route it must be regular rails. Once this is done I imagine he will allow STR as you develop your region.
Kitsune, like BarbyW said, only regular rails are allowed and/or all the ploppables pieces that look like the original Maxis ones. If you live in Canada like your flag says, make it look like the CN or CP rails out in the countryside. (double rail only)
Good luck
mrb
Once we complete Challenge 1 can we only develop either tile B, E, or H, or can we develop more than one of those tiles?
Quote from: RustyXL on March 21, 2009, 02:52:25 PM
Once we complete Challenge 1 can we only develop either tile B, E, or H, or can we develop more than one of those tiles?
Only one of them. "$Deal"$
Another question: am I allowed to build RHW-2? The rules say that it's not allowed to build any highways, but I don't count a RHW-2 as a highway, but as a provincial road, at the most.
Quote from: mrtnrln on March 22, 2009, 03:17:06 AM
Another question: am I allowed to build RHW-2? The rules say that it's not allowed to build any highways, but I don't count a RHW-2 as a highway, but as a provincial road, at the most.
No. RHW-2 is still a highway for GRV-II.
I'm sure this has been asked before, and the answer was no. Fred may choose to explain it in more detail.
Like it says in the rules. anything that can be transformed easily into a highway is NOT allowed to build, such as RHW, twin roads, Boulevards in smaller towns or in the country.
The reason for this is simple, we would like to *see* your headaches when we get to the matter of building a highway in your already developped cities or countrysides. This is to test your talent as a mayor of the higher standards.
If you already have a RHW (for example) it will be easy for you to just bulldoze and re-plop a hgwy, right?
Good luck.
Thanks to all the folks that help me out answering questions.
Fred
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 22, 2009, 06:56:30 AM
If you already have a RHW (for example) it will be easy for you to just bulldoze and re-plop a hgwy, right?
Actually I don't think there is need to buldoze, it's just a matter of building another one next to it an it becames a 4 lane RHW.;)
Mr B, RHW 2 is a single tile network like the road. I think that is why people are getting confused as it is intended for the purpose you are asking us to do. ;)
Are we allowed to build spur lines to another tile? Lets say the main line runs in Tile E, and I'm developing Tile B, would I be allowed to run a spur line to Tile B?
Kitsune, you will be able to build spurs eventually but not until you can actually build in another tile. At the moment you can't make any connections off the main line apart from in one tile that you can develop - B, E or H. If you are developing B then you cannot yet connect from E.
Quote from: Diggis on March 22, 2009, 07:23:20 AM
Mr B, RHW 2 is a single tile network like the road. I think that is why people are getting confused as it is intended for the purpose you are asking us to do. ;)
I don't use
RHW because I never figured out how to plop these things and make them connect to other roads etc and make them look good.... Anyways.
RHW is as the name says (
Rural Highway) in our opinion a highway and therefore will not be permitted to construct for the moment being unless demanded. That also goes for the Boulevard that is constructed in a small village or out in the country, where it makes no sense. You can build the Blvd though once you have a fair-sized town/city which irl could support such a road.
Kitsune, just like
BarbyW said.
;)
Fred
Edit:
I would like to add, while I have seen some players not yet posted their challenge 1 pictures, that the Deadline of the Challenge is Wednesday March 25th, Midnight Eastern time (NY time) and not a minute later. Those who have not contacted me before nor posted their challenge will NOT get any points for the first Challenge. Sorry.Thank you
Fred and Lynn
Please be advised:
24 hours left until shutdown!
mrb
Challenge 1 is now closed!
Those who have not posted their challenge will get 0 Points in their score this time.(I guess you have some catching up to do)
Although the Challenge seemed to be very easy, it wasn't. There was some kind of a problem. The Budget.
The gouvernor gave you the budget, but wanted to see if you were a responsable mayor after all and spend the less for the best as most Mayors always do or at least "should" do. And this to see if you're worthy to continue to build up the wilderness of the river.
Fortunetly and generally all have done quite a fair job in creating the best route through Bordertown, but some of you were a little egoistic about the way roads and rails were laid, making sure that they will be for their advantage and without bother for the Governor's money they have spent.
Here are some facts: Bridges are expensive, sometimes we have no choice but they are expensive and tunnels are even worse and can be replaced by dozens of miles or km's for the same price. Then building a road over a tophill is not a good idea either, because again, the expenses will rise when the terrain rises.
We wanted you to build a road and a rail through your whole region and through 6 citytiles. That's what you all did. There were dozens of possibilities and many good and very good ones. More than half have chosen the lesser good ones, again thinking of their possible convenience and not the budget.
Anyways, I have asked two professionals (some friends I have) in this matter for their opinion and funny, they came up with a similar route for both the roads and rails. The minimum bridges to be forced to build was two, there was no other way around.
I took wouanagaine's map as an example to trace the ideal route through the region that my two friends proposed.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg264.imageshack.us%2Fimg264%2F9986%2Flogicalplangrvii.jpg&hash=21efb343472ed327a73924ffb6cb9cd6977f9de5)
Having carefully studied all the mayor's maps individually and with the budget and also the shortest way in mind, we have finally made up our minds, and still are in process to do so. It wasn't easy at all. But we can say already, generally speaking, the average is quite good and no worst nor best have been chosen.
We will now finish all the entries and slowly show the results in each Player's Challenge 1 Thread. Keep an eye on them. They will not be uploaded all at the same time, but one by one when we find the time.
I will also upload my challenge 1 and you may judge me in the same way, and don't worry, mine was done before the Challenge 1 was published and way before my professional friends gave me their idea.
Everyone can judge my entry, Players, Lurkers and Visitors, but judge me fairly concentrating on the shortest way possible, budget and for the practical use to the region. Judge it in my Challenge 1 thread and give it points according to how and what it says in the Pointage-sheet thread, from 0 to 5 points. Plus have a short look at the points we gave to our players might help you judge mine. And don't worry I won't search revenge in the next challenge... ;)
You have until Monday to do so, when I will announce the total points in the Pointage-sheet Thread. I will count all entries and divide them by the judgements to get the final points of my Challenge 1.
Hope you all had fun as much as we did,
Lynn and Fred
Heh, I knew that tunnel wasn't a great idea...
Actually, it still was in my opinion, only because I wanted to have one... :) Regardless, that sounds like good criteria to use.
Pleas read this in the Pointagesheet also:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7315.0
;)
I think your points concerning budget are, for the most part, exceptionally valid. As a rule, it is always more expensive to build through mountainous regions, etc.
However, one little detail I do take issue with is your penalizing the use of the three-bridge crossing by deeming it "more expensive," especially since I operated under the impression that this was the cheapest available river crossing option in the "E" tile. Allow me to clarify.
I think you're really oversimplifying the actual expense involved in constructing bridges. There's a couple ways to quantify the cost it takes to construct a bridge. The first and most obvious factor is its length. Longer bridges require larger capital material costs and thus are more expensive; vice versa for short bridges. Your penalization of three bridges ignores this fact; instead of treating each bridge's cost as a function of length, you've seemed to have attached a rough lump-sum value to each individual bridge, no matter what the length is, with a small reward for using narrower river crossings. However, a series of short bridges whose aggregate length is no larger than the length of a single long bridge should have approximately equal construction and maintenance costs - and that's before considering my next contention.
A second factor is river depth. Barring the use of a suspension bridge design with pylons on each end, the deeper the river is at any particular point, the more expensive it becomes to construct a conventional bridge at that location. A series of shorter bridges can take advantage of the naturally shallow depths surrounding the islands, substantially reducing costs. On the other hand, a bridge making a long river crossing must have exceptionally deep pillars for support, creating construction obstacles as well as potential seismological and weather concerns which much be dealt with.
Consider this scenario - there are two different bridges, the first being 13 units in length and crossing a slightly narrower width of river than the second, which is located on a wider portion of the river, but utilizes tho natural islands to reduce the length of the three shorter bridges of an aggregate 12 units in length.
!!!!! !!!!!
!!!!! !!!!!
!!!!! !!!!!
!!!!!-------------!!!!! (13 units)
!!!!! bridges !!!!!
!!!!!---!!----!!!!----!!!!! (12 units)
!!!!! !!!!!
!!!!! River !!!!!
!!!!! !!!!!
Not only is the series of shorter bridges actually shorter in total length, but it avoids the pitfalls of contending with deep waters. I would argue that this represents a substantial cost savings - not an expense.
Feel free to disagree - but that's just my two cents.
is it me or is the professionals road invalid, it doesn't start in tile A....
also any engineer will tell you it is cheaper to build on land than water and three bridges are most definitely cheaper than one longer one, less maximum available load, therefore less expensive materials can be used to construct the bridges...
As for good mayoring. where is you mention of network reach.... the road had to go from A to M, implying it was obviously built first, by giving the option of multiple end/start points for the rail an attempt to maximise region coverage should have been made, to save on overall network length at a later date.
Example, I as of challenge one had a infrastructure that reached 9 tiles, whereas some people only reached 6, thats half you region uncatered for by road and rail. a longer initial rout may have been more expensive at stage one, but by stage three the tables turn as much less extension of the main arteries is required to service the remainder of the region. I heavily factored this in my choosing of a rail route and I am sure other people did to. You did say think like a mayor, NOT think like a banker....
edit- also were bridge heights considered to gauge access to the upper part of the river...
Another good reason to cross the river with three bridges in tile E: It's a good connection for future development on the islands. You can easily build some zones on the river isles and connect them with the main road. If you didn't build a bridge there, but still want to develop the area on the isles, you have to build more bridges (still expensive, and it's not subsidied by the gouvernment. 'Een dure grap', as I say it in dutch) or creating a ferry line, which is in my point of view not so very efficient.
Best,
Maarten
I'm going to have to agree with mightygoose that the ideal road as shown in the pic does not start on Tile A. You may have to take away some points from those professionals, Fred. $%Grinno$% I can see how the third bridge could have been avoided, though. If Route 10 had entered Tile A from the west and then made a turn to the south, it could pick up the ideal route outlined by the professionals and then continue. The problem is that it would then go through one additional tile, but this actually corrects a problem as it looks as though it went through only five tiles anyway in the pic. Okay, I see that it's edited. Good job. :)
I am sorry about the starting point of the road in the picture not being in tile A, that was my fault. I have missed the line. Sorry.
We both have been working 5 hours in line yesterday only to get the points, pictures etc sorting and when you're tired, mistakes like this happen. I made the line a little too fast.
I knew that the three bridges on these islands were bringing us arguments, and I understand clearly your opinion and facts. There is one thing you have to consider though. It is the basic supporting foundations (on each riverbanks) that cost the most in doing bridges and (not the ones in the river, deep or not), whether they are long or short. On one bridge you only have 2 of them while on 3 bridges you'll have 6. And it is not the length either because you had many shorter stretches over the river in other tiles to build a bridge.
It was told to me that each additional bridge you build is at least 15 % more of the total cost. That means if you build one bridge of 1000$ (just an example) it will cost you 1300$ minimum to build two at the same place (15%+15%=30%, if my math is still correct)......hm, and that comes from one of the biggest road construction leader's mouth in the city of Quebec. Maybe it can be argued, but hey, I am a loghome-designer and not a bridgebuilder and a specialist and therefor cannot help you more. I listened to what he said about bridge building and put it into countable points of the challenge.
You were not "penalized" for the building multiple bridges. You would've maybe gotten one more point if you would have chosen a better or shorter location with lesser bridges.
Your opinions are respected and we did our best to judge these challenges to the best of our knowledge. If I don't know too much how things in the mayoring and construction world works, I ask others that I know of that specific trade for these challenges to get more competant help. Hope you understand.
Lynn and Fred
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 25, 2009, 09:09:20 PM
Although the Challenge seemed to be very easy, it wasn't. There was some kind of a problem. The Budget.
The gouvernor gave you the budget, but wanted to see if you were a responsable mayor after all and spend the less for the best as most Mayors always do or at least "should" do. And this to see if you're worthy to continue to build up the wilderness of the river.
Ummm, not to be picky, as I'm really not overly concerned and it is just a game, but there is no mention of a budget in the challenge. You did mention you would be financing it so we couldn't change it later so I designed to how I wanted it, as suggested by you.
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 16, 2009, 07:50:49 AM
Put it this way: Since the Governor (me) asks the mayors to build it and also finance it (allowing you a money cheat), these roads/streets and rails will stay federal/national property. That means you have to live with them once placed and shown in your update and only, only the goverment's office (lynn and me) can give you permits to change their route or diplace them in the future.[/color]
Marking me down for this is a little harsh don't you think? :P If you had of let me submit plans for comment I would have Value Engineered (Don't you just love that term :D) it to suit. ;)
Possibly some indication of what criteria you are marking this on in the future (ie telling us before hand that the budget will be considered) may give us a better indication of what you are looking for.
though not really concerned i would have to agree with others. I would just like to add that an island always exists because it has withstood the force of the water washing around it. Islands almost always represent the most stable part of a river for this reason. Also from a construction and planning point of view many small spans require far less in planning and development since all the engineering required is already provided in manuals and textbooks, much the same as a building code reduces the need for an architect's design or a engineer to design a joist or footer. It's all textbook that way. Also any look at history will show you that island hoping has always been the most efficient and preferred way to circumvent a water barrier..
anyways just my thoughts..
Bud
Quote from: buddybud on March 26, 2009, 12:30:40 PM
Also any look at history will show you that island hoping has always been the most efficient and preferred way to circumvent a water barrier.
History ...yes, no doubt, since they did not yet know how to make longer spans of bridges, and that's a fact. Today it is done differently with some exceptions.
You have a good point and also a good explanation of some facts, it is understood and accepted, but we don't to argue here about proper bridgebuilding, now don't we.
This is supposed to be a simple game, something that I and my wife have taken several weeks to figure out how to do, so You might have some fun with it. We told you in the beginning that we will do our best to judge this challenge, but we cannot be pros in every Mayoring issue. Also we told you that this was to be fun, fun and only fun and nothing else than fun and fun, right?
Some arguments seem to become a little too serious, such as I have mentioned that it should not become this way. This is NOT a competition to see who has the right reason or not, or who knows best or not, or who will be the winner or not or who is the best Mayor or not. Please understand this.
We have spent hours and hours to set this up, not to mention to organize and analyze everything and everybody's challenge.
We are NOT here to judge YOU or what you have created or what is logical or not and real or not, we judge what you did with our challenge and make our best by doing so with our knowledge and logical sense for you to earn points and have fun at the same time.
I have problems expressing myself since english is only my fourth language spoken and written, but I honestly hope you understand what I mean. If someone thinks that we are not justified with our judgements is quite alright and understandable, also it was nice to mention it, and we respect that, but don't let it become too serious please, otherwise we will loose the sense of "having fun" with this.
You know, I would like to see you in our shoes at this moment right now....lol. One says this , the other that.....we don't want to please anyone by giving him/her reason, but having simply some pure fun. We judged to our best knowledge and that's the best we could do. Thank you.
I wrote this for the simple reason because my wife saw one comment she thought it would become to serious, and that's exactly she told me that it would happen in the beginning when I asked her to join and help me with this second GRV challenge.
Anyways, we'll try to better with the second round. %wrd
Fred
Fred,
To be honest, as long as everyone is judged evenly, it doesn't really matter does it. :P I don't think anyone expects you to change their scores, but maybe are trying to get an insight into your thoughts to help next time round.
Quote from: mightygoose on March 26, 2009, 02:41:00 AM
is it me or is the professionals road invalid, it doesn't start in tile A....
It starts in A, unless we are looking at completely different images ???
I don't get the complaints sadly. Its just for fun. I scored low on the two things I worked the hardest on, and I still like how they turned out ;D
yes, fred you're right.
It's all fun, the discussion, too. I wouldn't take this too serious.
Nobody invested in this competition much more than time, so nobody is loosing anything.
I love to read, why everybody built it his/her way.
The judgement is fair.
I love it, not to know what the points will be for...that's what i miss on the game: Random change, I can't controll. That's why I participated.
I've thrown my piece in.
hey i wasn't argueing...i've had fun starting the first city i've built in atleast 5 years or so....for that i have you to thank for. Just adding thoughts and input. Nothing was meant as argumentative...it's simply discussion.
Cheers Bud
Quote from: Diggis on March 26, 2009, 01:26:01 PM
Fred,
To be honest, as long as everyone is judged evenly, it doesn't really matter does it. :P I don't think anyone expects you to change their scores, but maybe are trying to get an insight into your thoughts to help next time round.
I completely agree with Shaun on that point, and I made a complete explanation [
linkie (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7287.msg233915#msg233915)] of the reasons I had to build the only thing the Governor didn't like, the road tunnels, and now, that I know the budget issue, I still would make things the way I did. But the only intention I had was to fully explain my point of view on the tunnel issue and I fully accept the points awarded because points of view can differ from one to another. ;)
As an unbiased observer this is really interesting. I love that over 2/3rds of the players chose similar routes. I decided to play along but only off the record stuff. And low and behold I chose a very similar route. I wish now I had joined the Bordertown Challange. Looking foreward to seeing what the next challenge brings. And how I would (unofficially) tackle it.
---Gaston
For me? Reading through all the 'grades' given to each participant was a entertaining and worthwhile way to spend an hour in front of my computer this evening. I got some good chuckles reading the comments here in this thread. I think it is safe to say that we are a determined and motivated bunch who strive to put our best forward for all to see.
It's all good fun - actually I enjoy not knowing the minutiae of each and every detail prior to commencing.
Had Mrbisonm said "spend as little of my money as possible", the challenge would not have been as enjoyable to watch as the results amongst players would have been more closely aligned....
That's a good point, Matt. The fact that it's a learning experience for most of us and that we observe the different methods to our madness is what makes this really interesting. And it's cool that you're playing unofficially, Gaston. I'd be interested in seeing how you're doing on it from time to time as well.
Now we know.... [linkie] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKEUujz12S4&feature=related) sorry i didnt mean to leap down any throats, im happy, i was just voicing an opinion, i may have seemes abit arrogant in retrospect, cannot wait for challenge 2 :)
Quote from: quackmofro on March 26, 2009, 03:08:45 PM
That's a good point, Matt. The fact that it's a learning experience for most of us and that we observe the different methods to our madness is what makes this really interesting. And it's cool that you're playing unofficially, Gaston. I'd be interested in seeing how you're doing on it from time to time as well.
I see if I can take some pics this weekend and post um.
Quote from: mattb325 on March 26, 2009, 02:59:14 PM
Had Mrbisonm said "spend as little of my money as possible", the challenge would not have been as enjoyable to watch as the results amongst players would have been more closely aligned....
I agree wholeheartedly. I know I would have done things differently myself.
---Gaston
I guess that goes to show you what happens when I get money handed to me on a silver platter. ;D There's no such thing as a free lunch, right? Or a free street, road, rail, or bridge, for that matter. I remember hearing that there would be a little more freedom in GRV II than there was in GRV I, and it's safe to say that this increased freedom produced interesting results. I'm looking forward to Challenge 2. :)
I am glad that everyone understands my point and I promiss that we will judge everyone with the same basis. Sorry, I had to make that little speech earlier, but one little uncertain comment scared off Lynn a bit, telling that she doesn't want this to get too serious. And that scared me too, because alone I'm in big trouble to do all this.......lol.
Let me explain something about the budget. Yes I offered you the cheat mode, but I didn't want you to build a whole downtown transportation system out in the country. And yes, I said that there's no limit to the budget, but I thought that a responsable Mayor would still take care of it as if it was his dity. So I thought wrong. I guess irl it's all about spending money anyways. %confuso
So be warned today for ALL the next challenges, unless stated differently, when the Governor says "We have the budget", please don't exagerate because we'll get you again. Just be a Mayor, think as a mayor and play the mayor like you should and that'll do the trick.
Have fun now and get prepared for the next challenge (No 2) at midnight tonight (less than 5 hrs), because tomorrow I won't be home all day. Take your time and watch the budget, just be reasonable and don't exagerate. Questions will be answered tomorrow night only and it might be Lynn, if I have not returned or maybe have crashed with *Rusty Rover*....lol ;) (oh Lynn, you love it when I say this, don't ya).
I am soo confussed here eeeks..... :'(
Quote from: Pat on March 26, 2009, 08:04:10 PM
I am soo confussed here eeeks..... :'(
lol......what's up Pat? The thing is that I didn't mention to watch out for the budget, but then it would have too easy, so I thought, but then it was an error not to do so, or was it, because I thought every mayor would take care of it automatically, but most didn't ....and this got me into trouble.........
lol. It doesn't matter, we had fun yelling at each other.....well, maybe not , but it was fun....still confused?. Now I am!! &mmm
Gaston, that would be nice to see your unofficial version, but if possible before everyone got their *surprize points*.
I've gotta go and upload Challenge two now......Good luck.
Fred
I'd like to thank Fred and Lynn for creating the GRV Challenge – clearly they've already spent a great deal of their personal time on this, and it has only just begun.
I feel as though I've stumbled upon a valuable course in strategy and logic, and I'm most fortunate to have done so. As for winning, I've no doubt I'll be a winner – not by virtue of point count, but by learning practical approaches to planning which can be bent and shaped to my own playing style. And by having a lot of fun doing it.
This promises to be one of the most beneficial projects in the community, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to participate.
Definitely looking forward to the next installment...
Joan
Quote from: Jmouse on March 26, 2009, 09:04:01 PM
I'd like to thank Fred and Lynn for creating the GRV Challenge – clearly they've already spent a great deal of their personal time on this, and it has only just begun.
I feel as though I've stumbled upon a valuable course in strategy and logic, and I'm most fortunate to have done so. As for winning, I've no doubt I'll be a winner – not by virtue of point count, but by learning practical approaches to planning which can be bent and shaped to my own playing style. And by having a lot of fun doing it.
This promises to be one of the most beneficial projects in the community, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to participate.
Definitely looking forward to the next installment...
Joan
Joan I couldn't have said it better here and I thank you for more or less expressing what I feel as well!!! Fred and Lynn thank you sooo much for spending your time on GRV II Challenges!!! I know Ive learned a little more about planning and strategy and by the time this is done I would have gone threw a major learning curve!!!
Can't wait for Challenge II ;)
Patrick
Quote from: mrbisonm on March 26, 2009, 08:44:04 PM
Gaston, that would be nice to see your unofficial version, but if possible before everyone got their *surprize points*.
Fred
I'll try to post something tonight. Then on to challenge II. ;D
EDIT :
Okay here ya go. I didn't know where else to post um so feel free to move them if you need/want to.
Region view
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F5692%2Fchallenge1region.jpg&hash=d0e3c304b4944930b66c5f8f4d63b9f1ac577450)
Tile A
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F9999%2Fchallenge1a.jpg&hash=0fb718b8520feacf334253343c8e087156ade7e2)
I'm still trying different water mods. I'm trying for a somewhat Australian "bush" look for the flora and terrain mods. Somewhere there was a collection of Southern Hemisphere trees, not sure where they went but I can't find um. lol
See what I mean about following the same paths as alot of the official players. LMAO
---Gaston
Hi Gaston
Do you want to be judged non official for challenge 1 ? We can do this if You want us to, but I see already a expensive tunnel.
Nice terrain, looks a little like desert.
Lynn
Quote from: lynncanox on March 27, 2009, 10:43:13 PM
Hi Gaston
Do you want to be judged non official for challenge 1 ? We can do this if You want us to, but I see already a expensive tunnel.
Nice terrain, looks a little like desert.
Lynn
Sure I don't mind some "unofficial" judging. If ya'll have time for it. LOL And yeah , I realized I had made a few
less than perfect choices on my routes. I love the terrain too, but the water still needs work. There used to be a ton of water mods available out there, but I think they must have deleted the older stuff over at STEX and we are sorta limited here on the LEX. What I need is something with the same patterns but darker. I was thinking Barby might be able to open an "unofficial" forum for those that want to post "unofficial" pics of there "unofficial" Bordertowns. Of course that would be "unofficial.
"$Deal"$
---Gaston
Well, if there is anyone else playing GRV II unofficially, it would be a good idea to have another thread opened for them, if it is possible, and we might even judge or throw in our opinion if we can find the time in between the official ones. I don't see a problem there.
Are there more unofficial GRV II Players out there???
If so, come forward please.
Fred