The Prime Road Avenue (PRA) Project
I'm having an interesting idea in mind the last few days:
Currently, we have multiple-lane road network like the Maxis Highway, the Rural Highway and the avenue. But the problem is that I'm missing one network between the RHW and the Avenue, a road network that can do the same thing as an motorway, while it's technically not an motorway. So I'm proposing Prime Road Avenues (or PRA)
The idea is that the PRA are using the techniques of the RHW mod and the Rural Road mod at the same time. It's a completely puzzle piece network (just like the Rural Roads), based upon the standard avenue network. The network should also have exit and entrance ramps (just like the RHW). We could use the MIS ramps for these PRA interchanges (why would we create something that already exists?). Currently we have to use the RHW network as a workaround. Another idea is modular turning lanes for at-grade intersections, so people can easily choose the turning lane setup of the PRA.
You may think "what's the use of this network? We already have avenues, right?" Well, there are some situations where PRA's can be useful:
- Main routes in rural envoirments. The Maxis avenues look like they are only planned for city networks only. Example (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.111322,4.680208&spn=0.003683,0.01031&t=h&z=17)
- Main city routes. These routes only have intersections with other main city roads or intercity roads/motorways. Example (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.092105,4.330609&spn=0.001842,0.005155&t=h&z=18)
- Important non-motorway national routes, because the PRA can make interchanges like motorways. Example (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.105467,4.358198&spn=0.001842,0.005155&t=h&z=18)
- City rings. These roads have the same properties as the main city routes. The only difference is that it's layed out in a ring shape. Example (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.047951,4.512634&spn=0.059015,0.164967&z=13)
There are only a few problems:
- I have no experience in RULing and making puzzle pieces. Actually, I don't know how to make it functional. So someone has to learn me how to do that or doing it for me.
- I don't know which IID's I'm allowed to use. Otherwhise, I might get ID conflicts.
- I don't know if anyone else sees a future in this project. When not, this project can be dead from the beginning. So I do need support before this project can get off the ground.
I can make texures and T21 exemplars, so that shouldn't be a problem.
I would like to hear any opinions and thoughts about my proposal. All comments are welcome.
Best,
Maarten
I think this is a good idea!
It could be developed as a sort of Avenue SAM (or a AAM, Avenue addon mod).
Here in Britian we have many cases of this, not quite highway, more than ave.
I would definately like to see this developed!
I agree with carkid, this is definatly something I'd like to see developped. I'd love to help, but I have got no knowledge of anything whatsoever (except some basic lotting skills) and I'm willing to learn.
I'm the same as WC_EEND.
I wanna help, but I only really have lotting skills!
yeah i like this idea, i was making "rings" around my city. but RHW nor MHW nor AVE did just not look right.
i am looking forward to his one &apls &apls &apls
In Poland it's called "expressways". I think it could be made from RHW, just without collision-free intersections. ;)
I have lack of wide one lane roads with roadside (http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=50.8903381&lon=20.5263609&z=18&l=28&m=h&v=1). I know they are in RHW, but they have no wide curves.
But I don't know anything about making them so I'm sitting quietly ;)
This sounds like a good idea but would only connect to certain networks (like how maxis highways only connect to ave, owr, and rhw)?
I think you mean that you would like a RHW with proper functionality of any zones (including residential, business and industrial) next to a RHW. I would like that functionality as well.
Count me in! I would love to offer any assistance that I can. I have a little experience with textures , but given the right direction I think I could be helpful.
Jayson
As I understand it, the reason RHW does not have that functionality is, because it is based off the unfinished network maxis had left in the code. A version based on Ave's should work fine. This really would only need to be a texture over ride (like SAM). The problem is finding someone to do it :)
Quote from: kbieniu7 on June 24, 2009, 08:35:48 AM
In Poland it's called "expressways".
Yes, in California and other parts of the US West Coast, this is what expressways are as well, as opposed to freeways, which are like the Maxis highways. (Not to be confused with what are called expressways in much of the rest of the US, which are like Maxis highways. ???) This certainly would fill a gap in the Maxis transportation system.
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on June 24, 2009, 10:46:39 AM
As I understand it, the reason RHW does not have that functionality is, because it is based off the unfinished network maxis had left in the code. A version based on Ave's should work fine. This really would only need to be a texture over ride (like SAM). The problem is finding someone to do it :)
Isn't that why we keep Alex (Tarkus) around? :D
I kid.. I kid
first step would be to start the textures.....
any takers? ;D
Quote from: wes.janson on June 24, 2009, 11:10:22 AM
Isn't that why we keep Alex (Tarkus) around? :D
I hear that he's got an opening twelve years from next Monday... ;D
Quote from: choco on June 24, 2009, 11:15:27 AM
first step would be to start the textures.....
any takers? ;D
I said I could make textures for this mod (see top post)
Are you going for something like this?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F9%2F9f%2FHoutribdijk.jpg%2F800px-Houtribdijk.jpg&hash=f25f5e97e7e062be1fa26056d547165b0fe610ed)
I think that's the idea
This is what I meant "wide one lane roads with roadside" ;D
Maarten, this is a rather intriguing idea here. I've actually been planning to have a set of Avenue/MIS Ramp Interfaces as part of the RHW mod for awhile now as it is, too, so that part is easily taken care of. The number of pieces that would likely be involved shouldn't be too daunting.
The modularized turn lane idea is rather interesting as well . . . that's something I've been thinking about for some time. That sounds like a mod in and of itself, too.
I've got a lot of projects on my plate right now, but I'd be happy to help you out with learning RULs if you were interested, and could provide technical advice when needed.
Quote from: pilotdaryl on June 24, 2009, 09:14:38 AM
I think you mean that you would like a RHW with proper functionality of any zones (including residential, business and industrial) next to a RHW. I would like that functionality as well.
Actually, after some reports I got from Casper (
caspervg) and
metarvo awhile ago, I did a test awhile ago (which I had forgotten about until now) to get definitive findings on RHW zone functionality, as it was seeming that the blanket "no RCI" was probably not entirely accurate.
This pic demonstrates my findings with the RHW-4 rather nicely:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F7291%2Frhw062420091.jpg&hash=622e2f79efab64bfcb11034eefb6bd06f2beaa8b)
It seems that the "overridden" RHW networks can support Commercial and Industrial zoning, but not Residential. The RHW-2, however, does not support any zoning at all. A rather bizarre finding, and I haven't really been able to pinpoint why this phenomenon occurs, other than the fact that the RHW-2 isn't an override.
-Alex
Quote from: z on June 24, 2009, 11:21:10 AM
I hear that he's got an opening twelve years from next Monday... ;D
Better book it quick, 'twill probably be taken soon ;D
Tarkus, It remind me some screen made by Ennedi
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3573/rhwnoroadtransyesws1.jpg
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.msg105801#msg105801
I think the American version of what he's thinking of would be a US highway without paved shoulders - those are our main routes around here, if you ignore interstates. They are sometimes built to interstate standards with paved shoulders and offramps and whatnot, but often they have at-grade intersections and steeper slopes etc, and sometimes they're 4 lanes but sometimes 2 or 6 (with an occasional extra climbing lane on long uphill slopes for trucks)... I do agree that this would be a good idea.
It's great to see this new project here, Maarten. I think this is really something that we're all, including me, missing in the game. I'd be happy to help you on creating the Puzzle Pieces. If you like I can share all my knowledge about making Puzzle Pieces (in Dutch) with you. Just send me a PM if you're interested.
Also, should the "Prime Road" Avenues also be pathed for pedestrians? Maybe it's better to make all Puzzle Pieces with and without the paths for pedestrians because I think pedestrians aren't allowed to walk here (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.111322,4.680208&spn=0.003683,0.01031&t=h&z=17) on Rijksweg 11, but I think they are allowed to walk here (http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.105467,4.358198&spn=0.001842,0.005155&t=h&z=18) in Den Haag (The Hague) Wassenaar near the underpass under the N44 (here is even something typical Dutch, (red paved) bicycles lanes).
Well here in Ireland, pedestrians are allowed to walk on the equivilant of a prime road. I think pedestrians should be able to walk on the road.
I can probably help here on the puzzle piece and override end... We can have this be a RHW-style override but with the avenue without to much extra work.
(and for those of you who think that two tile network overrides are impossible, think again ;) )
Vince
I'm trying to clear some things up. The PRA is based upon the Maxis Avenues and will look pretty much the same as standard avenues, but there are visual and functional differences between the PRA and normal avenues:
- Unlike the Avenue and like Motorways, the PRA has no sidewalks (that's for the same reason why motorways have no sidewalks).
- The PRA will not be draggable, at least not in the first place. It's going to be a puzzle-piece based override of the Avenue network, just like the Rural Roads from dedgren. The only exceptions are the ramps, that are using MIS ramps.
- The PRA will have custom puzzle pieces for turning lanes and intersections, so you can create advanced turning lanes setup. How you do it, is all up to you. Lane setup and lane length are completly customizeable. That's an advantage of puzzle-piece-overrides in comparision with RUL override.
- The PRA will have A-ramps and B-ramps, and maybe C-ramps and D-ramps.
- Because it looks pretty much the same as a normal avenue, maybe there is no need for a transistion piece.
Well, it looks like I have enough support to start the project. I'll make some textures now. Let's hope that this project will be a success!
Best,
Maarten
The idea of these PRAs is quite good. I wish you good luck with it!
I like this idea alot, there goes the RHW-8 I used as a ring road....
*sound of road that is being demolished*
How will the median look like?
Quote from: nerdly_dood on June 24, 2009, 02:41:12 PM
I think the American version of what he's thinking of would be a US highway without paved shoulders - those are our main routes around here, if you ignore interstates. They are sometimes built to interstate standards with paved shoulders and offramps and whatnot, but often they have at-grade intersections and steeper slopes etc, and sometimes they're 4 lanes but sometimes 2 or 6 (with an occasional extra climbing lane on long uphill slopes for trucks)... I do agree that this would be a good idea.
Yep, that sounds like it. The US Route system. Although when it's NOT built to interstate standards it usually has at-grade intersections with every road except for major roads (other US Routes for example).
It also reminds me of some roads here in the Austin area that aren't US Route, they're Farm-to-Market routes. Except they're usually 2 lanes.
-- John
Quote from: mrtnrln on June 25, 2009, 06:56:44 AM
- The PRA will not be draggable, at least not in the first place. It's going to be a puzzle-piece based override of the Avenue network, just like the Rural Roads from dedgren. The only exceptions are the ramps, that are using MIS ramps.
- The PRA will have custom puzzle pieces for turning lanes and intersections, so you can create advanced turning lanes setup. How you do it, is all up to you. Lane setup and lane length are completly customizeable. That's an advantage of puzzle-piece-overrides in comparision with RUL override.
That's great Maarten! Completly customizeable intersections is something I always really wanted in SimCity 4. Finally I'll be able to rebuild the Julianaplein (http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=Groningen&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=2.99857,7.042236&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=53.203256,6.564782&spn=0.002879,0.006877&z=17) in Groningen as well making some of my "big" traffic light controlled intersections in my cities more realistic. I'm also glad to hear that the "Prime Road" Avenues will be a Puzzle Piece based override of the avenue network instead of a RUL override. This will be a lot easier (and less frustrating) for the player.
Here are the first prime road textures (US version, since the majority of SC4D lives in North America):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg246.imageshack.us%2Fimg246%2F4798%2Fprastraight.png&hash=dd915f87e9e394296a8f62cc7af3aacddcf6e6e1)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg142.imageshack.us%2Fimg142%2F8103%2Fprartltransistion.png&hash=4b19fc63342878e5e348e53199d4be93f582b575) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg54.imageshack.us%2Fimg54%2F9403%2Fpraltltransistion.png&hash=a3932d9e06e3ee2f50ea4ba5219311c43b65461b) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg181.imageshack.us%2Fimg181%2F5049%2Fprartlltltransistion.png&hash=5bf3cc266a8a2053413582764071e3105a25d0b3)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg383.imageshack.us%2Fimg383%2F6288%2Fprartlnoarrows.png&hash=8d013eb9d1907fb648f615ab70dc5dee6fe40347) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg395.imageshack.us%2Fimg395%2F166%2Fpraltlnoarrows.png&hash=07b4f12f41ffd56775b0c17f9baf9723b56fe5c1)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg170.imageshack.us%2Fimg170%2F6193%2Fprartlarrows.png&hash=e9860a53da11476d30c2822c6160f214f469f4c6) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F6711%2Fpraltlarrowsm.png&hash=7bdb9efc28ed2ebae1503d9839308f273ec77581)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F667%2Fprarampa.png&hash=baa795ac360f0638593090f72a774208e35be213)
Best,
Maarten
Wow nice textures! :thumbsup:
Wow...you are quick! Looks real good!
Jayson
Wow those look really good! :thumbsup:
Vince
looks cool man! us version just looks ugly to me, but well i am used to european roads. :P
Maybe something like this could be made based on road? ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg41.imageshack.us%2Fimg41%2F9738%2Fdroga.png&hash=ad734631492aed213c6c4670ea567294307a0719)
sweet!, are there going to be european versions as well? (just asking)
Looks Great!!! I think this will be a great project. One suggestion would to have them have different textures than the RHW, or make a euro set. That way, you could (or i would at least) have for example, RHW US textures and this Euro, or vice versa, just to tell the difference.
Can't wait to see more!!
Quote from: WC_EEND on June 25, 2009, 12:49:41 PM
sweet!, are there going to be european versions as well? (just asking)
Maybe Nique will let them use his incompleted RHW-2 textures for the euro textures.
JMVL has sent me a manual about how to make puzzle pieces (thank you very much, Joris), so very soon you'll see the first puzzle-pieces :)
Now I only need a IID and IIID range for this project from the NAM Team. If I know which ID's I can use for my project, the whole project finally starts for real.
Best,
Maarten
I would like to help out on this project. I have already talked to Z about helping out on NAM projects
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the very first puzzle pieces of the PRA project:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F8413%2Fyberans20nov07125094339.png&hash=decfd25651fe4c020a388fc34d82b31b39bf3b9e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg194.imageshack.us%2Fimg194%2F9179%2Fyberans19dec07125094349.png&hash=c70d4d79a801f5998d79027ba07965080a4a0021)
These roads will be used in urban situations. You may think these avenues are a little bit narrow, but according to the game scales, every lane is 3.5 meters wide. That's slightly wider than Dedgren's RealRoads. Beside this set, there will also be a rural set.
Another thing I would like to note is that these are my first puzzle pieces EVER. So that's quite an achievement for me.
And the last thing I would like to note is that it looks like some people would like to help me with this project. I can use any help people can give me. I would like to have some people who can make textures, especially US styled ones (because I started with an Euro set). Attached below are all the textures I used for the PRA at this point.
More pieces to come soon!
Best,
Maarten
Great job on the puzzle pieces! That is one aspect that I hope to be able to understand! Anyway, since I have never figured out exactly how certain parts of these are made, I am wondering if this is kinda what you are talking about for a US texture?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx262%2Fsithlrd98%2FUntitled-2-10.jpg&hash=ecc60db581b5c1c5c120c2e428dca2d4e2905239)
It is zoomed in a bit and I'm doing it on the fly...0x5C000004
Jayson
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on June 25, 2009, 02:13:37 PM
Maybe Nique will let them use his incompleted RHW-2 textures for the euro textures.
Download it and take what you can get, it's free ;D
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W9UEQZNJ
How quick can you say PRA TuLEP?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F6742%2Fguilliano30jul951251452.png&hash=b7609f0da9f0e4d73e92eac280137e48ba7229ec)
It took me a week to put this together, but I finally got everything working properly. I've also got a 3-way intersection ready.
Keep watching this thread for more development pictures!
Best,
Maarten
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very nice, also the traffic light is a great job, are they available?
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 28, 2009, 02:58:51 AM
How quick can you say PRA TuLEP?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F6742%2Fguilliano30jul951251452.png&hash=b7609f0da9f0e4d73e92eac280137e48ba7229ec)
It took me a week to put this together, but I finally got everything working properly. I've also got a 3-way intersection ready.
Keep watching this thread for more development pictures!
Best,
Maarten
looking very nice :thumbsup:, if the traffic lights were in black and yellow, they would look just like the Belgian ones :D
Wow! Looks awesome! &apls
Great stuff Maarten. :thumbsup:
I wonder if this will be compatible with the other upcoming roadmods that are in the works (NWM, Real Roads, Tulep, ...)? Or can we only use one of them?
Sweetness ! &apls
WOW!!!!! Good stuff!!! &apls
Awesome guys keep up the great work. That'll go well with the busiest intersection.
BTW will there be something like this in the PRAs?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3701378692_54a8867725_o.jpg
Great project I'm going to follow this &apls
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 28, 2009, 02:58:51 AM
How quick can you say PRA TuLEP?
Yes, that's looking great! :thumbsup: Now all we need are some US road textures. :)
Excellent work ;D. This is exactly what I need for my cities. I currently us a combination of RHW and avenues but isn't aesthetically working for me. Keep up the excellent work &apls.
the only issue about shrinking those lanes is that the automata may in some cases have trouble squeezing by each other without crashing.
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 28, 2009, 02:58:51 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F6742%2Fguilliano30jul951251452.png&hash=b7609f0da9f0e4d73e92eac280137e48ba7229ec)
Now this is sexy :D
In my opinion lanes are too narrow
Are they any narrower than on the Maxis highways? If so, by how much?
I really like this project, and I have great uses for this concept, so keep progressing on it. You're doing good work here.
Hello everyone!
I've gone ahead and tried making some US textures for the initial textures. Here's a pic with them together:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg193.imageshack.us%2Fimg193%2F7356%2Fpraustextures1preview.jpg&hash=9361b00c684287e3b5252f7a9b139b455cf84f94) (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/praustextures1preview.jpg/)
I'd be interested in doing more textures for this awesome project so let me know if you like them or what I should change on them.
Keep up the great work!
@Just_a_guy: Nice textures. The only change I would make is removing the EXIT ONLY text, because it's a accelleration lane too (the piece can be mirrored).
@z: It's slightly wide than a MHW. Every lane of the Urban PRA set is 3.5m wide (which will also be the width of the Real Roads. I know some roads here with lanes of only 2m wide!) , and the Rural set will be even a bit wider.
ss
@RickD: Yes, in fact, this is the answer to dedgren's Real Road, only then for avenues ;)
@Moderator or Administrator: Can you move this thread to the NAM Creations section, please?
Best,
Maarten
Maarten, can I ask you something - will there be diagonals?
Quote from: mrtnrln on September 06, 2009, 08:29:56 AM
@z: It's slightly wide than a MHW. Every lane of the Urban PRA set is 3.5m wide (which will also be the width of the Real Roads. I know some roads here with lanes of only 2m wide!) , and the Rural set will be even a bit wider.
Well, that should put an end to worries about lanes being so narrow that vehicles will crash into each other.
In my opinion, I don't really see the point of having "Prime Road Avenues", when existing avenues and one-way roads could be RHW-ified with offramps, etc and corresponding TULEP sets... it just feels like a needless duplication of a already-perfectly functioning network, even if the lanes are narrower. That being said, though, it could be applied as an urban highway project where it could be used in inner-city areas, complete with compact interchanges, pretty much the whole shebang.
We'd be better off looking at expanding existing Maxis networks, tbh. Sorry if I sound a little discouraging, but hopefully these ideas should help you some.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 08, 2009, 06:58:05 AM
In my opinion, I don't really see the point of having "Prime Road Avenues", when existing avenues and one-way roads could be RHW-ified with offramps, etc and corresponding TULEP sets... it just feels like a needless duplication of a already-perfectly functioning network, even if the lanes are narrower. That being said, though, it could be applied as an urban highway project where it could be used in inner-city areas, complete with compact interchanges, pretty much the whole shebang.
We'd be better off looking at expanding existing Maxis networks, tbh. Sorry if I sound a little discouraging, but hopefully these ideas should help you some.
I'll second that.
Quote from: wallasey on September 08, 2009, 12:10:22 PM
I'll second that!
I have another definition of sexy, it looks good though.
Regards,
Korot
My thoughts, the issue is that since the PRA ramps use MIS which is a good idea, its the issue that the main lanes (while the traffic still fits) are smaller in comparison to the MIS lanes side by side. Thats what makes this look odd. I also would like to point out how small the lane space is between two buses and freight trucks on this network.
Now if they were the closer to being the same size together instead, this would not seem as awkward, but MIS was here first, and has rights to the width its at already. The same way with how Maxis highways have ramps wider then the highway lanes themselves. It would seem like less pieces would have to be made if building off Avenues instead, and wouldn't be fighting for RUL space in the NAM controller as much this way. I understand pieces were already made, but its not too late to change.
However, I think Mrtnrln did hit it on the money with his American textures.
Below is a solution to the resolve the size of the lanes versus the MIS base off Just a Guy's style.
I agree to Maarten when he says that there is a network missing in between the RHW and the existing avenues.
In my current region I experiment with suburbs. I use the avenue as collector roads to lead traffic from local roads into the city center or to the RHW. But avenues just don't look good to me in this situation. I hate the median and the sidewalks. And the RHW looks too Interstate-like.
I would also love to have advanced intersections like the one above.
However, my main concern with this project is that it might be redundant to the NWM project .
Lump me in with the crowd that doesn't get it. While I do understand what is being done here, and its purpose, it seems as though such a thing will be accomplished later on in what I see as an inevitable convergence of the NWM and the RHW. I love the "RealRoads" concept, but I see extending it to avenues in this manner as a sort of limiting case of the NWM and future RHW updates and features. Perhaps the demand for it justifies it being developed sooner rather than later, and I am just not familiar enough with the concept in real life to understand any real use for it (hell, I live in Texas, everything has ramps and slip lanes here, why do I not get this? $%Grinno$%). However, I do understand that as to date, no actual interface or integration between RHW components and avenues, as depicted here, have been created or officially announced (though Tarkus did say that the idea had crossed his mind), so in a certain respect, I do see it as a viable stopgap solution to this supposed (by me only, I'm not saying it will happen) convergence further down the line.
So maybe I was wrong in what I said in the beginning of this post. I like the idea on its own and do support it, but I think it should be developed in concert with the RHW and NWM, but I'm not sure which, since it seems to straddle both equally, in concept and in implementation... and heck, maybe if this can get finished quickly, whoever worked on it can start working on the NWM and get that out too $%Grinno$%
Sorry if this is a bit nonsensical... my middle name is "beer" on Friday nights... and every other day that ends in "y" ::)
Wowowow :o :o :o
EDIT: I think your texture are too clear ;)
I entirely agree with J-Dub, and I think his wider version of the texture is much better (although I can see a bit of quality loss due to JPEG compression)
My preference for this would be something like a cross between avenues and RHW:
- RHW speed limit would probably be about 65mph, and i'd say avenues are 45mph - that would give this Prime Road/Avenue thing a speed limit of 55.
- RHW has a hard, paved shoulder; avenues have no shoulder - this would have a soft, gravel or dirt shoulder
- RHW has very few at-grade intersections; avenues only use at-grade intersections - this would use a combination of at-grade intersections with slip lanes for secondary roads or other PRAs, and some off/onramps for other PRA intersections with more traffic, or intersections with RHWs.
So pretty much this is my thinking - This is a step between RHW and avenues. RHWs are the equivalent of American Interstates, being for long-distance travel, or for urban freeways. Avenues are for shorter intra-city travel; roads are for local traffic, and streets are just side streets, with one-way roads being primarily for downtown areas where one must maximize efficiency however possible, since there isn't much room for expansion. So the PRA fills the gap between RHW and avenues, and would be most likely for regional intercity travel - typically distances under 200 miles.
Quote from: nerdly_dood on September 13, 2009, 10:49:05 AM
- RHW speed limit would probably be about 65mph, and i'd say avenues are 45mph - that would give this Prime Road/Avenue thing a speed limit of 55.
In Simulator Z, avenues are 30 mph - the same as roads. Avenues vary slightly in the other simulators, but in A and B they're also the same as roads. This is necessary for NWM compatibility. If the PRA is being built off the road or avenue network, it would have to have the same speed as well. It's not possible to give it a speed between avenues and highways.
To the detractors of the PRA Concept: You may have no use for this, but I do, and so do many others. The function that arterial roads fill is a vital one in many regions, yet there is no good network for arterial roads -- avenues are too intracity-ish, and RHW, well, that is for freeways, something that arterial roads are not. The PRA fills this role nicely, and I encourage the developers to do this, especially since the NWM is frozen at the moment.
Keep doing what you are doing, I will surely use it :)
I wish to second what Patricius Maximus wrote; This is the missing piece of the jigsaw as far as I am concerned with regards to a region's road network.
A big well done to the progress that has been made so far.
Awesome work, keep it going! I'll go insane when I can finally use it in my cities $%Grinno$%
Hi there guys!
That's really an interesting project here. I've been missing that kind of speed-up for avenues from the start away. There is definitely something missing that would fit between the Avenue and the RHW networks.
However, I'm a bit annoyed by the textures Maarten made. I know such types of massive road markings are used in the Netherlands and some other Euro countries; but then the other types of Euro texture sets are more the way you can see it in Germany or the Czech Republic, both countries with very conservative road-marking traditions, what makes it all a bit chaotic-looking and inconsistent in a way. So a simpler road-marking design would be perhaps better.
That said, there is another issue, which is the lane width. In SC4, the width of a lane amounts to 37-38 pixels, except highways where they are much narrower. In RL, a lane on a main throughfare is about 10.5-12 feet (3.2-3.7 meters wide). Given that, an SC4 tile cannot be thought of as to be 16 m wide but rather something like 12.8 m (since a tile is 128x128 pixels ins size). Therefore, if you want to have 3.5 m wide lanes, you'll have to make them about 35 pixels wide or they will look/be to narrow and thus won't fit too well with the rest of the network.
Just my 0.02 €...
Wilfried
While we say the lanes are too narrow, I look at it as the network between the Maxis highway, and Maxis avenues. However, I think the issue of saying it is too small comes from the fact that the Prime Avenue uses the RHW MIS lanes right next to it, which makes the scale look way off, you have a real wide ramp, next to two or three narrow lanes. Just a guy's picture is a clear demonstration.
While it is not the same, fans of the regular sized avenue and roads, should also know that a similar project is still going on with the NWM/TuLEP's project involving turning and slip lanes.
Quote from: j-dub on November 27, 2009, 05:50:52 PMWhile it is not the same, fans of the regular sized avenue and roads, should also know that a similar project is still going on with the NWM/TuLEP's project involving turning and slip lanes.
Yeah, I've seen that already. I really liked the pictures and the progress and can't wait to get NAM v4.0. $%Grinno$%
Maybe tha lanes are close to realistic measures but in comparison with the other networks of the game are quite a bit narrow. I think it could be better to be closer to road or avenues widening, it should be much more beutiful.
Although that's a great project and very good effort...
Bravo!!!!!
So far, these measures seem to be the controversy of this whole project. Just think of it this way, the Maxis highway scale is not too far off from this, this is bigger then the Maxis highway, but the RHW is bigger then the Maxis. Consider this a smaller version of the avenue. On another note of the scaling, the NWM even will include one new 4 lane network that looks even smaller then this. The network in this picture is still wider then the Tram in Road network. I just want to point out to others who question this scaling to refer to the TuLEP's project based off the road, owr and avenue networks, that has a very similar setup with left and right turn lanes.
I do have to say, that particular picture is awfully cool, although the dashed lines appear to be too fat.