SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Okay, I've have a problem, in each of my regions that are connected to each other I've zoned it to contain roughly 25% Residential, 25% Industrial, and 50% Commercial. So with the map covered with only 25% Residential and the rest employment zones, why is my residential demand always negative? With the majority of buildings not having any workers.. My cities look all messed up, as there are very little residential zones. Is there a way around it? Or do I have to wait until CAM 2.0? (If it ever comes out... Been months already...)

Edit: Oh yeah, I've can't even seem to satisfy the demands for Commercial or Industrial... They are always uber high, even if I contantly zone them. If your asking if I'm using any Super Demand mods then answer is no.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg212.imageshack.us%2Fimg212%2F8647%2Fwheresmyresidents.jpg&hash=d770904d10b018cb2d5b9a035d4bbc4f2c3459c4) (http://img212.imageshack.us/i/wheresmyresidents.jpg/)

There is no doubt that you need more jobs in this region...
The regional workforce (due to the doubling bug) is 999,310.
However, there are only 517,718 + 218,790 = 736,508 commercial and industrial jobs.
That puts the unemployment at 262,801 ... ::)

EHhhhhh, more zones  :-[

Is there a way to edit simcity_1.dat file, eg: deleting the conflicting examplar etc..., if So which one do I need to kill!

Why / what do you want to delete? The suggestion is to zone and create more jobs (Industrial and Commercial).

Quote from: djuice on July 09, 2009, 05:48:41 AM
Is there a way to edit simcity_1.dat file, eg: deleting the conflicting examplar etc..., if So which one do I need to kill!

Use DatPacker to merge ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat with SimCity_1.dat. But don't do this if you plan to continue playing on a region where you've already used CAM, and don't blame me if you screw up and didn't backup SimCity_1.dat first...

Easier to zone for more jobs... :)

Thanks I'll give it a try.

Okay that didn't seem to work...

It screwed it up even more..!!!  :-[

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F2939%2Flmaoy.jpg&hash=fcf965fdfe436a2eafe613cd0041290baaeb8654) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/lmaoy.jpg/)

Quote from: djuice on July 09, 2009, 06:43:21 AM
It screwed it up even more..!!!  :-[

Indeed... regional residential capacity 5,530,494 and workforce 12,011,192. ::)

Quote from: RippleJet on July 09, 2009, 05:59:44 AM
But don't do this if you plan to continue playing on a region where you've already used CAM

Hmmm, it seem that the DATPacker didnt properly merge both SimCity_1.dat and ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat...

I'm using SC4Tool to look through the new dat file, and it seem that the demand RCI bar has resetted to 6000, and none of your modify exemplar seem to be the same.

Before datpacking them, you might want to rename ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat into something that would load after SimCity_1.dat...

Quote from: RippleJet on July 09, 2009, 09:27:34 AM
Before datpacking them, you might want to rename ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat into something that would load after SimCity_1.dat...

like zColossusAddonmod_1.0.dat

Regards,
Korot

Thanks, that fixed it..

Isn't Datpacking CAM a nono?

Quote from: k808j on July 09, 2009, 07:17:14 PM
Isn't Datpacking CAM a nono?

Yes, and this is not a normal datpacking that we've been discussing.
In this case we've merged CAM with SimCity_1.dat in order to keep only one version of the RCI exemplars. All in order to fix the bug that doubles the regional residential capacity and workforce.

Maybe, Tage we should post the exact method on how this is done before too many others read this and try it and screw things up.  ;)

Robin  :thumbsup:

Since this unfortunately wouldn't work well if done for a region where you've already been playing with CAM 1.0, I would rather leave this for CAM 2.0, where this will be the actual installation procedure (provided Wouanagaine creates a custom version of DatPacker for the CAM Installer). ;)

Don't worry rooker1 I have no plans of doing anything we  ()borg() don't understand.

Quote from: RippleJet on July 10, 2009, 06:22:12 AM
Since this unfortunately wouldn't work well if done for a region where you've already been playing with CAM 1.0...

In the spirit of "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread," I decided to try this on my large existing Chicago region, which has a population of 7.5 million.  I did, of course, first prepend my name to the ColossusAddonmod_1.0.dat file (it's amazing how many problems that fixes  ;D).  After that, I found that things worked pretty much as expected.

In other words, not very well.

Demand shifted just in the way that has been predicted, but this included a large drop in commercial demand.  By playing around with the tax rates and calling in Cousin Vinnie (because I can no longer maintain a positive cash flow), I was actually able to get my cities working fairly reasonably.  But I did this only because I had put so much work into them, and I really didn't want to start from scratch.  So unless you're really desperate (like me), for existing regions, I would have to agree completely with RippleJet, and summarize my advice as follows:


For new regions though, this fix would certainly seem to do the trick perfectly.  But don't forget to use my name before DATPacking!   ;D

Being the monkey I am, I saw and did what others pulled off...

Now I assumed the ColossusAddonmod_1.0.dat, once merged with SimCity_1.dat using DatPacker (With none of the options selected), was to be deleted from the CAM folder and SimCity_1.dat was to replace the original...

It appeared to work, though it didn't cause untold chaos in my region when I loaded it up (Though, just because a few things are...off, namely regional estimates, I'll start fresh with a new region). In fact, my largest city of 3 million had a population boom and otherwise only benefited from the change.

With the doubled capacity bug (seemingly) fixed, and my previous efforts of so long ago to increase maximum demand for High Tech in place, I think I've at last arrived at a time where I feel comfortable going whole hog and creating an entire region of skyscraper cities.

Thank you for your report and for making my day happy, HappyDays! :)

Quote from: HappyDays on August 27, 2009, 10:53:01 PM
Being the monkey I am, I saw and did what others pulled off...

Now I assumed the ColossusAddonmod_1.0.dat, once merged with SimCity_1.dat using DatPacker (With none of the options selected), was to be deleted from the CAM folder and SimCity_1.dat was to replace the original...

It appeared to work, though it didn't cause untold chaos in my region when I loaded it up (Though, just because a few things are...off, namely regional estimates, I'll start fresh with a new region). In fact, my largest city of 3 million had a population boom and otherwise only benefited from the change.

With the doubled capacity bug (seemingly) fixed, and my previous efforts of so long ago to increase maximum demand for High Tech in place, I think I've at last arrived at a time where I feel comfortable going whole hog and creating an entire region of skyscraper cities.

Just to be sure, you did rename your CAM file to something that would load after SC1.dat, right?

Regards,
Korot

I did.

Ripple,

:)

Very sorry for offtopic, forgive for newbie. Hey, djuice, what do you do that nice window you got there came up?
Sorry again

You probably mean the Census Repository (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6095.0)? :)

Thanks

Ok, so I tried this, prepending a z to the CAM filename and datpacking it with the simcity4.dat file. There was 3 of everything :(. The NAM had also completely disappeared. I tried to restore the files from the backups i made, but i think something got messed up because now there is two of everything and the NAM turning lanes and commute time reducing measures are gone. Does anyone have a virgin one for me or will I have to reinstall?

EDIT: OH I SEE. When I datpacked the files, i accidentally saved the new simcity4_01.dat file where i backed up the old one  :angrymore:

Fixed. I had left the old Simcity01.dat file and zCollossusmod.dat files intact in plugins by mistake. if only i had realized that before i lost all my cities.

I tried this and it seems to have worked - I was ready to start a new reqion because I was bored and frustrated with the way cam worked before.  Although, there are 2 of lots of things, which I can only guess is a by-product of the franken-cam I have created.  Is my sC4 about to explode because of this, or have I done the inadvisable merging of simcity4_01.dat and cam properly, and the doubled items in the menu are just a regular by-product?

Neither.  My guess is that you have your old copy of SimCity_1.dat somewhere where it's still being loaded.  If so, you want to move it out of the way as soon as possible.

That was it.  I was reading earlier in the thread thinking 'I'm too cool to have made *that* mistake.'  I'm not too cool.  I hadn't gotten around to finding out that it had killed a bunch of cc at that point. But it works great now, so far.   If this is a preview of how the mythical cam 2.0 could work, I'm going to have to start loading SC4 often again.  Having it merged into simcity4_1.dat meant that my duplicate file remover program wouldn't find the duplicate.

Is there any guesstimates based on this rebalancing on when the "doubling issue" works itself out following a "merge fix"? For example say a region with 1 million residents (undoubled) playing with "current" CAM were to be addressed such as z and HappyDays did at what point would the "imbalance" become approximately balanced out.. when the city reached 2million? or am I not seeing this correctly?

Is there a point where the effect becomes "2nd order" where it would approximate a region that had been started out from the beginning with the "doubling fix" installed?

"Official CAM 2.0 beta testers" haven't come that far yet...
I'd love to see if you could contribute by testing this out though!

Quote from: SC4BOY on November 05, 2009, 12:00:37 AM
Is there any guesstimates based on this rebalancing on when the "doubling issue" works itself out following a "merge fix"? For example say a region with 1 million residents (undoubled) playing with "current" CAM were to be addressed such as z and HappyDays did at what point would the "imbalance" become approximately balanced out.. when the city reached 2million? or am I not seeing this correctly?

Is there a point where the effect becomes "2nd order" where it would approximate a region that had been started out from the beginning with the "doubling fix" installed?

Though I can't answer your question directly, not having come that far myself, I can at least say that there is hope for existing regions.  My Chicago region of 7.5 million Sims, which was converted 2 1/2 months ago, works fine, once I made the modifications I described above.  I've only had time to use it for testing, though, so it hasn't grown at all.  My guess (and this is only a guess) is that the more your region grows, the less significant the former doubling effect will be, especially in newly-built cities.  But as RippleJet says, real data about this will have to await feedback from the beta testers.

Quote from: RippleJet on November 05, 2009, 01:18:02 AM
"Official CAM 2.0 beta testers" haven't come that far yet...
I'd love to see if you could contribute by testing this out though!

Well I expect I will try it .. however, the issue is "When is the effect = 'CAM2' start?" This could prove to be an extremely burdensome task.. lets say I put the "doubling fix" into a city of 1 million.. in order to "test" it properly I'd have to run the region up to some point TBD (to be defined)... To properly test, it would require 2 runs of the same region .. the "double fix" one and a new region of approximately the same configuration and population to compare it to..

Has anyone defined the questions to ask and the expected answers that would say "ok, these are now equal" or that would say, without a "compare" city that "Hey this is now running "normally".. ie.. how'd I know?

Quote from: z on November 05, 2009, 10:37:31 AM
...  My Chicago region of 7.5 million Sims, which was converted 2 1/2 months ago, works fine, once I made the modifications I described above. 

I don't really think you have enough data to say much one way or the other.. have you asked yourself (or even formulated the questions) implied above? If you have, your "tests" would be of interest

Quote from: SC4BOY on November 05, 2009, 11:17:51 AM
...have you asked yourself (or even formulated the questions) implied above? If you have, your "tests" would be of interest

Yes, those are exactly the questions I've been considering.  I've run various cities in my region for up to 40 years at a time, over the same time period, both with and without the fix.  While population doesn't change, the cities perform identically with and without the fix, as far as I can tell, as long as the changes I described above are made.  My tests included close examination of all the city data aspects that are readily available, so I believe they have some validity. 

Quote from: z on November 05, 2009, 11:49:26 AM
..., the cities perform identically with and without the fix, as far as I can tell, as long as the changes I described above are made.

The only changes you mention is reducing taxes and using money cheats.. how can that be "performing the same"?

Perhaps there is more to it than I am seeing.. In my mind "performing the same" means that the two cities have the resonable tax structures, a balanced RCI ratio, balanced demand, etc.. not just that they aren't "precipitately crashing" .. :)

After merging CAM with SimCity_1.dat, you will certainly get a recession in the commercial and industrial sectors, and a residential housing boom.
Thus, one good goal would be to manage to develop the region to a point where the workplace capacity (C+I) has returned to what it was before.
If, at that time, there's positive demand both in residentials, commercials and industrials, I'd say you've reached your point.

Quote from: SC4BOY on November 05, 2009, 01:23:58 PM
The only changes you mention is reducing taxes and using money cheats.. how can that be "performing the same"?

My goal here was to do something that would allow existing regions to continue to be playable under CAM 2.0.  Over time, as the regions grew, I would expect that the mods you mentioned could gradually be reduced, and possibly eliminated.  We'll have to see.

Quote from: RippleJet on November 05, 2009, 02:17:13 PM
After merging CAM with SimCity_1.dat, you will certainly get a recession in the commercial and industrial sectors, and a residential housing boom.

I experienced no housing boom; demand for R$$$ continued to be negative at normal tax rates, and demand for R$$ dropped from positive to negative at normal tax rates.

Quote from: z on November 05, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
I experienced no housing boom; demand for R$$$ continued to be negative at normal tax rates, and demand for R$$ dropped from positive to negative at normal tax rates.

It is quite possible that you would have to play all cities in your region in order to get the correct extrapolated demand out from them to the region.
Check the regional residential capacity as reported by the Census Repository Facility in each city while doing that.
At some point residential demand should pick up, when the doubled regional capacity has been wiped out.

Quote from: RippleJet on November 05, 2009, 02:17:13 PM
...where the workplace capacity (C+I) has returned to what it was before.
If, at that time, there's positive demand both in residentials, commercials and industrials, I'd say you've reached your point.

That probably sounds like a reasonable guide. I'll probably backup my region and give that a shot.. but I'm guessing I'll have to make significant population gains before this condition is met.. And at the rate I play the region, I'm afraid it will be some time :(  If I have anything worth stating, I'll post my results.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that this will entail a fair amount of time and attention.. So I may as well ask RJ.. is there any particular conditions you'd like me to document as I go along.. and I'm using the merged  .dat file .. although I also used a modified dat as I had previously integrated the extracheats.dll into it. But if I'm going to spend this time and effort, you may have certain concepts or elements along the "CAM2" line that you'd rather have me use while I'm at it.. let me know if so before I get  far along

Quote from: z on November 05, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
.. I would expect that the mods you mentioned could gradually be reduced, and possibly eliminated.  We'll have to see.

Exactly my point.. you've not done enough to demonstrate any success at my stated objective

QuoteI experienced no housing boom; demand for R$$$ continued to be negative at normal tax rates, and demand for R$$ dropped from positive to negative at normal tax rates.

Also supporting my statement.. Simply stated, you may have not had the region collapse, but you've hardly demonstrated any objective condition for being equal to a "zero start"

Wait, so if I were to combine the CAM dat file and SimCity1.dat, there'd be issues, but combine the CAM .dat with SimCity4.dat and I'm good to go if I want to remove the doubled residents thingie?

Quote from: dragonshardz on November 05, 2009, 06:27:01 PM
Wait, so if I were to combine the CAM dat file and SimCity1.dat, there'd be issues,

Yes. There is no way you can avoid having issues when half the regional residential population suddenly vanishes (when the doubling effect disappears).

Quote from: dragonshardz on November 05, 2009, 06:27:01 PM
but combine the CAM .dat with SimCity4.dat and I'm good to go if I want to remove the doubled residents thingie?

No, you cannot merge it with SimCity_4.dat. That would not remove the doubled regional residential and workforce capacity, since the RCI exemplars would still appear twice, this time both in SimCity_1.dat and SimCity_4.dat.

OK, thanks for clearing that up. People had been mentioning combining CAM.dat with SimCity4.dat and I was confused.

Quote from: RippleJet on November 05, 2009, 03:39:00 PM
It is quite possible that you would have to play all cities in your region in order to get the correct extrapolated demand out from them to the region.

This is the first thing I did, as it seemed like a logical and necessary first step.

QuoteCheck the regional residential capacity as reported by the Census Repository Facility in each city while doing that.

My residential workforce is now half of what it was, or a little over half of the region's population.  There are now also 2.2 million unfilled jobs, whereas this number used to be negative.  But no housing boom.  :(

QuoteAt some point residential demand should pick up, when the doubled regional capacity has been wiped out.

It's definitely wiped out.  Maybe I just have to run the game longer?

Quote from: z on November 06, 2009, 02:30:53 AM
Maybe I just have to run the game longer?

Yes.
Also monitor the long-term regional demand in the Census Repository.
Growth always comes to a halt if the regional capacity is close to the long-term demand.
The long-term demand is the sum of all extrapolated demand from your cities.
In order to increase that, you'd need to run each city for quite a while.

Okay, just to confirm what I'm thinking. IF I were to merge my SimCity1.dat and CAM.dat files delete the latter, then play an established region I will have an economic crash as the game rebalances. However, if I start a new region it will develop with the new rules.

I ask because I am tired of having as many jobs as residents as jobs in my region.

Quote from: crushedcar on January 15, 2010, 02:00:11 PM
Okay, just to confirm what I'm thinking. IF I were to merge my SimCity1.dat and CAM.dat files delete the latter, then play an established region I will have an economic crash as the game rebalances. However, if I start a new region it will develop with the new rules.

I ask because I am tired of having as many jobs as residents as jobs in my region.

You are right, but the economic crash can be resolved, it just takes some time and effort, but it has been done (points to Steve).

Regards,
Korot

I came across CAM a few days ago and I would like to know how to do this fix. If anyone can show me a thread or shoot me a PM on how to merge those two files, I'd very much appreciate it :D

well i am kinda new here (on the forum) got like everything from simgoober , great work and many thanks, as well a bunch of other stuff.and a week ago i decided to go CAM.what should i say the doubling bug , or so its called , hit me.you r talking about merging CAM .dat with SimCity1.dat.how do i do that?with the datpacker?if so , exactly how?

Quote from: rhythmandjays on January 16, 2010, 11:33:42 AM
If anyone can show me a thread or shoot me a PM on how to merge those two files, I'd very much appreciate it :D

Quote from: viper0074 on January 16, 2010, 11:44:53 PM
how do i do that?with the datpacker?if so , exactly how?

First, you need DatPacker 2008 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=26).
If you've still got the SC4DatPacker Anniversary version (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1271) on your HD, please delete it right away.
Due to its sorting algorithm it would unfortunately screw up your SimCity_1.dat.

Then, follow these steps:

• Backup your SimCity_1.dat (it's a file in Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\). Don't tell me afterwards you forgot...
• Create a subfolder called SimCity_1 in your plugins folder (My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\)
• Copy SimCity_1.dat into this recently created SimCity_1 folder
• Copy ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat (from My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\a_CAM) to this same folder, SimCity_1.
• Rename this copy of ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat to z_ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat
• Run DatPacker. Select the folder SimCity_1.dat to be packed. A datpacked file named SimCity_1.dat is created in Plugins_Compressed
• Move this file to Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\, replacing the original SimCity_1.dat which was there
• Please verify once more that you did not leave another copy of SimCity_1.dat in the Plugins_Compressed folder
• Delete the SimCity_1 subfolder that you created in your plugins folder
• Delete the ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat file in the a_CAM subfolder

okay - i've been following this thread very closely since my resident situation is wacky as well.  so, thank you for the exact steps to follow - i have no doubt i can do them all with no problem cause i use datpacker all the time and have become comfortable maintaining my plugin folders (the plugins i'm playing and the ones that are disabled).  now - my question to you is:

is this safe to do?
will it cause me trouble down the road when the new cam comes out?
do you recommend this method or waiting?
and can you put the two datpacked files back if you decide you for whatever reason like the old set up better?
have ctd's been noted after doing this?

i hate to ask so many questions (especially when i said i only had one :) )  but i worked super hard to keep my computer pretty clean as far as stuff causing ctd's and i don't want to introduce something new that's going to freak my game out.  let me know what you think.  Thanks! and have a great day.  DeeCee

You've got questions, I've got answers.

Quote from: deecee on January 18, 2010, 08:04:43 AM
is this safe to do?

Yes, as long as you back up your SimCity1.dat file beforehand.

Quote
will it cause me trouble down the road when the new cam comes out?

Don't know actually, depends on wether or not the installer will also work with a dat-packed SimCity1.dat. But in that case, just put the old version back in, and you'll be fine.

Quote
do you recommend this method or waiting?

Depends, do you want a fix now, or in a couple of months when CAM 2.0 comes out? Remember, no-one knows when CAM 2.0 comes out, so this one is what I advise.

Quote
and can you put the two datpacked files back if you decide you for whatever reason like the old set up better?

Yes, you can. You'll get the bug back, but other than that, nothing will (or should...) happen.

Quote
have ctd's been noted after doing this?

Not to my knowledge.

Regards,
Korot

Quote from: Korot on January 18, 2010, 11:36:30 AM
You've got questions, I've got answers.

Regards,
Korot

Done.  I'll let you know how it turns out and thanks!  DeeCee

Quote from: deecee on January 18, 2010, 02:02:20 PM
Done.  I'll let you know how it turns out and thanks!  DeeCee

hello - so i played a bit on an old region - sorry i don't have any before-datpacking population stats - and i have negative demand for every job category and r$ and r$$ are maxed out and r$$$ is about 3/4's.  is this expected?

i have to say - these conditions don't worry me much because unfortunately none of my cities are good enough that i've grown real attached to them or would freak if i lost them.  so i'm really just curious if others who've done the cam datpacking have had the same kinda outcome on an existing region.  i'm going to go start a new region and see what happens!  thanks, DeeCee

Negative demand can happen for a lot of reasons. Check your taxes, and the parks & services you're providing, as well as the Caps reported by the Census Repository v3 (if you dont have it already, it's on the LEX, just search for RippleJet under creator).

CAM shouldn't present many new problems, as long as you've only got CAMpatible buildings in play. But it may exasserbate problems you already had in the city/region.

Make sure you read through the other CAM threads... there's a lot of interesting information regarding Stage Caps and such, to help you as you make the adjustment to CAM.

Quote from: xxdita on January 21, 2010, 11:14:19 PM
Negative demand can happen for a lot of reasons. Check your taxes, and the parks & services you're providing, as well as the Caps reported by the Census Repository v3 (if you dont have it already, it's on the LEX, just search for RippleJet under creator).

CAM shouldn't present many new problems, as long as you've only got CAMpatible buildings in play. But it may exasserbate problems you already had in the city/region.

Make sure you read through the other CAM threads... there's a lot of interesting information regarding Stage Caps and such, to help you as you make the adjustment to CAM.

hey there - i did the steps to combine and datpack the SimCity_1.dat and ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat; do you think my negative demand has anything to do with that?  there was a previous ripplejet post that i just read that said "After merging CAM with SimCity_1.dat, you will certainly get a recession in the commercial and industrial sectors, and a residential housing boom" which is EXACTLY what's happened to me!  so - looks like i should get zoning for a bunch of residential.

thanks again, DeeCee

Yup, that too... and I think most importantly, make sure you go into each of your cities and let them play for about 10 years or so, without doing much of anything, so that you can see the full effect of the damage, and then deal with it head-on.

Quote from: RippleJet on January 18, 2010, 06:34:46 AM

First, you need DatPacker 2008 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=26).
If you've still got the SC4DatPacker Anniversary version (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1271) on your HD, please delete it right away.
Due to its sorting algorithm it would unfortunately screw up your SimCity_1.dat.

Then, follow these steps:

• Backup your SimCity_1.dat (it's a file in Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\). Don't tell me afterwards you forgot...
• Create a subfolder called SimCity_1 in your plugins folder (My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\)
• Copy SimCity_1.dat into this recently created SimCity_1 folder
• Copy ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat (from My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\a_CAM) to this same folder, SimCity_1.
• Rename this copy of ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat to z_ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat
• Run DatPacker. Select the folder SimCity_1.dat to be packed. A datpacked file named SimCity_1.dat is created in Plugins_Compressed
• Move this file to Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\, replacing the original SimCity_1.dat which was there
• Please verify once more that you did not leave another copy of SimCity_1.dat in the Plugins_Compressed folder
• Delete the SimCity_1 subfolder that you created in your plugins folder
• Delete the ColossusAddonMod_1.0.dat file in the a_CAM subfolder

Hi :)

I followed these steps recently through suggestion of xxdita to "properly" setup CAM. However, after doing exactly as listed above, I logged in-game and noticed that all my Mayor-mode and even God-mode "buildings" icons were doubled. Instead of having one icon for Roads, for example, I would have two Road icons right next to each other, two Street icons, two Avenue icons. Not every icon was like this, but almost 80% of them were doubled. It didn't seem to affect actual gameplay at all, but the menus were very congested and it seems odd enough that it would happen to begin with. I did not leave the old file traces in any plugin folder, as others had done. Which is why this is even more weird for me.

Thanks in advance if anyone has an idea on what went wrong?

Edit: Tried re-packing a third time for the charm just to ensure I really followed every step and did not leave any extra files. Still shows most icons doubled. Very odd.
Edit2: I hate bittersweet moments: I figured out why my icons continued to be doubled. In Step 1 when you make a backup of SimCity_1.dat naturally you would rename it to something else, as to not let the game load it. Well, it seems that regardless of what you rename the file to, the game will continue to load THAT file, over the new "SimCity_1.dat" if the original dat remains in the root folder.  It seems that the game doesn't care if it's renamed; it will continue to load it. I moved the file into "C:\Program Files\Maxis" instead of "C:\Program Files\Maxis\Sim City 4 Deluxe\" and loaded the game up and the problem was fixed. No more doubled icons.  :thumbsup:

Sorry for making such a hasty post to my problem. I was having it last night, but didn't spend much time trying to solve the issue until this morning. Hopefully my trial and error may help another who is experiencing a similar issue.

Reading your last two edits, I conclude that the game reads all .dat-s in your C:\Program Files\Maxis\Sim City4\ folder, and pending on what loads last, will use that information. However, icons and such have the same bug as the RES simulator, they can't be overridden, instead, they supplement each other.

Regards,
Korot

The names of files are absolutely irrelevant to Simcity.. It LOOKS at EVERY file and processes EVERY file that has the proper structure that is in the plugins folders. The only way you can avoid this is to MOVE the original FILE to an "originals" folder or whatever OUTSIDE the plugins folders. Many people have fallen into this trap over the years (for example renaming a file "xxx.bak" or whatever.. does no good)

Quote from: Korot on January 27, 2010, 11:22:33 AM
However, icons and such have the same bug as the RES simulator, they can't be overridden, instead, they supplement each other.

Icons can be overridden; you just have to zero the old one out first.  Simulator Z needs to do this because it changes the monthly cost of subway tiles, which is displayed with the icon; you can look at the exemplars in the simulator file to see how it's done.

Quote from: SC4BOY on January 27, 2010, 11:45:09 AM
The names of files are absolutely irrelevant to Simcity.. It LOOKS at EVERY file and processes EVERY file that has the proper structure that is in the plugins folders. The only way you can avoid this is to MOVE the original FILE to an "originals" folder or whatever OUTSIDE the plugins folders. Many people have fallen into this trap over the years (for example renaming a file "xxx.bak" or whatever.. does no good)

In general, this is true.  However, the game does ignore files whose extension begins ".sav".

May I ask here, I am using the CAM_5%_R$$_Working_in_IR.dat, should I treat this file as well?

Quote from: gtaki on April 04, 2010, 04:30:24 AM
May I ask here, I am using the CAM_5%_R$$_Working_in_IR.dat, should I treat this file as well?

If you mean, should you merge that file with SimCity_1.dat as well, then the answer is no.
All three CAM_5%_R$$_Working*.dat files can safely still reside in the a_CAM folder.

Quote from: z on January 27, 2010, 01:03:15 PM
In general, this is true.  However, the game does ignore files whose extension begins ".sav".

Not sure what made you believe that...
Just like all other files in your plugins folder(s), *.sav files are loaded by the game.

Quote from: RippleJet on April 04, 2010, 12:05:33 PM
Not sure what made you believe that...
Just like all other files in your plugins folder(s), *.sav files are loaded by the game.

I first noticed this with SC4Tool, which automatically creates .sav files.  Yet these didn't seem to interfere with the newer files, which preceded them alphabetically.  I did some further tests, and found that the .sav files were ignored as long as there was a file with the same main name in the current folder (or somewhere else in a position that would override it).

Quote from: z on January 27, 2010, 01:03:15 PM
In general, this is true.  However, the game does ignore files whose extension begins ".sav".

Quote from: z on April 04, 2010, 02:10:58 PM
I first noticed this with SSPTool, which automatically creates .sav files.  Yet these didn't seem to interfere with the newer files, which preceded them alphabetically.  I did some further tests, and found that the .sav files were ignored as long as there was a file with the same main name in the current folder (or somewhere else in a position that would override it).

Hmmm.. I didn't test your statement above as you didn't say "I think", or "It seems" but stated it as a flat truth. I assumed you had tested it. What seems to be true however is that, just as other files, *.sav files are read by the loader and are only "ignored" the same as any other file extension would be.. ie if it were overridden.. or possibly in a slightly modified process?

Yes, I had tested it.  In general, if you have two files of the same type in the same folder, the one whose name appears later in the alphabet will override the first one.  But all my tests have shown that this is not true of .sav files.  If you have a .dat file and then the same file that ends in .sav instead of .dat, but whose properties aren't completely identical, the properties in the .dat file are used.

EDIT:  I just did some more testing, and discovered that the rules are a little more complex than I thought.  Here's what I found:  Basically, the game differentiates between known SC4 extensions (.dat, .SC4Lot, etc.) and all others.  If it finds a file with a known SC4 extension, then all subfiles in that file are loaded, overriding any previous subfiles with identical IDs.  If the game finds a file with an unknown extension, it will load the subfiles it contains only if subfiles with the same IDs have not already been loaded.

Of course you must be prepared for the general case of any file appearing in any folder (including duplicates, renames, modifications, etc) independent of the content of any other given folder.

Quote from: z on April 04, 2010, 05:48:41 PM
If you have a .dat file and then the same file that ends in .sav instead of .dat, but whose properties aren't completely identical, the properties in the .dat file are used.

Steve, dat files are always loaded after all other files (regardless of their extensions).
I recently posted this, in a thread that isn't that easily connected with loading order...
Read especally the last two lines: :)

Quote from: RippleJet on March 27, 2010, 04:36:08 AM
I made some more testing myself to confirm the loading order.
The Sku_data is loaded after SimCityLocal.dat, but before the Programs Plugins folder.

I also noted that even subfolders in the language folder (e.g. English) are loaded:

• 1. \Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4
      - This is where e.g. the SimCity_x.dat files are loaded
  

• 2. \Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Language subfolder
      - the subfolder is based on the "Language" setting in the Registry
      - all subfolders are recursively loaded first
      - this is where SimCityLocal.dat (and an occasional splash screen) is loaded
  

• 3. \Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Sku_Data
      - all subfolders are recursively loaded first
  

• 4. \Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Plugins
      - all subfolders are recursively loaded first
      - this is the plugins folder for Maxis' official landmarks
  

• 5. \My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins
      - all subfolders are recursively loaded first
      - this is the plugins folder for custom content

Within each folder and subfolder, files are loaded alphabetically,
first all files not having a dat extension, and last all *.dat files.

Hmm...  The tests I did wouldn't have differentiated this particular case.

[Does some more tests.]

Sure enough, you're right.  So your last two lines summarize it perfectly.  :thumbsup:

So the only reason SC4Tool gets away with using .sav files is that SC4Tool tends to operate either on .SC4* files, which come later in the alphabet than .sav files, or on .dat files, which get loaded last.   Hmm...  &Thk/(

Maybe your conclusion should be copied to a more accessible place, as it seems to be a perennial subject of confusion...

Quote from: z on April 05, 2010, 12:29:49 PM
Maybe your conclusion should be copied to a more accessible place

Yes, that's a good idea... done (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10542.0)! ;)

After reading this very information post I am still a little confused.  I am about to start SC4 from scratch (i.e. new install, new plugins etc.), I was planning to use CAM as although I like building low-rise realistic cities (and particulalry rural areas) many of the features in CAM would seem to appeal my gameplay (the farms, new stages, spreading of stages etc.).

However, I am keen to avoid this problem of double demand and lack of residents that some people have found.  Therefore, would you recommend me complete the DatPacking of the CAM and SimCity_1.dat before I start my regions.  (am planning on reformatting my computer at the weekend hence have a small window before I decide how I am going to play the game).

Absolutely, go ahead and set it up properly from the beginning, and you'll have much less problems.

damn, i don't understand any single things that you guys talking about.
can someone explain the correct way to do this, please, my city screwed up since i'm using CAM. (sorry if my english is bad)

-Make a new folder in plugins and name it "SimCity_1"
-Find the SimCity_1.dat in your Program Files\Sim City Folder
-Back it up somewhere and put it in the new folder.
-Put the CAM file into the new folder as well.
-Rename the CAM file z_cam.
-Run Datpacker on the SimCity_1 folder

You will now have a "Plugins Compressed" folder, with a file called SimCity_1.dat.  This is your cammed-simcity_1.dat.  This file is then placed back in the Program Files\Sim City folder.
 

Hate to necro this but there's seems to something wrong with my datpacking, because no "plugins compressed" folder appears, anywhere.

I have followed the steps to the letter (as far as Im aware of) yet nothing has changed.

Can't really start new regions 'cause after the first four - five cities no one wants to move in so would appreciate any help.

Again, apologies for the ancient necromancy. :(

Kolossi, when you open DatPacker, there is a path displayed at the top of the window (indicated as "Destination directory"). Your packed dat file will be there.

Okay, got it now. Have yet to notice reprecussions but I'm sure something will be different from now on.