Hellos SC4D community. I've been lurking here for a while, and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge and ingenuity available here. I'm hoping to give a little something back, but I need some help first.
I've been working on some parking lots, using Walking Snakes textures. I'm surprised there aren't more good parking lots available, and I haven't found any using these outstanding textures, so I made my own. I have a couple of sets I've been working on, some complete parking lots, available in both grey and black, with some samples here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F9457%2Fhhparkinglotssample.jpg&hash=30c5bfb9a0f22989ed265612d408116773b1f04d)
So far I've made 2x3, 2x4, 2x5, 2x6, 3x3, 3x5, 4x5, 3x6 and 4x6, the last 4 only in grey, the others both grey and black.
And then some modular parking lots, a series of 1x1 lots (also in both grey and black), that can be combined to make various size and shape parking lots, as shown here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F9691%2Fhhmodularparkinglotssam.jpg&hash=b4d0a544ea3981c4279fcbb548c995b5c3a41794)
The larger parking lots above were all made using individual 1x1 lots. There are obviously many other combinations possible.
There are several problems with all these lots the I need help fixing. If I can get them fixed, I would love to release them.
First, I can't figure out how to make them functional. They are currently network enabled, so they create a street connection, but they aren't functional parking lots. I have a basic understanding of the plug-in manager and the various editors. I've read that it's best not to use invisible buildings, so I'm not sure what to use for a building. And if the answer is to use an invisible building, I don't know how to create one, or how to edit the various parameters for the various size lots.
Second, I can't figure out how to make some of the lights work. The modular lots have lights that work (and they probably have too many lights on them), but the other parking lots use different lights, and I don't know how to make them work.
Third, I need some feedback, especially on their appearance. I realize some of the lots have no lights on them, and some of the cars don't fit in the stalls, and some don't have any cars at all. I've been using them and like the way they look in my city, but if I'm going to release them, I want to make sure they are something that are worth releasing.
Any and all feedback and/or help is most appreciated.
Jeff (but seriously, most of my friends call me Hoo Ha)
Quote from: hooha47 on July 25, 2009, 02:40:45 PM
First, I can't figure out how to make them functional. They are currently network enabled, so they create a street connection, but they aren't functional parking lots. I have a basic understanding of the plug-in manager and the various editors. I've read that it's best not to use invisible buildings, so I'm not sure what to use for a building. And if the answer is to use an invisible building, I don't know how to create one, or how to edit the various parameters for the various size lots.
Functional parking lots are basically garages without buildings...
Thus, in this case, it is fully acceptable to use "invisible buildings",
just like Maxis did on almost all their park lots, using the invisible model, TGI 0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0x0E110000.
However, an invisible building doesn't have to refer to an actual empty model.
An even better way it to set the Resource Key Type 0 to point to 0x0,0x0,0x0.
In such a case there will be no risk of getting brown boxes, if the user would manage to delete the empty model file.
Since it's so easy to create a proper invisible building in the X Tool, I decided to attach one to this post for you.
It's a 1×1 parking lot with an invisible garage sized 15×15 m.
You need to change the texture, add props and possible network enable it yourself though.
After that you can "save as" in LE in order to create other copies of it.
Since a functional garage needs road access, you cannot use these lots behind each other though.
You would in that case need to make separate 1×2, 1×3, 1×4, etc. lots as well.
In those cases you probably also want to double/triple/etc. the capacities and other properties.
You would probably want to create custom icons for them as well...
Otherwise they will be rather difficult to distinguish from each other in the ingame MiscTransit menu.
Quote from: hooha47 on July 25, 2009, 02:40:45 PM
Second, I can't figure out how to make some of the lights work. The modular lots have lights that work (and they probably have too many lights on them), but the other parking lots use different lights, and I don't know how to make them work.
Functional lightpoles need to be RKT4 props, where the lightbulbs are timed to appear only at night,
just like any of the ingame lightpoles having names starting with Streetlight1x1x11...
Thank you so much for your help Ripplejet. I'm not sure I understand everything, but I will use the building you created for me and see what I can do. I expect I'll be posting some more questions in the near future, but this is a great help.
Thanks again.
OK, two more questions. What is an appropriate capacity for different size lots? Would it be best to do it on a per square bases? I was looking at maybe 250 per square. That number seemed low at first, but would result in a capacity of 3000 for a 2x6 lot, which seems about right compared to what else I've seen.
Also, I made some parking lots using the building that Ripplejet made for me (thanks again, that was unbelievably helpful), and tested them out and they seem to function properly (they are being used). But with other functioning parking lots that I've downloaded and used, I've been able to grow commercial on parking lots, with no road connection. I have been unable to do this with my parking lots. I've looked at the transit settings in SC4 tool, but can't find anything that would lead to this difference.
Any ideas?
Personnally, as one who uses parking lots probably more than the average, I think you should set the capacity on the high side. Much better to have one too large, but functional in a small situation than to have one too small in a large situation.
Of the lots that I use now, they run from 50-1500 per square. The HIGH one is a "underground" lot that takes one square, but I assume the idea is that it is an entrance and the parking is below. Your postulation is probably pretty good. The Maxis lot is what 3x3 and holds 5000? I still use it now and then, but more often use "flat" and smaller ones.
The primary problem with the lot is true for any "transit enabled" lot. That is the old game problem of making transit enabled lots of any size appear to be of zero size. (there are many discussions of this issue under various headings) but this issue causes the traffic simulators to treat the lots as "short cuts" and funnel a ton of traffic through the lot even though they aren't "parking" there. :)
Good luck on them. We can always use some nice lots. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
QuoteLooking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Hoo Ha: Me, too.
David
Thanks for the support. David is watching, now the pressure is on ;).
Here's what I have so far, some gray and black parking lots:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F1265%2Fgreyandblackday.jpg&hash=8c5a60232008ff635c189df9faf0b8d156b153aa)
And at night:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F6817%2Fgreyandblacknight.jpg&hash=73266e2604b1b9357459aa481fa851dfc97287be)
And some bigger gray lots:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg7.imageshack.us%2Fimg7%2F2148%2Fbiggreyday.jpg&hash=7b2fb3b15222a812996a1bd9d615401c4c9300b5)
And at night:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg527.imageshack.us%2Fimg527%2F5168%2Fbiggreynight.jpg&hash=7ca78cd1016354171ea8f5b9db79e2c3dcfe60d1)
I have a couple little things I'm trying to figure out still, but wondering if I should start a thread in Lot Editor Projects in order to get some feedback. I really want to know what anyone thinks of these, good and bad. I'm very open to constructive criticism :thumbsdown:. (I also accept praise :thumbsup:).
looking very nice here Hooha!!!
Quote from: hooha47 on July 29, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
I have a couple little things I'm trying to figure out still, but wondering if I should start a thread in Lot Editor Projects in order to get some feedback.
That's a very good idea! :thumbsup:
Although, you're more likely to bump into me over here... :D
Quote from: hooha47 on July 29, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
I really want to know what anyone thinks of these, good and bad. I'm very open to constructive criticism :thumbsdown:.
Which car cluster family have you used on these?
I suppose it's 0xA000003D, with cars appearing randomly during business hours.
The other one is 0x0000001E, with cars appearing off business hours
(when people and their cars should be at home).
Quote from: hooha47 on July 29, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
(I also accept praise :thumbsup:).
And you've deserved that for these! :thumbsup:
Thanks for the comment Pat. Are you the same Pat that created the BLAM parking lots? If so, your comment means even more; those are some of the only parking lots I've been able to find that I like.
And RippleJet, thanks for your comment as well. Once again, I appreciate your support. You asked about the cars. I'm actually using Oxa0000038, which I believe is a Maxis family, and is not a cluster, but just one car. I tried using Oxa000003D, but the cars aren't spaced properly to fit in the stalls. I don't have the other one you mentioned, and I have all the main prop packs, but I'm guessing it would have the same problem. I don't like the car family I'm using, it has too many junkers and older cars, and they aren't particularly good models, but it's the only one I've been able to find besides the ones you mentioned. I'm open to suggestions. I looked into making a prop family, but it seemed like more than I wanted to tackle.
I have some TE questions. As you can see in the following picture, I figured out how to make commercial grow on the lots.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg291.imageshack.us%2Fimg291%2F6209%2Fparkinglotwithcomgrowth.jpg&hash=954c3de6ccd5ccd08211d0d8d3e472b687cd3bbb)
I've read some of your posts regarding the issues with transit enabling lots, so I want to see if this is OK. Here are pictures from SC4 Tool showing how I TE'd two lots.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg7.imageshack.us%2Fimg7%2F4485%2F2x5te.jpg&hash=0b6efb198b9334fae429324be468e250790cf8f1)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F8360%2F3x5te.jpg&hash=43569f087c85f90129bdb3e3c69858e036035454)
Is this going to cause problems?
One more thing I wanted to show. These parking lots, once they are made, will be very easy to change the base texture. Obviously, some of these are a little off the wall, but I made all of these in less than 5 minutes.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F9053%2Fparkinglotdifferenttext.jpg&hash=eceb1764c3c39a8eb2f66cbb56d9e6b363369f6a)
I definitely plan to do black and gray. And maybe some others as well.
Quote from: hooha47 on July 30, 2009, 10:23:06 PM
I'm actually using Oxa0000038, which I believe is a Maxis family, and is not a cluster, but just one car. I tried using Oxa000003D, but the cars aren't spaced properly to fit in the stalls.
Family 0xA0000038 contains cars that appear off-business hours.
If you want to use the parking lots for people going to work, you would rather want to use the family 0xA0000102.
Those cars appear during daytime, when people are at work.
Quote from: hooha47 on July 30, 2009, 10:23:06 PM
I have some TE questions. As you can see in the following picture, I figured out how to make commercial grow on the lots.
Is this going to cause problems?
The same problem as with all stations... people will jump across them.
If you plop your parking lots in a larger city and route-query them,
you will probably see pedestrians and cars jumping across them from one corner to another.
All such traffic, shortcutting the parking lot, will count up against the capacity you've given them.
OK, one more thing.
I TE'd a lot like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F8448%2Ftenew.jpg&hash=a97cde96cb6d35c5cffafeae2583b2b219b5352e)
As you can see, it doesn't connect all the way through. Commercial will grow along the sides:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F1638%2Fcommgrowing.jpg&hash=3cf64d7bcc7a8f3dd2ab13d8e7d6dd36882a5635)
I didn't take a picture, but cars and peds do not short cut through the parking lots.
When I do a query, they have jobs, and they don't abandon:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg171.imageshack.us%2Fimg171%2F2755%2Fcommercialjobs.jpg&hash=54d258205c8d0754d0273f26aa7e288ab723a0b9)
But when I do a route query, it shows no workers.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg193.imageshack.us%2Fimg193%2F4894%2Fworkersnone.jpg&hash=00ac986b23158284f3903f08cc0a2c8da554b77c)
In every other way, the commercial seems to be functioning normally, the parking lots work (although in the above pictures they aren't being used), and they aren't being used as shortcuts.
Is there a problem here? Is there some reason why I shouldn't make them this way?
As for the cars, I really don't like any of the options. The last one, 0xA0000102, is very limited in the number of cars used, starts to look very repetitive. As soon as I get the TE stuff figured out, I'll start a thread in Lot Editor projects and try to get some feedback there as far as cars and general appearance.
Thanks again for the assistance.
hooha47,
First let me say that there are not enough good parking lots in SC4 so I APPLAUD YOU IN YOUR EFFORTS &apls
Second thing, I have no idea when it comes to making custom content but I wanted to state the obvious and make sure that you have residential in your test tile. If you do, you can ignore my post and just look at the first part for the great work you have done ;)
Thanks projectadam, you bring up a good point, since it's not obvious from the pictures. I have some residential development to the south of the parking lots, and industrial to the north, and the only way to get from one to the other is past the parking lots. Various other configurations I've tried have resulted either in cars and peds using the lots as a shortcut, as RippleJet mentioned above, or with nothing developing along the parking lots. This seems to me to have solved both of those problems, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
By the way, I love Ichigamin, I've been following the early developments.
Replying somewhat later than I normally would, due to real life vacation... ::)
It's not the configuration of the network enabling that determines whether you'll get commuters shortcutting.
It's the settings you have in the transit switch properties, especially the Transit Switch Point.
If you transit enable a lot in SC4Tool, it will automatically also become a station (transit switch).
If the station's Transit Switch Entry Cost is 0, sims can enter it on one side and exit it on the other side in no time.
As long as the number of commuters traversing it is lower than the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity,
sims will primarily take such a shortcut, rather than take the road alongside it.
The current jobs as seen in the query (78/80) is not the number of sims actually working in your building.
That is the actual capacity (78) compared to the maximum capacity (80).
The capacity is reduced due to desirability factors, and will never be the same as the maximum.
In order to find out the actual number of people working in there, you must indeed use the route query.
If that shows 0, then there is in fact nobody working there or having access to it.
I would urge you to use some non-zero entry transfer cost.. I think there is a thread to illustrate a good value for it.. seems it was 1/31 (perhaps a function of your transit simulator speed settings) but I don't know for sure. Parking lots are EXTREMELY susceptible to "lot hopping" and thus they become saturated with bypass traffic rather than the vehicles actually "parking" there.
RippleJet, don't worry about the late response, I've been on vacation myself. I appreciate you taking the time to help me. The testing I've been doing confirmed what you said about transit enabling the lot. But based on that, the "problem" is one that exists with any functional parking lot. As SC4BOY points out, the (at least partial) solution is to have a Transit Switch Entry Cost greater than 0. The parking lot that you created for me originally has a cost of 0.02. As it stands, cars are unable to shortcut the lot, only pedestrians. In my (admittedly limited) tests, the only time the lot gets shortcutted is when there is no other route. So my question is, does that 0.02 Transit Switch Entry Cost need to change with the size of the lot, or should it remain 0.02 regardless.
My other, unrelated question. I released a set of modular lots on the STEX (available here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results)). They consist of 11 lots, 6 entry lots, which are functioning parking lots, and 5 eyecandy lots. The problem is that the eyecandy lots have the no road access zot appearing when they don't have road access. My guess is, this is because they use the same parking lot building (with all the transit properties deleted), and thus have to have road access. I know I could redo those lots as parks, but I want them to appear in the same menu as the functional lots. My guess is that this is not possible, but I thought I'd check.
Again, thanks for any and all assistance.
About the residential, since we have been safely able to get rid of that street in front of the zonage arrows, but it can only be done a certain way (a way in which the exe was going to allow for an undone Maxis alleyway), I don't see why the same method could not be used for these parking lots.
This alleyway method should work for parking lots, if it can work with ped malls. Yes, someone else here, did actually accomplish doing just that. So if you zone a residential street first, leave room for a street in the back, but don't build that back yet, then let the residents grow on the street where the arrows are still facing it. As soon as they are all built, you then tear out that front street, and immediately put a street in the back. This is when you can build either ped malls or canals or parking lots in front, but ONLY if there is a street in the back or on the side. However, if something knocks down those residents facing off of the parking lot after, your doomed, because the street is now in back of where the zonage arrows were facing, which they all seem to start with the arrows in facing the street to build. As for houses, this method actually seems to work with medium and high wealth residential, I have not tried it with single family housing zonage.
Hooha, since I actually have some working lots like that looks like the first variation of those parking lots, except occasionally traffic will cut through them, can't remember who made them, anyway, its great to see some more parking lot variation options available eons later. I know you were saying about the car styles, but after those screens, I like what I see.
Quote from: hooha47 on August 19, 2009, 09:39:40 PM
As SC4BOY points out, the (at least partial) solution is to have a Transit Switch Entry Cost greater than 0. The parking lot that you created for me originally has a cost of 0.02.
Yes, luckily that's the way the "X Tool" makes them today! :thumbsup:
Quote from: hooha47 on August 19, 2009, 09:39:40 PM
So my question is, does that 0.02 Transit Switch Entry Cost need to change with the size of the lot, or should it remain 0.02 regardless.
Based on
CLR1SC4D's testing one single value would be enough, regardless of the lot size:
Quote from: CLR1SC4D on May 03, 2008, 09:05:32 PM
Surprisingly all stations had the same value that prevented most Sims from using the station as a shortcut 1.3435/Transit Speed.
Quote from: hooha47 on August 19, 2009, 09:39:40 PM
The problem is that the eyecandy lots have the no road access zot appearing when they don't have road access. My guess is, this is because they use the same parking lot building (with all the transit properties deleted), and thus have to have road access.
The reason they get that is that each lot provides civic jobs.
In order to get rid of the No Road Access zot, you need to delete the property
Demand Created.
HI Hooha yuppers I be the same as in patfirefghtr that did the BLaM Parking lot sets.... I am sorry I havent been back in here but RL has been harsh on me!! I do want to encourage you to keep going as some of the lots Ive seen are very good, don't worry about TE'ing it all just enough on some of them to give the apperance is good enough.... I do like your attempts there to have the shops and parking lots :thumbsup:
j-dub, that's all very interesting, I'll have to do some tests and see what I can figure out. Thanks for the information and support.
RippleJet, once again you have answered all my questions. I truly appreciate all your assistance.
Pat, I don't know what to say. I only know you from reading many of your posts, but I know from hanging around here what you mean to this site, and I know you are going in for surgery tomorrow, so the fact that you took time to stop by here and give me your support today leaves me speechless. You will be in my thoughts, and I hope you have a speedy recovery.
I have one more little question regarding overlay textures. I recall reading somewhere that you shouldn't have more than one per tile, but never heard an explanation why. I've also read about using Ctrl-D to use more than one overlay per tile. So the obvious question, is this a problem, and if so, why?
I have a thread under Lot Editor projects here http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8523.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8523.0) that should supplant this thread. Thanks again for all the support.
Quote from: hooha47 on August 20, 2009, 07:33:24 PM
I have one more little question regarding overlay textures. I recall reading somewhere that you shouldn't have more than one per tile, but never heard an explanation why. I've also read about using Ctrl-D to use more than one overlay per tile. So the obvious question, is this a problem, and if so, why?
You can never control in which order the overlay textures appear in the game.
Check this:
Question: Multiple Overlays on One Tile (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2411.msg72466#msg72466)
It's safe to use mutliple overlay textures only if they do not overlap each other.
Excellent. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thanks again for all your help. :thumbsup: