It's a large residential tower, housing 7100 $$$ residents. How did I do on the design? It's day only for now - I want to optimize the model before lighting it. One note: the lobby is unfinished.
EDIT: Scroll down for the up-to-date image.
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Great to see you over here Keisuke! I like the design of your tower :thumbsup:
You can do some very interesting night light effect with the flame shaped feature on the top of the building ;)
I see you use some dark textures for the windows so I suggest using some lighter textures for the window frames. This way they'll stand out more and add some more details to the facade.
You can also add some mechanical floors to the buildings. These floors contain HVAC units, water pumps, electrical switches and other stuff instead of apartments. Those floors are quite common on tall buildings and will add some more diversity to your model as well.
btw have you already experimented with the window texture tips I PMed you earlier about? When I read my PM back I realized I might wrote it a bit too quickly and simple. It took me quite a while to figure it out myself. So if you would like to have some examples just let me know :)
My main comment is it's very repetitive. Some life on the balconies, maybe some open windows, or a person or 5 on the balconies would break it up a little and provide some interest.
Are they solar panels below the fin? They seem a little out of scale, compared to the floors. I would have them about 1/4 the size and maybe 2-3 times a many. I like the penthouse floor (assuming that's what the double height is about :) ) but maybe having it smaller than the base, (either make the base larger or the penthouse smaller) would give the top better balance. It's also quite tall, not sure how it stacks up in game, but it might work well if you do a base for the lobby larger than the base again to give it more balance.
I noticed your nightlighting over at ST. The problem with it is that it wasn't random. There still was a pattern to it. To work well it really needs to be more random. I'm not sure how you are doing the night lights (and I'm by no means an expert anyways) but you might need to do a few different variations for each of the graduated floors.
Good to see you here and I hope you have more luck with the advice. ;)
It's a very bold design, reminds me of cerulean's bats. I agree with tag that a mechanical floor would add realism.
One suggestion to take for what it's worth--what about adding buttresses that somehow echo the glass shard to the base of the tower, rising up about a dozen stories, to integrate the tower with the finial? They would give it a more dynamic shape and give you a more interesting, elaborate base to develop. Futurist Gothic, if you will...
Not a lot I can add except it needs a base...buildings this size generally have a "lobby" that is slightly larger than the floors, both horizontally and vertically.
A great many of these are wonderful ideas which I plan to include. This is a stark contrast to the first site - which I'm not supposed to mention by name, where 80% of the replies were "your building sucks"/"your BATs suck"/"you suck".
QuoteI see you use some dark textures for the windows so I suggest using some lighter textures for the window frames. This way they'll stand out more and add some more details to the facade.
Wonderful idea.
QuoteYou can also add some mechanical floors to the buildings. These floors contain HVAC units, water pumps, electrical switches and other stuff instead of apartments. Those floors are quite common on tall buildings and will add some more diversity to your model as well.
Indeed they will - but how to externally differentiate them? I don't want an incongruous non-glass floor in the middle of the tower.
Quotebtw have you already experimented with the window texture tips I PMed you earlier about?
I tried it as I understand it, but the SimCity glass texture is rather poor - random colored rectangles overlaid on a small building from street level - making for a poor texture overall.
QuoteMy main comment is it's very repetitive. Some life on the balconies, maybe some open windows, or a person or 5 on the balconies would break it up a little and provide some interest.
That is an excellent idea, but how do I model people that don't just stand there, unmoving?
QuoteAre they solar panels below the fin? They seem a little out of scale, compared to the floors.
They are indeed solar panels, and you are right, they are rather large.
QuoteI like the penthouse floor (assuming that's what the double height is about
I intended it as a headspace for the elevator mechanics, but that is an even better idea for it. I guess I can claim that the elevator is a LIM system, and use the top for something else.
Quotebut maybe having it smaller than the base, (either make the base larger or the penthouse smaller) would give the top better balance.
I'll try that. Are you suggesting a pyramidal shape?
QuoteIt's also quite tall, not sure how it stacks up in game, but it might work well if you do a base for the lobby larger than the base again to give it more balance.
It's 60 or so stories, plus the fin. I will enlarge the lobby - that sounds like a good idea.
QuoteI noticed your nightlighting over at ST. The problem with it is that it wasn't random. There still was a pattern to it. To work well it really needs to be more random. I'm not sure how you are doing the night lights (and I'm by no means an expert anyways) but you might need to do a few different variations for each of the graduated floors.
What I did was array six floors - you probably saw the brightness wave pattern, which is 6 floors of decreasing intensity, then repeated -, delete a few lights at random, and array that upwards. It would take over three hours to delete them off the entire tower manually. Is there a program to do this?
QuoteOne suggestion to take for what it's worth--what about adding buttresses that somehow echo the glass shard to the base of the tower, rising up about a dozen stories, to integrate the tower with the finial? They would give it a more dynamic shape and give you a more interesting, elaborate base to develop. Futurist Gothic, if you will...
I don't know about Gothic, but that is one of the best stylistic ideas so far. I've already got an idea in mind.
QuoteNot a lot I can add except it needs a base...buildings this size generally have a "lobby" that is slightly larger than the floors, both horizontally and vertically.
Is 1.3x on X and Y axes large enough?
OK, I'll apply all of these I can, and post a new image then. Be back in between one and three hours.
RadicalOne,
Glad you liked the suggestions--very curious to see what you come up with--and I'm stunned at your speed :o
As for this:
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 28, 2009, 03:27:37 PM
but how to externally differentiate them? I don't want an incongruous non-glass floor in the middle of the tower.
Mechanical floors are a fact of life in very tall towers and you'd need at least one if this is 60+ stories, mid-way up the tower. They aren't glassed-in normally but rather louvered to let air circulate through the hvac equipment. It creates a dull stripe but adds realism. Google some images of large towers like the old WTC and you'll see they are banded 1/3 and 2/3 up the towers where the hvac floors were. (The WTC towers were so tall they were really three buildings, each with their own hvac systems, set on top each other and linked by skylobbies.)
Edit to add: looking at your design again, why not enlarge the finial/shard so that it extends to the edge of the tower and its framing transforms into a ridge that runs down the long sides, and then flares out toward the bottom to become butresses?
Quote from: gottago on August 28, 2009, 03:43:54 PM
I'm stunned at your speed :o
Speed? Response time, you mean?
Quote
Mechanical floors are a fact of life in very tall towers and you'd need at least one if this is 60+ stories, mid-way up the tower.
Yes, I definitely would.
QuoteThey aren't glassed-in normally but rather louvered to let air circulate through the hvac equipment. It creates a dull stripe but adds realism.
Louvered? As in external vents? That gives me an idea, one I'm borrowing from automotive technology.
QuoteGoogle some images of large towers like the old WTC and you'll see they are banded 1/3 and 2/3 up the towers where the hvac floors were.
I noticed those 2-floor (or so) tall bands. I wondered what they were.
Quotewhy not enlarge the finial/shard so that it extends to the edge of the tower and its framing transforms into a ridge that runs down the long sides, and then flares out toward the bottom to become the butresses?
That's a cool idea, but unfortunately, it makes the fin overpoweringly large - but I have a variation in mind. I'm also a bit concerned about building footprint - I want to fit a 3x4 lot. Though that's probably a quick fix.
PS
Guess what kind of animal I have sleeping in my lap right now... :)
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 28, 2009, 12:08:53 PM
It's a large residential tower, housing 7100 $$$ residents.
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 28, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
I want to fit a 3x4 lot.
Did I hear someone just mention a CAMeLot? ::) :)
Whatever the size and occupancy will be, let me know if you need help with the modding once you've come that far... ;)
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 28, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Guess what kind of animal I have sleeping in my lap right now... :)
Since I have a cat sleeping in the bed right behind me, I would guess you've got the same in your lap! :)
Quote
Whatever the size and occupancy will be, let me know if you need help with the modding once you've come that far...
I have the .sc4Desc set up already, from the previous iteration of Prism Tower condos. Copying its occupancy, pollution, and other stats should do fine.
Quote
Since I have a cat sleeping in the bed right behind me, I would guess you've got the same in your lap!
I'm afraid you are not even close. ;)
I'm glad you have made yourself at home over here! BTW , really like the Hyperspace Garbage Disposal! Yes , you will find a few differences between here and ST! ;)
Jayson
Quote from: sithlrd98 on August 28, 2009, 06:03:11 PM
I'm glad you have made yourself at home over here!
Turns out I already had an account, and since I don't remember it, it must have been over a year ago that I registered. I thought it odd when I got the "username taken" message, and then I realized when I got the "someone with that email is already registered" message.
QuoteBTW , really like the Hyperspace Garbage Disposal!
Thank you. Do you know Pegasus Productions (Pegprod, Pegadyne)? I have to credit him or her (no idea which) with the inspiration for that. My cities tend to accumulate a LOT of garbage, and when I needed 12 of those isometric edge dump chutes, I decided to do something about it, taking the idea one step further. Ironic that it still partly obeys the laws of physics - there really is a fourth spatial dimension, though it is folded up to the Planck length (1.6×10
−32mm), and is thus unusable for trash storage.
QuoteYes , you will find a few differences between here and ST!
Yes, this place is far better. The "high-level" people there spend more time "stroking their ego", as "CSGdesign" aptly put it, than helping others.
EDIT:
Here is the tower after applying the ideas. I
love its design right now - it looks a bit like a rocket. The buttresses were added - in the style of the fin, a mechanical floor was added - with openings to outside, to allow the HVAC system to operate nominally, textures were touched up - though the vertical support columns still look dark, being embedded in the glass -, and the lobby was expanded greatly. The only idea I didn't use was narrowing the top a bit - it made the tower look a bit...off.
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Noone has yet successfully guessed my pet's species yet... ;) Anyone want to try?
Here's a not-so-revealing hint: Her name is "Echo".
Maybe an Iguana..... or a Parot...
I really like the change, and yeah it does kinda' look almost like a rocket. Very nice indeed. Also I'd have to agree that I like your garbage disposal Lot as well... :)
Quote from: tamorr on August 28, 2009, 06:43:41 PM
Maybe an Iguana.....or a parrot...
No, neither of those, but you are so far the closest, with your first guess.
QuoteI really like the change, and yeah it does kinda' look almost like a rocket. Very nice indeed. Also I'd have to agree that I like your garbage disposal Lot as well... :)
Thank you very much.
I don't BAT so I can't give you much help with that! I also know that one of the biggest things you were catching heat from was the top of this building and the fact that you were aiming towards a futuristic look. I am sure that you are creating this as much for yourself as to share. Just remember that you have other towers and some of the ideas/concepts given that could also benefit those. That being said, since this is a skyscraper , maybe tone down the rocket look? Also , since the roof has limited space , maybe use 1 or 2 larger types of HVAC prop. The spire/crown is a unique touch , but is there any way to give the blueish color some type of transparency? Please understand do not know what your skill level is , but seeing the garbage disposing BAT, I think you can pull it off!
Jayson
Quote from: sithlrd98 on August 28, 2009, 07:05:59 PM
maybe tone down the rocket look?
The look will be fairly subtle, I think. When this building is nestled in between others - which will hide the lower fins, the most rocketlike part - it will probably look fairly normal.
Quotemaybe use 1 or 2 larger types of HVAC prop.
I should put some HVAC units on the roof. Thank you.
Quoteis there any way to give the blueish color some type of transparency?
I tried that in the very first edition of this building. Apparently, judging by my experiences with it, and according to the Simtropolis Forums - correct me if I'm wrong - transparency works fine if there's another object behind it. If not, it will render as opaque, with the rendering background adding in the missing alpha channel, darkening it drastically. I was using software rendering mode in the game at the time - I'm now using hardware - and I had the glass either looking invisible - (<50% opacity), or opaque and darkened (>=50% opacity). Is this still the case? I would love to have the fins be semitransparent, as per the original design.
Well, if it is sleeping in your lap, I'll go with a Bearded Dragon. Mine sleep anywhere I put them.
This is shaping up nicely, the lobby came together well. The spire still gets me wondering though; is it meant to be purely decorative, or does it serve a function? The framework around it seems very heavy; too thick. I am guessing this is a decorative feature, and it should look lighter, not top heavy. THe framework could only be .2 or .3 meters thick, and possibly a few .1 meter support cables... just ideas. I believe this could be made semi transparent in game, but am uncertain as to how. I know that some bats have been modded after rendering to make parts transparent, but have never done it myself. Could be interesting...
Quote from: SimGoober on August 28, 2009, 07:19:18 PM
Well, if it is sleeping in your lap, I'll go with a Bearded Dragon. Mine sleep anywhere I put them.
Think a different class of reptile.
Quoteis it [the fin] meant to be purely decorative, or does it serve a function?
It's decorative, though the framework (that runs down the sides of the tower) doubles as a sort of apparent reinforcement.
QuoteThe framework around it seems very heavy; too thick. I am guessing this is a decorative feature, and it should look lighter, not top heavy. THe framework could only be .2 or .3 meters thick, and possibly a few .1 meter support cables...
I'll look into thinning it - I thought it was thick too - but the cables make it look cluttered - I tried.
EDIT: I set it to .025 thickness for the glass, and twice that for the steel, and unfortunately, it looks paper-thin, ready to blow over, and yet still looks too heavy. I think a bit of "top-heavyness" in the appearance might be the price I have to pay for this fin - and I'm prepared to pay it. All things considered, it is a fairly minor thing, especially since thinning it only minimally helped.
QuoteI believe this could be made semi transparent in game, but am uncertain as to how. I know that some bats have been modded after rendering to make parts transparent, but have never done it myself.
My guess is that is has something to do with exporting the model, opening the .sc4desc in iLive reader, extracting the .fsh files, editing them, repackaging them, and continuing. Is this the case? I could probably do that, though I am dubious of the quality it would achieve. (If a tutorial exists somewhere - I'm searching with no success - a link would be greatly appreciated.)
I am thinking that the large fin at the top could be a edgy, provocative in a way, extreme solar panel. The texture doesn't look panel-ish but that could be changed - if you wish.
Also - the metal work holding the fin together looks like one large piece of stainless steel. Adding some detail like joins, flanges, or welds may add a bit of realism. If it were to be a solar panel... how about some wires running about or conduit etc. . .
I think that would give the fin some purpose, helps explain to the casual gamer what they are looking at, and make it easily accepted.
Good Luck . . .
I've put some HVAC units on the roof. A render will probably come tomorrow - it's 00:18 where I am, and, having put Echo to 'bed', I need to follow suit, given that I've been up since 05:00. /wrrd%& And Echo is a 1.2m Corn Snake, by the way.
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Quote from: jmyers2043 on August 28, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
I am thinking that the large fin at the top could be a edgy, provocative in a way, extreme solar panel. The texture doesn't look panel-ish but that could be changed - if you wish.
I rather like that idea. Transparent glass is still my preferred choice, as it was the original plan, and seems more streamlined, so I'll do everything I can to realize that objective. Failing that, I'll try the solar panel look. It sounds promising.
QuoteAlso - the metal work holding the fin together looks like one large piece of stainless steel...welds may add a bit of realism.
It's one unit, so welds are the applicable enhancement, but how to model them to actually be visible? Already some of the smaller details - like the small solar panels' actual cells - are too small to see.
QuoteIf it were to be a solar panel... how about some wires running about or conduit etc. . .
The panel texture I have has the small wires, and it is certainly likely that in real life, the large wires would be inside the main steel joists. At least, that's where they put the lighting power cables on the top of the Telus building not far from where I live. (Light blue, dead center.) I apologize for the image size and page overflow. I don't know how to resize it with IMG code alone.
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Hi there, RadicalOne,
Glad to see you on these forums. I saw your latest creations on the STEX and I really liked them :thumbsup:. You show great BATting potential. You made the right choice coming over here, because, like you said before, comments here at SC4D actually are constructive. Best of luck and I'm eagerly waiting for your first releases on the LEX.
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 28, 2009, 03:27:37 PM
I tried it as I understand it, but the SimCity glass texture is rather poor - random colored rectangles overlaid on a small building from street level - making for a poor texture overall.
Yeah I was already expecting that. It took me ages to find something that looked nice in the game and I'm still struggling with it ;)
Here's the texture I used for the RNP Properties building I made. Dunno if it will fit your building well as it was made for a 2x2 building with only 26 floors But you'll get the idea. I use only one texture for all the windows, than I select all the windows and give them 1 UVW map.
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I usually make those textures in zoom level 3 in SC4.
btw, I love the new look of the tower. The mechanical floor and the wings work out very well :thumbsup:
Changed the thread title to something a bit more appropriate for the content :thumbsup:
Wow, seems I've missed a bit since yesterday...
Firstly people, you can't really model them to be not static, but that's not a huge problem really. People aren't usually going to stare at a building long enough to be worried about that, and most do know the limitations ;). Additionally, as this is Resi I would suggest a lot more stuff on the balconies. Seats, clothe lines, bikes, anything you can think of. Bear in mind the level of detail isn't high, so a lot will get blurred, but it will be seen enough to break the building up. ;)
Secondly, I like what you have done with the lobby and penthouse. Works quite well. As for the lift overrun, no one said the whole area had to be penthouse. Lifts only need a box slightly bigger than them for over run and if the penthouse was also the top level of the tower below it could serve as both.
Finally, the opacity of the fin. There are a couple of things you need to know here. When a normal render is output anything more than 50% see through will become invisible and anything less that 50% see through will become solid. There was a trick using the reader to change some setting which will make them show as intended, but Cogeo has developed a tool to Automate this. Search for SC4 Model Tweaker on the LEX I think.
A couple of things you will notice if you do a practice on this though is that the item is darkened due to it rendering with the black background and then being 50% see through. The way around this is to change the rendering environment to something close to your Fin colour so when it renders it doesn't change colour and when it becomes transparent it will show correctly.
Hopefully that wall of text isn't too much for you. Looking good.
QuoteHere's the texture I used for the RNP Properties building I made. Dunno if it will fit your building well as it was made for a 2x2 building with only 26 floors But you'll get the idea...I usually make those textures in zoom level 3 in SC4.
I'll download that one just in case, and you have pointed me in the right direction on how to make textures. Thank you.
QuoteI use only one texture for all the windows, than I select all the windows and give them 1 UVW map.
That's a good idea.
QuoteChanged the thread title to something a bit more appropriate for the content
Good idea, though I can't help but find the current title a bit awkward...
QuoteFirstly people, you can't really model them to be not static, but that's not a huge problem really.
Good point, but I tried and am unable to texture a human.
QuoteAdditionally, as this is Resi I would suggest a lot more stuff on the balconies. Seats, clothe lines, bikes, anything you can think of. Bear in mind the level of detail isn't high, so a lot will get blurred, but it will be seen enough to break the building up.
I'll do that.
QuoteWhen a normal render is output anything more than 50% see through will become invisible and anything less that 50% see through will become solid.
Yes, that's what happened when I tried.
QuoteThere was a trick using the reader to change some setting which will make them show as intended, but Cogeo has developed a tool to Automate this. Search for SC4 Model Tweaker on the LEX I think.
Oh, thank you.
QuoteThe way around this is to change the rendering environment to something close to your Fin colour so when it renders it doesn't change colour and when it becomes transparent it will show correctly.
That would do it - but how to change it? I can't find any options to that effect...
EDIT:
I can't preview render if I have too much detail - so I have a number of lawn chairs on the balconies, and that's it for balcony props.
Anyways, these are the changes made so far:
1. Balcony "junk" was added, including bikes and chairs. People were too difficult to texture.
2. Some textures were repaired, but I'm having trouble with the reflection texture - the building won't map it properly, and I need to set the UVW to something small, like 12x12x12, or I end up with pixelation, no matter the texture size.
3. The vertical support columns were enlarged and thus visibly lightened, as they are no longer completely embedded in the glass.
4. The fin material was made transparent, as yet only applicable in preview renders - I won't go for the patching program until after the model is complete.
5. The roof was rearranged, with 2 large HVAC units added.
6. The mirrored floor tiles in the lobby were given a better texture.
Here it is:
Please note that the fin transparency is currently unfinished, and ignore those tiny specks to the right of the fin - image transmission error.
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nice tower I really like it :)
Much better. I like the transparent fin. Yeah, people are quite hard to model. I believe at ST or Simpeg are some basic people models that you could use. Bear in Mind a standard Sim is about 6 pixels in a BAT render. ;)
There is a post somewhere about changing the rendering background, I'm trying to find it with no luck. It's only a month or so old so will link it if I do.
Edit: I discovered how to do it. Go to Views, Viewport Background and change the background colour to the one you want.
When I saw your uploads over at ST I thought here's someone who's new to BAT or has been working in isolation just creating stuff for themselves. It was obvious you've got some great ideas - especially as you're coming up with the designs rather than copying real-life buildings - but that you're BAT technique couldn't fully realise them.
The progress you made while reworking your residential tower is fantastic - it looks so much better than the original and I imagine you've learnt quite a lot in the process.
I hope you'll take what you've learnt and rework some of your other models. I think one of them was a hospital (red and white building), which was an interesting shape and could be worked into a really good building.
Oh, and finally, welcome to SC4 Devotion :)
Quote from: zero7 on August 30, 2009, 03:30:46 AM
When I saw your uploads over at ST I thought here's someone who's new to BAT or has been working in isolation just creating stuff for themselves.
You are partly right. Believe it or not, but all of those things that were (past tense) on the STEX have been in my system for over a year; I was indeed mostly creating them for myself.
QuoteThe progress you made while reworking your residential tower is fantastic - it looks so much better than the original and I imagine you've learnt quite a lot in the process. I hope you'll take what you've learned and rework some of your other models.
Yes, they certainly need it. As soon as this one is complete (is it?), I'll light it, get a green light on that, and move on to another. My Dyson Sphere Antenna is probably next in queue.
QuoteI think one of them was a hospital (red and white building), which was an interesting shape and could be worked into a really good building.
Yes, that one was perhaps my worst in terms of modeling quality. The problem is I make (or perhaps made, past tense) my addons more for necessity - a large capacity medical center in this case - than for showing off the model.
QuoteI discovered how to do it. Go to Views, Viewport Background and change the background colour to the one you want.
No, that's not it. All it does it change the viewport color. Not the render background color.
EDIT:
Well, this thread's sister thread on the other SC4 Site - which will remain unnamed - came to a rather dramatic - for a forum - termination; I walked out in disgust.
Some people expect too much in some forums, as for me I look at how I would use any Lot I DL in game, and judge quality at the level of the author. It doesn't take a whole lot to please me, unless it happens to be something that is truly unrecognizable for the function intended. There are even exceptions to that in my oppinion, like Future, Past, or Fantasy like buildings.
I definately like what you've done with this, and glad you were able to sort out and learn a few things as well. I am still only a beginer to BAT, so I don't know a whole lot. However I am good at math and geometry, as well visualization beyond 3D. I may have a sight for it, but not the skill yet to impliment what I invision into BAT. It is nice to see more and more people BAT or well at least trying to use the program.... :)
Quote from: RadicalOne on August 30, 2009, 07:14:18 AM
No, that's not it. All it does it change the viewport color. Not the render background color.
For me it does both. I've just tested it with a crappy render and it works fine.
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OK, I got it working.
Transparency is complete.
Here it is - with transparency included - is it ready for lighting?
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This really has come a long ways. Looking very good!
One minor tweak I might suggest playing with. The top "crown" appears to be sitting on top of the building, not anchored well. I was thinking that the outside frame for it could be "bent" a little to line up with the ouside of the building. Can't tell from this angle how the side looks, but that bottom fin at the bottom could be a solid line up the side? Then the frame for the sail up top blends right into it?
Just soimething to play with.
Quote from: SimGoober on August 31, 2009, 07:36:14 AM
One minor tweak I might suggest playing with. The top "crown" appears to be sitting on top of the building, not anchored well. I was thinking that the outside frame for it could be "bent" a little to line up with the ouside of the building. Can't tell from this angle how the side looks, but that bottom fin at the bottom could be a solid line up the side? Then the frame for the sail up top blends right into it?
What you are suggesting is essentially the same as one earlier in this thread. I really liked this idea, and tried it. Unfortunately, it made the top fin overpoweringly large. A derivative of that was in fact the source of the thick steel shaft that goes down each side (zoom in really close between balconies, you'll see it as a dark shape), and later, the lower fins. Much of the detail on this building is small - look closely, and you'll see the steel runners on either side of the base of the fin that become the vertical shafts. As I said on the other thread before I left, a structure as large as this fin would have steel joists going into the roof several meters into the building's support columns. Which is impossible to see normally, but should be visible (highlighted along with the side shafts) in this image. Keep in mind the main support columns, which the joists fuse into, have been hidden here to expose the fin's foundation.
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Hi there, I've been wrangled over here to offer some help ;D
Nice building! My only comments are that the crown is a little too big.
I'd be interested to see a slightly closer look at the balconies if you have one. The texturing looks a little bland from this zoom, and the technique merjin pointed out for texturing windows is time tested and true, though I create a different texture for each building and like to throw some abstract funky light streak type things an generally dirty them up just a tad in photoshop. (I wrote a tutorial on this somewhere .. years ago .. dunno if it is still around).
I like the proportions of most of the building though. The top is a little big imo though. Another big thing I just learned about as I am actually taking modeling classes at the moment, is beveling edges with just 1 extra plain can really go a long way towards making the lines of things like that crown stand out. To do this you would go into the model's sub object mode. You would need to put on a Edit Poly modifier most likely to get there. Select the edges, and 1 of the options on the right should be chamfer (not bevel .. 3ds seems to call camfer and bevel the same thing in different places ..).
My advice would be to take your time, and really play around with some things for your first big release. One thing you will learn in the long run is that updating is a major pain .. and in fact, most times it's not worth it, no matter how much you would want to teak some aspect of it.
Do I see 6 spotlights aimed on the crown? Oh I can't wait to see a preview ;D
And I agree with Joe (Cerulean), always take your time. I know that your first uploads are very exciting and you can't wait to share it (I had that at least and I still do have it) But it's always worth to try different things with your building and see how it looks. Maybe you end up with something cool and you can use it successfully on future projects as well. ;)
I use the B.A.T so don't worry. The fin has to go or needs better support. I mean, like add some buttresses or a tree type sturcture before adding that fin, you know? So it still needs more refinement and textures and such before the final product is finished. For nightlighting, all I can tell you is get more nightmaps or use omni lighting for those light poles and such. It gives more life into the building. But for the base, I can give you this: &apls &apls &apls :thumbsup:. Good work! &scl()
QuoteI'd be interested to see a slightly closer look at the balconies if you have one.
How's this?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh240%2FRadicalOne%2FPhotobucket_deleted.png&hash=af27c444eddf1cef8d3c56f77516229b862f2cfc)
QuoteThe texturing looks a little bland from this zoom, and the technique merjin pointed out for texturing windows is time tested and true, though I create a different texture for each building and like to throw some abstract funky light streak type things an generally dirty them up just a tad in photoshop. (I wrote a tutorial on this somewhere .. years ago .. dunno if it is still around).
I don't know about dirtying it - I like the clean "utopian" look for everything - but the texturing is indeed bland; I still have poor textures. Here are all of them:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh240%2FRadicalOne%2FSC4%2FTextures.png&hash=ac18edc92ad8e46c8fdd4c0c2e71f52282da8cd4)
Unfortunately, I have real trouble with the UVW mapping of a tower-wide texture. I get pixelation unless I make the UVW something very small, and then I have the cityscape repeating...
QuoteThe top is a little big imo though.
I'll try shrinking it.
Quotebeveling edges with just 1 extra plain can really go a long way towards making the lines of things like that crown stand out.
I'll certainly do that; it sounds like it might do quite a bit.
QuoteDo I see 6 spotlights aimed on the crown? Oh I can't wait to see a preview.
You do, but I'm going to finish the model before I activate those.
QuoteThe fin needs better support. I mean, like add some buttresses or a tree type sturcture before adding that fin, you know?
I have two ideas for this. One, I can add two more (one on each side) perpendicular struts that go from where the "center" solar collector is to the top of the fin's skeleton.
Two, I can use another idea from the inspiration for the design of this fin. This fin was inspired by aquatic fins and insect wings, so, in the style of the latter, I can run it through with smaller veins.
The first is (much) easier, but the second will look better, I think. Which sounds better?
QuoteSo it still needs more refinement and textures and such before the final product is finished.
Oh yes, I definitely need better textures. See (and laugh at) my textures above.
QuoteFor nightlighting, all I can tell you is get more nightmaps or use omni lighting for those light poles and such.
I have the NDEX nightmap set - It didn't do too much good over my nightmaps. I have a promising lighting idea (based on omni lights) for the main tower, and the lighting for the fin is already complete.
Actually, I liked your original fin version with the radiating cones, but maybe instead of a single glass finish you could use something lighter like metal joints or a lattice, with or without glass, in the likes of this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi232.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee249%2FDebussyman%2Faleta.jpg&hash=7c4fcf9b170c288de8836677e02eec5d313be66d)
Plant life is the hardest thing to model. Not sure how subdivided the hedge geometry is but I would suggest using edit poly and varying it up a little. While it's possible the hedge would be well maintained there is likely to be some dying, some overgrown etc. This would again break up the repetition of the building.
I'm not going to comment on the spire as there are better qualified people than I who already are, but it is a very large piece of glass so maybe making it look like a series of smaller pieces (maybe mounted on a lattice inside with glass on both sides) would look more realistic.
Quote from: DebussyMan on August 31, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
Actually, I liked your original fin version with the radiating cones, but maybe instead of a single glass finish you could use something lighter like metal joints or a lattice, with or without glass, in the likes of this.
And that's why I come to this forum. A wonderful idea. I'm going to try using your interconnection lattice idea, seeing how well it fits the existing fin. In all likelihood, it will.
PS
the original idea was not radiating, but rather parallel cones.
QuotePlant life is the hardest thing to model.
You have that right. Most places, even in professionally made games (RollerCoaster Tycoon 3, 18 Wheels of Steel, etc) usually use a series of flat sheets textured with a plant. This is why I just used a boxy shape, given that such plants tend to be ornamentally shaped anyways.
QuoteNot sure how subdivided the hedge geometry is but I would suggest using edit poly and varying it up a little. While it's possible the hedge would be well maintained there is likely to be some dying, some overgrown etc. This would again break up the repetition of the building.
Wonderful idea. The hedge was not subdivided at all, but it is a quick fix. Unfortunately, the hedge almost certainly would be artificial on such a building. As was pointed out on the other forum, runoff would damage such a building. But there must be a way to differentiate some of them. I just have to find it.
Lol... pictures are worth how many ideas??? Here is my "concept" I was trying to explain, with a few of the other ideas thrown in....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F7872%2Fradicaloneidea.jpg&hash=fcdbbc6a0ad31ee1ec8ca3a3672782a5bc95407c)
Quote from: SimGoober on August 31, 2009, 04:05:50 PM
Lol... pictures are worth how many ideas??? Here is my "concept" I was trying to explain, with a few of the other ideas thrown in....
That is indeed what I tried - the only difference being I kept the fin's aspect ratio as I scaled it; The fin looks funny - as in stale food funny - when it's deformed laterally. Though a variation on that lattice is indeed being used.
I'm currently working on the ideas outlined in my two most recent posts above.
EDIT:
I've added a lattice to the fin, one whose design was inspired by a yellowwing darter dragonfly wing.
I also varied the hedges a bit. Some are dead or dying - some apparently decided that they wanted real ones, which wouldn't survive well - and a few are tattered, exposing their burlap core, for reasons I'll leave others to speculate. I must confess that I find this change aesthetically ugly. &mmm
Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to chamfer/bevel the outer edge of the fin's external frame. If anyone can help in this regard, it would be greatly appreciated.
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QuoteI can't figure out how to chamfer/bevel the outer edge of the fin's external frame.
Do you use gmax or another modeling program?
Hello Radical ...
How to add a bevel to an edge using the chamfer tool
1. I made a 5X5X5 box.
2. Right click and select/convert the box to an 'editable poly'
3. Select 'edge'
4. Select the edge you wish to bevel.
5. Select the chamfer button
6. Then select the amound of bevel. In this case I chose 1.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2Fchamfer_01.jpg&hash=df10eb061dba8769d2582cf54aea55193bd80cef)
The results
1. The box with one edge beveled.
2. This will work with complex shapes like a tube. In this case I selected the outside edges. Could have selected the inside edges .. but what the hay!
3. The result
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2Fchamfer_02.jpg&hash=8e1a2a2edec99d9f44838ab4aa9a2a66ccbb7411)
BTW - I like the honey comb affect. It's probably the best thing you've done with the fin. I hope you are able to give the supporting metal work some visual interst as well.
Good Luck.
<edit>
You can do all sorts of radical things. I made this 2X2X10 box and chamfered every other edge.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2Fchamfer_03.jpg&hash=46015b5ece6f78b686001fa681b3524365536ffc)
When I convert it to a poly - it started as an editable spline - nothing changed. I can't "select > edge".
Does the object have a thickness? Otherwise you won't be able to bevel it. When you edit the poly there should be 5 red icons in the modify panel, a series of dot, some lines... I don't remember the rest, the second of those is edge.
You may have good slightly overboard on the hedges, but in the right direction, just dial it back a bit. The brown one wouldn't be uniform brown, mix some brown patches into the Green texture so it doesn't stand out so much. And the dying ones, more leaves with hints of the burlap.
A much quicker way would be to use the LOFT tool... Two shapes are required, the first being the cross section of the frame and the second the shape of the frame itself.
This is for 3dsmax but the tool is the same for GMAX
http://www.youtube.com/v/QaXFzyYG_Jg&hl=en&fs=1&"
QuoteDoes the object have a thickness? Otherwise you won't be able to bevel it. When you edit the poly there should be 5 red icons in the modify panel, a series of dot, some lines... I don't remember the rest, the second of those is edge.
Yes, it has a thickness. I'm having a problem editing the poly at all. Those part select options in the box at the right don't appear.
QuoteYou may have good slightly overboard on the hedges, but in the right direction, just dial it back a bit. The brown one wouldn't be uniform brown, mix some brown patches into the Green texture so it doesn't stand out so much. And the dying ones, more leaves with hints of the burlap.
Excellent ideas. That will certainly fix the odd look that it currently has.
QuoteA much quicker way would be to use the LOFT tool... Two shapes are required, the first being the cross section of the frame and the second the shape of the frame itself.
I have a vague idea what loft is - I did use AutoCAD for several years when I was in high school, and SketchUp at home more recently - but that one in the video is powerful. I'll definitely see how that does.
EDIT:
It definitely works, but for some reason only the backfaces are drawing on the resulting shape.
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 01, 2009, 07:30:20 AM
EDIT:
It definitely works, but for some reason only the backfaces are drawing on the resulting shape.
You need to select all the faces and invert the nomals.
Quote from: Diggis on September 01, 2009, 08:14:31 AM
You need to select all the faces and invert the nomals.
Ah. Gmax is a bit unusual with the normals. In most of my 3D programs - ZModeler, for instance - normals control shading only; both faces always draw.
The other option is to check the 2 sided option in your material. What I'm not sure of is WHY it's flipping the normals.
There is a flip normals check box in the loft options, check this isn't on by mistake.
Quote from: Diggis on September 01, 2009, 08:21:08 AM
The other option is to check the 2 sided option in your material.
I'll do that instead - it seems more comprehensive, and less prone to error.
QuoteThere is a flip normals check box in the loft options, check this isn't on by mistake.
It's not - and since I didn't change it, it never was - but for some reason it's not making them backwards anymore.
EDIT:
It has now started to draw them on odd angles...no big deal; the resultant objects can be rotated.
The new frame is done - and looks much better, and the hedges have been made more attractive. An image is currently rendering.
R1 great progress here :thumbsup:
Re: the fin and chamfers, here's a suggestion sending it in a different direction (and doubtless no less difficult to render): how about setting light channels along the outer frame, a bit like those genius chevrons on the crown of the Chrysler bldg? Great for all those nightlights fans out there and a different way to functionally detail the frame of the fin. 2 cents, fwiw
Quote from: gottago on September 01, 2009, 09:21:47 AM
Re: the fin and chamfers, here's a suggestion sending it in a different direction (and doubtless no less difficult to render): how about setting light channels along the outer frame, a bit like those genius chevrons on the crown of the Chrysler bldg? Great for all those nightlights fans out there and a different way to functionally detail the frame of the fin.
You've given me an excellent idea. Has anyone seen the - rather old - film "Tron"? I noticed that a great many objects in that film, both digital (like the craft thing), and real (like the ENCOM heli) have some neon framing to them. I was using this idea in 18WoS as well, and I think it would look very nice here.
Here is the building's top few floors, and a visualization of the night neon framing I have in mind; how is it, and how would I do it?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh240%2FRadicalOne%2FSC4%2FTop_overhaul8pt5pt5.png&hash=ba1edfb5ac8695a59a1082c3b74b3e2c3760eba2)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh240%2FRadicalOne%2FSC4%2FTop_overhaul8pt5pt5_ngt.png&hash=9643817568a6a67b0b04076db255f190d945e4db)
Glad you liked the idea!
I have no idea how to do it, but as for how the mockup looks: I'd not light the horizontal baseline, but would outline each triangular panel but would not connect them with neon (those little link-stubs). The outer frame may be better with just one strip going down the middle, seeing as you have a lot of overlap on the left (receding) side as it is now. 2 more cents ;)
Quote from: gottago on September 01, 2009, 10:00:23 AM
I have no idea how to do it, but as for how the mockup looks: I'd not light the horizontal baseline, but would outline each triangular panel but would not connect them with neon (those little link-stubs). The outer frame may be better with just one strip going down the middle, seeing as you have a lot of overlap on the left (receding) side as it is now.
Yes, your idea sounds better. Still, how to achieve it?
Making Neon in one color is a simple process.... Making it in multicolors is enough to make you dribble and speak gibberish.
One color can be "cheated". Make a line or such that is .1 meter or thick, the shape of the neon you want. Texture it to make it blend in to the area you want (ie the metal frame). Then make it have nitelites; choosing a color nitelite that looks like the color neon you want. Fairly simple, with a catch. You can't have more than one color nitelites in GMAX, so you can't have different color neon, and you can't use the nitelite textures for windows; you'll have to light them with Omnis or such.
Multi colors in a short version : make a similar shape, but make lights that shine only on them in the colors you want. This is a tedious and time consuming process which leaves many people speaking words which should not be mentioned in public....
Quote from: SimGoober on September 01, 2009, 05:35:31 PM
One color can be "cheated". Make a line or such that is .1 meter or thick, the shape of the neon you want. Texture it to make it blend in to the area you want (ie the metal frame). Then make it have nitelites; choosing a color nitelite that looks like the color neon you want.
I should have thought of that. I'll do it immediately.
QuoteYou can't have more than one color nitelites in GMAX, so you can't have different color neon.
True. I'll just use the Argon Blue.
QuoteYou can't use the nitelite textures for windows; you'll have to light them with Omnis or such.
Seeing the results when I
did use the nightmaps, I'm going to stick with Omni lighting. I have an in-progress plan for that.
QuoteMulti colors in a short version : make a similar shape, but make lights that shine only on them in the colors you want. This is a tedious and time consuming process which leaves many people speaking words which should not be mentioned in public....
Yikes; I'll stick with Argon Blue. :-[
EDIT:
I've added a helipad, as a building of this size would almost certainly have one. As the pad would almost certainly be intended for medical helicopter landing, should I add the Medical Helicopter Gnome (the tag that allows one to spawn there) to it later on? It would mean being allowed to drive the Medical Heli without a Medical Centre, assuming that Prism Tower has grown at least once. Or is there a way to have a nondescript heli spawn there instead (and if so, can it be U-Drivable?)
Where are you putting the Helipad.... as I see a large fin in the way on the roof. :P
Also, if you are planning on having the helicopter spawn there you need to have tight LODs over the HeliPad.
Also, I have noticed that you replace your images a lot. I would suggest leaving them there as it gives people an idea of the creative process as you work through.
Quote from: Diggis on September 01, 2009, 11:16:57 PM
Where are you putting the Helipad.... as I see a large fin in the way on the roof.
I removed four solar units from the south side, and relocated the HVAC unit closer to the fin. The center of the helipad is a safe four or five meters from the fin.
QuoteAlso, if you are planning on having the helicopter spawn there you need to have tight LODs over the HeliPad.
Please explain.
QuoteAlso, I have noticed that you replace your images a lot. I would suggest leaving them there as it gives people an idea of the creative process as you work through.
I do that to save photobucket space - I am using the account to store images for addons for multiple games. I can stop replacing them...at least until I
do run out of space.
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 02, 2009, 07:21:31 AM
I removed four solar units from the south side, and relocated the HVAC unit closer to the fin. The center of the helipad is a safe four or five meters from the fin.
Glad I'm not flying in there.... thats not much space for error, added to the fact the Fin would cause havoc with the winds. I would suggest the helipad's not the best idea in this case. &mmm
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 02, 2009, 07:21:31 AM
Please explain.
I'm going to assume you aren't super familiar with the way the game renders on to the LODs here. Best way to understand them is to open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files. Play with the rotation and see if it makes sense. Essentially it projects the image you rendered of your model and projects it onto the LOD. The helicopter spawner will look for the top of the LOD for it's height. You can move it lower down but unless your roof is projecting onto the TOP of the LOD it'll look funny. I can't explain more at the moment but if you are still lost I'll post tonight.
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 02, 2009, 07:21:31 AM
I do that to save photobucket space - I am using the account to store images for addons for multiple games. I can stop replacing them...at least until I do run out of space.
Totally up to you, I was just saying it's not necessary but if you have your reasons. :P
Quote from: Diggis on September 02, 2009, 07:38:20 AM
open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files.
psssst..... S3D :thumbsup: :D :D
Quote from: Diggis on September 02, 2009, 07:38:20 AM
Glad I'm not flying in there.... thats not much space for error, added to the fact the Fin would cause havoc with the winds. I would suggest the helipad's not the best idea in this case.
Perhaps. Given the complexities this is introducing, I might well scrap it.
QuoteI'm going to assume you aren't super familiar with the way the game renders on to the LODs here. Best way to understand them is to open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files. Play with the rotation and see if it makes sense. Essentially it projects the image you rendered of your model and projects it onto the LOD. The helicopter spawner will look for the top of the LOD for it's height. You can move it lower down but unless your roof is projecting onto the TOP of the LOD it'll look funny. I can't explain more at the moment but if you are still lost I'll post tonight.
I've done that S3D file examination before, but I am lost as to what you mean by "tight LOD".
I would skip the Helipad as well. Not only because of the wind issues but because of the amount of visual interest on the top of the building. The new fin design looks wonderful and will be a great eye catcher on your building. I think you should keep the rest of the roof quite simple with the normal stuff like the HVAC units and solarpannels you use now. An Helipad will make the roof a bit to busy I think ;)
As for the LOD's, normally you hit the button and BAT creates the 3 LODs for the building. These LODs are simple boxes in which your building will fit. If you play around with props in the lot editor you'll notice that props will disappear when they're too close to your building. This is because of the LOD's. With complex building where you would like to add props within the area of the LOD box, you can model your own LODs. By modeling the LOD very close to the edges of your building you can add props on places where they would normally disappear. Hope that made some sense :)
Quote from: tag_one on September 02, 2009, 08:24:22 AM
I would skip the Helipad as well. Not only because of the wind issues but because of the amount of visual interest on the top of the building. The new fin design looks wonderful and will be a great eye catcher on your building. I think you should keep the rest of the roof quite simple with the normal stuff like the HVAC units and solarpannels you use now. An Helipad will make the roof a bit to busy I think ;)
Done.
QuoteAs for the LOD's, normally you hit the button and BAT creates the 3 LODs for the building. These LODs are simple boxes in which your building will fit. If you play around with props in the lot editor you'll notice that props will disappear when they're too close to your building. This is because of the LOD's. With complex building where you would like to add props within the area of the LOD box, you can model your own LODs. By modeling the LOD very close to the edges of your building you can add props on places where they would normally disappear. Hope that made some sense
Ah. Does the LOD have to be a rectangular prism? Or can I have a complex LOD?
No, the LOD doesn't have to be a rectangle, but only use a complex LOD if it's needed. The more faces on the LOD the more drain on the game there is.
Quote from: Diggis on September 02, 2009, 08:42:19 AM
No, the LOD doesn't have to be a rectangle, but only use a complex LOD if it's needed. The more faces on the LOD the more drain on the game there is.
OK...I'll use a two-tier rectangular prism LOD. Nine external faces.
Any particular reason you want tight LOD for this?
Quote from: Diggis on September 02, 2009, 09:11:11 AM
Any particular reason you want tight LOD for this?
I want to be able to place a few props (blinking lights, etc) on the roof and fin.
knock, knock... %confuso
well, that's nasty me...
Anywho... I wanted to comment a bit on the neons...
Actually there is a way to have as many colors for neons as one may want. Plus to have full nightlibrary type (some also call it truNite , although it is somewhat erroneous) in GMAX BAT. Although it wouldn't be possible to get all the bells and whistles tha t3DS Max offers things like Global illumination etc... but some of the glory of it's nite view could be achieved in GMAX as well. And it isn't all that difficult either.
What would need to be done is to have a duplicate of your scene. Like in early versions of truNite there will have to be two exports followed by some manual insertions and renaming. Luckily these actually don't take much of the work.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi059.radikal.ru%2F0909%2Fb8%2Ff640b83a9588.jpg&hash=eaf3f8e581d097d3475030b4f543e8b786a7f408)
So basic procedure is as follows:
1. Use your current scene as a day one. Remove any nite elements from it. This step isn't strictly necessary, but it will speed up export. If it is too much of a work to hunt all of them down you may skip it
2.Save a copy of it. This will give you night views that will finally appear in the game. Make sure that you have called it something like *_night, so that you could easily identified night view model later on.
3. In this Night Scene add any neons, textures even different model element you what to be seen at night make material self-Illuminated:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi070.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F5d%2F1c3e14c11206.gif&hash=c5d7633618bb865a2527199db28e87445d0db6e7)
note that defuse color must be pure black. this way your self-illuminated mats will be un-reactive to light. This will garantee best looking results.
4. Make sure that you name the all elements that you have assigned self-illuminated materials to have night_ or nitelite_ prefix. This will make sure that whey will be masked out for the night view.
5. Export your day scene.
6. Export your night scene.
7. Open Night scene model in iLive Reader. Select all night FSHs (those taht have "8" in the Instance ID as fifth digit). Copy them.
8. open you Day scene model in iLive Reader. past night FSHs into it. If you leave ti like this night views will not show in the game, as your Night view FSHs have different Group IDs as your day ones. So you will have to re-name them.
9. This re-naming could be very quickly and easily accomplished in iLive Reader:
Go to Tools -> TGI Editor.
Select all the newly pasted FSHs files. They'll be grouped together by Group IDs, something like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi001.radikal.ru%2F0909%2F45%2Fd1725ae8fc76.gif&hash=be6d134046ec5138c9620ecceba273cc9381697d)
leave Type and Instance IDs masked out (leave # in those fields) and type or paste in the group IDs value of your day scene model.
That's it!
Now you'll have your night view exported separatelly show up in game.
Few notes.
This is an approximation of the truNite process. Since it is only approximation it has few limitations and not quite as good as what is realized in automated truNite exported in Bat4Max 2.6HD. Main issue is that mask created in GMAX is brightness based (converted form a color). This means that some of the colors, particularly those in red spectrum will not be quite as well preserved as others. if you look carefully you'll notice that red letters here not quite as brightly glowing as green or blue:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi059.radikal.ru%2F0909%2Fb8%2Ff640b83a9588.jpg&hash=eaf3f8e581d097d3475030b4f543e8b786a7f408)
But this is the best that as far as I can see could be done.
Quote from: SimFox on September 03, 2009, 06:58:07 AM
Actually there is a way to have ans many colors for neons as one may want. Plus to have full nightlibrary type (some also call it truNite , although it is somewhat erroneous) in GMAX BAT. Although it wouldn't be possible to get all the bells and whistles tha t3DS Max offers things like Global illumination etc... but some of the glory of it's nite view could be achieved in GMAX as well. And it isn't all that difficult either.
This is an approximation of the truNite process. Since it is only approximation it has few limitations and not quite as good as what is realized in automated truNite exported in Bat4Max 2.6HD. Main issue is that mask created in GMAX is brightness based (converted form a color). This means that some of the colors, particularly those in red spectrum will not be quite as well preserved as others. if you look carefully you'll notice that red letters here not quite as brightly glowing as green or blue:
I've seen that process outlined before - though never so thoroughly - and it is indeed an amazing one. Unfortunately, I almost certainly cannot export twice, especially if I'm to export on the "high quality" setting. One - zoom 5 - preview day render on "Low" quality took more than 30 minutes. One full render could easily take several - up to 9 - hours at this stage.
PS
The fact that red is dimmer is not a problem. Not only is red rarer than the other colors for nightlighting - especially for mine - but red is usually dimmer anyways.
EDIT:
I can't get good looking night lighting. I tried both Omnis and spots inside the transparent windows, both of which fail to light the interior of the building, making the windows still look dark. Worse, all of the light spills onto the balconies, making for solid white...
nitelighting is an art more than a science. Yes there are certain techniques that give specific results, but how you use these techniques is what defines the final outcome. To play with nightlighting, there are several threads here and on SimTrop which give ideas, but here are a few brief points :
1 - Cast shadows. This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls. It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.
2 - Attenuation settings make a big difference. This tells the renderer where to start the light and where to end it. So it only shows up on the objects within that range.
3 - Intensity : lights outside of an object usually light up well at about intensity 1.0 (default). Objects behind opaque textures (glass) need more intense lights to show through. THe intensity will vary depending on how opaque the texture is (30% .. 60%.. ) and the colors of the textures used. I usually find that 1.75 works well behind glass, but it varies a lot.
4 - Play with it. Make a small model of a simple shape, and play with the lights. The only way to really see what happens is to do a preview render, and this can take several minutes on a larger model. So experiment on a "scrap" model annd see what happens.
In the end, don't let the nitelites stress you out. THey look great to present your work to the world, but the average player rarely actually looks at them in game.
QuoteI can't get good looking night lighting.
You and the rest of us. :angrymore: Welcome to our pain. :D
QuotePlay with it.
Everything thing that Goober said is good advice. Especially the last.
I dislike doing the night lights. Probably because it is not an exact science. Or - probably I don't know enough about it to make it an exact science. Certainly for the beginner it is the hard because is both difficult and tedious.
Gmax can basically be like this. Make a wall; make a window with glass, frames, and sills. Texture this, that, and the other. Add a door to your wall and then add a light so that the Sims can find their way at night. Easy as pie so far? Now come the night lights. Bat your spot or direct onto the model. Do a render. Adjust some parameter, do another render, change it because you went too far, do another test render, not right yet, ARGH! etc. From my perspective? Night lights are the hardest thing to get right nor my favorite part of batting.
Good Luck.
Quote from: SimGoober on September 03, 2009, 07:26:04 PM
nitelighting is an art more than a science.
Quote from: jmyers2043 on September 03, 2009, 08:26:25 PM
It is not an exact science.
That can't help...I am one who is used to exact answers, or at least exact groups of probabilities which can be determined by a series of procedures.
Quote1 - Cast shadows. This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls. It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.
I always have that on - yet I still get weird bleed effects.
Quote2 - Attenuation settings make a big difference. This tells the renderer where to start the light and where to end it. So it only shows up on the objects within that range.
3 - Intensity : lights outside of an object usually light up well at about intensity 1.0 (default). Objects behind opaque textures (glass) need more intense lights to show through. THe intensity will vary depending on how opaque the texture is (30% .. 60%.. ) and the colors of the textures used. I usually find that 1.75 works well behind glass, but it varies a lot.
These two tips should be extremely helpful.
Quote4 - Play with it. Make a small model of a simple shape, and play with the lights. The only way to really see what happens is to do a preview render, and this can take several minutes on a larger model. So experiment on a "scrap" model annd see what happens.
I do a variation of this - I hide the upper majority of the model, which prevents it from rendering, light a few floors, and test that. If it works, I array that up the tower.
QuoteIn the end, don't let the nitelites stress you out. THey look great to present your work to the world, but the average player rarely actually looks at them in game.
In that case, if all else fails - though I think progress is being made via the attenuation tools - I'll just use nightmaps.
Quote from: SimGoober on September 03, 2009, 07:26:04 PM
1 - Cast shadows. This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls. It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.
Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't use GMAX, but you would need to have the shadow settings set to Raytrace Shadows to get it to throw light through a semi transparent object wouldn't you?
Edit, Maybe not... could have sworn that was the case... Can someone clear that up?
Is there a structure inside for light to reflect off? All light requires a surface to bounce off to be visible, if this doesn't exist, the light will not either.
Good point Cal. That one has gotten me on several occasions. If the building is hollow.... what does the light reflect off of?
Raytrace? lol... Never really played with that in all these years.... %wrd
For bleeding, make sure the seams between pieces are tight. Light can get through the smallest cracks sometimes....
Quote from: SimGoober on September 04, 2009, 04:35:27 AM
Good point Cal. That one has gotten me on several occasions. If the building is hollow.... what does the light reflect off of?
Quote from: callagrafx on September 04, 2009, 01:06:19 AM
Is there a structure inside for light to reflect off? All light requires a surface to bounce off to be visible, if this doesn't exist, the light will not either.
I figured that out, right at the very beginning. There is a carpet floor and interior walls to light.
QuoteFor bleeding, make sure the seams between pieces are tight. Light can get through the smallest cracks sometimes....
They are tight.
OK, I have got the interior lighting working, but I'm getting glare on the outside faces of the windows...
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 04, 2009, 06:40:17 AM
I figured that out, right at the very beginning. There is a carpet floor and interior walls to light.
Some people use old poster (http://www.posterclassics.com/index.html) and other pictures to put on the floors.
Quote from: vester on September 04, 2009, 06:48:20 AM
Some people use old poster and other pictures to put on the floors.
Carpet does fine, and I would think it more realistic to have a colored carpet than a picture on the floor.
Quote from: RadicalOne on September 04, 2009, 07:41:32 AM
Carpet does fine, and I would think it more realistic to have a colored carpet than a picture on the floor.
A picture may give the impression of furniture...
Check
this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=991.msg36216#msg36216) for one example.
It's all about trickery mate ;) The posters really are the best way to go, and makes it look like there is stuff in there. Alternativly you could paint blocks on your carpet texture like Prepo has with his tiles.
Quote from: Diggis on September 04, 2009, 07:54:27 AM
Alternatively you could paint blocks on your carpet texture like Prepo has with his tiles.
I can probably add objects to the carpet texture. That way I get the best of both worlds.
EDIT: I tried, but it made a repeating pattern.
I managed to fix the glare on the windows. Unfortunately, that meant dulling their gloss.
EDIT 2:
I am making real progress on the lighting, but I'm encountering a weird problem: light leaks through the walls in random places, places which are identical to the ones where light does not leak. >_< Before anyone asks - the lights
are set to cast shadows.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh240%2FRadicalOne%2FSC4%2FProblem.png&hash=b65acc7052315a0b904082c37ce92d5bef52ddac)
Anyone have any idea?
EDIT 3:
This thread seems to have suddenly gone dormant...why?
EDIT 4:
I've completed the lighting. I was, unfortunately, forced to use the nightmaps for the majority of the tower. Standard lighting would
not work properly, always leaking everywhere.
Thus, I am now exporting the model.
EDIT5:
13 hours so far...I obviously can't go through this every time I want to export...
Jesus - it took "131733" seconds to export the model! Over 36 hours!
FINAL EDIT:
It's done.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2F296601%2F22489%2FSTEXDay%255FNew%252Ejpg&hash=4e843e83c4eb1144d11f6d8bf3748e27d6f626d2)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2F296601%2F22489%2FSTEXNight%255FNew%252Ejpg&hash=16d829c8bee1feb9f30e188219a1c88e7e751d4a)