I have had an issue now and then pop up with CTD's.. usually related to some evolutionary issue in the lots used. I have a city tile that I developed some time ago.. perhaps 3 years. I'm using basically the same (plus added.. but all old ones are still supported) plugin as I had before. I now have CAM loaded, but I doubt it would have anything to do with this issue. I'm not looking for a FIX but for ideas on how I might clear the issue.
This is a large city tile, but has very little on it.. a lot of MAPP (amusement park tiles) with an older version of NAM and some pedestrian tiles and a small population and business base.. the whole population is in the 10-20k range. It has an island and is kind of a tranportation crossroads, so it has a web of highways and rail including bridges and a ferry (maxis). This is the problem:
There is an area of land that is many many tiles away from anything else. I can do whatever to the area without problems, however there is an area of about 10x 20 tiles that if I do any terraforming in those tiles, the city will CTD.
Has anyone found this to happen before? Any ideas about how to "save" the city tile? I have deleted all the old network stuff like highways and rails and rebuilt them... doesn't seem to matter. Any change in the general area of the circle over to over the highway tunnel shown below crashes everytime.. nothing else in the city seems to matter (though I have not literally tried every lot).. but I've done a fair amount of play in the tile.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg41.imageshack.us%2Fimg41%2F9159%2Fcrashtile.jpg&hash=fffe469e0e1391ddf6fa4e3966d2aaa75aa79407)
Are you using a different slope mod to before?
Thats quite a slope the highway to make.
:satisfied:
TTC
Quote from: TheTeaCat on September 24, 2009, 05:40:20 PM
Are you using a different slope mod to before?
Same one as before.. it's not as steep as it looks in that pic.. but it is steep.. however ANY TERRAIN change.. not dealing with roads in any way.. would crash it..
edit: Hmm.. now I think on it, I was using the HSR which had a slope mod, but its possible that there was no slope mod on the roads, etc. I am using one now.. you suppose that would make a difference for terraforming? I will take the slope mode only out and see if that seems to be responsible.. my mod is fairly mild compared to some, but much stricter than the maxis requirements.
Ok, here's what I was able to do.. I completely removed my plugins files and loaded pure SC4Delux. Of course when I did that I got a notice of lots of stuff missing.. and many brown boxes, but I accepted those. Then I did all my terraforming and linked the rail and highway (part of which is not visible above). All worked fine without crashes. Then I saved and re-entered the city with all the plugins as before. The areas of the MAPP now look like I got the prop pox (ewwwww) but I expect when I re-plop those it will be just fine.
Here's a pic of the city without plugin
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F6372%2Fcrashtile1.jpg&hash=ba65e697a5a7f21afd982fcec60e1efd4981c4e0)
Here's the pic after reloading hte plugins
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F4321%2Fcrashtile2.jpg&hash=31a7f7feb88c88a761563a63c647e4487db7123b)
And here's the final layout of the area in question
If I tried to replace the plugins and do just the highway/rail work even after doing the terraforming prep work without the plugins, it still will CTD.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg41.imageshack.us%2Fimg41%2F8874%2Fcrashtile3.jpg&hash=f8891c78b8035ee4aa8b13eb7ce928de80b28ca9)
NOTE: The city STILL will CTD if I try to terraform that area of hills over or to the left of the rail and highway tunnels.. dunno why.. :) Otherwise as far as I can tell the city will work fine.. I have not replopped the MAPP tiles yet. If anything odd happens there I'll post again.
Are you using or have you used any custom terrain mod?
Quote from: SC4BOY on September 24, 2009, 05:57:09 PM
I have not replopped the MAPP tiles yet. If anything odd happens there I'll post again.
Rather than replopping, you could try
this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7264.msg260661#msg260661). :)
Quote from: RippleJet on September 25, 2009, 12:43:19 AM
Are you using or have you used any custom terrain mod?
No
QuoteRather than replopping, you could try this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7264.msg260661#msg260661). :)
Will do when I get a moment.. wonder if that may remove whatever shadow is cast on the terraforming too... :)
Alright I think I did what you suggested in the linked thread.
1. I set the visuals (monitor thingy) to all minimums. Saved and exited to the region (I did not exit the game)
2. Reloaded the city and reset the visuals to all max, saved to region and reloaded. It did not as far as I can see make any difference.
Here's the "after" pic (compare to the "pox like" view above)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg24.imageshack.us%2Fimg24%2F2341%2Fcrashtile4.jpg&hash=14faf69d4a9233293e9ae644b5a885b5e271e780)
Quote from: SC4BOY on September 25, 2009, 01:25:37 PM
It did not as far as I can see make any difference.
Oh, that's a pity :(
Just to make sure...
you did have all prop packs in your plugins when setting the city details back to high?
Quote from: RippleJet on September 25, 2009, 01:42:00 PM
... have all prop packs in your plugins ...
Yes.. however I noted an interesting thing. I redid the above but exiting SC4 entirely and re-entering. What I found is that when I reloaded
the settings had not actually changed. it reloaded exactly as it had been since early in the game (region start?)
I expect then that the whole thing suggested in
the other thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7264.msg260661#msg260661) will be required to repopulate the lots by following the rather tedious path suggested by Diggis.
It could be that there is another way to force this "file overwrite" but I don't know what it is.
Quote from: SC4BOY on September 25, 2009, 02:14:07 PM
...found is that when I reloaded the settings had not actually changed. it reloaded exactly as it had been since early in the game (region start?)
In following up, I found that the settings made in CITY MODE are applied for viewing, but not saved with the game. In order to get the settings saved to the city tile in the save you
must set and save the settings in the REGION VIEW. If you do this then it will properly save the city tile in the "changed resolution mode". [
edit: Diggis questioned this "save in city vs region settings issue. I retested it and he is right.. it doesn't matter.. don't know what I got confused, but apologize if it confused others.. ;) ]
I did of course do this to further verify the above and indeed it turned out the same.. ie the props did not seem to be repopulated just with a min/save/max cycle. The longer procedure seems to be required.
OK, I think I may have a reason for your CTD when terraforming. It seems that if you have some God Mode trees in the city and they are no longer in your plugins then the game will crash when it's terraformed. I've just had this problem on a city during testing.
Quote from: Diggis on February 14, 2010, 06:01:58 AM
OK, I think I may have a reason for your CTD when terraforming. It seems that if you have some God Mode trees in the city and they are no longer in your plugins then the game will crash when it's terraformed. I've just had this problem on a city during testing.
Interesting discovery. Not sure what you mean (or rather how to correct it). I do have the pine trees used for god-mode trees. Are you suggesting that taking that out would correct it? Or are you suggesting finding and deleting "old" god mode trees (ie before I put in the pine trees) would fix it?
Nope, the opposite. At some point you have likely planted some god mode trees and they are no longer supported with the controller you are using, or they are missing from your plugins. I haven't looked deeply into this yet, it was just a chance discovery which is likely to be your problem. I'll start a separate thread for people better at this sort of thing to look into and hopefully we'll find the problem there, but my guess is you have either changed you're tree controller or have removed some tree exemplars that are for trees you have planted.
Quote from: Diggis on February 14, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Nope, the opposite. At some point you have likely planted some god mode trees and they are no longer supported with the controller you are using, or they are missing from your plugins. I haven't looked deeply into this yet, it was just a chance discovery which is likely to be your problem. I'll start a separate thread for people better at this sort of thing to look into and hopefully we'll find the problem there, but my guess is you have either changed you're tree controller or have removed some tree exemplars that are for trees you have planted.
I'll have to check out the history of this (this is rather an old thread) but I KNOW that the ORIGINAL city was done with no custom tree controller and the "problem" situation to my knowledge also had no special "controller" (not sure what you mean by this, nor how I might recognize one if I looked at it.. I normally don't use any "terrain mods" including trees, just added the PEG PINE on a whim) when I went back in and found the "crashing" problem. However it IS possible that I had added the PEG pines just prior to that.. I'll have to look at old saves and see what I can discover here..
I am very interested in helping with whatever we can discover here even though it really isn't an issue with me anymore.. it is a topic of interest. No one had an idea on this before, so I welcome whatever we can find out. Recall that I said that if I take all plugins out, I can go in and modify the terrain without it crashing. Of course that produces a whole new set of problems. :(
I noted a guy over on ST that just posted having a problem very similar to this.. wonder if he may offer something.. I'll go revise my answer over there to him and see what he has to say.
As a later note (I didn't see your other thread you started.. perhaps you can post a link here if you have one). I downloaded the "Maxis Region" from the maxis site for no particular reason other than it is pristine "Pure Maxis" and has 3 cities in the "C city, I city, R city" style which I never use.. so I thought would be interesting.
Anyways, it absolutely gives me terraforming CTD's with my set of plugins so it is an interesting case. I just tried it this morning with all plugins removed except for the NAM and indeed I can terraform it without CTD's so you may be onto something. It will be sweet if I can zero in on the cause of this so I know how I might attack this issue in the future if I have one. I will play further with this city as time goes by to see if I can zero in on the issue. This would suggest however that it is NOT specifically the "removed controller" issue but rather a conflict perhaps with a controller. How do I know this? Because I never planted a tree there, and the region is as I stated "pure maxis" .. :)
oh.. the guy over on ST never replied so I have no added info from him.
edit 2/24: I just was reviewing the notes above and see that the crash city (that started this thread) has NO Peg Pines (there is no controller, but I believe that pine is designed to replace all god mode trees) and from the pic where the city is crashing there are Peg pines in the scene. The pic's where I did the "no plugins" and "plugins" I note that there are no pines, so the mod was added after I initially had the crashing problem but before I documented the crashing that I did add the pines.. This would SUGGEST that at least that mod has no effect on it.. but as I said I'll get back to some experimenting with it when I get a chance.. :)