Maxis R$$$ Lots

[cogeo]

I'm posting again about a "problem" (well...) I had experienced in the past, with the Maxis R$$$ lots, growth stages and some inconsistencies (to my perspective).

My point is that you cannot control development by using the zone density, due to inconsistencies and the way these lots are modded. For example, 2x3 and 3x2 R$$$ lots require medium-density zoning, although the buildings are clearly low-rise, and the lots quite spacious; this is because their growth stage is set to 4, despite that the zone LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property is set to 0x01,0x02,0x03, which means all three R zone types (it seems that the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property can only restrict the zone types a lot can grow on - the growth stage vs zone density rule applies as well).

Let's have a small analysis. R$$$ buildings in SC4 fall into four categories (low to high density):
- Mansions
- Palazzos
- Condos
- Highrises
In general, mansions are considered low-dnesity, palazzos and condos mid-density, and highrises high-density, and the zone types and growth stages to some degree, but there is another "rule" that is applied: buildings can also grow on higher-density but smaller lots. Eg mansions may grow on mid-density 2x2 lots, while condos may grow on high-density 2x2 lots. Now let's see how this affects zoning and development:
- If you want mansions on 2x3 and 3x2 lots you need to zone medium density. However, such lots can also grow palazzos and condos.
- Similarly, mansion on 2x2 lots require medium density too, but these can also grow palazzos.

So I would suggest the following changes:
- Make all 2x3 and 2x2 lots with mansions stage-3, so that can also grow on low-density lots.
- Make the 4x3 and 3x4 stage-3 lots stage-2. These lots are 2 and 3 times larger than the 2x3 and 2x3 ones respectively, so it wouldn't be right to have all these at stage 3; btw stage 2 has some 4x3 and 3x4 lots too, with a somewhat (but not significantly) lower building value, however this is much more consistent.

Things to remain unchanged:
- Palazzos are all stage-5 and grow on 2x3 and 2x2 lots (or maybe make the 2x2 ones stage-6 ?).
- Condos are all stage-6, and can grow on lots 2x3 or larger.
- Some condos grow on high-density 2x2 lots. It's OK, there are no highrises to fit in 2x2 lots, plus condos in 2x2 lots look really densely arranged (though they aren't very tall).

I think these changes do make sense, so I would suggest that they are included into CAM. I have already changed the 2x3 ones, and I'm going to change the 3x2 and 2x2 ones too - this is for personal use, but I would like to see them into CAM as well.

Other things that I think should go into CAM:
- The Opera House Fix.
- Change the requirement to get the marina reward from 20% water coverage to 5%. 5% may look too little, but it actually isn't: a major river or medium-sized lake into the city tile rarely covers more than 5% of the total space; also, in a large city with only a "corner" covered with water, 5% of the total area is a square 58x58 tiles large, ie perfectly valid to build a marina. If you do not like this, could you please tell me which script enables the reward, and if it's OK to make a mod to "override" the original script (or both scripts will run?).

Thank you in advance

[cogeo]

Sorry for bumping, but it's a long time since I posted this and I got no replies.

For your info, I have made all the changes I mentioned above, for personal use. The changes are:
- Stage-4 2x3 and 3x2 mansions have been changed to stage 3.
- Stage-5 2x2 mansions have been changed to stage 3.
- Stage-3 3x4 and 4x3 mansions have been changed to stage 2.
- Stage-5 2x2 palazzos have been changed to stage 6.

So controlling development by using the zone-density feature is now much more possible:
- If you want mansions, zone low-density (lot sizes 2x2, 2x3, 3x2 and bigger).
- If you want palazzos and condos zone medium-density (lot sizes 2x2, 2x3, 3x2, 3x3, 3x4, 4x2, 4x3). 2x2 can only grow palazzos (not condos), while 3x2, 3x3, 3x4, 4x2 and 4x3 can only grow condos.
- If you want highrises zone high-density (lot sizes 4x2, 4x3 and 4x4).
- Condos may also grow on 2x2 high-density lots.
- And of course, all lots requiring a certain zone density type to grow, may grow on higher-density lots too (this wasn't changed, if you are wondering).

I think this is much more consistent now. The only thing this setting cannot control is growth on medium-density 2x3 and 3x2 lots (these can grow both palazzos and condos), but I think this is the best that can be done, as the game's zone density-types are three, while the building types we have to control here are four. Furthermore, it's not very much important, as palazzos look a little like "small condos". And there's still some distinction, palazzos are stage-5 while condos are stage-6.

If you want to include this mod into CAM, or if someone wants it for personal use, I could make it available to you.

Thanks for reading

[RippleJet]

I haven't ignored you, Cogeo!
I just haven't had much time to look into this in detail during my vacation and travelling...

If you want to include this mod into CAM, or if someone wants it for personal use, I could make it available to you.

Yes, I'd love to take a look at it, and most likely include it in CAM 2.0.

[cogeo]

I have attached the mod at the end of this message.

You may want to check the Maxis R$$$ lots in simcity_1.dat to see how the whole thing is setup (use the Navigator tool in the reader, or any other browsing tool).

The lot names haven't been changed, only the "Growth Stage" property.

[HappyDays]

Let's see...

Maxis Mansions: Capital! Already added to my plug-ins folder. <3 bleeding edge.

Opera House Fix: While I agree it should be included, I should add that the capacity for the Opera House could stand being larger than what is in the current fix. It is still possible to make the Opera House go overcapacity in a super huge city (4+ million). For instance, I increased the capacity to 250k...cost should also be increased, of course.

(But, thinking about it, I feel it should come as an optional thing...few people routinely make skyscraper cities like I do)

Private School sliders, while we're on the subject, could also prove a good addition.

Marina: The reward script is this (LUA file at location 33356 in SimCity_1.dat):

a = create_reward_cityplanning('03970000')
function a.condition()
   if ( not missions_completed( { '4c17326e'} ) and ( game.g_city_r2_population   + game.g_city_r3_population < tuning_constants.MARINA_POP or game.ga_mayor_rating < tuning_constants.MARINA_MR or (100*256*game.g_water_tile_count/game.g_city_tile_size) < 25)) then
      return [[text@abf42d84]]
   else
      return reward_state.AVAILABLE
   end
end

I am not entirely sure what you change in this to have your desired effect. If you understand math better than I do, you'll probably stumble through it...but if not somebody will hopefully assist.

[cogeo]

Opera House Fix: While I agree it should be included, I should add that the capacity for the Opera House could stand being larger than what is in the current fix. It is still possible to make the Opera House go overcapacity in a super huge city (4+ million). For instance, I increased the capacity to 250k...cost should also be increased, of course.  ...few people routinely make skyscraper cities like I do

I favour the idea of a (yet) higher-capacity Opera House. I don't care so much about plop cost of buildings, maintenance cost is the key. And this is adjustable, so it shouldn't be a problem, even for players with smaller cities.

Private School sliders, while we're on the subject, could also prove a good addition.

Yes, and the coverage slider is of much greater importance imo. Incresing capacity, and then... adjusting it... with the slider, not only would be funny, it would be also be sort of a cheat, as the building is a reward, and cost free. Maybe it would be best to leave capacity as is, and modify the UI query (put only the coverage slider). If the city gets very dense, then the player could decrease coverage, until attendance does not exceed capacity (of course. the areas no longer serviced should be serviced by another school). It would be interesting to see how these lots. behave with the (hypothetical) "Bus Funding" always 0.

Marina: The reward script is this (LUA file at location 33356 in SimCity_1.dat):
I am not entirely sure what you change in this to have your desired effect.

Thanks for your help! This should be easy to change now, just replace that 25 with 5 (I would even consider a value of 4).

[HappyDays]

Yes, I meant the maintenance cost for the Opera House, not the plop cost. Private Schools, that's exactly what I was thinking myself.

<Makes note to clarify better in the future>

You're welcome. I'm glad I could help with the Marina.

[RippleJet]

It would be interesting to see how these lots. behave with the (hypothetical) "Bus Funding" always 0.

It wouldn't work...
I tried that with the private schools, both with the schools cost and the bus cost.
For any slider to work, it has to have a non-zero funding.
It can be very small though.

[Indisguise]

One BIG! problem with changing plopables, specially rewards and civic services:



 you change it and open any city that doesn't have that mod to it, WILL CRASH TO DESKTOP.
Might take a short time or possile as soon as short as soon as you open the city, not sure if when the city draws stats from the lot or if you query the lot of even hover above it sometimes.


Even if the ploppable is edited differently or had original stats and you open the city it, WILL CRASH TO DESKTOP.

If you save when exiting  the city and save or  DOH! you plop the new building down in the city with the other lot still there and save the city, The city is a throw away! it will crash everytime!.


\

you need the lot modded exactly to when the city is saved, go through the city and demolish all the old ones, save and exit game, , then add the change, re-open game and re-plop the new one. That or all regions played from then on would have to new regions or ones that had those two exact mods. speaking of the toracos' opera house fix and ripples priv, school funding mod, (Personelly I use both my cities would work not everyones would).

Believe this will happen with other plopable mods as well or the majority of them.


  Not to metion all the slider bar to zero issues, or possible imortal lot issues that be a pain in the arse, specially if you had a  MD  :thumbsdown

growables can be edited and the city will take on the new stats. can be unheathly for a city but workable

Stick to growables

[HappyDays]

You make a good point! I can't believe I missed that fact!

And even if it doesn't crash, you'll run into phantom slider bugs up the ying yang.

[SC4BOY]

Personally I don't even think its of importance. If a private school is overcrowded there is no consequence. Further whether you "adjust" its coverage or not, you can always overlay other schools and reduce the load on the private school it seems to me. I've never had an overcrowded private school cause any problem whatsoever ... and I've certainly had them..   Private school enrollee's are not exclusive to private schools and "rejects" will be "taught" by other schools. In fact they seem to exist happily in overcrowded schools. For that purpose they seem to still be "teaching" and still for "free". I haven't investigated this in detail, but this is based on observations of this specific situation.