Two LE Questions

[mrbisonm]

I have got two LE questions, first: I have the CAL  (BSC CAL Small Boats Vol01) propfile in my plugins and therefore logically I have the props available in the LE......but...they only appear in the proplist and as blue rectangles on the right plopscreen in LE and nothing can be seen on the upper left lotscreen....How is that possible?
Am I missing something? See picture below...



Secondly, Could someone please explain in details what the Threshold and Elevation Change in the LE do and how they work? Both these things I never bothered with, but now I'd like to know. Thanks in advance.

[Simcitler]

I'm not completely sure about your problems, but I'll try to help.

1^st one
most of the ship props are offset props, as you can see in the prop list. Try to zoom out of the lot, then you will probably see your boat props, somewhere out of your lot. Some of the props are offset by 113m, which means that they appear about 7 tiles away from the blue rectangles! 
Try to use the non offset props on smaller lots.

2^nd one
Those two propertys determine the chances of your lot to be build on slopes.
The lot min/max value define which is the minimum/maximum slope on which your lot can be build.
For example: if you set the LotMax value to 40 (as it is in your pic) the lot will only grow on tiles with a slope change smaller than 40. You won't see you lot on tiles with an higher slope change. If it is an ploppable, you won't be able to place the lot on tiles with an slope change > 40; The preview lot will remain red!

I'm not completely sure about the threshold, but I think it determines the way your lot is build on certain slopes. e.g. retaining walls, foundations, ...

Maybe somebody knows more about!

~Simcitler

[mrbisonm]

Thanks, you were right about the first. They're simply offset and I didn't realize that.
For my second question: So, if I enter 100 for the max value in the elevation change, I should be able to plop the lot anywhere on a mountainous map, right? Even the steep ones?


Btw, what's the difference between a Retaining wall and the Foundation?

Thanks Fred

[Lowkee33]

So, if I enter 100 for the max value in the elevation change, I should be able to plop the lot anywhere on a mountainous map, right? Even the steep ones?

Very much so.

This is the elevation change across the lot, meaning your 1x1 could be plopped as long as that one tile doesn't have an elevation change of more than 100.  Most places I consider plopping need a slope of less than 16.  Growables I have now (Thanks to JM) are set to values like 2 and 3 for max slope.

Btw, what's the difference between a Retaining wall and the Foundation?

There is actually another foundation, the Building Foundation.  This appears underneath the building whenever there is a slope.   If it is custom, looks quite nice.

Say you had a lot with Min Slope = 0, Foundation Threshold = 20 and Max Slope = 40.

At slopes of >0-20 you will see a building foundation, textures oriented to the slope, and crazy looking props.

Slopes 20-40 will have either a Lot Foundation or a Retaining wall.  These make the lot flat, but create an ugly wall (going down for foundation, and up for retaining wall) around the lot.  I don't know how the game decides to use which.

[mrbisonm]

Thanks Lowkee33 for the explanation, much useful.
What is the maximum for lotmax elevation change? Is there more than 100?
I suppose that 00.00 is the minimum, right?

Thanks

Fred

[Lowkee33]

I would guess that the Max would be 10,000,000.  You might be able to just remove that property.

Slope in SimCity is never considered less than 0, so no need to worry about that.

The thing I don't know is this:  Looking at the lot in LE, you will see the square that represents the building.  Does the Min/Max slope consider the whole of the lot (the 1x3, 2x2, etc tiles) or just the position of the building on the lot? 

[mrbisonm]

I would guess that the Max would be 10,000,000.  You might be able to just remove that property.

Slope in SimCity is never considered less than 0, so no need to worry about that.

The thing I don't know is this:  Looking at the lot in LE, you will see the square that represents the building.  Does the Min/Max slope consider the whole of the lot (the 1x3, 2x2, etc tiles) or just the position of the building on the lot? 

10,000,000....nah, I don't think so....If 0 is flat ground then I suppose 100 is a 90 degree angle, which is the maximum we can achieve in terraforming....then again, there is some slopes where nothing can be plopped on, even with 100....wonder why. I got some free time this coming week, I probably will try out all kinds of things with min/max elevation max.

Fred

[JoeST]

I think by 10⁷ he meant that was about the max that could be inserted, rather than the maximum sensible value. Cliff's probably have rather large change.

[Lowkee33]

Joe is correct.  If you have a 1x1 lot and give it a max slope of 1, it will only grow/plop when the tile you placed it on has an elevation change of 1 or less from one side/corner to the other.

The main constraint, I would say, is the Building's foundation (the custom one that I mentioned earlier).  If your foundation is 5 meters deep, you don't really want your lot to be on a max slope of more than 5.  There is also lot size to consider.  The slope is "per tile" meaning that it would make sense for a 1x3 lot to have three times the Max Slope as a 1x1.

I set the Lot Foundation property higher than the max slope, I don't like the way it looks.  If a building doesn't get uploaded with a custom building foundation, then I will spend the time making one.

Just guessing here, but cliffs are probably near a slope of 20-24.  A slope of 16 would be a 45 degree slope (having gone up 16 meters in 16 meters).

You may want to set plops higher (especially for underwater where the slope is only a problem).  I have growable 1x3 lots that I have a Max Slope of 4, and this may be a little high.

[mrbisonm]

So if I want to use a textured 1x1 lot on the very steepest slope in my city, I will have to put the elevation value to 10,000,000 Max? Will it then plop?
Sounds kinda complicated to me, but somehow I understand what you mean, not knowing how exactly though.....lol

I think I've got to try that ingame first to understand completely. Unfortunetly don't have the time at the moment, but like I said earlier, I will later this week and do all kinds of experiment with elevation, foundations and threshold.

Fred

[Lowkee33]

So if I want to use a textured 1x1 lot on the very steepest slope in my city, I will have to put the elevation value to 10,000,000 Max? Will it then plop?

.  Without a doubt.

This number is the elevation change on that one tile.  Even the most jagged terrains of SimCity you wont need this value over 6000 (because no maps go that high).

100 aught to be more than enough to never have a problem.  32 is well into cliffs, so there is probably no problem there.  Values like 4 are pretty close to realism, but even that is pretty steep for real life.

[mrbisonm]

Thanks Lowkee, I guess I just discovered something new to me.....lol. In my first CJ on the STEX (2003 or 2004) , Nexis of Genesis, I created the works and construction of a great hydro dam and I was looking for perfect textures to plopfor the walls, but finally I couldn't create a lot that I was able to plop to the walls of the dam. Since the BAT was not available at the time, I just had to leave it be and I made a very small dam which wasn't looking too well anyways.
I will try that again this week and see if you're right with a value of 6000...

Thanks for the tip, appreciated and opening maybe new horizons to me.

Fred

[Lowkee33]

No problem

And if your plop flattens the land you would want to increase the Max Slope Before Lot Foundation property.