Occupant Size Question

[tamorr]

I was wonder should any Lot have two Occupant Size properties in the prop exemplar? I found a file that has two listed, but wanted to be sure that if I delete one that it is correct in doing so. One of the Occupant Size matches the other props that use the same model, and the other separate Occupant Size in the property with a value is close to, but different from the other props that use the value...

  So is it ok to delete the extra one that doesn't match up with the other props that are the same?
I am refering to timed props and one of them in the group of time props is done that what. Same prop, but different time for each in the group.

[BarbyW]

No exemplar should have two Occupant Size properties. As this is something you discovered in a pack which is not on the LEX and you have also asked at Simpeg maybe you should wait for a reply there instead of asking again here.

[tamorr]

Alright... Thanks for your time.... But What is the Occupant Size exactly anyway...? At least tell me that please.

Sorry bout that, I'll Search here about that.. And thanks again.

[RippleJet]

If any property appears twice in an exemplar, only one of them would be used.
Thus, always delete the superfluous one, if there are two of them.


Since the Occupant Size is the property you need to edit if you want to create a lot suffering from the immortal lot syndrome
(and that is something you do not want to do),
I feel an explanation of it and a warning might be suitable here, regardless whether you've had it explained elsewhere or not.

The Occupant Size property is added by Maxis' PluginManager when creating a plugin for the game from a custom batted model.
It contains three values (usually called reps), representing the X, Y and Z measurements of the bat.
X and Z are the width and depth of the bat (in metres), whereas Y is the total height (in metres) of the bat.

When placing a plugin (building or prop) on a lot (in LotEditor), the values in the Occupant Group are used to create the "bounding box" (grey for buildings and blue for props).
These "bounding boxes" restrict you from moving a building so that it would overhang the lot edge.

This is important e.g. because it's the Occupant Size that determines what is under your mouse pointer in the game.
When you query a building or a lot in the game, the information shown is available in the building exemplar, not the lot exemplar.
Thus, the building must be inside the edges of the lot, not to interfere with the query of the building on the neighbouring lot.

When making overhanging buildings and props, it is common practice to reduce the Occupant Size though.
However, if you do this, it must be done before using the building in LotEditor.
Otherwise the "bounding box" seen in LotEditor would not be any smaller.

Something you should never do is increase the Occupant Size of existing buildings on lots.
If the Occupant Size would be larger than the "bounding box" as seen in LotEditor,
you might create a building (the Occupant Size of it) that overhangs the lot edges,
or you would later be able to move the building closer to the lot edge, so that it would be overhanging.

Plopping such a lot in the game would cause this lot to interfere with the neighbouring lot on the side where the building overhangs.
Usually this means you cannot query nor bulldoze the lot in question, and it's said to have suffered from the immortal lot syndrome.

Note also that only overhanging buildings lead to the immortal lot syndrome.
Each lot must have exactly one building exemplar, but can have numerous props...
A prop can be overhanging, as long as its centre point is within the lot.
Thus, if you place a prop in the corner of a lot, only 1/4 of the prop would actually be inside the lot.

[tamorr]

 Ah, ok that is very helpful, thank you very much. It was quite understandable. I did know about the Building being bigger than lot would cause the Immortal syndrome. It was deffinately good to know props do not. That is one thing I was deffinately wondering about.

You mean the Occupant size would have to be done in pim before LE to have the bounding box smaller or can it be done in reader as well then loading LE?

[SimGoober]

The Pim-X or Reader could adjust this property, but it should be done BEFORE editing the lot in the lot editor, as a principle.

One thing I will point out though; if there are two Occupant Group properties, that would generally be sloppy modding.  Someone wasn't paying attention to what they were doing.  I could be a minor oversite, and easily corrected.  However, I personally would be thinking "what ELSE is screwed up here?".

I would suggest using Pim-X to make a new exemplar all together for this model. At the least, have Pim-X "Recalculate" the properties, to be sure they are accurate.

[tamorr]

  About that double Occ Size property. The prop exemplar that had it was a timed prop and had two other props with other times of day attatched. The three prop exmplar are part of a set, but the other two didn't have a duplicate Occ Size, and were that same as each other. In the one that had a duplicate there was one that matched the other two and one that was different.

  So I am assuming deleting the one that didn't match up would be the correction I would need to do, correct?



I don't have Pim-x, just reader. Besides I thought that program hasn't been publically released yet. That and I don't really have much experience with the original Pim. I have more experience with the reader though, that is how I've been looking at most files. Well that and SC4Tool for certain things. I believe it was just an oversight, general mistake by the author. So it is an easy fix for myself at least, cause I didn't see any problems in the LE when I used the prop... and in game it is fine as well so I'd have to deduct and conclude it was just a minor mistake, and will have to correct.

  Thank you so much for helping me....

[RippleJet]

You mean the Occupant size would have to be done in pim before LE to have the bounding box smaller or can it be done in reader as well then loading LE?

The bounding box in LE is created when replacing a building on a lot with another building.
If you later change that Occupant Size in that building exemplar, you won't see any changes in LE.

In the lotconfig exemplar, the building's bounding box is given in that LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData property that starts with 0x00000000
This property contains 12 reps (values), explained below, with example values:

Rep 1	0x00000000		0x0=Building (0x1=Prop, 0x2=Texture, etc.)
Rep 2	0x00000000		Level of detail modifier, normally 0x00
Rep 3	0x00000000		Orientation, 0x0=South, 0x1=West, 0x2=North. 0x3=East
Rep 4	0x00140000		X Location
Rep 5	0x00000000		Y Location
Rep 6	0x00280000		Z Location
Rep 7	0x000E0000		X1 Bounding Box
Rep 8	0x00180000		Y1 Bounding Box
Rep 9	0x001A0000		X2 Boudning Box
Rep 10	0x00380000		Y2 Bounding Box
Rep 11	0x00000000		Flags, always 0x0
Rep 12	0x12345678		Instance ID of the Building Exemplar

Reps 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are all large numbers, giving the coordinates in 1/65536 (1/0x10000) of a metre.
Thus, 0x00010000 is 1 metre and 0x00100000 is 16 metres or one tile.

In the example above the (centre of the) building is placed at X = 1 tile + 4 m = 20 m off the left edge and Z = 2 tiles + 8 m = 40 m off the upper edge. The bounding box starts at (X,Z) = (14, 24) and ends at (X,Z) = (26, 56). Thus, this building should have an Occupant Size of 12 m × 32 m.

If you'd ever change the Occupant Size for a building that has already been placed on a lot, you should change the X1, Y1, X2 and Y2 reps above to reflect the new Occupant Size. This is unfortunately very tedious and prone to errors, since those coordinates usually are not as simple as in the example above (with whole metres).

[SimGoober]

Sorry, I didn't catch the fact that this is a "prop" and not a "building".  Prop exemplars have fewer properties involoved, and generally even if screwed up won't mess up the game too badly. (Prop Pox is an exception, but not likely to happen unless you copy a Maxis prop without giving it a new unique ID).  So you can feel safer "fixing" a prop exemplar than a building one.  I'll bet the creator of that lot made several copies of the same prop, modified the first one and copied the modified properties to the others. Then just forgot to delete that one extra occupant size property.   

If you screw up, the most likely problem is it just won't show up in game anymore.  The odds of a nuclear explosion as a result of bad modding are less than 1 in 1000 so I wouldn't worry about it.

Now back to the kitchen to find some more bananas....

[RippleJet]

Now back to the kitchen to find some more bananas....

Can I have one too?

[tamorr]

  That's one reason I don't mess with buildings a whole lot, just props for the moment, as in LE all I can do is modify existing work.. and if it has a building then I either leave it alone or change it to what I truly am looking for. I have mainly been using the buildings that are props to make things in LE, as I prefer to make ploppables at the moment for waterfront and canals. I'll probably make growables, and that is when I'd probably use a building...

Anyways, Thanks for your help. I understood for the most part, and can definately see how it would be very complicated. Anything to do with the Lot config Exempler is a bit complicated for me, as I am not so great at judging what is what... But at least that explaination puts some light on the subject.

   Yeah it is definately a prop as I was in the middle of making a family, I ended up noticing that one Prop I mentioned in the prior post. I've got rid of the extra Occ Size property that didn't match up with the rest, so no worries, whether it shows up in the game or not doesn't really matter for the moment. Having many projects I am working on at once is making me a bit dizzy, but I can handle what I am taking on for the most part.

   And thanks again all of you for the great info and help.